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Opposition leaders, activists arrested in Pakistan

ROBIN MCDOWELL

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 9:20 AM EST 04/11/07

Musharraf's government says elections could be delayed up to a year; Rice says U.S. will review aid to Pakistan ...Read the full article

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  1. Malcolm Prier from Canada writes: All together now, folks...

    Coup d'etat!!!!!!!!!!
  2. Rick McMahon from Calgary, United States writes:
    Wonder if they rounded up Bin Laden..... lol
  3. K McIntyre from Oshawa, Canada writes: Why couldn't he just rig the election like every other backwater dictator?

    This casts some serious doubt on his competence as a corrupt autocrat.
  4. Ken DeLuca from Arnprior, Canada writes: Another staunch U.S. ally helping to spread democracy.
  5. Nathan Cool from Vancouver, Canada writes: The US just never learns. They always think getting into bed with a dictator is a swell idea as long as they're on your side.

    Alas, this dictator exported nuclear technology to 'rogue' states all over the world, squashed democracy and shielded the Taliban.

    Great job GWB. Your judgment is sound as always.

    Let's also not forget, Harper was calling Musharraf a close ally over the past several years and never criticized him.
  6. vic w from Canada writes: So where's the outcry abut freedom and democracy now? I hope that it's obvious to most that the west seems to turn a blind eye to some tinpot dictators, and just emphasize those whos removal would be for political or economic gain. Cmon Harper, where are your speeches condemning Musharaff?
  7. Hank M from Hamilton, ON, Canada writes: Sound familiar? It was only months ago that Bush/Chaney gang pasted a law that said that US elections may be posponed in the event of a state of emergency. Now all they have to do is fabricate a crisis (and when has there not been a crisis while he has been in office?).
  8. Old blue from Canada writes: It didn't take long for the paid trolls to blame Bush and Harper.
  9. by polar from Canada writes: Oh gee! What now George?
  10. K McIntyre from Oshawa, Canada writes: @vic w: 'the west seems to turn a blind eye to some tinpot dictators, and just emphasize those whos removal would be for political or economic gain.'

    Economic gain. Security concerns. Human rights. Realpolitik. These are all motivators in every nation's foreign policy. To assume a policy is motivated by only a subset of these is simplistic, and usually a symptom of right or left wing confirmation bias.
  11. Anthony B from Sydney, NS, Canada writes: On the eve of a general election, Musharraf, suspends the constitution. And we're supposed to be surprised? Isn't that what military dictator's do? It's all a game, folks; our politicians pretend all our 'allies' are democracies and they pretend to be our allies.

    Meanwhile, Peter MacKay says 'the actions in Pakistan create instability in the region.'

    Yeah right! Like everything was sooo stable before this happened. To use your own words, Peter, 'time to go back to your knitting.'
  12. Tim Bee from Canada writes: This is not surprising at all. He was stalling for time. Then he faked an assassination attempt so he could say he had to do this.
  13. The Neocynic from Botswana writes: Who is running US foreign policy, Roseanne Roseannadanna?

    Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said the emergency declaration 'does not impact our military support' of the Muslim nation or its efforts in the war on terror.
    http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIE0IUn4WIiaMBpjG8SI_6H5RXzgD8SMRNNG0

    A day earlier, the senior American military commander in the Middle East, Admiral William J. Fallon, told General Musharraf and his top generals in a meeting here that declaring emergency rule would jeopardize the extensive American financial support for the Pakistani military.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/03/world/asia/04pakistan.html?ref=world

    After all that talk about freedom'n'democracy, and the millions displaced, the hundreds of thousands killed, and the billions wasted, I can hear it now:

