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Critics raise red flag over fluoride in tap water

MARTIN MITTELSTAEDT

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:20 PM EDT 23/11/07

Recent research suggests fluoride may be connected to a number of serious conditions ...Read the full article

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  1. Hey, that's my armadillo, get your own. from Canada writes: Here we go again. The great flouride debate. Still...if it's there for our teeth and brushing with a flouride toothpaste is just as effective, then it should not be added to our water supply.
  2. CC Rider from Toronto, Canada writes: NO KIDDING! WHAT A SURPRISE! No wonder we do not like to drink tap water for this and other health reasons.
  3. emilio D from Vancouver, Canada writes: Flouride should only be in our toothpaste not added into our tap water. Since they are telling us that we should be drinking at least 8 glasses of water/day then that will translate into overdose of flouride. These people should do more solid research not half of this, half of that research.
  4. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: And Toronto is thinking of taxing bottled water to encourage consumption of city water. Flouride is just one of the reasons I avoid tap water when I can.
  5. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: I guess General Jack D. Ripper was right after all. 'Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.'
  6. J Cooper from Toronto, Canada writes: Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works. I first became aware of it during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women...but I do deny them my essence.
  7. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: I remember when the John Birch Society, one of the craziest group of right-wing morons in the U.S. -- and obviously decades ahead of 'its time' -- was screaming in the 1950's and early 60's about fluoridation being a 'Communist plot' to turn people in the U.S. into . . . liberals (!) or some such nonsense. . . . I was always thankful that it never dawned on them that 'they' (You-Know-Who) had put iodine into the salt in North America and that we all were benefiting thereby. HORRORS !
  8. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your postwar Commie conspiricy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into your precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard core Commie works.
  9. Manda B from GTA, Canada writes: Someone I know is very health conscious and as a result gave her young son only bottled water to drink, never tap water. At 5 years old, after complaining about pain in his teeth, she took him to the dentist and they discovered that he had a mouth full of cavities. This little boy eats little to no sweets (he even reprimands her for eating unhealthy food), brushes his teeth religiously and is otherwise very healthy. The dentist advised her to start giving her son tap water to drink because he needs the fluoride in the water to protect his teeth.
  10. Paul C from Toronto, Canada writes: These days, is there anything that can't kill you? Smog, global warming, fluoride in the water, global terrorism, bird flu.... Death stalks you at every corner!!
  11. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: Hey Paul...looking at a computer monitor can cause death...Yikes!
  12. Stude Ham from Outremont, Canada writes:

    'reduced intelligence levels in children, and impaired thyroid function'

    anyone remember that these were also the reasons given for justifying the removal of lead from gasoline ... and the removal of a whole bunch of other additives from a whole bunch of other products?

    did the research actually discover reduced intelligence in children over the last 50 years? and this this reduced level of intelligence continue into adulthood?

    as for the thyroidal hormonal impairments.... do the food chain additives... and genetically modified foods... possible contribute to the conditions? or is it just fluoride in the drinking water?

    next we'll find out that the calcium in milk leads to uncontrollable addictions to blog writing....

    maybe i'll just stick to my single malt whisk(e)y.

    L'CHAIM!
  13. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks to Martin Mittelstaedt for writing another excellent article on environmental health hazards. To learn more about the dangers of fluoridated water, and the links between the nuclear industry, chemical companies, public health associations and dental groups in promoting this use of what the author shows to be industrial waste, read 'The Fluoride Deception' by Christopher Bryson. Watch an interview with the author at http://fluoridealert.org/bryson.htm Learn how respected scientists with prestigious institutes have been banished to the wilderness, their careers in ruin, after publicizing their findings on the toxicity of fluoride.

    Bryson claims fluoride science is DDT science, tobacco science, asbestos science, science for hire. After watching the video, you won't want to drink another glass of tap water again.

