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Late risers lobbying for workplace recognition

PATRICK WHITE

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 9:02 AM EDT 12/11/07

'They make it seem like being a night owl is a choice. It's actually biological. It's like being blue-eyed or brown-eyed.' ...Read the full article

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  1. Lauren H from Ottawa, Canada writes: Please god let this spread.

    Posted at 3:04 AM Monday.
  2. Kathryn Morrison from Toronto, Canada writes: About time, too. (Note that the time here is 4:02 a.m.) I'm tired of people chastizing me for my 'student' lifestyle or assuming I'm lazy because my schedule is a little different. (Usually, I'm just tired in general.) We accommodate all kinds of difference in the workplace, from flextime to flexplace to telecommuting to goodness knows what else, spending millions of dollars (which is great), and yet this one basic difference is never acknowledged, and the late risers are subject to snickering coworkers.

    Late risers are always free to choose a different career path, and likely have until now, but this is a trend I hope to see catch on in all career paths!
  3. L B from Tanzania writes: My husband and I were night owls too, until we had children. No better cure for resetting your clock then a child who wakes every day at 5am for the first five years of his life. Can't wait for payback when he is 16!
  4. D Mores from GTA, Canada writes: Many computer programmers are reputed (so this is word-of-mouth) to work late. I've even read articles in Wired magazine where the CEO says that when interviewing a programmer who says they like to work in the calm of night, they are almost hired on-the-spot, because this pattern has been observed to be characteristic of the better programmers.

    Same goes in some parts of the entertainment industry. While late night parties can fuel that culture, some composers and writers also like to work in the calm of night.

    But going against convention is always hard to do.
  5. Bill McWilliams from montreal, Canada writes: Poor humanity. It's a wonder we got so far.

    What I would like to know is the people in the article's sleep times and habits. I thought I used to be a nightowl untill I changed shift. I now work days and am a day person and would not change for anything.

    It's all habitual, folks. You go to bed early, you wake up early. Your body gets used to it and it becomes normal. I used to go to bed at 4, 5, or 6 AM and wake at 11 or 12. Everything was normal. Now I wake at 6AM and leave for work at 8. In bed by 11pm. Again, all is normal, for me.
  6. Manda B from GTA, Canada writes: I have to agree that it's largely habitual. I thought I was a night owl for years, no matter when I went to bed I couldn't seem to wake up before 8 am. I'd stay up until 2 or 3 am every night and wake up some time after 8 am (usually missing my 8 am class in my 1st year of university) no matter how many alarms I set. Then when I was in my early 20's I got a job where I had to be up before 6 am every day - after a couple of hard months my body adjusted and now I choose to work early. I can't seem to sleep past 6 am anymore, no matter how hard I try.

    In my office people start anytime from 6:30 am until 10:30 am, which is great but can make it hard to schedule meetings - the night owls have trouble making it to the 9 am meetings and the early birds are forced to stay late for 3 or 4 pm meetings.
  7. Tracy Lee Carroll from United States writes: I whole heartily disagree with you. I have been a night owl all my life and was most productive in job where I worked a 4pm to midnight shift. I have been a mother now for 24 years (4 kids; 24, 22, 12, 9) and have been forced to conform to a 'normal' schedule. I walk around in a daze most mornings and do not hit my stride until afternoon, but then peter out because I woke up so early (for me). My husband used to think the same as you, Bill, but after living with me for so long, he knows better.

    On top of that, our youngest daughter is also a night owl. As a baby we would put her to bed between 7 and 8pm, lights out, no toys, no nothing. When we would go to bed around 11, she would still be wide awake in her crib singing and laughing to herself with no outside influences. If that isn't expressly nature, I don't know what is.

    I would love to see a study done to see is this is more of a female trait than a male trait. Most of the night owls I have known have been women. I don't know if that is true or not, just my own observation.

    So, while for some people it may be a matter of lifestyle and choice as Bill has stated, I know that for many it is a natural way of life induced by one's own body clock that is not easily changed. In fact, I am not sure that it can be changed, only worked around.
  8. G N from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm betting Dan Shortt voted for Mike Harris, too. Heaven forbid we pay attention to scientific research.
  9. S Fleming from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm a female night owl, too, Tracy Lee Carroll. I've been able to work an evening shift for five years (two jobs during that time). Both jobs were at companies that needed to be staffed 24/7. I could probably adapt to the day shift but avoiding rush hour is very important to me. Also, I don't have to do errands like groceries and laundry at peak times.
  10. S Fleming from Toronto, Canada writes: I forgot to mention the shift premiums involved in working later in the day.
  11. CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: L B from Tanzania writes: My husband and I were night owls too, until we had children. No better cure for resetting your clock then a child who wakes every day at 5am for the first five years of his life. Can't wait for payback when he is 16!

    You got that right. This is nothing more than a lazy unwillingness to get your butt out of bed on time. What are these people saying, that we should put this on the same level as gender and racial diversity??? Haven't we been saying that there's NO difference??? Get yourself out of bed!
  12. John Silverman from Canada writes: I disagree with this article - I think sleep patterns are habitual. I used to be a total night owl too - but then when forced to get up early, you get used to it, and now I can't sleep in late if I try.

