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Sûreté du Québec to review practices

CAMPBELL CLARK and INGRID PERITZ AND IAN BAILEY

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:53 PM EST 25/08/07

Police say undercover officers were not at protest to incite violence; union leader to file charges ...Read the full article

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  1. Barak Obama from Victoria, Canada writes: Do not think this is the first time this sort of stunt has gone on.

    They just got busted that's all.
  2. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: So when is Stockwell Day going to review HIS foolish practices of automatically blaming others and defending police without actually thinking about it first?
  3. J Billins from TO, Canada writes: Jason Roy: Your argument doesn’t hold. Those old lines wont work in this situation because the path of plausible deniability goes out the windows when people see the film. You cant bury the evidence on this one because the film is the evidence and it seems the jury has made up its mind. Better get used to seeing the 3 Amigos open up for the 3 Thugs and the Storm Troopers side show on computer screens across the country. Oh, and get your rock jokes ready.
  4. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Maybe Harper is right to insist that ministers like Stockwell Day should keep their goofy opinions to themselves.
  5. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: An now for your enjoyment people the search for the fall guy begins!
  6. vic w from Canada writes: Day's made his goofy opinions known now... and has to be held accountable for them. Accountable, you understand? Accountable? Otherwise it's time to bring accountable in at election time, although that said, the Conservatives have done their damage, enough even in a minority. There's enough 'not in my canada' for it to be time to show them the door.
  7. rahim ladha from Montreal, Canada writes: Something to be said for our democracy where Police infiltrate and try to discredit democratic right to protest.

    I hope they lay charges.
  8. John P from Vancouver, Canada writes: An internal review isn't good enough. Whether it was a simple mistake, calculated move, the police crossed the line into political interference, and now we need to figure out what happened, and decide what - if anything - should be done about it.
  9. Dr. Sartor from Victoria, Canada writes: 'Public Safety Minister' has an Orwellian ring to it. Certainly Stockwell Day should resign: he is either a fool or a knave. The biggest threat to Canadian democracy comes not from foreign terrorists, and certainly not from demonstrators exercising their right of protest, but from those politicians and police officials who would sacrifice our liberties in the name of security.
  10. Michael H from Edmonton, Canada writes: I don't know what videos Day was watching but if it was the same one that everybody else saw he's either lying or a complete idiot (or both). A simple denial about the RCMP would have been a little more reassuring. It seems more likely, given his response about not getting into operational details, that this was initiated by the RCMP and/or the PMO. In making the statement, he's then not caught in a lie when it all comes out (other than the obvious one about getting identified because they refused to throw rocks). With that lie, however, he is counting on most people not actually watching the video and accepting his disinformation as genuine. I am certain that we will see the CPC supporters repeating and asserting this claim as true many times to follow on this thread.
  11. Ken Lawson from Richmond BC, Canada writes: Day and the Quebec Police are giving Canadians bull, this is the 6th time in 10 years that there as been a problem with Federal events like this in the Province of Quebec, yet the Quebec Police and RCPM sit on their butts and they still have not arrested Jean Chretien for the worst crime in Canadian history, The Sponsorship Program, presented to Canadians by Quebec and French Canadians and French Canadian Politicians, they cannot be trusted.
  12. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: Keystone cops! But what kind of charges could the union leader lay? Is there a law against walking around carrying a rock? or ????
  13. Michael H from Edmonton, Canada writes: Bob McDonald, of course he is right to do this. The question is: is it right for the public to have no idea about what outrageous anti-democratic religious fundamentalist thoughts and opinions the rest of the Looney Toon gang has?
  14. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: Fully moderated conversations leave the right of freedom of speech in the hands of one single person (perhaps two). I would rather suffer thru the antics of fake posters than have my comments censored.
  15. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Please publish a complete list of all the participants with brief bios.

    The security services have all of this info anyway.

    Police snipers also have a way of ensuring that peaceful protests remain peaceful. Best Regards.
  16. Robert Kennedy from Sydney, Canada writes: There will have to be an independent enquiry.
    As I said in an earlier thread, while supporting the protests as democratic, I thought the protesters were overstating their case. And I first thought the accusations regarding agent provocateurs were nonsense. Not now.
    I think this shows that if we are going to have democracy we have to get involved and be ready to challenge all authorities. And why shouldn't authority be challenged? Why should we get a free ride, expecting our right to democracy be respected when all we do is vote every once in a while? Certainly most of us have learned to have no respect for the word of the police or the politicians.
    Still, to see them exposed as not only self-serving but as sinister is a bit frightening.
  17. sean smith from Canada writes: The politicians and police should not get off the hook on this one. First there is irrefutable proof they were the ONLY ones trying to incite a riot. At first they denied involvement. When the proof became overwhelming, they spin a story that has absolutely no basis on fact. When this won't work they move on to the insults which has already begun by calling older people wearing suits demanding the cops put down the rocks 'extremists'. Finally when cornered they just say it's not that big a deal and launch an 'internal investigation' which they can control and downplay any findings. This is straight from the Whitehouse play book. And we've seen what happened to the civil liberties under the Bush regime.

