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A majority built on faith

BRIAN LAGHI AND KAREN HOWLETT

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:04 AM EDT 11/10/07

Tory loses in his own Toronto riding. Small parties make popular gains. Electoral reform soundly rejected ...Read the full article

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  1. AU GT from Long Beach, United States writes: Congratulations Toronto in re-electing McGuinty, you have discovered and claimed your very own Bill Clinton.....
  2. im mfad from Canada writes: So the support of 21 percent of eligible voters is enough for McGuinty to get a huge majority (42% x 50% turnout).
    Pathetic.
  3. Rachel F from Canada writes: Let me start out by saying for the record.. I did not vote Liberal... that said:

    AU GT ... call me crazy but I see a lot or red outside the GTA on this map...

    http://www3.elections.on.ca/internetapp/realtimehome.aspx?lang=en&channel_id={923146e7-4d81-42a8-99f0-e61f5ab50387}&lang=en

    so stop trying to shift the blame away from the other parties inability to convince voters that he was the man for the job.

    im mfad... you're right voter turnout was PATHETIC... but it hardly reflects on the McGuinty government since if he was that hated and they wanted him out that badly they would have come out in droves!
  4. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Poor turn out, wins majority in Ontario, Liberal lost in bi election in Quebec shakes Federal Liberals to work harder, Hugh turnout in Newfoundland leads to big major majority and Rodney MacDonlad in Nova Scotia sells the farm to PMSH......make your own conclusion but here I see Rodney going down the same as Mr. Tory sooner rather than latter. On the Federal sceen, one can never tell but all that I have mentioned are do to in part a fond dislike for Ottawa and 'THE BULLY ON THE HILL' my way or the highway is not an acceptable form of governence.

    Make no mistake PMSH has plans for a long time deployment in Afghanistan and in Canadains hearts they know that to be true.
  5. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, the Harper Gov't is Incompetent., Canada writes: im mfad from Canada writes: 'So the support of 21 percent of eligible voters is enough for McGuinty to get a huge majority (42% x 50% turnout). Pathetic. '

    I agree that the voter turnout was pathetic. That many people not voting is huge indicator of the state of Canadian politics. Not one leader worth taking 20 minutes out of your day to vote for a huge percentage of eligible voters. Lazy voters and lazy politicians.
  6. Bill M from Canada writes: A couple of years after I moved to Ontario, they voted in Bob Rae. I couldn't believe the voters of Ontario were that stupid and gullible. Well, last night they confirmed it. Hang on to your wallets. But to try and break even, start a pool as to which promise will be broken first. Put your money on the no new taxes, or the 9000 new nurses, or shutting down coal fired hydro plants.
  7. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: What a pathetic voter turnout. What can we make of this? A chance to rewrite the way politicians are elected! A visceral issue relating to how schooling is funded and less than or nearly 50% of people vote. I think we need to move to 'if you don't vote you are fined'!!!
  8. Ex Drone from Ottawa, Canada writes: It was important to send the message that Ontarians demand the separation of church and state. It is unfortunate that the election had to focus on that issue, but with the inanity of the Bush administration in the South and the noise from the handful of fundamentalist activists in the province, the principle had to be settled. Now, let's move on to the other issues.
  9. N N from Toronto, Canada writes: Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.
  10. Tony Soprano from The Bing, Canada writes: The big news here is not that Dalton won but that Ontario had to settle for another Dalton majority. How many times must I say this..

    There are no leaders left in Canada.
  11. Send in the Clowns and Dion too from Canada writes: Oh well as long as everyone votes for Canadian Idol!
    Pathetic turnout is right!
  12. A Guy from rural Ontario, Canada writes:

    Our first-past-the-post system has given us another illegitimate government.

    Voting should be mandatory and whoever governs must have 50% 1 of the seats.

    That would be called democracy.

  13. Starting Over from Canada writes: I agree with everyone on the voter turnout issue. Simply pathetic.

    If intelligent life is watching from somewhere 'Out there', the voters in Ontario have just proven that there is none here.

    We get what we deserve. Heaven help us.
  14. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: This is another prime example of the avalanche of destruction that can be caused when a bunch of flakes band together.

    Everyone focused on one unpopular idea, faith based education. I was not in favour of it either. However, unlike most of you I looked at the bigger picture.

    Oh well. I guess we are in for 4 more years of tax hikes, lies and unrestrained spending with no results.

    I am glad to see the Greens making some inroads on the popular vote. I like their fiscal and justice ideas. I am just concerned that their environmental ideas would drive business and jobs out of the province. If they mature their ideas about how to implement environmental policies without costing jobs they stand a good chance of getting my vote in future elections. I was on the fence this election. Conservative or Green. Ultimately I voted Conservative knowing full well they would not win.

    It is never fails to amaze me what bunch of lemmings Canadian voters tend to be.
  15. Bill M from Canada writes: N N from Toronto, Canada writes: Very nice to see the Green Party making significant gains in popular vote. This will be a party with some power within the next 5 years.

    Dream on. When the best they can come up with is six more stat holidays, and hammer the poor by eliminating income taxes and skyrocketing the cost of energy, they'll be on the outside looking in for a long time.
  16. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Starting Over from Canada writes: 'If intelligent life is watching from somewhere 'Out there', the voters in Ontario have just proven that there is none here.'