    I see no reason to change the current schedule because some people want to stay up really late. I mean who wouldn't want to stay up late if they could - I would, but then what, is everyone going to start at noon instead, and then do we redefine the definition of the working day? And then people start wanting to start even later then that, etc. Where does it end?
  13. Mike L. from Canada writes: I noticed most of the "night owls" in the article and in the comments, are female. Could this be the true reason for the "glass ceiling", not sex discrimination? This would of course turn the feminist debate on its ear. Just wondering...
  14. Jeff Taylor from Canada writes: So a few of you think it's all just habit and/or laziness: "I thought I was a night owl, until...."

    Has it ever occured to you that your own personal experience isn't the only legitimate experience? That maybe, just maybe, some peopel aren't like you? The tendency to judge the entire world according to one's own preferences and habits is the sign of a small and narrow mind.

    To L B from Tanzania: Having children does not turn everyone in natural early risers. I have two young children, which has forced a change in my schedule. But I still feel the tug of late nights, and I'm sure I'll revert back to that pattern when they're grown.
  15. carol c from Canada writes: 'This is nothing more than a lazy unwillingness to get your butt out of bed on time.'

    And when you nod off towards 11:00 pm, CHP, is that also a lazy unwillingness to stay up and have a good chat or do some chores? Circadian rhythms are pretty well established in medical circles. Preference for a certain time of day or night could very well be another example of our bodies' internal clocks.
  16. John H from Canada writes: Well since this is a Glove article we all know we have not been given all the information. And do we know if this study was peer accepted? Personally based on the little in the article I will disagree and say the issue is a habitual problem corrected by a proverbial kick in the butt.
  17. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: Well ... what happened to my comment? It's gone. G N? Anybody ...?

    As I was saying .... this appears to be another fluff piece posted by the Globe & Mail.

    While I understand about staying up late at night, I have little sympathy for these folks. Attributing their sleeping-in habits to genetics or hereditary is a cop-out.

    Oh, maybe they just find it too difficult to wake up early enough to get to work by 9:00 a.m. Betcha they don't have any problem catching their 6:00 a.m. flight for their vacation in Jamaica.

    If you're going to stay up until 3 or 4 in the morning, why bother going to bed at all? Just go right around the clock, show-up for work at the proper time the next morning, and put in a full day of work. You'll be in be before 3:00 a.m. the next night for sure ... genetic predispostion or not.
  18. Darren X from Toronto, Canada writes: It isn't "just habitual". (I've never understood the arrogance of some people like CHP, giving others lectures on how they should feel). I work on a Bay Street trading floor, where most people are at their desks by 7am. I'm "the slacker" who shows up at 7:30, and believe me it would be 3h later if I could get away with it. I've been doing this for two years. I've NEVER gotten used to it. The alarm goes off at 6am and I curse, every single time. Going to bed at 10pm would be a good idea, but it never happens... I'm wide awake at that point and doing something interesting... I don't want to go to bed!
  19. Plain Jane from Toronto, Canada writes: It's a shame there's no way to accommodate different circadian rhythms in university or most workplaces (especially anything that pays minimum wage). I think that differences in rhythm will end up being widely ignored for anyone in a job that wouldn't normally accommodate their needs anyway.
  20. Ragged Mouths from Houston, Canada writes: Seriously, get a grip. We are attuned to the sun (it's not a question of 'peasant scheduling') and, if there are genetic pre-dispositions for night-owl behaviour, then I have a few questions:

    -Why only our species?
    -Can these night owls see better at night, etc?

    I can only assume some adaptive reason for this genetic difference.

    I hate waking up early, late, or any time at all. But I get over it.
  21. Ragged Mouths from Houston, Canada writes: Tracy Lee Carroll from United States writes: I whole heartily disagree

    Ms. Carroll, I believe you meant "whole heartedly" i.e. with a whole heart, and not "whole heartily" which, I guess, would mean that your heartiness is fully behind your statement.

    Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine....
  22. b mac from Canada writes: You can be a early riser or you can be a late riser just by changing your life style. It's not rocket science. Early riser is far healthier.
  23. carol c from Canada writes: 'Early riser is far healthier.'

    Where is the scientific evidence of this? It may be the opposite as early risers may tend to get less than an optimum amount of sleep.

    In my experience early risers have an attitude of superiority. I work mostly in the afternoons and evenings, and this suits me well. I get up around 8:00 or 9:00 (later in the winter) and have some down time in the morning and in the late evening. This in no way makes me inferior to someone who gets up at 5:00 or 6:00, just different. I'm certainly not lazy, and I accomplish just as much in a day as early risers. This idea that people who get up earlier are harder working is really a bit strange to me.
  24. C K from Toronto, Canada writes: My pet peeve is people who deny science. Please note that it was stated that one in four (or 5 out of 20 people) carry the "lateness" gene. One in 10, (or 2 in 20) carry the early riser gene. The other 13 out of 20 presumably fall somewhere in between and have some measure of control over their circadian rhythms. Leading to the successful stories from the "kick in the butt" and "it's all habitual" supporters above. The best argument here is Tracey Lee Carroll's about her daughter: a kid who will sit up for four hours by herself, in the dark, with no toys to entertain her, is a true night owl. And if she grows up to hit her stride at 3pm in the afternoon and works best from then to 7pm, why shouldn't we take advantage of her best talents then, rather than expecting her to do her best from 8am to 12pm? I've worked early morning hours too, as a night owl, but every chance I got -- even on shift work -- I slept in and stayed up late. Maybe someday we'll find out that our night owl gene made us very valuable in prehistoric times, because we stayed awake and watched over the people who slept through the night, protecting them from predator attacks. Of course, the early risers returned the favour by making the coffee and having a nice breakfast of eggs and dinosaur bacon ready when we got up mid morning. :0)
  25. A B from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm sure Darwin would love to weigh in on this debate.

