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At the intersection of immigrant and hippie

PETER SCOWEN

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 5:40 PM EST 15/11/07

Kensington Market charms Richard Florida ...Read the full article

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  1. Beth Bedard from Canada writes: Does Richard Florida realize he is no longer in the U.S.? Toronto is not a suburb of New York, it is a different country with a different culture. Comparing it to US shopping malls and US merchants is just plain ignorance and Americentric. Why does the Globe and Mail publish and American perspective disguised as a Canadian column?
  2. doug rogers from Canada writes: Wow, he's an American, so he must be wrong. How Canadian of you.

    The life of cities knows no nationality.
  3. Chris Lalonde from Singapore writes: Beth Bedard from Canada ... Do we really have to explain the following to you?.... Canada is part of North America like say the Netherlands part of Europe. As European nations share common characteristics amoongst themselves so do the U.S. & Canada. Yes, Canada and the U.S. are different but we have more similarities (developed economies in North America that evolved from eing British with diverse people). It's appropriate to compare NYC with Toronto.
  4. John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: American malls and Canadian malls are exactly the same, in every single detail.
  5. Jo Geoghegan from Heart's Delight, Canada writes: There is nothing unique about the Kensington market. A good place to buy fresh food. Most cities have them. Obviously Richard Florida ( whoever HE is) has a good PR hack who is adept at promoting a new come from away wag giving us this tired old nonsense in new puff pieces about 'unique' Toronto. Get a life. Is he the replacement for dear old Jane who was a great girl but full of this same old wonderful Toronto guff?
    And as for Toronto and New York. Alike as they both are given their climate, geographical proximity and architectural similarity.
    DBC ( dull, boring, Canadian) Toronto is certainly no New York. No buzz.
    Capice?
  6. Sue W from Canada writes: I visit Kensington Market periodically and just happened to be there yesterday.

    I don't think this community really needs the advice of an academic, an expat who has just arrived in Canada and has taken a 5 minute tour on how best it should 'evolve'.

    The people who live, work, shop and dine frequently and support the community have done a pretty good job so far, and I'm sure they'll continue to be active participants in it's development what ever that might look like in the future.
  7. rob gunn from Shawnigan Lake BC, Canada writes: Dont shot the messanger because of his birth place. He talks nice about maybe the best parts of Toronto. I moved from TO in the mid-90s and besides family, the most missed stuff is Queen ST W and the Kensington market area. I wish I could take my wife and kids there like I got to go when young . Karen Rd public school took my friends and I in grade 3-4 and WOW what an eyeoopening experience. Thanks for taking me back DR. Florida, even if you did compare it to the states which you will find canadians act like siblings that get compared. Live and learn. take care , Rob
  8. Riina Kindlam from Tallinn, Estonia writes: I can’t help wondering what &8220;becoming a very, very upscale city&8221; means exactly. Sounds like the promise of a promotion, like something wonderful is about to happen, that we should be proud of. As in &8220;We&8217;ve made it!&8221; And yet the observer points out that becoming &8220;very upscale&8221; (like what... wealthy US cities with glitz, glam and a Trump headquarters?) actually leads us further and further away from &8220;real urbanism&8221;! So we&8217;re not becoming more urban, more of a city in the true sense of the word (gritty, macho?), but the opposite. It seems like a bizarre growth deception, kind of like pumping too much Viagra could lead you to believe you&8217;re something you&8217;re actually not (any more)? We're growing and gleaming, yet simultaneously shrinking and become homogenous. Puffing out with hollow innards...
  9. Riina Kindlam from Tallinn, Estonia writes: For some reason, my quotation marks and apostrophes registered as numbers... (the result of cut paste). I apoligise for the visual disruption.
  10. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: Dr. Florida has a lot of great ideas and wisdom to impart, and this city needs him. So what if he's an American? Since when is something like birthplace a barrier to or disqualification from providing much needed expertise to a city that has no idea what it is? Posters who bring up that tired anti-Americanism only shows how ignorant THEY are. I look forward to reading these pieces every weekend. Those of you who don't want to listen and maybe progress just because he's American are free to go back to your little, old, protected bubbles. The rest of us want to evolve and grow. Sometimes it takes an outsider to show us how creative/innovative/unique we really are and how much potential we have to be a hot urban centre that's the envy of other cities.
  11. True North from Canada writes: Let's hope Kensington Market never changes.
  12. Subhadeep Chakrabarti from Edmonton, AB, Canada writes: Kensington is a marvellous neighbourhood. Whenever I have a chance to viist T-dot, I always make sure to visit it. I hope this unique gem remains free from chain stores and gentrification.
  13. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: The first post is hilarious.

