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Afghan withdrawal motion defeated

BRODIE FENLON AND TENILLE BONOGUORE

Globe and Mail Update and Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 2:12 PM EDT 24/04/07

NDP sides with Tories to defeat Liberal motion for troop withdrawal by 2009 ...Read the full article

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  1. Popeye Dillon from North Vancouver, Canada writes: I support the mission but we do need to clarify our length of stay in Afghanistan. Too many rumours and innudendo are flying around, and determining our presence will help NATO press the issue to either have a stable Afghan government supported by their own people or a withdrawal. Our troops need to know our long term plan now and in the future!
  2. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Move along....nothing to see here....just political posturing on Dion's part. The bill is doomed to defeat (looks like Jack's turn to prop up the government in order to avoid the dreaded election) and Dion can go back into hibernation re: Afghanistan until the Taliban blows up more troops.
  3. Jed McGarry from Canada writes: An exit date is definitely in order. I just hope the NDP don't vote against this bill just because they want immediate withdrawal, something which would not bode well for that country.
  4. John Baird Is Nothing But A Loud-Mouth from Edmonton, Canada writes: Set the date and get out of there. There is nothing to measure success, and there never will be, when you're fighting 'terrorists' rather than a nation. You can't eradicate terror....it is impossible!
  5. John Russell from Houston, TX, United States writes: Canada is doing a good job of battling these terrorists. The good people in this world appreciate the work Canada is doing. No matter the political stripe, the Taliban/Terrorists must be defeated and contained rather than killing innocent people again.
  6. TERRI ROBSON from kimberley, Canada writes: The harper Government is nothing more than the whitehouse executive branch's lap dog. Considering we have now purchased 100 tanks and 17 hercs and have no idea what happens to detainees when handed over to the puppet Afghan Government, all Canadians have the right to a full inquiry into where exactly our TAXPAYERS dollars are going. The harper Government was not given a mandate by the Citizens of Canada to hand over the control of our military to the U.S. vis a vis the Security and Prosperity Parnership,in fact I would guess that this harper Government has handed over Canadian Security or it has been absorbed into the HOMELAND SECURITY of the U.S., the deadline for withdrawl needs to stay at February 2008,and not one second longer,this is the way to support our troops or stand the chance of having them implicated in torure whether it be true or not.
  7. John Baird Is Nothing But A Loud-Mouth from Edmonton, Canada writes: The only definitive thing to come as a result of fighting and dying in Afghanistan is the excuse for the conservatives to spend billions of dollars on useless defence equipment.
  8. Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: Civlian Deaths (collateral damage) in Afghanistan

    For some reason we never hear about the number of civilian deaths in Afghanistan caused by our soldiers.

    Why is that??

    Could it be that we've not being told all of the story??

    What does this tell us about ourWorld
  9. ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada writes: Here are the numbers of troop deaths in Afghanistan per 10 million capita for each country:

    USA 10.5, Canada 16.6, UK 8.8, Denmark 5.6, Spain 5.0, Netherlands 3.7, Germany 2.2, Sweden 2.2, Norway 2.2, Romania 1.8, France 1.5, Italy 1.5, Portugal 1.0, Australia 0.5.

    All the other 24 NATO/ISAF nations 0.0.

    We have almost twice the number of deaths per capita of the next US-assisting country, the UK. Canada's 2500 troops make up about 10% of the non-American troops, but we have 30% of the non-American deaths.

    We've also had 63% more deaths per capita in Afghanistan than the Americans themselves! The US invaded Afghanistan and NATO is only there to assist on their behalf, ostensibly for 9/11. So why are we taking it for them in Afghanistan? So they can better trash Iraq with 6 times more troops than they have in Afghanistan?

    We've more than done our part for them in this war that has outlasted each of the World Wars.

    Our 2500 troops are just 1.6% of the 152,000 troops they have in Iraq, and just 8.3% of the ADDITIONAL 30,000 troop 'surge' that Bush wants to send to Iraq. So when we leave, all the Americans have to do is shift a small 1.4-1.6% of their troops one country over from Iraq to Afghanistan.
  10. Don Adams from Canada writes: Hunter J, who cares? If they were in the way, or sheltering or supporting Taliban, or were perhaps Taliban sympathizers, it really doesn't matter how many died. How many over there are REALLY innocent?

    I'd really love to see this bill fail.... it's just political posturing on the part of Dion...... he's DESPARETLY searching for issues.
  11. mogens bay from Canada writes: this is posturing. They do not need to waste time on this. Maybe next summer.
    Call a non confidence motion Mr. Dion or are you chicken?
  12. Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: That is exactly the question

    All we ever hear about is troop deaths. We kept totally in the dark about the collateral damage that our troops are causing. There has to be some.

    It is like civilian lives in Afghanistan do not count.

    So what does this tell us about what is going on over there ?
  13. A typical Left Winger Liberal from Socialist cesspool Toronto, Canada writes: mogens bay from Canada writes: this is posturing. They do not need to waste time on this. Maybe next summer.
    Call a non confidence motion Mr. Dion or are you chicken?