    Consider the fact that hundreds/thousands of years ago, it would have been very important for some people to be night owls and others to be early-risers. The simple fact that if everyone fell asleep at the same time there would be no one to sound the alarm when a group of marauding night owls decided to attack during the quite of night and pillage your village.

    This 25% of the population prone to staying up late would have served a very important role!

    I don't think it is stricly a habit...I certainly do my best work starting in the early afternoon. Up to that point, I am in a bit of a daze. When I'm still plugging away at 11pm and my coworkers are in bed, they get to sleep tight knowing that I will have the days work completed that they couldn't stay alert enough to focus on!

    You early risers need us night owls to protect you still!
  26. M K from Ottawa, Canada writes: Why does everyone have to be in at the same time? I come in for 7:00-7:15 and some of my colleagues only make it in for 9:30. I stay until 4:30-5 and they stay to 6:30-7. It's called coverage.
  27. Sam G from Toronto, Canada writes: Who invented 9-5 anyway? It has all kinds of disadvantages. Most people I worked with (back in my office days) were waking up between 9 and noon, then went for lunch, then a little siesta with eyes wide open, then a little work done and go home. It would be a lot better if employees were valued by performance and not by attendance.

    Or just ditch corporate life and go solo.
  28. web warlock from Toronto, Canada writes: Years ago I used to work the evening shift 5:30 p.m. until 11:30, then go out for dinner and a bike ride with a fellow night owl from midnight until 4 or 5 a.m.

    All those lazy good for nothings sleeping in bed meant we owned the city.

    For the past decade or so I've been dragging myself out of bed for the 9-5 (or in my case 9:30 - 5:30) and there's no doubt I'm not meant for it, my on the job performance suffers. But if you need something done after hours, I'm your man!
  29. marc l from petawawa, ont, Canada writes: The article has validity. Countless people work late shifts in health and emergency services, security, etc. Should they all be in bed instead? Get real. For several years I did the very early shift, at work by 5am. In bed by 8pm. That schedule screws up living in modern society and having a social life. I know people who function much better in the evening if not overnight. What matters is how you use and manage your time, regardless of what time you decide is best to sleep. Do you get your work done and still have time to smell the roses?? I know many people who somehow appear quite happy to be up at 7, at work by 9, home for dinner at 6, and in bed by 9 or 10 again. He-ll on earth in my opinion. Boring. The big problem for night owls is the completely selfish expectation from early risers that you will be available on their schedule. Early risers just can't or won't try to understand night owls, but life happens 24/7, especially in bigger cities. Why that is so difficult for some to accept is another big mystery.
  30. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: "This is nothing more than a lazy unwillingness to get your butt out of bed on time."

    It's not a question of laziness, it's just a question of understanding how and when a person works most effectively. I could wake up at 6:00am and be at work by 7:00, I know that works for some people. But for me I know that I would be useless for the first two hours and would fade badly after lunch, giving me only about three useful hours to do work in a day.

    On the other hand, if I show up at 9:00 or 9:30 I'm usually set to get right into work as soon as I'm settled for the day and am good to go until 6:00pm. I simply get a lot more done on a given day with this schedule. Another guy I know used to rarely show up before 10 and often more like 11 or 12, but he would put in a 50 hour work-week and get as much done as 3 'normal' people during that time. Anyone calling him 'lazy' because he got to work so late had absolutely no business managing anyone.

    It's really not that hard to work around people's personal schedules. Schedule meetings for between 10 and 4 and make sure that the immediate manager can assign work accordingly and you're pretty well set. This applies both to people starting early in the morning (6 or 7am) as well as those that work late.
  31. Jack Napier from Canada writes: Stop complaining, wake up and get your lazy butt to work. Bottom line is that an employer pays you to come to work at a certain time and do your job during business hours. Having a job is not a right and an employee shouldn't get to make their own rules just because they prefer to wake up at a different time.
  32. Sue W from Canada writes: Employees who expect corporations to change their way of doing business merely in order accomodate every one of their rights and wishes live in la-la land.

    Doubt there are too many successful corporations with their CEOs and senior managers who roll into work whenever they feel like it.
  33. CD W from Canada writes: Try sleeping-in in a foxhole, life expectancy, 10 seconds. But on the side of the victim in the story, firefighters spend their whole work lives sleeping on the job, maybe they prove her right.
  34. Lauren H from Ottawa, Canada writes: what i'd like to know is how you can find out whether you're one of these two rarer genetic types: the early bird or the night owl. If this gene is actually different for different people, wouldn't the question of accommodating certain people or not be resolved by just testing them?

