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Gun ban needed, not school metal detectors: McGuinty

KAREN HOWLETT AND JEFF GRAY

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 4:17 PM EDT 12/09/07

In wake of a teen's fatal stabbing, Liberal Leader says to steer clear of 'American-style' school metal detectors and have a gun ban instead ...Read the full article

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  1. scamp the from Canada writes: I have a solution to evil. Let's just ban it! It will go away.

    someone smuggle a gun from America/Jane Finch. I need to shoot myself as this is the best McGuinty can offer.
  2. Montana Wildhack from Toronto, Canada writes: Dear Dalton:

    Can you "ban" something that is already virtually illegal? How can a "ban" on guns in schools work? Legislation requiring gun owners to register their weapons ended up almost bringing down a government due to the incredible expense and questionable utility of a list of legally registered weapons.

    At the risk of seeming a tad simple, wouldn't it make more sense to enable law enforcement officials to enforce existing laws?

    It's just an idea, as Yoko would say...
  3. Tony Mareschealle from Toronto, Canada writes: What we are talking about here is not Gun Bans etc. What we are talking about here is the importation of foreign inter ethnic violence as a result of Canada's misguided refugee immigration policy. Anytime there is a war, civil or otherwise, in a third country, Canada feels it has to loosen the immigration strings and let everyone in as a refugee. Well with that policy, welcome there "war" to Canada.

    Time to rethink our policies - we are not the mother of tyhe worlds problems.
  4. G len from Halifax, Canada writes: Well, Vote, I disagree with your 3rd paragraph. Yes, hadguns can kill quickly (just like an illeglly used baseball bat) but not from a distance (ever used one, I know you will say yes). Handguns are under very strick gun control laws. They are already illegal to carry around. Its illegal for any 16 yr old to carry a hadgun anywhere. All legally owned handguns are strickly controlled and registered. Almost all handgun crimes are done with illegally owned weapons. You would be proposing making them "more illegal". That is probably not an effective use of my taxpayer money. The few crimes commited with legal handguns would be unaffected by a new stupid law. Unfortuantely, periodically, peace officers sometimes snap too. If you want to impose a stupid law that would only affect hobbiests (criminals would ignore they stupid handgun law), ban muscle cars. Driving too fast causes more deaths than handguns. What reason would anybody drive a muscle car other than to drive too fast? What reason would anybody have a handgun than too kill people? Quick Dalton McDummy, impose more useless laws.
  5. m v from Canada writes: And just how do you enforce a "ban"? I thought it was illegal to have a concealed weapon in Ontario? How is this working for us? Must only be those legally allowed to carry a concealed weapon that are using them. Let's ban clothing... this way the ban on handguns might make more sense... no clothing, bags or purses... no concealed weapon. Simple and easy to enforce!!!
  6. M j from Canada writes: It is only the awful inertia of the American gun lobby that has delayed a total handgun ban in Canada thus far. The sooner done, however, the better for all Canadians. Combine a handgun ban with brutal minimum sentences for gun possession and smuggling and these weapons will fade quickly. It won't stop career criminals, but the availability of handguns to part-time or temporary criminals will decline sharply due to less supply and higher prices. Gun crime in the North East US dropped markedly when a single store selling a budget 'Saturday night special' (about $100) took it off the shelves. Their next cheapest was a $400 model. Immediately, the turnover time - the time from the legal purchase of a handgun to its seizure by police due to use in a crime - went from an average of about a month (!) to over 3 months. The conclusion is that restricting supply of handguns will sharply curtail use of handguns in crime.
  7. scamp the from Canada writes: First of all, here are the facts.

    1. Banning something does no good if you can't enforce it. Banning guns, drugs, alcohol hasn't helped any country.

    2. Mass immigration is only needed because of our inefficiency. We are told there is a worker shortage and a pension deficit. Well if you want reduced immigrant, lets make the public service more efficient and cut back on gold-plated pensions.

