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Elton John says religion promotes homophobia

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 6:45 PM EDT 12/11/06

Religious leaders have also failed to do anything about tensions and conflicts around the world, singer says ...Read the full article

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  1. Larry Cousins from Rockwood, ON, Canada writes: You've got that right, Elton! Religion is the problem, not the answer! I read a good deal of military history ('God is on our side') - it is amazing and disheartening to see that so many wars are religion-based. I firmly believe that you can be good, without God. - any god.
  2. Barry Turner from Ottawa, Canada writes: Can it be that Elton John is promoting hatred of religion and therefore of religious faithful.
  3. Doris Wrench Eisler from St. Albert, Canada writes: What Elton John says is indisputable. There are, for instance, 1.3 billion Christians in the world, more than 1/6 the total. Were Christians truly imitators of Christ and refused to fight - at least outside the existence of a direct threat- war would be impossible. Organized religion, in most case, is an instrument of the state, depends on the state for its existence and helps maintain the status quo, or bias in favor of the rich and powerful .Many Christian churches relegate homosexuals to the status of freak by fighting them on the issue of marriage; 'unions, O.K., but any sick, abusive heterosexual relationship is better than the best of yours', is the message,
    and they will try to prove this by 'scripture' or the most convoluted non-sequiturs the human imagination is capable of coming up with. I can understand the human need for religion in the best sense, a loving, inclusive celebratioin of all that is beautiful and positive along with social conscience about the things that actually matter - universal health care,
    education and equality - but much of organized religion should have remained in the Dark Ages from whence it emerged.

  4. paul childs from Edmonton, writes: Pretty bold talk for a guy who dresses with all the panache and flair of the Pope on occasion. I'll start taking for Elton's insights on religion and politics seriously when I start listening to the Vatican, the Archbishop of Canterbury, a local Rabbi or Imam for insight on music.
  5. Cymro yn byw yma Canada from Canada writes: Barry Turner from Ottawa, Canada writes: Can it be that Elton John is promoting hatred of religion and therefore of religious faithful. MY COMMENT:Barry, to recognize that religion has a negative as well as positive side is not hatred. But I can understand why some religious people may think that is spreading hate. But only the dumb ones. I know little of other religions but thoughtful, committed Christians would certainly agree with John.
  6. george jordan from Beach Point, Canada writes: For the first time the Democrats and Republicans are coming together in a bipartisan way to solve the Iraq war. I'm referring to the newly formed committee with James Baker and Lee Hamilton as well as others. This may be the beginning of the end for the conflict in Iraq, and the winner will be bipartisanship.
  7. george jordan from Beach Point, Canada writes: In regards to Elton John's statement about religion; I believe in a strange way he is correct. Religious people tend to be warlike and lack social graces.
  8. Scot Affleck from Canada writes: Maybe Elton with all his money can buy a lesser church and then burn it down. Ridding us of them in that manner. Then all his rich and enlightened friends can do the same. If you can't wish them out of existence maybe you can buy them and thus be rid of them and their centuries old doctrines. Somehow I think not. Religions were here before Elton was and it is my guess that they will be here after he has gone to his reward. Maybe he can focus on Israel and certain Jews for not accepting the gay lifestyle in their country in the form of Gay Pride parades. They are so unenlightened and not very progressive and accepting. Go for it, Elton. Your mission is to change their closed minds. Good luck, pal.
  9. PC mg from Calgary, Canada writes:
    I don't know of any Christian regimes that have killed 40 million people like our atheist friends. This is another chance for me to put up my favorite communist quotes.

    100 million dead brought to you by the ideology that believes religion should be outlawed:

    Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas?
    -Joseph Stalin

    Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.
    -Mao Zedong

    One death is a tragedy; a million is a statistic.
    -Joseph Stalin

    To read too many books is harmful.
    -Mao Zedong

    This is Year Zero.
    -Pol Pot

    Since he is of no use anymore, there is no gain if he lives and no
    loss if he dies.
    -Pol Pot
  10. Barry Turner from Ottawa, Canada writes: So, Cymro, if one opposes gay marriage as a legal and social institution because one considers that it corrodes the societal glue that holds human civilization together and keeps it fertile and growing, or because one believes, lacking scientific evidence to the contrary, that the homosexual lifestyle results from a personality disorder, that is homophobic hatred, but if Elton John says that all religions preach hatred against homosexuals and are pro-war, it's merely an intelligent observation that religions have a negative side. OK, I get it now. I'll try not be so dumb in future, or at least try not to express in a public forum a negative opinion about homosexuality. Don't want to be seen standing with the dumb religious believers.
  11. dallas mcquarrie from Regina, Canada writes: Elton John's comment's are ignorant in the sense that, like all sweeping sterotypes, they are simply not supported by historical fact. If Mr. John likes dealing in such broad and ignorant generalizations, then I have one for him: rock and similar music just promotes drug use and a dissolute lifestyle and so we ought to ban them! Perhaps it is best that Mr. John stick to a subject he knows something about - music - and leave statemanship to others better qualified to take up the task.
  12. FLUVIAL SEDIMENT from Port Alberni, BC, Canada writes: I don't agree that religions promote hatred. What often happens, though, is that hate-filled or power-hungry people use religion as an excuse to justify violence and abuse towards those who are different from them. I've heard so many newly converted people say words that sound a lot like 'I used to live a bad life, robbing and killing people good Christian people but now I've found Christ I live a good life so you have to find Christ and life a good life through Christ otherwise Christ says I can rob and kill non-Christian people because non-Christian people are bad.' But it's not just religion that gets abused in this way; politics is a convenient excuse for others - witness the abuses committed by communists.
  13. Pieter D from Montreal, Canada writes: When I need advice on how to write a catchy pop song or where to buy really nice shoes, I'll call you Elton.
  14. Mike Z from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Homophobia is defined as an unreasoning disposition against homosexuality and homosexuals. Although it is a common refrain, it is nonetheless a straw-man argument to accuse religion of promoting homophobia. Religions that disapprove of homosexuality do so out of a sincere belief that it is immoral and corrosive to society. This hardly qualifies as homophobia, any more than I can accuse Jack Layton of promoting “conservaphobia” simply because he disagrees with conservative philosophy.
    On Sir Elton John’s accusation of religion causing strife and bloodshed – post #9 raises the principle issue against his argument, which is that violence, bloodshed, and strife are part of human nature. These realities would exist regardless of the excuse/rationalization given them, as can be illustrated so clearly in Atheist states. To blame religion for these failings of human nature is akin to blaming iron for war, since iron was there for much of humanity’s wars. Hopefully you can see that this argument is without merit.
    Religion will always be with us, because religion is humanity’s attempt to put form to the innate knowledge that there is more to life than what we can see, touch, and feel. The vast majority of humanity has religious beliefs, including Canadians (a recent study said 80% of Canadians believe in God). Sir Elton John is of course entitled to his beliefs, but his statement holds just as much merit as the religious person’s who opposes same sex marriage.
  15. John Longshot from Canada writes: This is a hate speech....Elton John ought to take a long vacation in a secluded part of the world!
  16. B Johnson from Canada writes: One can believe in God without benefit of organized religion. Throughout history more people have died brutally over religious furvor than over gold or money. Even the son of God was crucified for his beliefs and activism.
  17. John McCaffery from Warragul, Australia writes: It really does not matter what we think - it matters what is the truth. Is the Bible the inspired Word of God? Is there a God? If one believes in an Almighty God and the Scriptures are His inspired Word; then does it matter what Elton John thinks? To those of faith Elton is simply an example of egotistical man in conflict with God and refusing to submit - history is littered with men such as this. If the majority of Canadians decide they do not want to honour God, then Canadians should be honest and ratify the Charter of Right and Freedoms and remove the God honouring statement that frames the charter.
  18. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: All modern pop music promotes anti-Christian views.

    We didn't see that bit of generalized slander in the paper did we? Why is Elton John's hateful broad stereotypical quote a news story?
  19. Eli Newman from Toronto, writes: HA #9, your quotes by Stalin on 'why would we let them have ideas,' well that is in the same vein as religion...no room for creative independent thought. Why don't you read Portrait of the artist by a young man (I think that's the title), by James Joyce. Religion simply restricts indepedent thought. Religion can be a useful anti-anxiety and social facilitator for some - so its ultimate meaning may be moot - but there has been plenty of pain and hatred that religion has caused. Even the most basic premises are hypocritical: why would different religions REJECT other religions if their notion of God is all-loving...wouldn't God love those people too? The answer for many is no, if you don't believe in Jesus (or whoever), then your not going to Heaven. Religion often ignores the truth of science, and whlie its intentions of positivity may be in the right place, its practices are thousands of years out of date for the world today.
  20. Erin Ballantyne from Canada writes: Isn't it really true that Elton John is promoting hatred of Christians and the Body of Christ (the Church). He should get a book called, What If Jesus Had Never Been Born? by D. James Kennedy. The world would most surely have been a much sorrier place. We would likely not have mass education, hospitals, charitable organizations, women's rights--just to name a few accomplishments of the many Christians who promoted these movements. Christians were behind the abolition of slavery in the U.S. The world of the Roman Empire that Christ was born into was a terrible place--I hardly think that Elton John would want to change places with a citizen of that world. But he's certainly entitled to his own opinion--no matter how ignorant.
  21. Zonia Keywan from Montreal, Canada writes: Elton John wants to ban religion? That's been done already. In the Soviet Union. We know what a 'wonderful' society that was. The Nazis hated religion too.
  22. Henry Allen from Toronto, Canada writes: I hope #9 is not suggesting that all atheists are antisocial sadists. Such a position is as false as suggesting that some believers have not proven to be antisocial sadists. History has clearly shown both believers and atheists have committed atrocities to further their ambitions. Whether or not someone believes in a deity or belongs to a religion is not a prerequisite for morality or respect for humanity.
  23. Mark H from Columbus, IN, United States writes: 'Religious people tend to be warlike and lack social graces. ' Good blanket statement. Hope you researched that one.

