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The economic challenge of age

HEALTHER SCOFFIELD

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:58 AM EDT 20/06/08

Within a decade, Statscan says, there won't be enough young people to replace those leaving the work force ...Read the full article

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  1. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: This article states: "The most obvious solutions are for companies to find ways to prevent employees from retiring early, and for governments to increase immigration."

    Most companies have already started this by eliminating pensions or changing them from defined benefit to defined contribution plans which puts all the risk on the employee. The next step will be to cut wages so very few will be able to save for retirement.

    I think most companies are in for a big shock when the in demand young workers demand higher pay and a shorter work week with more vacation time. They will need a lot more income to pay the increased taxes due to the out of control health care cost brought on by aging baby boomers who are used to having it all.

    Money will not be able to buy seniors the care they need when no workers are available to help them. Only the extremely rich will get proper care as they age.

    I would recommend that everyone stay on good terms with your children since they will likely be your only real means of support in your old age.
  2. blow joe from Quebec city, writes: Canada: 13.7% of old people
    Italy: 19.4%
    Germany: 19.7%
    Japan: 20%
    Niger: 2.6%
    Mali: 2.5%
    Afghanistan: 2.4%

    older we are, richer we get....
  3. Rob Misek from Canada writes: As people age they should be helped to change careers.

    Young people have more energy and the capacity to learn quickly and as we get older we have more life experience and are often wiser.

    Young people should still choose a career and work in their field of interest through their prime but as they age they should be offered careers in education, training, politics and social services where their life experience and wisdom could be shared with more youth.

    Everyone including the aged should also be invited to participate more in social discussions including online blogs.

    As far as Canada’s low birthrate is concerned, choosing life and more emphasis on responsible family values will go a long way.
  4. Rob Misek from Canada writes: Put another way, how many of your aging bosses are sitting atop and defending their inefficient empires until retirement?

    How many young managers adopt this behavior as their plan for success?

    How does this vicious circle help the business or our economy?
  5. Robert Boyd from Windsor, Canada writes: We can at least take comfort knowing our politicians pension plans will still be safe.
  6. Karine Private from Canada writes: I think that Rob Masek is absolutely right regarding helping people to switch/supplement careers. I am 40 now and thinking how to supplement my career with new profession. Being software developer with great experience and currently in demand I am not interested in moving "up" and becoming manager or CIO, besides I truly enjoy developing actual code design and architecture for large system. But I guessed that in 10 years times it will be hard for me to spend 10 hours on a computer daily - which is a usual workday time when you are in a project with strict deadlines. So I started to investigate possible ways to supplement my skills in a way that I would still enjoy programming, but would also need to spend less time in front of the computer. The best, as I saw it, was to get extra degree in psychology and "branch" into the developing of computerized psychological help. Being also a part time artist, I planned to combine colour therapy, computers and psychology. I even prepared some ideas in that regards. But when I looked at the process of getting such extra degree at UofT it made it close to impossible: they only encourage young people to apply. Average study time seems to be in a range of 8 years and price is almost prohibitive. So it looks like I will continue to write code till very old age and my other skills might be left un-utilized by society.
  7. John S from Toronto, Canada writes: Funny that demographics is what will bring the western world down. Bringing women into the workforce had the negative long term effect of people having less children and now we are faced with that problem. Obviously this is a not a problem in the middle east, china, or india.

    So in the end it will be social values that will bring the west down. That is pretty funny considering military spending, the media, and all of our so called freedoms.
  8. Maria Gatti from Montreal, Canada writes: Women's autonomy has greatly increased the number of qualified workers in Western industrial societies - this contradicts the fear-mongering spread by the self-named "choose life" group (i.e. forcing women to pursue pregnancy and motherhood with no regard to our choices).