    And congratulations everyone who just went "BAH you're all lazy!". You're exactly the kind of people the article is talking about--unwilling even to consider the possibility that you are not the prototype for the rest of humanity. An opinion is one thing, but if there's science, there's science (whether it's good science is another question). Get your head out of the sand and try to be less of a jerk in expressing your opinion, jeez.
  35. Bill Smith from The wilds of the GTA, Canada writes: Interesting article, I used to be a night owl in my twenties and early thirties but switched to being a morning person (alarm goes off at 5 am Monday to Friday). It was a painfull transition but I would rather get to work early than stay late.
  36. Roland Neissinger from Latteville, Canada writes: Being more of a sunshine person: I wake up when the sun shines, and get sleepy with the moon.
    On rainy, fully clouded days I am trying to hibernate, but the darn crazy busy world won't let me.......
  37. 20 20 from Canada writes: Apparently in Spain, many or most people go to bed after midnight, have lunch and siesta from 2-3pm to 4-5pm, work until 8-9pm, have supper at 10pm or later.

    Some of the most successful corporations in the world let their employees work the hours that best suit them: Microsoft, Google, ...

    Email and other new technology have given us more flexibility. The first comment here was made almost 12 hours ago, yet we are able to have a "meeting" and exchange and discuss thoughts.
  38. g k from Canada writes: To all the "late risers are just lazy-get yourselves out of bed" commentators - having worked in the health care and social service sectors for many years, I am sure that all of the nurses, doctors, social workers, emergency medical technicians, police officers and firefighters that work the overnight shift delivering babies and treating heart attack victims, keeping your communities safe and fighting fires appreciate being called lazy. I am a night owl, and worked the overnight shift for many years with other night owls who thrived on those hours. I'm just lucky that I found a profession where the fact that I am able to think clearly at 2am is extremely prized. Would you rather have a doctor treating you in the Emergency Department at 2am who is a night owl and is thinking clearly, or one who is unable to string a sentence together because their circadian rythmes are telling them they should be asleep?
    And the supposition that night owls are just lazy is ridiculous since most overnight workers will work 12 hour shifts, as opposed to the 8 hour shifts of those working during the day - who are the lazy ones then?
  39. Joel B from Toronto, Canada writes: I have this issue. No matter how early (reasonably) I go to bed I will just sleep longer, and still get out of bed at 9-9:30am. I can go to bed at 10 and set the alarm from 6, I can set 3 different staggered alarms, even then I cannot will myself out and I will just hit snooze on them all for 3 hours straight. I'm just not there at that time. I've been doing independent IT consulting for 3-4 years now though so it's a non-issue (don't work, don't get paid) and has increased my productivity. I prefer the 10-8 anyway as then you get an empty office for 3-4 hours and you can get some real work done. So, rather than work to the rule of the office, I work on my terms.
  40. Henry Egan from Cyberland, Canada writes: There is definitely a small percentage of the population that are severely affected by this syndrome.

    I have had them as co-workers and employees and if you allow them to follow their natural patterns you will experience tremendous increases in productivity and creativity in their work. They will also tend to work happier and longer. They are definitely not lazy and often work harder to disprove that image.

    Further, if you do not allow them this flexibility, you tend to have a zombie in the morning who can only perform at a stunned level, thus wasting salary and ultimately resulting in a pointless termination at tremendous cost and disruption to your organization.

    Better to be flexible for these folks and provide them with a home, businesses and societies smart enough to realize this will benefit in the end.

    9-5 or similar was invented for farmers who needed to work during daylight, it is not necessary anymore, especially in a global economy, where the business world never sleeps.
  41. J L from Canada writes: I've worked all schedules, from the corporate 9-5 which has somehow mutated to 8-4, afternoon shifts starting at 3pm, overnight graveyard shifts.... and all for extended periods of time, measured in years not months. I am a night owl. No matter what time I go to bed, if I have to get up early, I can do it, but I'm in a daze and not very functional until 10am. If I work a day shift, no matter what I do, I simply am not tired until late.

    When I work a later day shift or overnight graveyard shift, I'm ready to go as soon as I get up, and I get a lot more done, both at work and in my personal life. It's not a choice, it's not habit. I can get 10 hours sleep, wake up early and be stumbling around. 6 hours sleep but waking up later, huge difference.... I'm wide awake.

    So now what, I'm supposed to get myself hooked on a regular regimen of sleeping pills just so I can "stop being lazy" and get up early? Yeah right, early birds should all be drinking a gallon or two of coffee between 9 and 10 pm just so they can keep up with night owls.

    For those who say they have changed, or blame it on lazyness.... well, perhaps you're just not a true early bird, but one of the common masses who fall somewhere in between.