    The most definitive proof that there is intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is the fact that it has chosen to NOT contact us.
  17. just me anywhere from Canada writes: 'Congratulations Toronto in re-electing McGuinty, you have discovered and claimed your very own Bill Clinton.....' NAWWWWWWWWWW...Bill Clinton has class.
  18. IEM Canadian from Canada writes: Time Bend over Ontario. The Rae days are back!
  19. poida smith from Canada writes: payback for the Harris years continues! all of you clowns who voted Harris and his PC henchmen in can stew in it now for another 4 years! McGuinty's lies are nothing compared to the wholesale gutting of our education and healthcare system wrought by 'iron Mike' and his merry band of malcontents
  20. gord winters from Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: 'This is another prime example of the avalanche of destruction that can be caused when a bunch of flakes band together.'

    some of us think democracy is a pretty good thing. you might be more comfortable in another country. your choices are shrinking. democracy is spreading.

    with all its quirks and failings. its a pretty good system.

    i'm for democracy.

    anyone else?
  21. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: What happened to the turnout? According to CTV last night voters were 'flocking to the polls'.
  22. Barry from Ontario from Canada writes: The low voter turnout was indeed pathetic but don't assume it means people simply didn't bother to show up. While that's certainly true in some cases, how about those who were 'ready, able and willing' to vote but simply rejected what was on offer?
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot. It would be an easy way for voters to register their displeasure and I bet the numbers would be interesting.
  23. Bill M from Canada writes: poida smith from Canada writes: payback for the Harris years continues! all of you clowns who voted Harris and his PC henchmen in can stew in it now for another 4 years! McGuinty's lies are nothing compared to the wholesale gutting of our education and healthcare system wrought by 'iron Mike' and his merry band of malcontents

    And why didn't Dalton fix it? He was one of the loudest screamers when welfare rates were cut by Iron Mike (promise kept) but Dalton never put the rates back where they were. Why does dalton continue to claw back the federal Child Tax Benefit from the poorest children in Ontario? Are you real proud of that Poida?

    Why do millions of Ontarians still not have a family doctor? Why didn't he hire 8,000 new full time nurses? but not to worry. He made sure that religious zealots won't have their schools. As he said in his speech last night, all Ontarians are equal. He just forgot to add that Catholics are more equal than others. intolerant religious bigot is what he is.
  24. just me anywhere from Canada writes: 'if he was that hated and they wanted him out that badly they would have come out in droves!' There is another angle. The people KNOW politics and politicians are a scam and full of spin. The days of honesty and integrity have long been over. The entire election process is nothing more than a formality for BullS. Wealth controls all. One day the people will finally wisen up and take a stand by whatever means is necessary. I do hope I should live long enough to see that day. But whatever. Bottom line is Bush still controls Canada in his indirect route. Heil Bush!
  25. Send in the Clowns and Dion too from Canada writes: Our taxes will be raised, our health care will not improve, virtually none of the promises made by the king of breaking promises will be kept, and I predict the faith based school issue will arise again, only this time as a legal challenge based on human rights , discrimination sort of thing... ultimately to be accepted by or forced upon the McGuinty liars.

    Also Leafs dont win the Stanley Cup...all solid guaranteed predictions..bank on them!
  26. Raymond P from Canada writes: Apathetic voter turnout. In Czech their first election post communism had a phenomenal turnout. Since then voter participation has dropped as low as the Ontario turnout. Politics is a game for those with money to play. The apathy, in my opinion, comes from the disparity between the type of people running for office and the public at large. The average Canadian politician doesn't understand living pay cheque to paycheque. The average Canadian doesn't understand (or accept) the perks and salary of an elected official. If this disparity remains Canadian voters will continue to be apathetic.
  27. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: gord winters from Canada writes: 'some of us think democracy is a pretty good thing. you might be more comfortable in another country. your choices are shrinking. democracy is spreading.'

    If this were a democracy the Liberals would have won with 41% of the seats, not 67%.
  28. Tim Bee from Canada writes: 42% is pretty good.

    I think John Tory should concentrate now on doing what is fair regarding public funding of religious schools and work towards removing it for Catholic schools.
  29. A G from Canada writes: Ex Drone from Ottawa, Canada writes: It was important to send the message that Ontarians demand the separation of church and state. It is unfortunate that the election had to focus on that issue, but with the inanity of the Bush administration in the South and the noise from the handful of fundamentalist activists in the province, the principle had to be settled. Now, let's move on to the other issues.

    Ex-Drone - do you know that the Catholic school system is currently funded by the state? From your comment, you don't know that.
  30. Patriots in 2007 from Toronto, Canada writes: At rush hour yesterday, my local polling station was nearly empty, no lineup and it took me a whole 2 minutes to vote. The way that I look at the 50% turnout, it just means that MY vote is worth double.

    I only had four candidates in my riding - the 3 major parties plus the Greens. None of the big 3 parties represent my political views. The Freedom Party best represents my political views but they didn't have a candidate in my riding, I would also be open to the Libertarians but they also don't have a candidate in my riding. So, I only had one choice open to me as more of a protest vote. Go Greens! It's nice to see the Greens making some headway in the popular vote.

    I mainly only disagreed with the proportional representation referendum because they were proposing to increase the total number of MPPs. I am all for the concept, but we need LESS government, not MORE.
  31. Tim Bee from Canada writes: A Guy from rural Ontario, Canada writes:
    Our first-past-the-post system has given us another illegitimate government.
    Voting should be mandatory and whoever governs must have 50% 1 of the seats.

    That would be called democracy....

