Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

French and English look different to babies

TU THANH HA

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:58 PM EDT 26/05/07

Study adds to research on ability of infants to recognize dialects long before they can speak themselves ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. Lemmy Nothor from Barcelona, Spain writes: The younger the better. Kids here speak two languages before attending school, and start a third language in their first year. A lot speak four by the time they're ten years old.
    The smart ones start chinese.........
  2. B Johnson from Hfx, Canada writes: I agree with the finding in this study. My own two children grew up in a bilingual household where we spoke both French and English daily. Both children started to speak only after the age of two, but both could converse (at their level) freely in both languages. They grew up switching back and forth constantly. All it took one was one word drop in one language and the family was off in that language until someone else dropped a word from the opposite language. They're both adults now and both are flawlessly bilingual. What a fabulous gift!
  3. Jeff K from vancouver, Canada writes: I wish I had this opportunity growing up. My father is fluent in English and Ukrainian but because he wanted us to be 'English Canadian' I barely know a word of Ukrainian.
  4. gaetan diotte from ottawa, Canada writes: As one of the fluently bilingual, with a working level of some other languages, I can attest to the sheer joy of learning to think in a completely different way.

    Each language has it's own particular world view. Getting to understand these built in premises is truly a mind expanding experience.

    My unilingual French parents moved us all to Toronto where we were in 'total immersion' for which I can never thank them enough.

    Because of that action I was introduced to some of the best English writers, philosophers and other great thinkers.

    I now have studied some of the best minds from both worlds. In doing so, I have also spent much time learning other languages which in course have led me to other great minds.

    Learning a second language is hard, but the third, fourth and fifth become a piece of cake.
  5. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: It is time for all Canadian English speakers to learn their second official language and for the government to invest billions in language training and education. Every part of Canada is obviously bilingual so this should not be a problem.
  6. Monica Leblanc from Canada writes: Every part of Canada, huh? Ever travel outside of Ottawa??
  7. Thumb Sucker from Toronto, Canada writes: French and English sound different?
    Que?
  8. And So The Story Continues as Meg, the Moose and the Mountie.... from Canada writes: Brian Van Ezel: The government of Canada has spent untold billions of dollars on french language training and official bilingualism. So much money that no one in Ottawa dare disclose the amount lest the citizenry wonder why our streets aren't literally paved with gold. And with this immense investment what is the state of language affairs in Canada. Research proves that most students who studied french in school (even immersion students) lose their french language skills mere years after graduation. Add to that a shifting competency scale where to get a job in the federal service an english first language speaker has to have virtually flawless french to qualify and yet on the other hand we have french first language speakers whose abilities as 'completely bilingual' as in the ability to converse in both languages at the level of say a Brian Mulroney or the late Pierre Trudeau, are few and far between. Witness Mr.Dion, Mr. Coderre, former Justice Minister Martin Cauchon, and of course that master-mangler of language, Jean Chretien (and no his Bell's Palsy doesn't affect his ability to speak either language) While their english is understandable it is still a long way from 'fluently' bilingual. Learning another language is an important skill and should be encouraged but instead of streamlining people to learn a specific language, allow them to explore other languages to learn such as chinese, japanese, spanish, russian, etc., and you may find that they will crave to learn even more languages or at least develop an interest in communicating in other languages. I'm taking spanish classes which I pay for because I want to learn this language. Eventually, I will want (even paying for the lessons myself) to learn french through my own initiative that I want to communicate with francophone neighbours in their native tongue. 'Forced' language training by government rule hasn't worked in the past and won't in the future.
  9. Thumb Sucker from Toronto, Canada writes: Oops, didn't read the article. Looks like I am not even unilingual.
  10. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: That really explains why the Federal Government is run by a bunch of cry babies who don't even know how to talk yet but definitley know which langauge they're not speaking!
  11. Etienne Forest from Japan writes: The article's finding are not so surprising. After all the ability of infants and young children at language acquisition is so above that of unilingual adults that indeed their brains must be wired differently and thus capable of feats beyond the wildest dreams of normal adults. In a way, nature made them like idiot savants for good reasons.

