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Exclusive investigation

From Canadian custody into cruel hands

GRAEME SMITH

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 2:01 AM EDT 23/04/07

Exclusive investigation: Savage beatings, electrocution, whipping and extreme cold: Detainees detail a litany of abuses by Afghan authorities ...Read the full article

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  1. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Sure is nice to know we're fighting with the good guys...we'll just terrorize the terrorists into submission, yeah, that's it.
  2. Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Just the stiff upper lip stuff to win hearts and minds, eh? The war against terror. We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. Coalition of the willing. If you are not for us you are against us.....

    Perhaps Stockwell would like to import some of these techniques for his prisons here and for radically increasing the number of guilty pleas?
  3. JD Wood from Toronto, Canada writes: Disgusting. But it looks as if the paranoid, fearful Americans are on the board already, trying to spread their schizophrenic beliefs that all Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq want to swim across the ocean and get them.
  4. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: Everyone should call the 'Anti Corruption' boss. Convincted a while back in Vegas for peddling heroin to an undercover agent.

    Buy some smack..... and .... whoppeee.... no more pain.

    Is this story REAL?
  5. BaZ MaN from Canada writes: How cruel it would be so much better just to cut their heads off as infidels!
  6. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: HD Wood. The situation is terrible. Worse than thought, previously.

    Don't you know? ALL muslims are out there to kill us?

    Only thing I don't understand is why this wasn't happening in 1946, or before? Is there some possibility this has something to do with US foreign policy since then?

    By the way, if the powers that be want to stop all this, just wire 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
    Swiss Francs to a bank account number which can be provided.

    Will be happy to kick back 50 percent of it to YOUR Swiss bank accounts, numbers to be provided. All very hush hush of course.... all in the name of National Security.

    Ernst Stavro Blofeld.
  7. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: Hot news... just breaking.

    The Compensation Committee of SMERSH has now decreed that 'W' be granted a bonus of $200 Million U.S. dollars, for a job well done.

    Of course, it will be credited directly to a Swiss Bank account.
    None of those pesky US taxes.

    All members voted unanimously, that is is completely unacceptable for a mere vice president to have a net worth less than than of the front man, the President.... who takes all the well deserved criticism from his own people, and other countries.

    Please provide an account number.

    E.S.B.

    For your eyes only.... please destroy after receipt of this message.
  8. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: Apologies from SMERSH.

    The word in the previous post, of the the Vice President being worth less than the president, was meant to mean MORE than the president.

    The incompetent clerk who sent that is now history.

    So..... where do we send the kickbacks?
  9. mogens bay from Canada writes: This what I like about GM. Giulty without proof. The Canadian way? before slandering, where and when was these interviews done? In Afganistan? then the people opening their mouth would be dead now. Mr. Smith how much money were you paid for this? and how many did you get killed? have a nice day.
  10. Western Canadian from West of Winnipeg, Canada writes: Every secret police and security agencies torture political prisoners.Assuming otherwise is just playing stupid.It happened in Iraq and Quantanamo.It is happening in Afghanistan. Canadian generals in Afghanistan will play dumb because it is just doesn't look nice and proper. And politicians? Who the hell trust them anyway?
  11. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: Question for the US powers that be....

    The board of directors of SMERSH are quite concerned. Apparently there ate over 200 Stinger missiles unaccounted for, stolen off the coast of Florida about 12 years ago, as well as 3 'broken arrows', nukes gone missing?

    What are the powers that be going to do about it?
  12. E K from Irrevervant, Canada writes: The fun never ends.

    Another channel for marketing more wars...... SMERSH. Lots of Americans have seen the James Bond movies. Maybe the White House can convince the people that there is ANOTHER bunch of 'Evil Doers' out there.

    Lots of incremental sales for the 'defence' industry. Good way to scare the s..t out of the American people. Only favour I ask.... send a private eMail... as to which presently nothing little complany can get contracts for 20 or 30 Billion for selling crap to the government.

    Hugs and Kisses.
  13. D. Sadoway from HK, Hong Kong writes: In the past Canadian agencies have gone to great lengths to ensure that extradited individuals leaving Canada would not face torture, inhumane treatment or the death penalty. In Afghanistan today are we not now being hypocritical by allowing our soldiers to transfer these individuals into the hands of the Afghan NDS gestapo, knowing full well they may face torture or even worse? Are we not moving more and more down the moral and ethical slippery slope that Bush et Al have taken us since 9-11 that has resulted in judge first, ask questions later or 'fire, aim, ready' as one pundit recently put it (Gitmo, Abu Graib, and dragnet victims like Mahir Arar). Those who survive the torture will surely be ticking timebombs who will come back to haunt Afghans and occupier forces for future generations.

    Put another way: how do we with the benefit of historical hindsight view the actions of those in agencies in WWII Vichy France who willingly complied with the edits of the Third Reich in sending thousands to their certain deaths? Are there any parallels with our forces perhaps unwitting alliance with the NDS??
  14. Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: The danger with torture is that because seeming someone in pain releases endorphins (the brain's natural opiate) the act of torturing becomes something addictive.

