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Protest letter's signatories warn against growing xenophobia in Quebec

INGRID PERITZ

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:01 PM EDT 02/11/07

Criticizes nasty tone of discussions on "reasonable accommodation" and Quebec identity ...Read the full article

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  1. Solo Vox from Montreal, Canada writes: The reality is that while there is a great amount of tolerance on the island on Montreal, the regions are the areas that complaining the most about immigration and reasonable accomodation. It doesn't help that some of the traditional instigators make it seem like a province wide problem.

    This is a good start by average quebecois to express a message of inclusion.
  2. Philosopher King from Ottawa, Canada writes: "The letter also takes aim at the Parti Québécois bill on Quebec citizenship, which would prohibit newcomers from seeking public office unless they showed an "appropriate knowledge" of French. It says the rule would be discriminatory."

    I think people would be surprised to learn that such thinking has already taken over the federal government. It is virtually impossible to get a job in Ottawa without extensive knowledge of french and english.

    2/3rds of Canadians can therefore not work for their government solely on the basis of not being bilingual. Seems silly to me that everyone from the janitor to computer programmers must all be bilingual when it's mostly irrelavent to their jobs.

    In the age of multi-culturalism this is a ridiculous notion. We should be accomodating the jobs based on need.
  3. Vern McPherson from writes: I submit far more than 2/3'dz of Canadans do not want to work for the government in any capacity.

    Canada has 2 official languages. I's hate to think of going back to times when citizens couldn't get service from their government in one of them.
  4. Pat Gesner from Canada writes: Was not Quebec Independence xenophobia about the English? Never protested then did they? Muslims obviously in less than 40 years have shown less respect than the English ever did in over 100 years. Just shows Muslim inability to adapt just like they did in France. The Muslims in France are the largest Muslim group in the western world. The riots, the burned cars, the violence and the disrespect of France have NOT been unnoticed by Quebeckers. Not xenophobia when you consider how badly Muslims in France have done a poor job in having the French regards them as French. That imam deported last week had his supporters yelling "Unjust" about his deportation. What was he deported about? Lying about his criminal charges over the assault of a fellow Muslim over unIslamic behavior in France. Wonderful example of Muslim uncritical approval of uncivilized, thuggish behaviour. (The guy and his supporters also wanted Muslim law enforced in Canada. He was also noted for rudely demanding no one drink in his presence (why not quietly leave and stand outside until the drinking is over -politely like smokers not inflicting their odd habits on others?)) If that Imam and his supporters want to live in a country that enforces 'Islam' by brute force, there are LOTS of Muslim countries to choose. Why demand that Quebec approve of such Muslim behaviour by claiming Quebec had no grounds for his deportation? Iran and Saudi Arabia, and even Malaysia are noted for their religious enforcers, why not immigrat to such countries were his zelousness will be highly praised. Ah well may be letter's signatories never met such muslims in Quebec. Poor Innocents. Obviously never touristed in some of Frances muslim enclaves to see how wonderfuly muslims are French in three generations or more.
  5. David Gibson from Hamilton, Canada writes: It is sad that those nasty little peasants in the Outback have been expressing Unacceptable Views. Fortunately, Montreal is there to scold them into Tolerance and Moderation.
  6. R M from Canada writes: Are we talking about "all immigrants" here or just Muslims? What kind of racist filth is that, Pat? If we must...the Muslim immigrants I know just want to integrate and participate in the economy ie. get a job and earn a living for their family. As for accommodating "their" needs, not sure what that means. If you're talking about how wearing a headscarf is oppressive to women in QC, how about all the strip clubs I've seen there (St. Catherines street is full of them). How about eliminating the wage gap between equal work for men and women? To date, I don't think we're accommodating 51% of our Canadian population at all!

    Folks like Pat: think before you type. Think about what we do in our own society before we seek to integrate others.
  7. William Moore from Toronto, Canada writes: What am I missing here ? If people are asked their opinion isn't it only reasonable to expect they will provide it regardless of wether their response is what we want to hear or not ? Isn't that the basis for the original undertaking ? We are indeed a nation of naval gazers paralized by our concern for propriety & inability to accept the results of open discussion. Let's give our collective heads a shake & get on with finishing the job & deal with whatever consequences arise as a result of the exercise.
  8. never neverland from Germany writes: One should have a look at Surrey, BC, where an English speaking person is a minority, asian gangs rule and now muslims are invading the lower mainland communities to stir up trouble.
    Quebec has every right to at least maintain some kind of identity, since bc has sold out to mostly unsavoury characters.
  9. k p from Montreal, Canada writes: RM, although I agree with you, I think you are sadly wasting your breath.