    '....never mind.'
  14. Joyce Smith from Vancouvah, Canada writes: Musharraf ranks right up there with the likes of Mugabe and the Burma junta. What incredible ego! Destroying an entire country just because he can't accept public or judicial opinion that he should go. Pathetic. Pakistan has a history of doing away with its leaders cruelly. He should get out of town now before he's assassinated or left to rot in jail.
  15. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Another reason for NATO to insist that Afghanistan's poppy crops be eradicated. Too many politicians and radicals are living off of the drug trade.
  16. A Better Canada from No-Quebec, Canada writes: Naive Peter is waking up.....one year too late. Instead of following the short-sighted American approach, he should have concentrated on Pakistan, as we have been mentioning on numerous comments. Pakistan has been, is and will be the problem....Not Iran. How smart are you Poodle 2, now, with the Bush doctrine? Shame on Canada for not being more clairvoyant. Where are the gullible naive Canadians?
  17. Steve Tatone from Ottawa, Canada writes: That Harper would go after China and not these guys is beyond me. Remember what triggered the Iranian revolution? The Shah show up at the States' door begging for help, the States give it, then Iran goes up like a Roman candle! When THIS one goes down, there'll be NUKES AND AN AYATOLLAH at the end of it. But we're already busy fighting people in Afghanistan whose ability to wage war overseas clearly no longer functions, and busy fighting in Iraq whose overseas warmaking abilities were NEVER apparent. A Radical Pakistani Islamia could target the following friendly neighbours: India, Afghanistan, Isreal, Iraq, and maybe even Russia or Europe. The new regime will actively give shelter to Taliban fighters turning Afghanistan into the 21st Century 'Indo-china/Vietnam', AND give aid around the world to militant radicals. The ISO (Pakistani Intelligence) and all of its attached U.S. donar money would be turned against Western targets for political purposes. Afghanistan being then unwinable, would sooner or later fall to radical militias lining up Afghanistans place in the Islamic caliphate. With Iraq withdrawal coming soon, Shia radicalism would overtake Iraq as the next largest organisation to the government, and its spokespeople most visible. Then, we'll be facing a chain of Religious minded governments from the Persian Gulf right up to the Chinese border. The West made a big mistake climbing into bed with this guy, and I hope we don't, but I think we'll be regretting it real soon.
  18. C L from Canada writes: Not to sure what all the fuss is about on these boards but Canada is the only Western government to come out and blatantly condemn the actions of Musharaf.. the other western powers have merely stated their disappointment and concern of whats happening in Pakistan

    im very impressed with what our nation is doing on the international stage and this proves it further.. had the liberals been at power, they'd probably take the same rhetorical sit on the fence stance that the US and the UK are currently doing
  19. T M from Canada writes: Harper is probably taking notes.
  20. The Neocynic from Botswana writes: ..and Hillier is going green with envy.
  21. M. Perry from Canada writes:
    Musharraf is playing a dangerous game and he is fooling no-one.
  22. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Dubya has his pants in a knot over the POSSIBILITY that Iran, a Muslim dictatorship, MIGHT have 'NUKULAR' capability.

    Pakistan IS a Muslim dictatorship that DOES have nukes.

    Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden used to be US allies too.
  23. Jeff Pritchard from Canada writes: It's the same old sickening story: The U.S. finds itself backing a military dictator with minimal popular support, simply because it finds the situation strategically preferable to the unpredictability that change would impart.

    In ten or twenty years time will they be facing off against yet another in a long list of former 'friends' whom they initially propped up with money, expertise, and arms?
  24. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Someone, on another thread yesterday, made a correct observation to the effect that 'The world is almost never faced with good/bad options, rather the alternatives are generally between abysmal & REALLY abysmal'.

    Choices made, at the time they are made, might be the most viable AT THAT MOMENT, but 10 minutes later conditions will undoubtedly change, often drastically; out of the approximately 200 'nations' worldwide we can 'rely' on perhaps a dozen, each of them also having their own agendas/priorities which supercede ours.

    The planet is, and always has been, a minefield, (even before mines were invented); people ARE out to get you, even if you're not paranoid, and hindsight agonizing about previous decisions isn't beneficial in a volatile environment.

    Involvement isn't safe. Isolationism isn't safe. Just 'being' isn't safe.

    Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda.
  25. Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Dr. Demento, actually Musharraf is a secular leader. If things were allowed to proceed democratically, it would probably turn out similar to Palestine....where Hamas won the election. All these stupid western politicians keep whining about democracy, when what they actually mean is - We was a democratically elected leader that is picked by US!! What a joke. McKay and Rice should shaddap and thank god Musharraf has the balls to run that country that is on the brink of being a failed state.
  26. Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Where are all the dyed-in-the-polyester right-wingers today? I don't hear their usual call to arms. The same pro-Bush crowd that usually foams at the mouth every time that Venezuela's democratically elected president does something of which they don't approve seems to be missing in action today. Cat got your tongue? I guess Musharraf, a bona fide dictator, isn't a threat to democracy given his 'usefulness' to the U.S. global agenda.
  27. The Neocynic from Botswana writes: Where are all the rightwing neocon blood-slurpers, you ask?

    Every time reality exposes them for the fools they are, they become afflicted with ye olde Roseanne Roseannadanna complex....

    Freedom?? Democracy??