    By the way, I'm ten years older than karine, and I still often work ten hours or more on my computer when there are tight deadlines. And if health permits, will be doing so in ten and even twenty years.
  9. Cecilia L from Toronto, Canada writes: This boomer issue has been on headlines for a while now. As an early 30s young professional (if you can call me young), I am already feeling the stress on realizing my parents retirement and deteriorating health, while having a tough time saving enough to get a mortgage of my own, forming a family and have children seems to be a far fetch for me, as much as I would love to have children some time soon (I am getting old too for having kids). Also there has been talks about young professional and arrogancy. After a few years of very low salary raise along with inflation, the younger professionals will soon realized that there is just not enough money to pay what they think they worth. After all, the education system teaches us an ideal that is not of the real world.
  10. Tim Bee from Canada writes: You can rest assured that Big Business will find some way to screw younger, in demand workers.
    They are plotting right now.
  11. King's Knight from Canada writes: No matter how you shuffle the cards, juggle the numbers, spin
    the story, the bodies just aren't there to replace those who
    plan to retire. The immigration lie spun by previous federal administrations is coming home to roost. Stats Canada has confirmed it. The Omnibus Bill of 1969 coupled with the SCOC's 1988 decision on abortion were key factors in sewing a seed that has resulted in reaping a most unpleasant whirlwind.
  12. CPT America from United States writes: Abortions, self loathing, proud of you Canada!
  13. Hugh Draper from Canada writes: This story is getting really old. It will work out just fine, so let's move on.
  14. Rick Drysdale from Sidney, Canada writes: "John S from Toronto, Canada writes: Funny that demographics is what will bring the western world down. Bringing women into the workforce had the negative long term effect of people having less children and now we are faced with that problem. Obviously this is a not a problem in the middle east, china, or india"

    What are you talking about ? All these countries have a high percentage of women in the workforce . The birthrate in China is almost zip.

    If anything having both sexes to draw from is a plus. Relegating all women to only working in the house and raising children is wrong an very archaic thinking.

    This is a story that comes up about every ten years or so and nothing has changed. It is the social engineers who want to model our society after some ideal pattern who are behind it IMHO.

    Let people do what they want , work not work, retire, or not stop the screwing around with our lives and I bet things will work out better than if some pointy heads meddle.
  15. Wilma De Bruyn from Toronto, Canada writes: You can make sure that the politicians and government employees receive a hefty retirement and the public serfs are lucky to stay afloat from pay cheque to paycheque or look after their aged parents.
    Especially in BC they can change the legislation at a whim and bingo! there may be your inheritance vaporized by the politicians or their cronies,
    all under the protection of the Judges? Could that be why Wally Opal is in
    Victoria, to make sure it is done legally? And years down the road-no pension folks. Especially when the Olympics are coming to town, we must make a killing on the real estate, after all, their looking after their best interest, not yours, the citizens of BC, they should really call BC, Washington No. 2 of U S of A. That is the main reason the public serfs must stay longer in the work force, and do not forget we must all pay for all the scandals as they have "diplomatic immunity".
  16. Michael Bonazza from Toronto, Canada writes: It sure would be nice to not have to service billions of dollars in Federal debt left from Trudeau era socialist idealist nonsense. Maybe then we would be in a better position to provide necessary public services to seniors. The boomers borrowed lots of money and left their kids with the bill. Thanks a lot.
  17. Rick Drysdale from Sidney, Canada writes: Michael Bonazza
    Where have you been for the past 30 years?

    Maybe you could do a bit of research before posting nonsense like that.
  18. Michael Bonazza from Toronto, Canada writes: Rick: Just because some of the debt didn't acrue during the Trudeau era doesn't mean the policies and philosophy developed in that era aren't responsible for it. The spending policies put in place during that time put huge fiscal strain on public finances during times when the economy wasn't doing well. This is in contrast to the 70's when the economy was doing well, which accounts for modest deficits during that time. However, when the Bank of Canada induced recessions in the 80's to fight inflation, federal revenues decreased and the social spending policies implemented Trudeau era caused huge deficits. Of course everyone blamed Mulroney for this, even though it was the GST he implemented that eventually fixed fiscal finances once the economy was strong again. Of course Paul Martin took credit for this. Of course these are not the only factors that have contributed to Federal debt, but they are very important. In any event, fiscal spending is undoubtedly the cause for Federal debt and you can blame leftist (Trudeau like) policies for that regardless of what time period they were implemented. How is that research?