    3. Canada continues to accept immigrants/refugees from troubled areas and then lack the social services to deal with them.

    4. Forcing kids in bad neighborhoods to attend the common public school is a recipe for disaster. They have no positive influences. Give them school choice so the good kids can work in a better environment.

    5. The USA is our neighbor and we have as much chance of stopping the incoming guns as they have as stopping our export of marijuana...mainly 0.

    Let's deal with reality, not fantasy.
  8. M j from Canada writes: There is simply no moral, legal, or scientific basis for supporting handguns in society. Those of you railing against the efficacy of banning guns are either wilfully or ignorantly overlooking the clear statistics demonstrating that a) banning handguns reduces gun related crime DRAMATICALLY, and b) legal handguns increases gun crimes, injuries and deaths DRAMATICALLY. This is not a debatable point.

    When you imply that banning handguns will not affect criminal use of them, you are WRONG.

    When you imply that banning handguns will not affect the number of gun injuries or deaths, you are WRONG.

    When you conclude that it would be fruitless to institute a ban since it will not utterly solve the problem of gun related crime, you are WRONG, and worse, being wilfully solipsistic. In an issue this important, that is simply immoral.
  9. Ken Hass from Canada writes: The Liberal Leader is obviously a Moron. Someone should tell him that handguns are already illegal. What are needed are tough enforced laws. Charge anyone over the age of 14 as an adult.
    First gun offense, 5 years no parole, 10 years for the second offense, 20 years for each offense after that. No parole period. No parole board.
    Second, an end to Multiculturalism, it is destroying this country.
    Multiculturalism = Apartheid = Isolation = Distrust = Fear = Gangs = Illegal Activity = Violence.
    Deport anyone convicted of a crime, once they have served their time. Also deport the family, if they have been in Canada for less than 10 years.
    Do not let any immigrants into the country if they come from violent, corrupt countries.
    No voting privileges until you have been here for 12 years. Conditional citizenship until you have been here 25 years.
    No admittance until you can speak English/French.
    No admittance if you are over 40.
    All immigrants must pass a cultural assimilation test.
    Immigrants should accommodate Canadians not the other way around.
    Make these rules retroactive for 25 years.
  10. Ferris Bueller from Canada writes: Handguns are already "banned". The ultra double ban won't affect the people who already are willing to risk jail by carrying and using illegal guns.
    This is a spectacularly stupid idea that will achieve absolutely nothing.
  11. M j from Canada writes: For the uninformed:

    Handguns are not illegal. A) Pick up an acquisition form at the post office. B) complete a mandatory 10 hour training course C) join a gun club, and finally D) complete the club safety test. The Canadian Firearms Centre will send your Authorization to Transport to your club.

    Purchase your new chromed .38 S&W and enjoy!
  12. Martin MacCool from Ft McMurray, Canada writes: MJ,
    You should check your facts, after the UK banned them violent crime went up dramatically and as bizarre as it seems in US jurisdictions where concealed carry laws have been passed violent crime has actually gone down. Apparently criminals are afraid of attacking people who can defend themselves.

    Forgive me if I'm wrong, but how would a handgun ban have helped the kid who got STABBED in Toronto.

    I have a solution to gang violence in a handfull of High Schools in TO, it's not hard to name the parts of the City that require the metal detectors, ask the parents of the kids who go to those schools if they want them. If the parents of kids in the Jane/finch corridor want them put them in, if the parents in Sudbury don't feel they are necessary don't put them in. All rules and standards don't have to be exactly the same for every public institution.
  13. Martin MacCool from Ft McMurray, Canada writes: You neglect to mention the police and background checks done on applications to acquire restricted weapons. I know several people who have done it and it is quite a bit more involved than that.
  14. Ferris Bueller from Canada writes: You are seriously ill informed MJ if you think you can get a permit to carry a handgun that easily.