    How to get fluoride out of our drinking water? Public pressure. I'm going to stop clicking away here right now and, instead, start composing an incensed letter to my mayor and city councillor.
  14. Helene Ducharme from Canada writes: Last night, on a health show on Tele-Quebec, there was a discussion on this. Young Quebeckers have more cavities than young Ontarians. What is missing from your article is statistical information on cavities. Also it was said that many European countries put fluor in salt instead of water. Your good journalist André Picard should comment on this and provide a balanced picture .
  15. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Okay, a few more clicks. In Western Europe, fluoride is banned from being introduced into the drinking water. Children's teeth are as healthy as those in the United States and Canada.
  16. emilio D from Vancouver, Canada writes: Stude Ham, sorry, but whisky is also diluted with tap water to improve the taste and reduce the alcohol content to somewhere around 40 to 50% from 77%. So you are still drinking some amount of flouride. We all die together in this one.
  17. brm 2000 from HOGTOWN, Canada writes: We should not fluoridate our water. The links between who supplies the fluoride and who puts it into the water should be examined. Is it a powder or is it a liquid that gets added to the water? Where does it get added and at what point? Toronto should end fluoridation now. It contradicts the advice to drink tap water. Could a legal case be made for a disease caused by added fluoride? Lets hope it is removed for good.
  18. dirigo dirigo from Canada writes: So get rid of the fluoride in drinking water and put up with the extra decay if your so worried. Most decay is probubly due to lack of proper oral hygiene and lousy diet. I doubt the negative effects of fluoridated water are as extreme as detractors say, but hey, I'm sure the dentists could use the extra work.
  19. Susie Q from Canada writes: It says right on the package not to swallow toothpaste. D'uh.
  20. V C from Toronto, Canada writes: I'd rather have the fluoride and not the nickname 'Gummy', thanks very much.
  21. J Billins from TO, Canada writes: Mercury, lithium, flouride, lead, yummy metals.

    When I start drinking tap water my energy level drops %10-20. Could be thyroidic, I dont know.

    But I have heard that drinking flouridated water will cause someone to start believing whats on FOX News. Any truth to that?
  22. A J from Canada writes: Noted scientist 'Manda B' writes: 'Someone I know is very health conscious and as a result gave her young son only bottled water to drink, never tap water. At 5 years old, after complaining about pain in his teeth, she took him to the dentist and they discovered that he had a mouth full of cavities.'

    Good study. Thanks for the laugh Manda. The bottled water most likely is tap water with flouride in it. There is so much difference between the enamel of different people's teeth that would more than account for this one case.

    I've been drinking distilled water and eating lots of sweets for a lot longer than that and I have no problems (aside from attitude). Add that to your study.

    A J
  23. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Gail C from Toronto; 'a few more clicks' will always provide the casual Internet 'researcher' with EXACTLY what they are looking for.

    Judging by your first post you have an obvious bias against science and the establishment. You are programmed to fight authority.

    Are you a Mellancamp fan?
  24. Chris H from Canada writes: Suzie Q, it's a question of dosage, duh! And also, we don't put Sodium Lauryl Sulfate in our water, but we do in the toothpaste, which is the main reason why you shouldn't eat it.

    I would sooner drink cheap tap water than pay Pepsico to bottle it for me and charge a premium. Check your labels, people... most bottled water comes from the tap. You're paying for a label AND you're taking us one step closer to privatized drinking water. Can't see how that supports Canadian values.
  25. Mark H from Columbus, IN, United States writes: Isn't the lack of fluoride related to a number of serious conditions, too? Just sayin'.
  26. My sentiments exactly from Canada writes: The vast majority here don't want fluoride added to their water. It seems to me that those wanting a dose of fluoride in their water can simply buy fluoride drops and add it themselves to a glass once a day. We should leave the water supply as free of additives as possible. As Stude says,
    L'chaim.
  27. J Billins from TO, Canada writes: When selecting bottled water, always go for Spring Water, ideally in the big re-usable glass bottles.
  28. John E7 from Saltspring Island, Canada writes: I have well water - no fluoride other than naturally occurring. Its probably higher than regulated city tap water though. If fluoride is bad for us then yeesh I'de better reduce my toothpaste use ;)'
    Woody Allen had it right in his movie Sleeper. We will discover that chocolate eclairs will be the health food of the future...
    Science is not the establishment. Knowledge works against the status quo more often than not ;)'
  29. James Jones from Canada writes: So, sue them! Of course, since it is govt agents that have done this to us, we'd only be suing ourselves. I've been avoiding fluoride toothpaste since I can't avoid fluoridated water, I didn't want to overdose. Now I wonder, could the dental association be sued? The govt regulates where it shouldn't & fails to regulate where it should. I feel that any company doing business in this country should not be allowed, by law, to outsource jobs to foreign countries. Thats acting as a parasite.
  30. J Billins from TO, Canada writes: James Jones : There are laws in place to restrict suing government over thier public health efforts.
  31. Some Guy from Ottawa, Canada writes: Mandrake:

    No no, Jack. Not a bit of it. No, I'm sure they all gave you their very best. And I'm equally sure they all died thinking of you, every man jack of them, heh, Jack. Supposing a bit of water has gone off, eh? And certainly one can never be too sure about those sort of things. Would you look at me now. Do I look all rancid and clotted? You look at me, Jack, eh? Look, eh? And I drink a lot of water, you know. I'm what you might call a water man, Jack. That's what I am. And I can swear to you, my boy, swear to you, that there's nothing wrong with my bodily fluids. Not a thing, Jackie.
  32. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: 'But I have heard that drinking flouridated water will cause someone to start believing whats on FOX News. Any truth to that? '

    No, that takes half a bottle of Everclear and a dose of LSD. Repeat daily.
  33. Right On the Left Coast from Vancouver, Canada writes: I chalk this type of 'mob-science' up with concerns of having too many electric wires running everywhere. If flouridation were causing diseases, we wouldn't have 'rising rates' of the disease, we would have several generations of people without the disease followed by three (the ones since the sixties) who have said disease.

    Ask your dentist if it makes a difference. My hygienist says she can tell the difference between a Vancouverite and an Ontarian as soon as they open their mouths.

    As for you eco-fringe naysayers...enjoy your brown teeth. Thankfully science has prevailed on this one (and I grew up in a safely flouridated water grid during my formative years when it mattered)...
  34. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Dr. Demento: Thank you for the free counselling. Finally, I know what's wrong with me.

    Do you send your patients for deprogramming or reprogramming? Or do you just turn them in? Will the thought police be banging at my door?

    Sorry, I've never heard of Mellancamp. Must be before my time.
  35. D. Hall from Canada writes: 'Never heard of Mellancamp'!!!

    Damn, don't you have to be an adult to participate here?

    And I'm for scotch, no tap water, and tentatively favour floridation, but am open to new research - I don't see it as a 'no brainer'.
  36. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Right on the Left Coast comments: 'My hygienist says she can tell the difference between a Vancouverite and an Ontarian as soon as they open their mouths.'

    I'm impressed. Can she actually pinpoint the place in Ontario? (Some municipalities use fluoride, others do not.)

    Thank you for this example of 'mob-science'.
  37. A J from Canada writes: Gail C, I appreciate the link on flouridation, but please don't date yourself by admitting you've never heard of John (Cougar) Mellencamp! People over 30 don't listen to people under 30. ;)