    Have a nice day.
  19. Rick Drysdale from Sidney, Canada writes: Michael Bonazza
    Not a word of it is researched and it is only your opinion.
  20. Michael Bonazza from Toronto, Canada writes: Rick; Is the supporting data my opinion? I didn't feel the need to cite it, I can't be bothered for this message board.
  21. Dr Demento from Canada writes: CPT America from United States writes "Abortions, self loathing, proud of you Canada!"

    A very strange comment considering that the USA has almost twice as many abortions per capita as Canada.

    http://tinyurl.com/y53d6c
  22. Dan Green from Toronto, Canada writes: All this conversation about seniors staying in the workforce is nonsense.

    The Boomers made sure anyone in their way, faced early retirement. Corporations loved it. Do the math. Raises and benefits, of anyone over fifty, could usually be replaced with a salary half that of the retiree, and benefit cost go down, as younger folks do not use as many drugs, and do not have kids, using dental plans. Percentage of wages corporations have to pay on income, into a pension plans also drops, on the lower salary replacement wage.
  23. Rob Misek from Canada writes: Why should seniors face forced retirement when they have no other alternatives? This is exactly the case for many today who can't handle the stress or pace in their current positions.

    If both you and your company were mutually satisfied to maintain your position well into old age, that is your business. Carry on, but not everyone will be in that boat.

    I am suggesting that seniors should have the opportunity to return something to the community before leaving this world and maybe learn something new at the same time.

    By teaching or counselling our youth, or employing our wisdom and experience in the political arena we may receive less monetary reward but our society as a whole would be better off than by simply have us selfishly continue building our estates until we can work no more.

    I for one would like my children to have teachers, social workers and politicians with real wisdom and life experience instead of those with only school smarts and the desire to entrench themselves atop their own personal empires until retirement.
  24. Sue Shaw from Port Alice, Canada writes: This article is inaccurate, because the census is likely inaccurate, with no accountability in the process. Each household is left to its own devices filling out these forms, likely leaving hundreds of thousands of uncounted immigrants, especially in BC. House prices reflect overpopulation--not underpopulation. We don’t have a labour shortage—we have a wage shortage. There are few decent, steady and well-paid jobs with benefits, holidays and pension plans left. Those jobs have flown to 3rd world sweatshops by rich investors wanting to be richer. We buy our former products from abroad, paying Canadian prices for them. The quality is less, requiring frequent replacement, adding to household costs. Today, less taxes come in to pay for social services, like healthcare which has been purposely underfunded since Mulroney. Such things add up to cost each household more. After WWII, Canadians proved capable of replenishing our population, but today's Canadians cannot afford to have kids. So we should not be taking in the world’s population overflow. Employers have laid off workers, piling the work on top of the remaining staff, who wind up labouring one-and-a-half jobs or more. People burn out long before 55 and are not lasting to retirement. I’m talking mostly about grunt labour jobs--maintenance, industrial, fast-food, janitorial, healthcare and social work, but teachers, also, need to retire while still sane:). While work piles up for workers, we see the proliferation of unnecessary, grossly overpaid managers worldwide. What a waste! We should not have to labour until we drop. We need to retire while we’re still healthy enough to enjoy retirement. Our kids should have a chance at a decent life. The environment and wildlife need to recover from industrial squalor. So the rich need to curb their shallow aspirations of acquiring more wealth at the expense of everyone and everything else.
  25. Another Voice from United States writes: Sue Shaw: I disagree that housing costs reflect population. If there's one thing not in short supply in Canada, it's land. House prices are determined far more by interest rates, zoning laws, and the cost of construction and labour.