    As for growing up in a bilingual family, I wish I did. I had to work painfully to acquire 3 languages, the last one spoken rather poorly.
  12. Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: Brian. I am an anglo-celt. As such I am tired of having the French language shoved down my throat. I am much more agreeable to learning the celtic languages of my own ancesters. And let's not forget that celtic languages are in trouble. If the French want to speak French and English that is their business. English is the global language, so everyone should learn English and their ancestral language. You don't seem to understand that anglo-celts have ancestral languages, which have been greatly bastardized by the French influence anyway. And on another note, I believe bilingualism and its obsession in our schools in Canada is destroying our ability to find those budding scientists and doctors and nurture them. Bilingualism is also harming the economy of the country. Canadians have a false and incorrect sense that Canada is doing well because of budget surpluses. But keep in mind that there are now nearly one million Canadians working in the USA alone. (That's at least 10 percent of our potential workforce) What a waste. I am sick and tired of the focus on Bilingualism. It's time to switch back to funding research in science, physics, math, engineering, medicine, etc., all the fields that generate wealth in a country. Bilingualism and its multi-billion dollar cost to the taxpayers of Canada is doing nothing to generate wealth....nothing...it's sunk costs.
  13. RON T from Kapuskasing, Canada writes: Oui Monica Leblanc. I have traveled outside of Ottawa. As a francophone from Northern Ontario l can attest to you that french is the predominant language around here. If you took time to see where Société Radio Canada transmits you will see that there are french speaking Canadians across thr country.. However, l can assure you that you are not the only one that thinks that the franch language is not spoken outside Québec or Ottawa. In my travels l have found that the majority of Québecos that i met were surprised that there were so many francophones in Ontario and as one of them told me '' tu parles français comme nous autres et tu demeures en Ontario?? ' Mais oui.
    Vive le Canada bilingue
  14. Carl C. from Montreal, Canada writes: Miss Lisa the intolerant is at it again.... I did not know she was a regular poster...
  15. Naughta Doormat from Canada writes: I tend to agree with Lisa Jones.
    Bilingualism is a huge strain on our economy,and unnecessary.
    Sure it's great to know more than one language,but the fact is the French language is pretty much irrelevent,unless you live in Quebec or Northern Ont.[or have a Govt. job].
    I see many French schools in N.Ont with as little as 30 or 40 students,yet the costs are comparable to a school with 200 or more students.
    Also,separate buses for French students.
    But because of bilingualism,these services must be provided,despite the huge cost to tax payers.
    -Wonder how many 'English Immersion' schools there are in Quebec,if any at all.
  16. Geoffrey Diss from Berlin, Germany writes: lol There's Lisa Jones again, prattling on about her precious misconceptions about her heritage. As though anyone cared. As though it related even remotely to the article at hand.

    It's rough being a white anglo in Canada, let me tell you. Having all that French shoved down your throat. Lisa, have you contacted the UNHCR about this? You should.

    Imagine being stuck sitting next to Lisa at a dinner party.
  17. Arzie Chant from Canada writes: I see the resident crazy, Lisa Jones, is back railing against the French language. Her paranoid ramblings to demonize French are nothing short of hilarious.

    Look Lisa, you can learn Manx for all I care, but French has a pretty big role in Canada's history. So before I spend too much time learning dead languages, I think I'll continue becoming bilingual in Canada's official languages.
  18. Harper is Da Man from Ottawa, Canada writes: Good post Lisa...Expect to get slammed as a 'racist', but if one looks - everything you say is true. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional or being intellectually dishonest.
  19. Harper is Da Man from Ottawa, Canada writes: Arzie...

    The key word in your attack on Lisa is 'HISTORY'. Why Canadians embrace HISTORY at the cost of the FUTURE is beyond me.

    Maybe Lisa is just too advanced for you. You should go back to reading The Last Spike looking for why we are such a glorious country.
  20. Scenic Sask! from Canada writes:

    Lisa Jones must be a carpenter. Once again she has hit the nail on the head!

    I, too, am bilingual having taught myself Spanish. I started off with a course from the Open Learning and finished it off by living in Mexico for a year. I am by no means fluent but can converse, which after all is what I set out to do.

    I have no need or desire to speak French and am perturbed by the $$Billions$$ wasted by our governments on a futile attempt to make all Canadians speak French.
  21. Evil Umpire from Ottawa, Canada writes: Lisa, the more languages you know the better. I'm sorry that your narrow mindedness stops you from seeing that. I don't know what anglo-celts and official bilingualism have to do with this article? No one cares about your ancestry. Why don't you blame the gun registry or the sponsorship scandals while you're at it. This was about a baby's capacity to learn languages, not governement spending. It's really easy to change the subject and then make your point, doesn't really make you any smarter though. I think kids should be exposed to many languages asap, it will only better their lives. So Lisa, move to northern Ireland or where ever, dig a hole and find your roots. The french won't bother you there.
  22. Philip Van Bergen from Hashima, Japan writes: I really hate the dormat types who never seem to get out and see that
    the world is a wonderful place. I was determined to learn another
    language when I went to Switzerland and saw the multilingual
    young girl working on the train, and how cool she looked.
    I thought that French would be my second language, but as it
    turns out Japanese is, and it has opened doors and given me
    a new insight into the second most powerful country in the world.
    And I find that when I look at Korean or French, it seems much
    easier to understand now. I wouldn't want to use only half my
    brain and wouldn't trade places with any unilingual redneck ever!
  23. free thinker (you get what you pay for) from Canada writes: Hopefully this study can put an end to doctor telling bilingual parents not to raise their children in both languages. The wisdom of the time was that this would confuse the child and increase the risk of language difficulties. I personally know many people who missed out on the chance of growing up bilingual because of such misguided decisions.
  24. Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: Look, I have no problem with people learning another language. BUT.....it should be their personal choice...billions should not be wasted on forcing Canada to be bilingual when English is the global langauge. And believe me, billions has been blown on bilingualism in Canada. And furthermore, so many bright scientific minds have been lost to French classes. Bilingualism makes me want to gag. This country has a sick obsession with the French language.
  25. philip raitz from Calgary, Canada writes: I am an ESL teacher and my anecdotal experience has shown that age and need are the most important factors in learning to speak another language. A child who learns a second language under about 12 can speak without an accent. Someone who is 20 will learn a second language quicker and better than someone who is 21 and if it is important you will learn if it isn't you won't.