    A J
  38. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: A J: Well, in desperation, I've just googled John (Cougar) Mellencamp. Judging from his bio, I think we might be soulmates.
  39. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Again to A J: P.S. Surely this counts for something.
  40. Ariel Mendlowitz from Toronto, Canada writes: This whole article struck me as fishy so I did a search to glance at the original article. I found something much more interesting. The following is a quote from a letter to the editor in the same issue of the journal, Cancer Causes and Controls, from another group of researchers at Harvard: '...readers are cautioned not to generalize and over-interpret the results of the Bassin et al. paper and to await the publications from the full study, before making conclusions, and especially before influencing any related policy decisions.' These researchers were unable to replicate the result found by the original paper... Obviously, we shouldn't take something like the increased cancer risk lightly, but it's aggrevating to see people who clearly have no or minimal understanding of science take something like this and use it as some sort of platform to intiate changes that would ultimately be detrimental to public health. Risk 20% more fillings to prevent cancer on the basis of what was appears to be quite unreliable research? Ridiculous. Reading articles like this make me wonder about taking the contents of the Globe and Mail seriously. It's a misrepresentation to people who don't have a basis to critically interpret the information presented. How will I know if things are accurate relating to topics that I'm completely unfamiliar with? and ps, Cindy Mayor and followers, drinking distilled water causes leaching of minerals you need out of your body. I highly suggest people don't start drinking demineralized water.
  41. gord wish from Canada writes: read the book 'seeds of deception' fluoride is a by product of the aluminum industry and this is the best way of disposing of it. why do you thyroid problems are so high because of the fluoride . it competes with iodine that is needed by the thyroid.
  42. CD W from coldwater, Canada writes: I KNOW recycling is a communist plot......................
  43. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Thanks, Gord Wish (can't help but capitalize), for your book recommendation, 'Seeds of Deception' by Smith. I'm in the process of reading 'Seeds of Destruction' by Engdahl on the hidden agenda of genetic manipulation. It doesn't mention fluoride in our drinking water, but I can see the two are intimately related.

    Both fluoride and genetically modified organisms were introduced into our diets, without consulting us or getting our consent. Critics of both are derided, and scientists speaking out against either have been ostracized and fired. In both cases, the very institutions supposedly protecting our health have allied themselves with corporate interests, so we, the people, are left on our own.

    We have to do the reading and research ourselves. There are plenty of books on both topics. Then we must become politically involved, holding the authorities to account. We have the right to know what goes into our bodies. We must take back control of our lives.
  44. NYS COF from New York, United States writes: Actually, there are many studies which link fluoride to cancer. A New Jersey Department of Health shows a higher amount of osteosarcoma in boys. The National Toxicology Program found rats fed sodium fluoride had higher rates of cancer including bone cancer. Drs. Yiamouyiannis and Burk found higher cancer rates in fluoridated cities after adjusting for important variables
  45. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: I await with bated breath Margaret Wente's rejoinder to all this - a column on the enormous health benefits of fluoridated water.
  46. Doris Wrench Eisler from St. Albert. AB, Canada writes: I remember having a discussion with a nurse on the subject of fluoridation of public drinking water when it was first initiated and she wouldn't hear of any counterarguments, as for instance, how it might affect the less robust, children or very light weight people, or varying water comsumption; Such a small amount must be OK, and the fact that the levels did have a positive effect on teeth and so might have deletrious effects as well was an argument she could not grasp. Again, we have not been well-served by those paid to do so. The fact that caries levels have gone down in Europe where water is not fluoridated but toothpaste is, tells the story. As with mercury amalgam, nobody is admitting anything, but the practice is being stopped or decreased.
  47. harry carnie from Northern, B.C, Canada writes: So fluoride(in drinking water) may possibly result in dying sooner?..........Aaah but think of what nice teeth you will have when you are lying in your box...better add in your will, you wish to be buried with a smile.

    Brain damage?(along with the effects of lead).....does that explain many of the actions of our politicians ?.

    As for me I drink (good) Scotch on the rocks.........OooooH but then
    the ice may be made from tap water.......alas ...doomed as well.
  48. jean janes from Canada writes: How I would have wished as a child to have fluoridated water and to have avoided all those dental appointments that terrified me!
  49. ryan kelly from Toronto, Canada writes: Well Jean Janes, if it is any consolation, perhaps you wouldn't be alive (or even intelligent enough) to reflect on those terrifying appointments. ;)
  50. Charles Murray from writes: This is a poorly researched and misleading article. The one preliminary study linking fluoride to bone cancer (in males only) has yet to be replicated. Dental caries can lead to serious health issues if left unchecked. We need to balance the benefits and risks of both options before rushing to judgement. BTW, the article is already posted on the UK Against Fluoridation website.
  51. Barney Panofsky from Vancouver, Canada writes: Charles Murray has it about right. A few more studies will probably bring some balance to this discussion.