    What I think is funny is the audacity of a gay person to expect a billion people to change their religion around, all so the gay person can feel better about himself. Who's being unreasonable there?
  24. James Cyr from Balmertown, writes: Elton John would ban organized religion? So much for political freedom, which is what Remembrance Day is all about! Maybe Elton should stick to his songs and leave philosophizing to more intelligent people.
  25. Cat Stephens from Canada writes: I dont like religions telling me what to think and do, I dont like homosexuals like elton john telling me what to think and do either.
  26. sanjeev parmar from victoria, Canada writes: This is nuts. Religon is the central facet of many peoples lives the world over, and has been since the dawn of man. Lets all abandon religon because certain interpretations of certain sects are not tolerant of a small subset of people in a private setting?
  27. martina white from Canada writes: god is for suckers!
  28. Randy McClure from Canada writes: The so-called 'athiest states,' it could be argued, promoted particular political 'religions'. The problem was irrational political dogma. The problem with the pope, gerry falwell, james dobson, osama bin laden, benjamin netenyahu and others of their ilk is that they believe in irrational religious dogma. They all make claims to universal truth that are mutually incompatible. This is a recipe for the slaughter we've seen over the last 2500 years. Read, the bible, the torah, the koran -- they're filled with page after page of genocidal lunacy. Religion is not needed to have successful, moral societies. In fact if you look at data from Pew research, the Gallop folks and others on levels of 'belief in god' (note this is distinct from adherence to a particular religious dogma) and compare it to measures such as the UN human development index, the GINI index (which measures disparity in income) and others, the countries with the FEWEST believers have the best social and economic outcomes. Countries like Sweden, the Netherlands, Norway, etc. This doesn't suggest a causal relationship, but it certainly shoots down the idea that you need religion to be 'good'. In fact, the states with the highest numbers of religious fundamentalists in the U.S. have the highest rates of teen pregnancy, abortion and divorce. Look at the data. Religion doesn't seem to be working. And when's the last time you heard of a bunch of fanatical athiests staging riots because a newspaper published cartoons that were disrespectful to carl sagan? Relgionists need to be honest with themselves. They need to use their minds. They need to study the data and put aside their irrational, ignorant prejudices toward homosexuals. Otherwise they have no reason to be taken seriously by thoughtful educated persons.
  29. Bob Rollheiser from Canada writes: Nice to see that alternate life styles and various religions can find common ground in mutual condemnation in the name of freedom and religion.
  30. J S from Canada writes: #27 almost got it right. Religion is for suckers. You can quote me on that.
  31. Trevor Russell from Canada writes: And this guy thinks that he is any different? What a hypocrite! All this time I thought Elton had some sense, was I wrong. I'm also amazed at the self righteous intolerence on this board. Let me see, it's ok to belittle, demean, and denigrate others if they see things differently, and we can even go one step further and start destroying their tranditions and telling them how to think. Wow, what an enlightened society. Shall we all start practicing our goose stepping. Oh, right, that'll never happen here, we're so much smarter now! Minority rights and intolerence, the next apartied!
  32. K M from GTA, Canada writes: He's right. Religeon = wars, hate, intolerance
  33. Norm Neil from in the Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: post #17 ( John McCaffery from Warragul, Australia) writes: 'It really does not matter what we think - it matters what is the truth....'.

    Very true. But, I ask verily unto thee: 'what is truth'? Therein lies the dilemma.

    '...Is the Bible the inspired Word of God?'

    Maybe.

    '...Is there a God?...'

    Maybe.

    '...If one believes in an Almighty God and the Scriptures are His inspired Word; then does it matter what Elton John thinks?...'

    Maybe.

    '...If the majority of Canadians decide they do not want to honour God, then Canadians should be honest and ratify the Charter of Right and Freedoms and remove the God honouring statement that frames the charter. ...'.

    On one level this is true, but, unfortunately, the devil is in the details... ;)

    '... To those of faith Elton is simply an example of egotistical man in conflict with God and refusing to submit - history is littered with men such as this....'.

    Yes, men such as Galileo, Copernicus, Voltaire...

  34. scott thomas from Canada writes: Actually, #21, the Vatican cooperated with the Nazis with enthusiasm. I would also like to point out to those that think that because communists were bad, and that because communists banned religion, therefore the conclusion that religion is good, is not a very clearly thought out line of logic. And at the risk of adding fuel to the fire, not only is religion homophobic, it is also sexist. I can't imagine why a woman would defend it.
  35. G MP from Toronto, Canada writes: Elton John is either the worlds' biggest hypocrite or he is blind. He and all his 'buddies' engage in behaviour that leads to a disease that is killing more people per year than any war ever could (AIDS). Worse, it is happening right in front of him, and he goes on some rant about religion. This guy is hilarious.
  36. gustav e from Canada writes: 'Cat Stephens from Canada writes: I dont like religions telling me what to think and do, I dont like homosexuals like elton john telling me what to think and do either.' QED. Thanks, Cat. You're like an NRA member saying, 'Guns don't kill - morons like me do.' Religion is to scare kids and comfort the old and sick. In between, it does a good job of making the rest of us hate religion.
  37. Jay Cee from calgary, Canada writes:
    Dear #9 PC mg,

    Please load google in your browser and search for the christian crusades. The numbers of deaths are startling, especially since 500 years ago the earth's population was quite low compared to this century.