    Why would you want to force people who don't have any interest in voting, or a grasp of the issues, to vote?
  32. Jack Bauer from toronto, Canada writes: I am not stuck on one party and Tory did not deserve to win, but McGuinty should have been punished with a minority governement at the very least.
  33. Bill M from Canada writes: steve C from Canada writes: First, voting for a party, even the Lying Liberals is a privilege in a democracy. If you do not vote, you lose the fabric that governs our great country.

    You also lose your right to critisize the government. If you don't make an attempt to determine the outcaome of an election, you have no say on what the outcome reslults in.
  34. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes:

    The two provincial elections demonstrated a very strong anti-harper backlash. In NL the massive majority was given to Danny Williams' party largely on the basis of his highly justified anti-harper stance. and in ON the rather lackluster McGuinty led his party to a very strong majority also on the basis of anti-harper sentiments arising from the his muzzlement's attempts to significantly weaken ON both economically and politically.

    The QUE vote also showed how easily votes could be bought by the feds. so as to keep their toy boy leader in nominal charge.

    Overall, there were significant eletoral platform issues which influenced some of the voting. but added to the final decisons was the increasingly hostile backlash to the harper muzzlement style.

    CONGRATULATIONS WILLIAMS AN MCGUINTY FOR A JOB WELL DONE!
  35. Mike Charles from Canada writes: I think the best thing Tory can do is get rid of the Harper like hair! A visit the barber shop today will do wonders for his chances net time . And I should add there is nothing wrong with grey!!
  36. Canadian In Motown from United States writes: And once again, Ontario gets what Ontario deserves.
  37. john chuckman from Canada writes: Four more years of the smarmy one.

    The election itself tells us something is wrong with our system.

    Fifty-eight percent of voters rejected the ferret and he gets a majority?
  38. Tom Thumb from Guelph, Canada writes: WHAAAA, WHAAAAA

    A lot of sour grapes this morning. Grow up and get over it. The people have spoken.
  39. S Loughead from Mississauga, Canada writes: I am not that thrilled with Dalton McGuinty, however I could not bring myself to support the Conservatives with S Harper at the top. I do think John Tory would have been good, I just could not support his party.
    I hope that McGuinty does not let us down again. I am a little surprised at the majority he won.
  40. Paul F. from Toronto, Canada writes: This whole election was pathetic. Not that I was rooting for him, but clearly the Liberals were vunerable in this election and Tory blew it. His strategy didn't make any sense. All he had to do was distance himself from Harris, paint himself a red Tory and he would have won. No, he had to run on the nutty funding for faith based school position.

    Those denouncing McGuinty victory seem to miss two facts. First, less that a 50% turnout is basically a statement of no confidence in ANY of the leaders in the province. The 'I don't like any of the parties' party won. Didn't surprise me. The polls were empty where I voted. Second, the opposition in Ontario made a point of NOT being the opposition. I saw no substantial debate on issues (energy, education, health) besides the faith based school option, and then, it was to keep the bizarre status quo where Catholic schools continue to get public money.
  41. S Young from Ottawa, Canada writes: It's funny to watch the supporters of the status quo (a.k.a. religious discrimination) heave a sigh of relief imagining that this election somehow vindicates publicly-supported religious indoctrination. No, 'faith-based' funding as an issue not over. It hasn't even begun. Ontario has never been given the democratic opportunity to eliminate ALL faith-based funding and keep public dollars in public education. It's absolutely clear that that's what the public wants. So why on earth will no politician offer it?

    Kudos to Frank de Jong and the Greens for doing the right thing--and tripling their popular vote in the process!

    The CBC journalist is half-way there when he says, 'The decision to
    give public money to Catholic schools sunk the Tories in 1985 and 22
    years later, a similar issue has relegated the Conservatives to the
    opposition benches for another four years.'

    Maybe in the next election Ontario will actually be given a choice on the matter of public funding for Roman Catholic schools.

    How about it, Dalton, Howard, John? How about we pay attention to the United Nations Human Rights Committee's 2 condemnations of Ontario's religious apartheid? How about we face up to the hypocrisy and instead of paying lip-service to 'fairness' we actually practice it? How about we stop punishing Ontarians who were born into the 'wrong' religion?

    It's 2007, for pete's sake, and the politicians (not the people, thank goodness) are still in 1859. Woman can now vote, and the province has more than just Protestants and Catholics.
  42. Gord Chauhan from Canada, Canada writes: Steve C, I guess by immigrant you mean practically everyone, that is what our country was built on...check your Grade 3 history The Scottish, British, Germans and American Loyalists were all immigrants!!

    Malcontent, Sore Bigot Losers like yourself make me sick. When are you leaving for Alberta? The sooner the better.

    As for the election, 10%, 20%, 50%... Those who didn't vote have no right to complain, those who did have to live with the results. That's our democracy. It's funny how supporters of the losers of this election use that argument( re: 42% x 50% turnout= 21% support) for Ontario but not on the federal scene where Steven Harper had even LOWER popular support numbers! Sophistry at its best!
  43. Michael Manning from Mississauga, Canada writes: And once again the 'if you didn't vote they way I did you must be stupid' crowd is out in full force.

    These people come in two flavours.

    On the hard right we have those that want no government and can't figure out why everyone won't agree with them.

    On the left we have the folks that have given up trying to convince the rest of us that they are right and have taken to championing any electoral scheme that gives them more power than their popularity warrants. Because they don't get to be in government the results of the election are 'bogus' and 'undemocratic'.