    Dion is Chicken! for sure.
  14. Matt Stiles from Vancouver, Canada writes: It's time the real reasons for the invasion of Afghanistan are exposed. It has absolutely nothing to do with winning hearts and minds, letting little girls go to school or defeating 'terrorism' (which is of course absurd - you cannot declare war on a tactic).

    This war is about NATO and the US maintaining strategic control over Central Asia and it's energy resources, while Russia is weak and lacking influence. Read about how the US has installed permanent bases scattering central asia under the cover of their Afghan war. The cold war continues...

    If you would like to read some actual journalism on the subject (as opposed to the narrow-minded, short-memory garbage we are fed daily) check out www.atimes.com. These are some of the most knowledgable people on the subject I have found.

    Canada should be no part of this. Bring our beloved troops home and spare their families the devastation of losing a loved one for no apparent cause.
  15. Independent Conservative from Your town, Canada writes: Bring the troops home. The Afghan people and government have contempt for us and do not want us there, so lets save a few billion dollars and get on with it. I am sick of this government wasting my tax dollars with untendered contracts on more useless equipment like Tanks and jumbo aircraft for an endless war.
  16. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: For the 1st time in our history the civilian and military leadership of the Canadian Armed Forces are deeply implicated in human rights abuses. There is sufficient evidence already collected to charge both O'Conner and Hillier with war crimes. A sad day for Canada. We need to get out of Afghanistan now, not two years from now, which both the Liberals and Conservatives are pushing for.
  17. W M from Canada writes: While I think it makes sense to put more pressure on other NATO countries to step up, I'm not sure this is going to do it and it sounds like it has more to do with playing domestic opposition politics than ensuring success in Afghanistan. Moreover, I heard on the radio that the NDP is actually going to vote with the government, because they want the troops out immediately. I am opposed to fixing a pull out date, but the NDP's claiming that they are going to vote WITH the government, because they are even more opposed to its policy than the other parties has got to be the most convolutedly self-serving logic that I have ever heard.
  18. Rob C from Toranna, Canada writes: ...eh?

    What's with tall this talk about a vote? My understanding was that the mission was extended by two years to 2009 and that would be the pullout time frame.

    Why are we having a vote on a given date? Correct me if I am in error in my thinking here...

    But seriously- hold their feet to the fire if they want to go over that extended mandate- but right now this just sounds like political pandering by all the opposition parties for bringing it up again.
  19. Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: The problem with these numbers of innonce civilians kill in Afghanistan may be the source.

    We see that in Iraq where the numbers given by civilians agencies on the ground doing simple things like adding morgue records gives a number between 400,000 and 900,000 since the last invasion verses the more official numbers that are less than one tenth as great.

    What I do not see is much debate about what our troops are doing as far as the real total of civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

    I think this is actually a very important issue that the corporate controlled media may be deliberately hiding.

    Canadains have a right to know
  20. W M from Canada writes: Duncan Munro - get over it Duncan. I am not overly enamoured of these guys, but what exactly do you suggest we do with Afghan prisoners (send them to Canada, build Canadian prison camps in Afghanistan, releases them, ...? I'm not saying that we can't do better, but there are no simple answers and making outrageously over the top accusations against our own troops only strengthens and encourages the Taliban ... and I would hope that you might agree that they are far worse, both in terms of what they are doing to Afghans today and what they would do, if ever they returned to power. Perfection isn't one of our choices (it is not clear that you recognize that).
  21. Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: Hunter J from Sudbury, Canada writes: That is exactly the question

    All we ever hear about is troop deaths. We kept totally in the dark about the collateral damage that our troops are causing. There has to be some.

    It is like civilian lives in Afghanistan do not count.

    So what does this tell us about what is going on over there ?

    ------------------------------

    You ought to research exactly what Canadian soldiers are doing there. Collateral damage from what ? Airplanes ?
  22. nick oliver from Halifax, NS, Canada writes: to don adams: if no one over there is innocent, why are we picking sides? who are we building the schools and roads for? afghans or western companies? if the entire population is hostile to our presence there, how is there any hope of 'winning'? if we follow your logic, karzai is as much a taliban as anyone else, so why are we propping up a government filled with guilty terrorists? that makes us collaborators, not enemies of terrorism. if no one is innocent and they are all guilty and should be killed indiscriminately, then we should not have gone at all. Canada was told we were going to 'help' the country 'rebuild', not slaughter everyone. you don't even seem to be bothered by the fact that there have been a lot of canadian deaths due to friendly fire, or are they the only innocent people you see in afghanistan?
  23. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: In WW2, the Nazis were committing crimes that were so monstrous that they almost defied description, but Canada never used Nazi criminality to justify a decision to also do the same. Now the defenders of the Afghanistan mission want to justify our war crimes by saying the 'Taliban are worse', this only points out the general hopelessness of our situation in Afghanistan; an unwinnable war that is dragging our military into a cesspool of corruption and human rights abuses. We need to get out now.
  24. Hunter J from sudbury, Canada writes: Actually when you think of it sending Taliban prisoners here is not that bad a suggestion

    During World War II when transportation costs were much higher than today we did that with Germany POW's

    Why not for the Afghans ?
  25. Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: The morons here think this 'motion' to stick to the agreed upon withdrawl date is a bill. That will tell you what level of understanding they have of our Parliament. Very little, but they are real good at being brown nosing cheerleaders for the COns and Harper.

