- Post a comment
- Skip to the latest comment
- Back to the blog
Although Google's "Street View" visual search service isn't in Canada yet, federal Privacy Commissioner Jennifer Stoddart already has her hackles up about the idea. Why? Because the service involves taking millions of photos of street-level scenery to help people get around, and some of that scenery just might include people -- and that, she says, might contravene the requirements of the federal privacy law, PIPEDA (if you really need to know what that stands for, you can look here).
As it happens, Google's relatively new service has a strong Canadian connection already, since Calgary-based Immersive Media is the company that has been sending out squads of cars with 360-degree cameras mounted on them. In fact, Immersive already has a significant library of images from major Canadian centres such as Toronto, Vancouver and Ottawa. You can see a full map of the routes and cities that the company has already scanned on its website.
Do you think Google's Street View is a privacy threat? Answer the poll question at globetechnology.com
Ms. Stoddart says she has already written to both Google and Immersive Media, telling them that she is concerned the new service will breach the protections included in PIPEDA and asking them to respond. Under the law, any invasion of privacy that involves taking photos -- such as in banks or shopping malls, for example -- has to meet a number of criteria. Street View "does not appear to meet the basic requirements of knowledge, consent, and limited collection and use as set out in the legislation," Ms. Stoddart said.
Update:
In a comment below, Colin McKay from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner says that the office is discussing with Immersive Media what steps they might be able to take "to render their images at a lower resolution to avoid the sort of concerns we have raised."
This is an issue that the U.S. has already had to confront, since the service was rolled out earlier this year. After it was launched, users started posting snapshots of people -- their faces fairly recognizable -- being arrested, leaving adult video stores and urinating in the street. One woman posted a picture of her apartment, in which her cat was clearly visible in the window, and said she felt like she was under surveillance. Others wondered what else Google's photos might capture.
Google says it is more than happy to take down photos if someone complains, and has also pointed out that it contacted women's support shelters and other institutions before launching the service and doesn't include photos of those kinds of sites. The company also says that the pictures it is using are not an invasion of privacy, since what they show would be readily visible to anyone walking or driving down the street. A number of commenters on our story have made the same point.
At the same time, however, it does seem as though there is something qualitatively different about what Google is doing. For one thing, the photos can be seen (theoretically) by millions of people, and they are also (theoretically) permanent. And yet, they are taken from a public street -- something anyone with a cellphone or a video camera could do if they wanted to. Does it matter that this is being done by a large, for-profit corporation? It seems to for many.
And still, the question remains: Where do we draw the line? Former Sun Microsystems CEO Scott McNealy famously said in 1999 that "You have zero privacy anyway. Get over it." Not everyone is willing to do so, however.
-
Fred Penner from Canada writes: Check out these "alleged" Google Street View privacy invasions discovered in the US:
http://streetviewgallery.corank.com
There is even one of someone entering an HIV testing van!- Posted 12/09/07 at 2:47 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Jack Robinson from London, Canada writes: The CEO of Sun MicroSystems actually has the corporate cajones to declare: "You have no privacy... get over it!" Seems to me that maybe it's time to pull the plug on much of this hyperbole-hyped, fundamentally malevolent technology and 'dobe-wall some of it's most pernicious purveyors.
- Posted 12/09/07 at 4:16 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Joey Tavares from Toronto, Canada writes: I have nothing to hide. What're they gonna do? Arrest me for smoking?
Ahem.- Posted 12/09/07 at 11:28 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
L. R. from Canada writes: McNealy can say that because he thinks he's exempt. When there's a shot of him coming out of a restaurant with his arm around a young woman at a time he told his wife (over visiting her mother) that he was home sick; then it will change. In other words, these people always think things like this are ok because they think it won't impact them.
How about the woman who has moved, changed her name, has an unpublished phone number because a man has been stalking her, and he spends hours monitoring until he finds her photo on Google streetshots?
The person walking by my house is just that, A person, gets a fleeting image as I walk by my window, not -- how many hits does Google get in a day--a static shot to be studied and there in perpetuity.
There are groups that have been showcasing Google's privacy violations for some time. We should all pay attention.- Posted 13/09/07 at 9:58 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Tony Mareschealle from Toronto, Canada writes: This is as good as allowing the state to set up a camera on every street corner and intersection - welcome 1984. The fact that google is allowed to do this is the slim edge of the wedge - if citizens do not oppose this move as an invasion of privacy, it allows a precdent to be set such that government can justify their own deployment of similar and more virulent surveillance of society.
When society then objects it will be too late - goverment will throw up their hands and say - but we are no different that google. you didn't object to them!!
It should not be permitted in Canda - the yanks can allow what they wish.- Posted 13/09/07 at 11:44 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
ghostofpatbuchanen buchanen from Victoria, Canada writes: But it's just a snapshot. It's not rolling video. It takes an incredible amount of coincidence for that snapshot to capture someone to whom harm will come. A chance? Yes. A likelihood? Very, very, very low. Way lower than the chance that same person will be randomly hit by a bus while walking.
The upside, on the other hand? Being able to find houses and businesses far more easily, therefore increasing productivity and reducing pollution. Being able to see entire streets and neighbourhoods, instead of one house on mls, when shopping online for a home. Being able to track the history of development of a lot, a street, a neighbourhood over time. Having a visual record of a property for insurance purposes. Just off the top of my head.- Posted 13/09/07 at 12:07 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Friends Always from Calgary, Canada writes: Its funny how we've become so nervous about the slightest risk of public exposure or threat of privacy invasion that it trumps the benefits of an open society. When the opportunities of an open society benefits us (i.e. freedom of expression, right to choose, no censorship) benefits us ~ whether it be through government or commercial, private sector ventrues ~ we're okay with this. But when the opportunities has a hint of NIMBY (not in my back yard ~ in this case front yard), we get become protective. Whether I drive the streets or walk in front of your house...the curbside view is a public view. The fact that Streetview offers technology that you can do this from the leisures of your computer doesn't erase the fact that is public. Finally, it is amazing paranoia that people thing that other people or organizations will scan thousands (in Calgary's case - 420,000 single family homes) of one-time in place images to stalk individuals. Get over it you 'head stuck in the snow' Canadians.
