jsheppard
Globe and Mail Update Published on Wednesday, Jul. 05, 2006 2:00PM EDT Last updated on Tuesday, Apr. 07, 2009 12:13AM EDT
"Sir John A. Macdonald opened the West. He saw Canada from east to west. I see a new Canada — a Canada of the North' — John Diefenbaker, February, 1958.
For 50 years, the dream of developing the North lay dormant after colliding with aboriginal land claims, fluctuating markets and growing environmental concerns.
But now, with $70-a-barrel oil, plans for a $7.5-billion pipeline project to carry natural gas south and the discovery of diamonds at the bottom of a lake 300 kilometres north of Yellowknife, it's beginning to come true, as Roy MacGregor outlines writes in his four-part series on the Northwest Territories. The full series is here:
Part I: 'This is the next Alberta'
Part II: Pipeline debate splits family
Part III: Diamond mining cuts deep into native traditions
Part IV: Mining spoiled the water, now the animals are all awry
Mr. MacGregor was on-line earlier today to discuss his series about what many people are calling "The Next Alberta."
The questions and Mr. MacGregor's answers appear at the bottom of this page.
Mr. MacGregor has been a journalist for more than 30 years and has been writing the Page 2 "This Country" column for The Globe since 2002.
He is the author of nearly 40 books — 20 of them in the internationally successful Screech Owls Mystery Series for children. His books for adults include A Life In the Bush: Lessons From My Father , which won numerous national and international awards; The Home Team , which was nominated for the Governor-General's Award; Escape: In Search of the Natural Soul of Canada , Chief: The Fearless Vision of Billy Diamond and The Weekender . His most recent book, published this month, is The Dog and I: Confessions of a Best Friend .
Mr. MacGregor has won the National Newspaper Award, National Magazine Award, and the ACTRA Award for best television drama. He had three books listed on McClelland & Stewart's "100 Essential Canadian Books" that came out this spring: Canoe Lake , his novel on the life of Tom Thomson, The Screech Owls and Home Game , written with Ken Dryden.
He began his career with Maclean's Magazine and has also worked for The Toronto Star, Ottawa Citizen and The National Post. He spent 14 years on Parliament Hill and then a decade covering the National Hockey League.
Mr. MacGregor was named an officer in the Order of Canada in 2005. He lives in Kanata, Ont., with his family. His two great non-journalism passions are hockey and canoe tripping.
Editor's Note: globeandmail.com editors will read and allow or reject each question/comment. Comments/questions may be edited for length or clarity. We will not publish questions/comments that include personal attacks on participants in these discussions, that make false or unsubstantiated allegations, that purport to quote people or reports where the purported quote or fact cannot be easily verified, or questions/comments that include vulgar language or libellous statements. Preference will be given to readers who submit questions/comments using their full name and home town, rather than a pseudonym.
Jim Sheppard, Executive Editor, globeandmail.com: Good afternoon, Roy, and welcome to globeandmail.com Your four-part series on the Northwest Territories has been a big hit with our readers, reaching the Top 10 site-wide every day since it launched on Saturday. We have a lot of reader questions and comments today, which we will get to in a minute. First, I want to ask you this: You know the North well and you must have had certain expectations when you started your research. What, if anything, surprised you the most when you interviewed people for the series? What were you not expecting?
Roy MacGregor: Good question, Jim, and one that hits hard. I went up there naively thinking I'd find two clear cut sides, a "yes" for the pipeline and a "no" against the pipeline. I also thought that the elders would be firmly aligned on the "no" side.
What I found out quite took me by surprise. There isn't really a "no" side at all — sort of a "maybe"-with-conditions side. There are concerned natives and whites. And as there should be, there are concerned environmentalists and groups. But there is no hard and fast "no" side at all.
Even more fascinating to me is the shift in the elders. During the Berger Inquiry of the late 1970s, they pretty much lined up to say "no." They spoke of burial sites and traplines and honouring the land. Well, they still speak of honouring the land, but they also say: "The old ways are gone forever." If you want to be "on the land" today, you'll need a snowmobile, an ATV, lots of gasoline and other equipment, and the only way that's possible now is for another economy to assist. Many, in fact, are keeping to their "traditional ways" of trapping and hunting as weekend and holiday fare — the way others might look on something like … golf.
It's quite fascinating. I learned so much that, looking back, I can't believe I knew so little.
