Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

The hazards of Facebook's social experiment

OMAR EL AKKAD AND KEITH MCARTHUR

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:03 AM EDT 02/05/07

Toronto-area pupils disciplined three times recently over comments on popular social-networking site ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. The Religious Left from Canada writes:
    The students learned a valuable lesson. Authority figures are often self absorbed people who don't deserve respect, but there are consequences if your don't kiss a$$. An important life lesson.
  2. doug burt from canada, writes: the boards are over-reacting when we went to school we alll bad-mouthed he teachers except our medium was the spoken word..teachers are naive to think it doesn't happen and need to get a thcker skin and quit being hypocrites. My friend who has been a educator for 21 years tells me if only the comments teachers make about students were known the backlash would be huge...So come on lets alll relax, this has been goin on since the advent of the one room classrom..except now instead of the spoken word, it's on venues such a sfacebook....who are discovering these comments anyways, studend informants, or paranoid teachers seeking them out....
  3. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: What really bugs me about facebook is that I didn't think of it in the first place. When will google buy then out for a billion dollars?

    Anyway, if there are any teenagers' parents reading this, teach your children that if they have a problem with someone, do it face-to-face. If I were the teacher being slagged in the public domain, a slander suit against the kids and their families would be a slam-dunk.
  4. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: doug burt, lets say you are a teacher and I photoshop your face on some gay porn and distribute around the school? You would just let it go. Right!
  5. Joe Ng from writes: Students do it to teachers. Teachers should be allowed to post their marks and report card comments online for all to see. Let's see how most the students like it.
  6. Henri-Leon Solomon from New York, United States writes: "The pupils from Willowbrook Public School were barred last week from a year-end trip to Montreal for Grade 8 graduates after derogatory comments about teachers were spotted on a Facebook group." These kids have a right to vent, to express their opinions about instructors. If they are going to be barred from a school trip, teachers should as well if they seal a kid's poor academic or behavioural reputation in the teacher's lounge. This is ridiculous. The one big difference between facebook and say, the telephone or a group huddle after school, is that Facebook leaves a digital paper trail. What teacher's may now realize is that there is a new layer of accountability. If someone is a poor or insensitive instructor, everyone will know about it for years to come. But this is also true if someone is a great.
  7. Brett DAmelio from St. John's, Canada writes: I would think that commenting on the teachers/school from your house would be beyond the realm of punishment of the school.

    If there were slanderous remarks/serious offences being made then they should be taken up with the police, not by strongarming the children and taking away their priviledges.

    If the students are commenting on teachers away from school property (ie. not in the computer labs), then either a letter should be sent home to the parents with the students remarks and how it is deemed damaging to the school/ professionalism of the teachers.

    If it persists it's basically like a hate crime. If it's not that serious then the school shouldn't waste its time with it.

    Although I do think it would be fair for a teacher to state that students who make those remarks are making a telling statement about their character, and while teachers attempt to be unbiased, their behaviour obviously will reflect the students actions regarding the school/thier fellow teachers.
  8. Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: Just a thought... Are these teachers sitting in front of their computers tracking down any reference to themselves on Facebook the same one's complaining they don't have enough prep time???
  9. jeff peters from Toronto, Canada writes: Unless the comments were to the point of libel, in which case, there is a venue called court, than why should a school board have any jurisdiction or right to punish kids that are making remarks away from a school venue? I don't think this would stand up in court, but then again, which parent is going to spend the money challenging it?

    I understand the need for respect in a school setting, but this borders on infringement of free speech.
  10. David Williams from Canada writes: School trips are extra-curricular, so the teachers chaperoning them are volunteering their free time. Why would or should they chaperone a bunch of students who insult them, publicly or not?
  11. Cynthia C from Toronto, Canada writes: This is exactly why we need to send kids to finishing or charm schools. They need to learn their manners! Facebook and MySpace are great networking sites, but young people need to know what's proper and what's not!
  12. Job Patstone from Quebec City, Canada writes: I agree with the first comment. This was a good lesson for these students.
    It's the old,scratch my back and I'll scratch yours, which is what life is all about.
    I wonder if these students realize what a difficult job it is to be a teacher. Teaching and parenting are the most thankless jobs one can have. Maybe the students should start criticizing each other on this site. Maybe racist remarks can be made, maybe people can say what they really think, and not get punched in the face. I was once punched in the face, for a verbal racist remark, and I deserved it. The internet is a very hypocritical communication medium, because you never have to face your opponent, so who are the hypocrits? Teachers have to respect all their students, but I guess students don't have to respect their teachers. The written word is there for all to see, the spoken word is there to be interrpreted and defended by those to whom it is addressed. We don't see political debates done on the internet, we see the opponents defending themselves, face to face.
  13. Dawn Lotus from Canada writes: The "God bless TNA pants" group is an embarrassment to this city. Its just wrong on so many levels.
  14. Beer N Salsa from Canada writes: Bring back corporal punishment. The students took liberties that essentially add up to invasion of privacy. If there isn't any punitive action that the teachers can take against the students (this isn't a case of freedom of expression) such as suing them or their parents/guardians, what protections exist for people who aren't as savvy or as vicious as today's young people. These "kids" wield the internet and other technologies as tools for harassment, deceit, intimidation/bullying, cheating and yet most posters feel it is the teachers who have to adopt a "tougher skin" solution. What kind of tomorrow's leaders are these examples of youth going to provide the country. Sure they could get jobs with the Liberal party and work to defraud the taxpayers of hundreds of millions of dollars while lying to the country about unity. Excusing them as naive is extremely naive, even foolish. These teens knew exactly what they were doing and either knew or hoped that their "teacher evaluations" would cause embarassment and hurt. The bottom line is they simply didn't care that their actions would hurt others. They don't possess the capacity for compassion and that is a failure by their parents and their community. Where else do they get the idea(s) that these actions are harmless or okay? These youths display the typical characteristics of sociopathic behaviour and many posters in here must share the same traits if they are so enboldened to support this type of behaviour.
  15. Turth Hurts from Toronto, Canada writes: So why is it okay to stalk your ex on facebook but not in your car parked in front of their house, or using the phone. Stalking is stalking no matter what the medium used.