    I agree with what these students are trying to achieve, but the commission has been started, so it must be allowed to finish. I only regret that both Federal and Provincial politicians are fanning the flames (needless bills to ban veiled voting, complaining that Saku Koivu can not speak French when married to a Francophone - his wife is actually Finnish, etc). Atleast the commissioners have started to correct some of the idiots in situ rather than waiting for the final report.
  10. E. Biggs from Canada writes: Never, is talking about Newton and North Surrey. Down in South Surrey we have an every increasing number of Chinese who all stick together, cause no trouble but seldom integrate with anybody else. The numbers of immigrants are soo large that they can form their own communities, social groups including stores etc. We are a multicultural society (nowhere more than the lower mainland of BC) and while we all live in the same area we live separate and distinct. I think they are what you call ,unintended consequences, from Trudeau's vision. He was probably in one of his drug induced stupors at the time. At the present time all the gangs down here are quiet and are doing their thing (selling drugs) quietly, so nobody much cares. The odd gun fight and stabbing but no big deal until an inocent gets hit. If the people of Quebec outside of Montreal do not want immigrants then for the love of peace don't force it on them. I have lived there and as an Anglo Protestant to say the least it got interesting at times and you have to have a thick skin. Do not intentionally ferment social tensions. Let the Muslims come here to B. C. where they have to compete with the other immigrants and their gangs. Let the good times begin.
  11. Barrie Collins from Long Sault, ON, Canada writes: Xenophobia is not growing in Quebec. I lived there for over thirty years, and was always aware of the "national" prejudices against foreigners, anglophones, native peoples, different religions, people of a different skin colour, etc. Quebeckers were always telling you how tolerant and open-minded they were, but personal observation showed me that they were just as intolerant as the rest of Canada! We've got to practise what we preach, people.
  12. Kathleen Degelder from AberdeenUSA, Canada writes: I am confused. The news story which is closed for comment about Quebec encouraging more immigrants is the opposite for this story.
  13. XXX YYY from Zimbabwe writes: If Quebec is so xenophobe, retarded, filled with outback little peasants, as the self-proclaimed philosopher above said, intolerant, stupid, not to mention it costs too much, French is an irritant, etc. then why is Canada using every trick to try to keep it????

    Poor ROC. It wants Quebec so bad and yet, it viciously hates it. Like having a cancer and not being able to get rid of it.
  14. Fred B from Toronto, Canada writes: What's wrong with being Xenophobic? Are people suggesting that one culture (Montreal) is superior to another? We let in loads of people that are intolerant (Muslims included).
    Also, lots of people seem to misuse the word 'racism' in place of bias or prejudice. There are physical differences between the races but we shouldn't be prejudiced about it.
  15. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    "XXX YYY from Zimbabwe in a fit of hysteria, "(Quebec)... is like having a cancer and not being able to get rid of it."

    That's an odd thing for you to say, Mr. Kleinfeldter's Syndrome.

