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When eco-keener meets enviro-slacker

REBECCA DUBE

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 2:07 PM EDT 01/10/07

Love and friendship can go sour if one partner is eco-obsessed and the other thinks wind power means a hairdryer ...Read the full article

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  1. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Environmentalism has turned into a religion for some and a personality disorder for others. Not being allowed to bring a box of Cheerios into the house? Buying carbon offsets to neutralize the greenhouse emissions from your wedding? Enviro-whackos, eco-nutters and Kyoto junkies have alienated the general public, now they've started alienating their own friends and family. At least this behaviour is more or less self-regulating. Social isolation will cure all but the most zealous green fanatics.
  2. Cameron Reid from Canada writes: It could be worse, they could be a greenie AND an vegan.
  3. Stephen Morris from writes: This is why politics are not supposed to be discussed in public. It turns enemies into friends and friends into enemies. "Never trust a man who doesn't drink", said WC Fields, and "thus does conscience make cowards of us all," said the bard.
  4. Todd Sandrock from Canada writes: I don't get it, but perhaps I'm missing the point of Ed Begley's rain barrels and cisterns. You can't create water. He's essentially preventing (or delaying) rainwater on his lot from going into the ground where it belongs. It's great that he's avoiding (I assume) using tap water from somewhere else to do his irrigation, but he's using water that should have gone into the ground under his house locally anyway to do it. He could even be exacerbating things by using his captured rainwater in a way that causes more evaporative loss, further reducing the amount of water that should have gone into the ground under his house.

    If he's using any of his rainwater for washing, he may be avoiding using tap water from somewhere else, but, as soon at it goes down the drain, he's essentially robbed water from his local lot and sent it to a waste treatment plan somewhere distant.
  5. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Used to be a time when reusing things and being mindful of how one uses scarce resources was called frugal, sensible and conservative.

    Now such behaviour is looked at as "enviro-whacko, eco-nutters", etc.

    It's no wonder our planet is in such trouble. People like Alistair must have a major hate on for future generations who will inherit this planet.
  6. Buckaroo Bonzai from America, United States writes: Although I'm against most of the "Green" Hollywood crowd, I have great respect for Mr. Begley - he is one of the few who talk the talk and walk the walk.
  7. thinking-about-it Canada from Victoria, Canada writes: Todd Sandrock... To clarify: Water collected in rain-barrels comes from roof run-off which is diverted from downspouts that lead directly to storm-drains and sewers. This water would never reach the garden, but by capturing in a rain-barrel can be used for watering garden plots and pots. Hope this clarifies!
  8. Voice of Reason from Canada writes:
    Todd Sandrock writes: "I don't get it, but perhaps I'm missing the point of Ed Begley's rain barrels and cisterns."

    No you don't get it.

    First, if you live anywhere near paved roards, almost all of the rainfall goes into sewers (not into the ground). So caputuring the water before it goes down the sewer and using it to water your garden means more of the rain water sticks around for a bit where is fell.

    Second, a large amount of energy is used to bring warter to your home through a tap. Almost all of this energy results in CO2 emissions. So the less water you use from the tap (for things like watering your garden) the less CO2 emissions there will be.

    Third, the idea that collecting water from rainfall and using it to water your garden might actually be exacerbating things is, to use the vocabulay of Alistair McLaughlin, pretty dang wacko and nutty.
  9. whatevah D from Canada writes: thinking-about-it: I appreciate that clarification! My uncle does this and he has a great garden. And no, he is not an environmentalist at all! I'm not sure why he does it actually, but it works.
  10. Voice of Reason from Canada writes:
    Alistair McLaughlin writes: "Social isolation will cure all but the most zealous green fanatics."

    Sorry to disappoint, but it will work the other way around.

    Look what we've managed to do with filthy smokers.

    Next up on the chopping block, the filthy energy hog.
  11. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Art Vandelai, I happen to be a lot more energy efficient that most other people I know. I drive a fue efficient car, use public transit every day, recycle what I can, never drive during rush hour, use florescent bulbs, and keep my heat turned WAY down in the winter. But if some whackjob EVER tries to give me a hard time over eating Cheerios, or throwing a piece of paper in the garbage, or telling me I have to purchase carbon credit gimmicks to "offset" my activities, or that I have to go without A/C in the summer, I will dismiss them for the loon that they are.
  12. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: "I will dismiss them for the loon that they are."

    For the loon that you think they are, perhaps.
  13. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Alistair - great to see you are willing to do at least something to help with our sustainability predicament.