    "Combine a handgun ban with brutal minimum sentences for gun possession and smuggling and these weapons will fade quickly. "

    And when it comes to wide open smuggling corridors please turn your attention to border reserves such as Akwesasne. Good luck.

    I'm with you on the sentences for possesion and use. That's the only real tool we have on top of our already existing "ban". They've got to be actually enforced though!
  15. Robert Slaven from Surrey BC, Canada writes: I am so sick of ignorant politicians thinking that "banning" something is the cure. It's already almost impossibly difficult to legally own a handgun in Canada ... all a "ban" will accomplish will be to take them away from legal users while making no difference whatsoever to the crooks.

    Remember "banning" alcohol in the 20's? How about the current "ban" on marijuana? (A total joke if you live in Greater Vancouver like I do.)

    If I were in Ontario, I'd never vote for McGuinty, based simply on the stupidity and ignorance behind his comments.
  16. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Ban Handguns??? anybody remember the Toronto gangs on Utube with their mac-10 and automatic rifles and sawed-off pump action shotguns...ya ban handguns and we can hold our heads up high with smugness as kids get killed in school.

    The fear of being "Americanizing" our schools is greater than watching kids getting killed. Banning handguns = an equal amount of handgun deaths. Criminals do not care. These same people that want to tighten the border will be the same people that do not want our border guards armed.

    WAKE UP!! Toronto schools HAVE "American" style violence! Crack is banned and there are no problems with crack use is their...because its banned....maybe we could lobby Columbia to ban the coca plant while we're lobbying the Americans. hahahah
  17. Robert Slaven from Surrey BC, Canada writes: Oh, and M j? Check your stats. States in the US where gun ownership is "easier" than others tend to have LESS violent crime. Since banning handguns in the UK, violent crime there has gone UP. Please don't spout falsehoods, especially with such pretended authority.

    I swear, the ignorance behind all the anti-gun insanity is pushing me that much closer to getting back into target shooting, a sport which I safely enjoyed throughout my teenage years thanks to a wise and learned scoutmaster.
  18. Larfing Outloud from Vanuatu writes: Thanks for your input Dalty but we will be banning YOU very shortly.
  19. J Cran from Canada writes: I am stumped here. How does banning handguns solve a person being stabbed...Were they stabbed with a handgun?
  20. Dave S from Victoria, Canada writes: Well, I’m always in favour of proactive rather than reactive actions, so someone here should mention, in relation to the rise in violence, be it handgun, knife, club or just kicking someone to death, the really excellent training material and methods used by the US military, to make their troops effective and desensitized killers. The training is of course the computer simulations that have proved so cost effective. Too bad all our young and impressionable teens have access to these too &8211; and find them oddly addictive. First person shooters are very effective in inspiring as well as teaching and desensitizing to really really brutal stuff, but they sure are good money makers, so it&8217;s a good trade off I suppose. If you&8217;re an old codger (over 35) get yourself a tour through some &8211; I think you&8217;ll be surprised.
  21. Bill Grigg from Kelowna, Canada writes: How is banning guns going to stop stabbings?

    Point of fact, since the rules were tightened on guns, deaths by guns went down, but were matched by beatings, strangulation and stabbings so that the overall death rate stayed at or near the "bad old days".

    Typical of a Liberal government to diminish freedoms in the interest of safety. We don't need more laws, we need courts to uphold the ones we already have.