    What is it you Quebecois and your self-loathing?
  16. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: And R M from Canada writes: How about eliminating the wage gap between equal work for men and women? To date, I don't think we're accommodating 51% of our Canadian population at all!
    -----.
    What a bunch of feminist drivel.
    Since 1980, limitations on women's employment opportunities have been largely eradicated. So, to understand wage parity today, it is not appropriate to include the legacy effect since its causes no longer exists. When Statistics Canada compares wages for people aged 39 or younger, women's pay rises from 74 per cent to about 81 per cent.
    There is another factor: Statistics Canada includes employees' total remuneration. This method fails to consider that men work more billed overtime than women -- a lot more. When compensation for overtime is taken out, women's pay rises from 81 per cent to 89 per cent. Notice that women are not denied the opportunity to work overtime. Simply, they are more likely to work in a position that does not offer paid overtime and more likely to decline paid overtime when it is available. Ignoring the amount of billed hours each group works and merely comparing paychecks is the kind of deception that some feminists have honed into an art form.
    The remaining 11-per-cent gap in income would deserve remedy, but for another factor: among 35-year-old employees, males average about three-years of paid service more than females. This is not because women are being denied work: unemployment rates are actually higher for men. Rather, men accept billable overtime more readily and they take far less time off for parental responsibilities (which flow out of a woman's choice to have and keep children). Employees with more years of service are generally paid at a higher rate, and most people understand this fact and think it fair.
    -more >>
  17. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: concl.
    The impact of work experience on income reduces the gap to six per cent, but there is another factor. Reward follows risk, and men accept much more risk than women as shown by several key statistics including work-related fatalities (men account for 94 per cent of deaths). When properly considered, risk-taking (in its many forms) could explain all the remaining difference. And there are still more factors, but let us quit here lest I demonstrate that men are the ones being discriminated against -- can you imagine the letters? For my purposes, it suffices to say that, even within the feminist-leaning Statistics Canada, the unexplained portion of the income gap is generally accepted to be less than 10 per cent, and none of it has been attributed to sex discrimination.
  18. Leaps Frogg from Montreal, Canada writes: People, the media is responsible for all that sh!t. Before the day it started (the YWCA "incident") I never heard of "reasonable accomodation" & I thought everything was fine with freedom of speech and religion.
    But Radio-Canada reported the YWCA incident, then TVA prompted Leger Marketing for a poll about it and sh!t hit the fan and it's been pouring since.
  19. Orange Latern from Canada writes: Here's your reasonable accomodation - Muslim cleric in Toronto broadcasts his sermons over an outdoor PA system citing that its not any different than the bells of the Christian church.
    Nurses in Brampton, who could speak French and English, were denied second interviews because they didn't speak Punjabi (as cited in the editorial in the Brampton Guardian).
    Paul Martin, in buying a wreathe for his house, went 'deer in headlights' when jokingly asked whether it was a Christmas or Holiday wreathe, because he was scared of offending.
    Labour Party in Britain is toying with the idea of downgrading Christmas because its not fair that Christmas is a national holiday and other religious days aren't.

    Reasonable accomodation has a place - unfortunately the accomodation has gone from reasonable to ridiculous.
  20. Farm Boy from Big City, Canada writes: Mme Marois' recent statements and proposed bills have given a lot of false legitimacy to the ethnocentric, xenophobe segment of the population. She loves to endorse the thinking of these people and exploits their fears whenever she can - Quebec's answer to Jean-Marie LePen (?).

    In Quebec, just as in the ROC, the tendency is for those people who have never met an immigrant in their life to be the most xenophobe and the most easily influenced by demagogues. Faced with this kind of situation, politicians must provide leadership and not try to profit from the fears of uninformed people.
  21. fOREMOST AUTHOURITY from western, Canada writes: Accomodate what ? . . . Let’s see. Demands for segregated swimming pools, refusal to accept female emergency service workers, publicly funded prayer rooms in institutions, demands for curriculum changes. News item: Muslim taxi drivers at Minneapolis Airport refuse to take passengers carrying alcohol and also refuse to take Seeing Eye dogs. Austria: Demands that women teachers wear Muslim garb. Lines changed in a famous opera because of fear that they might offend Muslims. There are health concerns in that some Muslims are refusing to use hand cleaners in hospital settings because they might contain alcohol therefore endangering others with the risk of spreading infections like Mrsa. . . . Back to accommodation. This post (not mine) is just one example of how we have and over backwards to accommodate. It says it quite well. I decided to send my son to a catholic school because he doesn’t have to worry about offending anyone with a “Merry Christmas”, no ceremonial daggers around, pictures of Piglet won’t offend anyone neither will eating ham sandwiches. Crucifixes are allowed along with turbans. Christmas carols are hummed openly. Christmas trees are allowed along with Hanukkah candles if anyone desires to place one (which some have done). Ukrainian Christmas is celebrated as well as Chinese New Year. No one is offended with the teaching of the Crusades and/or the Holocaust and there aren’t groups demanding their removal from the curriculum. . And Valentine’s Day is acceptable and non threatening as well as Halloween. Christmas is called Christmas as is Easter. Crucifixes on Remembrance Day posters do not offend anyone and are not deemed bigoted or racist as with the PC crowd. No special “Publicly Funded” prayer rooms ( talk about specialized funding). . >more-
  22. fOREMOST AUTHOURITY from western, Canada writes: concluded..----- -------------

    There have also been instances of criminals being able to escape the law and the country under a Burka ( criminal escapes Britain disguised in Burka. Radical Muslim cleric tries to escape Red mosque disguised in Burka).