    It's too bad kids today just sit in front of their computer with their imaginary friends and don't actually get outside to play with the real ones.
  16. Former Liberal from Niagara Falls, Canada writes: Lately, I've been noticing a trend both here in Canada and in the U.S.. Teachers and schoolboards seem to be taking it upon themselves to impose a whole host of new "rules" governing families and parenting practices. While I agree that a lot of parents are tuned out when it comes to what their kids are doing, I certainly don't think the self-serving unions that represent teachers are exactly a good source of parenting advice. Everything from the content of the lunches we pack for our kids, to what our kids say via their own home computers after school hours seems to be fair game for these leftist bullies. In one instance, school officials were mandating that parents had to attend drug and alcohol education at the school or their kids wouldn't be allowed to attend the prom. Some of their ideas, banning cell phones for instance, even put our kids at greater risk of death or injury in the event of a disaster such as Dawson College. Enough is enough. Parents need to fight these kinds of things, so we can get court decisions that keep power-hungry school officials in their place as public servants accountable to parents, not just themselves. Maybe its time to ammend how schools are funded. Perhaps their budgets should be put to a community referrendum. Seems only fair that the people who pay them should have the final say about how they spend our money.
  17. Ryan Fillmore from Sackville, Canada writes: The parents and kids should be taking the school board and teachers to court. This is infringement on the freedom of speech. It doesn't matter if the comments are offensive or a compliment, nobody has the right to punish someone for exercising their right to freedom of speech. The public school system makes me sick, and needs to be replaced.
  18. Lee Turner from Canada writes: Was this an artilce about students allegedly insulting teachers on facebook, or an ad for face book?
  19. Stan L from Canada writes: While I absolutely believe that students have the right to vent and express frustration. The other side of the coin that parents/school boards are failing to teach the kids is responsibility. It would be career suicide for me to go on Facebook or MySpace and slag off my bosses, it's the same for kids. The internet is not a private medium it is one big depository of information some good and some bad....and unless kids are taught how to asess this then they are in for some rude awakenngs later in life. In the incident they are describing in the article, it is my understanding that the school distributed policy at the beginning of the year, had a school assembly about it and even a play....seems to me the kids were warned. It doesn't matter where slander or libel happened home or school, just that it did....not to mention the fact that it just isn't nice or an effective way to deal with a problem you may be having.
  20. Cynthia C from Toronto, Canada writes: I guess most of you agree with me that finishing/charm school is a good idea for young people, since no one has commented on it so far. I think I'm one of the only regular comment posters who doesn't get any feedback. Of course, it's unlikely schools will bring in finishing/manners classes because (especially table manners, since we're all about diversity (when in truth, most etiquette classes teach European style. North American style, meaning switching the fork between the left and right hands, is a no-no.)
  21. Tracey Bell from Canada writes: I find it surprising that the article doesn't mention that you have to be 18 years old to register on facebook...last time I checked there weren't too many 18 year olds in grade 8!!! hmmm.....
  22. Brian A from Canada writes: Good for school board. People need to learn the internet is public domain, and anything that goes up there is about as open as a billboard. Being able to make snarky comments is a great pass-time and stress reliever, so I've no problem with that, but at least be smart enough to not get caught. It's called responsibility.
  23. Cynthia C from Toronto, Canada writes: Tracey, Facebook has allowed under 18s (but 13 ) to register since they started high school networks.
  24. Ryan Fillmore from Sackville, Canada writes: Cynthia C - I think your idea of a finishing/charm school is a horrible idea. This is the things that parents need to teach their kids, ie: respect for others. If parents cannot teach their children how to respect another person, then no matter how much you school them, they will not learn. Kids see and learn more from parents than from classrooms.
  25. central Canada from Canada writes: So what is the difference between that and posting comments on:
    http://www.ratemyteachers.ca/info.php?type=RateRules
  26. Mitch Sprague from Ottawa, Canada writes: Hey, let's throw caution to the wind and go for it. If its ok for the kids to slag the teachers on facebook why not let the teachers post marks or comments about students that aren't quite "getting it"? It seems that the argument here is that the students should be allowed to post whatever they want but suffer no consequences. Life is just not like that. And things like school trips are usually considered privileges that are rewarded based on proper behavior. It seems completely reasonable that if a student acts like a jackass online that the privileges might be revoked. Facebook is nothing more than a fad, destined to pass on like all the other online fads, with questionable use.
  27. Joe Ng from Brampton, writes: For those that suggest that this should be dealt with by the court instead of the school board is absurd. School is an envrionment where children make and learn from their mistakes (within reasons of course). But going to court against the kids is worst than the school board stepping in and take a field trip away from them. The school boards across Canada have been given powers by the provincial governments to implement new rules as they see fit - this enables the school boards to be flexible and in this case, catch up with those that abuse technology.