    If you go to mls.ca, you can find great land for a song. However, building on that land and constructing the needed infrastructure is very expensive, and not because of the cost of materials. In fact, if you're willing to do the hard labour and live like a frontiersman it's not expensive.
  26. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Michael Bonazza writes, "Is the supporting data my opinion? I didn't feel the need to cite it, ..." Unfortunately, the real data is that Canada's national (federal-only) debt has gone under $500 Billion while gross country debt (federal, provincial, municipal) is about to go under $800 Billion. While not a fan of the spending spree mostly done under Trudeau, a worse fate would be the Bush borrowing spree where after inheriting a $6 Trillion national debt, their number could top $9 Trillion by Labour Day (gross country debt estimated up to $20 Trillion by The Economist). Debt-to-GDP ratio, US is now a third higher than Canada so no shelter there, either.
  27. Sue Shaw from Port Alice, Canada writes: To Another Voice from the States: Canada is not like the States. Our climate is harsh in 99% of it. Much of our country is inhabitable and infertile. You need many square miles to live off the land. Then there are taxes. Many farmers have gone bankrupt and sold out to Agribusiness and Frankenfood companies. Frontiersman? My fave, but you still can't just squat where you want. Besides. to live in the wild, you need perfect health and you better never get hurt. I live in a tiny, remote village, with few amenities. We have electricity, running water, cable TV, internet, a small grocery store, eateries and a gas station (at last). No hospital, anymore (thanks to this government) and the school only goes up to grade 9. Sometimes, cougars and bears come into town to pick off a pet or two, and take a swipe at one of us. You can't just go for a walk in the woods when you feel like it! Housing is, indeed, cheap here, but nobody is buying. The weather is wet all year. Summer happens on August 11th, between 2 and 4. We try not to miss it:) So although Canada is big, it cannot support a large population as well as the USA can. We've overpopulated ourselves beyond the land's ability to provide. We're fast using up our scarce arable land for residences and shopping malls. In my village, it's hard to grow anything, but trees--and that is what supported us all before--until the corporations decided to cut down our trees and export them raw, without employing as many of us anymore. Same with the fishing. I can't wait to see NAFTA gone!
  28. Tony Aristocles from Longview, Canada writes: There is a very simple solution to this apparent problem—Do nothing. Let the market decide. If some businesses cannot attract and retain workers and make a profit, let those businesses die. O Horrors! There’ll will be job losses. Yes, there will be losses of the jobs which nobody wants. Why should we worry about it? Not to worry, not too much. Experience recommends this approach for three reasons. The story says “While companies and governments can take steps to mitigate the effects of a quickly aging work force, the only way improvements in Canada's standard of living can be maintained is through major gains in productivity — gains that have proved elusive for the past decade, despite repeated efforts by policy makers and corporate leaders.” Which is to say government intervention is ineffective, and corporate leaders are more show than go. The other reason we should let the problem work itself out is the factor of the Sorcerer’s Apprentices: Chant a spell that the people will believe, then do whatever you want. We cannot trust government, especial this deceitful Tory government, to give us the straight goods. The story says “The most obvious solutions are for companies to find ways to prevent employees from retiring early, and for governments to increase immigration.” Horse-feathers! In fact, what is happening is that Flaherty is ensuring many Canadians will have to work longer before retirement because they will not have enough retirement savings. There’s a third, and very practical, reason. The story says “But even the most successful measures in those areas will make only marginal differences to work-force dynamics.” So, whatever ‘they’ do will be harmful or useless. Hence: Do nothing, please.
  29. Rob Misek from Canada writes: Do nothing? You must be a Liberal.
  30. Pearls before Swine from Anytown, Canada writes: Damn! Just a couple of years ago the next generation (can't recall whether they're called X, or Y, or Z, or whatever) was complaining that we boomers were squatting in the best jobs, and maliciously keeping the end-of-alphabet generation from the quality of life to which they were clearly entitled. Being a fair person, I decided to retire ASAP. Now it seems I'm only going to be a burden on society for the rest of my miserable, worthless life. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
  31. Wet Back In Canada from Canada writes: And the old people will die and the price of housing will collapse and the young people of Canada will enjoy the richest lifestyle anywhewre buying houses for a song. l
  32. Tony Aristocles from Longview, Canada writes: In today's Globe & Mail print edition , the editors express a very disagreeable opinion (no need to look for the opinion on-line, since it is worthless.) The editors approve of a recent recommendation from the Senate to put a 10% penalize on those who take CPP before age 65. This is laughable. Parliament has the least productivity and the best pensions in all the world. So there is this terrible irony of men and women whose cost to society is nearly unbearable, and whose benefit to society is nano-scopic, recommending that men and women who have made pension contributions for over 42 years be penalized.