    '....never mind.'
  28. Karin Pasnak from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Could this be a dress rehearsal for the US?
  29. Rick McMahon from Calgary, United States writes:
    I'm sure Putin and Hu are enjoying every moment of this.
  30. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:
    Apologies to all Gilda Radner fans. I mixed up her characters. The 'never mind' schtick was by Gilda's 'Emily Litella', a crazy old bag.
  31. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes 'Dr. Demento, actually Musharraf is a secular leader'

    So were Saddam Hussein, Augusto Pinochet and the Shah of Iran.
  32. Jawa Force from Canada writes: The Neocynic from Botswana writes: ..and Hillier is going green with envy.

    -----

    That is just a plain idiotic statement, and is beneath contempt.

    Now, what I have NOT heard on any of the G & M boards is how this is likely or not likely to impact Canadian troops across the border. IF Mush takes the opportunity to take the hammer to the Islamists, will they stay and fight in Pakistan or run across the border into the arms of NATO forces? While our government should publicly condemn this, logic tells me that the goings on in Pakistan will reduce the influx of Islamists into Afghanistan which would bring a smile to our local commanders.
  33. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes:

    conveniently now the ruling will be in the despot's favour... no surprises here.

    and of course the electioneering balloting will be 'democratic' and 'fair' and so on and so forth.

    how easily perverted are the foundations of democracy.

    and they're our ally????
  34. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: The beauty of this, if the general is overthrown, Pakistan will turn into an extreme Islamic state with it's typical ultra violence. Blame Bush et al all you want lefties, the Middle East is the world's cesspool.
  35. Dwight Fulmore from Courtenay, Canada writes: I would like to hear more comments from the Pakistani community.
    I lived in Pakistan for 8 1/2 years, my observation of democracy in a country that has had very little workable democracy in it's history, is that it doesn't always work well, especially in a country with such deep divisions and unbridled passions. I am not saying that Musharraf did a good thing, don't get me wrong, but I do feel he did what he did for good reasons not bad. Despite all the bad said about him, the country had enjoyed relative law & order for a number of years now since he took power. Until the exiled PMs stirred the pot things were relatively calm, but now how many died in the suicide bomb in Karachi? I believe Bhutto to also have a good heart for her country, but you need to have a firm enough hand to maintain order in a country like that, or the factions and divisions, like radical Islamists seem to work their agenda to the top. Islamic law replacing British law at the highest level was brought to bear in Pakistan through a duly elected governmet under Nawaz Sharif. Take your pick, who would you sooner holding the nukes?
  36. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Jawa Force:-- Just last evening, reports on the BBC suggested that the Brits are having increasing difficulties in Helmand province as the Pakistanis are, themselves, having increasing difficulties in the restive tribal areas (Wajiristan, etc.) of Pakistan. The same thing might be happening in Kandahar, but we'd never hear about it.
  37. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:
    dick brown: 'The beauty of this, if the general is overthrown, Pakistan will turn into an extreme Islamic state with it's typical ultra violence.'

    Another scare-mongering lie from the neocon blood-slurpers. If real democracy is restored, Bhutto and the PPP would win hands down. As for 'typical ultra-violence', who is the chief perpetrator of 'ultra-violence' in the world today: The Great American Lardmass, pal. Read a newspaper, zombie.
  38. k st-pierre from toronto, Canada writes: Steve Tatone- I agree with your predictions. Not a very hopeful position the west is in do to our shortsightedness and greed. One correction- Pakistani intelligence is called the ISI (Inter-Service Intelligence), not ISO. Probably just a typing error. Where is MJ, Luftwaffe, Tyler W. A.k.a. Savard et all to wax poetically about how this is another positive virtue of the Bush Junta and how it represents democracy and is helping to stabilize the region? I'm surprised that even though they are eating crow they STILL can't talk out both sides of their mouth-or at least try to. It has never stopped them before!!:)
  39. Allan Eizinas from Simcoe, Canada writes: .
    There is profit in chaos!

    The Taliban understand this and with other Islamic fundamentalists will take the opportunity to gain more power.

    But do not fear - we have Canadian troops in Afghanistan on the border of this nuclear Pakistan. When George Bush tells Harper to go, our troops as lead by General (kill those scumbags and murderers) Hillier, will march into Pakistan to 'fight the fight'.

    Good news - Canadian troops out of Afghanistan in 2009.