    Police have a duty to serve and protect - not incite violence and lie to cover their tracks. Our police forces have become a joke and a paramilitary front for the right wing. We the people have a duty to hold them accountable and ensure they stop these police state tactics. Too many questions and issues need answers as a result of this incident.
  18. Frodo Baggins from Canada writes: 'Review their practices' eh? So this is a practice- used at APEC too perhaps. How about in bar parking lots and on Indian reserves, or any time free speech is exercised . Fire the jerks who set these things up, the politicians who act like Schultz and say, 'I see nothing!' Time for Bush's buddy Steve to show whether he's for or against free speech (as a practice).
  19. F H from Canada writes: So, Mr. Day, you'd be alright with a large masked man carrying a huge rock shoving you around when you tell him to put it down? You would consider that 'keeping the peace', would you? You'd also automatically blame yourself or even Canada itself for its laws that respect Freedom of Speech and Assembly?

    Something tells me Stockwell's opinion of the affair would have been different had he been on the receiving end.
  20. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: YouTube videos stage managed by professional activists might not present the complete picture.

    There seems to be a few diplomatic openings in Sudan, and sending Coles instead of a few thousand troops sounds like a fine idea. Best Regards.
  21. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    And for Best Oscar in Costume Design, 'Sûreté du Québec!'

    Receiving the Oscar for the first time in his career, Inspector Marcel Savard, walked tentatively onstage.

    Nausea overcame him.
  22. G. Veneta from Calgary, Canada writes: Spin, spin, spin, obfuscate, obfuscate obfuscate.......

    Stockwell Day is a shame and should resign. I guess if you're dim you just assume everyone else is n'est pas? How else would you fabricate such stories counter to the evidence millions witnessed on the video.

    Call the election then call the enquiry. Duceppe, please bring down this punishment of Canada.
  23. G. Veneta from Calgary, Canada writes: I wonder why the police who are also unionized would allow themselves to be puppets for a political force that despises the concept of unions?? You'd think the police would be on the side of the little people as they are one and the same. Why would the police go along with protecting the oligarchs?
  24. Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: Shorter Stockwell Day, with apologies to Groucho Marx: Who are you going to believe, me, or your lying eyes?
  25. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: There should be criminal charges laid. I guess we can do away with any false pretense that the government works for our interests. More like control of the people rather than adminsitration for the people. This was an direct attack on democracy and an indirect attack on our right to have our voice heard and heeded by the ones that are supposed to be representing us. The ones we place our trust in. To lead us. Jail time for the politician(s) responsible is the only option.
  26. Bergeil DeBungie from Victoria, Canada writes: once again... terrorism from those who would tell you to be afraid
  27. Bergeil DeBungie from Victoria, Canada writes: Public safety minister day wore some sweet capri's while cycling with president bush according to the summit coverage 3/4 days ago on CTV. At the moment what was important was what each athlete wore... a finer pair of pants/shorts, or helmet? Harper of course was omitted. Good to see the public safety minister held accountable for his taste in shape or balh blah blah .... I am currently out of shape myself.
  28. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Who is the censor on this board? Best Regards.
  29. Sandy G. from Canada writes: The SQ are pathetic liars... no one believes any statement they make now. Stockwell Day has lost credibility, he is not in a position to make any statement on this event that the Canadian public can rely on. And the RCMP were in charge of security... they are culpable too. A full inquiry is the only way to get to the bottom of this, and if the federal government refuses one has to wonder why... what are they hiding?
  30. Bergeil DeBungie from Victoria, Canada writes: Hmm, a big sham! Let's hear an oppositional approach to this..... none? The goats are`had.
  31. Peter Walker from Calgary, Canada writes: Maybe the undercover people stopped the Union Leader from inciting people, maybe that's WHY he is filing charges - they stopped his freedom of expression!!

    Just maybe!!
  32. Philip Van Bergen from Hashima, Japan writes: Kinda funny comedy, actually. I wonder if Hollywood will make a movie
    about it?
  33. Robert Boyd from Windsor, Canada writes: The inflated sense of self esteem induced by the Glock banging aginst the hip plus that Arkansas Hillbilly hat that the OPP affect only tells me that their main function is to protect the politician from the populous.
  34. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: J Billins from TO, Canada writes: 'Jason Roy: Your argument doesn’t hold. Those old lines wont work in this situation because the path of plausible deniability goes out the windows when people see the film. You cant bury the evidence on this one because the film is the evidence and it seems the jury has made up its mind. Better get used to seeing the 3 Amigos open up for the 3 Thugs and the Storm Troopers side show on computer screens across the country. Oh, and get your rock jokes ready.
    Posted 25/08/07 at 1:05 AM EDT | Link to Comment'

    HUH!!!!??????!!!!

    What arguement are you talking about J Billins?

    Having just logged on here at 7:23 AM LOCAL TIME (6:23AM on these boards) and seeing someone make a reference to a post supposedly made by me at a time when I was asleep???
  35. Nick Al??????? from Somewhere, Canada writes: Ok here we go again more crap from a bunch of whining protesters as they didn't get what they wanted. Most protests are meaningless as this one was so suck it up and for the cops, it doesn't mateer as I said the protest is meaningless anyway.
    Suck it up and get a life.
  36. Anthony B from Sydney, NS, Canada writes: '..... undercover work is a legitimate, and standard, form of police work,' he said. And then he denied that their officers were disguised as protesters, but admitted it after the footage circulated widely on YouTube.