    Afghanistan is known to have many torture centers modelled after Abu Grab and has been called the Torture Center of the World. Unfortunately there's no way our troops can't be involved.

    It's a bad policy to start, especially if when they come home, they're still addicted.
  15. Francois A. from Calgary, Canada writes: Hunter J from Sudbury, 'The danger with torture is that because seeming someone in pain releases endorphins (the brain's natural opiate) the act of torturing becomes something addictive.

    Afghanistan is known to have many torture centers modelled after Abu Grab and has been called the Torture Center of the World. Unfortunately there's no way our troops can't be involved.

    It's a bad policy to start, especially if when they come home, they're still addicted'

    That's sick. The inenuedo your suggesting is disgusting. What insight do you have? Hmmm? Spell it out or keep your false accusations to yourself you sick excuse for a human being. I have many friends over there and I've already lost one. Our troops are not operating the prisons, get that throuugh your thick brain. My god you're disgusting.
  16. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: So much for being different from the Americans. I'd blame the neocons and Harper, but for once it's probably been going on since before they got into office. Of course, we're not going to count on Harper and cronies to actually put a stop to handing over people to be tortured.

    At least it's not Canadians doing the torturing, but it's disgusting none-the-less.
  17. Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: Francois A. from Calgary

    I’m sorry if you have relatives or friends with our forces in Afghanistan but during a more calm moment please look up two topics on the Net

    1. Torture and Endorphins
    2. Afghanistan and Torture

    Unfortunately what you&8217;ll see is that what I have said is true. I wish it wasn&8217;t but it is. You could also go to a library if you&8217;re interested further.

    What is most sad here is that our politicians are playing this card for political gain and in the end it&8217;s guys like you and me who end up paying the price in terms of erosion of our standards of living our personal freedom and our democracy.

    What&8217;s the answer ?? I don&8217;t know but I believe that we&8217;ll find it if we calmly seek the truth and try to block out the shrill of political rhetoric.

    Francois I truly wish your friends or relatives well and I&8217;m sorry if my comments on this forum have upset you
    .
  18. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: Dion and Liberals want this to continue for another two years...screw that, lets get out now and leave the torturing to the USA...they seemed to enjoy that side of things, in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and of course Afghanistan.
  19. G From Canada from Canada writes: This is what you get when a conservative government lead by an oppressive stevie harpo. It is time to get this war and fearmongering goverment out of here. Say no to bush and say no to steve.
  20. Vancouver-Kingsway Antics-Shy Voter from Canada writes: On Afghanistan:

    Stephen Harper Sept 18, 2006: 'It's certainly raising Canada's leadership role, once again, in the United Nations and in the world community where we used to have an important leadership role,' he said.

    Stephen Harper (from the CBC Sept 19, 2006): 'Canada shares its goal of giving the people of Afghanistan, the children, men and women alike, the chance of a better life,' Harper said in a Sept. 14 news release announcing Karzai's visit. 'A life of peace, security, freedom and justice. A life we as Canadians have for ourselves and that we seek for others.'

    Now, Stephen Harper, let's see some leadership on this.

    Stephen Harper is soft on Human Rights.
    Stephen Harper is soft on Truth.
  21. Peter Pecek from suriname, writes: The bottom line is, that we have no clue what we are doing over there. No idea who is who. Who is a 'suspected' taliban? Whom are we capturing? A dentist, a farmer and unemployed government employee an union organizer or just sombody who spits when he passes by? To our soldiers they all look the same. We will never know how much everyone hates us - they will not tell even when we (the 'Afghan Government') torture them......nice going Canada!
  22. Geoffrey Diss from Berlin, Germany writes: Brilliant.

    O'Connor must go. Day must go. The Harper government must go.

    And our troops must leave Afghanistan at the end of the current mandate.
  23. Vancouver-Kingsway Antics-Shy Voter from Canada writes: Scot Louks, if we don't know, and O'Connor doesn't know, Hillier doesn't know and apparently Harper doesn't know, perhaps Mr. Harper's psychic sidekick knows.

    Only the hairdresser knows for sure, right?

    Why is Stephen Harper allowing O'Connor to obfuscate the issue? Why is he allowing O'Connor and his crew to challenge a court proceeding by stating that the Canadian Charter does not apply to Canadians overseas? Why is he allowing O'Connor to further mislead Canadians and sacrifice Afghani people Canada is supposedly trying to help?

    Stephen Harper is soft on Human Rights.
    Stephen Harper is soft on Truth.

    That's why.
  24. ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada writes:
    This is unacceptable.

    The lives of our troops and our taxpayer dollars are going toward helping the Bush administration prop up their puppet regime of torturers, killers, war criminals, criminals, rapists, war lords, drug lords, and other predators and profiteers.