    Religion is a thing of the past. Sure, there will always be people who will try to hang on to it - they are not adapting and will be flushed out of the gene pool as science has predicted.

    In an over populated world with scarce resources you do see that homosexuality is the next step in evolution. This is why you see so much hate towards those gays - they are our genetic superiors. Mock them now but wait until they hold all the power and you are kept around just to be breeders for them.
  38. Brent Raby from Toronto, writes: #9 Religious differences have caused more traumatic deaths in this veil of tears than syphilis. Religion has made a graveyard of the globe. Look it up.
    You can believe all you want in miracles and prophecy.
    Just don't try to govern by them.
  39. F E from Canada writes: Religion has influenced slavery and much of the lack of women rights you see accross the world, so Elton does have a point. However, I wouldn't say it was ever the religion itself, but the people who enforce their prejudices in the name of it. Wher it's gay marriage, a woman's right to vote or a black man ability to acquire equal oppurtunity education...among many others, all share the common denominator of Human Rights.
  40. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: Big fan of Elton John's music, but that is about it. He should know that making generalized statements like that about religion, or anything, is a sign of ignorance. I belong to a United Church and their are many gay members and a congregation that is quite ethnically diverse. Our minister is Asian and we have in our congregation African American, Caucasion, Asian and Middle Eastern members. Wish Mr. John a good journey.
  41. old curmudgeon from Bulgaria writes: Gee, number 9. I think the Crusaders put up pretty good numbers in the middle ages. And the Catholics--who were sent to the New World to do good--did exeptionally well, especially in the extermination category. And Serbs and Croats are Christian, and I understand they weren't too nice to one another. If Christians haven't killed 40 million, it's probably due more to the fact that the world was a smaller and more isolated place when they were doing their murdering than it is to any degree of conscience or moral superiority.
  42. 1938371 1938371 from vancouver, Canada writes: Elton John is right when he says religion promotes homophobia, but God's work is seen every day because most people know someone who is gay be it a family member, co-worker, neighbour or a friend which contradicts the opinions of the pulpits. Some religious leaders may have failed to do anything about tensions and conflicts around the world, but ironcially most soldiers are heterosexual leaving widowed and orphaned wive and kids or with an absentee spouse/parent during critical child-rearing years which brings into question the religious defintion of family values so often spoken of being a marriage of one man and one woman.
  43. Vickky Angstrom from Calgary, Canada writes: He is right about one thing: It really is astonishing how little religious leaders have done to work for world peace and how rarely they get together to even talk about it.
  44. Dragon Tree from Toronto, Canada writes: Religion does not save the soul!

    Religion and control are synonyms!
  45. Wayne Patterson from Ottawa, Canada writes: Elton does not see the big train, which is going to run him and others into extinction. European nations, as well as Canada, have such incredibly low rates of birth that the host populations are headed for minority status. However, Islamic groups remain exceptionally fertile and are having large families. It is simple trend analysis. For example, within fifty years, the population of France will be majority Muslim and there is every indication that this religious group, overall, will continue to reject secularism and continue to view the west as a society of debauchery. We have launched a successful social experiment based upon equal opportunity, equal rights, and the right to have as much as we can take. And in the process we have greatly impeded our reproductive potential. In time the new tenants will change the constitutions which guarantee a wide variety of human rights. And this is the train, which Elton just doesn’t see.
  46. Trevor Hill from Mississippi, United States writes: Good grief Elton John has a lot of Chutzpah!
    The audacity of someone who belongs to a group of people that the Torah/Bible says should be executed, to speak out against these religions. It staggers the mind.
    Shut up and sing Elton.

    Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

    Mathew 5:17-18 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
  47. C Mante from New York, United States writes: Religion, the actual history, should be taught in school. Maybe in same class as sex ed. Abstinence should be, shall we say, encouraged.
  48. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Although I disagree with any suggestion that religion be 'banned', I agree with Elton John that organized religion is often a rallying point for the bigots of the world. If one believes in a 'higher power', is it necessary to have an 'organized' faith in the first place? Aside from providing a refuge for the intolerant and those delusional enough to believe in the fairy tales upon which all religion is based, organized religion is really big business. Unfortunately, the state refused to recognize it as such. In many countries, organized religion is subsidized through tax exemptions and tax credits for the financial contributions of its adherents. In effect, it is subsidized also by non-believers as well since they pick up the slack in tax revenue caused by the tax exemptions and credits. So much for separation of church and state! If people really believe strongly enough in their religions, they should be obligated to finance them without support from the rest of society. (The same should apply to political contributions but that is a separate issue.) If we are lucky, and if human intelligence evolves, perhaps organized religion will eventually wither away. The day that we have freedom FROM religion will be cause for worldwide celebration.
  49. Ted Andrews from Toronto, Canada writes: 'Christian nations' participated in the killing of approx. 10 million in WW I and approx. 50 million in WW II.
    Hitler gained dictatorail power through the Enabling Act with the votes of the Catholic Centre Party.
  50. Paul Kruger from Vernon, Canada writes: Good work G&M, relegating this to almost the most obscure part of your site! Coming about a week after a prominent gay Christian hypocrite was 'exposed', Mr. “most prominent Gay himself “, Elton John, is guilty of EXACTLY the same prejudice and hatred that he despises in Christians! Way to go hypocrite! He has just proved that we really are all basically imperfect, except Christians know that about themselves. Now, as for the self-defeating stupidity of generalizations ... I mean, there is the church of England, the United church of Canada and many others - all of them promote, protect and seek out gay's as members ... and he would ban all religions? So, this was quite the 10 days! A leading gay Christian exposed as a Hypocrite (which he was) and a leading gay atheist exposed as a hypocrite (which he is). By Elton's superb logic, we would to conclude that being gay leads to hypocrisy? What a moron.
  51. ooga booga from toronto, Canada writes: Hey, number 9: atheism does NOT imply communism. You may as well point out that all of the quoted communists were MALES, and 'therefore' males are EXTREMELY dangerous.