    So, inciting protesters to riot is such a 'legitimate, and standard, form of police work' that he had to deny it? Too funny! Sounds about as 'legitimate' as the Nazis starting the Reichstag fire so they could blame their opponents.
  37. gerhard beck from Canada writes: Why cover yuor face and carry stones if you just want to observe?
  38. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...this is just a taste of what's in store for Canada if Stevie and his gang of right-wingnuts are ever given a majority...as for Aquaboy Doris and his idiotic comments, it's relly scary to think that this moron occupies such an important portfolio.....hurry up and call the vote Stevie....
  39. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: A bunch of aging hippies protesting the Viet Nam War against the POTUS is little of my concern.

    They deserted the US, and will pay the price for the rest of their lives.

    Tough luck. Best Regards.
  40. Jack Bauer from toronto, Canada writes: man what a bunch of liberal fairies we have posting this morning..i mean adscam was the worst thing ever and no one resigned over that!
  41. John Miller from Grand Bend, ON, Canada writes: I have an idea. Let's hang somebody then hold a public inquiry! That way the uninformed poltroons who think it's all Harper and Stockwell Day's fault can be happy, and the irresponsible cretins who want to throw public money at everything will also be happy. A win-win, n'est pas?
    As for the rest of us, let's not forget about the sociopaths and misfits who show up at these political gatherings for no other reason than to cause trouble and smash things up. That's how they get respect from their friends who are also mistfits and sociopaths. These people are the reason why police have to infiltrate these yob circuses to protect people and property, since the yobs have no respect for either.
    And about the freedom-of-speech rights of that small but wide-eyed segment of the protest circus we always hear about - the ones who only want to save the whales, end capitalism or depopulate the planet. Let's take up a national collection and buy them a life.
  42. edward prior from Montreal, Canada writes: Does Insp Savard really think that his lame excuses are believable? Is this the best he could come up with. Jerry Seinfeld couldn't write better comedy. Insp Savard and the Surete are a disgrace and this level of bureaucratic lying does nothing to improve their image. Savard now needs to explain why any of us should have any trust in that organisation. Sadly, he doesn't seem to understand that.
  43. John Miller from Grand Bend, ON, Canada writes: One more thing. As long as we're talking about inquiries, as a taxpayer I wouldn't mind footing the bill for is a study of the rent-a-radical phenom that seems to have grown out of the WTO riots in Seattle and gets repeated everytime political leaders meet. Let's hire a couple of associate professors of something or other to tell us why yobs follow these political meetings the way hippies used to follow the Grateful Dead. Youthful enthusiasm? Radical chic? Good way to meet girls? An inquiring nation needs to know.
  44. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: As a followup to my first post (if it gets posted) refering to J Billins' post mentioning my 'arguement' ; the only 'arguement' I was making all day was the one of waiting for actual PROOF of who may have been responsible for what - you know, 'innocent until proven guilty', 'right to a fair trial' - all that stuff that the opposition defends so dearly - instead of pointing fingers and automatically assuming stuff.

    By the way, I voted 'YES' as far as a public inquirery goes on the poll. Pretty amazing for a CPC supporter eh?
  45. Tony Burson from Toronto, Canada writes: The police will win as they always do. The police in most jurisdictions in Canada and internationally are a law unto themselves. Why waste time and money with an 'Official enquiry'? I they union takes them to court then maybe there is a slim chance of the truth emerging, but don't hold your breath.
  46. Leigh Davies from Canada writes: Here in Alberta, the Energy and Utilities Board is using similar tactics - infiltrating groups in Alberta and Montana who are opposed to the building of a high voltage power transmission line. Interestingly, the cries of protest and threats of legal action are loudest from the Montana side of the border! We have gotten to this point in our democracy because of the failure of the traditional press/media to do much other than publish press releases. The new technology, blogs and YouTube aren't perfect either, but there is now more of a chance that public officials will not get away with half-truths or outright lies. Kudos to the Globe and Mail for publishing the YouTube link, the story, and the Radwanski blog.
  47. Tony Burson from Toronto, Canada writes: Look to the United Kingdom where the police shoot an innocent man in the subway. There is an investigation and knuckles are rapped. Six months later the officer in charge of the operation is promoted. The UK is also one of the countries rapidly losing its democracy in the name of police protection.
  48. The Centrist from Canada writes: If Day is defending this his Conservative government and Harper probably had a hand in this. This is an absolute disgrace in a democracy. Dirty tricks by the government. Do these people have no shame.
  49. dallas mcquarrie from Regina, Canada writes: One hopes the three criminals in the video will be locked up, along with their superiors who also engaged in this criminal conspiracy to incite violence. The police constantly lie about the conduct of demonstrators, and it's a tactic they've been using for years. Anyone familiar with the history and activities of the Surete du Quebec knows they are thugs in uniform. The official police response to police being caught in a crime is, predictably, more lies from the crooks at the top in a pathetic attempt to cover up for the Gestapo. Even more disturbing than the crimes committed by these three officers on video is the appalling ignorance shown by Stockwell Day is declaring his 'mind' (using the term loosely) is already made up and he has no interest in the facts of the matter. In Stockwell Day's world, Niagra Falls flows uphill, people attempting to prevent violence are dangerous agitators, and rogue cops who encourage people to commit crimes are the good guys. When the Minister in Charge of Public Safety supports criminals caught in the act on video and attacks those who attempted to uphold the law, one wonders just what constitutes 'the public good' in Stockwell Day's world. I didn't think it was possible for anyone to be so stupid and ignorant as Stockwell Day, but live and learn, eh?
  50. anu bose from ottawa, Canada writes: About time they reviewed their nefarious practices-not just the Surete but the RCMP, OPP and ALL municipa police forces.
  51. Rachelle W from Kirkland, WA, United States writes: Shock and awe. Disgusting.