    Intellegence and past acedemic study are pretty minor factors in learning to speak another language.
  26. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: Children are a blank slate at birth, and learning language is a survival mechanism, so of course the younger the better for languages to take root. However, not everyone has the possibility to have two languages on a day to day basis, and a bilingual Canada does not mean everyone needs to be bilingual. While knowing a second language is important, even just for understanding the thought process, UNILINGUALISM is also important, because to take the knowledge of a language as far as it can go, one has to specialize. Would our best writers (English, French, Spanish, Hindi or whatever) have been as good if they had had to juggle two languages to an equal extent? We need a bilingual government apparatus in Canada, yes, but that's precisely what allows Canadians to be UNILINGUAL if they want.
  27. free thinker (you get what you pay for) from Canada writes: Those who say bilingualism is a waste of money should be able and willing to put themselves and their kids through French schools and French only government services and abandon any hope or aspiration of developing their abilities in their native language. If you live in an area where Francophones are a majority (several areas of Ontario and NB, most of Quebec, a small chunk of Nova Scotia) then that should be your reality. If you wouldn't accept this, don't be surprised that Francophones don't either. *** For information's sake, New Brunswick and Ottawa (Fed. govt) are the two fully bilingual jurisdictions in this country, while Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba and Nova Scotia (and PEI to a certain extent) have various commitments to providing services in the language of the minority and a bunch of legal lingo that essentially confirms French (or English in Quebec) as a quasi-official language within the provincial jurisdiction.
  28. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: Lisa Jones, what this study points out is that it makes no sense paying billions to teach middle-aged bureaucrats a second language. You have to teach the second language early.
  29. Evil Umpire from Ottawa, Canada writes: Lisa, I think it's you that has a sick obsession with French, If you don't like french and don't want to learn french, so be it, many students chose to take french, and then stop. this doesn't take away from their ability to take sciences, again you're building a straw man and then burning it up while avoiding the true heart of this article. Babies don't have free will, parents dress their kids in whatever clothes they see fit, parents can also choose to teach, expose, their kids to other languages thus giving their kids a better start in the WORLD. try to see outside your little existence and understand that there IS a WORLD out there. A babies' amazing skill to differentiate and learn languages has NOTHING to do with how you think Govt should spend our money. Can that be any clearer?
  30. Naughta Doormat from Canada writes: I'd like to remind a few posters out there,that in Canada,you are not considered bilingual just because you speak two languages.
    The two languages MUST be English and French ,for you to be considered'bilingual' in this Country.
  31. Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: Evil...The government funded this dumb study. I too teach ESL. Any teacher knows languages are better learned in early childhood.....Duh...We didn't have to blow money on a ridiculous study. My point...I'm sick of our tax dollars going to fund enforced bilingualism crap....Furthermore, all our top researchers and scientists FLEE Canada....Now why is that???????
  32. Oren Margolis from London, United Kingdom writes: 'While knowing a second language is important, even just for understanding the thought process, UNILINGUALISM is also important, because to take the knowledge of a language as far as it can go, one has to specialize. Would our best writers (English, French, Spanish, Hindi or whatever) have been as good if they had had to juggle two languages to an equal extent?'
    ~Leon Russell

    There are plenty of reasonable arguments against official bilingualism, but there are few FOR unilingualism. Many of us are, and are not to be blamed, but to call it a virtue, or to say that it helps you learn your own language 'as far as it can go' stretches credulity. Until the previous century, nearly every significant writer was multilingual, with modern language skills along with Latin, the root of so many tongues and a major contributor to others (like English). I thought I'd compose a little list of multilingual writers, just to prove that it is an asset to any writer, but once I got past Dante, Petrarch, Chaucer, Milton, Montesquieu, Voltaire, Goethe, Conrad, Eliot, and Hemingway, I figured it was wise to stop.

    What a strange point to make, Mr Russell! I fail to see how increasing one's language skills can damage one's language skills. It beggars belief!
  33. Naughta Doormat from Canada writes: The Last Bastien,
    How true. This study was a total waste of money,as I think anyone could have figured out what the results would be.
    Did we really need another study to tell us the obvious?
  34. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: Wow, there sure are a lot of posters who dislike Lisa for speaking her OWN mind. That's the purpose of this section. It's not a flame throwing contest. However I like the comment by someone who said something to the effect that we should be thinking about the future not ruled by past history!
  35. The Last Bastion from Canada writes: Evil Umpire:

    You should stop using this or any other language. Do you have any friends that arent embarassed by you. I love this line: 'again you're building a straw man and then burning it up while avoiding the true heart of this article' did you make that saying up? Then this gem: 'Babies don't have free will' but then you go on to opine 'parents can also choose to teach, expose, their kids to other languages thus giving their kids a better start in the WORLD' intersting use of the shift lock key but isnt that even further reducing the free will of babies of which you feel so strongly. Do you think babies like to be tested on language differention skills? Do you think the average baby, given the choice, would subject itself to watching french people speak with the sound off??? I'm all for the rights of mindless bags of tissue that cant even survive on their own but I think they need a far more superior champion than yourself, EU.