    This isn't the "Americanization" of anything, and we Canadians should stop attempting to put the blame for our societal faults on other countries.
  22. Brent Grandin from Burlington, Canada writes: I do agree that I do not want to see metal detectors in our schools.
    Even through personally I agree that hand guns are not something the public should have. I will defend the public right to have them, this is a free country. I believe that 100% of the people who legally have these guns probably are involved in 0 of these cases. Banning the guns will not help. Black-markets are the source, stolen guns, imported guns.
    I think we need to be addressing the root cause of the problem and not go after things that look good in an election. On this issue a politician HAS to be more concerned about doing the right thing and doing something that can make a real difference instead of his own political future. They have to be a leader and stand up and use statistics and experts, and really determine courses of actions that can help. They have to lead. If a ban will work then the public needs to see this evidence, they need to see that a ban will help. If there is no research to support this then it has to die and move on to things that will help. I wish I knew what those things were, maybe we should talk to the parents of the kids who killed, where were they?
  23. Ferris Bueller from Canada writes: Good point Montana

    Dalton is proof that Kissinger's theory wasn't always true.
    Kissinger once said that power was an aprhodisiac.

    Not when Dalton (or Joe Clark) had it, it wasn't
  24. Rusty Berr from Canada writes: Banning hand guns is the only workable solution ...
    perhaps da fuer Harper can do what most Canadians want and put all the necessary resources at his disposal to get rid of them... and maybe he can speak pretty please to his neo CON friends Bush et al and tell them to stop the proliferation of theses disgusting weapons which have absolutely no purpose but to kill...then again it seems to be an American past time so I doubt he would get anywhere.
  25. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Montana Wildhack from Toronto, Canada well stated

    McSquinty is just grasping on the old anti-american bias that CDNS still insist is the only virtuous form hate (for lack of a better word)
  26. Ferris Bueller from Canada writes: Brent: "maybe we should talk to the parents of the kids who killed, where were they?"

    We know who the moms are, but the dads? That's another story.
  27. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Mj...as others have stated...check your facts...you're simply wrong...and how many Jane/Finch "gang bangers" legally obtain and register their handguns? No I don't have the "stats" but EXACTLY ZERO would be a pretty safe bet. Here's my take on the whole issue...McGuinty...Miller...etc...keep calling for a "ban" on handguns primarily to "pass the buck" on the whole issue. They know it will never happen, so they can count on it being a good way to pawn off responsibility to the feds. Secondly...it costs them nothing...installing metal detectors in schools...oops...looks like that would have to come out of the provincial education budgets...just like camera systems, security guards and other capital expenditures. So much easier to just point the finger elsewhere and keep calling for their ludicrous "ban" on hand guns while they throw up their hands in mock frustration to the press. I'm in agreement with the vast majority of people...if McGuinty, or anybody else really believes "banning" something is the answer then don't do it half way...just ban crime altogether and we'll have the perfect society.
  28. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: .

    A mandatory 10-year sentence without parole for illegal gun possession and double that for committing an offense while armed will deter all but the stupidest criminals.
    .
  29. Rex's Experiment from B-town, Canada writes: No metal detectors, but ban the guns. Handguns are essentially banned already. Special permits are required to obtain one. Banning something is fine except the ban doesn't stop illegal one's from being smuggled in. An armalite rifle can be broken down and fit into a box of Corn Flakes.
    And in wake of the latest school fatality can some (preferably Dalton) tell how banning hand guns would have saved that kid's life? A metal detector may have, but no guarantee, while the gun law wouldn't have.
  30. Dan L from Montreal, Canada writes: "Bill Grigg from Kelowna, Canada writes: Typical of a Liberal government to diminish freedoms in the interest of safety."

    In Canada it is not a "freedom" to own a gun. Bill, feel free to move to the US if you would like that freedom.

    As many have pointed out, handguns are virtually illegal. Thus, the government may as well make them entirely illegal and use the money saved from the bureaucracy that used to be employed to license guns to fight the flow of illegal guns from US.
  31. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: Rusty Berr from Canada

    what about the old da fuer Chretien? What was his solution to handguns when he had CONSECUTIVE MAJORITIES!!!

    I find it funny how you hold greater expectations from Harper's minority than from Chretian's several majorities. Chretien did nothing under a majority so THEREFORE it was the WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF CDNS THAT HANDGUNS NOT BE BANNED...