    They are basically thugs put in place by da boss to run the operation in Afghanistan. As in we gotta 'protect' the people there, ya know. The USA wants to secure its energy interests in that neighborhood, and these are the local mafia it's chosen to represent its interests there.

    Hamid Karzai will play this torture down, Stephen Harper will play this torture down. They'll also try to convince us that things will change. But this is simply not something that will to change anytime soon. The fact will remain that this mission is not for humanitarian purposes and is not a noble one.

    The poor Afghans tortured don't seem to hate Canada yet, at least of the ones quoted. They're generously speculating that we and our soldiers aren't aware that they get tortured. But just how long will that benefit of the doubt last? How long before this creates terrorism here?

    It's time to bring our troops back.
  25. Vancouver-Kingsway Antics-Shy Voter from Canada writes: Thanks for your polite tone also, Mr. Loucks. However, I have members of my family serving in Afghanistan as we speak, and can assure you thoughts of them and the rest of the troops are never far from my mind. Nor my family's. I've written on here before of my dread and unease about the treatment or release of people Canadian troops have detained at great risk of their life and limb. Concern for our troops is paramount, and I was mortified to hear from O'Connor's mouth that the detainees captured at such peril to Canadians are routinely bribed out, 'a revolving door' Mr. O'Connor phrased it. Certainly not released to torturers...

    Sadly, I cannot now be sure that the current government has a clue about what is happening, which is in itself horrifying since Mr. Harper is seemingly h*ll-bent on '...giving the people of Afghanistan, the children, men and women alike, the chance of a better life,' and 'A life of peace, security, freedom and justice. A life we as Canadians have for ourselves and that we seek for others.'

    Stephen Harper and others turned their backs on Maher Arar, and what did that get Canada? A $10 million lawsuit and, to quote Stephen Harper: 'It's certainly raising Canada's leadership role, once again, in the United Nations and in the world community where we used to have an important leadership role' and NOT IN A GOOD WAY!!!

    Stephen Harper is soft on Human Rights.
    Stephen Harper is soft on Truth.

    Stephen Harper must show leadership and ascertain what exactly is happening to the detainees acquired at great risk to our forces. O'Connor has to put a stop to his 'catch and release' program he's got running over there. Canada must be a beacon for human rights and not be hoodwinked into having Afghanis hate us for our suspension of human rights. Troops home February 2009, or sent to northern sectors for aid and rebuilding! It's time for other NATO forces to take the brunt.
  26. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Mr. Smith's article is a credit to journalism. If Canada wants to help bring democracy to Afghanistan it can't turn its back on prisoners and permit them to be tortured.
  27. Coralee Elder from Armstrong, Canada writes: I like the way people automatically judge an entire country based on what a few do. It is not 'the canadian way' to torture people and the average Canadian would not stand for it.

    It is embarassing that our international representatives have chosen to be spineless poodles following a policy they would not support on their own citizens. I find it disgusting that we would stand by and allow this to happen under our noses.

    But this is not a representation of Canadian beliefs instead one of men being taught to follow rules and not use common sense and decency.
    Canadians should roar about this we are for a lot of people the only thing that gives North America salvaged respect and it looks like that is going down the tube.

    War wow what a logical answer to all the worlds problems!
  28. Expert Eel from Canada writes: Don Adams from Canada writes: Torture is part of their society, their religion. Who are WE to say they're wrong? It's THEIR country.

    So Don, please explain to me again why Canada is in Afghanistan then? If it is not to bring democracy to them then why are we there?
  29. Expert Eel from Canada writes: I am ashamed of our Prime Minister who would like you to believe that he is a champion of Human Rights.

    I can't wait for the next election just to get the chance to vote his hypocritic gang of thugs back to the post Mulrooney era.
  30. Diogenes the Cynic from Canadian Warriors' Beach, Greece writes: In everything that matters in life, he who does not want to know bears full responsibility for not wanting to know. He is judged accordingly by the human observer.
  31. old curmudgeon from Armenia writes: I'm certainly comforted by the words of the Military Ombudsman that the prisoners aren't tortured except to extract information. Maybe we could hire him to run the government's Ethics Commission.
  32. Satori Zen from Warriors' Land, Canada writes: I once had the opportunity, here, to call for Canadian authorities to have 'independent' people, with unquestioned moral authority, investigate fully the conduct of all Canadians in Afghanistan (all the way to the very top), from the very beginning of our presence in that country. In a later post, a reader just bluntly and self-righteously asked me: 'WHY?'. In view of what had been made public at the time, I did not think it appropriate, to even answer his question. Well, this morning, in that article, that reader of the Globe can easily find the answer to his question. It is provided to him at length.
  33. the douglas from erie shore, Canada writes: Who decided democracy was needed and wanted in Afghanistan? Is it?
  34. G. Sam from Canada writes: When in Rome!