    And has anyone paused to notice the language of this discussion. Just curious.
  36. jojo savard from Canada writes: 'She and Prof. Werker noted that, outside of North America, the majority of young children grow up in multilingual environments'

    Outside of ENGLISH SPEAKING North America, they should have said....
  37. Naughta Doormat from Canada writes: -Next thing you know,they'll be a study about why we need studies,
  38. Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: JoJo.... Remember that it is English speaking Canada which forks over billions to Quebec every year that is allowing Quebecers to have those ridiculous social programs that none of the rest of us have, those dirt cheap tuition fees, and soooooo much more. Without unilingual English speaking Canada's money French speaking Quebec would fall flat on its face....some people say if we pull the plug on Quebec it will fall to third world status within one year...............
  39. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: Oren Margolis says, 'What a strange point to make, Mr Russell! I fail to see how increasing one's language skills can damage one's language skills. It beggars belief! ' That's because you are overly simplifying what I said. I am for a basic bilingualism for all (and of course in Canada, French is the key to a whole world of cultural products to discover and people to know, so it's a natural choice for a second language). I am also ' for ' the kind of easy, almost perfect bilingualism that can be achieved by those lucky types who grew up in bilingual environments. However, it is unrealistic to think that everyone can reach a really satisfactory level of bilingualism, and it's a misconception to think that that's what official bilingualism is aiming at. That's what makes people think official bilingualism is a waste, that misconception. So I'm simply saying that there is a place in this world for unilingual specialists. I meant that if someone tries to juggle two languages 'to the SAME EXTENT', that is, to be equally good in both, they are not going to push the envelope as far as the best specialists in one language. Those specialists don't have to be unilingual, but they will certainly have to specialize in one or the other.
  40. John O'Meara from Canada writes: For the cranky ones above, the study relates to what kinds of innate capacities children have. This is a subject worth knowing about, even if not everybody's interested in it, because it tells us something about human nature. It's known for example that infants can reliably distinguish speech sounds from non-linguistic sounds, and that they can reliably perceive (hear) speech sounds that they have not been exposed to. The brief summary (these are not always reliable) suggests that they are at least partly using visual cues to distinguish speakers of different languages as well as linguistic ones (intonation). It's not as if they are thinking 'this is French' and 'this is English,' it's that they realize they are different - surely something significant.
  41. jojo savard from Canada writes: Lisa Jones - nice try at baiting me, but I'm not a quebecer. And you are way off regardless. Now back to the point..
    as to your comment re: 'enforced bilingualism crap' Official Bilingualism was put in place to undo the incredible damages done to this country by a century of enforced unilingualism. Before you go shooting your potty mouth off again and passing for a fool, get informed. Start with Frances Russell's 'The Canadian Crucible' - then maybe your shame of being so unflinchingly 'Angloceltic' (whatever the heck that means) will calm you down to a level of intelligent discussion. The Canadian Crucible. Read it. For a start. I can refer you to LOTS more after you've finished with that one.
  42. code monkey from Calgary, Canada writes: Teach my kids french so they can do government work? I think not..
  43. Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: Jojo. The biggest lie in the history of Canada was the lie that spawned Bill 101, that racist bill in Quebec that basically outlawed English. At the time of that Bill 101 in 1970 only 5% of the entire school age population of Quebec was in English schools. 95% of the student population wa in French schools. The French language in Quebec was NEVER under threat...never. In 1970 1,250,000 kids were in French schools and only 250,000 were in English schools. Bill 101 was a racist Bill designed to ethnically Quebec of anglo-celts. If you want the link to the statistics they are here. Remember that in Quebec, the majority language school is French and the minority language school is English when you look at the charts.

    http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/lo-ol/pubs/2003-2004/ra-ar/7_e.cfm

    Basically, Jo Jo I don't believe much of what the French say, especially when their lie about the French language being threatened was their reason for Bill 101....the biggest lie in the history of the country.
  44. philip raitz from Calgary, Canada writes: Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada wrote: Lisa Jones, what this study points out is that it makes no sense paying billions to teach middle-aged bureaucrats a second language. You have to teach the second language early.

    'My point...I'm sick of our tax dollars going to fund enforced bilingualism crap' I think you are saying something like that Lisa although not very articulately Duh.
  45. al goguen from Victoria, B.C, Canada writes: I don't completely agree with this new finding that babies can discern languages. Jean Chrétien when he was on a campaign trail, now man times he tried to talk to young children, they didn'understand him either in French or in English. As matter of fact, I don't think that any of us understood him either. Too bad that he didn't supervise his team with an iron fight, but in politics it doesn't seem to matter if your're a Liberal or Conservative. Oh, I could have added NDP. Here in B.C we had several NDP Premiers who were crooks.
  46. R Wolovet from New York, United States writes: As an outsider, I probably should not comment on this subject, but I will. I have noticed on my dozen or so visits to various provinces of Canada that Canadians are not generally bilingual, and some are hostile to the idea of speaking the language not in general use where they live and work. I grew up bi-lingual and learned a third language in school, which latter is very useful. My children grew up bi-lingual in English and my third language. My daughter found it easy then to learn a third,and she is now trilingual, which gave her an opportunity to fill a fabulous job. While educational resources must always be allocated wisely, I think learning a second language, together with the history, literature and culture of that language is a positive experience, although if you do not use the language, you will lose facility in it. I also think English has the easiest grammar of all. Therefore, many grammatical errors are made because we do not focus on grammar and do not know it. You learn more about grammar, tenses, participles, etc., when you learn them even in another language. If you master French grammar, I'll bet you would never say 'he should have went.' On the question of language versus science, physicians used to have to learn some Latin, and I don't think it took away from their science. Apologies to all who think I do not belong in this discussion.
  47. JC perfide from Paris, France writes: I knew an AngloFrench Canadian family where kids were speaking French at home and English elsewhere. It was a total disaster for they could speak correctly neither language and needed the help of an orthophonist. From my experience I think that Children should not learn a second language before 8 or 9. I am curious to get a professional opinion.
  48. Charlene Cummings from Canada writes: If I remember my history correctly, the Native Canadians were already here when the French arrived, so unless we start 'forcing' all Canadians to learn to speak Cree, then I think we should back off on the French.