    WHy is McGuinty even bringing up handguns when he can do nothing about it! Where the hell has BRYANT been...banning evil pit bulls, or dogs that "look" similar to the above. He is playing on the stupididty of Ontarians.

    BTW, McGuinty said no new taxes but would not sign a contract stating that...my question? What about a new "premium" or any other action taken by the ruler to increase govt revenue. MCG needs evry penny so he can have a larger surplus!
  32. Brent Grandin from Burlington, Canada writes: I agree with some others on here. That maybe one of the better routes to fixing this problem is to insure that people caught with illegal weapons and caught committing gun crime that they get sent to jail and have to stay the full sentence. Too many people are getting off on lighter sentences for heavy crimes. Judges have to take more responsibility and begin to think for themselves and for the greater good of the pubic they represent. I do not feel our judges are doing a good job of that. I am not sure the term judge is correct any more, maybe trial facilitator or arbitrator is more appropriate. Judges should be allowed to make a judgment and impose the max if they feel so. An not just bow down to which ever side (defense or prosecutor) makes the best case. They should be allowed to think beyond that. I think that once kids and others know that they will be judged for their crime then they will think twice. It should not be about who has the better lawyer.
    Sorry for heading off on a tangent.
  33. David Wilson from Toronto, Canada writes: Dalton's proposed solution would be laughable if children weren't being killed. To claim that a handgun ban would solve this problem is simply wrong. We live next door to a country in which guns are readily available and there will always be willing smugglers and buyers of illegal guns. A handgun ban does nothing to prevent knife violence, beatings, bullying, etc. Further exacerbating this problem is the celebration of gangster culture in music and film.
    There are no easy solutions, but providing alternative positive role models and making schools and their surroundings places of safety would be a good place to start. If it requires metal detectors, armed guards and extensive video surveillance within and around a school to make it safe, then that is what should be done. I would also propose that violent crimes and weapon possession that occurs in or in the vicinity of a school should be punished severely - especially when a non-student "gangster" attacks a student or teacher.
  34. cyrus ravage from Grimsby, Canada writes: Oh boy, here we go, another Liberal gun control program - yikes! The feds squandered some $2B dollars attempting this under Chretian/Martin & we got nothing for it. Are we in for a provincial repeat? Either way, if McGuinty is re-elected, taxpayers will need to get their checkbooks out (again)
  35. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: Dan L. a few facts of life...and even though they say "never say never"...I will. 1) you will never stop the flow of hand guns from the US...never. 2) you will never stop criminals from obtaining hand guns...never 3) you will never stop criminals from using hand guns to get what they want...never. So it would seem to me that if you carry an illegal hand gun you should be chucked in jail for a considerable period of time. If you use a hand gun in a crime you should be chucked in jail for an even longer time. We will never take the guns out of circulation so we need to take the criminals that use them out of circulation.
  36. Don Adams from Canada writes: Good old idealistic, head in the sand Dalty Boy. Yup. Ban all handguns, that'll work. Right. And just how do you propose to do this Dalty? Another LAW on the books? This is going to stop the importation and distribution? Just what kind of alien world do you come from? All you GOMERS who advocate ban this outlaw that....God, you're all so naive!

    Law enforcement, and PUNISHMENT will go a lot farther, but ONLY if the PUNISHMENT is severe enough. And, spending a month or so in jail is certainly no punishment. Might be to you, but people, think about it...you have to put yourself in the perp's shoes..."what knid of punishment would be severe enough th make me stop disobeying the Law" THAT'S the punishment that should be meted out.
  37. Brent Grandin from Burlington, Canada writes: Sorry one last comment in a slightly different direction. But it is an idea that is crazy but I really like it. (I have two young kids)
    If a child under 18 commits a violent crime then the parent should and must face the judge as well and face the adult sentence for that crime. We as parents are supposed to be legally responsible for our kids until 18 years of age. But that means nothing really. Kids are doing all sorts of things and get away with it under the law and the parents are not held responsible. Let make it mean something. I think then that parents no matter their personal situation (single mom or even 2 income family etc) will look for signs sooner in their kids and hopefully to to get assistance.
  38. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: Gun ban? That's a joke. Handguns are easily available on the street for as little as $200 dollars
  39. Bradly Wiebe from Theglobeandmailsucks, Canada writes:
    Ban handguns. Again. What a joke.