David Hill: I appreciated Roy MacGregor's article, and his clear observations on the realities of native life. He neither patronizes nor glorifies aboriginal culture. One area that continues to be overlooked when the issue of development is discussed is the impact on the socio-cultural fabric of aboriginal peoples. Most discussions compare the environmental impact versus the economic benefits to aboriginal people. However, there are tremendous impacts on the culture, traditions and family well-being that are rarely discussed, let alone measured. Considering that more than 60% of all mining activity in Canada occurs on traditional native territory — and the figure is growing — it would be of great benefit to aboriginal people if industry and governments took the time to measure the effects of development on indicators such as language, family blood lines, health, traditional activities, crime, violence and abuse, alcohol and drug misuse, and other social/cultural factors. By identifying and assessing the impacts that development will have on these indicators, all parties affected will have greater information against which to make their decisions, BEFORE the development occurs. Can you comment on that?
Roy MacGregor: Thanks for this, David. I couldn't agree more. But those necessary studies just have not been done to the point that would helpful.
On the positive side for the moment, the Liberal commitment of $500 million over the next 10 years has been properly carried on by the Conservatives, and this money is dedicated to such matters as housing and social agencies, etc. It's a start and it's welcome.
One of the best points I thought made up North was by Nellie Cournoyea, head of the Inuvialuit. She points out that there have long been very serious social issues at play here, from poor housing to alcoholism and all its problems, and there has been no real money to address such issues. Some are saying that money will only make matters worse. She says matters are bad but only by having money can they begin to work on such problems. Her point is valid. It's not like there is no one thinking about such matters. Quite the contrary, I found.
Jim Shepherd, Peru: Native traditions? The native population in Yellowknife lives in "Rainbow Valley," named after the horrid colours that they paint their houses. They are basically welfare recipients. A notable attempt was made to contract someone to teach living off-of-the-land to their children. Since no natives could be found that knew this mysterious long-lost art, they contracted to a white instructor. It is not much different here in Peru with the local indigenous types. Can you comment?
Roy MacGregor: There is certainly this opinion about, Jim, but there is also another opinion that argues, as Fred Carmichael of the Aboriginal Pipeline Group does so eloquently, that the only way to break the welfare cycle is to have a controlled development that directly involves First Nations and where First Nations share in the profits. The secret, surely, lies in keeping monies in NWT, something that largely did not happen in the past. Now you have Carmichael and his group taking up a one-third share in the $7.5-billion pipeline project (presuming the holdout Dehcho do come on board) and you also have strict regulations concerning employment by such enterprises as the diamond mines that means good jobs and good training is going to aboriginals. It's not perfect, but it's at least better than it was. As for the native areas around Yellowknife, I found them quite delightful in many instances and took several photographs. Beauty, as they say, is surely in the eye of the beholder.
Nathan Weatherdon, Toronto: Do you think development in the territories will validate Canadian claims to disputed territory/waters further north in the Arctic . . . How much development would have to happen? where? and can you suggest how current international agreements might make that difficult?
Roy MacGregor: You and NWT Premier Joe Handley think alike, Nathan. He says that this development cannot possibly take place with nothing but winter roads (that are melting way too quickly, by the way) and expensive air transport (often rented Russian carriers). He wants to see real roads go in. And, in particular, he is pushing for a finish to the TransCanada Highway that would take it, finally, to Tuktoyaktuk, on the shores of the Arctic Ocean. He thinks this would be highly symbolic and help to validate Canada's claims. The stretch could be done quickly if the funds were there.
Beyond Tuk, however, it's a whole different kettle of fish and ice. You have Denmark claiming islands, you have the U.S. claiming waters and you have, undeniably, the whole thing melting to the point where passage is likely to become both possible for long stretches and economical. One highway won't do it. But nor will one small rock cairn such as the one erected in Alert last summer by then Gov.-Gen. Adrienne Clarkson. Yet every little piece helps, from the road to the cairn to the red-capped Rangers and their pre-war .303s. I believe it will become a massive issue in this century.
Leonard Sanche: All those who think the pipeline is inevitable also think $12/GJ gas is reasonable. The fact is that although gas production is still lower in North America than it was a year ago, the price is down. For two years, many industrial gas consumers in the U.S. and Canada have scratched their way to economic viability have either shut down facilities or switched fuels. Those that need gas as a feedstock openly complain they might as well mothball their facilities and move to a place with access to Russian gas. Even oil sands developers are reducing gas use ... To assume that this economic opportunity will "always exist" or "exist when you want it to" is folly. Right?