    The truth is the motion was brought forward after the moron O'COnnor started talking about 10 and 15 year wars. Knowing the COns couldn't be trusted means honest parliamentarians need to solidify the original COns withdrawal date they agreed to. Let some other NATO entities take over the combat portin of the mission after 09. Canadians have given enough in combat here.

    What we should do after that date is to continue to support and aid Afgans in re-making their country but no more combat troops.
  26. Stephen Ostash from Canada writes: The amount of ignorance that is in some of the comments here is amazing. To Terri Robson and the rest of you out there who say the government is wasting money on new vehicles and equipment, I no longer have a few friends because we where using still using the Iltis when Afghanistan mission started. So, from myself and the military family who actually put our lives in harms way, I assure you there spending is not useless. As for the tanks, I will bet non of you even own a car half as old as the tanks our armored men are using, with no A/C in them, try sitting in a steel box with 80lbs of gear on for 8 hours and tell me that they don’t need new tanks. When will you people at least separate you distaste for this government the welfare of us troops!
  27. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Duncan Monroe...well if you're going to pursue 'War Crimes' charges why not start with the guys who put us in Afghanistan, put us into combat, negotiated and approved the prisoner transfer protocol?...that would be...Jean Cretien, Paul Martin and Bill Graham. I say they ought to be in testifying before the World Court in the Hague before we go after Harper and O'Connor. What's good for the goose and all...or is your view slightly jaded by partisanship?
  28. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Hunter J...because they'd all claim refugee status and be granted the right to stay; lest they be tortured by their Taliban compadres upon return.
  29. Greg Calgary from Calgary, Canada writes: The Taliban no longer needs spys to infiltrate NATO. They just need to subscribe to the G M. Nice work Dion you idiot.
  30. David Griffith from Nova Scotia, writes: Umm...since when were wars...'scheduled'?? I can see the headline now: 'Afghan Conflict Set to End in Feb. '09'.
    --------------------
    And Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada : 'The morons here think this 'motion' to stick to the agreed upon withdrawl date is a bill. That will tell you what level of understanding they have of our Parliament. Very little, but they are real good at being brown nosing cheerleaders for the COns and Harper.'
    --------------------
    Ah, vern is back with his 'If you dont support the Grit way, you are a moron' diatribe. Vern you really do give yourself way too much credit in the intelligence dept. Hate to break it to ya vern, but one can* be Canadian...and *smart ...and NOT a Liberal. What a revelation, eh?
  31. Pete Kauchak from Cascadia, Canada writes: This motion is completely irresponsible. We don't know what is going to happen over the next 2 years. We should wait and make a decision collectively with our allies when the time comes - not betray them.
  32. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: Harry, I tend to agree...but Day, O'Conner and Hillier are running the show right now, and they are the ones who are letting the transfers continue.

    Afghanistan is a country the size of Texas with a population of 32 million, including 6 million men of military age. The idea that 2500 Cdns can make difference in a country of this size and population is ludicrous, yet Canada spends more to support these 2500 soldiers than Afghanistan spends on its entire military. Canada, with a population of 11.7 million, went from a military of less than 10,000 in 1939 to over one million in 4 years, yet we are told that after 6 years the Afghan military can barely muster 100,000 men in uniform. The Afghan government and their USA backers don't seem very serious about creating an Afghan military able to stand on its own, but then considering the amount of hardware this war is allowing NATO to purchase, it seems that the profit motive may be delaying the growth of the ANA...
  33. David Griffith from Nova Scotia, writes: Pete Kauchak from Cascadia, Canada writes: This motion is completely irresponsible. We don't know what is going to happen over the next 2 years. We should wait and make a decision collectively with our allies when the time comes - not betray them.
    ------------------------
    Exactly! Until such time that we become psychic and can predict future events, what rubbish to expect us to plan years in advance. Juvenile.