    To those that suggest that cancelling a school trip violates freedom of speech, you have ask yourself whether children should know from right from wrong. I certainly had that sense when I was a kid to not write permanent nasty things about teachers. To allege a teacher mastubating and publish it on the internet certainly seems defamatory to me.

    I hate to say it, but we are getting way too lax on children's behaviours. And over time, this is going to reflect badly on Canada as a country as these kids will grow up and start to travel abroad.
  28. Barry Kojima from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Children need to be seen and not heard. This simple premise is a fact as children are just that: children.

    They are incapable of making decisions factoring in consequences and the foundation of right and wrong is not yet an established skill set.

    Freedom of speech? Off school property? Give me a break! What’s their next defense? They were only following orders?

    Our PC culture is giving rise to a new order of sociopaths, albeit a small number, by allowing these children their every impulse without the consequences that should be attached or realized.
  29. Paul Jones from kitchener, Canada writes: if they write an OPINION, there should be no punishment. if they incite hatred or violence, THEN thats harrassment. saying that you think someones gay or an A* is NOT harrassment, and people need to develop a thicker skin against such comments. if people dont like, thats to be expected. suck it up.
  30. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: I have some issues with what the schools are trying to do here: 1) If the offending posting is being made off school property on the child's own time on a home computer or a friends then the school has zero control to police my child. The responsibility of punishment falls to me, the parent. Perhaps what this means is the school wishes to accept all responsibility for my child at all times and should provide a teacher to assist her with homework after school hours at our house during weekdays and weekends or should ensure a teacher is there to make sure she is tucked in at night at the proper bedtime. Since my child seems to be under their protection and watch at all times, should she be injured at anytime, be it on school property or not, I will hold the school accountable and sue for their lack of protecting my child. 2) The major problem I have is how does anyone know for sure that the accused is actually the individual who made the offending post? Is it not possible that someone with a grudge or just being a jerk creates a fake entry of the accused and frames them for the post? If my child was accused of this and I questioned her about it and she tells me she didn't do it you can guarantee I will take her word first and fight with every tool and means I have. The burden of proof is on the school , simply saying the website has an entry for my child and the posting came from it isn't going to cut it. Show me the proof that my child did it, give me the IP address of the post made and show me video evidence to back up your claim, show me something other than a computer generated bio that anyone could create, otherwise back off.
  31. Girl Driver from Mississauga, Canada writes: So some of the posters here agree with slandering people, so its no big deal if they start with slandering their teachers, ask yourself where does it end.

    I have two teenage children and if they did something like this, I would support the School board's decision.

    I think the students need to know that if they have a problem with someone they should deal with it in a face to face meeting. They need to learn more life lessons and reprimanding them for this type of behaviour is absolutely acceptable in my book.