    Beth Bedard from Canada writes: "Does Richard Florida realize he is no longer in the USA - Toronto is not a suburb of New York, it is a different country".

    Wow, and I always thought Quebec might be the first region to become a "different country".

    I guess Toronto beat it to the punch...
  14. carol c from Canada writes: 'There is nothing unique about the Kensington market. A good place to buy fresh food.'

    I go to Kensington Market about once a month, and I think it's very unique. I've never seen a neighbourhood like it in a lot of countries (I've been to quite a few). It's a mix of food, clothing, restaurants, art, community, and is incredibly vibrant. There's an amazing mix of cultures too. Certainly Toronto's not New York, but give it it's due.

    Who Richard Florida is and what his accomplishments are are in the article. Why comment on something that you can't be bothered to read? Or a neighbourhood it sounds like you haven't been to?
  15. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: Unique as a gritty, ethnic market street - no. People just don't get out enough - sorry. It's a nice place to go in Toronto - end of story.
  16. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from Canada writes: Why is no one wearing poppies in that video? I'm very sorry, but last time I checked Toronto was in Ontario, which is in Canada. There's a ton of that population missing from multiple world wars, who built that place.

    Regardless of your lot in life, disrespect for Canada's War Dead is not cool, and they never should be forgotten.

    For history forgotten is history REPEATED.
  17. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from Canada writes: I must add, my grandma had no love lost for Toronto. She only went there once, i have a feeling she felt left out, and unwanted, because she came from a rural environment.
  18. Joe Liberali from Canada writes: Unwanted? or unfitting? Rural is the antithesis of city. How would someone from the city fare with people in the country?
  19. B Littmann from Canada writes: Richard Florida provides an interesting outsider's view of Toronto. He has become a Toronto booster in a way no Canadian seems to be capable of. His main thesis is that Toronto is an exciting world class city, but that its inhabitants seem oddly reluctant to recognize that. So true.
  20. Mister J from London Ont, Canada writes: My concern is that Dicky Florida is unable to see anything outside his own catch-phrase - "creative class." Like so many academics (myself included!) and planners, they subscribe to one or a set of theories to interpret and understand the world. So, it's not surprising to read Florida's comments on Kensington. Just like all the 'evil' planners that Jacobs critiques - they were unable to see a neighbourhood for what it 'is' and imposed their own theories on what they saw.
  21. A Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: I love Kensington Market. It may not be unique in the grand scheme of things, but there is something about its layout that encourages slow, aimless wandering, which is really relaxing in this rat-race city.

    Plus, ever time I go I end up buying some exotic tea or a type of cheese I've never tried. Love to sit in the corner cafe and drink an espresso while looking at the paper Globe or just people watching. I go pretty much every Saturday morning.
  22. J K GALBRAITH from Canada writes: Judge Mr. Florida on what he says, not where he is from. I thought he made very good comments on how you need to protect a Kensington Market without freezing it in time so it becomes less appealing.
  23. B I from Toronto, Canada writes: As a proud Kensington resident I don't really find anything objectionable in this article. I do feel though that this article fell short of its intentions to champion the small businesses that keep the neighbourhood alive and buzzing. Perhaps Dr. Florida needs to spend some more time in the area, talk to more people and revisit this article in a year.

    Jo Geoghegan from Heart's Delight, Canada writes: DBC ( dull, boring, Canadian) Toronto is certainly no New York. No buzz.
    Capice?

    Toronto also doesn't have anywhere near New York's population and thus its artistry suffers and stagnates at times but for a city our size, there is plenty of buzz. I don't know what you use to measure buzz Jo, but if there was a per capita element, we give NYC a run for its money (in Canadian dollars, of course). New Yorkers I meet generally love Toronto and Torontonians feel likewise about our larger model south of the border. City people (real cities, not Calgary or Denver) are always appreciative of other cities' efforts to allow culture to flourish. New York, Montreal and Toronto are great models for this and the re-emergence of Washington DC in the urban scene is also very encouraging for city dwellers.
  24. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Toronto likes to compare itself to New York City, and does hold an analogous position within Canada. But having lived and worked in nearly a dozen cities, I find Toronto and Chicago to be the most similar yet with plenty of distinguishing characteristics. Kensington Market is a unique feature of Toronto.

