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Former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva waves to the crowd from his home in Sao Bernardo do Campo, Brazil, March 5, 2016. (PAULO WHITAKER/REUTERS)
Former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva waves to the crowd from his home in Sao Bernardo do Campo, Brazil, March 5, 2016. (PAULO WHITAKER/REUTERS)

South America

Transcript of phone calls between former Brazilian President Lula and various political supporters Add to ...

A transcript of some of the audio recordings of phone calls between former Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and various political supporters, including President Dilma Rousseff.

Warning: Some readers may find some content offensive.

Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, speaking to President Dilma Rousseff March 4, immediately following his detention by police for questioning.

Lula: (...) The questions, if the bastards had sent me a subpoena, I would have gone [to give] a deposition, as I did three times in Brasília. I think [Judge Sergio] Moro wanted to make a spectacle, before the decision of that thing that is there for the Supreme Court to decide, we don’t know if it’s in favour or not, but he needed this pyrotechnical spectacle. The questions were the same ones I already answered to the prosecutors and to two Federal Police commissioners. From my sons, they took the same documents they had taken in the invasion of my son’s home. Oh, the only place where there was a little... They went to Paulo Okamoto’s [chair of Lula’s foundation] house, they went to [aide] Clara Ant’s house, you know? Clara was sleeping by herself when five men went in, she thought it was a present from God, but it was the Federal Police, you know? So... (laughs)

Dilma: (laughs) She thought it was a present from God? (laughs)

Lula: That’s it, Dilma, I think it was a pyrotechnical spectacle. Their thesis is that everything that’s happening is [the product] of a gang that was put together in 2003 and that, therefore, you know, it endures to this day, you know? And inside the Palace [the government headquarters], it’s their thesis, their thesis. So they don’t need an explanation, like the “theory of fact domain” [used in the Mensalão case to convict political leaders with little documentary evidence] didn’t need explanation, the crime was given, now it’s the following: the press says they [those investigated by Lava Jato] are criminals and they put it into practice. I’m telling PT here, Dilma, that there is no truce, there is no believing in the legal fight, we have to take our supporters and go to the streets. I honestly, I wanted to retire. I’m moving up my campaign for 2018, I’m going to set up trips throughout this country starting next week, you know? I want to see what’s going to happen. Unfortunately, it’s going to be that, dear. I’m not sitting still at home.

Dilma: Don’t you find it strange, sir, that story on Thursday [referring to leak of to a magazine of Senator Delcídio de Amaral’s deposition in which he implicated Ms. Rousseff to a magazine]? Isto É [the magazine in question] anticipating...

Lula: I think that leak is strange... The Delcídio leak, Delcídio’s statement, Isto É anticipating it, that’s what I think, Dilma.

Dilma: And right on the next day, Friday, you’re called [and taken by the police for questioning].

Lula: It’s a pyrotechnical spectacle without precedent, dear. They are convinced that with the press heading the investigation process they can found the republic again.

Dilma: That’s it!!

...

Lula: We have a totally intimidated Supreme Court, we have a totally intimidated Supreme Court of Justice [a second-tier supreme court], totally intimidated parliament, only recently PT and PCB [Communist Party] woke up and started fighting. We have a lower house speaker who is fucked, a president of the senate who is fucked, I don’t know how many parliament members threatened, everyone waiting for a miracle to happen, for everyone to be saved. I’m, honestly, scared of the Republic of Curitiba [the city where Judge Moro is based]. Because coming from a judge, [anything] can happen in this country.

Dilma: So everything is just like it always was, right?

Lula: It was, the same thing... Today they did a collective thing. They went to Paulo Okamoto’s home in Atibaia, I didn’t even talk to Paulo yet, they went to Clara’s home. I’m thinking of getting the whole collection [his presidential collection, which is under investigation due to storage arrangements], I’m going to make the decision, to take it, throw it in front of the public prosecutor’s office. They can shove it in their asses and take care of it.

Dilma: Which collection?

Lula: Dilma, it’s a bunch of containers with junk I got when I was president.

Dilma: Oh, give it to them! I’m going to do the same thing with mine, OK?

Lula: So it’s the following, hey, hey, at some point I would like to talk personally because I think we need to change something in this country.

Dilma: Can you? When are you going?

Lula: Yesterday, I said the following, the only person... How can a Federal Police commissioner do a statement against the change of ministers [of Justice]?

Dilma: I’ve never seen anything like that, I’ve never seen anything like that either!

[Ms. Rousseff passes the phone to Jacques Wagner, chief of staff]

Lula: Everything all right, dear?

Wagner: Did you handle that annoyance?

Lula: There was no torture, you guys fucking suffered more than me!

Wagner: No, everyone suffers...

Lula: It was the same question they always have, Wagner, the same thing.

Wagner: It was only a scene.

Lula: I think they wanted to anticipate our request which is in the Supreme Court [Lula’s lawyer had requested that the federal prosecutor’s investigations against him be halted], with [Supreme Court Justice] Rosa Weber.

Wagner: I see.