    It'd be like passing a speed limit sign, then 100 meters down the road passing another sign that reads "and we really mean it!"
  40. N C from Toronto, Canada writes: Schools are so dangerous because the Safe Schools Act made bad behaviour worth up to $27000 per documented child. If a school could pin on a child six documented 'behavioural' events (eg. swearing, pushing in the playground) in successive months, it would justify a claim of $12,000 p.a. for the board; add a diagnosis of ADHD or LD and $27,000 would be the prize. The distorting effect of funding pressure made schools claim ISA (Ministry) money for children who had nothing wrong with them; in 1997-2006 there was a huge financial incentive, operating at school and classroom level, to document the slightest learning or behavioural problem in order to claim this money. It had become a billion dollar business for schools and psychologists.
  41. Ken Hass from Canada writes: M j from Canada,
    For all practical purposes Handguns are banned in Canada.
    Just try walking around your local mall with a registered handgun. Good luck.
  42. Michael Manning from Mississauga, Canada writes: Well, I suppose that it's cheaper to make ANOTHER law that "bans" handguns than to actually take some crime prevention steps. I would have a lot more respect for Mr. McGuinty's integrity (or intellect if you accept he actually believes what he's saying) if he promised to spend more money on community policing, after-school programmes for youth, youth employment and any number of other ventures that might very well impact gang violence and other crimes.

    While he's at it, he could always demand the return of the death penalty because we know how well it works in curbing teen violence in Texas.
  43. dave mackay from nova scotia, Canada writes: What a jackass! What's next? Ban global warming? Does this moron have handlers? To begin with , the kid was stabbed, true? A metal detector would register and alert a knife, gun , nails ,screwdrivers , etc. rather than put everyone on their "honour". Truely Dalton must be desparate to be using " I am not an American" slogan at this point in the election.
  44. scamp the from Canada writes: N C from Toronto,

    for sure, the sooner people realize how much of a scam our public school system is, the sooner they will want out. It's a same to enrich bureaucrats and teachers, not to benefit children.

    hopefully the push for independent schools becomes greater.
  45. kevin joncas from Canada writes: What do criminals do to protect themselves from other criminals with illegal guns? They get guns themselves. uhmmm!
  46. SingleDad TO from Hamilton, Canada writes: [quote] M j from Canada writes: There is simply no moral, legal, or scientific basis for supporting handguns in society. Those of you railing against the efficacy of banning guns are either wilfully or ignorantly overlooking the clear statistics demonstrating that a) banning handguns reduces gun related crime DRAMATICALLY, and b) legal handguns increases gun crimes, injuries and deaths DRAMATICALLY. This is not a debatable point. [quote]

    You should read a well written book called More Guns, Less Crime:

    http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636

    It is a very well written book based on statical facts from societies where there is very strict gun control vs those with lax gun control.

    So yes, it is a debatable point and to this day I have yet to hear someone intelligently argue Mr. Lotts findings.

    Now that said. I am anti-gun and see no use for owning a handgun outside anything other then target shooting. But if you target shoot, fine more power to you. Just keep the gun stored accordingly and I have no problems.
  47. Orson Kaart from Dorval, Canada writes: I thought Jean Charest was bad but from all appearances this man McGuinty is a hopeless case! By now, he must be the only person in Canada that hasn't figured out that unenforceable bans are completely useless.
  48. Brent Grandin from Burlington, Canada writes: "M j from Canada writes: There is simply no moral, legal, or scientific basis for supporting handguns in society. Those of you railing against the efficacy of banning guns are either wilfully or ignorantly overlooking the clear statistics demonstrating that a) banning handguns reduces gun related crime DRAMATICALLY, and b) legal handguns increases gun crimes, injuries and deaths DRAMATICALLY. This is not a debatable point."

