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$6-billion light-rail network to transform Toronto

JEFF GRAY

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 12:45 AM EDT 17/03/07

Transit commission says massive new light-rail network will attract 70-million new riders over next 15 years ...Read the full article

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  1. Daniel Menard from United States writes: Is ANYONE getting this, the TTC is constantly whining for money, it's the most expensive transit system in Canada to take, five dollars for a two way trip is hardly a bargain and it goes up on average .25 cents per year and they're 'expanding' more of the overpriced system now with light rail cars that may or may not 'attract 70 million new riders' where did they pull that figure out of? GAS is at it's highest price since 1979 during the fuel shortages we had with the Iran-US affair and now they choose to gentrificate transit by adding MORE instead of changing what they have now to fuel efficient buses that use alternatives fuels and expanding the subway line and/or GO TRAIN to beat commuting deadlocks across the city... Another PERFECT example of OVERPRICED MISMANAGEMENT and IDIOCY on behalf of City Hall and the TTC, apparently you have to be related to someone to get a job in either department, so perhaps it 'runs in the family'?
  2. Rick McNaulty from Canada writes: Prepare for Loonie Left incompetance brought to you by the clowns of the GTA. Not a chance of happening in most of our lifetimes but I'm sure the connected Liberals of the GTA will become instantly rich. What a shame real Canadians had to donate to this corrupt center of Liberals incompetance and corruption.
  3. bruce reid from Toronto, Canada writes: This is very cool. The dedicated streetcar line down Spadina completely transformed that street, from a gridlocked nightmare to the quickest way to get to/from the subway. More of these dedicated lines can only help.
  4. Global Citizen from Canada writes: if funding from other governments can be found？

    I wish Toronto best of luck! It'll will take another 10 years to get the funding, and 20 more years to build something entirely different, perhaps they will realize by then that subway lines is the future.
  5. D M from Canada writes: Hey Rick, we should just kick Ontario out of the country, what do you think?
  6. P. Q. from Toronto, Canada writes: I agree with part of the first comment. The existing subway system needs improvement first. In particular, the signalling system, which is supposed to prevent trains from crashing into each other - is very inefficient.

    There was a proposal to retrofit an automatic computerized train signalling system which could potentially double the capacity of the existing lines by safely increasing the maximum number of trains that could be running at the same time. Though expensive in absolute terms, in reality it is a very cheap way to effectively double our subway system.

    The hoped for 70 million new riders won't take the new light-rail system if it just drives them smack into an already overcrowded subway system.

    And lets get those fume spewing diesel buses off the streets once and for all!

    Hey Rick, lighten up man...The people who live in Toronto are Canadians too. The City has never once gotten more from the federal and provincial governments than it gives. Let's make the City better.
  7. Eldon Theodore from Toronto, Canada writes: Can anybody say tri-government funding for transit?
  8. Sue W from Canada writes: Daniel Menard from United States: Check out this website in 15 years, after those 70,000 million riders are buzzing around the GTA. This is Canada. We'll still be doing what we do best....whining for money.
  9. A K from Toronto, Canada writes: Brilliant move by Miller and Adam G. With Prov/Fed elections looming and the budgets annoucnements next both Harper/Mcgunity better cough up more Tax dollars for this plan other wise say good bye to their seats of power.