    The G&M is supposed to be CANADA'S NATIONAL NEWSPAPER! Just try to solve Canada's HOME problems.
  35. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: This is most damaging to Canada's image abroad. Shameful, really. The worst kind of hypocrisy, i.e. under the guise of humanitarian militarism. Could be expected. Ought to have been prevented.
  36. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: G. Sam from Canada writes: When in Rome! The G&M is supposed to be CANADA'S NATIONAL NEWSPAPER! Just try to solve Canada's HOME problems. -- THIS IS VERY MUCH, FAR TOO MUCH A HOME PROBLEM!!!
  37. Expert Eel from Canada writes: Scot Loucks from GTA, Canada writes:
    Expert Eel from Canada; Read some of the other posts and get enlightened

    What makes you think that I haven't read every post before adding my comment?

    Oh, right. you are a paid right wing troll.

    Personally, I find right wingers to be the laziest debaters. Here is the way it is and if you don't believe it, then go and research why I am right.

    Scot, do your own research and try to convince me
  38. Dark Green from WE CANADIANS HOSTEL, Cuba writes: All we need to do now is send the RCMP to help investigate!...
  39. old curmudgeon from Armenia writes: Why is it so difficult for so many of your correspondents to keep the issues separate? Are the Taliban nasty people? Yes. Should they be stopped? Yes. Does our society condone torture? No. Should it condone torture by others? No. Should those in charge turn people over knowing they will be tortured? No, if our 'principles' are to have any meaning. Does the need to catch the bad guys justify the mistreatment of the good guys? No. Is the current situation the fault of our soldiers? No, so don't drag them into this sorry mess. We got a lot of good press in the 70s from hiding the Americans from the depradations of the Iranians. Should we just have washed our hands of the situation and let the Iranians follow their own process (after all, they have the right to make their own laws, and who are we to disagree)? If not, why then are we willing to ignore mistreatment where those involved are just average Afghans? I really don't think anyone can justify the mistreatment of innocent people because mistreatment is part of their culture (or at least, the culture in which--through no fault of their own--they find themselves born). It appears that there are two approaches--the high road where our white, English-speaking ostensibly-Christian friends are involved, and the low road where the 'lesser' races are involved. And Scott--answer your own question--have you ever read the Koran? Doesn't look much different than the Bible to me.
  40. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Offshore Directional Driller, I would politely suggest you go sit on one of your drill bits, but then again I suspect you would like it.
  41. Michael Powers from Smiths Falls, Canada writes: Unfortunately, when we get involved in this type of country's problems, we find that there are few if any really good guys. The type of torture described here is barbaric by any measurement but it is being done by Afgans, against Afgans, not by Canadians. I will not list the crimes that these victims are accused of because it would be too long for this section.
    Some of the individuals submitting their comments here, think that it would be better if we packed our bags and went home. I guess that they pine for the good old days when women were taken to the sports stadium and shot for sexual activities that would be normal in Canada. During those same good old days, girls were not allowed to be educated, females had no rights and were just chattel.
    As a father with 2 daughters, I could never accept them being treated this way and I doubt that many females in Canada would accept it either.
  42. M K from Ottawa, Canada writes: Scot Louks, questioning as done in this article is not anti-Canadian. Ever. I don't see how it is so difficult to believe that Afghan intelligence agents are using brutal torture methods to obtain information. Why would exposing that be anti-Canadian? In the Canada I call home, this is a virtue.

    No support for anyone or anything should be unconditional. I support our troops but not when they condone torture.
  43. Satya Kama from Canadian Lane, India writes: 'We hold the Afghan government to a high standard.... It's 'my responsibility to make sure they are handled properly at our end and the Afghan end,' Mr. O'Connor said ... -- For Allah's sake, RESIGN! Resign NOW.
  44. J Law from Canada writes: Better option: Seeing that our troops are working to stop from being killed at the hands of the people they are killing or caturing then maybe the other option would be to just take no prisoners, just shoot all who are trying to kill our troops. That way maybe this whimpering bleeding heart G & M will not have this to hold over our troops heads.
    This newspaper and some others are constantly twisting this story in Afganistan to be what it is not. Our troops are not in Afganistan to kill people. They are there to help rebuild a country. The only time they go out and fight people is when those people are coming in and trying to kill our troops. And yet people Like Layton, Dion and this G & M paper would have the Canadian people to believe differently. What is the G & M's objective here? I know what is the matter with Taliban Jack; I know the Liberals are miffed at being pushed out of their rightful position as the rulers of Canada, but what is the objective of the G & M? It is certainly not in support of Canada.
  45. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: Michael Powers: Some of the individuals submitting their comments here, think that it would be better if we packed our bags and went home. I guess that they pine for the good old days when women were taken to the sports stadium and shot for sexual activities that would be normal in Canada. During those same good old days, girls were not allowed to be educated, females had no rights and were just chattel.
    As a father with 2 daughters, I could never accept them being treated this way and I doubt that many females in Canada would accept it either. -- I have a daughter too. But I will never accept to be in any way complicit with anything like what I have just read being done to human beings, in that article. I will never be complicit with anything like that being done to human beings in my name, as a woman and a mother. This is literally MONSTROUS!
  46. Expert Eel from Canada writes: Handing detainees over to Afghan authorities for torture condemns Canada to stand with EVERY other oppresive regime that casually tramples over human rights.