    However it's wholly unnecessary to dismiss as loonies those who have made the choice to use chemical free detergents or voluntarily purchase carbon offsets or go without A/C in order to make an even bigger contribution than you do.

    We all need to make BIG sacrifices in our lifestyle if we are going to sustain our population beyond the current generation. Reality is, not everybody's willing to make them to the same extent right now. Some would rather wait until they're forced to change, hence all the tension in society, even within households, which is the whole point of the article. A holier-than-thou attitude is not helpful, on either side of the discussion.
  14. David Gehring from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada writes: Sounds like this is just another tidbit of minutia from everyday life that couples will pointlessly argue over for little reason. And by the way Alistair, running an A/C during the summer could very will offset any of the benefits from the environmentally-friendly activities that you conduct, depending on how much power your A/C unit is consuming. Also, recycling in and of itself doesn't really help the environment as the recycling of many products is an energy-intensive process. Using LESS product such as buying bulk cereal (which is cheaper) rather than boxed cereal would probably help more than recycling. Of course, I wouldn't hassle my wife over these details. :)
  15. Philip Henderson from Houston, United States writes: When I first read this, I thought it was about Rachel Carson, the famous environmentalist who wrote "Silent Spring". It's somewhat ironic that someone with the same name (slightly different spelling) is almost the anti-eco character in this story. I wonder if Rachelle Carson knows about Rachel Carson...
  16. Brahm Lewandowski from Canada writes: Most of Mr. Begley's actions seem fairly reasonable for reducing his environmental footstep... but marrying a woman named Rachelle Carson might be taking things too far!
  17. Glynnmhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Collecting water also has an important effect in areas where water is not abundant. Toronto has a huge lake nearby, but Los Angeles (for example) has to pipe much of its water from distant mountain valleys.

    Saving the rainwater and using it only where you need it to be used makes more sense than letting it rush out over the landscape all at once, and losing much of it in the storm sewer system.
  18. John Silverman from Canada writes: Like anything else in a relationship it's all about compromise.

    You could write this same article about many subjects and the message would be the same. The eco-person should tone down a bit - or at least tone down making the other person do stuff - and the non-eco should become greener. It's so simple really.

    And I have to agree Voice of Reason, if anything it's the NON-eco people who will be outcasted, exactly like smokers, as the dirty ones. Not long from now I can't see how being "green" could possibly be a bad thing or make you a nut. But I could see not being green making you a nut.
  19. CD W from orillia, Canada writes: I hope they keep it humourous. We all need a good laugh over the coming doom of global heating or global cooling or alien death rays.
  20. Canuck In_HK from Hong Kong, Hong Kong writes: Alistair, before you go off the deep end calling informed consumers and conservationists: "fanatics, enviro-whackos, eco-nutters and Kyoto-junkees" with "personality disorders" why don't you READ THE STORY correctly, rather than reading into it all of your own pet hatreds ?

    First of all, the writer introduces us to one Lauren Gropper "who
    forbade her sister to bring regular laundry detergent into their Toronto apartment." Later in the story we read that Ms. Alexis Gropper [the sister] "moved into an apartment in Toronto with her sister, a green-building consultant." She went on to say:
    'I bought a box of Cheer and she wouldn't let me bring it in the house.' "

    Now I don't know if you've been to the store lately Alistair, but it was a box of "CHEER", NOT "CHEERIOS". The former is in fact the name of a brand of laundry detergent (powder). Some people, including those with chronic respiratory conditions, do have breathing troubles (from the steam/gas produced) when some of these laundry or dishwasher detergents are mixed with hot water.

    I know from a personal experience, when a roommate brought such detergent into my house, I freaked out, knowing that there were non-toxic, fair priced alternatives available for purchase in Canada. The alternative did not negatively impact upon my breathing. To me using the traditional detergent (instead of the eco-friendly alternative) would be akin to reverting back to leaded gasoline from unleaded when we know there are clear human health impacts associated with the use of the former.

    But perhaps you don't do the dirty laundry in your house or have breathing problems? Oh well, at least you are busy keeping an eye on the all the imaginary fanatics and eco-whakos out there...
  21. Rob Grant from writes: My wife recently coined the moniker 'eco-snob' to describe those who have the religion and judge others by how they measure up to their eco- standards. No one is perfect; we should stop moralizing.
  22. Darryl Williams from Dartmouth, NS, Canada writes: Well done Canuck in HK:

    I was just going to mention all the angst over "Cheerios", when in fact, the original article did not mention them.