    Stephane Dion is not a leader
  34. Pete Kauchak from Cascadia, Canada writes: David Griffith from Nova Scotia,

    Having said that, I don't understand the government's reluctance to rework the agreement with the Afghans so that we have the right to inspect detainees - like Britain.
  35. Mail Man from Toronto, Canada writes: I like the game these guys play. They check the pulse in the house to make sure that the others guys won't vote against the government. Once they confirm this, they posture and make a lot of noise, create phony motions and vote against the government, knowing all along that the government will not fall. If only a funny thing could happen, one of the other parties change their mind and vote for one of these stupid motions, 'accidentally' toppling the government. Suddenly we would be in an election. Then everybody will be running scared with one guy saying, 'it's not fair, dis was not supposed to happen, I was not ready to take on Arpur yet'. 'You tink its easy fighting an election?' I was not ready!!
  36. Nick B. from Canada writes: Independent Conservative - their government doesn't want us there? Odd. Hamid Karzai was just over here thanking us for the vital contribution we're making there, and we're there at the request of his government. The Afghan people don't want us there? Seems to conflict with what my friends over there are experiencing, as well as a variety of documentaries and the like. Tell me, when you were in Afghanistan, what did people tell you as to why they don't want us there?
  37. Fiona Hammond from Ottawa, writes: 'Don Adams from Canada writes: Hunter J, who cares? If they were in the way, or sheltering or supporting Taliban, or were perhaps Taliban sympathizers, it really doesn't matter how many died. '

    And if they weren't?
  38. anderson Stevenson from Canada writes: Of course Karzai wants us ther we're propping up his sick government. One thing Canada doesn't need is a foreign or military policy formulated by ground troops. Fighting in Afghanistan doesn't make any one of you military people more Canadian than anyone else.
  39. garlick toast from mill village, Canada writes: the war is unwinable.we went to provide protection for developmental workers[roads and schools].now we are in the middle of a civil war and quite possibly committing acts contrary to the geneva convention.we need to get out.it's that or perhaps one day end up on the wrong side of a war crimes tribunal.
  40. Kathleen Degelder from Kelowna B.C., Canada writes: Political posturing in Canada is the same as in the USA when it comes to Iraq or Afghanistan.
  41. Trillian Rand from Canada writes: While Mr Harper and our new government take much pride in propping up a government that thinks basic human rights are a new and strange idea, it seems many Canadians do not.

    Considering this plan to rehabilitate Afghanistan could go on for centuries, why aren't we demanding NATO put us on a rotation? We've done our time at the front. Put someone else there and let us get back to rebuilding infrastructure for ten years while someone else takes the pointy end.

    Just a thought.
  42. Barrie Hebb from Edmonton, Canada writes: “Basically the vote is going to be: Do you tell the enemy the exact day you are going to leave or do you not? It is an interesting debate that is going to take place,&8221; Mr. Day said was written int he above article. What nonsense. Can Mr. Day tell us who the enemy is, why we are there? Why should Afghans lose their lives as a result of Canadian actions in Afghanistan? When was the last time Afghanistan attacked another country? What is the end goal and how is this option the best to serve these interests? I do not see it so naively as Mr Day puts it - do we tell the enemy our departure date? This 'government,' and I use the term very loosely for this current regime, day by Day shows us that they have no one in the ruling party who knows how to run things, but spend, that is easy.
  43. R M from Regina, Canada writes: No more voting Liberal for this guy. What a bunch of opportunists. There are two ways to run a country: leading and following. Leading demands sometimes doing what is unpopular because it is the right way, following demands sometimes doing the popular thing even though it isn't right. I guess we now know who the leaders aren't.
  44. Jason Roy from Central Nova, Canada writes: Vern MacPherson, O'Connor did not talk about 10-15 year wars, but Afghanistan and SIMILAR committments over the next 10-15 years. TERRI ROBSON from kimberley, Canada writes: 'The harper Government is nothing more than the whitehouse executive branch's lap dog. Considering we have now purchased 100 tanks and 17 hercs and have no idea what happens to detainees when handed over to the puppet Afghan Government, all Canadians have the right to a full inquiry into where exactly our TAXPAYERS dollars are going. The harper Government was not given a mandate by the Citizens of Canada to hand over the control of our military to the U.S. vis a vis the Security and Prosperity Parnership,in fact I would guess that this harper Government has handed over Canadian Security or it has been absorbed into the HOMELAND SECURITY of the U.S., the deadline for withdrawl needs to stay at February 2008,and not one second longer,this is the way to support our troops or stand the chance of having them implicated in torure whether it be true or not.' Terri Robson, Canada purchased 4 C-17 heavy lift aircraft, not 17 'hercs'. What are you babbling about with regards to the SPP anyway? This agreement was signed in 2005 by PM Martin, President Fox and President Bush; so MArtin did not have a mandate to do what you think has been done either; if it was ever done to begin with. Back to adjusting your tinfoil hat and looking overhead for unmarked black helicopters.
  45. anderson Stevenson from Canada writes: We're not telling the enemy what date we're leaving ; we're telling NATO what date. They can find a replacement if the this is such an important mission. If no one steps up then maybe Canada ought to consider why; Why it finds this such an important mission and shows less regard for its troops than other nations.
  46. Andrew E from Canada writes: Could this be the motion that will trigger the election Dion so desperately wants?
  47. Humphrey Pennyworth from Canada writes: The concept of openly declaring the date that we intend to stop fighting the enemy is one that I find ludicrous. In war, there are some things that are better kept confidential. This is one of them.
  48. I R from Canada writes: One can only hope this will bring down the government.
  49. L.B. MURRAY from Canada writes: NATO has more than thirty (30) countries in Afghanistan.