    Great new for transit in Toronto.
  10. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: just don't make the mistake that we did with our LRT (Little Ralphie's Train) We put a section of it right down the middle of 36th St. N.E. and it is a traffic nightmare in that section of town. Accidents galore.
  11. Trevor H from Toronto, Canada writes: For a fraction of the cost and time, why not just have more dedicated lanes for buses, taxis and carpooling vehicles with 3 persons or more? This would reduce gridlock significantly and could be accomplished well before 2021. While we would still incurr expenses with regards to new buses and building islands / medians for bus stops, this would certainly be more cost effective than ripping up the roads, laying down tracks and setting up electricity lines (in addition to the cost of islands /medians and the cost of new street cars).
  12. M H from Canada writes: I think this is exactly what Toronto needs, and that this would be a much better use of money than the York U/Vaughan subway extension. Right now the transit in Toronto is best at getting commuters to the suburbs downtown (and even that's not great, from malvern to downtown takes more than 1.5 hours and no less than 4 transfers on the TTC). Traveling from one suburban location to another can be so time consuming and frustrating that it is not a viable option for most. For example from my house in scarborough to my work in markham can often take two hours each way on the bus, but only half an hour in the car. If toronto is to grow by millions a lot of the intensification is going to have to happen along the major avenues in the inner suburbs as in the Toronto "official plan". There is no land to add road capacity, so efficient transit on it's own right of way is the only option if Toronto is to grow with out our standards of living declining even further.
  13. Rick McNaulty from Calgary, Canada writes: Hello DM - Oh no DM Canada could never function without the good folks of the GTA. I still recommend kicking out Alberta.
  14. Charles Brown from Vancouver, BC, Canada writes: Although light rail or other rail system is expensive, it is nevertheless the most environmentally friendly way to move masses over a long period of time. At the same time, Park & Ride should be implemented to encourage as many people as possible in the suburbs to use transit. Short term fixes like dedicated bus or HOV lanes do not work. Diesel buses already cause a lot of pollution and gridlock in our overcrowded streets and we don't need more of them. We need long term vision and courage to plan and implement public transit solutions. Band-aid solutions are cheap up front but very costly in the long run.
  15. D M from Canada writes: spoken like a real Canadian Rick
  16. Silver Paladin from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree with M Poland - DO NOT DO WHAT CALGARY DID The light-rail system design in Calgary is poor, especially along 36th Street and Downtown. So many accidents occur, and road rage is constantly being elevated with this foolish design. To make the LRT work, it needs to be underground where traffic would be crossing it, and left above ground only where the traffic is travelling parallel to the train. The road rage is increasing - as you sit and wait for the light, it is about to turn green, but oh no the train lights come on. So you continue to wait at the red light. The train lights finish, the traffic is about ready to cross, and the train from the opposite direction now comes through, sticking everything back to red again. And I do mean everything - the traffic that would cross the train tracks and the traffic going parallel to the train are all stopped - nobody is moving. NE Calgary is a perfect example of a very poor design. The leg in NW Calgary is much better, though it does have some problems also. Downtown is horrible, not just because of the design, but also because of the multiude of uncaring and ignorant pedestrians (and vehicular traffic also). WOW, just realized, an article about Toronto - and no reason to throw dirt or diss either side of the political spectrum. What a change!
  17. Johnna Public from Toronto, Canada writes: I wish the G&M looked back at its own archive. Let's consider the likelihood of this happening... Toronto's embarrassment of a waterfront has been "under discussion" since I moved to Toronto 30 years ago. Progress: none! This is how things "work" in Toronto. Will this light rail transit expansion ever happen. Probably not. It requires "vision" to understand that a city the size of Toronto needs a comprehensively desinged transit system. If Toronto had that vision, the TTC would not be the mess it is today. PREDICTION: Nothing will happen to improve or expand TTC until people start suing the TTC because of relatives/family members falling off subway platforms in front of oncoming trains. Wanna risk death? Transfer at St. George (like the posters suggest) during peak hours! Platforms less than three feet wide are barely able to handle "normal" traffic, let along the "peak-hour violume". Somebody is going to have a missah and get killed. Toronto will be sued - successfully - again and again until, finally, something will be done. But will it be WELL done? Of course not! Toronto likes to SAY it's "world class", but it has difficulty BEHAVING like a world class city. That is why the TTC is the mess it is. We LIE TO OURSELVES when we think that a city with as bad a transit system as Toronto can be "world class". There are so many circumstances like the TTC that make it clear to ANY visitor that Toronto - while large - is a parochial 'burb and always will be.
  18. Michael Sharp from Blossom City, Canada writes: 6 billion for streetcars.