    Bad news - Canadian troops into Pakistan in 2008.
  40. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: ..And the rest of the world wonders why Osama Bin Laden is still at large terrorizing the world from his base somewhere in Pakistan. With a jerk like Musharraf ruling Pakistan, is it any wonder? In fact, it's highly likely that he is cooperating with Bin Laden.
  41. Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Dr. Demento, what is you point, the US installed all those leaders. Only in the case of Chile, has there been a somewhat successful transition. Are you saying the Iranian revolution was better then the Shah, when thousands of young Iranians were executed and tortured by the Revolutionary Guards? Are you saying Iraq is better off in it's current state of civil war then under Saddam? If it's so wonderful, why have hundreds of thousands of Iraqis fled their own country? All this brought to you by outsiders who have NO CLUE.
  42. Blair Langmuir from Realityville, Canada writes: If things go bad in Pakistan, how is Canada supposed to supply its troops in Afghanistan? Or to withdraw them? The road out goes through Pakistan. There are no ports in Khandahar, and flying them all out could be a problem if there isn't room on USAF & RAF flights out. We don't have the aircraft to rescue our own.
  43. Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Allan, really, do you think Canada has even close to the required military power to take on Pakistan? That is a laughable proposition, even if Canada reinstitued the draft, we could not raise an army large enough to fight Pakistan. They may be a bit chaotic, but Pakistan is a populous and very powerful nation. Even the US does not have the power or the guts to attack the border regions.
  44. Karen Burton from Regina, Canada writes: Makes you wonder about 'democracy' in Afghanistan. Good catch phrase for political agendas.
  45. Solo Vox from Montreal, Canada writes: Pakistan should be allowed to divide into the pre-assembled bits it was put together as. At least then we'd all know the players we are dealing with. Musharraf says he controls the military but alot of the military is pro-taliban and support al quaeda.

    Take all the Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan conflicts together and they have nowhere near the explosive potential of upheaval in Pakistan.

    What's happening cannot be solved by a return of Bhutto. The country has to be allowed to split. It's bad news for democracy in Pakistan, it's horrible news for Karzai trying to build Afghanistan, and it's potentially the ugliest possible news for all NATO troops in Afghanistan.

    Less finger pointing people. Understand root causes and suggest workable solutions.
  46. Paul Collins from Toronto, Canada writes: I like some of the opinions in this thread. The US props up a dictator, gives him money, support, weapons, all to secure America's business interests. Remember the Taliban came from Pakistan and then the US sends it's own troops to fight this enemy. No wonder Europe don't take the US serious anymore. No wonder they are avoiding this conflict. They don't want to deplete their army in a war created by the US State Department. Now imagine the US depleting it's military personall in such a conflict. Russia and China are both standing by, waiting patiently. If you rise up in the world of politics, you better have a good sense of humor because you will be surrounded by psychopaths. What is happening in Pakistan is the dress rehearsal for the US. The politicians of today are tomorrow's war criminals.
  47. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Neocynic: Bhutto and the PPP might well win an election hands down, but where would that leave them, decision & directionwise, in a largely illiterate & under/unemployed tribal country with a median age of 21 and inculcated with Islam?
  48. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: Wow this guy is going to make himself Leader for Life under the guise of fighting islamic extremism. Good pick for an Ally, USA
  49. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Even the US does not have the power or the guts to attack the border regions.
    --------------------------------------------------

    ...which could make GWB's post 911 choice of Pakistan as an 'Ally against terror' seem shrewd if it causes implosion.
  50. Bill Knowles from Halifax, Canada writes: Another blow to the Bush/Harper war on terror.
  51. Leaps Frogg from Montreal, Canada writes: That country has a couple o' hundred nukes in their arsenal, with an industry to make more. I see no reason to make silly jokes about what's going on there... :-(
  52. kd john from toronto, Canada writes: humm america stop india about 20 years back from destroying pakistan..

    look what happened
  53. Jawa Force from Canada writes: Actually, Musharraf just arrested Gul, the former Taliban-aligned head of the ISI. That is quite significant.

    ------

    Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Even the US does not have the power or the guts to attack the border regions.

    ------

    Special forces and drone raids have been conducted in those regions for a while now, but you would have to read milbloggers to know that.
  54. biggar thomas from Guelph, Canada writes: It is really quite amazing that this man's orders are actually carried out by anyone. He is so clearly out for himself and not his country or its people. What he is doing will only strengthen the religious loonies. It is also amazing that perhaps the most ethically and religiously complex country on earth sits in peace, self-sufficiency and pride right next door to this silly dictator.
  55. Philip Ramcharan from Canada writes: The British are the root of the problem. They let Pakistan split from India and form a separate country. The old divide and conquer policy...
  56. Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes:

    This is good news for Pakistan.