    Please ask anyone who works in a late night Convenience Store or bank setting if they don’t feel threatened by anyone that comes in with their face covered. It would be quite easy to hide a gun under that Burka.

    --
    By the way, nuns habits don t cover their faces.
  23. fOREMOST AUTHOURITY from western, Canada writes: Retry (hopefullythe spaces show this time) Accomodate what ? . . . Let’s see. Demands for segregated swimming pools, refusal to accept female emergency service workers, publicly funded prayer rooms in institutions, demands for curriculum changes. News item: Muslim taxi drivers at Minneapolis Airport refuse to take passengers carrying alcohol and also refuse to take Seeing Eye dogs. Austria: Demands that women teachers wear Muslim garb. Lines changed in a famous opera because of fear that they might offend Muslims. There are health concerns in that some Muslims are refusing to use hand cleaners in hospital settings because they might contain alcohol therefore endangering others with the risk of spreading infections like Mrsa. . . . Back to accommodation. This post (not mine) is just one example of how we have and over backwards to accommodate. It says it quite well. I decided to send my son to a catholic school because he doesn’t have to worry about offending anyone with a “Merry Christmas”, no ceremonial daggers around, pictures of Piglet won’t offend anyone neither will eating ham sandwiches. Crucifixes are allowed along with turbans. Christmas carols are hummed openly. Christmas trees are allowed along with Hanukkah candles if anyone desires to place one (which some have done). Ukrainian Christmas is celebrated as well as Chinese New Year. No one is offended with the teaching of the Crusades and/or the Holocaust and there aren’t groups demanding their removal from the curriculum. . And Valentine’s Day is acceptable and non threatening as well as Halloween. Christmas is called Christmas as is Easter. Crucifixes on Remembrance Day posters do not offend anyone and are not deemed bigoted or racist as with the PC crowd. No special “Publicly Funded” prayer rooms ( talk about specialized funding). . >more-
  24. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: Not my post-

    As for accommodation, the Muslim students at a Uof T campus are arguing for a SEPARATE cafeteria, even though the current cafeteria serves limited halal sandwiches. Their arguement....THE CURRENT CAFETERIA ALSO SERVES LIQUOR, WHICH IS IS PROHIBITED BY ISLAM.
    So the question comes down to:what level of accommodation will ultimately satisfy the very othordox believers of ANY faith who will alway find some item that conflicts with their cherished beliefs?
  25. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: Why do the posts not show spaces nor allow paragraphs at times?
  26. Leon Russell from Gatineau, Canada writes: Barrie Collins says "Quebeckers were always telling you how tolerant and open-minded they were, but personal observation showed me that they were just as intolerant as the rest of Canada! "

    You mean just as tolerant and intolerant. The main splits in tolerance and acceptation of differences is between the rural and the urban more than between regions. It's the same everywhere.
  27. Canadian With Stones from Toronto, Canada writes: It's nice to see it was so well attended.
  28. I 'm Canadian from Torontokazistan, Canada writes: At Western University, London, Ontario, first year art class was asked to change TRADITIONAL nude painting by something else. Thankfully, the dean of the faculty refused to give in. In fact, there 's a lot of effort try to change Canadian values and education systems to suite some religious followers. I admire Quebecers who have the guts to say a spade is a spade as opposed to political correctness/accomodation happening in ROC.
    Go Quebec go.
  29. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: Watching the two sides in this is like listening to two people having two different conversations.

    Reasonable accommodation has to include restricted and discriminating immigration; only those immigrants who will benefit us, and are a good fit culturally, racially, and linguistically should be admitted. If that means only Europeans, so be it.

    Tolerance and restricted immigration aren't mutually exclusive. While one side defends tolerance, the other side isn't advocating intolerance, just a more rational approach to immigration.

    There has to be understanding of what the pros and the cons are saying. These letter-signing professors aren't shedding light, they're adding to the rhetoric of one side.
  30. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: Who are the intollerent ones? The majority or the ones condtantly demanding one change after another in order to accomodate their fringe .
  31. FOREMOST AUTHOURITY from Western, Canada writes: Chris E.: Well put.
    --

    Bravo Quebec!
  32. David Gibson from Canada writes: {{{{{We are a multicultural society (nowhere more than the lower mainland of BC) and while we all live in the same area we live separate and distinct.}}}} No, what you are describing is a collection of ghettos, not a "multicultural society." "Society" denotes interaction. There is very little.

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