    It's kinda funny.
  19. david pollack from Toronto, writes: Toronto City policians are pathetic. Howard, time to retire (about 2 decades ago!!). How about trying to get people to use your business (ride the TTC) by IMPROVING THE SERVICES instead of making it more inconvenient. There should be at least 5 subway lines in Toronto. People like subways... streetcars are a menace to the streets and are too expensive. $6 billion is a lot of money for streetcars. Anyone try to cross or drive along St. Claire over the last two years while it was under construction. Businesses went bankrupt because of the inconvenience from the construction. STREETCARS DO NOT WORK.
    David Miller will go down as the worst Toronto Mayor ever.... his vision for Toronto is archaic and way too left wing. His "cabinet" are a bunch of yes people. Howard M, you will go down as THE WORST TTC COMMISSIONER EVER... People who voted for him in his riding should be ashamed of themselves!! No wonder Cretien won 3 terms, there are too many idiots who voted for Howard and Miller and Cretien. Goodbye Miller, Goodbye Howard, please get out of Toronto so we can improve this great city!
  20. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: This is really great news for Toronto. I hope with an extensive transit system people will choose transit over vehicles. Right now it takes me 15 minutes to get by bus to the nearest subway station because of traffic. With a Right Of Way streetcar line to this subway station the the commute to this station should be will be cut in half. Thank you David Miller and Adam Giambrone for making Toronto's transit system properly reflect the GTA's 5 million plus population.
  21. Trilly B from Canada writes: I had understood "light rail" to mean SRT-type vehicles, running like trains and not interfering with road traffic. But we're talking about streetcars?

    Toronto has buses and streetcars galore to mingle with the cars and SUV's, stopping at every block, and taking hours and hours to cross the city. Why not create express routes that cover greater distances, like the express subways in NYC?

    The core is served quite well by transit; it's the outlying areas that need help! This article makes it sound like all we're doing is adding more of what Toronto already has.
  22. John Deckhardt from Western Halifax, Canada writes: Get a monorail like Springfield!
  23. admore inches from Toronto, Canada writes: If kicking out Alberta means I don't have to read anymore moronic postings from Rick M, I'm all for it.
  24. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    Sounds like the aim of the plan is to create more congestion for cars with the hope that it will force people on to public transit. In reality the exodus to "905" will continue.
  25. Chandler Day from Toronto, Canada writes: Well, at the very least THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT IT. Sometimes words to evolve into real action. The fact of the matter is that the TTC is woefully underfunded by the federal and to a much larger extent the provincial gov't. Street cars are well and good for streets like Jane Street, Morningside, etc. But Eglinton, Queen, and Sheppard NEED subways. Anything else is just stupid. The Bloor subway line needs to be extended west to Sherway Gardens. We need a Queen Street line all the way from Victoria Park also to Sherway Gardens. An Eglinton subway should also be constructed from York City Centre to the DVP. The street cars could fill in the service on the more minor streets. The other idea is to use some of the abandonned railway corridors or severely under utilized railway corrirdors that already cris cross the City of Toronto. For example, the Weston Subdivision runs from Union Station north west to York City Centre and right out to the airport. The Newmarket Subdivision runs from Union Station to, well, Newmarket. There is only one track there now in a corridor that was built for 3 tracks. The grades are all there, the bridges are there, whada ya waiting for? As to the money, Toronto pays something like 20 Billion MORE into the kitty every year to the feds and province it NEVER sees back. Just 1 year's worth of OUR money would solve a lot of transit woes.
  26. Jason Mills from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow. Many of you making comments really need to take your heads out of the ground.

    Traffic will never get better. Its a proven fact. Other cities around the world have learned this and have built their transit systems based on this. Eventually traffic will get so bad you'll have no other option but to take transit. The Mayor and TTC know this and that is why they are planning these lrt's. Sure i'd love to replace many of these lines with subways and i'm sure they would as well but we all know that this is a goal that can be reached without asking for something unattainable. Once these lines are built and have created large amounts of ridership, you can be sure that they will eventually want to convert them to a subway if funds become available.

    Its a great day to be living here but it will be even better when these projects can start.
  27. C C from Canada writes: I think a lot of people thinking this is too expensive don't know what they're talking about. Did you people look at what this plan includes? It's EVERYTHING, including the price of all the vehicles, even the new trains for the current street car routes (and trust me, people who hate the streetcars, and I'm one, might change their tune when they see the new cars). In terms of "bang for buck", this whole plan is WAY cheaper than extending the Subway up to York will be, and everyone (even the federal Tories) are supporting that now.