    Jeez, don't they have schools in Alberta?
  52. ooga booga from toronto, Canada writes: Hey, number 35: 'Elton John is either the worlds' biggest hypocrite or he is blind. He and all his 'buddies' engage in behaviour that leads to a disease that is killing more people per year than any war ever could (AIDS). ' Ummm, the vast majority of new AIDS cases are in Africa, and result from HETEROSEXUAL intercourse, without condoms... In some countries 30% of the population has AIDS (no they aren't all gay!)... you'd think they'd use condoms... why don't they? Maybe it partly has something to do with the CATHOLIC CHURCH and their vociferous opposition to all forms of birth control.

    Number 10: 'if one opposes gay marriage as a legal and social institution because one considers that it corrodes the societal glue that holds human civilization together and keeps it fertile and growing, or because one believes, lacking scientific evidence to the contrary, that the homosexual lifestyle results from a personality disorder, that is homophobic hatred' Yes, Barry Turner, that is exactly correct, you are a homophobe, as your anti-gay conclusions are unsupported by any conceivable appeal to facts or logic and must therefore be laid at the feet of bigotry. The phrase 'corrodes the social glue that holds civilization together' is meaningless: no SSM advocate suggests that straight people (the great bulk of the population) should not get married and have bushels of children. And the phrase: 'one believes, lacking scientific evidence to the contrary, that the homosexual lifestyle results from a personality disorder' is pure unadulterated homophobic nonsense. Aside from the fact that the AMA struck homosexuality from the list of mental disorders in 1970 (I think they know more about mental illness than you ever will), 'personality disorder' is a loaded term to start with: for my money, religiousity is a far more harmful, pathetic, corrosive and depraved 'personality disorder' than homosexuality ever dreamt of being.
  53. Greg Ramsay from Montreal, Canada writes: While it's silly to suggest that banning religion is the answer, I do hope that all humans do eventually see religion for what it really is -- something that, on balance, has done more harm than good to humanity and to the planet. The sooner we make religion irrelevant, the better off we'll all be.
  54. David E from Canada writes: I sympathize with Mr. Elton John, but he's not exactly correct. The United Church of Canada is very supportive of gays and gay rights. So are some Anglican churches, quakers, and progressive Jewish groups. And I believe Jesus himself would have been supportive of gay people too, the same way he lovingly welcomed everyone into his circle (taxmen, lepers, prostitutes). So open-minded people everywhere have no problem with homosexuals. It would be more accurate to say that social conservatism is the problem. Conservatives of any or no religion are by nature always uneasy with people who are 'different. ' And they have a habit of trying to impose their own beliefs on society as a whole. As a progressive straight male, I have no problem with gays living their lives the way they wish.
  55. Darren X from toronto, Canada writes: 20: Erin Ballantyne: 'The world would most surely have been a much sorrier place. We would likely not have mass education, hospitals, charitable organizations, women's rights--just to name a few accomplishments of the many Christians who promoted these movements.'