    One small detail:

    Reg Anderson: 'An now for your enjoyment people the search for the fall guy begins!'

    Surely you mean the 'foul' guy...
  52. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: OK, this forum is strictly for the politically correct.

    I understand, really I do.

    I also understand how to contact those that are respnsible, and take appropriate measures.

    Best Regards.
  53. karra x deux from Bastille, Canada writes: Amazing isn't it.

    Yet another sad example of the police investigating themsleves - guess we know without a doubt what the outcome will be. . . .
  54. David E from Canada writes: Stockwell Day and the police have no credibility. I have seen the footage and as everyone has pointed out, the police were there to incite violence rather than quell it.

    This diminishes further what little respect I have left for the Conservatives and the police.
  55. André Villeneuve from Canada writes: I have never seen undercover agents/police officers wearing masks so it would make them easy to be recognized by the rest of the crowd! The bottom line here is the fact that the responsibility of assuring security for this international event falls under the jurisdiction of the federal government and Mr. Day in particular.
    But again, he chooses to blame others and shy away from his responsibilities. Does any believe that the undercover tactics were a QPP initiative without the knowledge of the RCMP and the other frderal security agencies?
    Oh, let's blame the liberals...
  56. gerhard beck from Canada writes: Successful undercover work relies on looking like the people you are observing. If you are dressed like hoodlums amongst people wearing suits and dresses you will be judged as agents provocateurs, which in fact you are, especially if you are carrying rocks and hide your faces. behind bandanas when nobody else wears those. As for Stockwell Day, he should go back to waterskiing.
  57. John Stanton from Toronto, Canada writes: yeah first change, wear different shoes. That was dumb. I want police in amongst these type of people.
  58. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Canada writes: The article said it, what people involved in demonstrations have always known but that John Q. Public (myself) didn't know: this is standard police procedure in these situations. Well it's very ethically and morally BAD standard procedure to risk provoking a problem where one didn't exist before. The line is crossed when they cover their faces and start swearing and pushing people around, whether they are holding rocks or not. Obviously the goal is to discredit legitimate peaceful protestors.

    Tin-foil hats ROCK!
  59. t scot from Canada writes:
    Dr. Sartor from Victoria, Canada writes: 'Public Safety Minister' has an Orwellian ring to it. Certainly Stockwell Day should resign: he is either a fool or a knave. The biggest threat to Canadian democracy comes not from foreign terrorists, and certainly not from demonstrators exercising their right of protest, but from those politicians and police officials who would sacrifice our liberties in the name of security......My sentiment exactly,I couldn't have said it better!!
  60. Shawn W from Toronto, Canada writes: In a way, it's terrific that this has happened. Nothing could illustrate better the path we're setting ourselves on with PM Harper and his goons. Listening to Mr. Day explain the government's position last night on the news took my breath away. Such arrogance, such an absolute abandonment of fundamental Canadian values.
  61. Duncan K from expat in sweden, Canada writes: Absolutely brutal. If any good has come from it though, hopefully this incident will serve to mobilize people. Time to stand up and demand accountability. This is not only a problem of our current government either.. we have to be vigilant.

    I want an inquiry. I second the motion for Stockwell's resignation. He is certainly a fool,and maybe a knave as well.
  62. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Interesting - the Chief of Police for the City of Ottawa (Vernon White) was interviewed today stating that even he considers the entire incident suspicious. It appears that the Sûreté du Québec are having trouble convincing even their fellow police forces that this was a harmless mistake.

    Funny thing though - the Sûreté seemed to have not trouble convincing Mr. Day???
  63. john chuckman from Canada writes: The video says it all.

    The S.Q.'s behavior was disgraceful.