    Of course these alarmists likely also have global warming on the brain. The media will soon move on to something else, Al Gore will spend his winnings lavishly, and the climate will do what it's always done, which is go through cycles.
  52. A J from Canada writes: Ariel Mendlowitz, I was waiting for someone dumb enough to spout that 'leeching minerals' argument from various parts of the internet. Look at the credentials of the supposed doctors trying to sell their product. Congratulations for falling for their tripe.

    This is a myth and, if you keep researching, you will find there is no scientific basis for it. The body will find its own balance of chemicals and minerals and a sufficient amout of clean water only helps this natural process. On the other hand, adding toxic elements such as chlorine, flourine, and the like that the body is not able to deal with or does not have the capacity to deal with is what will harm you. In this case, its other people doing this to us.

    A J
  53. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: Please, Old Boy from Kelowna. Comments like yours give The West a bad name. Have you even read the article?

    I was most interested in the four studies in China, mentioned in this piece, that found a strong association between water with high fluoride levels and sharply reduced IQs in children. As Gord Wish has posted above, fluoride is a product of the aluminum industry. We know from recent studies that patients who died of Alzheimer's were found to have had high levels of aluminum in their brains. Is there a link between fluoridated water and Alzheimer's? Has it even been studied? The enquiring mind would like to know.

    In the fluoride link I posted earlier (okay, I'll do it again: http://fluoridealert.org/bryson.htm), a prominent scientist was fired from the prestigious agency where she worked for finding a link between fluoride ingestion and lowered IQ. Her study was buried.

    There is conspiracy theory and conspiracy fact. I think we should look at the latter possibility.
  54. ROBERT DE KRIEGER from France writes: Anyone remember Gordon Sinclair? The old coot wasn't that crazy, was he?
  55. Joan Forsey from Toronto, Canada writes: Does fluoridated water really reduce cavities? One expert has pointed out that in Toronto, after 36 years of fluoridating water, the cavity rate was higher than in Vancouver, which had never fluoridated its water supply.

    This is according to Randall Fitzgerald, in his book The Hundred-Year Lie. The expert he quotes is Hardy Limeback, head of the Department of Preventive Dentistry at the University of Toronto, "who publicly apologized in 1999 for having been a proponent of water fluoridation."

    Limeback is quoted as saying that for half a century the well-intentioned dental profession foisted misinformation about fluoride onto an unsuspecting public and the result has been "a poisoning of our children."
  56. John Stanton from Canada writes: Only 2% of fluoridated water passes through people's bodies. The rest is used for washing, cooling, and so on. In short, most of the fluoride ends up in lakes, streams, groundwater. Fluoride is class 3 pollutant that would cost the fertilizer and atomic industries a fortune to deal with. Isn't it good for them we will take it off their hands and knit it into our bones and dump it into our watersources. If you speak to waterplant managers you will find they would like to be rid of it because of the handling precautions required when dealing with it.

    Fluoride was added to the food and water of workcamp inmates by the Nazis in WW2 to assist in keeping them docile. It has been demonstrated to affect intelligence, as can readily be seen simply by reading many of the comments on this forum. It's rat poison. Maybe some of the detractors here would like to quote a single welldesigned controlled study which supports their position that it is harmless. I defy them, because none exists.
  57. D K from Canada writes: " CD W from coldwater, Canada writes: I KNOW recycling is a communist plot......................"

    Well we have to build our tanks and fighter jets from something!
  58. Right On the Left Coast from Canada writes: Gail C:

    Since most of us I suspect have no intention of "clicking away" to these informative sites you're referencing for us, could you perhaps outline the "Flouride Conspiracy", including who "Big Flouride" consists of?