    .
  57. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Mark Orr from toronto; I was just stating facts. The brutal US puppet dictator,the Shah of Iran, was responsible for the imprisonment and deaths of tens of thousands of Iranians, many who were seeking a return to democracy, but it was not the Revolutionary Guards who did the dirty work. It was SAVAK which was set up with assistance from the CIA.
  58. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Clive Gingell:

    'Bhutto and the PPP might well win an election hands down, but where would that leave them, decision & directionwise, in a largely illiterate & under/unemployed tribal country with a median age of 21 and inculcated with Islam?'

    It would leave the keys to The Bomb in the hands of a relatively moderate Muslim, Bhutto, whose greed and hedonism can be safely relied upon to keep it locked up.

    As for the Great Unwashed of Pakistan, to be frank, nobody gives a flying f**k about them until they start suicide bombing. Only then, as everywhere else in the world, only when the poor turn violent and realize the power of their numbers will real democracy and social justice ever be seriously contemplated. It is a failure by elites to take these two ideas seriously that inevitably leads to suicide bombers. As one wag put it, 'War is the terrorism of the rich, terrorism is the war of the poor.'
  59. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Information on SAVAK:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAVAK
  60. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Neo: Osama is 'poor'?
  61. Jawa Force from Canada writes: The Neocynic from Botswana writes: Only then, as everywhere else in the world, only when the poor turn violent and realize the power of their numbers will real democracy and social justice ever be seriously contemplated.

    -----

    Yes, how true. Taliban and al Qaeda are at the forefront of social acitivsm for poor people. They are like the NDP in Pakistan. What are you smoking in Botswana?
  62. Jawa Force from Canada writes: Former head of Pakistani intelligence arrested:

    http://www.kashmirwatch.com/showexclusives.php?subaction=showfull&id=1194182193&archive=&start_from=&ucat=15&var1news=value1news
  63. Jawa Force from Canada writes: Looks like Bhutto sent the letter requesting his arrest to Musharraf. Interesting.
  64. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Clive Gingell:

    Osama is not poor, but it is neither beneath him nor George Bush to psychologically exploit their discontent for their own ends.

    The reason why extremist religious fundamentalism is enjoying a renaissance, either of the Islamic or Christian strain, is that wherever there is great suffering, there is great religion. Prayer in the face of pain is a comfort when there is absolutely nothing else to be done, but for suicide, or for those with initiative, suicide bombing.

    Alas, religion is a disease of the intellect, as prayer is a disease of the will.
  65. Earth is the insane asylum for the universe from Canada writes: Or Maybe this is true.After all she has a credibility problem in relation to past corruption.Why would now be any different.

    ISLAMABAD: Benazir Bhutto was taken into confidence regarding imposition of 'emergency plus' in the country and was asked to leave the country as per already finalised deal with General Musharraf, a senior Pakistan People's Party (PPP) leader based in Islamabad confided to The News on Saturday night.

    'The option of imposing emergency and leaving the country on the orders of presidential camp was the agreed upon conditions in the deal between Benazir and Musharraf,' the PPP leader said adding, 'We are ashamed of the role played by Benazir and some other PPP leaders and will take appropriate action and measures to sustain the anti-dictatorship image of the party.'
  66. David Blott from Moncton, NB, Canada writes:

    'We just have to review the situation. But I would be very surprised if anyone wants the President to set aside or ignore the responsibility to national security that can come through such co-operation,' she said.'

    So in translation what Condi is trying to say is that we have painted ourselves into a corner by supporting another dictator in order to promote democracy, and right now I am waiting for Dick Cheney to tell us what we are going to do.
  67. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Neo: With religion, especially with Islam, the precepts of the religion are responsible for the 'suffering', and, again especially with Islam, the religion is responsible for the lack of advancement.
  68. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Alert! Alert!

    Whenever you hear the word 'national security' pass the lips of any Bush Mafiosi, it is cover for something grossly illegal, immoral, or unethical, or all three. Go figure.
  69. Jawa Force from Canada writes: The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Clive Gingell:

    Osama is not poor, but it is neither beneath him nor George Bush to psychologically exploit their discontent for their own ends.

    The reason why extremist religious fundamentalism is enjoying a renaissance, either of the Islamic or Christian strain, is that wherever there is great suffering, there is great religion.