    LOL! Thank you Erin, for writing the funniest thing I've read all morning. Without the Christian church there would be no charities??? No hospitals?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! The Christian church is a defender of women's rights??? Oh, Erin, please don't write any more comments, I can't take too much humour at once!!
  56. Pat Gesner from Canada writes: Given the overpoplation of the world (Would you prefer to live in a world without elephants, tigers, lions, rhinos, orangatangs, rainforests, marshes, etc in exchange for a billion more people?), I think religions should change and tolerate homosexuality. After all the poor and the needy have always been more numerous than homosexual (estimate-10%of the populationare natrually inclined that way) and religions have always tolerated them if not courting their ignorance. Is that the real reason why Homoxsexuals are not tolerared- got nothing to do with 'proper' sex, - they cannot be manipulated like the poor (hetrosexuals with large families) and the handicapped (apart from their orientation they have normal abilities)). Why not cultivate a 'holier than thou' view of homosexuals like religions do about the poor and the needy. Why not promote adoption? What could be more poor and needy than an unwanted child? Until religion can control sex to the point where there are no children born that cannot be fully provided by for by their parents, surely homosexuals can have valuable role in providing for unwanted children? There will still be a need for orphanages and help for the children everyone rejects or few have the resources to raise. Elton John comments are farfeched, but it is true that religions are not helpful to homosexuals who can provide a loving home for children. Since all religions have not managed to provide good hetrosexual parents for the children of its followers, why not loosen up a little stop acting like they know everything and have all the answers and try something new for a changed world ?
  57. Karine Private from Canada writes: Wow! Usually there is not much comments in the art sections, but look, add the word 'religion' into equation and you got people writing and arguing! Is not it a prove that religion fuels emotions both bad and good, depending on the underlying 'quality' of the peoples on both sides?
  58. enlightened redneck from Canada writes: 'Organized religion fuels anti-gay discrimination and other forms of bias'. This is a perfectly reasonable assertion. I wonder that it comes from the mouth of a flaming queen is what irks so many of the readers.
  59. Paul Griffiths from Kingston, Ontario, Canada writes: Elton John is an absolute fool. You can tell that he's never picked up a history book. Organized religion has been the greatest promoter of intellectual advancement in human history. Most of the greatest thinkers throughout history have been deeply religious (Copernicus, Galileo, Descartes, Pascal, J.R.R. Tolkien, C.S. Lewis etc.). Not only are Elton John's comments an affront to the intellectual legacy of organized religion, they're also an affront to human liberty. People should be free to choose the faith they adhere to. To attack this basic freedom is completely outside the mainstream, even in a modern society which has largely lost its way to moral relativism and secular humanism.
  60. doug m from vancouver, Canada writes:
    What I can't understand is why any educated person would believe fairy tails about some super being coming down from the sky to impregnate a palistanian peasant named Mary, whose devine love child is then said to posses super powers. Why is this fable given more credence than Greek stories about Zeus?
    And if people do want to believe in these fairy tales why should a modern society give their meeting buildings and income tax free status?
  61. mm from toronto from Canada writes: I have struggled with God; I have struggled with myself.
    I was young and trusting. I divided myself up into hatred and love, evil and good.

    It is the very act of division that is the problem. It is the belief that you know the answer before the question has even raised.

    Can you stop and allow yourself to imagine beyond what you know? Is it possible that you might not have all of the answers? Is it possible that you have stopped asking questions? Is it possible that there is a hatred coiled around your love?

    Listen.
    Sit still and listen to those around you.

    Why does this frighten you? Why do you fear those who see the world differently than you? Why do you want to destroy those who don't hold the same beliefs?
    Are your convictions so fragile? So easily threatened?
  62. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: So, if the world didn't have organized religion, more people would be accepting of gay lifestyle? I doubt it.

    I don't think that Elton has done much to promote a positive image for gay people. Have you ever seen the documentary where he is followed around, he comes across as very unpleasant.
  63. J Luft from Calgary, Canada writes: Elton has been slowly losing his mind over the past decade or so. This is just another example of that. There is no discrimination greater than that of so called 'secular humanists' towards those of religious beliefs.
  64. R W from St C, Canada writes: I think Elton John is heterophobic. He seems awfully interested in heterosexual approval for his homosexuality.
  65. Frank Enstein from Montreal, Canada writes: No 9 is correct. The world's worst attrocities have been committed by irreligious people and haters of religion : Lenin. Stalin , Mao, Kim Jong Il and Kim IL Sung, Hitler , Ghenghis and Kublai Khan. (anyone else care to add to the list?). The cause of wars in history has not been religion in and of itself, however religion has been used as a pretext or to add fuel to a war by monarchs and tyrants, whose ambitions were more greed and power for themselves and their regimes, usually territorial in nature , but in more recent times aimed at economic domination and the control of resources such as oil. With or without religion, these wars would still have occurred. In fact, without Christianity, after the collapse of the Roman Empire, Europe would not have recovered from the barbarian invasions and complete chaos which followed the collapse of the empire. The so called Dark Ages which followed would have been much darker, since Christianity was able to provide a moral code of conduct which previously did not exist within these barbarian tribes, also a code of law (much of today's law stems from canon law) , and with the organization of the Church through monasteries provided much aid to the poor, sick and elderly. The first schools and hospitals were organized by the Church, the monasteries become the source intellectual development , book writing and vast libraries. The first universities were organized through the Church, and these became the source of the philosophers and new thought and debate which resulted in the enlightenment period, and ultimately the modern world. The beginnings of science and research occurred in monasteries and Church based schools. The same occurred in the Islamic world, until the Mongol invasions completely destroyed their great cities and centres of Islamic culture in what is now Iran and Iraq- from which they never recovered.
  66. Norm Vermette from Victoria, writes: I simply want to let the readers know the Truth, including Sir Elton John. I am a devout christian (catholic) and I or the religion has nothing against Gay people. Its the lifestyle that opposes to the truth. Just as well as heterosexuals who live 'in sin'. This is not any different. 'Man and woman, He created them.' Who are we to tell God different? I sympathise with the Gay people about how they feel. Although it can't be easy, they must carry that cross and live a celibate life. For those who don't believe in God, I'm sure they could understand nature. You can't co create without the opposite sex.. physically speaking. So why do we not leave God do his work and we follow under His law. As Freedom has its limits.
  67. jack doober from brantford, Canada writes: I try to live by the Ten Commandments and a belief in God but the church puts too many Rituals, Statues, the Cross, Jesus and Mary between me and God. I believe that Communism and Capitalism are both religions of a sort and should be considered that way...
  68. The Last Varlet from Canada writes: Gee, Trevor, (post 46), I'm glad that the Leviticus scripture cleared the homosexual issue . I must admit, I did'nt believe you until I looked it up. But I do need your advice on some other issues;