    You beat me to it.
  23. David J. Parker from Edmontarsands, Canada writes: I do everything I can and my wife, my two children and I are all vegans. It is thanks to families like us that environmentalism is growing and reaching the consciouness of an ever growing number of people.
    Alas, it is a bit of a waste of time until governments take the eco-crisis seriously and curtail the destructive practices of industry and the really big emitters. Without the fundamental restructuring of the whole of society we will merely be easing our own consciences a bit.
    It doesn't look like Mr. Harper and company will "get it" in the near future. They profess to have had an epiphany and now see the light, but their actions belie their rhetoric. It is just about getting votes, and it won't work.
    We desperately need a change in government to any of the other parties -Green, Red or Orange, but certainly not Blue.
  24. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: David J. Parker - "Without the fundamental restructuring of the whole of society we will merely be easing our own consciences a bit." If you mean socialism, and I think you do, that's the problem with the eco-crowd. They see the global warming non-crisis as the perfect stick to browbeat everyone into guilt trips because consumers and capitalism is "bad." Sorry, but I'll eat as much steak as I want, and use as much energy as I need to, no more, no less.
  25. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Terry F. - there is a third way, which recognizes that capitalism is the best system to meet society's needs, and that consumption in ever-increasing quantities is not sustainable. The invisible green hand needs to nudge the market in the right direction, by taxing the things which have a cost to future generations (e.g. use of resources, pollution, etc.) and not the things that benefit them (e.g. income, savings, investments.)
  26. Barbara Francoeur from Toronto, Canada writes: Frankly, if environmental ideology comes between two people allegedly devoted to one another, then I suspect that the devotion didn't run as deep as they thought.

    If you require an ideological twin in order to feel you are "in love" and "committed" to another person, then I suggest you purchase a mirrior as wide and as tall as you are, and start bringing it everywhere you go. You'll never walk alone, but you conversations just might be a little one-sided.

    Oops! I forgot. ONE-SIDED CONVERSATIONS are what ideologues LOVE, especially if the voice is the ideologue's own!

    Note to self: Never date or marry people who think they own the patent on "social conscience" (i.e. you average Canadian ideologue).
  27. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Art Vandelai, I do not refer to anyone as a loon for making sacrifices. I write them off as loons only when they insist, despite my already considerable efforts to conserve, that I must go to extremes to satisfy their environmental agenda. I've known people who refused to own cars, and rollerbladed, biked, walked or bussed everywhere (and this was in Winnipeg, where the winters are brutal and public transit even MORE brutal) and I've respected them for their willingness to walk the walk. However, had any of these people crossed the border into Loonville by freaking out on my head for eating Cheerios, you can bet I'd have called them some choice names. Fortunately, they weren't like that.
  28. Alistair McLaughlin from Ottawa, Canada writes: Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Terry F. - there is a third way, which recognizes that capitalism is the best system to meet society's needs, and that consumption in ever-increasing quantities is not sustainable. The invisible green hand needs to nudge the market in the right direction, by taxing the things which have a cost to future generations (e.g. use of resources, pollution, etc.) and not the things that benefit them (e.g. income, savings, investments.)

