Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Vancouver's food fight

FIONA MORROW

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:47 PM EDT 22/08/07

With dozens of restaurants opening recently, competition for staff has turned cutthroat - and accusations of poaching are flying in the once tight-knit community. The gloves are off ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. John John from Vancouver, Canada writes: This is an industry and treats its staff like they did in medieval times. These people work nights, weekends, holidays and for low wages. How many people in the hospital industry do you know who can afford to own their own homes? Most cooks I know can barely afford to drive a car. Kitchen work is degrading and invest their time and energy to making a company successful, later to ask 'when does my turn come around?' It doesn't...that's why the turnover rate is so high and the burnout factor through the roof. I got out after 20 years and it was the best move I ever made. My only regret is that I didn't realize it 19 years sooner. Guys like Rob Feenie surely have talent. The majority of people in the inudstry are jack-of-all-trades who will always struggle paycheque-to-paycheque. What they end up giving to the job pays nothing in return. Why work for an owner who considers it a high-end bonus simply to pay medical or dental benefits. Heck some places consider it a bonus to offer two days off in a row. This industry offers nothing but dead-end opportunites.
  2. David Graham from Canada writes: Last time I checked, people were free to change jobs. I find it appalling when Rob Feenie feels injured when 'his' dishwasher considers a move. Pay a competitive wage and benefits package, value your employees and employees likely won't leave. People see arbitrage opportuunities that exist. Get your head out of the sand. Increased costs will be passed to consumers - who may (or may not) absorb price increases for quality services.
  3. M D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Good for Vancouver's staff. Ottawa's scene crashed a few years ago, too many owners driving Porches. The higher class restaurants paid less because we were supposed to be grateful for the opportunity to work for them. Dolts. Better to flip burgers. I wouldn't have been able to affort to eat in any of the restaurants I cooked in, happy to have left that business far behind.
  4. Fluorescent, Yellow, Plastic Bowl from the dollar store from Japan writes: hmmm.' He was my dishwasher for 12 years.' It sounds like that owner really took the guy under his wing, taught him some skills and promoted him through the ranks. Where`s the guy`s loyalty? A little dazzling with some White Spot glamour and he jumps ship. Some people!
  5. Mr Fijne from Calgary, Canada writes: Perhaps Rob Feenie might finally get back to the kitchen instead of showing his mug on TV, buses, books etc...!
  6. Bob Seven from Edmonton, Canada writes: Feenie's dishwasher is the same as a CEO's executive assitant. I had a older guy who washed dishes at every restaurant I was in for almost 8 years. But he just didn't wash dishes. He did easy prep work but more importantly, he was always there and didn't want to do anything more than wash dishes. I paid him well, treated him with respect and he stayed. Much like Feenie's dishwasher. There is some loyaty out there you know.

    Vancouver is going through what Edmonton when through years ago. There was a point when there were 9 out of 11 cooks as Red Seal Journymen in a restaurant I was in, now you are lucky to have 1 in a restaurant, let alone more than that. Staffing is hard when you do the job for the passion, not the money. Believe it or not, sometimes it isn't about money.
  7. nick Wilson from Courtenay, Canada writes: My friend worked in the kitchen at Kettle of Fish in Vancouver in the 1980's. They paid $3 over minimum wage then, full medical and dental, 6 spotlessly clean uniforms a week, meals, a couple of hundred dollars extra in tips each month and most of the staff stayed for years. The owner or one of his family members was always there as Maitre D', the owner and the chef did the inventory monthly, the food was great, the waitstaff made great tips, the place was always packed and it was a pleasure to eat and work there.
    The owner and the chef thanked employees at the end of the shift. Once a year the owner would close the restaurant and take all the staff and their 'dates' out to dinner and a dance. Appreciation, cash and respect... that's what everyone needs in life.
  8. Rocket Doctor from Vanc, Canada writes: Have you been to Kettle of Fish recently? Yikes!
  9. John Smith from Vancouver, Canada writes: This might explain why the quality at Feenie's has gone down significantly over the last year or so in terms of food and service. It's not in the league it was anymore; in fact it's now on our 'don't go' list.
  10. Larry C from Canada writes: Ha ha!Vancouver must be a great place to live...erp...eat. I've heard of poached eggs, but poached chefs? No thanks.I can smell the effluence all the way up here. For me, just a few shrimps garnished with a tomato and a side order of midgets. What a paradise Vancouver is. One big haute cuisine theme park. Wall to wall restos. No place to live but you can eat yourself into a coma overnight.The kitchen help can't afford a condo, but if they promise not to squeak and raid the refrigerator, they can sleep in the cheese closet.The owners must pay millions just to keep the health inspectors out of the kitchen. And now they're importing chefs from Asia. Big mistake.How do you think the Asian countries control the numbers of dogs and cats roaming the streets? Anyways, the Winter Games will be an anti-climax after the Eating Games. The Americans, of course, will take all the gold medals in gorging, devouring, and slobbering. But the Germans will give them a run for their money, especially in the beer drinking events. The Germans should win gold, silver and bronze in synchronized belching.The new restos better have supersize urinals -or Vancouver might be deluged by a tsunami. Now you know why they call Vancouver 'The Big Wet Spot'.
  11. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: Larry, take a valium. The restaurant scene is HUGE everywhere. Staff are at liberty to come and go as they please. It is an employees market now and is only going to get worse. It has nothing to do with the impending Olympics and everything to do with a shortage of labour. Statistics from a recent university course I am taking in Hospitality management states by 2114 there will be 400,000 service sector jobs in B.C. and only 300,000 to fill them. This is just the tip of the 'berg. Check out other negative labour cities ie Las Vegas and Phoenix and you will see higher wages and signing bonuses.