    CANADA has done far more than its share in the worst part of Afghanistan.

    TIME FOR OTHER countries to step in as soon as Canada declares 'Mission Accomplished' and IT IS MISSION ACCOMPLISHED FOR OUR CANADIAN TROOPS.
    Let the others do their share in the worst part of Afghanistan.

    May God bring our brave troops back to Canada safe and sound.

    Thank you.
  50. Graham Hanlon from Brampton, Canada writes: This should only serve to remind everyone what a bunch of hypocrites the federal liberals truly are. It's nothing but a cheap and cynical political ploy to esnure that Mr. Dion gets to wrap himself up in the flag of pacifism and to surround his party with little white doves. What a bunch of morons, do you think the Taleban don't read about this garbage. Can you not even speculate that perhaps they may use this to take advantage of the situation. It's shameful and disgusting and demonstrates that Mr. Dion is not fit to lead this country. Remember, these same clowns were the ones who decided to put our soldiers in Afghanistan in the first place. Remember, it was these same clowns who supported an expanded role for our military. Of course this is the same leader who proposed bringing Taleban prisoners to Canada. This man's not fit to lead a class full of kindegarten kids.
  51. Zach Fitzgerald from Toronto, Canada writes: Let me guess, the vote will fail with both Libs and Cons voting against withdrawl. The Libs are only pretending to be against the war since this is their role. I mean how stupid do these politicians think we are? The Libs voted to send them their in the first place and what, now they changed their minds??? The truth is that both parties are bought and paid for by corporate interests. If Canada were a real democracy, we would have a referendum (as Switzerland does) on such a contentious issue. Of course if we did this, the troops would be withdrawn before u could say Bin Laden. So dont hold your breath waiting for withdrawl, we ll be there in 2027.
  52. L.B. MURRAY from Canada writes: Zach Fitzgerald, I agree with you 100% on this one:

    ''If Canada were a real democracy, we would have a referendum (as Switzerland does) on such a contentious issue. Of course if we did this, the troops would be withdrawn before u could say Bin Laden. ''

    Exactly. A 6-hour last-minute ''debate'' ordered by a foreign leader (i.e. .darthChaney-GWB), is NOT a debate. Even more so when our troops are sent to the worst part of Afghanistan.

    And don't tell us ''We're bringing Democracy to Afghanistan'', Mr. Harper. DEMOCRACY starts at home, right here in Canada. That 6-hour thingy had Rovian footprints all over it. Intelligent people know it. And what happened to ''finding Bin Laden dead or alive'' which Mr Bush was begging for? and later said he didn't care about Bin Laden...and didn't care about no wmd's in Iraq...he even put on a comedy skit on tv for all to see...Bush laughing and joking while looking for wmd's under his White House desk...

    DISGUSTING beyond words.
  53. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: The question is - why must Canadians die for helping America in their illegal wars? Stop trying to fool people that we are helping the Afghans; these people have said recently that they prefer to have the Taliban back because at least they had security and stability. Just as the Iraqis are now sure that they were definitely better off under Sadaam; at least they had clean water and electricity besides stability! Why do you think that Canada is smarter than Germany and France? Tony Blair went along with Bush because Bush promised him to make peace between Israel and Palestine; poor disillusioned Tony! And now he is going on May 9th as he just cannot wait any longer for George to honour that promise.
  54. Sam M. from Montreal, Canada writes: Is anyone here saying we are not doing our share in Afghanistan? Nope the majority seem to think we are doing more thsan our share.

    So what is so terribly wrong with setting a date and saying to those other Nato allies who refuse to do the dirty work WE ARE OUTTA HERE ON THIS DATE PREPARE TO TAKE OVER!!!!

    THIS IS A NATO BACKED MISSION trouble is NOT ALL NATO countries are pulling their weight!

    I find it pathetic the right wingers here actually think we should stay and do the fighting for the unwilling!!!

    THAT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME!

    I'm not saying we pull out just go up north and join the unwilling nato allies!!!!

    We will return when they do their turn in the south!

    WHY ARE YOU RIGHT WINGERS AGAINST THAT IDEA?
  55. James Tod from Vancouver, Canada writes: I find it troubling, that I as a Canadian do not know exactly what is going on in Afghanistan. What I find even more troubling is that every time our Minister of Defence speaks, I do not feel I can take him at his word. Likewise, when Harper speaks on this issue, with O'connor at his side, how can I take those comments at face value. Has their been a declaration of war? Our brave soldiers are dying in numbers we have not seen in fifty years. Are the soldiers responsible for reconstruction, how is Canada helping rebuild the country? Is the Afghan police and government corrupt? I have read reports of the international airport shipping drugs abroad.