    There should be a public inquiry, but even if there were it is unlikely we'd ever get the truth from thugs who behave this way.
  64. jc pomerleau from Montreal, Canada writes: (rahim ladha from Montreal, Canada writes) If you care about a political state police you should have to start by the GRC and the CSIS. They have records on several thousand citizens because of their political opinions. The STASI in Canada, you bet. Dont forget Canad is the place where the the biggest violation of civic rights happen in a modern democracy(!970): 500 persons jail for their opinions, thousand have their house break in whit ou warren; among them artists writers poetes (sound familiar). They had all of their right suspend jail whithout charge, this was in Canada. Where the STASI is still a life and well.
  65. vic w from Canada writes: The Centrist: Day is defending this. On a Friday evening no less when he hopes that noone will notice...
  66. M T from Canada writes: Who gives a crap about 'adscam' at this point. Talk about whipping a dead horse. Dark times indeed.
  67. Yves Fortin from Canada writes: This type of practice belongs to totalitarian regimes. It is sickening to se that it is used in a supposedly democratic country like Canada. The people who are behind that should have the decency of resigning. The RCMP scandals have profoundly tarnished the reputation of the force and led to a loss of confidence in the public. How many more incidents of this type do we need before the public starts seeing the police forces as being a danger to -- rather than a protector of -- law and order.
  68. Bruce Banner from Toronto, Canada writes: Shawn W from Toronto - while I agree with the spirit of your post, you must remember that this type of activity has been done before a la Chretien at APEC in 1997. As I remember it, Mr. Jaswinder Singh (sp?)was actually abducted by the RCMP - black van and all - days prior to the protest. After the APEC confrontation, Mr. Chretien later glibly stated something like 'I like pepper, I use it on my steak.' He Later shut down the inquiry the moment it looked like it would assign political blame. This is not unlike the actions of his mentor Trudeau who glibly replied 'just watch me' when pressed by a reporter during the FLQ crisis. Thus he became the first PM ever to send Canadian troops to lock down their own citizens. My point? While Harper et al deserve all the flack they get over this (Day should resign), Chretien was the closest thing to a facist Canada has ever had and his daddy Pierre was the first to suspend human rights via the War Measures Act. BOTH LIBERALS. Not to worry however, there is plenty of time for Harper to outdo them both.
  69. Sargon Chan from Edmonton, Canada writes: Democracy? Totalitarianism? No difference. When in election, we all blindly made a few check marks and let some fools run our lives, as we all see in Alberta and Canada.
  70. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: I am surprised at the lack of turnout from the right wingers here defending the indefensible. Undercover infiltration for the purpose of protection is completely different than being the only protestors with an appearance of violent intent. Was the intent to provide media impression to discredit protests in general and to garner public support of future police action?
    Makes you wonder about previous protests in Canada and elsewhere???
  71. Fran Irwin from Medicine Hat, Canada writes: The story spun by Day - that this undercover fellow was given a rock and told to use it - and that when he didn't that was when the protesters figured out that these 3 thugs must be police....WOW what a load! I agree with other posters - Day is counting on people not actually seeing the tape(s) and buying his farfetched version of events! It's almost funny, but for the sinister nature of the situation. A Quebec ex-security policeman with many years of crowd control in the province was interviewed on a national newscast last evening - he pointed out that the fake 'arrest' of the 3 undercover cops speaks volumes! It was done, he believed, NOT because the nearby crowd was violent and would turn on the riot police (i.e. to diffuse the situation) - but in an obvious attempt to stick to the plan, and make a show for those filming/observing that these 3 thugs were NOT cops, but 'legitimate' protestors. Their gentle treatment (by ordinary arrest standards) and the fact that one was observed 'whispering in the ear' of a riot policeman seems to confirm this. To the retired Quebec security fellow - this fake arrest pretty well seals the conclusion that the thugs were provocateurs, and the police at the front were aware of it and tried to get them away before they were 'unmasked.' I sure would like to hear more about these three fellows - and it will be entertaining to see if Day and others come up with more lies to explain the entire episode. We will likely never know whose bright idea this was, too bad.
  72. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: jc pomerleau, you example is a bit extreme in comparison to this relatively peaceful awareness campain don't you think? You are referring to a separatist movement that had demonstrated violence by kidnapping and killing... unless of course you think that government insiders did these things to discredit a peaceful movement? Now that would make a good movie!
  73. Nick Al??????? from Somewhere, Canada writes: Ok so it looks like most of you all should have been at the protest. Then you all would have had a real reason for whining on this issue. You have to be one of tose silly protesters to really have a say as unless you are there your opinion is meaningless like most protests.
    So maybe I should have said earlier
    You all should suck it up and get a life hahahahahaha
    So it looks like the Gov't wins again.
  74. True North from Canada writes: Stockwell Day is holding his line because he can see the view count of the police provocateurs on YouTube and is banking not many Canadians will catch him bald-faced lying.

    Let's review Harper's 'New Government' and how he is 'Standing Up for Canada'...

    - kill the Court Challenges program so average Canadians cannot challenge the government without an expensive lawyer

    - implement a No Fly List with no involvement whatsoever from Parliament and our elected MPs

    - try to incite a riot in order to try and discredit peaceful public protesters. When this backfires badly, still try to blame and discredit the peaceful protesters (this was the assignment after all).

    Welcome to Harper's New Canada!
  75. Sargon Chan from Edmonton, Canada writes: And we are just as foolish to let the lected officials and their servants do it to us. In a majority rule situation, the minority loses. The fact of the matter is, the majority do not care.
  76. Corrupt BYNature from Calgary, Canada writes: It's a shame for Canadian having a senior minister as Day. Not sure if he's trying to treat all Canadian as fool or himself so stupid.
  77. garlick toast from mill village, Canada writes: i guess it's no surprise that the cons' main tactic is disruption,be it peaceful demonstrations or parliamentary committees.
  78. Jeff Pritchard from Canada writes: It's gratifying to see that 'thank you sir, may I have another'-style docility does not widely characterize the Canadian voting populace. Our leaders must now respond with a censure that is appropriate in magnitude to the distrust and outrage that this cynical ploy has sown.
  79. Andrew Pearson from Montreal, Canada writes: As I've said before, all you little people should remember your place in the world and keep quiet! Otherwise ....
  80. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: I follow these threads becaue I am conisdering returning to Canada, after 14 years of absence.

    My conclusion is that Canada is less placed than Peru or Mongolia, and I would have to be a fool to return.

    Please enjoy your $10 packs of cigarettes and $30 bottles of wine, when they are available elsewhere for one tenth of the cost.