    I must agree with G K, I would much rather have our emergency services staffed at late hours by night owls who are alert. I know from first hand experience, my family's "business" is emergency medicine - pretty much all of them - 12 hour shifts, and if you think they're sleeping the time away, think again.... especially in a large city, they are going NON-STOP. Hour long lunch break? haha, try grabbing a sandwich from the hospital cafeteria after you've dropped off one patient and are running out the door to attend an MVA. 12 hour overnight shift, vs an 8 hour day shift? OK all you whiny early birds.... at work at 6:00am bright eyed and bushy tailed, work your buns off till 6:00 pm, no lunch breaks, and no complaining!
  42. Dave Fetsch from Canada writes: If you want to know what kind of 'bird' you are take the quiz at www.nightowlnet.com. There are similar quizzes on other sleep-related sites on the web. The definitive way to know is to monitor core body temperature for about three weeks or do the genetic testing.
  43. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: Several posters commented about it being habitual, wouldn't that make being an early riser habitual also?

    I certainly don't buy into this gene called Period 3 notion.

    I've been a night owl since childhood, while I can still manage a 7-4 or 8-5 job, it's been extremely difficult to do so for the past 25 years. The weekends even to this day almost always revert back to my night owl hours.

    Given the comments it appears most feel were just trying to grab some extra sleep. That is hardly the case at all, in fact most of us barely get as much sleep as the rest of you, so drop the laziness remarks. While your in bed asleep at 9 or 10pm I'm doing laundry, painting a room, walking the dog at 1:00am or reading stock listings or a book until 2 or 3am.

    It's plain & simple, our biological clocks are several hours apart from the majority of people, there's no fancy gene at fault, it's not laziness, a hormone imbalance or anything else.

    You can't break us down & categorize us, there's dozens of reasons why we stay up late & sleep later. Most of us from what I've learned over the years tend to have a combination of several factors that influence our night owl tendencies, nobody is a night owl for any one reason!

    Those that say they used to be night owls but then were able to revert to larks likely never were true night owls to begin with!
  44. Ivan Patrick from Canada writes: There has to be biological influences on our ability to be up all night. I've been driving trucks for over 3 years, and more and more jobs involve driving all bloody night. I still struggle to be up past 3am, and despite this struggle, can not get a day shift. And for all the people who respond and say I should get another job- You can bet that I've been trying. I'd love to get a note from a doctor saying I have to work days.
  45. Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: Ever notice how the get-up-early-crowd are always taking naps?
  46. James Robblee from Ottawa, Canada writes: Its about time! Many biological nightowls suffer under the constraint of the tyranny of early risers to the detriment of their health. Incresingly the research shows that there is a relationship between good health and reasonable sleep. Also there is evidence to show that sleep deprived individuals are less likelly to perform well. In this supposedly enlightened era, it is time to accommodate night owls.
  47. Pavel Graymason from Toronto, Canada writes: Genetic differences? Uh, the concept of digital hourly time and a work day are hardly related to genetics... I myself am a night owl but come on, it can hardly be called a biological reality. We should really be looking to sociology and philosophy to answer this question, not pure science. Frankly, I find the idea that a biologist can explain why people don't like 9-5 5 days a week stupid. Like seriously, have we forgotten how to just observe ourselves?
  48. K H from Saskatoon, Canada writes: I've seen the circadian world from both sides now... and have found that I can be well-rested and ready for work whether my shift starts at 7:30 in the morning or 3:00 in the afternoon. According to this article I'm a genetic anomaly. All this time I thought was just trying to be conscientious.

    I think there is some merit in the concept that different people function better at different times of the day, but people should be prepared for the reality that their presence at work is usually going to be required during the day and adjust their routine, caffeine intake, and sense of entitlement accordingly.
  49. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Interesting article. I'm a morning person now, but back in high school/university I'd sleep until noon or 1:00 given the opportunity. These days, I can't sleep past 7:00AM even when the alarm's not set. It doesn't matter how late I stay up the night before, I still wake up bright and early. I'd be interested to know if it's common for our internal clocks to shift with age.
  50. Douglas Camille Joseph Vézina Connors from Ottawa, Canada writes: Finally! I'm a total night-owl. Always have been. The story of the child who stayed up at night quietly amusing themself with songs, the person painting a room at 1 AM, the person arriving late at work all the time no matter what... that could just as easily have been me. After 10 PM, my brain starts firing on all cylinders and I just can't turn it off. If I go to bed, I'll spent hours upon hours staring at the ceiling. Often, if I have to wake up in the middle of the night, sleep is just plain done with because my brain starts up again. I figured this out early in high school and made sure to have phys ed, music, humanities and stuff of the like in the morning, and then subjects such as math, science, and languages in the afternoon. In university, I never took a class before 1 PM if I could help it. Every single high school and university essay I've ever written was penned between midnight and five am. In high school, I graduated top of my class. In university, I missed graduating with an A average by 1/10th of a percent. In a 9 - 5 job, I was always late... but I always stayed late as well so as to put in a full day. Despite the fact, I was always tardy and had nary more than 5 hours sleep a night for over 5 years, I never once missed a deadline, the quality of my work was impeccable, and my productivity was through the roof... until my body completely quit on me and I landed in the hospital. Needless to say I don't even try to do 9 to 5 anymore!
  51. FLUVIAL SEDIMENT from Canada writes: Woo-hoo! How can I join! I have never been able to get to sleep much before midnight. I've tried to go to bed early but just can't sleep early, which means that I'm ok Monday and Tuesday mornings, when I've had the weekend to catch up, but start to drag on Wednesday and by Friday I'm a wreck. Night-owls, unite! I love it! But I would be surprised if it got any more serious attention from management than any other form of diversity which only gets lip service. Nice idea, though. Where do I pick up my picket sign?
  52. alex p from alberta, Canada writes: re: ivan patrick's comment. i've been a professional driver for over 23 years and a night owl even longer than that. i found that a driving job is much easier if you swing over to nights. no rush hour traffic, tourists, or quasi-larks trying to get to work on time. better to own the night.
  53. John Birmingham from Calgoronto, Canada writes: "NetFlix and Best Buy have introduced results-based workplaces "