    I want to know the answers, but how can I trust the word of Harper/O'connor when they seem to continually play a game of dodge and delay. We need to get ourselves in order before making any further commitments to this mission.
  56. Robin Adams from Ottawa, Canada writes: Regrettably Duncan, its not the first time in our history. For some more sordid Canadian history read up a little on the Boer war. As part of the British empire we participated in that and as part of that appalling campaign the world's first concentration camps were invented. The historical grievances caused to the Afrikaaners were one of the major motivators to Apartheid. Another sad chapter of our participation in Imperial wars that has led to nothing but tragedy. Odd how history repeats itself.
  57. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: This is not a Canadian war/ it is a Nato mission. Time for other countries to pick up the load. This is a waste of money and Canadian lives. Until troops can get into Pakistan and close down the escape and re armament route/ the mission is doomed to failure.
    Canada can leave some troops to reform the government if such action is possible. A government that supports torturing prisoners is not an acceptable ally.
  58. Conservative Die Hard from Toronto, Canada writes: If you have a problem with how Harper is doing his job, why don't you run for office. Otherwise just shut it and let us do our job.
  59. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes:
    NATO's new policy on the drug trade:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6589113.stm , so now we're in the drug trade and the torture business...
  60. Flip Flop And Fly from Toronto, Canada writes: Taliban Jack (Layton) is right on this one for all the wrong reasons. There is no value to be gained by Canada or Nato taking on the evil Islamic extremists in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a fundamentalist Muslim and Warlord culture with no likelihood of changing for the better. These Muslims are fighters and murderers who kill women in burquas at the soccer stadium on the weekend for fun and hang their enemies in public places. What the hell are civilized westerners doing in that hell hole? Let the Muslims kill each other as it is written in their book.
  61. Randy Hyland from Winnipeg, Canada writes: A typical Left Winger Liberal from Socialist cesspool Toronto, Canada writes: mogens bay from Canada writes: this is posturing. They do not need to waste time on this. Maybe next summer.
    Call a non confidence motion Mr. Dion or are you chicken?

    Dion is Chicken! for sure.

    Just a little education for you two calling Dion a chicken for not calling a confidence vote. It is Harper and only Harper that gets to make a vote a non confidence vote. Maybe Harper is a chicken to make it a confidence vote don't you think?
  62. Wilf Kruggel from Onoway, writes: The opposition parties of Canada, must be the laughing stock of the freedom loving world. I'm ashamed for them, really. Unfortunately, freedom is taken for granted and those misguided people think that freedom will be there for them forever. The way things are going now, do not bet on it, Wilf
  63. Sunny Singh Sandhu 4 generation in Canada from vancouver, Canada writes: Good job Liberals eventually we will be out of Afghanistan. A proud day for democracy and Canada.
  64. Hunter J from sudbury, Canada writes: Convoy of Death There was a report and documentary viewed by the European parliament called the Convoy of Death. It showed what happened to the original Afghan prisoners who surrendered during the initial American invasion after 911. They are all now dead. But the Americans did not just have them shot. They put them into container-trucks then drove the trucks out into the desert and left them locked inside and in the sun. If they pleaded to get air their captors shot through the walls of the containers. After three days when the pleas had stopped they buried the bodies in the desert with bulldozers. Remember these were POW s who had surrendered. This is the kind of war we are sending our young men into to fight while men in suits pretend they do not know. Why stay in this any longer ? What does this tell us of ourWorld? (for those who wish to learn more about this terrible story the information is there to find on Google but does not get written in the monopolized media outlets of the USA or of Canada) - - - - -
  65. gilles monenemie from Montreal, Canada writes: Jack still doing deals with the Conservatives. Must be a little troubling to explain to his supporters. Watch for the NDP meltdown.
  66. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: Layton; you would sell your soul to the devil for a little feeling of power/ disgusting
  67. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Wilf, I agree with you. I'm ashamed for them. The whole thing right now is about politics, and nobody gives a rt's ss for either our soldiers or some poor, dumb, Afghan farmer getting slapped around for being in the wrong place, in the wrong time. This isn't culture wars. This isn't 'chalk up yet another one for just too damned bad'. This is the big leagues: full contact politics! Does anybody think for a moment that if you changed the position of any party that its line wouldn't change instantly? If the Libs were in Harper and the pack would be all over them. If the NDPs were ready for an election, we'd have one. Michael Ignatieff having the effrontery to charge anybody with supporting torture, however, makes the gorge rise. Oh yes, and fundamentally the Bloc doesn't care, provided their country looks bad.
  68. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Zach Fitzgerald - but that's the point. The NDP and Bloc aren't attacking the government on the war, they're attacking the Liberals. They know that the Liberals don't want an election, so by bringing forward a motion forces the Liberals to vote against a withdraw and disappoint the lefty voters that they are trying to attract. Those voters will go to (or stick with) the NDP & Bloc. Furthermore, they know that they will not be blamed for bringing forward the motion - Dion will be. Reading the posts above, many 'conservatives' are dancing to the socialist tune.
  69. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: I apologize for my post - I misread the article. I thought that the NDP brought forth the motion - not the Liberals.
  70. Jack Ryan from Canada writes: "the NDP voted against it, saying it didn't go far enough because troops should be pulled out of the region immediately."

