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Would-be iPhone unlockers hesitating in face of legal hurdles

PETER SVENSSON

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 3:11 PM EST 31/08/07

Unlocking the phone for one's own use appears to be legal, but if done for financial gain, the legality is less certain ...Read the full article

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  1. Anti Elvis from Calgary, Alberta, Canada writes: What do you want to bet that Steve Jobs sees this pent up demand? Millions of people want this thing & they don't want AT&T. I'd buy one in a second but it will be tied to Rogers & I'm not interested in sending my money into Ted Rogers account.
  2. G T from Toronto, Canada writes: We're not going to see the iPhone here for a while. Comwave owns the iPhone brand up here and won't let it go cheap. We all know that Rogers won't pay for it and Apple would rather litigate. Not a really big fan of first gen devices anyway.
  3. Gan Nepesure from Taipei, Taiwan writes: Great...

    another instance of me not owning what I buy...

    I've read in G&M that if you have $2K net worth then you have more than half of the population of the planet.

    This verbal setting of terms of predators like Apple and typical movie studios (you're entitled to the data, and the physical object that contains the data and a backup copy of the data, yet you must be tech savvy to figure out how not to be victimized by the preventative technology) would be unacceptable in older technologies such as automobiles.

    Even though my family fought for this country I find Canadians are to docile due to their wealth.
  4. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: Everything the iPhone offers is available right now, in Canada, not locked on one network. Products from Nokia, HTC and other makers do what the iPhone does and more. There is no catch.

    But these products are not sold by Rogers or Fido (Bell and Telus are irrelevant because they're not GSM carriers. One should avoid them for that reason anyway). They're sold by independent shops and web retailers like Bongo.

    My Nokia E61 does Blackberry email, WiFi, Web browsing (including secure browsing on banking sites), movies, music and all the other iPhone stuff. More expensive competitors offer even more zowee stuff. These phones work on any GSM network worldwide (yes, every city in every country, without exceptions of any kind) and they accept SIM cards (account activation card from a cellphone carrier) from any GSM cellphone company worldwide.

    The market is awash with SmartPhones which are unlocked and unrestricted, do more and cost less than the iPhone.

    Will someone please explain why we're all still talking about this product?
  5. Bernard Samson from Dog River, Canada writes: Denbigh Patterson, get your head out of Toronto (why am I not surprised). There are millions of Canadians who are outside GSM=Rogers service areas, for whom Bell or Telus are the only options. Here in Dog River it's well known only Bell phones get service; I found this out just weeks after signing up with Rogers, on a shopping trip to the "big city", for a two year plan. Trouble is, the blobby "service area" maps on all the carriers' web sites are intentionally vague, and their customer service reps are ignorant, non-committal, and/or skilled in disclaimer.
  6. The Moondog from Canada, Canada writes: If apple really was smart they'd hire the kid.
  7. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: Fair enough, Mr. Samson. You are right, my comments completely failed to take into account the interests and needs of the 1% of subscribers who live in an area served by Bell or Telus, but not served by Rogers. My insensitive, Toronto-centric comments are arrogant, conceited and at least ignorant. They should probably be illegal. Maybe I should be illegal.

    But I did spell your name correctly, an accomplishment in which I was aided by reading it on my screen, two inches above where I am typing. I've found that a similar application of mental effort can be useful in researching which of my neighbours has cellphone service and from which company, before signing a binding contract and paying for a new phone. I'd trust my neighbours, even here in this unspeakable place, before I'd trust a coverage map from a cellphone company.

    Sorry if I'm a bit late with that tip.
  8. Chris Fields from Canada writes: Denbigh Patton - "Will someone please explain why we're all still talking about this product?"

    One word - marketing.

    Sure, your phone can do all that. So can my Palm Treo. So can a hundred other phones, but they aren't super sleek and slim with shiny black plastic. They all have a keyboard taking up a third of the phone's front. They don't do that funky thing where it self adjusts to landscape. But most important of all - they don't have the Apple logo.

    You may hate Apple, Steve Jobs and the absolutely stupifying hype surrounding the iphone and all the other "i - products", but you have to admit, Jobs is brilliant. He took Apple, which was essentially on its way down the toilet and has made it into one of the most talked about and successful tech product companies in the world.
  9. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: Moondog, Apple is very smart. The proof is that there are dozens of products which do more than the iPhone and which cost less, but very few know about them. Everybody, even people in countries where you can't buy it, know about the iPhone.