    There are many countries where you can comfortably retire on $2K per month, and Canada is not on the list.

    Not being ready to retire, I actually have my sights et on NYC or London as an investment banker, and we are not talking minimum wage.

    Please wish me well, as masssive movements of human and physical capital are not to be taken lightly. Best Regards.
  81. Steve Tatone from Canada writes: There NEEDs to be an inquiry of some sort, Undercover agents, politically motivated agents without public mandate or accountability is by its very definition...Secret Police. Just like the STASI, or the SS, or any other such profane police farce. If the civilian government let the police do whatever they want... We have the police who plant agents doing things at protests that they would otherwise arrest people for. The police attempt to lie to the public about it, and only backpeddle when cought on picture. The politician says 'It's not for the politicians to meddle.' Read-

    C A R T E B L A N C H E

    If the civilian government ISN'T going to control the police, it's time for a new civilian government.
  82. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: This reminds me of the RCMP bombing of an Alberta Energy Corp (AEC) gas well shack in Alberta in 2000 and blaming it on Wiebo Ludwig, a local farmer protesting against proliferating gas wells near his farm. He was later arrested and charged.

    The RCMP blew up the shack a week before AEC held two intense town hall meetings in which an AEC-hired expert told frightened local farmers that they were being attacked by 'eco-terrorists.'

    'Somebody' then blew up Ludwig's van in a parking lot while he was standing near it. No one was ever caught.

    Federal RCMP critic at the time, Peter MacKay, said of the well bombing: 'If, in fact, the RCMP engaged in this type of activity, regardless of their motives, and regardless of the public interest here, it would be potentially fatal to the Crown's case.'

    If police agitation would have been 'fatal' to the Crown's case in 2000, I suspect it would be a big boost to union leader David Coles's case against the SQ today.

    If Stockwell Day had any self-respect as a minister at all, he would be the one calling for an enquiry.
  83. The Critic Critic from Sarnia, writes: No Hank us so-called right wingers are sitting back laughing at the stupidity and hypocrisy of you so called left wingers.
  84. Marcus Leja from Calgary, Canada writes: I strongly encourage the attending protesters meet with the Montebello area property owners to launch a class-action lawsuit against the SQ and the RCMP for such reckless, irresponsible endangerment of public safety and personal property.
  85. hofner e2 from Canada writes: Nick Al and Jim Sheppard, the brilliance of your rhetoric leaves me agog.
  86. Thomas Bendoraitis from Elizabethville, writes: It's surreptitious black propaganda and the orders come only from the top for an objective know only to 'the cult'. Were just disposable sheep for their use not unlike the US bombing their own ships to create hatred against a group that loves their own people more than taking graft for oil. Oh Yeah! By the way, buildings don't implode either, that's called demolition. Bah..Bah! Let's all go and die in Afghanistan for Chevron, Halliburton and the Carlyle group. Those instigators at that protest under any normal circumstances would be charged with sedition.
  87. gordon davies from Victoria B.C., Canada writes: General consensus feel that anything connected buy that loon DAY is already tainted, plus that amaturish infiltration buy prov. police brings the whole meeting up for ridicule. Brown shirts & jack boots would be Days uniform of choice.
  88. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: 'Please enjoy your $10 packs of cigarettes and $30 bottles of wine, when they are available elsewhere for one tenth of the cost.'

    You are correct, sir. Canada is not for you... if cigarettes and wine are that importance to you. Just do not return when you need treatment for cirrosis or lung cancer please.
  89. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Steve: I fully support an inquiry, a complete list of partipants, and an all-expenses paid vacation in Syria, Peru, Sudan, Mongolia, or wherever else they prefer.

    Peru is a reasonable option, since we do not torture people here, although the prisons do tend to get a bit chily at night. Ask Lori Berenson. Best Regards.
  90. D F from Regina, Canada writes: Welcome to the Conservative brand of NeoFascism. Harper and his lot need to be out NOW! Caught redhanded in a fascist act and still they spin. Bring on an election.
  91. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: hofner e2: Please lean how to spell Shepherd.

    Even Peruvian peasants tend to have a bible and dictionary, and do not tend to make the same spelling mistake. Best Regards.
  92. True North from Canada writes: If Stockwell Day is only counting page views on the one YouTube link banking on not many people seeing the actual footage - which clearly shows the opposite of what Day is claiming - he better start adding up the views of all the other copies that now starting to pop up too.
  93. John Miller from Grand Bend, ON, Canada writes: Only in the bizarro world of Globe and Mail-manufactured 'controversies' can a discussion this stupid be happening. Let me invent a similar 'controversy': police foil a bank robbery by dressing up as bank robbers, and some crusading editor with space to fill wants a public inquiry about the deception. No need for an inquiry into bank robbery though, huh?
    Let's get the facts straight. The police were doing their jobs by protecting the public and property from the yobs who turn out to riot at all these political events. Don't pretend these things never happen. The three SQ guys did nothing wrong by infiltrating the circus. Any sensible person would expect the cops to employ all prudent security and intelligence-gathering measures when dealing with a potentially violent mob. We pay them to do that.
    The calls I see here for a public inquiry are kneejerk and stupid, an abuse of taxpayers who've already paid the bill for extra security to control the knuckledraggers.
    People complaining loudest sound just like the sort who'd cover their face and grab a rock to throw at police at the next political pow-wow. Pathetic losers.
  94. Don Koster from Canada writes: Stockwell(a.k.a. Doris) once showed up in a rubber suit- now he needs a rubber room.
  95. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: The Critic Critic from Sarnia, writes: 'laughing at the stupidity and hypocrisy of you so called left wingers'.