    And living in Ottawa, being that our industry is government, language is a giant pain in the butt. There are soooo many better ways we could be spending all that cash. How about Health Care. I believe both English and French would benefit. How about all the seniors, again English and French. There are many of them coming down the pipe and could use the cash. Education?? Child care?? Surely there is a better way that would benefit people, instead of just making them angry??
  49. philip raitz from Calgary, Canada writes: JC perfide from Paris you would not find much science that supports your rediculous opinion.
  50. Leon Russell from Canada writes: Hey Philip Raitz, when you say ' I think you are saying something like that Lisa although not very articulately Duh. ' That cuts to the quick. The day I say anything even remotely close to what she says is the day when Jesus comes again. A federal government employee should know French, at least the little bit that they expect you to in the government. They serve people in both languages. Just like an architect should learn math. Otherwise, I don't know what 'enforced bilingualism' she could be talking about. I say give Canadians a chance to be functionally bilingual by putting the money into programs aimed at children and continuing through high school. Then make sure political science students are bilingual too by offering programs with mandatory French courses in them. I somehow get the idea Lisa Jones is against official bilingualism, whether they use the funds efficiently or not. That having been said, working for the government is not the main reason to learn French. The main reason is to discover a whole other culture and people, with their excellent movies, TV, radio, music, literature, etc. And to discover more about oneself.
  51. jamie yavis from bc, Canada writes: Is it just me or is the G&M turning into a giant ball of fluff?
  52. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: And So The Story Continues as Meg, the Moose and the Mountie.... from Canada writes: ... instead of streamlining people to learn a specific language, allow them to explore other languages to learn such as chinese, japanese, spanish, russian, etc., and you may find that they will crave to learn even more languages or at least develop an interest in communicating in other languages. -- Your comment is laughable at best. Only la Nouvelle France has a fair proportion of its population that is bilingual, within Canada. English speaking Canadians who, for decades now (since 1867? -- more than a century?), have never had any intention to communicate with their compatriots in French are unlikely to learn any other language. As a matter of fact they have not and they do nott. While countless Europeans (very ordinary people) can handle four and five languages, English speaking Canadians can still, overwhelmingly, handle only one, English. That is why your grandgrandchildren will be long dead before English speaking Canadians manage to learn Chinese, Japanese and Russian. Simply too complex and difficult. You can take my word for it: I spent five years learning Russian at McGill (most iif not all students learning Russian with me were French speaking!)... but I knew French (and Latin) and had studied English and German, prior to that. Learning a language is a matter of willing to learn it and to communicate with people whose language it is, to know their culture, how they think, feel, etc.. The will and the curiosity are generally not there to learn French, in Canada (despite the Montreal love-ins). That is very much a reflection of ignorance , when not of fanaticism plain and simple. Children in Nouvelle France learn both French and English. My young neighbours are currently learning Spanish and Mandarin. Four languages. But that is Nouvelle France. -- Yours was a good joke, though. Post again. We enjoy laughing here.
  53. Charlene Cummings from Canada writes: Hey Henriette

    Glad you're where you are. Stay there
  54. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: Henriette Heroux: Wow, you nailed that one! Touché.
  55. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: Charlene Cummings, as the great humanist Erasmus pointed out to Zwingli, in his correspondence, 'I am a citizen of the world'. You have nothing to worry about: I avoid like the plague the few xenophobic regions that remain in this world, yet still find the place ever so vast, wonderful and hospitable! Leaving for France Sunday.

  56. JC perfide from Paris, France writes:
    I do understand that one should learn to read his own tongue before jumping to another one.
    This is an example of cultural desert :

    Improved literacy key to improved productivity in labour force
    By KRISTEN HARDING
    Jul 28, 2006, 22:33
    If literacy rates don’t improve, Alberta is destined to fall behind, becoming less productive and less competitive in the global, technologically-driven economy that has emerged, says a provincial literacy advocate.
    &8220;We can&8217;t afford to be complacent about the fact that our literacy rates are middle of the road,&8221; said Janet Lane, executive director of Literacy Alberta, adding about 40 per cent of Albertans lack the necessary literacy skills to meet the increasing demands of a knowledge-based society and compete in the workforce.

    http://www.policychannel.com/Apages/Literacy.php
  57. N. C. from Canada writes: Lisa Jones - what are you going on about, losing good doctors and scientistis to French classes? Where is your evidence that hundreds of brilliant potential scientists 'flunk out' of school because of mandatory french requirements?? Anyone who can don a lab coat can easily manage to struggle through and pass a class teaching them to wield a language at a 4-year-old's proficiency level...