    Right on School Board - Parents should take the time to speak to their children about this unacceptable behaviour - I will.
  32. Tom Pasquit from Canada writes: Ryan Fillmore, this isn't freedom of speech. This is slander of the weakest kind. Hiding behind anonymity. If you have something to say, say it face to face. Then see how it takes to be taken to court. These are hate crimes, and should be treated as such. If I called Ted Rogers, for example a liar publicly, I would be held responsible for my comments. These students, and their parents by association, should be no different. Parents have to realize giving your child Internet access in their bedrooms at all hours is a big mistake. You are allowed to see and observe what they send over the Internet and more importantly what they receive. There is inexpensive software to do this. And no it isn’t spying its called parenting and setting limits. I don't want to hear the excuse kids will be kids. Now a days kids bully to millions over the Internet instead of duking it out in the park and moving on.
  33. Carlos Jose from Happytown, Canada writes: Well, after considering the remarks, I have to agree with the school board. Stan L mentioned that the kids were warned at the beginning of the year that abuses of this kind would not be tolerated. For the school to not enforce its own rules would be unjust and would set a very poor example. There need to be rules and limits - kids should not be free to spout whatever slander they want. If my kids did this, it wouldn't matter whether the schoolboard cancelled the trip or not because they would be grounded. We can not afford to teach our kids that slander is OK - the implications on society are most unfavourable. A lot of the junk we see on the streets today is the result of failure to discipline children properly. This story reminds me of those teens who shot that girl on boxing day - giving kids freedom to do as they please results in violent, rude, mean and/or selfish behaviour.
  34. Joe Ng from Brampton, writes: Peter Parker, it isn't that difficult to trace someone's use of computer. But from your own comments, even if IP address is found, you would still request proof that your child actually sat there and typed out the comments. If you recall the case involving the daughters drowing their mother, MSN transcripts were seized by the police which were used as key evidence to convict the girls. The only reason why no one is tracing the computers or seizing transcripts here is because that would cost too much money and time. And obviously the severity of this action compare to a murder case is night and day. The society trusts the parents to police their kids in a reasonable manner. Unfortunately, comments on the board suggest to me that many parents have a tendency to blame the school boards when it is their children that are in the wrong. Kids learn from their parents.
  35. Tracey Bell from Canada writes: My 16 year old niece attempted to register and it wouldn't allow her with her birthdate.
  36. Irene Cornwell from Morinville, Canada writes: A classroom is one of the first away- from- home enviornments a child knows. To me these comments reflect how these children were raised. It says they feel confortable threatening someone's career or well being. Why parents would object to having their child learn common coutesy and fair play escapes me. Obviously, a teacher is a well educated individual compared to their students and deserves respect in all settings.
    If a student has a genuine concern about a teacher's ability there are channels already in place
    As for developing a thick skin. I think that was one of the agruments when Jews first starting having to wear yellow stars or gays pink triangles. Perhaps, people who have been historically persecuted are more alert to the internet stars and triangles.
  37. Tom Pasquit from Canada writes: Tracey Bell I hope you are not so naive that you think kids won't use a different birthdate to circumvent the system.............if thirty years ago we would give a different birthdate to get case of beer.........
  38. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: To central Canada, ratemyteachers.com and ratemyprof.com are moderated sites.
  39. Richard Daystrom from Toronto, Canada writes: I would hazard a guess that slagging them has been going on since schools were first created. Only this time there's a huge footprint for the world to see. Kids, learn this lesson: whisper campaigns are just as effective and a lot harder to trace.
  40. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Joe Ng, My child will always have my trust until they prove that they don't deserve it by lying to me when I stand up for them. Until that point, I will take my child's word over all others. If she claims she didn't do it you better believe I will demand some proof. You may take the word of strangers over your children's but I don't and never will until such time, if any, that my child gives me reason to. If it was my home IP addy, it certainly limits the number of suspects greatly and her butt would be in a world of trouble for doing it and lying to me, but if it isn't my home addy, I'm fighting it tooth and nail for my daughter because she is my daughter.
  41. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Many posters seem to have forgotten one detail: teachers are human beings, too. They're not some kind of robot developed to supervise your children for six hours a day and teach them the provincial curriculum. As human beings, don't teachers have any rights? I think a teacher's right to live peacefully in his/her community without being harrassed by the existence of slander on the public area of the internet trumps a student's right to post whatever they feel like.
  42. Ryan Fillmore from Sackville, Canada writes: Tom Pasquit - calling someone a liar, is not the same a making a slanderous statement. I can call you a liar in public, and without any details or additional comments you cannot do anything to me in court, because it is an opinion (mine) that you are a liar. If I provided details and specifics, then you could take me to court. The fact that you deny this being a freedom of speech issue, is unfortunate. This exact situation is how people with thin skin and are over-sensitive to everything in life, get away with garbage laws and restrictions on what is or is not appropriate comments. If this was my child, and they made statements like this from home, on their own computer... I would take the school and school board to court. Yes children do need to learn right from wrong, but first they need to learn to defend "their" right to freedom of speech.
  43. Robert Schmidt from Toronto, Canada writes: It is an unfortunate reflection on Canada that recent medical research into child-rearing asserts that only about 30% of parents can be described as "good patrents". The same research cites that 42% of Canadians parents struggle with basic literacy. From reviewing the posts above - discounting those obviously written by teens themselves - I note that many self-identified "parents" would bwe hard put to describe "individial responsibilities" so bent are they on their and their children's "individual rights". What used to be only said among kids in person or on a telephone cannot be compared to the posting of baseless allegations online. The reports I read mentioned kids posting FaceBook messages about such-and-such a schoolteacher masturbating under her desk etc. This is libelous, especially to people engaged the education profession. I believe there SHOULD be repercussions - but that they shouldnt ALL be borne by the kids themselves. I believe that the parents of these children are partially responsible. Perhaps the Children's Aid reps should visit the homes of these children to see how they are being raised. Children without respect or understanding of this sort are the product of parents who may be lackingn these same things. Such parents can reach a point where they are less than superfluous, they actually have negative impacts upon children in their care. Such parents should have their children - regardless of their ages - removed from their care. Sorry if I seem rather hardnosed, but Canada spends less on education than almost any other western democracy. Canadian research describes the sorry state of Canadians parenting with words like "nefarious", "negative-sustaining", etc. PLUS, I've see these bad parents EVERY time I shop. Maybe it's time we look at "licences" for prospective parents. The society at large must pick up the cost of bad parents' bad parenting, so maybe preventing such people from becoming parents should be examined.
  44. Cameron Reid from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't understand how the school can claim the right to impose this punishment- where in the law does it say that a school official can censor or censure a student's statements if they are not made in school time or on school grounds? Regardless if it was bad-mannered or not for the kids to post their remarks, the fact remains that it was ENTIRELY within their rights to do so. Supporting this kind of behavior by schools is encouraging the nanny state.
  45. Mike H from Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada writes: Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: I have some issues with what the schools are trying to do here: 1) If the offending posting is being made off school property on the child's own time on a home computer or a friends then the school has zero control to police my child.