    There was only one substantive policy difference between the Liberals and the PC's and that's what people voted on. Don't blame the electorate, blame the political parties.
  44. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Barry from Ontario from Canada writes:
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot.

    What a fascinating and rather scary idea! That said, perhaps it is time to make it a law to vote.

    Many have given their lives for this precious 'right.' and privilege to live in a free democracy. Is mandating people to take 15 minutes out of their life so demanding? Wouldn't the result be more credible?

    Most elections only have a 50% turnout and a govt. usually wins with 40% of that. Hence the true backing of only 20%! That goes for all elections. Sad!

    While I understand that filling out census forms is important for govt.planning and social spending, how can it be against the law not to fill this out, but OK not to vote and express what a total population feels-even if it includes voting for 'none of the above.'

    I cannot see how this would be a negative. It would force people to get involved and the results of more involvement can only help the process and the country.

    Good luck Ontario.
  45. Cardinal Richelieu from TORONTO, Canada writes: not surprising when one remembers that John Tory ran the Kim Campbell campaingn to two seas. I only hope that the PC's become Conservatives again and stop running away from the proud legacy of Mike Harris. Please end this plague of UCC silver spoon Red Tories.
  46. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: While I like John Tory, none of the platforms sat well enough with me that I could vote for ANY of the parties and that is the first time in my voting life that I have felt that way. I voted, however I exercised my right to officially Decline, which gets recorded as such, which is essentially an official 'None of the above' vote. In the end, that is the only vote that sat well with me. I have been waiting for the next election since shortly after McGuinty took power so that I could vote him out. All I can do is at least take some comfort that I did not personally vote McGuinty IN. I'm convinced that the election would have turned out entirely different if Tory had not brought forward the issue of faith-based funding.
  47. Gord Chauhan from Canada, Canada writes: Tom Thumb: Agreed.
    Any cheese to go with the vinegar?

    I mean whine?
  48. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Mixed Member Porportional would have given McGuinty a minority and Hampton the balance of power.
  49. rob saunders from Belleville, Canada writes: I still don't have a family doctor and I still have to breath all that coal fired powerplant pollution. How many more years do you think it will be before they get shutdown, next election maybe. I agree with the voter apathy. 90 percent of the people where i work have no family doctor and their about about 2000 of us, so the numbers province wide must be terrible. I have no problem with the liberal platform, in fact, I AGREE WITH MOST OF IT, BUT PERFORMANCE DID NOT MATCH EXPETATIONS.
  50. Kevin Henning from Canada writes: Regarding the low voter turnout... not surprised. I found out Monday where I was supposed to vote only by going to the Elections Ontario website... and they directed me to the wrong poll. Never did get a registration card (neither did about half of the folks in the poll when I was there). Didn't last time around, either. It isn't like this is rocket science, or I just moved to a new house, I've been in my house for 16 years! On the other hand, I know one guy who got his registration 3 times (but then again, he lives in the city, and just moved into a new house about 5 weeks ago).

    I find myself wondering if the best thing that could have been done for the referendum was to prohibit 'party discipline', so the directly elected MPPs actually could vote to represent their constituents, that all directly elected MPPs be nominated and elected to run by their local riding associations (after all, if the leader wants to parachute in a 'star candidate', they can put them on the list), and adding a 'None of the above' option.
  51. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Barry from Ontario from Canada writes:
    If you want a truer indication of what the electorate thinks - simply add a 'None of the above' option to the ballot.

    What a fascinating and rather scary idea! That said, perhaps it is time to make it a law to vote.

    R. Carriere, as I said in my previous post, I registered my vote as a Decline. Under Section 53 of the Ontario Election Act, you can hand your ballot back to the returning officer stating that you decline, they mark 'Decline' on the ballot and it gets officially recorded as a Decline and is essentially a 'None of the above' vote. While my wee little Decline doesn't make much of a dent, it was the only thing that sat well with ME.
  52. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Morning, Michael Manning 'There was only one substantive policy difference between the Liberals and the PC's and that's what people voted on. '

    Not even. Dalton will do nothing that threatens the existence of his families religious schools and thus sooner or later he will fund schools of other religions because it will be the only way to keep the schools of the pope open in Ontario. Sad but true. This is a victory for fear, prejudice, wedge politics, lying and Warren Kinsella - a uber-loyal Chretien man.

    Those of you who deplore the tactics of the US right have seen more of them used for the first time in Canada this last few weeks than ever before. Sad.
  53. B T from Canada writes: Didn't see the victory speech but did Dalton actually say that 'Ontarians are saying we have not voted for the status quo'?? What the hell did they vote for then? This guy really is a bigger clown than he appears.

    Good luck Ontario... you're going to need it.
  54. Bill M from Canada writes: S Loughead from Mississauga, Canada writes: I am not that thrilled with Dalton McGuinty, however I could not bring myself to support the Conservatives with S Harper at the top. I do think John Tory would have been good, I just could not support his party.

    S - You're confusing federal and provincial parties. Look how Danny Williams, 'Conservative' premier of Newfoundland, has a hate on for Harper, and he just won a landslide victory. Otherwise, pretty pathetic that you would vote for a party with Stephane Dion at the top!
  55. D K from Canada writes: Enjoy the tax increase
  56. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Trish Taylor from Canada : Morning Trish. I did see your post and congratulate you. You did the right thing showing up.