    This is a very dark moment in our nations History and we should think very hard about the message that we are sending to every future civilized Human Being that is to come.

    What will they think of us?
  47. M G from Canada writes: Satori Zen, you should also call for investigating all the soldiers's families and any CANADIAN who support the war effort in Afghanistan.
  48. Expert Eel from Canada writes: Scot Loucks from GTA, Canada writes: old curmudgeon from Armenia writes: Why is it so difficult for so many of your correspondents to keep the issues separate? Are the Taliban nasty people? Yes. Should they be stopped? Yes. Does our society condone torture? No. Should it condone torture by others? No.

    Sorry curmudgeon... that's where I stopped reading.

    CORRECTION Scot, you stopped reading when you felt disgusted by Dick and Jane in the first grade.
  49. Henry B from Galt, Canada writes: 'praised the Canadian soldiers for their politeness, their gentle handling of captives and their comfortable detention facility' - these are the words we need to digest. 2000 Canadian soldiers cannot change the country. There is no use gnashing our teeth over what happens to the worst of the worst over there at the hands of other Afghans when we hardly have the resources to keep even children out of harms way.
  50. Expert Eel from Canada writes: Scot, don't you think that it makes you a hypocrite for berating other posters for not rreading and paying attention too EVERY SINGLE WORD of the story and every post only to add in another post that you were too lazy to read past the second sentence of curmudgeon's reply?
  51. Malcolm Thistle from Toronto, Canada writes: Now watch all the Liberals blame this mistreatment on their own country. Why do we care for the treatment of Taliban detainees more than our own country. Political correctness rises above patriotism I guess, at least when it comes to Canada.
  52. Brian Miller from Oakville, Canada writes: I am a Canadian and South African citizen. I worked on a U.S. government project in the middle east for 9 months. Right there in the trenches. Canadians citizens need to come to grips with one fact. And they are currently hiding from the reality that it is possible. Being in the custody of the Canadians, inside and outside of Canada is a cruel fate in itself. So the title to this article is outrageously biased to the thinking that Canadian custody is sound and safe. Those in authority inside and outside of Canada's security and intelligence agencies are using the best and greatest psychological and physical abuses against suspects that equals the most aggressive and well hidden human rights abuses in the world.
  53. Brian Miller from Oakville, Canada writes: Canadian authorities are using a number of illegal interrogation and investigative methods that are by far the cruelest methods around. And they are directly using the best techniques to keep their actions hidden, out of sight and covert, but they are committing these acts. So my point is its a bit bizarre to think one is in good hands with the Canadians. It is by far the truth.
  54. janfromthe bruce from Canada writes: The rationalization on this board by many to condoning the abusive treatment of people detained by Canadian troops and sent to Afghan jails/prisons is beyond comphrension. Knowingly standing by and remaining complacent to the torture, mistreatment and abuse in prisons by Afghans is criminal.
    Canadian soldiers represent Canada and I do not condon this ill treament of any person. Blaming Afghans is crap as we are part of the problem when we stand down. It just reinforces my belief that we should get the troops out now.
  55. Andy Garrett President of The Parry Sound Brewing Co., LTD from West Palm Beach, United States writes: After all the vile anti Americanism and hatred for my country, president and people spewed on this site
    since 9-11, we read about Canadians enabling and suborning torture of poor defenseless islamic terrorists,
    homicide bombers and overall pillars of the local Afghan community. I just don't know where to begin; so I won't.
    Love to all. Andy
  56. Tim Bee from Canada writes: Get rid of Hillier and O'Connor. Where does the buck stop in this government?
  57. Only Canadian from Canada writes: What there are mean and evil people out there? What we, or the United States, aren't the catalyst for all of this unacceptable behaviour. What do you mean this is the norm??? Oh my!!! Yep, the world outside of Canada is a dangerous place with dangerous and cruel people. Ethics may have currency in Canada, but they don't in Afghanistan. What I find so funny is that this is Afghan treatment of Afghans. This is how they are treated. IF we are there or not. We can't expect anything more. Why just because a detainee was transfered by Canadian soldier they shouldn't be beaten too? Otherwise you have a two tiered system and we in Canada know that is completely inacceptable.
  58. Eli Charmane from Canada writes: So, the G&M interviews former Afghan prisoners and they complain of torture by their captors, surprise surprise! I get it, G&m and other bleading hearts think we should create 'club fed' type prisons for these poor helpless souls. Has G&M interviewed any non prisoners who survived Taliban rule before the war? What happens to those prisoners captured by the Taliban, has G&M intervied them? What about the Taliban bombs in schools, hospitals and public markets, should they get rewarded for these acts of terror. I say hang them as soon as you get them that way we'll move forward, live by the sword die by the sword, keep it simple. This is not conventional warfare, you all keep forgetting who these monsters are.
  59. Happily Retired from Canada writes: And we are surprised because-----------------?
  60. Brian Miller from Oakville, Canada writes: I'm afraid my comments to try and open up your minds to what I have to say is fruitless. Your garbage and emotional rebuttals are a waste. I never mentioned anything pro-Taliban nor anti-Canadian.