    The huge, pent-up demand for this non-innovative, not-new, not-revolutionary, restricted, limited product was huge the day it was first offered for sale. It does almost as much as my Nokia E61, costs more and has limitations mine doesn't have. It only works for AT&T subscribers (mine works on any GSM network worldwide, of which there are hundreds) and it music system is locked down on iTunes, which forces you to pay and doesn't allow duplicate copies.

    Yet Apple will make more on the iPhone than any competitor will with their superior Smartphones.

    That's smart.
  10. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: Chris, I agree 99%. My only beef with what you wrote is your quip about my hating Apple... nothing could be further from the truth. I went to Buffalo a couple weeks after the iPhone launch and had a good look. Lemme tell ya... the product is slick and sexy and very Apple. I would not choose it because I don't like touch screens, it is too heavy and I couldn't abide the restrictions its music scheme employs. But what I was blown away by is the plan AT&T offers with it. If I lived in the US I'd jump on this offer in an instant: $69/mo gets you 450 minutes of talk AND UNLIMITED DATA.

    I pay Fido $25 just for 3mb of data.

    Don't even get me started...
  11. Chris Fields from Canada writes: Denbigh, my apologies, when I wrote "you" I was not implying that you personally hate Apple. I was instead referring in a general sense to the numerous people I come across in various debates (on discussion boards such as this and face to face with friends and acquaintances) who have only negative things to say about Apple - often fuelled by the now moot and oh so boring "PC vs Mac" debate.

    Personally, in the past I had always been adverse to the Apple products, mainly due to my own ignorance. Yet I now own and iPod and am contemplating an iMac as my next home computer purchase. And honestly, if the iphone were available in Canada, and much cheaper, I would even think about getting one of them.

    BTW, I pay Telus Mobility $60 for 30MB of data - I thought that was an absolute ripoff, but compared to FIDO it doesn't sound too bad.
  12. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: I may have gone off half-cocked, Chris.

    I support computer users for a living and have been heavily exposed to Macs recently, notwithstanding my specialty is PCs. I have been impressed with the design, the logic and the value. Still, the marketplace doesn't offer the variety of "stuff" for Apple products the way it does for PCs. Apple products exist in a more supply-controlled situation and that diminishes value for the user, IMHO. The amount of software and hardware available for PCs is an order of magnitude greater than what's out there for Macs.

    And iPod is the ONLY mp3 player (among the thousands available) that's locked down with all the DRM crap. I get calls from clients all the time whose computers have died, who are ready to replace them, whose hard disks are intact and who want me to migrate their iTunes library to the new PC. They just want to keep using the iPod and maintain access to the same tunes they have on disk, but on the new PC. Damned if I can figure out how to do it. It all seems contrived to prevent 2 copies of a given tune to exist.

    Perhaps what I've described above is a prejudice, but that's what drives market share. Hence the market "preference" for the inferior iPhone.
  13. Chris Fields from Canada writes: Denbigh, I know this is going off topic, but are you saying that when I get a new computer, be it a PC or a Mac, I will not be able to transfer my iTunes music library to it? (I currently have a PC, with a lot of music that I have LEGALLY purchased through itunes).
  14. Max B from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'm interested in the iPhone not just because of the Apple phone, as slick as it may be. What really gets my interest are the unlimited data plans that are paired with it as currently data rates in Canada are obscenely expensive. I think I may be in the minority though, heh.
  15. doctor business from vancouver, Canada writes: It's interesting how they use the terms "exception to DCMA" as describing this. The reality is -actually- the opposite. This current legal debate requires a furthur EXTENSION of copyright law and setting of new precedents that makes running software on a phone that you own illegal. This is part of the further encroachment of copyright law into our freedom - to make absurd extensions of law - that somehow by not buying from Apple as they design their software to only do - that somehow we are stealing from apple. It is absurd as most copyright/privatising of intellectual technology and treating ideas as property is. But describing the freedom as the exception and the DCMA as the norm is a good way to trick people into the backwards enslavement thinking. Nevermind that the DCMA is a very new and sketchy law (somewhat like the patriot act) which despite being contrary to most other law has had a lot of influence. It is a very radical US law that the US uses to impose its influence on other countries. Also, like the patriot act. Fortunately there is enough healthy anarchy on the internet that idiotic initiatives such as the IP enclosure movement will ultimately fail. However, the question is not if they fail, but how complete will it be. ...You can't fool all of the people all of the time... But a LOT of people ARE fooled by this now. And, a legal atmosphere and media atmosphere that is totally unquestioning and biased in favour of the pro-copyright extension radicals will enslave a lot of people who don't have access to education on these issues. It really burns be up to see poor people paying $70 for some retchid (I won't say the name but bet you can guess) anti-virus software because so many software companies like apple and microsoft make their living off of software and technology that totally relies on and promotes/enforces ignorance.... Ubuntu all the way!
  16. Chris Fields from Canada writes: Max B, if you look at any rate plan for data or simple voice with any of the carriers in the US (and Europe for that matter), not just AT&T, they are all SIGNIFICANTLY better than any you will find in Canada. You don't need to go with an iphone for those great rates.