    The passport that you hold is not a credential, what you do and your abilities are. Canada must strive to attract world class talents so that more Richard Floridas elect to work from there, even if only for a few years if not 'permanently' (which has less meaning in today's global marketplace), to give as much as to take away. Florida's thesis on the creative class impact on developing a local or regional economy is at work when you look at (e.g.) Portland, Oregon being one of the few US cities whose age 25-49 demographic has grown while (e.g.) Pittsburgh's is shrinking, with one of the oldest demographics on this continent. Canada in general has similarities to high tax, high cost 'blue' states and in some social areas, achieved what many people in Portland and Chicago are still fighting for. Reasons why the US west coast, metro Chicago and northeast continue to thrive and attract people despite the appeal of 'red' states with low taxes and low costs can serve as case studies for Canada in a continental, yea global, competition.
  25. Big Cayman from South Toronto, Canada writes: Interesting article. I am not sure whether or not I believe Kensington needs insulation from change, instead of allowed to follow its natural path; There isn't really a definite outcome from where growth will bring you. It's interesting how, the article refers to SoHo in NYC which has become more trendy and lost home of its bohemian charm. Right now I am in London England, and SoHo in this city has certainly evolved away from its artistic and activist roots. But though the cosmetic look has been somewhat preserved, the vestiges of its roots are still apparent in the authentic Italian cafes, turn-of-the-century style pubs, and Ronnie Scott type jazz lounges dotting the new gloss of boutiques, night clubs, and freehouse gastrnomic bistros. Its still very much alive and fun. Then you have Camden Market which is more like Kensington Market except 20 fold, and probably the most vibrant place in London right now. Its growth is spectacular as shops are opening literally one on top of the other, but there are no signs yet of any inpending doom or imminent commercialism except for a lone Starbucks on its periphery(which has been there for at least a few years), one could ask its business leaders what the secret is. There is also Bricklane, born out of an immigrant neighbourhood within the working class Hackney district, and a gentrification movement which is tempering the cultural flavour of this fairly new and rapidly expanding open market, Portobello Road could be considered its rich Notting Hill cousin. The point is that its not the neighbourhood that creates the people, these neighbourhood are created by people who are inspsired to contribute to their community. As long as they are not priced out of their ability to contribute they will always be around. If Kennsington Market ever evolves into a SoHo (which will happen) a new market community will be created in its place, there is probably one being formed right now.
  26. Sam G from Toronto, Canada writes: Let's put this in perspective. RF just arrived in Toronto, which means that his excitement about the city is still at its highest. His picture of the city is also painted pink by the job at Rotman. What is not to like so far? Kensington Market is just a small (tiny in fact) part of Toronto. What about Bloor Street Village?

    If RF wants to see he grittiness of the Urban Toronto, he needs to take a stroll in Scarberia (Scarborough). There is also a very urban area at Jane and Finch. When it comes to urban planning, Toronto is neither a success not an example. Comparison with NYC is also a bit overdone: while NYC is (still) center of the universe, Toronto is (still) largely its hinterland.
  27. B I from Toronto, Canada writes: Sam G from Toronto, Canada writes: If RF wants to see he grittiness of the Urban Toronto, he needs to take a stroll in Scarberia (Scarborough). There is also a very urban area at Jane and Finch. When it comes to urban planning, Toronto is neither a success not an example.