- Posted 13/09/07 at 12:27 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Matt Stiles from Vancouver, Canada writes: Friends Always,
With today's facial imaging technology, one does not have to scan thousands of photos. A computer can do it for you. Probably in a matter of minutes. Welcome to the real world.- Posted 13/09/07 at 12:49 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Norm Neil from in the Hot 'n Wild West..., Canada writes: L. R. from Canada writes: "...How about the woman who has moved, changed her name, has an unpublished phone number because a man has been stalking her, and he spends hours monitoring until he finds her photo on Google streetshots?..." Sorry L. R., but your example isn't really valid. If the woman has moved, then the number of images the stalker would have to sift through would be quite large (say 5,000,000) as he would not know if she still was living in the same city. So at a conservative estimate of 15 minutes per scan per photo , he would have to spend 1.25 million hours or 57 years. And even then, he would not be guaranteed that she was outside on the day the photo was taken! I know we could argue forever on the assumptions we each take, but I hope I've made my point. There are far easy *existing* methods available if someone really wanted to stalk some else. This technology is not one of them. And as for the facial imaging technology, it is not quite as simple as Matt Stiles suggests (Mission Impossible movies aside). While it may get there sometime in the near future, it is not here today (Matt's example, I mean). You can open any UK newspaper any day of the week and find examples of how their distributed network of public CCD cameras have helped police (and victims) solve crimes. Do they prevent crimes? Sometimes (parking lot monitoring). But enacting laws fail to prevent crimes as well too, so why do we continue to make laws?
- Posted 13/09/07 at 2:24 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Colin McKay from Ottawa, Canada writes: Hi Mathew.
Colin McKay from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner here.
Thank you for noting an interesting and emerging issue. I just want to add that we are now speaking to Immersive about their technologies, and they are discussing with us what steps they take to render their images at a lower resolution to avoid the sort of concerns we have raised.
Colin- Posted 13/09/07 at 2:58 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Mark Outhwaite in Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: Colin McKay: Immersive could keep the same photo resolution, but instead allow for modification of the image sets by users, encouraging thousands or millions of potential users to use a proprietary photo modification application hosted by Immersive to apply distortions to images of people, but ideally nothing else. Streetview would be of greater utility if signs and other communications like addresses were preserved. Lowering the resolution of the entire image would make the photos useless for a number of purposes. Just a thought.
- Posted 13/09/07 at 5:06 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Philip McRae from Vancouver, Canada writes: What expectation of privacy does someone have walking down the street? If you catch me picking my nose count yourself lucky. Sometimes I scratch myself.
- Posted 13/09/07 at 8:05 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Nigel Wallis from Toronto, Canada writes: The issue around privacy isn't entirely centred on PIPEDA - Quebec's civil law has a distinct take on the matter.
Matthew Ingram - try looking up the case of Aubrey v Les Editions Vice-Versa Inc. - you might find it to be relevant here.
Cheers,
Nigel- Posted 14/09/07 at 9:07 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Gordon Tryon from COQUITLAM, Canada writes: "it is amazing paranoia that people thing that other people or organizations will scan thousands (in Calgary's case - 420,000 single family homes) of one-time in place images to stalk individuals." Pardon my paranoia, Friends Always, but on the other hand, it is amazing naivete that can't "picture" the advantages such infornation would offer home invaders, break and enterers, car thieves, kidnappers, pedophiles, arsonists, graffitiists, political canvassers- woop- politicians casing me? Now I'm getting really paranoid!
- Posted 14/09/07 at 11:43 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: It sounds like many people are starting with an incorrect presumption - that in walking down a public street, we have no expectation of privacy.
In fact, we do in the sense that we have always been able to do so with relative anonymity - no one must carry identity papers, you don't have to identify yourself to a police officer unless being lawfully detained, if someone wants to publish your picture, they need permission to do so, etc.
Yes, you may be observed going about your business, but there is no expectation that this will or should be recorded. Let's not be so hasty to say there is no expectation of privacy whatsoever anyway (therefore we've nothing to lose). I value my relative anonymity and my understanding of the law is that I have a right to it. Things like this street-level thing are a definite incursion of my rights and kudos to our privacy commissioners across this country for recognizing that and fighting for it.- Posted 14/09/07 at 1:38 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
-
The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: How ironic that everyone is up in arms about violated privacy then they go and sit down at their computer and post their entire lives on some social networking web site like FaceBook. Don't fool yourselves, just because you have to invite others onto your friends list does not mean that your information there is safe. If hackers can get into bank and government servers they can get into internet social networking servers.
- Posted 14/09/07 at 4:53 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
Join the Conversation, Leave a Comment
This conversation is semi-moderated What is moderation? | How do I report a comment?
You must be logged-in to submit a comment — login now!
Not registered with globeandmail.com? Register now. It is quick and free.
Alert us about this comment
Please let us know if this reader’s comment breaks the editor's rules and is obscene, abusive, threatening, unlawful, harassing, defamatory, profane or racially offensive by selecting the appropriate option to describe the problem.
Do not use this to complain about comments that don’t break the rules, for example those comments that you disagree with or contain spelling errors or multiple postings.