    I don't disagree that we really don't need hand guns. We really don't need cars either and they kill more people. We all could move closer to where we work and take the bus.
    It is not moral for us to own cars since we can kill at anytime and more often than guns. I say ban Cars!! It will significantly reduce car crime and deaths related to cars and it will clean up the environment.
  49. George Lawrence from Canada writes: Spoken like a true red Liberal,GUN CONTROL?,not another registry god forbid.Canada has the most stringent gun control legislation on the books of any country in the world.These guns are either registered or ILLEGAL(Probably smuggled thru Windsor or Fort Erie,or Sarnia entry,corridors.Why not metal detectors? Additional gun control measures? NO,Tighter Customs surveillance YES(Federal Responsibility)YES,and lets toughen up on sentencing for those convicted of arms (gun)smuggling and any crime involving a firearm.
  50. Donald Duck from Canada writes: I'm starting to think they should just ban handguns, that way they won't have this as an excuse the next time a kid gets shot with an illegal handgun, or stabbed with a knife, and then we can move onto to the real solutions like metal detectors, and urban planning that doesn't involve creating ghettos like Jane/Finch.
  51. Alan S from Calgary ex Toronto, Canada writes: This was predictable from the three stooges, McYuppie as the leader now, ban guns for a stabbing, no need for metal detectors to detect metal like Knives all you need is to ban guns. Let not be like America, let’s be dead Canadians. “Cry the beloved country"
  52. Bruuks Brew from Canada writes: someone got STABBED off of school property, so, let's ban GUNS at schools.
    problem solved.

    our 'leaders' can't even connect the dots.
  53. Alan S from Calgary ex Toronto, Canada writes: Brent Grandin from Burlington, Canada writes: "..........>. Those of you railing against the efficacy of banning guns are either wilfully or ignorantly overlooking the clear statistics demonstrating that a) banning handguns reduces gun related crime DRAMATICALLY, and b) legal handguns increases gun crimes, injuries and deaths DRAMATICALLY. This is not a debatable point."