    Yes let's put down the city by focusing on its periphery where some people have been marginalized by socio economic circumstances. That's a great way to look at it. People in NYC could do the same by pointing at the problems in Harlem and claiming that their city is a not a "success." You started your post by talking about "perspective" but lost it all by the end. Do you even remember that Scarborough was its own independent city up until about a decade ago? What was Toronto supposed to do when it inherited Scarborough - raze all the strip malls the old City of Scarborough fostered and turn them into botanical gardens?
  28. F H from Canada writes: He's right. Kensington Market is very unique, even in Canada. There's NOTHING like it in Ottawa, where I reside. Here, the Markets are very regulated and there's no one place to go for blocks of funky, affordable clothes, produce from around the world, gritty bars full of amazing music, family owned stores, etc. It's one of the main things I miss about Toronto. I really hope developers keep their nasty mitts off it and let the inhabitants of the neighbourhood decide how their neighbourhood will evolve.
  29. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Alot of people missed the message here. When RF was comparing TO to NY, he wasn't inferring that Toronto is the same scale as NY. Instead, he was comparing Toronto's decentralized, neighborhood focused planing to that of New York. During the postwar years, most N.American cities totally destroyed their downtown neighbourhoods with suburbanizations. Toronto itself nearly destroyed Kensington market with the Spadina expressway in the 1960's, which would have quite literally paved over the easter end of the area. That said, Toronto didn't do that and we remain one of the most neighborhood focused cities in N.America, despite our size, we share this trait in common with New York which faced similar problems in protecting its bohemian areas (Greenwich for example). So can people please stop jumping on Florida for comparing us to NY, he has enough academic and practical knowledge to know that NY is on a different scale.
  30. ray ittac from Canada writes: Ummmmmmm...haven't local planners been saying the same thing for ten years? Really a non-news story here. Quick summary: " Kensington better be careful or it will become common". Wow---need a PhD for that?
  31. Louise Pharand Doren from Toronto, Canada writes: I love Kensington Market. I worry only that bohemians are not the best at maintaining heritage homes. I hope it never disappears, because Toronto will have succeeded in attaining the goal of becoming utterly shallow and superficial, without it as a reminder of its truer nature. It's not fabricated, it's organic. Long live Kensington!
  32. Sam G from Toronto, Canada writes: B I: I suggest to you to spend some money on travel. Once you have traveled and lived in major metropolitan areas outside of Canada, you will realize what I am talking about. Certainly, all major cities have problematic areas. My point here is that comparison between NYC and Toronto has been overdone for a long time. Have you lived in NYC for any significant period of time? I have lived (and worked) in both Toronto and NYC for long enough to know that it takes more than one neighborhood (even one as cool as Kensigton Market) to put the city on the map. If you expand the urban comparison of Toronto to Amsterdam or Munich, you will realize that Toronto is lagging and has to be promoted more.
  33. James Robinson from Toronto, writes: The article & slide show does a great job of presenting the challenge:

    How does Kensington Market maintain its authenticity given tremendous development pressures in downtown Toronto?

    Certainly, intensifying residential & businesses uses downtown is critical from a smart growth and sustainability perspective. But, how is this done without losing the essence of this vibrant mixed-use community?

    The worst thing that could happen is for high rise development to replace the existing retailers and area residents.

    I would argue that the low-rise scale of buildings in Kensington Market need protection, while allowing for more intensive development on the streets surrounding the market. The surrounding streets of Spadina, Bathurst, Dundas, & College are all well served by streetcar lines. They can better accommodate Toronto’s growing population while keeping the interior streets of Kensington Market on a smaller scale.
  34. Robin H From Toronto from Toronto, Canada writes: Um Florida's point was around the use of space, the balancing of the small, unique, unlike, with the coming of more-of-the-same condos to the same space. Be aware of the need for balance to sustain the creative energy, was all he said.
  35. secret comment from TO, Canada writes: Wow, the crazy thing about these comments is how freak'n insecure you Canadians really are. Stop comparing yourself to New York!!! I LOVE NY is a branding campaign that you should all really learn from.
  36. a neumann from Chicago, United States writes: This description of Kensington Market sounds like what Chicago was like 20-30 years ago before the invasion of mini - malls and chain stores throughout the city.
  37. Gee Cameron from Hamilton, Canada writes: I agree why not just say thank you to Mr Florida and accept a compliment. I visited KM only once and thought it unique, so sue me!
  38. Cuban Cigar from Canada writes: Kensington's character and charm has to be maintained.

    However it's not only the condo-threat. I saw that Cob's bakery has opened up - very much out of character for that place. Kensington has successfully kept Starbucks and others out of the area and can't imagine how Cobs got in. Hope this is not a start of chains invading and destroying the character of Kensington.
  39. Michael Sharp from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    There is no hope for Tapioca-on-the-Lake.

    None whatsoever.

    Bland it is and bland it shall ever be.
  40. bob london from Canada writes: Mister J from London Ont, Canada

    Are you a disgruntled professor who has been intelectually masterbating and jealous you did not come up with the idea. Hopefully Florida goes to London as he will be impressed with what the newcomers are doing to the place. People who move to London from elsewhere see the potential but are disgusted with how the locals have no clue. London has the people, the heritage and is working on the tools to be an Austin Texas or Raleigh Durham. By the time you agree with Florida it will be in a history book printed by another prof. Hindsight is 20/20 and it is to bad professors usually don't have it.

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