    In fact, the work I did was for the U.S. Government. I am the one with the U.S. Government identity badge not you guys.

    I am the one whose work was regarded as the best step forward in some things and this was the opinion of a U.S. government official.

    So youre judgements are blinding you and your comments are pointless.

    Maybe re-read my comments and sit and think about them.
  61. Chris Lalonde from Singapore writes: Yes, what's been reported is terrible even if the detainees were terrorists. However, does anyone think if Canada pulls out, things will get better? The torture should be investigated and federal government should try as much as possible to stop it. Canada has a better chance of helping Afghanistan while our troops are there. We have more clout to make things happen ...
  62. Cup of Tea from National, Canada writes:
    10 to 15 more years eh Chuck?

    In your dreams buddy.
  63. Andy Garrett President of The Parry Sound Brewing Co., LTD from West Palm Beach, United States writes: Brian Miller: Are you saying you are one of the brutal Canadian tortures who is committing these atrocities
    and war crimes that have so grossly been charged against the USA for the past 6 years? Do you not hold
    the supporters and financiers of 9-11, London, Madrid and other cities bombings, the mass murders based
    solely on a 7th century ideology?
  64. No offence, but....... from Halifax, Canada writes: To me this article is just visible support for the Taliban who chose their side in this war with a full open mind. This article makes me think there is nothing more to write a story about so the author writes about the terrible suffering of the Taliban. Get serious for God's sake this is a war and the Taliban are working overtime to kill our soldiers. We saw just recently what the Taliban do to their prisoners; they cut their heads off with butter knives. We have lost close to 60 true Canadians in that hell hole and we are supposed to worry about a little rough play to get info that may, just may, save a life of one of our soldiers. Anyone who cries over the treatment of the Taliban should be shipped off to the trenches in Afganistan for an extended period of time. Maybe they will get hit with an axe on the head like one of are boys did while sipping tea. One way to beat the taliban is kill everyone that is caught and eventually their supply will run out!! They are cruel, controlling killers whose full purpose in life is to kill our guys and gals along with our friends. I cheer with total joy everytime a taliban is wacked, whether it be done with a gun, bat, knife or pierce of rope!
  65. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    No matter what side of the political spectrum one resides, I am still trying to figure out the goals and objectives of the G&M concerning this story? Make the government look bad? Make the Canadian Armed Forces look bad? A subliminal stance to plant seeds of doubt in the Canadian mind to get the troops home? What?
  66. Michael Powers from Smiths Falls, Canada writes: Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada - It is easy to sit in the comfort of your home, reading the News and commenting on-line about the terrible events happening around the world. In this enviroment, it is easy to say - 'This is literally MONSTROUS' or 'I would never do this'.
    You will never know what you will do to protect your love ones until you are put in that position. I think that you would find that you would do anything to protect your daughter, even kill if that was necessary. Take a look at her and ask yourself, what would you do if it were absolutely necessary.
    The NDP take a principaled position on many of these subjects and perhaps you should join them in their stand against our becoming as bad as our enemies. Thats your choice.
  67. Scot Loucks from GTA, Canada writes: Good questions Mr. Carriere.
  68. David Le Gallez from Ottawa, Canada writes: On one hand this torture, if it is in fact occurring (It was never proven that Arar was actually tortured), the Canadian troops should simply stop handing prisoners over to the Afghan police.

    On the other hand, I find it interesting that there is now the outcry about such abuses against suspected enemy combatants yet, when similar, and worse, abuses were committed against Afgan women and non conformists by the Taliban there was not a voice to be heard from the politically correct left. I wonder why it was only us evil right wing conservatives that spoke out about such abuses at that time?

    If Canada, and everyone else, were to get out of Afghanistan (as the left is demanding) what do you think the chances are that these abuses would stop? I think it is very likely that the Taliban will regain power and ensure that women are brutally put back in their place as the Taliban sees it.

    That is a nice set of double standards you guys have.
  69. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Canadians are shocked and horrified over the methods employed by the methods employed by the Afghan government and its agencies to protect itself? Of course they are forgetting completely that the Afghan government and its people are in a struggle for their very existence against an enemy that would not hesitate, if the situation were reversed, inflict far worse upon them. Come on people…wake up. The world is harsh and the Afghans are in a fight for their very survival. Stop imposing your elitist, morally superior, liberal attitude onto a situation for which you have absolutely no comprehension. In fact I admire their restraint for there are far worse methods of torture out there than described in his article.
  70. Eye Sore from Dog Pound, Alberta, Canada writes: By handing over Afghan prisoners to the Afghan police authorities, where
    they know torture is to be used on them, Canadian forces are complicit in
    war crimes.