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

    Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Americams, but not Russians
  69. Grant Bowen from new west bc, Canada writes: It's funny, the right wingers on these boards are usually very quick to protest on the side of the victim, but, they let their inherent bigotry show through when they fal to recognize homosexuals as victims. How can they be victims if they are somehow deluded lesser lifeforms?
  70. Grant Bowen from new west bc, Canada writes: #46: you just proved Elton's thesis
  71. Herbert Mitterboeck from Kitchener, Canada writes: Elton John--Ban all religion ???.....the result would be that 99% of your fellow-homo's
    who are Roman catholic priests would be out of work-I think thats Gay bashing
  72. Gerry Vee from Winnipeg, Canada writes: To poster 46: you should shutup, spewing your hateful quotes. Aren't you embarrassed to be so judgmental? Your faith lends you the righteousness to be so ignorant, right? This is exactly what Elton is talking about.
  73. Norm Neil from in the Wild, Wild West..., Canada writes: post #46 (Trevor Hill from Mississippi, United States): Here are a few more passages to add to your collection:

    Deuteronomy (22 22:5) The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

    Deuteronomy (21:10) When you go to war against your enemies and you see a beautiful woman and find her desirable, you may take her. If she ceases to please you, send her away.

    Leviticus (20:10) If any of you men have sex with another man's wife, both you and the woman will be put to death.

    Dueteronomy (14:21) You shall not eat anything that you find that is dead; you may give it to the stranger who is within your towns, that he may eat it, or you may sell it to a foreigner.

    Leviticus (21:9) If she profanes herself by playing the harlot, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

    Isaiah (66:15) For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many. Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig’s flesh shall come to an end together, says the LORD.

    Levitcus (19:20) If a man has sex with a slave girl he is not to be punished. She is a slave.

    I assume you follow these as well?

  74. scott thomas from Canada writes: #46, I love when people quote from Leviticus. Of course, they only take the 'lieth with women' part and leave out all the rest. If anyone is interested in a wacky fundamentalist read, you'll find it there. One of my favourite bits it the part that says that cripples 'can't-eth be politicians.' I wonder if Stockwell Day believes in that one too. Because it's in that book of fables called the Bible.
  75. Basser Basser from Hamilton, Canada writes: #9. From Alberta ( Why am I not surprised?) Crusades, Spanish Inquisitions, Church of England 400 years ago, Cross Burnings in the Deep South. Christian Based Germany and the Jews inWWII. Hmm and I thought of these egsamples of Religous 'Love' in about 27 seconds!. Gee I must be really smart eh? No question for me If I could Ban all organized religion, I would do so in a heart-beat. I believe very strongly in God. I however have absolutely no use for Religion of any type! It's Deadly
  76. Paul Kruger from Vernon, Canada writes: Just come back from church ... today, all round the world, Christian churches pray for their fellow Christians who are killed for believing in Christ. More than 500 each day, about 175,000 each year - that's a fact! A Candle was lit during our service for each person who died for their faith during our service. By the end of the service, the table was full. The gay folks sure 'talk a good talk' - but sadly, their walk is lacking. I understand they feel rejected and want us to 'rubber-stamp' their life-style, but we are entitled to our beliefs too – not just them. The best we can do is say 'you have a free will to believe and do what you want' - the same message we give to those of our brethren that commit adultery etc. ... so now, since most of us cannot tell them what they want to hear, somehow we are 'hating them' and so they want us banned from the face of the earth? Hmmm ... sounds really hypocritical to me. Anyhow, if any group has a right to complain about persecution, nowadays, increasingly, it's us Christians. So, we are naturally very suspicious of those who try and marginalize our beliefs or who try and vilify them with their flagrantly inaccurate generalizations. Elton, your way off key on this song!
  77. Gord Cee from Canada writes: Although Elton John usually doesn't have all oars engaged at any given time he may be right on this one. As an example a fanatically religious group that is a throwback to the dark ages, and attracts ignorant and violent disciples, is now a danger to all mankind and has been largely responsible for discrediting one of the best presidents the US has had in recent years
  78. robert bombenon from calgary, Canada writes: there are two great plagues ravaging our planet :
    NATIONALISM & RELIGIONS