    Imagine that, resuts based workplace, what a concept. That would sure annoy the early risers that brag, when all they're really doing is putting in face time.

    It takes some people 8 hours to do the job another may take 4 hours to do. Ithink I'll contact best buy. lol
  54. Mary O'Hara from Toronto, Canada writes: LMAO. I guess we can classify "late risers" as having a disability now, and maybe they can collect welfare or Canada pension plan payments because of their disease.
  55. d b from Canada writes: What's funny is that there are accomodations for early risers, but late-risers are usually told to "suck it up." I've always been a night owl. While writing my thesis, my best work would occur after 11pm, and I'd usually work until 3am. I'd get up at noon if possible. My ideal shift is 12-8, but I usually get stuck with 9-5. I'm not fully functional until 12 anyway. Wouldn't it be easier to accomodate me and have me be fully productive?
  56. Line Blain from gatineau, Canada writes: Apparently, early risers like to see themselves as virtuous and prefer to deny facts unearthed by research rather to admit they're just lucky to have the genetic make-up that makes it easy for them to rise before the sun. Circadian cycles have been researched for decades and these new results shouldn't surprise anybody. This doesn't mean that nobody can change their sleep patterns. It means that for a certain number of people, it's virtually impossible. For my part, I'm able to get up as early as it takes. But I know from experience I won't be really "in" until around 9h00 regardless ;)
  57. Kay Ay from Once from CB, Canada writes: So my mom is definately a night owl but my dad just doesn't need much sleep.
    And I would say I'm a bit of both getting up at 6:30am but still easily do laundry at 10pm.
    Good to know I'm not alone in my odd routines.

    I wouldn't change my daytime job though; not while the kids are young.
  58. doctor business from vancouver, Canada writes: This is an interesting study. One, that the authority of science and specifically genes is needed to make claims of this sort. Imagine the cries of "lazy" and "bad habits" we would hear if the article didn't site that. Obviously, there is a large bias on this issue. I don't think genes can explain it all, but it would help explain a lot too. It's also interesting that the next jump after the issue of gene is to: rights. It is a RIGHT to sleep in late? Frankly I think it is a right to sleep when you need to be it early or late - most of the time. Our work ethics are a very big factor here. Probably more so than genes - as work ethic may govern the bias. Also, the late night computer sessions (?TV) are a big issue.

    I find this personally quite interesting as I am a night owl. I am constantly beating myself up about setting a different schedule. The result is more difficulty in forming the habit of time that is required to be more healthy. I've thought of schemes like staying up all night then going to bed early to reset my rhythem. I've tried it lots. Doesn't really work. The key is regularity. However, that regularity just has to be later for me. I've had early jobs and got there on time, but then on the weekend I just had to sleep in and after a while I had to promise myself in the morning that I was going to only do this short term.

    I don't quite see how offices will be changing this or much sense in a rights based movement of this sort. Where I do see a real need for reform is highschools and to some extent elementary schools. Why do schools go from 830 -3pm??? That is not healthy for kids. It reinforces the whole - school is babysitting/punishment/rote work mentality that wastes the time of so many. Schools should foster the natural instinct to learn - not beat it out of them with regimens of unnatural sleep then try to re-introduce it through bland textbooks and "fact" memorisation...
  59. John J from Vancouver Island, BC, Canada writes: Pay attention to the article, 25% of people are late-risers and 10% are early-birds. The rest are somewhere in-between. The people at these extremes probably cannot do much to change their natural patterns. The article doesn't specifically say it, but I assume that the remaining 65% can do more to consciously change their patterns than both extremes.

    The ones who "were" night owls were likely "in-betweeners" who didn't know that they could change their sleeping habits like they did. I used to think that I was an ardent night-owl, but it just turns out that I preferred the night because it was quiet -- not because I needed to sleep in later. I accept that there are people out there who simply cannot get up early just as I know that there are people out there who cannot sleep in past 7:30-8:00am.

    The part that annoys me is that we reward the early-risers for no particularly valid reason now that our work does not depend on daylight. I can tap away at my keyboard at any hour.
  60. John Silverman from Canada writes: Very interesting comments. I'm willing to concede some truth to the science, though I also think that some people could change their habits if they wanted to, it's just hard to know who is who.

    I'm all for some flexibility - just within reason. At my office we have "semi-flexible" hours, where the most important thing is the work at least 8 hours per day. If you want to come-in at 10am, that's fine, but you better be staying until after 6am. However we also have "key hours", where without special permission you must be at work. These are 10am-3:30pm. You can't come in later or leave earlier then this without permission. I think it makes sense since these are the key hours.