    After the Nuremberg trials, claiming that 'I was just following orders' will be no defence for being a conduit to illegal acts.
  71. Rex's Experiment from T-Dot, Canada writes: What should Canada do with them? Send them to Canada where the Liberal judges let them loose on the streets in case there was a violation of rights? As for war crimes, we are not fighting a nation in war we are fighting a terrorist faction and I don't think war crimes is applicable there.
  72. Paul Malouf from Montreal, Canada writes: To answer R. Carriere question: The Globe
  73. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: Andy Garrett : After all the vile anti Americanism and hatred for my country, president and people spewed on this site since 9-11, we read about Canadians enabling and suborning torture of poor defenseless islamic terrorists, homicide bombers and overall pillars of the local Afghan community. I just don't know where to begin; so I won't. Love to all. Andy -- ... So I'll complete from your beginning... We, Canadians, must take full responsibility for what has been happening in our name in Afghanistan. Many of us do. Yet what has been happening there that we have been complicit with, does not change anything about the US. It only goes to show America's worst diseases are extermely contagious. Which is WHY, so many of us, Canadians, have made the diagnostics you refer to, have always been and still are against any Canadian military presence in Afghanistan. I am one of those Canadians.
  74. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: f c from Canada writes: I'm siorry, are we supposed to show sympathy for the people that killed our soldiers. I daer the G&M to deliver this newspaper to one of the familes who lost a loved one to these people......you mighht not like the react -- This has nothing to do with sympathy, everything to do with our being human. We need to preserve OUR HUMANITY. If our troops lose their humanity in the process, they've lost not only the war; they lost everything. If their families lose their humanity in the process, they've lost not only their loved one, not only the war, they've lost all. If we lose our humanity in the process, we've lost the war and all.
  75. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: This is a surprise? When you are allied with an incompetent, corrupt, self-serving, and criminal government like Karzai's....what do you expect? Like most nations in that part of the world, the use of torture on their enemies, either real or percieved comes naturally.
  76. Eye Sore from Dog Pound, Alberta, Canada writes: OK, Rex's Experiment from T-Dot, if Canadians cannot or should not be tried for complicity in war crimes, then let it be for crimes against humanity.

    Canada has signed on to conventions against the torture of prisoners; prisoners in this case who may have simply got caught up in a dragnet by being in the wrong place at the wrong time -- like, say, those 32 murdered innocents at Virgina Tech a week ago.
  77. M K from Canada writes: Why are so many here quick to believe that everyone who was arrested or tortured were necessarily Taliban? There hasn't been a trial. We don't know people's backgrounds. Sure, some can be scum-of-the-Earth Taliban militants fresh from a NATO kill, but others can be just picked up off the street by a frustrated Afghan policeman.

    Those who use 'liberal' as a swear word seem to see life in black and white. There are more than only enemies or allies. I'm sorry Bill Thompson but I totally have to call you out. You can't support a war on the ethical grounds of helping a society get a democratic footing then turn the other cheek when its agents commit atrocities. It's a morally and logically irreconcilable position. Yeah, we don't understand what they are going through, but it's certainly not 'survival.' Afghanistan has been in a fairly regular state of civil war and intervention for most of its history. The very state of Afghanistan is a manufactured containment of various tribes with old animosities and allegiances who seemingly don't forget easily.

    Sure, dismiss my arguments as liberal tripe, but if standing against torture is considered something unsavoury than I question your sense of morality, not mine.

    Oh, and David Le Gallez, you are absolutely right.
  78. Gilles Hudicourt from Moncton (today), Canada writes: This is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait till some of the prisoners handed over by Canadians troops to the Afghans, and now listed as 'missing', are found in a shallow grave with their hand bound in the back with tie raps.
  79. mr motoc from Canada writes: People in authority engage in torture NOT to 'gain valuable intelligence information,' but for only one purpose: because they are perverts who derive sexual pleasure from the process of torturing others.