    Tobacco, asbestos, and DDT (add Big Carbon Dioxide here) have a good profitable reason to fudge science...is there really an analogy to be drawn here?

    As for your point about communities in Ontario...not all smokers die of lung cancer. Not all drunk drivers kill people. Are you saying the professional opinions behind the conventional wisdom that smoking and drunk driving kill are inaccurate? Were they inaccurate when the doctors (and police) knew what was going on, but there weren't yet studies to back them up?
  59. M. Brockington from Canada writes: Right On the Left Coast from Vancouver, Canada writes:

    Ask your dentist if it makes a difference. My hygienist says she can tell the difference between a Vancouverite and an Ontarian as soon as they open their mouths.

    ==============

    Probably true. And if you understood the article, you would realize it's because the Ontarians have a much higher incidence of mottled streaking on their teeth from fluorosis - not because BC'ers have a significantly higher number of cavities.

  60. Gail C. from Ontario, Canada writes: Right On: I have no desire to spoon-feed anyone, and suggest you do your own reading and research. Are you afraid that will interfere with your foregone confusions?
  61. Right On the Left Coast from Canada writes: Gail C - You've been quite happy to spoon feed us for a day. Why stop now when you have a captive audience? Can you outline who the Conspirators are?

    Granted there is a lack of contemporary data on flouridation. There are several professional societies who back its use. We also have in hand a tiny minority of detractors, yourselves included, and a single negative study that I can find so far on the internet.

    Lacking vast amounts of data, I fall back on intuition: Why would all of the dental societies in North America be ignorant? If not, why would they lie to me? Why would public health bodies embrace these harmful policies? Who profits from this deception ("The Toxic Chemical Disposal Lobby" sounds pretty weak, don't you think?).

    Until I see a answers to questions such as these, I see no reason to take an "I just watched 60-minutes and I'm scared" approach, Gail. It must be immensely frustrating for you that the bulk of voters who dictate what your water will contain feel the same way I do.

    But I concede the point...my conclusions are foregone, but it will take a wee bit more for me to call up my local water district (which I happen to work at) in a panic. Mind you, they don't fluoridate their water, but I'm sure it is only a coincidence that I'm the only one I work with who has white teeth. :)
  62. Right On the Left Coast from Canada writes: Out of idle curiosity, I wonder who has deeper pockets, the Flouride Lobby or the Bottled Water Lobby?
  63. Some Guy from Ottawa, Canada writes: Check the ingredients of the bottled water you drink....I think you will find them in bed already.
  64. Robert Lepage from Canada writes: You folks complain about fluoride, but I have yet to hear a complaint about chlorine! Chlorine causes cancer people, and the government KNOWS IT! Check it out people, trihalomethanes! Let's all send a letter to our mayors and get them to ban chlorine from out water! We should also stop them from using ozone to disinfect out waters, we don't want dead bacteria to be entering our system and residual O2! We should also stop them from using UV to kill off the bacteria, because then we would be consuming dead bacteria. I WANT PURE AND CLEAR WATER!!! I DON'T WANT IT DISINFECTED! I WANT TO DIE FROM TYPHOID! All sarcasm aside, I've taken a water quality management class from the environmental and chemical engineering programs at the University of Waterloo. What I am reading on this forum both shocks and astounds me. Some of you have the foggiest idea of what any of the water additives do and yet you have already vehemiently decried them as damaging your health, ruining your bank account, and the cause of the second world war. I don't know what to say, because I know that the majority will not take the time to actually read the literature and understand what's going on. Contrary to common know, you can teach an old dog new tricks, but you can't teach a stubborn ignorant human right from wrong.
  65. Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: 50 years of research shows that drinking fluoride is ineffective. So why in hell are we spending money on an ineffective measure? One that may actually cause health problems?
    On the pro-fluoride side: ineffective way to treat dental issues.
    on the pro-health side: some evidence of cancers, some evidence of damage to neural paths (fluoride IS a poison after all).