    Peter Parker, you may feel that way. BUT, someone could just as easily make the case that if they can access the information AT school, it is no different than it happening at school. Since the Facebook is on the internet, and you can access the internet from school, those comments are available AT school. Therein lies the irony. It doesn't matter where you make comments online. They are accessible everywhere in the world.

    As for trusting your daughter above all others. That's admirable. Naive...but admirable.
  46. Brain Payne from St. John's, Canada writes: As a recently retired teacher, I can't think for the life of me why anyone would want to become a teacher these days ... such a poisonous atmosphere to work in. Incidentally, most kids I've met were wonderful, but the sour few can make life hell. How many posters would like it if they were PUBLICLY scrutinized and criticized for what they do in their work lives? I just hope that the situation will become intolerable enough to discourage teachers from going into the profession in the first place ... THEN you'll see some changes in a hurry!
  47. Sam . from Canada writes: Peter Parker sounds like a parent that actually said to a principal: "I know that my child is lying but I believe him anyway!" Nice parenting!

    Since the trips are extra-curricular (and rewards) and usually include an agreement that the students must continue to display proper decorum (I assume) then these students are not following the agreement. Also, as these are extra-curricular and done with the good graces of the teachers, the result is straightforward .... cancel the students involved or cancel the trip. Personally, if I was the chaperone and the school didn't back the teachers, I would refuse to attend. The trip is then cancelled for EVERYBODY.
  48. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Mike H. - Naive to believe the word of family over a stranger? I pity your children should you have any.
  49. Joe Ng from Brampton, writes: Cameron Reid, what punishment are you referring to? Not taking certain students on a field trip? That is called negative consequences and schools do it all the time. Besides, teachers aren't paid overtime for these field trips. These are voluntarily work and if I were a teacher, I wouldn't want to take a kid that slanders me. Would you?

    The law that the school can do this is in probably in their guidelines, policies, regulations all of which are empowered to them by the provincial government.
  50. B.J. O'Boogie from Montreal, Canada writes: When you start invading people's private space you the so called "Canadian Moral Majority" are asking for problems. Teachers are public servants, who's salaries are paid by your taxes. When you push young people to basically shutup and grin and bear it you create a culture of distrust and teens will take their conversations either underground or resort to their own private codes. Are we running schools that are jails and institutions of indoctrination: you , the student, your opinion and your point of view, ane not only unimportant but not welcome. Think what we tell you to think. We have seen in the past how such conditions can lead to psychological abuse. If the students complain the're complaints are ignored. Our politicians are probably the worst example of bad role models yet Canadians do not pressure them. They consistently lie or play with the truth and seem to be unaccountable to anyone. The purpose of school is to learn how to think;if you deny freedom of thought and expression so that incompetent people can keep their phony baloney jobs you the parents are doing a great disservice to your children.
  51. Sly Saint from Canada writes: "Inexplicably, a large number of Toronto network members have joined a group dedicated to tight workout pants"