    And I also attest that if I come in too early, it does hurt my productivity. People do have certain times where their brain works the best and they are the most productive. But I do think some of that can be altered by simply getting used to a different schedule. It literally took me YEARS to get used to it, but it happened in the end.
  61. Leaving Sooon from Canada writes: This is interesting and true. I consistently work 12 hour shifts of both day and night shift, 7 days a week. I find that the preference for days/nights to be around 50/50. Some people just cannot "switch over" to nights and others thrive. Habitual behavior helps going against body patterns, but still the difference is noticeable.

    We all have different times for different thought processes. Myself, I love nightshift and am most creative between 10:00pm and 12:00am. I am the most productive between 11:00am-1:00pm and 4:00pm-8:00pm.
    Was it coincidence that I stopped doing artwork when forced into bed at 10:00pm?

    Best way to adapt is to learn when you are best at certain things and work around that. In the morning I do the most menial, thoughtless work I need to do and save the critical thinking for other times.
  62. Rest Easy from Vancouver, Canada writes: I find it interesting that some people view diversity in circadian rhythms as a question of character, and judge those with a nocturnal internal clock as flawed and lazy. I wonder if they also judge the lion who hunts at dusk to have less integrity than a rooster. If 25% of people are night owls and 10% are early birds, then clearly evolution has seen the night owl as being more important to survival of the individual and the group. It has also wisely allowed for a minority of early risers to protect and produce early in the day, although given the smaller numbers, this is not as important as being able to do so during the later hours. I have been a night owl for all my 40 plus years. All my workplaces have learned to accommodate that. I hold a responsible professional position. I don't apply for jobs that would require me to be there early. I have to be especially good in my jobs to have my late start to the day accepted. Eventually, nobody questions it. There is nothing wrong with that. I bring a creativity to my roles that often is missing in health management. I introduce new ideas and concepts in a world that tends to resists change. I am not afraid to ask questions and challenge the status quo. Yes, I come in late and work late. Some days I work from home. Some days I have to attend very early morning meetings. There have been nights that I don't leave the office until after midnight. What does it matter as long as what needs to get done is done and I am there when needed. Night owls are often the innovators and to force them to be early birds blunts that trait. I understand that those who like to rise early, like to rise early. Likewise, those who don't, don't. Like most traits, this is likely largely genetic. You can work with your genes or you can work against them. Those that wake up early and exhausted every morning are likely working against their genes.
  63. Bill Needle from Canada writes: I was priviledged to lead a large government department where there were four directors. All worked hard and were very dedicated to the service we provided.

    Two kept normal office hours. One was a 6:15 am starter and one rarely saw 9:30am. The diversity was just great. We always had alert officials and the public had twelve hour availability for no extra cost.

    It made my job much easier and, of course, I tool the credit for such efficiency! All I had to do was accept the hand I was lucky to be dealt.
  64. Sandy G. from Canada writes: Well, well, now I know. I've been a late riser all my life -- from early school throughout my career. I've been fortunate in my working life to have sympathetic bosses who were more interested in what I could produce than what time I start in the morning. There is absolutely no point in my trying to start work before 10AM, and at this point in my life I, and my colleagues, accept that. I work long hours, and I'm successful. School was hard for me as a kid - I was under constant stress to try to start my day at an hour that just didn't make sense for me. I was frequently late, shamed, and hassled. It's good to know why I'm the way I am.
  65. karen l from Canada writes: I've always been a night owl, and had the misfortune to spend more than 25 years in jobs that required me to be at work by 7 am at the latest, no late starting possible. I did it and wasn't often late for work, but keeping those hours for work didn't change my natural inclination one bit. I've recently been "retired" for a year and still tend to wake up at about 9:30 am, regardless of when I went to bed. If I should happen to wake up or get out of bed earlier, I'm not good for much before about 9:30, when my body seems to say"okay, time to move", and I do. I have been known to fall asleep again in the bathtub at 8 am after getting up early. Interestingly, I find it easier to get out of bed at 5 am, which is the middle of the night for me, than at the more conventional 7 to 8 am. In the last job I did which started at 7 am, I found the morning work rush to be absolutely exhausting, that I would pick up speed after lunch, and by quitting time 7 pm when everyone else was beat, I'd be flying around full of energy, could have happily worked another couple of hours, and I always had trouble making myself go to bed before midnight for the 5 am alarm. The only time I naturally wake up early is on summer camping trips when I do wake up with the sun, have traffic free roads for hours and have a nice afternoon nap when the afternoon heat hits. Those who naturally wake up early will never understand this, but remember, guys--when you are falling asleep in front of the TV at 10 pm, us night people still have some hours full of energy to work with.
  66. karen l from Canada writes: Ragged Mouths from Houston Canada writes "why only our species?"
    I see you've never had a cat around the house. And I can't speak for other night owls but I don't have particularly good night vision.
  67. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't understand the big deal either. If you get in at 9:20, stay til 5:20. I totally support flex time. I find I'm most productive and creative between 11 and 7. I WISH that could be my work day. Alas, my employers aren't that flexible. Even with caffeine, my creative flow doesn't kick in until 11. My eyes are open, my joints are moving, lips might even be talking, but the brain is effectively still in dreamland/denial. Luckily I can practically do this job in my sleep, and it appears I do! :D

    People who think it's laziness are uptight. If you get up early and love it, good for you Everyone's different. Kids obviously change everything, but that doesn't mean some parents don't find getting up early painful/like pulling teeth. Couples trade off morning time for that very reason.
  68. A J from Canada writes: Hogwash. This is junk science. I was one of those kids that had three alarm clocks (literally) and my parents had to wake me. Stayed up into the wee hours for years through my degree and first couple years of work.