    After all, the mandatory french classes in western Canadian elementary schools could be passed by a sleepwalker....and French is no longer mandatory in secondary school. My little sister just hit grade 9 and she is not required to take French. Credit for a basic second language is required for a Bachelor's degree, but universities do not require French to be that second language - you have a choice between many. I've never met a single person who had to drop out of University because they couldn't handle the language requirement. So don't opine mindlessly about that which you know nothing about.

    This article isn't about politics anyways - this forum has somehow managed to drag political baggage and intolerance into a lovely story about how remarkable an infant's brain and language acquisition mechanisms truly are. This story isn't about Quebec and bilingualism in Canada - it's about BABIES, and the wonders of the human mind.
  58. dee jay from Calgary, Canada writes: I'm unilingual and I can tell the difference between someone speaking English and French while muted, and I'm much older than eight months. When speaking English, the person would be sitting rigid, looking barely human, and when they switched to French they'd suddenly be waving their arms all over the place. A change like that would certainly catch anyone's attention. ;)
  59. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Of course the babies could tell the difference just by looking and without sound. Have you ever watched a french guy talk...their hands are flailing around all over the place, I guess the babies found that funny. :)
  60. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: 'This story isn't about Quebec and bilingualism in Canada - it's about BABIES, and the wonders of the human mind. ' You're right, but Lisa just drags us into it...
  61. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: JC perfide from Paris, France writes: I knew an AngloFrench Canadian family where kids were speaking French at home and English elsewhere. It was a total disaster for they could speak correctly neither language and needed the help of an orthophonist. From my experience I think that Children should not learn a second language before 8 or 9. I am curious to get a professional opinion. -- JC, here is my NON professional opinion, for what it is worth. I regret very much not having had my daughter learn English 'from birth' (e.g. father speaks English and mother speaks French to the infant). I was told, had read and believed there was a risk she would never master French (her native language) and that she would likely be all mixed up, linguistically, for the rest of her life. I was not prepared to take that risk. She therefore began learning English only at age 6-7, as a second language. Children I have known who were raised as bilingual people did not become mixed up linguistically. Far from it. Typically, I understand young children will spontaneously speak in the language their parent speaks to them in. I am told it becomes so natural to them that they find it strange, at first, that other families do not operate as bilingual units, like their own!... My daughter now teaches French, is fluent in four languages, but of course does not master English quite like a native. I feel responsible for that and regret having done as I did, at the time. My little neighbours know English like natives just because they had English speaking nannies. One of them I know has developed great linguistic abilities: He is currently studying Spanish and Mandarin (he's twelve? thirteen?). For the record: his college (one of the best here) authorities believe it is too much...). You may want to check but I seem to remember reading credible authorities do favour, these days, raising infants as bilingual people.
  62. And So The Story Continues as Meg, the Moose and the Mountie.... from Canada writes: Ms.Heroux: Your response to my comments as laughable are the very reason why the majority of the citizens in this country feel that french is essentially a dead language and a colossal waste of time to attempt to learn. French is a minority language that gets far too much in the area of government spending and this is only possible because our civil service is over populated with francophone first language employees. If our civil service were aligned with quotas reflecting the number of francophones in a specific area then we would see a fair and balanced number of employees in each area and the need for everyone to have to speak french to serve the five people who live in that area. Case in point. Acadian population in Nova Scotia represents 3% of the total population yet they get far more government money than they should because of this perception that because they speak one of the official languages, they should get a disportionate amount of tax dollars. What Acadian interests in Nova Scotia should get is the 3% of the tax dollars they contribute to the provincial coffers. You are right in that people learn languages for their own satisfaction or gain and why anyone would want to speak a dying language other than to get a civil servant job, is a mystery. Besides when Canada, Mexico and the U.S. merge into one country, french will be replaced as the second official language as there are 100 times as many spanish speakers as there are who speak french and even a lesser degree of those that speak that corruption of french known as Quebecois.
  63. C. Fletcher from Canada writes: I can't help notice that the majority of those who oppose government-funded initiatives to encourage bilingualism tend to have English names. Living in Ottawa and being close to the federal public service, it is something you also notice everyday. I wonder if that tells us something?

    In any case, I wish the opponents of bilingualism could spend one day trying to deal with or work in the federal public service strictly in French. I would bet a lot of money (seriously) that after that most of you would be asking for a more serious bilingual policy for federal public servants.
  64. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: C. Fletcher from Canada........Actually I did work in the Federal public service in Ottawa and I am not bilingual.

    The fact that you suggest that we should have to work for the Federal government in French only shows exactly what is wrong with bilingualism.

    20% of the country speaks french as a first language yet 90% of the people I worked with were french.....does that make sense to you?