    aaah, perhaps those statistics need to be checked, as they seem drastically wrong, and lets not just confuse crime and guns, as dead is dead, and even though the USA may have the highest gun crime deaths, it is not at the top of the list for highest crime deaths in the developed world. i.e Gun Free England has a huge increase in gun crime and crime in general, the bad wall to wall gun USA has a continuing drop. Dramatically check these statistics and please use both pro and anti gun resources to get a real picture.
  54. Ramesh Fernando from Canada writes: Let me get this. A student is STABBED and McGuinty talks about banning handguns. Stabbing happens with knives Premier, not with guns. So metal detectors would have benefited the school. I really don't have sympathy for gun rights fruitcakes as this is Canada the land of good order. So I agree we need a handgun ban as well as mandatory sentencing for people caught in gun related crimes. BUT McGuinty must be joking, more VPs are not going to reduce violence, and like it or not having metal detectors will increase the safety of schools. So it's similar to the USA, well Premier Toronto is a large urban city similar to American cities and if they have to copy American methods of safety so what. Metal detectors will work.
  55. Gord Costas from Canada writes: Ok, I may talking out my a$$, but if seat belt use saves lives in the US, then in McGuinties eyes we in Canada should do everything in our power to avoid their use, so as not to be like the Americans. Guess what retard, we are in many ways similar if not exactley like the Americans.
    If metal detectors "will save even one life" ( a quote used whenever possible by the gun ban types) you better do something to have them installed.
    Maybe I'm getting old, but did'nt a shooting, not a stabbing, have to take place before "ban the gun" was cried. It is painfully obvious the man does not have that "little voice" that 99.926 % of people have , that says to ourselves "hey, that made no sense" when we say something stupid.
  56. Norman Lapierre from Montreal, Canada writes: Ban handguns = prevent stabbings!!!
    McGuinty really is an olympic class idiot. Get down off the soap box. Banning handguns is the solution to all the worlds evil.
    Why not ban knives, cigarettes, drugs, prostitution, cars, baseball bats, alcohol.
    Banning is much easier than getting TOUGH ON CRIMINALS.
    I hope Ontarians elect someone with a brain, because McGuinty is really lacking that attribute.
  57. Paul Meyer from Trail BC, Canada writes: I loved the NDP comment: "I DONT WANT TO SEE ANY OPPOSITION TO THIS REMARK." I bet you don't, but here it is: Every (every!) jurisdiction that has brought in handgun bans has seen an increase in gun crime. Right now the probability of a home invasion where I live is essentially zero bedcaue so many adults are hunters that criminals are unwilling to risk entering a home on the 2-50% chance that the homeowner may be armed. That set of elk antlers visible in my neighbour's garage does more to keep our neighbourhood safe than a 24-7 police patrol. Downtown Toronto: I know people who spend more on locks, security and house insurance than I spend to own my truck. The real solution isn't mandator jail time either. That's already on the books. (4 years) The REAL solution is firing judges and Crown prosecutors who allow hoods to plea bargain away the crimianl gun possession charges. You can pass all the laws you want, but if the courts don't enforce the ones you already have, kids will keep dying. Back in the Peterson/Rae days, the Ontario government told prosecutors that dropping or pela-bargaining an assault charge (of a male on a female) would be the same as resigning from their job. I don't see why the same thing can't be done with gun charges
  58. klmklm klmklm from Toroonto, Canada writes: I don't think Mcguinty is an idiot...I think there are people out there that will fall for his Anti-American, superior than thou CDN attitude...

    Nothing succeeds more in CDN politics than "blame America"
  59. Bruuks Brew from Canada writes: I agree with a previous poster who was talking about Punishment. Last year I witnessed some youth downtown smash a window. We called the cops and amazingly a cop on a bike was in the area and caught the guy. Short of calling the kids parents to come down and pick the kid up in their minivan, he could do much. Three strikes.
    The kid went on with his life. Hopefully, if his parents had any sort of respect for themselves, this kid got a good punishment at home. But still, he went to school the next day and probably laughed about the whole incident with his friends.
    Now, if the kid got tossed in jail for a few days, or got a few hundred hours of community service, it wouldn't be a laughing matter. Word would get around about "did you hear about the kid who went to jail for smashing a window", and maybe the potential punishment might be a deterrence.
    That's for vandelism.
    Now, scale it up a few notches for violet crimes, specifically those involving weapons. Toss them in jail.
    I'm relatively liberal in my thinking, but conservative when it comes to this stuff. Sure, a bit of rehab will be good for them, but will it help? Get them away from other problem kids, and we may see a bit of an improvement overall.
  60. Justin Arkenstone from Toronto, Canada writes: More of the same from the same for the same. Sameness is as Canadian as being second-rate, which is what Canada is known for, let's face it.
  61. Paul Meyer from Trail BC, Canada writes: People respond to incentives. If you increase a person's welfare payments when they have a child or dog, then (provided the increase in payment is more than it costs to raise a child/pet you don't care for much) people on welfare tend to have more children/pets.

    If you make the consequences of using a firearm in the commission of an offence more serious, and more certain, then people won't carry a gun when they don't "need" one.

    There are parts of Toronto (e.g. Jane/Finch) and other Canadian cities where the risks of NOT carrying a gun are greater than the risks of carrying one. Dalton needs to either decrease the former or increase the latter. Conveniently, putting bad guys in jail for a long time accomplishes both goals.

    The inconvenient truth is that putting more people in jail decreases the number of Liberal/NDP voters. Politicians respond to incentives too.

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