    As for too many restaurants, man, go to New York. I was in Vancouver in July and couldn't find a place to have a drink on the Robson/Denman/Davie stroll. Maybe two pubs in the entire area and a restaurant we wanted to go to that wouldn't let us sit because it was 10 minutes to opening and against policy (at 4:50 in the p.m.) ...in NYC, there would be a pub every few steps and they are all full all the time as are the restaurants. The food is good there and generally so is the service. Maybe these Canadian restaurateurs need to let go of their own egos and realise what the business is morphing into. (by the way I'm a 30 year service professional and have, in the past, owned my own fine dining restaurant.)
  12. Larry C from Canada writes: Jennifer Rollison from Canada: A pub is Ok with me. Five or six beers is healthy - five or six five course meals isn't. A shortage of restaurants is healthy but a shortage of housing is death. Life is all about the right ethical priorities and Vancouver has the wrong ones. But, hey...enjoy the Olympics of Flatulence and the great events, like drunk skating and downhill peeing.
  13. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: Larry, I don't live in Vancouver and I can't say I'm an advocate for the Olympics. 5 or 6 courses may be just as okay as 5 or 6 beers dependent on the size of the course (or the size of the beer for that matter). Aside from that, do you live in Vancouver? I did for the last six years. I have also, in that time been to Montreal, Toronto, Seattle, L.A. and NYC. The only, and I mean only place I saw anyone taking care of those who are homeless was in NYC, imagine that...so, Larry, wherever you live, I hope you and your city council are taking care of street people, homeless men, women and especially children. I would wager they and you are doing about as much as is being done in Vancouver.
  14. Larry C from Canada writes: Jennifer: Long live New Yawk which was once New Amsterdam. New Amsterdam was a damn nice place - until they changed the name to New York and turned thousands homeless. 'Why they changed it/I can't say/People just liked it better that way.' Crazy cannibals.
  15. People Person from Vancouver, Canada writes: The article doesn't even see the tip of the iceburg. The Vancouver area continues to experience anomylous residential growth. Anyone who visited Vancouver in the early 90's can remember the big sand lot that was Expo 86' - but if you look at it today, you will see another city worth of condos! The same can be said about the Seymour/Richards area, Yaletown, Coal Harbour, and even Gastown! Sure there are lots of restaurants opening to feed all these people, but they didn't come to Vancouver to wash dishes - they have real jobs. The supply of labour to the Food and Beverage industry (Hospitality in General) has been in Crisis for some time - not only in Canada. The recent moves by the Government to Tax gratuities as source deductions has (if your restaurant/hotel was audited and dinged three years retroactive as was ours) or will impact employees, attenuating their take-home pay even more. Is the market willing to shell out more for braised short ribs so that restauranteurs can pay higher wages? Isn't $40 enough??? Do the restauranteurs have the guts??? We need immigration desparately - if the unemployed from other parts of Canada don't want these jobs, we need to attract foreign workers. Hell, let's relieve the US of their border problems and get a fleet of busess headed there to round up the illegals and bring em' up here to work!!! Sure, it is about money, where to live and all that, but we need warm bodies to want the work. Power to the upwardly mobile waiters and chefs (and the odd dishwasher), just hope you don't burn too many bridges because you never know when you might want to come back - your old job might be paying more than you make now!!!!
  16. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: Larry, I'd wager you've never been to NYC...
  17. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: People, since when is working in a restaurant not a 'real job'? I have done it for 30 years and I am very good at my job. I work with lots of people who aren't very good at the same job. I know more about food, wine and service techniques than most people. I can multi-task, I can manage others while doing so and I can make my guests feel as if they are the only ones in the room. Why the need to denigrate my profession?
  18. People Person from Vancouver, Canada writes: I don't know how they do it but HY's in Vancouver has all of its original staff - virtually all of them. They have aged gracefully with their surroundings. The place is charming. Rob Feenie; Please don't poach any of them - especially that guy that works the grill, or Frank the waiter. Someone commented about how hard it was recently to find a place to drink/eat. I agree, I try to eat out everyday and it keeps getting harder. If you don't get away from the computer by 6 ish' you might end up in a line-up. It doesn't matter whether it is January on a Monday night - busy it is. I welcome all these new seats. The fact is some places are so busy they don't execute the food or service job at the level they might prefer, or that would justify higher pricing. I am concerned that a greater abundance of seats will translate into competition on pricing and result in market failure for some. A greater supply of seats means the consumer has greater bargaining power; and, the increased capacity requires more workers from a limited pool meaning the employees have greater bargaining power. This combination is a classic recipe for failure. So, it is unlikely in my analysis, that the increased supply will survive as any significant NET Growth in capacity over the mid-term. At the end of it, I will still have to wait in lines and there will still be hardships for surviving restaurants just trying to keep enough staff on the payroll. Ain't it the life?
  19. People Person from Vancouver, Canada writes: Dear Jennifer Rollison,