    People who think this plan is too expensive should compare it to the subway extention that's already going ahead. In fact, a lot of transit experts are already pointing to the York extention and saying "See. Look how crazy that is. Look how much more you can do at a fraction of the (relative) cost". This seems like a great plan to me. The kind of plan we'll be kicking ourselves over 15 years from now if we can't muster up the political will to make it happen. Would I like to see a huge expansion of the subway? Sure. But that'll cost 10 times as much money people. That's crazy.

    People who simply say "streetcars don't work" are A) thinking of the kind of streetcars most of Toronto has now, not the new types of cars this plan propses, and B) completely ignoring the new Spadina line which has transformed Spadina (in a good way).

    This is a really good plan, and I hope it gets the support it deserves.
  28. ra ku from to, Canada writes: I love public transit in general and even better, biking (I bike from the outskirts to downtown 9-10months a year, used to do it with my 2 then 3 then 4 year old). I hate driving downtown, and hate the fact TO is so under-serviced by public transit.

    But over the years I've come to realization that TTC is part of the problem, not part of the solution. Where in developed world a bus driver makes more money than highly skilled highly educated professional?? TTC bus drivers can make up to $60k!! (starting at well over $40k), even experienced MBAs make less sometimes. When I was in teh States I saw advertisments for bus drivers for the city transit with the starting salary of ... $8.11/h! And that was during the economic book (1999) with an almost non-existent unemployment.

    The organization with problems that include falling roofs, constant service breakdowns, slippery and right-down dangerous stairs (Queens Pk entrance from the University side) that too years to repair, can nevertheless afford to pay their employees way beyond their skill set and is allowed to by $700M worth of equipment (new subway cars) without competitive bid where apparently a 200M cheaper solution existed from Siemens. This is ludicrous and we are all paying for this.

    Even though I use TTC daily (in winter) I would actually like to see it go bankrupt and something better emerge through crisis. TTC is an albatros stone around TO's neck.
  29. John Stanton from Toronto, Canada writes: Great news and if done right will have the ability to transform vast swaths of the city. Funding of course will be an issue, but this plan is much more financially sound than the Spadina extension to Vaughan. LRT is the future of transit within Toronto. S-Bahn-style service on our Go corridors is the future of transit in the G.T.A. Let's get with the program!
  30. Albin Forone from Toronto, Canada writes: For the life of me, I don't understand why Canadian cities are not allowed to raise money with tax-exempt municipal bonds. Income trust investors have just been bashed and there is a lot of retiree money looking for yield. I am happily paying for significant civic improvements to the infrastructure of American cites for a handsome tax-free (in America) return: why not here?
  31. John Miller from Canada writes: Any city as large as Toronto needs an advanced transit system. As pointed out in several other comments the traffic problem, and associated pollution, will become worse as the population grows. Public transit is expensive to build but it's necessary.

    Relative to the prevailing economic conditions, the current subway wasn't cheap when it was built and neither was the New York subway but what would either city be like now without subways. Light rail is easier and cheaper to build than subways but there are drawbacks. Noise and high maintenance costs are two big problems.

    Toronto should look into above ground maglev systems. Check out www.magplane.com for a maglev system designed for urban use. The company says it's only a little more expensive than light rail but the ongoing operating costs are much much less. That system is still under development but it might be ready when Toronto needs it.