    .
  57. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Trish 'they mark 'Decline' on the ballot and it gets officially recorded as a Decline and is essentially a 'None of the above' vote. While my wee little Decline doesn't make much of a dent, it was the only thing that sat well with ME.'

    And if the province offered a vote on an amendment where if enough of us Declined, the parties would all have to go back and find better candidates, I would vote for that. That would be an improvement over the current system.

    That, and some method of recalling politicians.
  58. E A from Canada writes: I think this board displays a problem as big or bigger than the voter turnout - the utter lack of knowledge about our system and politics in general. 'A guy from rural Ontario' is a case in point - first of all, 71 seats is 66%, which in my calculations is more than 50% of the seats. And perhaps if what was meant is that the party should have more than 50% of the votes, I fail to see how that would be possible in our 5 party system.
  59. Bill M from Canada writes: Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Mixed Member Porportional would have given McGuinty a minority and Hampton the balance of power.

    That would be an even scarier proposition. Loony left being controlled by the loonier left.
  60. Paul Jay from Canada writes: Electoral reform soundly rejected? That's a peculiar headline. 54% of us voted in favour of it. A better headline might be - Strong Majority Favour Electoral Reform, Fall Just Short of 60% Threshold.
  61. Mike........ Just Mike from Toronto, Canada writes: Congradulations to the people of Ontario. Although Dalton has his faults he is the best of the worst. People of Ontario still remember Harris and his confrontational style and opted for something else...Yes many will comment how we in Ontario are stupid or this and that but frankley they can shove it. Tory ran a disasterous campaign and didn't offer the voters anything. He was very good at pointing out Dalton's faults while simpley not telling us what HE would do. So looks good on him. Also I agree with the posters dissapointed with the low voter turn out. It truly is a sad comment on the people at large whom can't be bothered enough to go and take five minutes of their time to vote. It literally took me less then five minutes. Also the low voter turn out could be seen as traditional tory supporters staying home due to Johnny boys horrible campaigne etc.
  62. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: EA (and Bill M) ' perhaps if what was meant is that the party should have more than 50% of the votes, I fail to see how that would be possible in our 5 party system. '

    A run off election with the top 2 candidates would guarantee that the winner had a majority of the votes as would an 'ordered' preference ballot. (First choice, second choice, etc.) There are better ways to improve our system rather than the Party hack appointee list and fringe party encouraging MMP.
  63. Nestor C from Canada writes: What can you expect people! A low turnout...why on earth would John Q Public vote for any of these guys....no vision for the future on the next couple of years to get re-elected. I voted, as I always do, but there are lots of people who just don't feel politics makes a difference in their day to day lives...what we need is someone to inject some passion and some vision into our society.

    Last night, people choose 4 more years of navel gazing.....which is not necessarily a bad thing after 8 years of hack and slash.....but let's call a spade a spade, fact is, McGunity and his gang have done squat in the 4 yrs they have been in power.....it's nearly impossible to stick anything to him outside of 'breaking promises' because there isn't anything to stick him with....what did he do??? And before I get bashed, I'm 100% non-partisan, just calling it like I see it.

    At least people hated Harris for a reason...because they could find reason to hate him.....people are apathetic with McGunity...see the voter turnout for confirmation
  64. jose quail from Guelph, Canada writes: somebody get the vasoline.......theres gonna be some penetration
  65. Kanti Dinda from oakville, Canada writes: Welcome to 4 more years of incompetent government, congrats Ontario!
  66. Allan Martel from Canada writes: All sides of the political debate are teeing off here but most agree that the voter turnout was unacceptable in a functioning democracy.

    Some have suggested a 'None of the Above' selection on the ballot; others, mandatory voting with fines for non-compliance. There are probably other solutions that can be developed and put forward.

    With the referendum question defeated, we must find other ways to ensure that parties in power operate from real mandates. It is true that the Liberal majority is based upon 42% of the votes. Since only 50% (or less) of voters voted, the Liberal 'majority' has been endorsed by only 21% of eligible voters in Ontario.

    This is not unprecedented but it is also not anywhere near ideal. I would be interested to explore other ideas about how ro resolve this issue although I am simply one voter among many and not in any position to lead this issue.
  67. D K from Canada writes: Trish: you weren't the only one to decline. The party platforms were weak at best and the candidates in my riding were no where to be found. Having a vacant seat in my riding would be more of a voice at Queen's Park. Very lame! Now who wants to take bets on the number of weeks until the Liberals raise taxes?
  68. Steve Turner from Canada writes: A lot of sour grapes indeed. Clearly, this province fears Conservatism in all its shapes and forms. To add insult to injury, the next possible Con leader -Frank Klees- only won by 1300 votes in a riding he was expected to clean relatively unknown Liberal Christina Bisanz's clock. Tim 'cross-the-floor-to-the-Cons' Petersen was crushed by over 5000 votes by the Lib, and 'safe' Con ridings, like Lanark-Frontenac, were kept by a mere 500 votes, when the Cons used to win by the thousands over their opponents. In essence, I also think that the intolerance exhibited by Caucasian-Canadians at places like Caledonia, coupled with the type of intolerant rantings from similar groups about Immigrants or muslims, and how Tory was perceived to support these groups put the fear of God in non-Caucasian voters in urban areas, like Toronto and London and Ottawa, and that is yet another reason why the Libs -not my favorite by any means- got another majority. I think that the religious issue wasn't the sole factor as many here have been whining about, but rather the fact that the cons also seem to attract the the bigot vote, and that leads to the perception that conservatism is a thin veil for intolerance. For instance, it might have been a good idea for Tory to extend an invite to Six Nation's reps when he went to Caledonia. Instead, he only met with Caucasian people, some of whom have made outrageous claims about Natives in general, and who have contributed to hard feelings in the area. What was his message? 'get tough on Indians'...as if Natives were not worthy of being considered Ontarians as well. Well, I hope the Cons learn from this.
  69. Nobel Laureate from Canada writes:


    ... meh, it could have been worse ...
  70. Mtl Quebec from Montreal, Canada writes: Another proof that Ontario is the worse province in the country.
  71. E A from Canada writes: Great idea, Guillaume, I'm sure the voter turnout would be even BETTER for that.
  72. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Nestor 'people are apathetic with McGunity...see the voter turnout for confirmation'

    I think it is more like the declines in federal turnout through the dark Chretien years. It became clear over those bleak years that it was literally impossible to remove him from power, so there was no reason for most people to vote, thus the declines to a all-time low voter turnout, and a significant rise once Mr Harper, and the libz removal was a realistic choice.

    In Ontario, once we all knew that hated Mcguinty was going to win there was no reason to further encourage the people who make our lives worse.
  73. Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes:

    Hold onto your wallets.

    .
  74. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Four more years of the LIEBERALS = four more years of religious BIGOTRY. 'Caledonia' McGuinty will make sure only his Catholic schools get public funding while all other denominations are denied this prevelige. I wonder if this 'Papal envoy' is going to get a very special blessing from his 'holy father' for continuing this outrage.
  75. Most politicians are crooks, don't you think? from Toronto, Canada writes: John Tory should run federally now and go for the three-peat. On second hand, maybe he'd have a better chance if he ran as a school-board trustee. Can't wait until we boot him out and get a real leader in our party.
  76. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: stunning results. Catholics are more important than other religions in the minds of people from Ontario?
  77. Vern McPherson from writes: Clearly the misfits are the noisiest of all Ontarians. But they are not in the majority are they ? And tanks got for that.

    One thing is for sure - the forum this morning makes it clear that if the results were reversed plenty of Ontario citizens would be ignored and shunned by the dictatorial policies of the far right. So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk.

    All the doom and gloomers are out in full force and they won't shut up even if they have good and reasonable and steady government instead of inventing a new planet.
  78. Don Adams from Canada writes: Trish. Quite a concept...I didn't know it was an option....probably most people don't. I've always advocated going out to vote, but just placing a large X right across the ballot as a protest vote if you didn't like anyone running.

    Rob, I agree voting should be mandatory....an OBLIGATION of citizenship....get off your fat a$$ and vote, even doing it the way Trish suggested. $ 5,000 fine for those that didn't vote. It's simply laziness and apathy and a system that allows people to be this way.

    I'm glad MMP failed, but I'm afraid we haven't seen the last of it. SIGS have this nasty habit of just niggling away at you, promoting their own special interest and ignoring other issues.

    I was surprised, my candidate did get in as expected, but not with the #'s of votes we expected....pretty close race.

    I hate to have to say it, but congrats to Dullton on his win. He didn't win by anything he did, but by what Tory did. Hopefully we'll get rid of this clown.... he just doesn't have it to be a leader, let alone Premier.
  79. Martha K from Canada writes: What's unbalanced here is that Mr. McGuinty got 42% of the popular vote to Mr. Tory's 35%. That is only a 12% spread and Mr. McGuinty should not be bold enough to think this a mandate to act and govern as if he had a majority government. Yes, techically he received 3X the seats, but not 3X the popular vote.

    What bothers me about this is how the Liberals rode the coat-tails of this faith-based school funding issue. They literally pounced on it and made it part of their campaign - in fact in commercials, that's all they talked about! Now I hear that there are cuts being made to certain Ontario school boards. Can anyone expound on that?

    I'd like to note that many individuals also are not aware that the 2.3 billion that Mr. McGuinty collected from us last year for the Health Tax - which was supposed to support the healthcare system and for which we were all asked to forgive and forget because this was a needed expense - well, the monies went into a 'general' pool. Does everyone know that? It was not all ear-marked for health! That was a well-kept secret too.

    This is the kind of government many of you voted in. Very little accountability to the people of Ontario. So sad.
  80. Dom L from Toronto, Canada writes: So does this mean we get a holiday in February????
  81. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: E A 'Great idea, Guillaume, I'm sure the voter turnout would be even BETTER for that.'

    I suspect it would actually.
    I try to do my own version of that personally by finding out what the polling in my riding shows and voting for the leading candidate if I like them, or the second candidate to put them over the top.

    Last federal election in my riding we had thousands of conservatives voting for the NDP to keep a liberal from winning. It worked! If there was a way to keep Dalton from power, the turnout would have increased, IMHO.
  82. Mike Dupuis from Canada writes: Congratulations Trish Taylor.

    Not having any issues of importance to me I at lease excercised my voting right last night. I simply wasted my vote. I didn't like what was on the election platform of any of the parties.

    Couldn't vote for NDP or the Green the party as I am a nuclear worker. Nothing like voting your career away.
  83. John Silverman from Canada writes: This is great news for Ontario!

    Alot of sour grapes here, just b/c not everyone agrees with you? Well blame Tory and Mike Harris and the rest of the lying conservative party. Ontario has been booming for years now, I see no reason to be so down on McGuinty, at least not when faced with the alternatives.