    Will somebody , please try to find a cure !!!!!!!!!
  79. M D from London, Canada writes: There is a huge difference between a religous conservative and a homophobe. While many devout Catholics may not agree with homosexuality, many of these same people would also be upset to see homosexuals attacked, abused, or discriminated against.
    It's time that Elton John respected these people as well.
  80. John McCaffery from Australia writes: Intellegent response from Norm Neil #33; however, I would add that we should not confuse those in conflict with a church or religion, such as the case with Galileo, compared to those in conflict with God - huge difference.
  81. .. .. from Canada, Canada writes: People don't like being told their lifestyle is sinful. If he didn't believe it to be true it wouldn't bother him so much.
  82. sharon charles from Vancouver, Canada writes: Whoa pc mg from Calgary! You need to do a little historical research my dear! Few could surpass the killing spree by Christians carried out through the ages. Besides the crusaders, colonial christian powers that killed aboriginal peoples of the world and enslaved even more, you must remember that Germany was Christian. Some 17 million lost their lives in that conflict not to mention the armed forces that opposed them. To err on the side of history maybe we should call it a draw! As for Elton it seems to me that his focus is organized religion not faith or spirtual beliefs. For the fact checkers it is sort of hard to dispute his point and he does not single out just Christians. He is equally entitled to his say and his career as a singer has nothing to do with it so suggestions to the contrary are pure silliness. What comes next based on that view, no accountants or lawyers? Well okay I will concede that if it also includes all religious leaders of all faiths.
  83. Brad Reddekopp from Hazelton, Canada writes: Most religions obviously do promote intolerance of homosexuality. It's certainly not hard to figure out that Christianity and Islam have been a consistent source of harm in this world.

    To PC #9: the horrors of communism are the consequence not of atheism but of collectivism/anti-inidividualism, which is a characteristic that communism shares with most religions. When the focus is on a 'greater good' rather than the individual, all manner of horrors may be justified in the mind of the believer.
  84. Ima Bleeder from Ancaster, Canada writes: Shame on the media, Elton is entitled to his opinion and that's what it is, an opinion. He is a musician who happens to be gay. The press ask questions looking for responses that will sell rags and once again have succeeded. Elton has probably had this opinion for some time and has expressed it to some close to him, but has anybody seen him go out of his way to fund an anti religion movement? I guess it was a slow newsday in Montreal.
  85. Justin Lawn from Beautiful, Canada writes: Thank you very much to post #46 for proving Elton John correct!
  86. Some Guy from Canada writes: It is interesting that almost all of the posters here saw this an attack on Christianity. Homophobia is not just a Christian viewpoint, mainstream Judaism, Islam, and Sikhism are also quite homophobic. I remember Paul Martin in a visit to India being lectured by the head of the Sikh religion that gay marriage was the product of a diseased mind. Some Christian groups have made remarkable progress in coming to terms with their homophobia, most notably the United Church of Canada where roughly a third of its congregations allow gay marriage. Some small minority religions such as Quakers, Untitarians, and the North American branch of Baha'ism were way out front on this issue. Sir Elton's rant may seem a little out there, but a significant quantity of the resources of many churches are being diverted to homophobis in support of two biblical quotes in Leviticus and I think second Corinthians when these are clearly not in biblical terms core beliefs. I seriously doubt it's all worth a significant amount of your treasure and public good will.
  87. Alex Q from toronto, Canada writes: amazing...so much religion bashing...must be that those who are religious are just idiots and not clever as the posters here.

    religions/beliefs are a core part of the human existence. we've had it in some sort or another since we've been here.

    a real good chance that even without our christianity religion that homosexuals would be prejudiced against. humans fundamentally are lazy and cautious of people who are different than themselves.
  88. Glenn Hawley from Calgary, Canada writes: Jay Cee from calgary, Canada writes:
    'Please load google in your browser and search for the christian crusades. The numbers of deaths are startling,'

    For that matter, you could examine the equivalent and contemporary muslim 'crusades' that spread Islam throughout much of the middle east and near east. The numbers of deaths are even more startling.
  89. Brian Finlay from Newmarket, Canada writes: I am sorry Mr. John believes religion promotes hate. This doesn't seem right given Christ taught us to NEVER judge each other (Matthew 7:1). People who chose to follow Christ do not judge others. People who judge others are not Christians.

    It is each homosexuals individual choice whether they ignore or address the fact God is offended by homosexuality (refs. Leviticus 20:13, 1-Timothy 1:8-11, Romans 1:24-28, 1-Corinthians 6:9-10, Genesis 19:4-13, Leviticus 20:13, Judges 19:15-25...).

    In my experience organized Christian religion exists to help all people find and maintain peace with God through Christ.

    May God bless you Mr. John and please do continue to seek truth and peace.
  90. Henry Allen from Toronto, Canada writes: #57: In response to your point, I suspect some of of this emotion in exchanges may be because so many of us today are prepared to say we do not trust those who claim to be religious, especially fundamentalists. There was a time not many years ago in Canada when we dared not challenge the religious for fear of rejection and persecution by these people. Increasingly, the religious are being confronted, as seen in many of these posts. The religious, of course, often do not imagine and will not accept their own hypocracies and discriminatory attitudes and behaviours. The damaging discrimination of the religious remains in obvious and subtle forms, including that which has been described by Elton John. We must continue the battle to preserve separation of church from the state.

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