    Would you care to be more specific when you say 'stupidity and hypocracy'? Hard to defend such generalities. Let's take one issue at a time like... were the police correct in taking the actions they did and what was the true motivation. Try answering those questions for us.
  96. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Even aging hippies still protesting Viet Nam and Mowawk Warriors still recognize police snipers.
  97. Mister Fartleberry from Canada writes: Practices? They certainly got plenty of practice lying to the public. There needs to be a few career terminations in the SQ. Get rid of the liars.
  98. Geoff bickerton from Ottawa, Canada writes: I witnessed the incident at Montebello. The three undercover cops did not just happen to 'end up in a crowd of peaceful demonstrators' as is being claimed by the SQ spokesperson. The three had been herded there by five protesters who were yelling at them for being provocateurs. Obviously the three undercover cops had done something to cause the protesters to realize that they were provocateurs and not legitimate demonstrators. Perhaps it was the undercover cops who had been throwing rocks at the police line up at the main gate. I do not know what happened to cause the protesters to 'out' the undercover cops, but something did.
  99. Paulo Garrido from Barrie, Canada writes: John Miller from Grand Bend, ON, Canada writes: Let me invent a similar 'controversy': police foil a bank robbery by dressing up as bank robbers, and some crusading editor with space to fill wants a public inquiry about the deception. No need for an inquiry into bank robbery though, huh?

    Comparing the democratic right of protest to the act of robbing a bank..?
    I suspect if this was a pro-conservative demonstration you'd be singing a different tune. Journalistic objectivity is obviously a liberal conspiracy.

    On a quiet day, you can hear a conservative... blaming the media.
  100. Nick Al??????? from Somewhere, Canada writes: Always seems to be the same bunch of silly whiners complaining about police actions
    They still don't get it the protesters started all this crap and now you think they are beyond the law
    I still say get a life to you all
  101. Fritz Rutger from Acton, Canada writes: Funny thing is..none of these officers involved in such shamefull acts really feel bad about it. They just smile when they get their overtime cheque...courtesy of the taxpayers of Quebec. They will do anything for money for that new boat payment, even if they know it breaks the law. Sad that I must tell my children that the police are not always the good guys.
  102. Cup of Tea from National, Canada writes:

    A realist knows police and intelligence services since the Romans have been using these techniques (dirty as they are). The claim is that the practice is justifiable.

    I wonder what would happen if a protester dressed up as a police officer and infiltrated the other side? Would he/she be charged?

    Normal citizens (i.e., neither protesters or police) are worried when they see these types of abuses.

    If we can't trust law enforcement officials, who can we trust?

  103. The Critic Critic from Sarnia, writes: Hank, this is not the first time police have infiltrated protests, although it's the dumbest and most obvious . Would you have an inquiry every time the police were undercover at a protest?
    The inquiry should be about police stupidity not infiltration.

    Hank a good point was brought on a previous thread,the OPP shot a protester at Ipperwash Mike Harris was blamed not the Liberal PM . Why were they not calling for an election then to get rid of the Federal Libs?

    You figure out what's stupid and what's hypocritical.
  104. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: Using 'provocateurs' must be made illegal urgently. Those responsible must be prosecuted with the utmost energy, condemned to stiff sentences. They must never be in a position to recidivate. This is a democracy, not a fascist state. File charges and fight to the finish, before this degenerates. Mobilize the population. Mobilize!
  105. globefan EH from Canada writes: I am astounded that the poll results show about 62% for an independent enquiry, the others against.

    Who would have thought it would be this easy to give up our freedoms that were fought for to fall into the hands of a government and its neoconservative values who would so readily subvert them.
  106. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: The Critic Critic from Sarnia, writes: Would you have an inquiry every time the police were undercover at a protest? -- Infiltrating organizations is one thing. Using 'provocateurs' is another. Let's not play dumb. Let's have enough wits to make that distinction.
  107. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: Actually, Nick Al???, it was not the protesters who 'started all this crap,' it was the framers of our constitution who enshrined the right to peaceful protest in our laws. They did not, however, enshrine the right of police forces to deliberately turn peaceful protests into riots (at least not without an extremely compelling reason based on security--good luck with that, in this case).

    I bet the SQ are in full damage-control mode, and that the RCMP, also in damage control, are no longer returning their calls ('Desole, there is no one currently in the office who speaks French. Call back next year. This is a recording.')