Lula: You know, they are trying to move it forward, because they were scared that Rosa was going to agree, they are trying to anticipate it all. Because she could take it out of Lava Jato. Moro did a spectacle to compromise the Supreme Court.

Wagner: I don’t think that’s all that is, no, they want to create a climate, now they only talk about resignation, a climate for the 13th [planned day of anti-government protests]. I said it yesterday, when the Isto É article came out, I said: “Tomorrow, they are going to do something to screw Lula”.

Lula: Uh-huh.

Wagner: And on Tuesday that son of a bitch from the Brazilian Bar Association is going to do it here, saying what the Bar’s council thinks in this case... It’s a joke, because Delcídio, fuck! I never thought he was such a bastard! He talks about [a Petrobras refinery in] Pasadena, for example, this fucking thing was already shelved by the Prosecutor General’s Office, he says you ordered that, ordered that... Fuck, is there proof? Go fuck yourself, I didn’t know he was such an asshole! But, let’s go...

Lula: But you see, dear, she [allegedly Rosa Weber] is talking about this meeting. Hey Wagner, I wanted you to see it now, talk to her, since she is there, talk about the business of Rosa Weber, that it’s in her hands for her to decide. If men don’t have the balls, maybe a brave woman can do what men can’t.

Wagner: All right! It’s settled, thanks, dear, a hug to you. A hug for Marisa and the boys...

Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Rio de Janeiro Mayor Eduardo Paes, March 7, three days after Mr. da Silva was taken in for questioning

Lula: Hello!

Paes: My friend!

Lula: Dear mayor, how are you?

Paes: You don’t need solidarity, but I’m calling you to send you a hug. To say that I’m with you in this absurd case there, about what they did to you on Friday [when Mr. da Silva was questioned]. It’s a scandal. It’s shameful.

Lula: Thank you, dear.

Paes: You have to have a thick skin. Your statement was exceptional. There needs to be a stop to this joke in Brazil. It’s too much. It surpassed all limits, President.

Lula: All limits! That’s true. It surpassed all the limits.

Paes: And this Delcídio business. I’m saying this also because of my case here, that I saw in his alleged deposition under a plea deal. This business of the agreement in the inquiry in Congress, right?

Lula: Delcídio was shameful!

Paes: He’s writing memoirs... It’s a deposition that becomes a memoir, you know?

Lula: That’s it.

[...]

Lula: They are a bunch of sons of bitches, Eduardo. Let me tell you.

Paes: It’s fucked.

Lula: Look, let me tell you something. These kids in the Federal Police and these kids in the Prosecutors Office, they feel like emissaries for God.

Paes: Yes, but they are all religious. These guys in the Public Prosecutors Office are all religious, right?

Lula: It’s absurd. One time we will talk a little because I think I’m the chance this country has to fight them, to try to put them in their place. Which means we created serious institutions, but there needs to be a limit, there need to be rules.

Paes: Yes. No. It surpassed all limits. We are scared of talking to people now.

Lula: Fuck, of course!

Paes: I’m surrounded with building sites here. From Odebrecht, OAS and all these constructions companies [all implicated in Lava Jato]. I’m scared. The guy asks to meet me, and I’m scared of meeting him.

Lula: Of course. Because now all building works... These guys [from the construction companies] have 500 building work sites in this country. All of them are criminalized. Oh, go fuck yourself, damn it.

Paes: It’s fucked. No. You see, even Delcídio. The man was president of the Commission of Economic Affairs, and I went to talk to him one day, and he went there to do his business with Cerveró [a former director of Petrobras who is involved in the Lava Jato scandal], with Cerveró’s son [Delcídio was recorded offering to give money to Cerveró if he would agree not to sign a plea deal], after talking to me. In a few moments, I’m in the middle of that story [in the recording, Delcídio talks about how Paes was cutting a deal with another politician]. A crazy business.

Lula: That’s it, dear.

Paes: I’m going to lock myself in the house, fuck. I’m not talking to anyone anymore.

Lula: That’s it, dear.

Paes: But, look, my friend, speaking seriously, I’m by your side.

Lula: Thank you.

Paes: You can count on me here. You know of my gratitude, of my admiration.

Lula: Thank you, dear.

Paes: Here you have a solider, sir. I’m managing my crisis too. Holding [inaudible]. I always have to tell you one thing, sir: my life started with Lula and [Sérgio] Cabral [former governor of Rio Janeiro State] and ended with [Luiz Fernando] Pezão [current governor of Rio] and Dilma. Fuck me!

Lula: (laughs)

Paes: You have no idea how I’m suffering, sir. It’s fucked!

Lula: But with all the trouble, dear, you’re still blessed by God with these Olympics, you see, because others...

Paes: It’s true! True.

Lula: The other mayors I talk to are fucked...

Paes: True. True. But, president, if there are Olympics with your excellency and Sergio Cabral it’s one thing. Holding on with Dilma’s and Pezão’s good humour, you know...

Lula: It’s not easy, dear.

Paes: You know that character that had...

Lula: But your good humour and your competence overcome that, dear.