    The NDP are completely useless. Instead of supporting a bill to limit our involvement; thereby getting them closer to their supposed goal of, 'pulling out of the region immediately"; they opt to leave the mission open-ended. Are there any NDPers out there who actually think Jack Layton is achieving anything for your cause? I cannot believe the NDP are propping-up this useless and incompetent government; a government diametrically opposed to everything the NDP is supposed to stand-for. Jack Layton serves nobody's interest but his own.
  71. Sunny Singh Sandhu 4 generation in Canada from vancouver, Canada writes: The NDP are worse than the Alliance headed by Mini Bush. At least the conservatives stick to warmongering. The NDP are a disgrace send them to the Taleban its obvious they dont want this war to end.
  72. dee william from Canada writes: The NDP has rightfully voted against the motion. This motion is an affirmation that there will be 2 more years of killings in Afghanistan, 2 more years of Canadian soldiers being killed, and 2 more years of sending prisoners to torture. 2 day is 2 days too long, never mind 2 years.

    This is the absolutely most consistent position NDP can take and my party has been consistent all the time.

    The liberals who don’t understand why NDP did what they did is because they are a bunch of flip floppers themselves.

    They initially supported that the mission should end this year, but a few of them sided with Harper to extend the mission to 2009.

    Well guess what, the NDP s position did not change; we are the good guys and will not compromise our beliefs about the mission in Afghanistian.
  73. uncle rukus from Center of the Universe, Canada writes: What the deal with the NDP?? They are the first to stand up and bellow about this mission and O'Connor but when push comes to shove they side with the Conservatives. Well Mr. Layton you have no voice left as the right thinks your a joke and the left think you are a coward. Please fade away into the night never to be heard from again your party is as good as gone in the next election.
  74. steve allan from Canada writes: Another colossal blunder by Jack Layton. NDP supporters are starting to
    grow weary of his leadership. He wants the troops out now but he doesn't have the votes to win a motion to that effect. He should have settled for this, at least it's something to hang your hat on. I know a lot of NDP supporters who are going to be furious. Layton better have a good
    answer for them.
  75. Dana Dana from Canada writes: Proud day for the NDP. Championship level compartmentalization.
  76. Joe Blow from Canada writes: I love seeing Liberals take a fit. Therefore I am enjoying reading this.
  77. p lailey from Vancouver, Canada writes: Dion lacks credibility. His comment that we should bring Afghan detainees to Canada is naive. Thankfully he will never be PM as I shudder to think what he would do to our great country.
  78. Karol Karolak from Canada writes: Message from; Ministry of Propaganda
    of New Conservative Government of Canada.

    We are winning propaganda war on every front; we have forced Dion and Liberals to utter Carbon Tax, and dreaded KYOTO carbon credits.
    Thanks to our secret cooperation with G&M we have forced Dion to utter bring Taliban prisoners to Canada. Thanks to our secret cooperation with NDP we have once again defeted Liberano gang on Afghanistan motion. Stay tunned more news to come soon.
  79. Michael Owens from Calgary, Canada writes: John Baird Is Nothing But A Loud-Mouth from Edmonton, Canada writes: Set the date and get out of there. There is nothing to measure success, and there never will be, when you're fighting 'terrorists' rather than a nation. You can't eradicate terror....it is impossible!

    Yes, who ever you are, it is impossible. But, we can provide Afghani's with much needed humanitarian assistance, continue drilling water wells, and teach the citizens how to read, so that someone with NO integrity and deceptive motives can't lie to them about what is actually said in the Q'uran (how ever it is spelled).
  80. steve allan from Canada writes: Dee William - Layton is wrong on this issue. He says he wants the troops out now but he knows that's not possible because the House has already passed a motion to keep our troops there till 2009. The earliest we could leave is 2009.

    Layton has a lot of explaining to do to his constituents. I think his career as leader is over.
  81. Sunny Singh Sandhu 4 generation in Canada from vancouver, Canada writes: Its obvious there will be an election and another vote on bringing the troops home. Its also obvious in a year there will be no more support for this combat mission. The Conservatives time in office like the Bush administration are almost over. This war like the pre-emptive war are not working. Great day for the Liberals and Bloc pathetic day for the NDP. Jack Layton has lost a lot of vote because of this. Now the only one who will vote for him are Alberta hippies who dont like conservatives.
  82. Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: It's wonderful that some morons want our brave Canadian soldiers to take the brunt of the casualties and not other NATO assets just to demonstrate ther brown nosing support of emperor stevie.

    Isn't that wild ? Come on fellas and gals dust off your old Lee Enfields and get over there yourselves !!!