    Bilingualism is being used to discriminate against english workers in the public service of Canada
  65. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: And So The Story Continues as Meg, the Moose and the Mountie.... from Canada writes: ... the majority of the citizens in this country feel that french is essentially a dead language and a colossal waste of time to attempt to learn... . why anyone would want to speak a dying language other than to get a civil servant job, is a mystery. -- You said it, the majority of your compatriots are ignorant. Go read about France, the Francophonie and its role in the world, as well as the status of French, as a second language and culturally, in so many countries in the world. Teach yourself the answers to your questions, so you can teach the majority of those you state, quite rightly, are your ignorant compatriots.
  66. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: And So The Story Continues as Meg, the Moose and the Mountie says: ' that corruption of french known as Quebecois' And what about that corruption of English known as Canadian English?? Examples : ' Doncha' ', 'Whacha doon', 'gonna'. You certainly don't speak the Queen's English and, for that matter, neither do most Brits. You find French tough so you find excuses not to learn it. Believe me, the argot spoken on the streets of Paris would be no easier to learn. Who actually speaks 'Parisian French' anyway? There are many levels of language in all languages. Quebecois French can be spoken very well or very badly, just like your regional English (nothing like British English). And there's nothing more beautiful than the gentle fricatives of a belle Québécoise (the 'ts' sounds on the tus and the 'ti's).
  67. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: FOR THE RECORD! In America, languages have come to differ from what they now are, in the mother countries. North American English is not English as in England. Spanish, in the Americas, is not Spanish as in Spain. French, in the Americas, is not French as in France. I suspect that Portuguese, in the Americas, is also not Portuguese as in Portugal. Linguistically, the colonies went on with their own development, their own separate way, for centuries; yet, with strong links to the mother country, linguistically and culturally. These are American realities anyone in the Americas who knows anything about anything should bear in mind, more particularly if working in the media...
  68. Arzie Chant from Canada writes: Lisa 'the french police are going to show up at your door and make you eat poutine' Jones would have us believe that all French Canadians live only in Quebec and are part of some vast government conspiracy to make us all learn French. What a joke!

    The fact is that there are francophones and anglophones all over Canada. One can easily get by in Montreal knowing English only, and in fact, many do just that! As for the other side, there are French communities all over! Eastern and Northern Ontario, Welland, between London and Windsor, the Acadians in NB and NS, the southwest of Nlfd., St. Boniface in Manitoba, the Franco-Sasks in Saskatchewan, etc., etc. They are just as Canadian as you and I. I love learning about them and knowing they learn about us, too. We are not two solitudes. We are one nation. One people. Canadians.
  69. JC perfide from Paris, France writes:
    Henriette: Thank you for your contribution although I am still sceptical about exposing infants to a multilingual environment. From your experience I must admit that there are instances where it does pays off but as you first thought, it might be risky. I am concerned with parts of a language which are contradictory to another language, for instance rolling the R like in Spanish or Arabic contradicts the Parisian R or the English R. Both the brain and the mouth learn a specific rolling. I don’t say it is impossible to operate simultaneously both R but it is very difficult to do it perfectly. I wonder if any infant is able to achieve it.
  70. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: JC perfide from Paris, France : I am still sceptical ... -- I know... and it is a subject of consequence in the lives of our loved ones... What can I add? Perhaps we should look more at the children of immigrants. Many preserve their own language, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc. yet master French and English like natives. There are more and more of those people around and their success is truly impressive. Mind you, is it so important, in the end, to be PERFECTLY multilingual? I remember Bernard Pivot, on 'Double Je' (TV5), interviewing immigrant writers to France, from remote parts of the world, who wrote in French, published in France and were acclaimed; they did not speak French flawlessly and without accent. Did I care? Not really. Would you? I imagine not. One final point though, in relation to the above article. There seem to be sounds, in Chinese for instance, that infants hear but that we come not to hear anymore (or with difficulty), later in life. That would be one reason for having infants hear all such sounds often, 'internalize them' as they say, and learn the language early, 'sooner than later.... I'm off. Nice 'talking' with you, JC.
  71. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle France, Canada writes: Lisa Jones : 'Only la Nouvelle France has a fair proportion of its population that is bilingual, within Canada.' What planet do you live on? -- Detailled statistics were published by the Globe, recently. That's the planet I had in mind. You write too much anti Nouvelle France stuff, Lisa. You therefore miss some interesting facts, even when they literally stare you in the face.
  72. Sheila Nice from New Brunswick, Canada writes: I attended french immersion all during my school years, graduated as 'bilingual'. I am now 26, and cannot write french, let alone speak it.
  73. C. Fletcher from Canada writes: Craig Scott, with all due respect, I don't think you understood my comment at all. Perhaps you read it too quick. If you go back and read it again, you will realize that I did NOT 'suggest that we should have to work for the Federal government in French only.' I simply pointed out that if some English-speaking folks could live for one day in the shoes of their French-speaking counterparts they would probably come to realize that bilingual policies in the federal public service is not a waste of time and money.