    -----

    Your argument is lame. Poor Brazilian Catholics don't resort to suicide bombings. Or poor Chinese. Or poor Hindu Indians. Further, your equating Christianity and Islamism is also lame. There have been 9912 terrorist attacks SINCE 911 perpetrated by Muslims. I don't count any committed by radical Chrisitans. Now, since the terrorist idealogy spawns from affluent Saudi Arabia, your arguement regarding economics is also lame. Political repression? Why, I don't recall transnational suicide movements in Christian countries. If you are looking for a root cause, start by reading the Koran instead of looking through the prism of Marxist class conflict for your answer.
  70. Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: This could be a dress rehearsal for Russia. And remember that if one of Pakistan''s more extreme Generals/Warlords wants to consolidate their position in a power vacuum that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.
  71. Jawa Force from Canada writes: Eric Kirkpatrick from Vancouver, B.C., Canada writes: This could be a dress rehearsal for Russia. And remember that if one of Pakistan''s more extreme Generals/Warlords wants to consolidate their position in a power vacuum that Pakistan has nuclear weapons.

    -----

    Not to downgrade the threat of Russian power consolidation, but the scenarios are wholly different. Musharraf, for all his flaws, is an awful option; the worst option is Taliban types/radical Islamists getting the nuclear keys. (We won't have to worry about a radical Islamist takeover of Russia for about 80-90 years (for those who are familiar with Russian demographic trends).)
  72. HS . from Toronto, Canada writes: Musharaf handled it terribly wrong this time around and has alienated even his closest supporters. Muzzling the media and judiciarcy instead of crushing the militancy makes it obvious that the military can't deal with the problem in the tribal agencies. The morale is falling and according to some the soldiers just don't want to fight these guys. Musharaf has become part of the problem and the baggage he brings to the table makes him vulnerable. He has put himself on the line just to protect his 8 year of progress (if you can call it that). I liked him personally but now I am not so sure. When a person thinks he is indespensible it says a lot about his character, and presently I find him morally defunct. hoping against hope now
  73. k st-pierre from toronto, Canada writes: Jawa Force- Again, u need education. A vast majority of Saudio Arabia is dirt poor. Just because the govt is rich does not mean the people are. Economic disparity is probably the main underlying factor for terrorism. Next to westerners who exploit it for their own economic and geo-strategic benefit that is. If these people had something to live for, something to lose, they would not be suicide bombers.>>>>>>>>>

    David Blott- Exactly!! Good post. The war on terror should be renamed the War on Error!!:)
  74. Anthony B from Sydney, NS, Canada writes: Philip Ramcharan from Canada writes: "The British are the root of the problem. They let Pakistan split from India and form a separate country. The old divide and conquer policy..."

    More like: grant independence, separate, and hope for peace. The Moslems in what is now the Islamic Republic of Pakistan were never going to settle for remaining part of India.
  75. Jawa Force from Canada writes: k st-pierre from toronto, Canada writes: Jawa Force- Again, u need education. A vast majority of Saudio Arabia is dirt poor. Just because the govt is rich does not mean the people are. Economic disparity is probably the main underlying factor for terrorism.

    -----

    Yes, that is why 800 million poor Hindus and 800 million poor Chinese and 800 million poor non-Muslim Africans regularly resort to terrorism to free them from the shackles of poverty. Your argument is utterly incapable of withstanding scrutiny. That is why most of my Scottish family tree, at one time mired in poverty, strapped on suicide belts.
  76. Jawa Force from Canada writes: You (Jawa Force, from Canada) wrote: k st-pierre from toronto, Canada writes: Jawa Force- Again, u need education. A vast majority of Saudio Arabia is dirt poor. Just because the govt is rich does not mean the people are. Economic disparity is probably the main underlying factor for terrorism.

    ------

    I guess I have to wonder how all those upset poor Saudi people are spending BILLIONS of dollars seeding the West with wahabi mosques. Money means nothing to a committed Muslim, and you should know that. Read the Koran; heaven on earth hinges on the expansion of the ummah.
  77. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Jawa Force:

    Don't even you get bored with those hackneyed talking points that dissolve into pure silliness upon the application of a little history?

    Because you and your neocon propagandists have been made cross-eyed by 9/11, your idea of "history" does not extend beyond that September for politically convenient reasons.

    As for equating Muslim vs Christian acts of terror, do a little research and google the religous wars of the 16th century, the Crusades, the Inquisition, for greater enlightenment and a broadening of your narrow viewpoint. You'll find that the body count for Christian terror is a mountain in comparision to the molehill created by Muslim terrorists.

    I can't help you if you think "terrorist idealogy", whatever that is, only originated in modern day Saudi Arabia. Its pathetic. Get help, or better yet, get an education.