    No wonder that Communists, religious fanatics, and right-wing morons defend the practice.
  80. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: Michael Powers : Henriette Heroux - It is easy to sit in the comfort of your home... to say - 'This is literally MONSTROUS' or 'I would never do this'. You will never know what you will do to protect your love ones until you are put in that position. I think that you would find that you would do anything to protect your daughter, even kill if that was necessary. Take a look at her and ask yourself, what would you do if it were absolutely necessary. -- With all due respect, no Canadian is in Afghanistan to protect his daughter. The Afghans who do what is described in that article are not, in so doing, protecting their own children. What this article is about has nothing to do with protecting one's loved ones. To simply assume it does, is by no means convincing. Arguments are missing. As a matter of fact, arguments have been missing since before Canada was even involved in Afghanistan. That adventure was never debated as it should have been, in Canada. That is the first scandal, the first source of what has become a tragedy. -- As for it being easy to say 'This is literally MONSTROUS', wherever one sits or moves, I submit you are quite wrong, given so few Canadians seem prepared to do so, while so many others are busy trying to defend the indefensible, to justify the unjustifiable, to humanize the inhuman, and to make acceptable to us whiat is nothing but a revolting state of affairs.
  81. Gilles Hudicourt from Moncton (today), Canada writes: David Le Gallez from Ottawa, you wish to think that this abuse of women began when the Taliban took power? The Communist government supported by the Soviets was a secular the government that really promoted the equality of the sexes and fought religious integrisim. The Western Backed Mujahedin who fought the Soviets with US, German, Pakistani, Iranian and Saudi money blew up schools, murdered teachers and kept Afghan from sending their girls to schools, but no-one ever talked about it because it was all ok in the name of fighting Soviets. Reagan called them 'Freedom Fighters'. Many of those people are mow in the Karzai government and others became Taliban, but none have women's rights, religious freedom or secular government on their agenda.
  82. jiri Z from Canada writes: The Alliance forces have to stop taking prisoners, period.

    There is not enough 5 star hotels in the Middle East to hold them. Besides all the rooms are booked by the Democrats and filled by peace activists from all over the world.
  83. Henriette Heroux from Decent Town, Canada writes: Green Jerry from Canada writes: This story does my heart good. I like knowing the scum who kill or attack our soldiers are 'tortured'. -- Well then enjoy! Enjoy!! I'm off.
  84. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: MK: You are absolutely right and I stand exposed. However I said I understand their methods. I never said I approve of them. On the contrary the Canadian soldiers are setting a fine example of conduct as everyone agrees. What this article illustrates is where we are at with respect to bringing the Afghan forces along to our standards. They have made progress but still have a long way to go. I continue to support the mission as progress is being made. There may even come a time when the Afghan forces do not see the need to apply such methods of torture against their enemies. Don’t forget however, we employed not too dissimilar tactics in WW II against our enemies&8230;a scant 60 years ago.
  85. Carolyn Hammond from Toronto, Canada writes: Does anyone know exactly whom we write letters to in government to voice our feelings about this situation? I intend to exercise my freedom of speech and let our government know my vote is at stake if this conduct continues.
  86. robert birks from Ottawa, Canada writes: Guess what. The subjects are Afghanistan nationals ( or foreign jihadis ), in Afghanistan, being subjected by Afghanistan nationals to treatements normal to Afghanistan military and police forces, and as expected by those being subjected to the treatment.

    Thinks you can successfully impose western/christian values in such an environment? Grow up.
  87. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    This is all so confusing for all of us so very comfortable in our homes. This situation is not a question of pro or anti war.

    The question becomes, so what do we do? We capture someone not knowing who or what he is-killer or innocent-turn him over-then somehow get blamed for torture, or Afghni torture, according to this most curious G&M article.

    So I ask, from the comfort of our homes where we know we will not get shot at or killed by a roadside bomb, what do we do?
  88. Allan Eizinas from Simcoe, Canada writes: .
    I have no doubt that the Afghan 'interrogation techniques' are far more effective and efficient than anything that the Canadians might try.

    Unfortunately, I doubt that those who have been tortured and abused can differentiate between the peaceful mandate of the Canadian soldier who captured them and the abusive pain inflicted by their torturers.

    I doubt if those who have been tortured and return to their 80 member families in the villages will be singing the praises of the Canadians. So much for winning the hearts and minds of that group.
  89. John Gilks from Canada writes: The posters defending torture completely miss the point. They claim that the Canadian forces are protecting 'democracy' and 'human rights' so that girls can go to school etc. Rubbish! We have been suckered into a tribal war of the kind which has been endemic in Afghanistan for centuries. We are spending Canadian lives and Canadian funds to support one lot of murderous, corrupt, torturing tribal warlords against another lot. When will we learn what the British in the 19th century and the USSR in the 20th learnt the hard way?
  90. Diogenes the Cynic from Canadian Warriors' Beach, Greece writes: Gilles Hudicourt from Moncton (today): The Western Backed Mujahedin who fought the Soviets with US, German, Pakistani, Iranian and Saudi money blew up schools, murdered teachers and kept Afghan from sending their girls to schools, but no-one ever talked about it because it was all ok in the name of fighting Soviets. Reagan called them 'Freedom Fighters'. -- Thank you for putting this conflict in perspective and for reminding us of the role the West played, in Afghanistan, in the recent past.
  91. Tim Bee from Canada writes: ....R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    No matter what side of the political spectrum one resides, I am still trying to figure out the goals and objectives of the G&M concerning this story? Make the government look bad? Make the Canadian Armed Forces look bad? A subliminal stance to plant seeds of doubt in the Canadian mind to get the troops home? What?....

    Inform the Canadian public maybe?