    The cell carrier industry is an oligopoly here. And based on the principle of supply and demand (and thus the lack of good 'ol competition) this means they can fix their rates (which for some reason seems fine with the CRTC) and we continue to be gouged.
  17. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: iPhad... Bugberry.... That's all I have to say on the subject
  18. Jim R from Toronto, Canada writes: iTunes lets you authorize up to 5 computers (Mac or PC or mixed) per iTunes account. If you've authorized 5 and buy a new computer, just de-authorize one (hint, click on the Store menu...). This step doesn't usually require hiring an expert.

    The iPhone allows you (like any iPod) to transfer songs that you rip off your own CDs or non-DRM'd songs (e.g. iTunes plus), etc., etc. It is no more or less restrictive than any other phone is this regard.

    The E61 is a nice phone but is no competition for the iPhone (nor is the Blackberry - which I use). Different markets, different interface. We'll see which is more popular. Nokia has previewed its own iPhone mimic. Samsung, Moto and the others are sure to follow.

    As for software and hardware availability for Macs and PCs, since you can run PC software natively on a Mac (but not vice versa), I'd think the freedom of choice is in favour of the Mac.... not that many people seem to want to run PC software on a Mac. I'll give you that games run better on high end PC hardware (much better video cards/drivers).
  19. Warren Marts from United States writes: For Chris Fields : Songs from the iTunes Music Store can play on computers authorized to an ITMS account (up to 5 at once and you can move authorization between computers), and on any iPods sync'ed to those computer.

    If the song library is available on disk you export the library files, de-authorize the old and authorize the new. If the library is lost from the disk but is still on an iPod you can pull it off. I've used a program called Senuti in the past, but now Apple has 'reverse syncing' built into iTunes. iTunes 7 makes backing up and restoring music as easy as it should have been all along.

    Apple's support site is actually quite useful, unlike what I've seen with the ones for Dell, Lenovo and video card makers recently
  20. Timothy Nessus from Somewhere, Canada writes: GREEDY PHONE COMPANIES: ONE
    CONSUMER: ZERO
  21. dave ross from Canada writes: And what is all the chatter and data transfer for anyway? So people can watch a Star Wars geek play Jedi master on YouTube and then phone 10 friends to say "You should see this geek."

    Ah, the joys of our higher civilization.
  22. True North from Canada writes: Instead, Hotz traded the unlocked phone for "a sweet Nissan 350Z" and three iPhones, according to his blog ** Awesome!
  23. Johnny B Good from GTA, Canada writes: What's with all the hype with the iPhone? There are other toys on the market that can do the same job here in Canada.

    Frankly, I would never buy anything from Apple, over priced, waste of money proprietary toys. I hope common sense prevails and it never makes it to market here.

    Frankly, I like the MAC - PC ads. But the message is clear, even in the ads. MACs are toys to do cool fun things, PCs are serious business tools. About the only good use for a MAC is a door stop unless your into graphic design, which is where the MAC reigns. For anything else, it is useless.
  24. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks for the tip, Jim R. Not sure it helps in the scenario I've described above: the PC has died, the hard disk is intact but removed and it contains the one copy of the entire library. Nobody has "clicked" the "Store" menu on the dead pc because it's... dead.

    So we just copy all the .mp3 files to the new hard disk and all's well, right?

    not.
  25. Jim R from Toronto, Canada writes: Denbigh, you should be able to set up a new computer for the client, have them authorize it for their iTunes account by logging onto the iTunes Music Store and then transfer the music library from the rescued drive. This is only needed for music files that have been bought from the iTunes store .m4p files (protected AAC). Apple does make it easy to archive such files (you can always select the purchased music from the rest of the music on iTunes with a single click on "purchased" on the left-hand menu under "Store"). If the songs are on an iPod, you can copy back to a new, authorized PC (or Mac). Why would anyone not back this stuff up? Theft, fire, failure.... I know, I know.... not going to happen to me.

    Johnny B Good, frankly, get real. Given that Macs have a greater than 50% marketshare in science, they are far more than toys and given sales growth of Macs are outpacing PC sales by 2-3 fold, it seems others find them useful too.....
  26. Denbigh Patton from Toronto, Canada writes: I'd rather walk a mile with a Chevy hubcap than drive a Ford.

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