    As for your laughable idea that there is no terrorism in Brazil or China, go forth and google, my son, and where once you were blind, you will see.
  78. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: This whole story (that of South Asia, the Middle East, the world) is a direct consequence of European and American colonialization. I do believe most of Pakistan once came under the rule of the British Empire.

    To try to turn this story on its head and accuse Islamists of trying to perpetrate terrible things on the world is a deliberately wrong misinterpretation.

    We have technological supremacy, that is for sure, but I don't know what we have given of ourselves to pay for that supremacy. I have a few ideas . . .
  79. Wayne Walker from Canada writes: Nathan Cool and many others take such a simple naive position. They always want to blame the US for supporting an existing government which later becomes an enemy. As another poster said, the choice is often between abysmal and really really absymal. The reality is that we have to co-exist with many governments which make us uncomfortable. Sometimes your "allies" are simply enemies of your enemies. Remember when Russia fought the Germans? Maintaining stability is a lot more complex than we would like to believe. The same people who say we should have left Sadam alone seem to think we should do something to support democracy in Pakistan. They also heap all of the blame on the US when all of the other major powers have taken a hand in supporting or befriending the same people. Does anyone think that Russia and China do not take an interest in South America? Do you think they are not trying to make friends and extend their influence in the mid-east? Who has supported Iraq in the recent past and who supports Iran and Syria now? Why were Germany and France helping Saddam get around UN imposed sanctions? We can debate colonialism and imperialism and economic self interest and religion gone amok but that will include Europe, Britain, Russia and China as well as the US. At this time Harper has taken a harder stance on Musharraf than other Western nations. That may be a mistake if Musharraf has done this because he now recognizes extremists as his greatest internal enemy. He may now become a real ally against extremists such as al Queda and the Taliban.
  80. J L from Thunder Bay, Canada writes: This is outrageous and affront to democracy.So What are we are we going to do about it? Will the UN intervene? Not likely you say.I agree based on their past record,A litany of failing to act, resolutions galore Threatening a military response and as in the case of Iraq doing NOTHING.Africa another example of the UN's many failures to intervene on behalf of millions of Africans in need of assistance. both military and humanitarian relief,The middle east is a time bomb ready to explode and unless some thing is done and done soon,there will be additional loss of life and anarcy,in countries such as Pakistan,Iran,Irac,and other countries in the region,which are under attack from organizations such as terrorists groups and extremist Muslim organizations that are hell bend on taking over these countries by violent means.Rather than by participating in a open democratic process.When is the UN finally going to act? Are they going to wait until the Americans decide enough is enough and unilaterly take the action.that the UN should be undertaking, as was,and is the case in Iraq?
  81. Jawa Force from Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: This whole story (that of South Asia, the Middle East, the world) is a direct consequence of European and American colonialization. I do believe most of Pakistan once came under the rule of the British Empire.

    -------

    Actually, Pakistan was at one time Hindu and Buddhist. It fell victim to Muslim conquest and imperialism before the Brits entered the scene. Were it not for the Muslim invaders, India would today be one country with Pakistan as a freindly state within its borders.
  82. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Why are so many conservatives criticizing Saudi Arabia ? Don't they know that S.A. is a beacon of democracy . . . too ? Time for them to watch more Faux News, to get their pap "straight" . . . yup yup.
  83. The Neocynic from Botswana writes: "the Pentagon said the emergency declaration by Musharraf did not impact the US military support of Pakistan or its efforts in the war on terror."

    Is not the issue of "military support" a political decision to be made by the civilian government? Really, practically, does the military in Pakistan enjo greater or less influence today in the governance of Pakistan than does the Pentagon is the US?

    I fail to see any significant difference but for the formalities.
  84. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from Canada writes: A good lesson in what happens when you overthrow a constitutional monarchy and replace it with a republic.

    Perpetual warfare - and a rise of nationalism.
  85. Bob McDonald from Canada writes: Are there any Islamic states running healthy, stable democracies? Maybe their religion and the shared power structures in democracies are just not compatible.
  86. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: Actually, Jawa, there would've been no cause for a Pakistan to even exist had it not been for the Muslim invasions.
  87. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Jawa Force: I think we have met before! Anyway, are you saying that the Mughal Empire is thriving today? How far back in history do you want to go? Don't go too far, 'cause you'll find less and less evidence of Islamic 'unity' and 'imperialism.' Or rather, let's go way back and give all of modern-day Turkey back to the Iranians. And don't address the issue of the modern-day colonizers (that would be us).
  88. D Peters from Out West, Canada writes: In his best Rodney King voice....."Can't we all just get along...?"
  89. Jawa Force from Canada writes: The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Jawa Force:

    Don't even you get bored with those hackneyed talking points that dissolve into pure silliness upon the application of a little history?