    hahaha do you even need an explanation why such large number of guys and girls joined that group? ahaha here is hint, all the pictures there are of women
  52. Joe Ng from Brampton, writes: Peter Parker, it's not as simply as believing a stranger over your child. A teacher, a principal, a police officer - these are not strangers like strangers in a mall or on the streets. These are entrusted people in our society. It would be foolish to not question them, but it would equally foolish to not question your child and to take your child's side completely just because you don't see evidence that would lead you to think otherwise. Unless you monitor your child 24/7, you can't possibly see all the evidence you need to see. That's why we have the teachers and the principals there to provide you with feedbacks and information and correct the problems before it becomes a bigger problem.
  53. Tom Pasquit from Canada writes: Ryan Filmore (FYI)
    Libel: A false publication in writing, printing, or typewriting, or in signs or pictures that maliciously damages a person’s reputation
    Slander: Oral communication of false statements injurious to a person&8217;s reputation; a false and malicious statement or report about someone
  54. Becca F from Edmonton, Canada writes: I think very few people have actually seen what the real issue is here. I have every right to make any comment I wish about my teachers, classmates, friends or family, so long as it does not incite hatred or violence. Students have always made disparaging comments about their teachers; whether it be written in the cover of a text book, said in a huddle at recess or posted on the internet. Students don't get along with their teachers, get over it. Do teachers really want "face to face" confontation with their students to discuss their personal issues? That's the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard. It would certainly result in a lot more court cases and probably more suspended field trips. And please don't go giving me some load of BS about how teachers should be able to similarly disparage their students. You are not all that noble. I've been a member of staff in that staff room and I have seen just how much teachers "respect" their students. You cannot tell me that those comments do not affect a student's standing in another teacher's eyes. Even the one teacher in fifty who can rise above such staff room chatter is somehow effected by that "slander". People talk, deal with it. If you live such that any comments made have no factual grounding, such comments have no bearing on you or you life.
  55. Robert Schmidt from Toronto, Canada writes: Hello Tom Pasquit from Canada:

    And thank you for posting the definitions of slander and libel. So many seem to think that slander and libel are just "shades" of "the individual right to freedom of speech". They aren't. Slander and libel are CRIMES, and while the Young Offenders Act softens things for kids, it does not let them off scot-free.

    This is why I believe that PARENTS bear some responsibility for the existence of teenaged children who do not know what slander and liber mean, and that both are crimes.
  56. Mike H from Grande Prairie, Alberta, Canada writes: Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Mike H. - Naive to believe the word of family over a stranger? I pity your children should you have any.

    See Joe Ng from Brampton's post at 10:47 am. That pretty much sums up my opinion on the matter. I never said you automatically believe the other party, but to automatically take the word of your daughter as the truth without even questioning it seems like a very simple and, for lack of a better word, stupid approach to take as well. You may be pity my children, but they have been taught to be responsible for their actions. You're teaching your daughter there are no repercussions if she can lie convincingly. Good lesson.
  57. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Here is why I do not blindly trust a teacher's word. During Grade 3 I was accused by a teacher of cheating on a test along with 2 others who sat near me. She accused us of sharing answers. The thing is, I did not cheat on it. My mother defended me to the teacher and the VP of the school in a very heated meeting. In the end thanks to my mother's protests I wasn't forced to go on the school PA system to apologize and admit to something I didn't do. Had she not defended me I would have been there with the other two thanks to a teacher who accused wrongly. Would it have killed me, hell no. But it showed me what a good parent my mom is and how much she believed in me and what a cruddy teacher Mrs. P was for accusing and having no proof. This is why my daughter will always have my trust until she shows reason for me to doubt her.
  58. Cameron Reid from Toronto, Canada writes: Joe Ng- what are you talking about? once a student leaves school grounds, the teacher has no authority over them UNLESS they are on a school activity. Provided that the students posted the comments on their own time, this was an illegal sanction.
  59. John Grande from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: Firstly, the worst thing a student can say is that a teacher was doing something sexual in nature. Secondly, teachers voluntarily plan and organize these trips as a reward for a successful year to kids who demonstrate CHARACTER. Perhaps some people who are posting should do some reading about character. You want to chat privately with your friends then IM, or email - do not post for all the world to see.
    Thirdly, where is the parental accountability? I'm sure that many of you would have been more severely punished by your folks than what any school could provide. This parent used the media to get back at the teachers, school, and the school Board because he didn't get what he wanted - his kid on the trip. You need to wake up folks because it's happening in the workplace too - not just schools. Stay tuned.
    Enjoy your 15 mintues of fame while the rest of the class enjoys their trip!
  60. Stan L from Canada writes: Cameron Reid - there is no restriction for home vs. school if the student is posting libellous statements in a oublic forum......where the libel orginates is of no consequence. The fact is that these students had a very celar internet poilcy given to them at the beginning of the year that they and their parents had to sign....plus some other materials that they have been tought throughout the year (Toronto Star reported on this yesterday) nonetheless, most if not all school have a clear policy that has been distributed in much the same fashion.
  61. Lyn Glottz from up north, Canada writes: Teaching .... it used to be a great job, can't wait to get out ! Wouldn't recommend it to anyone now.
  62. Ryan Fillmore from Sackville, Canada writes: B.J. O'Boogie from Montreal, Canada - Speak on, apparently the majority of Canadians are in favor of having the freedom of speech, restricted. Tom Pasquit from Canada - Yes your definitions are correct, but by simply saying someone is a "liar" without any other comments or information, does not fall under the definitions you have listed. If I said you were liar and provided some statements that you can prove are false, then you would have a legal case against me. However, I can technically call anyone I want a liar, without providing any further comments, and get away with it. Schools and school boards do not have the right to dictate what students can say outside of school, or who they can talk about (regardless if it is a teacher).
  63. C C from Canada writes: Umm, sites like RateMyProfessor or RateMyTeacher have been online for years, where students can grade their teachers, with the ability to leave comments.