    Politically, this is a bombshell. It will be interesting to see its effect on the federal by-elections on Sept. 17. And no doubt Premier Charest is livid at the effect it will likely have on provincial politics. My guess is PQ leader Pauline Marois will be a shoo-in on Sept. 24, merci au Surete du Quebec.
  108. Tony Aristocles from Longview, Canada writes: There are a couple of laughable things about this incident. First, the SQ has bumblers at a high level. How high? Well that could get very funny. There is a mentality among the the police but also government officials that to disagree is to be a criminal. The Public Safety Minister and the SQ Inspector seem to have the attitude that the citizens there were “extremists”. Hey Stock! Citizens are public too. Get use to it. Do we want incompetent police? Martin Courcy, an expert in conflict management who has advised several police forces in Quebec, including the SQ, says the mere fact an officer was holding a rock was an act of provocation. 'They could serve as models to others, and in that sense there's provocation,' he said. Police infiltration is meant to defuse conflicts. 'In this case, they didn't defuse conflict, they provoked conflict.' He deemed the effort amateurish and said the officers should have unmasked themselves when confronted by real protesters. 'These are not infiltration professionals,' Mr. Courcy said. The other funny thing is that 40% of the respondents to the Globe survey say that a public enquiry is not needed. For pumping up one side of a survey, how many different email addresses do the Tory two-too-true believers have? It must be in the hundreds. That’s funny.
  109. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Critic: 'OPP shot a protester at Ipperwash Mike Harris was blamed not the Liberal PM'

    Correct me if I am wrong, but that incident was a provincial matter which the feds had nothing to do with it. This was really a fed matter with support from QPP service. Big difference and hence different target. Do not forget, it was Day who stood up to defend the action.
  110. Just In from Canada writes: Rock joke: 'Bring a rock, stand up for Canada' said Canadian rock star Stockwell Day. Minister Day rocks. Not a joke: a public inquiry at the federal level is needed. This is more serious than the Arar affair or the R.C.M.P. scandal. This goes to the root of our democracy. The officers were clearly uncomfortable in following their orders. There ought to be lots of police officers who feel insulted by these orders, but they can't speak out.
  111. Nick Wright from Halifax, Canada writes: The Critic Critic: I don't think the RCMP were involved at Ipperwash, so it is hard to see how the federal government could be blamed for misbehaviour by the OPP or the Ontario provincial government under Mike Harris.
  112. Alex Churchman from Toronto, Canada writes: Stockwell Day comes across with an IQ lower then rocks the cops had in hand. Are these same people burning barns during the FLQ crisis looking for a valid excuse to ramp up arrests? There will be no inquiry, as the results will fall on the little people.and the RCMP given their current state have no stomach to step back into the spot light.
    JUst don't walk around in black with mask over your face carrying a rock.
  113. Not the Alliance from In my opinion the Harper Gov't is incompetent and their supporters like to whine and blame the media, Canada writes: Two days later and the best the Harper 'conservative' braintrust can come up with is comparing it to Ipperwash and/or blaming the media.

    Critic Critic - Harris ordered the OPP in and clearly gave them orders. What did the Feds have to do with it? Re: Montebello, no matter how much you hold your ears and stamp your feet, you can't get around the fact that the RCMP and DAY HAD to be involved. Are you actually claiming that a Summit meeting involving three world leader (assuming Harper can be considered a 'world' leader) would be left to the Provincial police? Ridiculous.

    Either way, there is some explaining to do. Day is incompetent any way you look at it. ... and we all know that Day doesn't tie his shoes without PMO directions.
  114. F H from Canada writes: 'John Miller from Grand Bend, ON, Canada writes: Only in the bizarro world of Globe and Mail-manufactured 'controversies' can a discussion this stupid be happening. Let me invent a similar 'controversy': police foil a bank robbery by dressing up as bank robbers,'

    This would only be an appropriate comparison if:

    a: Peaceful protest were illegal and
    b: the faux-robbers were the only ones with weapons and were endangering the innocents around them by trying to get the robbers to attack the customers.
  115. Sargon Chan from Edmonton, Canada writes: Democracy and Fascist can come from the same election, the same country. Democracy is not a silver bullet to prevent any abuses. We should have learned.
  116. F H from Canada writes: 'The Critic writes: Hank a good point was brought on a previous thread,the OPP shot a protester at Ipperwash Mike Harris was blamed not the Liberal PM . Why were they not calling for an election then to get rid of the Federal Libs?'

    As was pointed out at the time of that thread, the difference is the it was Mike Harris, the PROVINCIAL Premier and the OPP, the PROVINCIAL police who were the only ones involved with Ipperwash.

    This protest however, was an international event run by the RCMP with the QP working as a subsidiary to them, thereby making this event a FEDERAL one, thus Harper being the one ultimately responsible.

    I don't care which party is responsible for these actions as such things smear each party involved unless reparations and apologies are made and lessons learned.
  117. Zach Fitzgerald from Canada writes: The fact that police use agents inside of protest areas doesnt surprise me. Its understandable that they might want to keep a close eye on certain groups while they protested the Liberal/Conservative plan to form the North American Union. But when those agents are seen with rocks in their hands, these agents are no longer police but provocateurs. Why the QPP would openly claim these agents as their own is beyond me. This is a covert operation being carried out on Canadian soil for all to see via Youtube. And all of this just to protest some jellybean packaging labels??? Ya nothing to see here right? And I dont think u can directly blame Steve or Day for this incident. In order to ensure plausible deniability, its likely none of the top officials knew anything about this. But Steve certainly knows what this summit is all about, and that is the formation of the North American Union. Hes actually a much better liar than Paul ever was and doesnt stammer or go 'red faced' like Martin did when asked questions about this same agreement back in 2005. Hopefully this incident will wake people up to the North American Union. Maybe people will even do their own research instead of reading the corporate medias spin. Sadly, its more likely that Libs and Cons will just continue hitting each other over the head with frying pans like some Ichty and Scratchy cartoon.