    Because you and your neocon propagandists have been made cross-eyed by 9/11, your idea of "history" does not extend beyond that September for politically convenient reasons.

    As for equating Muslim vs Christian acts of terror, do a little research and google the religous wars of the 16th century, the Crusades, the Inquisition, for greater enlightenment and a broadening of your narrow viewpoint. You'll find that the body count for Christian terror is a mountain in comparision to the molehill created by Muslim terrorists.

    ------

    Maybe you should try and read a bit about the heroes of Western civilization like France's Charles Martel (neo-con)or King of Poland John III Sobieski (neo-con) who were the first to resist the Islamization of Europe itself. Perhaps you should learn how Mecca itself became such a homogenous city and how the Crusades never threatened Mecca, but only sought to reclaim lands stolen by the wahabis. For starters, I recommend reading the book Islamic Imperialism by Efraim Karsh. An excellent history.
  90. Jawa Force from Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Jawa Force: I think we have met before! Anyway, are you saying that the Mughal Empire is thriving today? How far back in history do you want to go? Don't go too far, 'cause you'll find less and less evidence of Islamic 'unity' and 'imperialism.' Or rather, let's go way back and give all of modern-day Turkey back to the Iranians. And don't address the issue of the modern-day colonizers (that would be us).

    -----

    The irony lost on many is that Europe is being colonized via mass immigration as it makes the painful transition from a post-Christian society to an Islamic society. We aren't the only "colonizers" on the block.
  91. David Blott from Moncton, NB, Canada writes:

    Wayne Walker from Canada writes: "As another poster said, the choice is often between abysmal and really really absymal. The reality is that we have to co-exist with many governments which make us uncomfortable. Sometimes your "allies" are simply enemies of your enemies."

    Wayne: I don't think anybody would disagree that has been the policy, the question is whether it is a good one. Let's take a look at just a few recent examples. The US supported Saddam Hussein as he was the enemy of the Ayatollahs in Iran. Israel supported Hamas as it was the enemy of Fatah. The US and Saudis both supported the al-Qaeda linked Fatah al-Islam as it was the enemy of Hezbollah. Can any of these be considered even remotely successful policy choices?

    As for Musharraf, he has long played footsie with the Taliban and other fundamentalists in his country, and is beholden to both the ISI and other military leaders with strong ties to both groups. It is unclear whether he will really take an aggressive stance against the insurgents or whether he is really interested in roping them in enough to suit his own purposes.
  92. Jawa Force from Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Or rather, let's go way back and give all of modern-day Turkey back to the Iranians.

    ----

    Was that before or after they were forced to convert to Islam and abandon their own unique religion (Zorastarianism) to the swords of Islam? LOL
  93. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: What's happening in Pakistan:
    http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2007/11/martial-law-by-another-name-in-pakistan.php

    The Supreme Court has ruled that the order for a "state of emergency" (= martial law) is unconstitutional . . . hence the dictator's order to surround the SC building with troops.

    Is Faux News still contending that Pakistan is a "beacon of democracy" ? Just asking . . . do any of the right-wing morons who post here know the answer to that one ?
  94. Jawa Force from Canada writes: David Blott from Moncton, NB, Canada writes: As for Musharraf, he has long played footsie with the Taliban and other fundamentalists in his country, and is beholden to both the ISI and other military leaders with strong ties to both groups.

    -----

    Gul was arrested over 12 hours ago.
  95. Jawa Force from Canada writes: Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Is Faux News still contending that Pakistan is a "beacon of democracy" ? Just asking . . . do any of the right-wing morons who post here know the answer to that one ?

    -----

    For someone supposedly supporting freedom of the press, you sure do spend a lot of time demonizing the one network that expresses views different than yours. Interesting.
  96. The Neocynic from Botswana writes:

    Jawa:

    Poland John III Sobieski was a neocon?? LOL!

    I am embarassed being caught debating with the village idiot! LOL!

    You are truly a waste of pixels.

    PS

    Jawa! The Cow is loose! The Cow!! It's loose! The Cow is loooose!
  97. Bruce Rideout from Victoria, Canada writes: Its a shame the guy being arrested in the photo does not have in his posession the Bruce Rideout MEGATASER 5500. 5.5 million kv of cop stopping power. Stopping tyranny DEAD in its tracks. BZZZZT
  98. Clive Gingell from Ottawa, Canada writes: David Blott: One plays the hand one is deal