    BTW my polling station was packed with a huge line-up.
  84. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Are the people who wrote this article on dope? They write that 'Changing the system received 54 per cent, six points below the 60 per cent threshold needed to pass.' Mixed Member Proportional received 36.7% of the vote, 23.3% short of the necessary 60% to pass. They write that 'Fewer than 50 per cent of Ontarians cast ballots' but according to the Elections Ontario website 52.6% turned out to vote. I guess the proportional representation hysterics have now resorted to printing outright lies in order to trick people into buying what their selling.
  85. Hortence Washington from Canada writes: John Silverman - why is it that your party is known as the LIEBERALS?
  86. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: McGuinty did not win this election, Tory lost it pure and simple. McGuinty was toast going into this thing, and should be on hands and knees thanking Tory for introducing the 'public funding for religious schools' fiasco. This one issue alone is what cost the PC's the election.

    If anyone on this board thinks that Ontario has a love affair with the Liberals of McGuinty for that matter (Outisde the GTA that is) think again.

    Mind you, it was very predictable that the voters would hand McGuinty a majority in a knee jerk reaction instead of voting strategically and keeping those clowns to a minority government.

    Had to laugh last night how CTV was attempting to spin this liberal cough* 'victory' *cough around and correlate it somehow to the federal LPC about to gain momentum. What a joke.
  87. r r from London, Canada writes: ' was surprised, my candidate did get in as expected, but not with the #'s of votes we expected....pretty close race'

    Not many view Hillier as you do. A weakened PC party will not appreciate a loose cannon.

    Wonder what the PC party brass will do to get Hillier to shut up in the legislature? Perhaps he will have a hunting or tractor 'accident'.
  88. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Some of the people have spoken.
  89. Just a Lucky So-and-So from Tirana, Canada writes:
    Rich, blue-blooded, very smart, connected and good looking is no longer the winning formula for success in the GTA and Ontario in general anymore.

    So long John Tory!

    Although the winners are more or less white, this is diversity at work.

    Good.
  90. Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: 50% voter turn out but our current electoral system is just fine? I think the emperor has new clothes...
  91. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Chris Land you are correct about the MMP thing, I have no idea where the 'reporters' who put this article together got those massively incorrect figures.

    Here is a more accurate sentence 'Preliminary results from the binding referendum showed voters rejecting a system that awards legislature seats in line with a party's popular support by a margin of almost 2-1.'

    The only thing more scary than a dalton victory, is a dalton minority with his union buddies holding the balance of power!
  92. Bill M from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk.

    Vern and others, drop the Harris nonsense. You're the first ones to scream if Cons blame Martin and the Liberals for anything, and he's been out for less than two years, after thirteen years in power. Harris has been gone for more than six years. Find another boogey man.
  93. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: Mr. Tory is the architect of his own misfortune-where were his advisers and handlers when he started on this disastrous course?
  94. Alex Yaxmos from Canada writes: The voting public of Ontario have spoken, another four years of Liberal majority. You people just have to deal with it. Ain't Dalton's fault Tory was an idoit. He should have focus more on health care and the environment. Anyways, 42% of the people that voted wanted the Liberals and that is democracy. It's not the perfect system, but it's the system we have in place. maybe if Elections Canada had done a better job of educating people on the electoral reform, things could start to improve. Ontarians want a government that works and get things done. You can only do that effectively with a majority government. The liberals have a majority government. let's get things done.
  95. E A from Canada writes: I hope you are ready to pay millions of dollars more per election then, Guillaume. I don't know if you have ever witnessed the vote counting process, but it is done by hand, at each ballot. There is no way to account for alternate choices, since the method as it is now is to make piles of each candidate, and then count up the votes.

    But, assuming we're good with the spending of millions of more dollars so that you have the opportunity to let the world know who you would kinda like (but not as much as this other guy/girl) representing you. One of two (or maybe a combination of them) things will happen.

    First, people who don't have a second choice (because they are a one-party person, because they think everyone else isn't worth voting for - whatever) will either be pressured into voting for someone they don't believe in, or they will stay away.

    Second, I'm sorry to say, but your conservatives won't fare well. Sure, there may in the past (or perhaps only in your head, as often occurs with people who believe they are 'voting strategically') have been Green/NDP voters who would have had a Conservative second choice. But you can't possibly believe that that would be the case 99% of the time. Face it, the conservatives are benefitting from a united right and a left split three ways.
  96. A good Canadian from Canada writes: Another LIEbral win... What 'premium' will he put in on ths term?

    Hortence Washington from Canada writes: Four more years of the LIEBERALS = four more years of religious BIGOTRY. 'Caledonia' McGuinty will make sure only his Catholic schools get public funding while all other denominations are denied this prevelige. I wonder if this 'Papal envoy' is going to get a very special blessing from his 'holy father' for continuing this outrage.

    In Ontario, faith based funding of public schools is only allowed for English and French speaking Catholics.

    I though LIEbrals were a party of inclusion regardless of race, religion, or language, not a party of 'what is good for us, you can not have'.