    My dad's a high school teacher and he's seen some of the nasty (and funny) comments left behind by some of his students anonymously on RateMyTeacher. He just laughs it off... and so did the rest of his teaching staff. Some of these school boards need to grow thicker skin with the Facebook trolling.
  64. Joe Ng from Brampton, writes: Cameron Reid, I don't know why you keep insisting that the school has no authority over this. Sure they do. Firstly, the action involves a student and the victim involves a teacher. Whichever way you cut it, the action could 1) involves the school to take action (which it did), or 2) involves the law to step in to punish to student for defamation (subject to proof, evidence, etc. of course). If you were a student or a parent, would you rather learn through the school or through paying legal fees to learn in the real life court system?

    Let's put this aside - let's say your child is being bullied by another student after school outside the school playground, would you 1) contact the police and prosecute the student for bullying your child; or 2) contact the school and inform the principal that your child is being bullied? Which course of action is the most appropriate (meaning the most effective)?
  65. John Grande from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I happen to know the facts of this particular situation well. Have any of you even read the comments?? The comments that these kids posted were recorded and presented to each of the parents involved. Only a couple of parents out of the five were absolutely disgusted and upset with what their child did. The others either blamed the school for not teaching their kids about how to use the internet properly, blamed the teacher for making their kid want to write these comments on a public forum, or said that it was no big deal and that teachers need thicker skins. As a parent, what lesson are you really teaching these kids? Seems to me, the fact that this parent made such a big deal out of this tells me that this punishment is meaningful. Good call. This parent would've rather had his kid suspended - which is supposed to be the last resort as it stays on your school record. Many of you are commenting on facts in a specific situation you know nothing about. Best to read all the media coverage first, including the Star article that quotes the parent. These kids are media savvy and are not so innocent. This student intended to do his teacher harm by saying the things he did. His regret was getting caught and his parent has said that kids need to stay anonymous. How's that for a lesson?
  66. brian silva from far away from Canada, Canada writes: >>> Peter Parker >>> boy, that "false accusation" 40 yrs. ago when you were just a littel twerp must have really traumatized you. here's a suggestion. get over it. as for blindly trusting your daughter, yes, definitely naive, idiotic, etc., as many others pointed out...
  67. Stan L from Canada writes: John Grande....forgot that part in the TS article, thanks for bringing it up. And you are absolutely right on the issue, the kids aren't so innocent and the parents in this case did show a shocking lack of concern for their kids behaviour and/or even concern about the teacher in question.
  68. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: Brian, No it just showed what a parents love and trust could mean. As for the twerp comment.... watch out or I will report you so you miss out on the big school trip. NYAH NYAH! :)
  69. Timothy Nessus from Somewhere, Canada writes: "after derogatory comments about teachers were spotted on a Facebook group."

    UH...OH...

    Here comes the THOUGHT POLICE!!!

    In my experience, students are not stupid. Bad teachers are. AND, WHO better suited to judge teachers than students????

    But then.... that will be the day... when students have FEEDBACK notes describing THEIR impressions of their teachers!!!

    WHY would the schooling system be ONE WAY ONLY????
  70. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: PS brian.... time to hit the books again for you. It is "little" not "littel". Now go write it out 500 times on the blackboard so you won't make that mistake again.
  71. doug burt from canada, writes:
    teachers use to teach because they loved the job, had passion now we have teachers who no more want to teach then the next person...

    they are university grads, looking for a decent paying, secure position which they hope leads intoo a administration job...lets not paint all teachers as upstanding, individuals...aren't they the same ones who have been caught with increasing regularity having affairs with students maybe these facebook exposes' are hitttin to close to home for some of these teachers..whats the old maxime "truth hurts"
  72. Rob C from Toranna, Canada writes:
    Facebook ... making it easier to steal your identity since 2004

    Good job! /sarc
  73. brian silva from far away from Canada, Canada writes: peter parker, report all you want. thank you for pointing out "little" vs. "littel"...never did learn how to spell english correctly (my 4th language btw)...then again, may have just been a typo. what's your excuse for "No it just showed what a parents love and trust could mean"? try "parent's love" next time...let me guess, that cruddy Mrs. P.
  74. John Grande from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: This is not a freedom of speech issue. You are free to say as you wish. However, if you choose to post comments for all to see, then you must be prepared for people to say "I don't like that" and have them act accordingly. You want to say things privately, then keep it private. Facebook gives you the option of sending a message that is not posted on the wall for all to see. If your intent is to have everyone see it, you post it on the "wall". It's no accident that they call it a "wall". Teachers act "in loco parentis" in the way of a parent. Parents put their trust in their kids' teachers. It is a matter of mutual trust and RESPECT. How can parents view these teachers in that regard when they read these comments posted by the students? How can other students respect their teacher when they read comments like these? These are not "bad" teachers - which shouldn't matter regardless. These are teachers whose names have been associated with comments of a sexual nature which any parent can view. That is absolutely criminal - and a teachers worst nightmare. Like it or not (for all you teacher bashers), teacher are professionals. And these parents are whining because their son was removed from a trip that these very teachers put together - that's hypocritical. As a parent, would you want your child around this kind of a teacher? The father shouldn't allow his kid to go anyway. This family is lucky that this is the only punishment. It's great to have dialogue but all to often, it's a result of "after the fact".
  75. Peter Parker from Toronto, writes: I'm already on the 300th line of correcting it. I'll get back to you when done with the 500th. :) Why the venom? Who peed in your cherrios this morning? Wait are you one of the other 2 who got busted and this is your revenge? Ohhh you speak 4 languages.... c'est bon! Trklären Sie mir zwar? Weet u het hoe te om weinig in het Nederlands te spellen? Usted es un perdedor. Tenha um dia bom.
  76. Robert Schmidt from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey there BRIAN SILVA:

    I doubt very much that Peter Parker is actually an adult. Only a kid or a very immature person would have been petty enough to post the "it's "little' and not 'littel'" comment and expect to "score points" which Peter obviously though he was doing. I suggest to one and all to simply ignore Peter Parker and his less-than-frank and petty ilk.
  77. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: I think what makes Facebook a little different than the old gossiping is that the former no longer stays among friends; it is no longer a secret. The internet and sites like Facebook has completely changed how communication between people work. Now the smallest fact, rumour, slander, gossip, etc. has a permanence and an audience they didn't have before. One person has the power to run a blog that literally EVERYONE can see, and there are few controls on this information. Is it great that we have a media like the internet where people can keep in touch and share ideas and pictures and thoughts among one another with much less effort in the past? Absolutely. But there are also legal implications. If a student is posting a message that incites violence or a rumour intended to ruin someones reputation, he or she should face consequences, either administrative or legal. There is nothing PRIVATE about a Facebook group intended to serve as a gathering point for the whole student body of a school. Free speech should be protected. But in law free speech doesn't protect you against being libelous or inciting violence. And if the media is being used to cheat, students should face the appropriate administrative punishment. Schools should have technology experts (like computer teachers for example) who consult with administation to teach students about computer policy in the school, so the students know what the acceptable limits are. The problem is that the technology changes quickly so the boards should have people who keep up with the trends and develop the appropriate policy.
  78. brian silva from far away from Canada, Canada writes: doug burt >>> try to be a bit more inventive with your criticism next time, if you even know what that word means. regurgitating (another big word for you) the same old propaganda gets tiring to listen to...
  79. Sheila Nice from Canada writes: CC

    How would you like to see comments about you posted online?
  80. Paul Jones from kitchener, Canada writes: this story is a waste of space. it didnt tell us what remarks were made so how can we even begin to judge anything that happened here?
  81. brian silva from far away from Canada, Canada writes: peter parker >>> ha ha ha good one bro. no venom whatsoever... just find it funny that you bring things up that happened in grade 3. like i said, get over it. you've got a kid to raise and you're still acting like one - crying over Ms. Cruddy's "false accusation". and yes, actually english was my 4th of 5 languages - and no, i don't have to prove it. trust me. p.s. no cheerios this morning - cornflakes.
  82. Cameron Reid from Toronto, Canada writes: if this is a libelous comment, then the teacher was free to take legal action. If the teacher was unwilling to do so, then there is no legal way that the school could enact a pusnishment without infringing on the student's legally protected right to free speech. I don't support what they said, but I totally support their right to say it.
  83. brian silva from far away from Canada, Canada writes: robert schmidt >> thanks for the advice...just having a bit of fun...
  84. c'est la vie from Canada writes: Actions have consequences--good and bad. It's never too early to learn, and while 'freedom of speech' seems to be the hot phrase of the day, as my mother always says, "if you don't have something nice to say, keep your mouth shut". As for where the postings occurred....if there was no one in the forest when the tree fell--it still fell.
  85. The Critic Critic from Sarnia, writes: This is a good lesson of what life is about.
    Try dissing your boss over the internet and if not being allowed to go to the company picnic is your punishment consider your self lucky.
  86. John Grande from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: FYI to Paul Jones (read the TS article) - one of the comments involved a student posting on the "wall" of a site for his school that he "...swears he saw (the teacher) touching (or rubbing) herself in the back of the room...". And that was only one of a bunch of comments that were made about their teachers - on a Facebook site dedicated to that school. This was a teacher that was involved in planning and attending the year-end school trip. These comments which were posted intentionally to hurt her. His father did not believe that the comment warranted such a punishment. They would rather have the kid suspended instead of taking away such an important "social" function as a trip with friends. Seems to me, that is a perfect meaningful punishment. Bravo York Region DSB!
  87. John Stanton from Hello_City, Canada writes: I have to say, the people adopting the language of rights and freedoms are embarassing themselves. Simply put, the students in this case have had no freedom infringed upon. Certainly not their freedom of speech for they have spoken. The School Board isn't demanding the post