    Agreed in full. "Nudging" is just so much easier, and in the long run, more effective. And I just noticed my mistake over Cheerios/Cheer.
  29. anu bose from ottawa, Canada writes: Ah the green thought police!
  30. Lindsay Martin from Vancouver, Canada writes: Ok for all the people talking about wackos not letting you eat Cheerios, the sister wouldn't let her bring Cheer into the house. Cheer is a brand of laundry detergent that is not eco friendly... There was absolutely nothing said about Cheerios.
  31. Lindsay Martin from Vancouver, Canada writes: ah yes I see you all caught the mistake. I didn't read all the comments before I commented myself.
  32. Ed Anger from Canada writes: Winnipeg is still too cold in the winter. We need some more man made climate change .... I like to idle my ford F150 for 20 minutes each morning in the winter. I will try to keep it down to 10 minutes...
  33. R. Wallace Hale from Canada writes: One would assume the genuine, dedicated eco-types have stipulated that, at death, their mortal remains will be composted. After all, burial and cremation are horrid wastes of energy.
  34. Rollo M from warmer but still grey, Belgium writes: Ed Anger, when I had a gasoline engine Jetta in Holland, the neighbours all frowned at me and gave me the Snit, the ultimate Dutch sound of disapproval, made by sucking your tongue sharply through your top teeth. I always idled a full 47 seconds before going anywhere. I drove about once a week, did everything else by bicycle, shopping, chauffering the kid, groceries. My neighbours drove their cars everywhere every day. They all started their cars by tromping on the gas pedal, dropping the parking brake and shifting into gear. Perception and reality often differ. Michael Moore says that GWB, with his underground cistern at Crawford, Texas. has the greenest house on the planet. The cistern keeps his house at 67 F year round. Wild grape vines cover the sunny front of our townhouse, benign on the stone, and on the hottest summer days (30s) it remains cool inside. After sweltering last summer, an immediate neighbour chose to stop scowling whenever my vines grew on his townhouse and instead smiled while they grew to cover it this summer. A cistern was added to the house 50 years ago, above ground, which collects rainwater that we pump into a sink behind the kitchen, use it for watering the gardens and cleaning the house and car. I'm hoping that there will be solar christmas lights on the market soon.
  35. CPT America from United States writes: "Although I'm against most of the "Green" Hollywood crowd, I have great respect for Mr. Begley - he is one of the few who talk the talk and walk the walk." What I want to know is, exactly how big his bungalo is in comparison to holloywood? You know like the Edwards that says there is two americas, the rich and the poor. Yet he lives in a 30,000 square foot "compound." You can start preeching to me when you turn you temp down to 58 degrees at night in the winter, no AC in summer, plant over 800 hardwood trees on your property, cut fuel use by 85%, and have a one acre garden!
  36. B Littmann from Canada writes: Like it or not, environmentalism does indeed have some religious overtones. It seems to give people a license to get involved in other people’s lives the way only religion does. Living with an environmentalist is similar to living with a religious spouse. Unrelenting questioning aside, it’s also very tiresome when a person becomes entirely predictable...
  37. Todd Sandrock from Canada writes: "Thinking about it" and "Voice of Reason"

    Thanks for clarifying. Where I live, which is a suburb / exurb, there are no storm drains and there is no central water, sanitary or storm sewers. What rains on my property mostly stays on my property and waters my garden, without cisterns and rain barrels. What falls on my house is mostly sent by downspouts back into the ground, away from the house. The house only covers a small proportion of the lot.

    My house potable water comes out of the ground on my lot, and when we're done with it, it goes back into the ground on my lot.

    We do supplement our watering occasionally by drawing from the river out back, but when the rain is exceptionally hard and the ground is saturated, the river gets our runoff via the grading of the lot. I'd guess we're probably about net-net even in our water transactions with the river.

    Our situation is hardly remarkable, which is perhaps the source of my confusion. I guess that doing it in urban California (and trying to have a flower garden in a climate that probably better calls for xericulture) is newsworthy, whereas living in the fringe countryside like people have for generations in Ontario is not. :)
  38. Barbara Francoeur from Toronto, Canada writes: I read somewhere that "average" levels of narcissism have increased a lot over the last 30 years, and is dangerously close to "dysfunctional" now. I think this article is a reflection of that. If you need someone to mirror your every political opinion, environmental perspective, emotional "take", etcetera, then you should buy yourself a tall, narrow mirror. Carry the mirrior with you wherever you go. If you are right-handed, carry the mirror on your right side. If you are left-handed, carry the mirror on your left side. Whenever you feel insecure or threatened, you have only to look right and left to find SOMEONE who agrees with absolutely everything you say and think. After work, you and your mirror can go for a nice intimate dinner at some romantic restaurant favoured by lovers. Following a your meal, you might linger over your coffee and ponder how lucky you are to have so wonderful a companion. Finally, you might stand up, pay the bill, and take in a movie - just you and your best friend. After the movie, take your mirror/best friend home. Indulge yourself. You can both share a nightcap - maybe two - ah, what the heck! Pop open a chilled bottle of Zinfandel! After a few glasses, if the lights are low and you get that "special feeling", you and your mirror can take advantage of one another. After all, it's/you're what you really want at every level. You're a 21st Century Self-Self-Esteem-Maintaining Robotic Voting Unit. Have a nice life.
  39. Dane N from Halifax, Canada writes: My roommate and I have pretty similar eco-views. We're both vegan, bike most of the time and drive very little, buy non-animl tested soaps and detergents, etc., but there are some little eco-trespasses that he does that annoy me, like leave on the lights and drive to fast. And since we split the electricity bill and split paying for gas, I think I have right to complain!

    I agree with David J Parker's statement that "governments [should] take the eco-crisis seriously and curtail the destructive practices of industry and the really big emitters. Both Bush and Harper are notorious for being in the hands of industry and it's time we elect new leaders who are going to be seriously committed to change. The first things our next prime minister should do: stop the horrific commercial seal hunt, stop logging old growth and honour our Kyoto commitments.

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