    Any why? The (expletive deleted) editors say: "to help ease the approaching crisis..." of barely enough people approaching working age "to replace those reaching retirement age now."

    Let me say this about that. You useless bozos in the press and Parliament did not shed even a tear for the countless people who when young were unemployed and under-employed. Now that your profits or comforts are jeopardized, you care. Well sc*** you guys!
  33. Douglas MacDONALD from edmontonedmonton, Canada writes: It will all work out fine its still comes down to supply and demand the less demand the less need for workers as the population decreses the entire world environment will improve and supply will keep pace with demand and the amount of avilable workers.
  34. Ryan Fillmore from Sackville, Canada writes: This problem is not going be solved by allowing people to work past 65 or by allowing more damn immigrants into this country. If Canada wants to fix the problem with Canada's aging population, then you need to do things that make born and bred Canadians want to have children. What are those things? 1 - elimination of all income taxes for incomes of $25,000.00 or less. 2 - maternity leave pay should be 100%, not 55% as current for non-government employees. 3 - government funded day care - if you want people to work, pay for people to baby sit their kids. 4 - reduction in education costs, elimination of tution for post secondary. I have several friends who simply cannot afford to have a house, car, and kids. Its one or none for them and myself (and I choose a car), because peoples paychecks don't get the same mileage they got 10 years ago. Stop thinking that brining in foreigners to this country is going to help things out. Start thinking about Canadians and what really affects them, and address those issues. You'd be surprised how many people who want families, just can't afford them because of the costs they incur coming out of college or university.
  35. Bob L Head from Toronto, Canada writes: Great post Ryan.

    We need more Canadians to have more children.
  36. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from Edmonton, Canada writes: I always thought it was wise to have a small population imprint on the land so we all could have a high standard of living - actually, I was always under the impression that was the standard of a first world nation - one that did not have more people than the land could sustain.

    I personally support the elimination of dual-citizenship, as our neighbours down south of us who have overpopulated themselves maybe need to learn the lesson of what makes a first world nation a first world nation. Equally, Canada should consider a border wall not unlike what our neighbours to the south are building on their southern neighbours (Mexico).

    How is it possibly bad to have a decreased population?
  37. Vladimir K from Thornhill, Canada writes: I agree with the two of the above posts. Immigration is not going to solve this problem. Immigrants have even less children, since their incomes are lower. They are also usually don’t have their families here to help them to look after their kids. And last, but not least, they are bringing they own old parents into the country, and they are eligible for OHIP and for some kind of pension or subsidized apartments when their kids pretend they can't support them. This is by the way common practice among many immigrant ghettoes. Shocked, Outraged?? I am an immigrant myself raising two small kids and paying 1500 per month for day care alone and another 400 per month to their RESPs. It is not easy when you add to that sports and art school, mortgage, car payments, RRSP, etc. We live from paycheck to paycheck. Every time there is a United Way campaign at work, I wonder if it is wiser to stay on welfare in this country. Think about it, you get subsidized day care, housing, training, even kids swimming lessons. And this is stress free; you stay home and watch your kids growing. You can also work for cash and no one will catch you! When I pass buy social town-housing units, they are not much smaller that my house and some cars there are the models I can't afford! So, keep bringing in more of those useless people into to the country, and enjoy paying your taxes and United Way grabs. They will go up as you have more retirees and useless immigrants to feed. .
  38. j.r ewing from vancouver, Canada writes: Sue Shaw, you are very wrong. We are so underpopulated its amazing. I live in Vancouver and it is like a ghost town compared to other big cities. Obviously a large part of Canada is uninhabitable, but we still have plenty of room.
  39. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: We have enough people in Canada. Vancouver is one of the most over-populated.
  40. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: A retraction of the population combined with no immigration for a hundred years....... Ireland. And look where they are today, a great place to live, with great people.
  41. Lawrence Davis from United States writes: Great blog with lots of useful information and excellent commentary! Thanks for sharing.

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