Roy MacGregor: You got it, Leonard. People think that Justice Berger shut down the original pipeline. He didn't. He recommended that nothing happen until the various land claims were settled. Others think the National Energy Board stopped it. But the truth is that the companies pulled out on their own, thinking that the economics no longer made the sense they originally believed they did. Same thing could happen here. If, as some are rumouring, the cost of the $7.5-billion pipeline project hits $10 billion and rising, then there surely comes a point where it doesn't make sense. On the other hand, there are a great many who are absolutely convinced that this gas pipeline is all about supplying the Alberta oilsands with the natural gas required for this difficult oil recovery. All sides deny this, the politicians most vociferously, but the fact remains that the pipeline, if completed, will go to the top of Alberta and, from there, find its own markets — with the oilsands a close and ready market.
Earl Anthony: While I sympathize with the difficult decision, given the potential impact of the pipeline to the Dehcho, the simple facts are that if the Dehcho ask for too much and take too much time to decide, the pipeline will not be built. And then there will be no economic benefits for local peoples. The Americans already have the right-of-way secured for their pipeline. If the Americans build their pipeline first, then the Mackenzie Valley pipeline becomes redundant. Don't you agree?
Roy MacGregor: Right now, Earl, the gap is one of years between the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline and the Alaska Pipeline. No one knows for sure, but let's give it 4-5 years. That could close quickly, as some are already quietly saying the MVP cannot be finished by its projected date of late 2011. Costs are also soaring due to labour, steel costs and the general costs of surviving in a booming Western economy.
The Dehcho are playing a tough poker game and not yet blinking. But in chasing after some form of taxation powers, as has been discussed, they are entering an area where the forces against them will be far too vast to defeat. As Premier Handley points out, the creation of yet another level of government is just not on. This is what led the NWT government as well as the federal government (Liberal era) to send "letters of comfort" to Imperial Oil and the other proponents. The Dehcho seem, to me, to now be making their big stand on land-use policy. They want say over the land. They disagree with the federal government's interpretation of their 1921 Treaty and they do not want to see "extinguishment" the main feature of a modern treaty. They want real control and a real say over their lands. They may get something here. After all, even the modern treaty process has evolved as time marches on. Some control over subsurface rights is a huge issue these days, whereas at the outset of the modern claims process it was all about money and some direct ownership of land. Grand Chief Herb Norwegian was returned unanimously this past weekend, so he still speaks for the Dehcho, even though some others, including his uncle Leo, a revered Dehcho elder, have come out in favour of moving ahead with the pipeline. My own hunch is that the Dehcho will join in as full partners, and that somewhere along the way the Grand Chief will get something out of his tough stand.
D. MacDonald: I have spent the past 10 years working all across the North and I know for a fact the native peoples in the Eastern Arctic would jump at the chance of having the economic opportunities offered to the First Nations people of the Mackenzie Valley.
Forget the Alaskan pipeline! There are already plans developed to build supertankers capable of carrying compressed gas from the west coast of Russia directly to California. Economically, it's now cheaper than a pipeline due to an ongoing shortage of skilled labor and none of the headache dealing with dozens of feuding groups who take years trying to figure out if they want the North developed or not.
From my discussions with a lot of people in the Sahtu, and Gwich'in areas, they don't want a pipeline, yet they don't want the prosperity that is currently occurring as a result of oil and exploration to go away either. A lot of elders (and younger adults) would be quite happy if the oil companies just kept punching holes in the ground without the next step in development. It's hard to advance a society whose entire culture is predicated on looking backwards and yearning for the good ol' days. Can you comment?
Roy MacGregor: I had expected more of this, but didn't find it. The refrain I heard was that the old days are gone, the old days are to be treasured, but it's time to move on. It may, of course, be the people I spoke to, as I couldn't possibly talk to all 45,000 residents. Your suggestion that an expensive pipeline might be trumped by costs or less-expensive alternatives is dead on and I talked about this in a previous question.
Your notes about the eastern Arctic are particularly of interest. I spent time traveling through Nunavut last year and the contrast between the two areas is, frankly, stark. There may be development opportunities in the future to compare, but at the moment there are none. It is a growing concern.
As for the matter of yearning for the good old days, if I may be a bit off here, it has been a financial miracle for the owners of the Toronto Maple Leafs, hasn't it? Alas, the same doesn't hold true for the North. The old days should be treasured. But they should be seen for what they are: the good old days.