    Morons will always be morons. No point attempting to reason with a moron.
  83. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: What a disgrace! The NDP had in its hands the one and only chance of ensuring an end to Canada's aggressive combat role in Kandahar in 2009 and dropped it in order to vote with the Harper Government. Why? There are only a few options: They couldn't stand the idea of the Liberals being credited with ending the combat mission. They chickened out on taking responsibility for ending the combat mission--even after calling repeatedly for its end as soon as possible. The reason they give--that they are holding out for a quicker end to the mission--is laughable. Anyone who wasn't born yesterday knows that this was the only chance of actually thwarting the Harper government's agenda for politically-motivated open-ended war. If the NDP comes back with its own motion for an earlier date, they already know it won't pass. In short, they are playing politics pure and simple, and are more concerned with their war with the Liberals than they are with our country and its soldiers. Shame on them.
  84. Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: The NDP wants this mission to end now, not two years from now, but I suspect that after Day, O'Conner and Hillier are prosecuted for war crimes that the mission will end PDQ, and Layton will be entirely vindicated.
  85. Karol Karolak from Canada writes: Message from; Ministry of Propaganda
    of New Conservative Government of Canada.

    We are winning propaganda war on every front: we have forced Dion and Liberals to utter Carbon Tax, and dreaded KYOTO carbon credits.
    Thanks to our secret cooperation with G&M we have forced Dion to utter bring Taliban prisoners to Canada. Thanks to our secret cooperation with NDP we have once again defeated Liberano gang on Afghanistan motion. Stay tunned more news to come soon.
  86. Stephaniee Dion from France, Canada writes:

    Vhern Mcpherson,
    Diss is why nobody tries to reason witt you.
    You are de Captain of de Morons.
  87. Don Bryant from Calgary, Canada writes: So what do all you bleeding-heart lefties say now? The socialist, communist-loving NDP's actually did something right, for once, and supported the government! Albeit for the wrong reason, but at least they supported them.
  88. Freddie Fender from Canada writes: Duncan Munro from Langley BC, Canada writes: "The NDP wants this mission to end now, not two years from now, but I suspect that after Day, O'Conner and Hillier are prosecuted for war crimes that the mission will end PDQ, and Layton will be entirely vindicated."

    The latest "turn on" for the anti-peace left wing extremists is their fantasy that Canadian ministers and generals will be tried for so-called "war crimes." What a make-believe world these left wing extremists inhabit. It's not going to happen.
  89. Sunny Singh Sandhu 4 generation in Canada from vancouver, Canada writes: My names Stevie Harper I take my orders from the Bush and radical born again Christians. Stand up for Canada?
  90. p lailey from Vancouver, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Toronto, Canada writes: "Morons will always be morons. No point attempting to reason with a moron. "

    Agreed. That's why I don't try to reason with you!
  91. dee william from Canada writes: Steve Allan, that is ridiculous. If the liberals win an election next year, it is still possible that the NDP can work with the Liberals to withdraw the troops from combat role sooner than later. “"this House call upon the government to confirm that Canada's existing military deployment in Afghanistan will continue until February, 2009, at which time Canadian combat operations in Southern Afghanistan will conclude; and call upon the government to notify NATO of this decision immediately."” This motion stated that Canada must continue it’s combat operations in Southern Afghanistan until February, 2009. The motion to extend the mission until February 2009 was just rejected by majority of the liberals just a few months ago. I believe it makes practical sense for the NDP to not support the motion because it is still possible that there will be a change of government soon and the Liberals might form a minority government that can make a deal with the NDP to really terminate Canadian combat operations sooner than 2009. Beside , a motion has no legislative power and is only symbolic in nature. Furthermore, the motion only called for an end to combat operations in Southern Afghanistan. The more important issue is, how can the NDP support human torture by extending the mission until February, 2009? Knowing what happened to the prisoners that were sent to the Afghan authorities and the conservatives ‘ refusal to do anything about it , how can the NDP, or any Canadian, support one more second of this so called mission in Afghanistan? It’s wrong, unjust and Canadian lives are being sacrificed for the wrong military operation.
  92. Jake Richardson from Kingston, Canada writes: Wow Layton. Just...wow. You are so desperate for any sort of power that you voted down a motion that does what you want, just so that the liberals can't claim a victory.

    The NDP has truly reached a pathetic new low.
  93. luto tek from vancouver, Canada writes: This the problem with the N.D.P. They never compromise on anything. They're so militant(politically) and naive. All bluster and no action. Typical socialist's.And they wonder why they will never come to power Federally.
  94. Colour Me Surprised from Canada writes: The NDP actions today are dividing its base. I had a discussion with the NDP office in my riding today about it, and am expecting a call from my MP. I don't know what he can say except the vote is wrong for the right reasons, and it affirms the NDP position of "troops out now". I still think that a vote for a firm withdrawal date in the hand beats a no withdrawal date in the bush. Apparently the NDP will now come with a motion to withdraw immediately, but I ca