    My apologies, I was being sarcastic. I too have been in the industry for 30 years and simply meant 'real jobs' from the rose-coloured perspective of those emmigrating to BC and buying condos in Yaletown or some such. The growth in Vancouver has not been fueled by growth in service staff and that is what is really at the core of the problem. I am not sure where the labour pool is going to come from if not immigration.

    I remember when a restaurant opening in Vancouver meant putting one little ad in the Sun/Province paper and dealing with a line-up at your door the next day that went around the block like a 'Condo Selection event day' produces now!!!
  20. hartley rosenberg from Canada writes: In 1981 when I was in cooking school, one of my instructors told his students: 'If you work in a restaurant for ten years, you get a year of experience ten times'. People have always moved around in the hospitality industry - employers have concerns if people haven't seen a variety of situations.
  21. People Person from Vancouver, Canada writes: Hartley, would that have been instructor Willie Brand? Sage words that apply to many situations not only kitchens.
  22. Former Cook from Vancouver, Canada writes: Why do cooks leave and jump ship? Well, at some point cooks come to the realization that they need more than 24k per year to work 6 days a week 16 hours a day. I personally put in my time in some of Canada's top restaurants choosing to believe that the best places were worth the investment in time and effort for very little financial reward. It was fun while it lasted, but in Vancouver specifically how do you live off 29k per year. That is the going rate for cooks at Lumiere who work like maniacs in a beautiful kitchen under gruelling pressure. It's just not worth it. And albeit I can go into most restaurants and they will offer me a job, but the pay never increases. Always the same old story. So instead I went to University, got a job for a consulting company and enjoy quality of life, benefits, good pay and a healthier lifestyle that is sustainable in the long run.

    I have worked for 2 of the major players written about in the article, and the article is accurate, pay people more, and they will stay. Vikram has very low turnover at both of his restaurants. He is the kind of employer who will co sign a car lease if you needed. He makes employees feel valued in the organization, not discarded at a whim.
  23. isabel ydancer from kaien island, Canada writes: Wow! I've worked in the restaurant industry for over 20 years in various establishments. Currently I work for two restaurants. I could work everyday and around the clock if I chose to. I love this type of work, which is fast paced, I can multi-like crazy so it's basically easy, I'm meeting people from all over the world, and I like the people I work with. I like my bosses but sometimes they just don't listen to their employees when it will benefit the business. They make changes and then ask the staff later what they think! I was shot down at a meeting when I was making a suggestion on how 'WE' can organize ourselves a little better. The boss asked, "What does everyone hear here? Thatshe thinks that she is perfect?" She repeated it again - a novice employee and one of the lazy employees answered 'yes!' Funny - that was the bosses thinking and not mine. I went to help out an old boss across the street and he said, "Ill start you at $8. an hour - no overtime and no stats." The other day my friend that supervises the front gave a novice waitress a raise that has been there only a few months. I thought - Right on! - because she was deserving of it and I think it's almost unheard of in that establishment. I know the supervisor's reasoning for it. I wonder if or when I'll get one. I know that there are some real slack asses in the field. They haven't a clue what real service is. They expect to be tipped well for doing nothing and it's outrageous the number of times a customer actually tips so well for substandard service. Fortunately my customers recognize that I don't fall in this category and they tip generously for my services. I consider it an honour to serve. It's fun actually even with all the chaos and hectiness. I know the industry is crying for workers. I'm glad I don't own a restaurant. I don't have their headaches at this moment. I go in, do what is expected of me and more and can leave it all behind at the end of my shift! I can say, I really love my job!!!
  24. Barbara-Anne Patterson from Toronto, Ontario, Canada writes: when i read the very first comment i was compelled to log on and say what i have wanted to say for years. john john, you summed it up! we need to take charge of the atrocities that (hopefully only up till now) are, and have been rife in the hospitality industry! forget about being 'poached' by another chef/owner who only thinks about their vacations, food network cooking shows, reviews, and ultimate 'stardom'....
    it's time the people who really do the hard work get recognised and paid for their part in all of this! if there isn't a union (or some kind of mediator) that is developed soon, there won't be a good restaurant left in this country in 10 years!
  25. Barbara-Anne Patterson from Toronto, Ontario, Canada writes: and anyway.....vancouver is really only a 'hick town with a view'

Comments are closed

Thanks for your interest in commenting on this article, however we are no longer accepting submissions. If you would like, you may send a letter to the editor.

Report an abusive comment to our editorial staff

close

Alert us about this comment

Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.

Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.

Back to top