A.E. Hawthorne, B.C.: A decades-old documentary that used to be shown to British Columbia high school students illustrated an American ambition to harness the MacKenzie and send it south, as far as California. When this notion was canned, many also regretted the already built Nelson project, in which it was said that Canada gave too much away to the U.S. Let's hope the pipeline is a prudent deal that will treat everyone fairly.
Roy MacGregor: Hope is, fortunately, not all we have . . . [I hope]. The Berger Inquiry begat an environmental process that should safeguard against certain problems. The territorial government and even the various industries have instituted regulations that mean jobs are protected for northerners. But the tradition, from furs to gold, has been clearly that those from the south come and take and leave very little behind but headaches. That must change. I, for one, think the key to the pipeline project going ahead, if indeed it is to go ahead, is that the First Nations groups will become one-third partners in the enterprise. This is the right thing to do, at the very least.
G. Jones: This is probably the first significant opportunity these peoples have been afforded since their subjugation by Europeans. With this type of wealth finally available locally, they have the first and last real chance to fully transition from hunter-gatherer societies to something that is fulfilling as well as sustainable into the distant future. At the same time, it frees up southern taxpayers from paying the incredible costs associated with maintaining these peoples in an unnatural stasis — a condition that is literally killing them, as well as dissipating their collective identity. This is their last best chance. I just hope we all don't blow it.
Roy MacGregor: : So do I. Your thinking is exactly the same as Premier Joe Handley, who speaks for government, and Gwich'in leader Fred Carmichael, who speaks for those First Nations who would become partners in the project. Others also say the same. The key is to move toward a better balance. Carmichael wants an end to welfare and wants to create a self-sustaining society. Handley goes so far as to dream of NWT becoming a "have" contributor to equalization. And this, of course, brings up a whole new set of issues. How much of the tax and royalties will stay there? So far, none. The federal government has the rights and collects everything, which suggests to me that Ottawa would now be most reluctant to grant NWT provincial status and find out that Handley has become the Northern Danny Williams. Handley's point, however, is that the goods are coming from here, so something should stay here. He has an argument and intends to make it.
Jason Schmidt, Saskatoon, Sask.: What are the employment prospects up North for southern whites who are skilled tradesmen?
Roy MacGregor: I'd say excellent, Jason. It seemed every store in Yellowknife had a "help wanted" sign out. There's a building boom on where they can't find enough labourers, and the mines are constantly looking for skilled workers. And the pipeline work hasn't even started. There's also the fact that Yellowknife is a fantastic place to be and I will add, just incidentally, that it has a vibrant restaurant and bar scene.
Janet Kennedy, Moncton, N.B.: I'm not sure you touched on this in your series. But I'd be curious to know what's the male-female ratio in the North?
Roy MacGregor: I'd like to know, too, Janet. My empirical evidence — gathered from decades of staring at people — is that there are many, many, many males for not so many females.
Matt Zwick, Edmonton: Mr. MacGregor, I have always enjoyed reading your articles in The Globe and Mail. I am curious what you think the next step in the North will be. Do you think that the Conservatives will be able to strike the correct balance between the economy and the environment?
Roy MacGregor: I think they have to, Matt. Balance is what it should all be about and "balance" is a word everyone is using up there these days. Someone suggested to me that the pipeline issue of 2006 is profoundly different from the pipeline issue of 1977, when Berger was poking around. Since then — and in part because of then — there have been numerous, powerful environmental forces come into play. At the hearings, for example, they would then allow questions from the likes of the Boreal Initiative and the Sierra Club and the World Wildlife Fund, and they were good and pointed questions. There is now a "watchdog" factor that did not exist before. We should applaud that.
Jim Sheppard, Executive Editor, globeandmail.com: Roy, thanks again for your detailed and perceptive answers. I'm sure our readers really appreciate them. Any last thoughts?
Roy MacGregor: Just one, Jim. I began this by going back to John Diefenbaker's Northern Vision speech of 1958, when he called for a "new Canada of the North" and hoped to do for the North what Sir John A. had done for the Prairies. I am struck by how much interest there was in this series, something that I don't think would have happened before global warming and Arctic sovereignty, etc. The pipeline is just a way of getting at these other, very large issues, and I now believe Canadians are fully engaged. It should be no other way.
Many thanks for the opportunity. I was impressed with the questions and love the immediacy.
Jim Sheppard, Executive Editor, globeandmail.com: To our readers, we're sorry as usual that we could not get to all your questions in the time alloted. We hope you enjoyed the conversation.
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