    Little wonder Ontario is spiraling around the toilet bowl...
  97. Don Adams from Canada writes: RR from London...you should be so lucky as to have someone like Randy in Parliament standing up, going against the flow, in order to protect YOUR rights. Nope, not a loose cannon, just an ordinary man who see's an injustice being done and isn't politically correct enough to just sit back and accept it like most sheepish politicians do. Do whatever is necessary to have it corrected. A man with integrity. Unfortunately, we see very few in politics these days, and it sure is nice that BOTH my MPP (Randy Hillier) and MP (Scott Reid) are such honourable, hardworking individuals who have their constituent's well being at heart.
  98. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: Just a Lucky'Rich, blue-blooded, very smart, connected and good looking is no longer the winning formula for success'

    (Don't know about your 'diversity' argument, however) When John Turner went down to double defeat many years ago, it was the end of that era. Well OK, so he wasn't 'very smart' , but all the rest. And Catholic too!
  99. André Clément from Sudbury ON, Canada writes: The Globe and Mail should report more extensively on the less than 50% turn out at the polls. How many votes were spoiled - deliberately by those who made their way to the polls to say 'I choose none of these candidates, I reject the roster of choices made available to me. Start over.' The publicists lament the low turn outs, shrug it off as apathy, express vague concerns about voters not fulfilling their civic duties and carry on. What the Globe and Mail should not ignore is the malaise we have in this province which is reflected across the country. Citizens are makinhg choices by inaction, but what are they? and why are they making them? Non-participation is weakening our democracy and a weak democracy is something we cannot afford as international infuences will increasingly challenge our national intelligence and as the corporate world continues to jokey for more influence in the political process. Voters need a clearer system to register their rejection of candidates and the electoral process needs to measure the pulse of its democratic system at every election to ensure it is providing for the representation it is now falsely claiming.
  100. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Here is my effort to describe the election results of last night assuming that the referendum had passed a year ago and that its rules were used last night: Liberals would have 71/107*90 seats = 60 seats. PCs would have 26/107*90 seats = 22 seats NDP would have 10/107*90 = 8 seats Greens would have 0 seats. Next, the parties would divide up the remaining seats (26 I believe) based upon their popular vote provided they won at least 5 seats. Liberals .42*26 = 11 seats PC .32*26 = 8 seats NDP .17*26 = 4 seats This leaves 3 of the 26 seats unallocated so I must be doing something wrong or else the Greens got screwed, but I might be close. So final totals : Liberals 60 plus 11 seats = 71 seats PCs 22 plus 8 seats = 30 seats NDP 8 plus 4 seats = 12 seats Now I realise that the numbers don't add up and that my initial method of allocating the 90 seats leads statistically to almost identical results as under the current system. What interests me is that the Liberals would have had 71 seats out of 116, an even larger majority and that the NDP would have received as many as a few more seats. Besides demonstrating that I have way too much free time on my hands, I don't think that this analysis proves much of anything but it beats reading the partisan name calling of most of the other posts contained herein.
  101. D J from Canada writes: Less than 50% turnout. Understandable because voters are fed up voting for all the liars HOWEVER the MMP option provided voters with a chance to CHANGE the system and what do voters do....NOT SHOW UP.

    No excuse anymore from those who whine and complain but didn't vote!
  102. Seb D from Ottawa, Canada writes: Yes, voter turnout was pathetic.

    If McGuinty was that hated, and Ontario was such a hell hole after 4 years of Liberal government, then why didn't voters come out in droves?
  103. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: Thank goodness a conservative occasionally gets to say what's really on his mind.

    Guess the great talking head in Ottawa didn't get to him in time.
  104. Durward Saar from Canada writes: It's official...Ontario has the dumbest voters in Canada.
  105. M Horon from Calgary, Canada writes: Duceppe is campaigning against multiculturalism. Why would he be vote garnering in Ontario?
  106. Vern McPherson from writes: Bill M from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: So it was a continuing vote against Harris and his ilk. Vern and others, drop the Harris nonsense. You're the first ones to scream if Cons blame Martin and the Liberals for anything, and he's been out for less than two years, after thirteen years in power. Harris has been gone for more than six years. Find another boogey man.

    ---------------------------------------
    Bill, .... Harris' record in government absolutely stinks this province up from end to end. Don't tell me that was not a factor in yesterday's goings on. OK !!! People have plenty of reasons to hate Harris and for more elections than this one.
  107. J. Mac. from Canada writes: Vern McPherson from writes: I hear Tory on CFRB in Toronto this morning and the man simply does not know when to shut up....
    JUST LIKE YOU YA BIG FOGHORN !!!
  108. Chris Land from Sudbury, Canada writes: Andre..... look up the results at the Elections Ontario website. Voter turnout was more than 50%.
  109. Bat Man from T.O., Canada writes: Why didn't they come out in droves? Because most people don't care. This election was like picking which nut to get kicked. Either way it hurts.
  110. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: E A plenty of other countries use this system and it may well be worth the cost.

    I'm not concerned about any particular party (believe it or not) but I am concerned with the ability of the public to prevent or remove completely unpopular regimes from power. To me, having lived through some very dark years, that's the essential part of democracy that unsubstitutable, and sorely missing in Canada. MMP wouldn't have helped with that at all.
  111. Guillaume Afleck from Canada writes: F/A josquin 'Thank goodness a conservative occasionally gets to say what's really on his mind.'

    Plenty do, every day, to whom are you referring?
  112. Mark Orr from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow!! less then 50% of voters turned out, after 4 years of lies. So I can only conclude, Ontario deserves McGuinty and finds beling lies to perfectly acceptable.
    • Posted 11/10/07 at 8:44 AM EDT | Link to