    The Yonge and Bloor subways should be automated first since they are so overcrowded in rush hour now. Then build the urban maglev and Toronot will have the most advanced transit system in the world.
  32. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Good idea, but Transit funding is needed for all cities, not just Toronto.
  33. B H from Calgary, Canada writes: Stop your whining everyone. Guess what - we (see "CANADA") have built a country based on driving, not transit. Well, sorry to tell you, but some day, we'll have no gasoline, not soon, but some day. Then what do you do? You can't all drive trucks and SUV's for funsies. Get over yourself, shut up, and walk, bike and take the train. If not, move downtown. You don't always get what you want - since when did it become everyones God given right to drive and SUV everywhere? In Europe, there is no space, and not enough gas, so it's over $2 per litre. So, did they cry like Canada? No, they developed a fantastic train system, and few people drive everywhere, because you don't have you. Don't bother to tell me to move there - I would if I could. This country and this city (Calgary) are an unbelievable waste of space when it comes to city planning. At least Vancouver and TO want to do something right with downtown living and transit. They may never get all the money because of you ignorant people who NEED to drive everywhere, but at least the try. So when gas is $3/litre and there ain't none, and it takes 3 hrs to get to work by bus instead of 1 with the train, don't cry. Get over it.
  34. Mike M from Toronto, Canada writes: Albin Forone - tax-free munis are essentially a tax on the poor. US stadium subsidies are a perfect example. They're usually financed by munis, which are purchased by big corps or rich people (they're not usually available in small increments like $1k or $2k that most people can afford). The stadium owners then get the subsidy from the city, so they're happy. It's then the city taxes that pay back the munis (stadiums and most municipal investments are almost always negative value investments), which are usually rather evenly spread (but the rich have already received the subsidy in the munis). If governments were investing in investments with positive returns (i.e. get more tax revenue than what they spend), they wouldn't need the tax-free status to get the lower rates. Keeping the gains taxable keeps municipalities honest in their investments and is something the US is quite foolish for doing.
  35. Bertram Frandsen from Canada writes: Trevor H from Toronto, Canada writes: "For a fraction of the cost and time, why not just have more dedicated lanes for buses, taxis and carpooling vehicles with 3 persons or more? This would reduce gridlock significantly and could be accomplished well before 2021."

    Trevor H - I think that you're missing the big picture. In the long term, due to gridlock and pollution, "personal ground transportation units" will not have a future in our large cities. The action taken by London, England to restrict motor vehicles in the inner city will ultimately happen here. Dedicated lanes and/or building more traffic lanes is "old think."

    It will not be easy to get people out of their cars - the car has been king in Canadian cities for the past 60 years. However, in the long term, people will not have a choice. Therefore, alternatives are needed (in fact, this expanded transit should have been undertaken 20 years ago). How successful the current City Hall administration will be implementing this new vision is the multi-billion dollar question.
  36. Mike M from Toronto, Canada writes: What would be nice is if the city could actually provide a transit service that people were willing to pay for. It's stupid that the city spends $2 MM in operating the transit system yet only brings in $700k in revenue - anyone who ever says that roads are subsidized need only look at those figures (these figures are from the 2006 Toronto budget). People are willing to pay for services that are worthwhile (Greyhound (Laidlaw) has been operating for over 80 years in the private sector, without getting any subsidies) - the problem is the city does it with such horrible service and the decision makers never have to pay for the problems they create, the people do (would any company have remained in business after building the useless U shape of the Toronto subway system instead of expanding more effectively, like just about every other city).

    Instead of investing all this money in infrastructure, why not just get rid of the stupid clause in the City of Toronto Act that prevents companies from operating their own transportation system.
  37. Mike M from Toronto, Canada writes: Also, why is there never any mention of an elevated solution for transit? Chicago and New York are two cities that I can think of that do just fine with their elevated lines, while in Toronto, the talk is always of a zero-sum game for transportation options (either cars or public transit on Spadina, never a solution for both).
  38. MBA Guy from Toronto, Canada writes: Also Trevor H, the dedicated lanes I find actually create more congestion because it forces all cars into specific lanes. In a city such as Toronto, trying to add designated lanes downtown would be disastrous since it also already majory congested on downtown and Midtown streets.
  39. Karl Junkin from Tokyo, Canada writes: P.Q. from Toronto said "The hoped for 70 million new riders won't take the new light-rail system if it just drives them smack into an already overcrowded subway system."

    This is a good point. This system has critical flaws and is a potential disaster waiting to happen. I was expecting better before the details were released, but there are some stupid oversights in this. Don Mills Line to Pape - and terminating at Pape subway?! These people are going to get onto the Bloor Line and transfer to Yonge Line. The Don Mills line is supposed to be part of the long-lost Downtown Relief Line. You have to build the downtown portion first which would go from Pape to and along Queen St., then after that build north of the subway. Then there's the Finch car, it goes to Finch and Yonge, same problem. Yonge has problems with capacity. They are not keeping this in mind. If this goes ahead before there is a relief for Yonge, the system will choke on its own success.
  40. Apu Nahasapeemapetilon from Vancouver, Canada writes: Silver Paladin from Calgary;

    Compare Calgary's LRT with Edmonton's LRT. Why is the Calgary system better than Edmonton's? Because Edmonton wasted so much money tunneling under Jasper Ave.

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