Paes: Fuck. But we are together, President.

Lula: All right. Thank you, dear.

Paes: [inaudible] My love there, we are together. My solidarity, let’s go forward in this story. Now, next time you can stop with this poor man’s life, with this poor man’s soul you have, buying those shitty boats [reference to the cheap rowboats that were found at a farm police allege secretly belonged to Mr. da Silva], that shitty farm house, fuck me!

Lula: (laughs)

Paes: You, sir, have a poor man’s soul. Everyone is talking about it here, and I say this: Imagine here in Rio this farm house of his, it’s not in Petrópolis, it’s not in Itaipava [cities where rich people have country houses]. It’s like it’s Maricá [a low-income city]. It’s a fucking shitty place!

Lula: (laughs)

Paes: This little boat of his, it’s São Pedro da Aldeia, Araruama [other cities that are known as destinations for low-income Brazilians]. It’s not Búzios, Angra [cities where the rich go for their holidays], fuck!

Lula: (laughs) Fuck me!

Paes: It’s tacky. You, sir, never lost that poor man’s soul. It’s the biggest fucking disgrace I can see in this whole process. (laughs)

Lula: That’s it. That’s it. But I already knew that. OK, dear. Thank you, Eduardo.

Paes: You can call me for anything, president. A big hug.

Lula: Thank you, dear.

Paes: Great. Bye, bye.

Conversation between Lula and Vagner Freitas, president of CUT, one of Brazil’s biggest unions – March 9, five days after Lula was questioned

Lula: Hello.

Vagner: Hi, dear. How are you

Lula: Dear Vagner, how are you?

Vagner: Good. Are you holding strong there?

Lula: Strong, fighting like a lion so as not to die as [a] kitten.

Vagner: No, no... A goat like you doesn’t die, and if they die it won’t be like a kitten. Jararacas [poisonous snakes] don’t die.

Another call to Vagner, later on the same day.

Lula: You know? I’m very comfortable, my dear. I’m very comfortable... And the conversation I had with her [allegedly Ms. Rousseff] was very, very, very, very, very important for my conscience, for my comrades... I want you to know that each word I said to her, about her allies... Who her allies are.

Vagner: Ah, that’s nice...

Lula: She is making policy for the sake of the market, which is her enemy. No one from the market is going to vote for her. The market she is thinking of pleasing doesn’t want the pension reform... They want the end of pensions.

Vagner: Yes...

Lula: You know? She knows who is on her fucking side.

Lula talks to Paulo Vannuchi, a former minister in his government, on Feb 27, a week before he was brought in for questioning.

Lula: What about that son of a bitch prosecutor [Douglas Kirchner, who is investigating Mr. da Silva for international influence peddling in favour of Petrobras] who before giving the notice of the subpoena, on Thursday, to the lawyer, gave it to [national broadcaster] GloboNews. He is such a son of a bitch!

Paulo: Political activist. Coxinha [slang for an upper-middle-class conservative].

Lula: The problem is the following, Paulinho: we have to take this fight on, I know it’s difficult, you know? Sometimes I think that even Aragão [the new minister of justice] should have the role of a man in that fucking thing, because Aragão seems to be our friend, seems to be, seems to be, but he is always saying “look...”

Paulo: Yes, people are very...

Lula: We are going to take this [prosecutor] from Rondônia, and put [Workers’ Party Congress members] Fátima Bezerra and Maria do Rosário on his case...

Paulo: That’s it!

Lula: You know why, I even made fun of Clara Ant [his assistant] because she is looking for ways to do it, to create a women’s movement against this son of a bitch! He beat his wife, he took his wife to a religious cult, kept her from eating, whipped her, you know? Where are the women with really hard clits in our party? [extremely vulgar slang for a tough woman].

Paulo: (laughs) That’s it, master!

Lula talks with Lindbergh Farias, senator with the Workers’ Party, March 2

Lula: Look, I’m going to tell you some history. If Andrade Gutierrez [Lava Jato-named construction company negotiating a plea deal that could be extremely damaging for the government], in the depositions, in Andrade Gutierrez’s plea deal... I’m talking in this phone because I want to check if the Federal Police are recording... (laughs) I want to see if it’s tapped. If the Federal Police and the Public Prosecutors Office, in Andrade Gutierrez’s plea deal, if it doesn’t show PSDB [the Brazilian Social Democratic Party, the main opposition] or Aécio [Neves, its leader], any Brazilian can see that the deposition is a farce, a lie...

Lindbergh: Let me tell you about Aécio! You know that story about Cemig [state company in Minas, where Mr. Neves was governor] with Andrade Gutierrez is Aécio’s biggest scandal. The relationship between Aécio and Cemig is umbilical.

Lula: I know!

Lindbergh: So.

Lula: If Andrade Gutierrez doesn’t accuse PSDB in their deposition, it’s because it’s a farce.

Lindbergh: In the day that deposition comes out, I’m going to make this point! If it doesn’t come out, I’ll be on all over it.

Translated by Manuela Andreoni and Stephanie Nolen

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