    Then I decided to come in early to get my OT in and have some of my day left. For years now, I've been starting at 6am. Avoid traffic, get work done, get home in the daylight (even in winter). Its a concious choice. Its not biology. Habitually staying up late and subsequently getting up late is just lack of willpower or laziness.

    There was an article months ago on how some peolple can get up and be alert in a few minutes and some take an hour or two to 'get going'. I am one of the former. This may explain the habit of most late risers.

    Btw, Carol C, as usual you are a bonehead. 'b mac' is right on the money.

    A J
  69. Mary T from Toronto, Canada writes: I have tried my entire adult life to turn myself into a morning person, and I just can't. I would love to be a morning person, but I am not. Trust me, it is hard to have only a few hours of daylight in the winter, and it sucks to be judged and chastised. This is not a choice; if it was, this would not be the choice I'd make. I once had a job with a 6:30 AM start time, and I had to quit because I kept having accidents that were putting my life at risk. At my current job, my boss has requested that I start at 10:30 AM because he acknowledges that it is a waste of his money to pay me to sit at my desk in a daze. I stay until 6:30 or 7 PM. My boss works from noon until about 8 PM and is available by blackberry until midnight. Our administrative staff works 9 to 5. The result is that we are available to clients whenever they need us and we each work the hours that make us most productive and happiest. As for going to bed early and training myself to get my lazy self out of bed, I have never been able to fall asleep before 2 AM, even with medical aid. If I set an alarm, I will turn it off in my sleep and wake up when I'm ready, without even noticing it. Believe me, I have sought help for this "problem" that so many people feel compelled to mock and it is not fixable.
  70. DENNIS TEEL from GARLAND, United States writes: I HAVE A BONE TO PICK WITH 'NIGHT OWLS'- while Idon't have a problem understanding that being a night person is genetic.what i have a problem with is the actions and attitudes of so many'nightowls,in that they seem to not understand that 2 in the morning isn't 2 in the afternoon and that they don't have the right to carry on as though it is/.
    unlike day time people,their music has to be lower in volume,they can't be grouping outside and carrying on as though it's a 12 noon lunch break..period..thats just how it is/. ie,night time is still night time and daytime is daytime /.the apartment complex i live in enforces the quiet time between 10pm and 8am,cause most people still (and always will)sleep nights. that rule is broken frequently by 3rd shift workers who are at home nights because they come home late nights or evenings and either hang outside with friends or crank up their music in this"not everybody works days" attitude/.thank goodness these kind of residents eventually get evicted/. i have nothing against night owls if they keep in mind that MOST PEOPLE SLEEP NIGHTS but from what i've seen so far very few of them to be respectful of that fact/.
  71. Sydney R from Canada writes: Many companies and institutions such as universities are great on flex-time, enabling night-owls to arrive and work later. It also works for couples who overlap jobs to spend more time parenting their kids and save on babysitting costs.
  72. Sylvia GD from Montreal, Canada writes: To Dan Shortt from Toronto who wrote: "If you're going to stay up until 3 or 4 in the morning, why bother going to bed at all? Just go right around the clock, show-up for work at the proper time the next morning, and put in a full day of work. You'll be in be before 3:00 a.m. the next night for sure ... genetic predispostion or not." From my personal experience, I can tell you that that does not work. I'm a night owl who has to work a 8:00am-5:00pm shift, even though my natural sleep hours are about 3:30am to 9:30am. A few years ago, I was signed up for a 5-day course that started at 7am and ended at noon (meaning I'd have to leave the house at 6am). I knew there was no way I'd be able to get up on time in the morning to make the course, so a few days prior to the course (and throughout the course week) I decided to go to bed much earlier than usual and hopefully get up earlier. What happened was that I would lay in bed wide awake the whole time I was trying to fall asleep, and would still be awake way past the hours I would have normally fallen asleep if I would've stayed up and continued with the activities I usually do at night. It would be 5am, time for me to get up, and I'd still hadn't slept a wink. This went on for 9 days straight!!! To the morning larks who say that night owls are lazy and put no effort into trying to adapt to your hours: tell me how many morning larks you know who would be willing to put their body through having to stay up 9 days straight in order to adapt to another schedule. Morning larks are always telling the night owls to just go to bed earlier and get up earlier. Why don't the morning larks try to do that themselves first? If you're a lark who's used to going to bed at 10:30pm and getting up at 6:00am... try going to bed at 6:30pm and getting up at 2:00am for a few months. See what that does to your body. Then decide if you still want to tell the night owls to go to bed and get up earlier than their bodies would prefer.

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