    Anyway, you noted in your reply that 90% of the people you worked with (I assume in your unit) as a former public servant were French. Still, I am sure that your meetings were mostly conducted in English. In addition, your situation, I'm sure, was an exception since in the public service overall there is a higher proportion of English-speaking employees than French-speaking ones.
  74. Naughta Doormat from Canada writes: Sheila Nice,
    I know of many,many students who spent their entire schooling in French Immersion,who also can't speak,understand or write in French.
    Waste of public spending perhaps?
  75. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: Living in Montreal for five years, on average most people I met my age spoke at 2 languages fluently, if not three or four, and at least with English and French (the ones I knew, not speaking Chinese or Arabic), it was as often as not fluent and unaccented in both. From my experience growing up (in Ontario) with half of us speaking two or three languages, the cases where someone suffers from 'semi-bilingualism' are few and far between (in fact, I've yet to meet someone like that, although presumably they exist), while those who benefit and often maintain a lifetime ease of learning new languages -- standard.
  76. Sheila Nice from New Brunswick, Canada writes: Naughta Definately!! I believe someone said earlier that maybe the money should be spent elsewhere on things such as health care, child care, hmmm.. even maybe better roads, which would benefit everybody.
  77. Sheila Nice from New Brunswick, Canada writes: I also meant to mention that some subjects are hard enough to learn, let alone learn them in french. You spend so much time trying to understand the french, wow, did i even get the math? lol
  78. Rob Wiebe from Gatineau, Canada writes: This isn't really news. We all rely on facial gestures and mouth movements to truly understand langauge. Deaf people, especially those who use sign language, will tell you that facial gestures and mouth movements impart important grammatical messages. It makes sense that children would also be sensitive to these.

    More useless UBC research.

    -R
  79. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: French 'immersion' -- yeah, I attended too, in my case starting only at the age of ten, and it is far from being what it's intended to be. You are immersed in a classroom of.... 30 anglophone children! And a bilingual teacher who teaches in french but more often than not bows to public pressure and uses english when not in front of the blackboard. Not exactly an immersive language learning environment, although most of the kids in my class learned to understand french fairly well when they heard it. Only a few who were independently motivated learned to speak it, although if they wanted, the teachers would help. To learn a language you need to spend a bit of time in an environment where it's actually used 'for real'.
  80. stand up mimi from Canada writes: I think it's great to expose children to several languages while they are young and can absorb more of the nuances than older people can. Like some others, I do wonder about literacy, though. Can young children learn to read and write well in more than one language at a time or is this confusing to them? I know of several parents who are making sure their kids become literate in one language before moving on to the next, but is there any scientific backing for this? I have heard people complain that French immersion schools mean their kids aren't great at writing in either English or French, but is this the result of immersion, or are their kids just generally not as good at languages as some others? I grew up in a unilingual house and learned French in high school, for which I am very grateful. I'm not exactly fluent, but it opened a door to a different way of understanding the world. The debate about bilingualism is silly - it's nothing less than an asset to speak more than one language. And I agree with the person who said that knowing other languages helps you understand your own much better. Anyway, French is not a minor language globally, or nationally. It might surprise a few people to know that my part of town - in BC, no less - is historically a Francophone neighbourhood, and still has many French speakers living there.
  81. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Qc, Canada writes: If the only exposure is through immersion schooling, and if the French is not continued through high school and on into daily life, it will be forgotten . What immersion does is that is gives the basic baggage in French so that someone who wants to make the effort later can more easily learn and develop their skills. If you want to go into politics you can be a Stephen Harper (someone who was able to develop his French because he had the basics from immersion and from French day camps and activities). Babies are blank slates linguistically, and they can learn to make and understand a wide array of sounds, enough for two or three languages, at least. But as the dominant language cristallizes it becomes more difficult. Even at 6 years old the habits of the mother tongue make it harder to learn the second language. And the language children PLAY in is usually the one they learn the best. However, there are myriad ways to incorporate the second language into one's life: read the news in French daily, use the French option on the DVD movie, with or without the captions, listen to the radio or watch TV in French. Make it part of your daily life. Cree would also be a great language to learn, though that would be tougher.
  82. free thinker (you get what you pay for) from Canada writes: Lisa Jones of the Anglo-Celtic nation within a nation from Canada writes: ''At the time of that Bill 101 in 1970 only 5% of the entire school age population of Quebec was in English schools. 95% of the student population wa in French schools. (...) In 1970 1,250,000 kids were in French schools and only 250,000 were in English schools.'' *** You mean to say you missed out on language AND math too!
  83. Manuel Berlanga from Toronto, writes: Funny, originaly, France was populated by Celts, then the Celts languages got together with Latin to form ancient and then modern French. Same happend in Celtic England before William the Conquer's Anglo-Saxon barbars invade the isles. Are the Celt-French learning Asterix's language too? Other than listening to Enya, is that useful?
  84. Rick Czarnota from Calgary, writes: I would never say that knowing more than one language is bad or detrimental.

    However even in an officially bilingual country such as Canada multilingualism has little practical value unless you live in Quebec or wish to pursue a government or overseas job. Neither appeals to me so the 8 years I spent learning French in school are basically a waste.

    Brian Van Ezel the Canadian gov't already does spend billions on bilingualism and it doesn't really do any good. The reality is French will never be the common language spoken in by 75% of Canadians, and it will never be used in the workplace outside of Quebec, gov't jobs in Ottawa and a select few areas of the country.

    Bilingualism or multilingualism certainly won't do harm to anyone, but the benefits in Canada are extremely exaggerated.
  85. Manuel Berlanga from Toronto, writes: Is 250,000 5% of 1,500,000? You not only failed French but also Math...
  86. Manuel Berlanga from Toronto, writes: Henriette Heroux, I beg to differ. My in-laws are from New France and only my wife and father in law are able to speak to me in English. From the dozen or so of my wife's friends, only a couple speak to me in Engl