    Why are we allowing this practice to continue? Rather, why are YOU allowing this practice to continue. Where I am in BC, water does not have fluoride added. Yet teeth locally are just as good as anywhere in Canada that does add fluoride to the water.

    It has no advantages. It has possible serious disadvantages. Why are people still allowing this?
  66. Better to light a small candle than to sit and curse the darkness from Canada writes: It is for this reason and because the taste of bleach in my coffee and my drinking water makes it unpalatable that I oppose the imposition of a tax on botled water.
    CYMRO
  67. Right On the Left Coast from Vancouver, Canada writes: Robert LePage - your point, and your sarcasm, are both appreciated in this corner. Expect a flaming for your pedigree though. The John Mellancamp crowd will not be preached at by collegiates.
  68. harry carnie from Northern, B.C, Canada writes: Ooooh..... after reading these posts......WILL have a drink....of the usual (Scots whiskey) but will leave out the ice cubes....cannot be too careful ya` know.
  69. Gail C from Ontario, Canada writes: To Right On: Spoon-feeding you for a day? Thanks for making me stop and think about the time I waste posting on the internet. I always think I learn something from others. I hope, just maybe, they learn something from me.

    Now, to my "captive audience"... I'm not going to give away the gripping plot, so read for yourselves "The Fluoride Deception". The author, Christopher Bryson, a BBC producer, has spent ten years researching the topic, and draws on the findings of prominent scientists. As for some of the key players in this story, think the nuclear industry, the aluminum industry, PR firms, university institutes.

    Right On: Your book report will be due at the end of the month. Then we can have an informed debate.

  70. Micki Jacobs from Dayton, United States writes: For a nice, scientific overview of why this is a toxic practice:

    Why the EPA Headquarters Union of Scientists Opposes Fluoridation

    http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?f1c0dff9-1842-4ccc-b8bf-81922a560d5e
  71. Right On the Left Coast from Vancouver, Canada writes: Gail C: I think I'll watch a hockey game instead. My book reporting days are long behind me, and if my intelligence is artificially low due to childhood fluorine intake, there isn't much I can do about it now. Fight the good fight Precious!
  72. Gail C from Ontario, Canada writes: For you and others, Right On, I will.
  73. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: You know it's entirely possible for something to be wrong without it being a conspiracy. To me it sounds fairly convincing that newer better science may be showing that previous (entirely well-intentioned) assumptions about flouride in the water may have been mistaken. I know flouride is a fairly significant chemical that doesn't occur naturally in our bodies, so it doesn't seem unreasonable to keep examining it very closely, as one should with public health measures, to see a) if it's actually having the positive effect it was originally intended for, and b) if it's causing any unintended harm (whether common or rare).
  74. J. M. from Canada writes: It should be fairly easy to study how effective water fluoridation is at preventing cavities. Since there are large population groups in Canada which have treated water and those that don't, it should be straightforward to compare numbers of cavities in kids who have grown up with one of the two types of water. One would have to compare similar socio-economic groups and so forth but the results should speak clearly. If they are very similar, we should toss out fluoridation.
  75. s k from Toronto, Canada writes: Can the human body clear out flouride?
  76. Craig Hart from Canada writes: AMAZING to think that those living (and likely breathing) in southern Ontario would care about something as insignificant as fluorine in water. There are 100s of other elements and compounds that deserve far more attention. AND to suggest that communities are being "drugged"? Fluorine is no more a drug than chlorine, which apparently the conspiracy-mongers have no problem with. AND there are millions around the world that drink natural groundwater with those "elevated" fluorine levels.
    Emotional responses have no place in this discussion.
  77. john wardle from vcr, Canada writes: "...found a strong association between water with high fluoride levels and sharply reduced IQs in children.

    Some parts of China have water naturally rich in fluoride and the chemical was not deliberately added, as it is in Canada."

    Right on Canada lead the way in dumbing down our children.
  78. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: What you don't know won't hurt you. It will kill you. Bottled water is classified as a food product. Which means that it is not subject to the same controls and inspection as municipal drinking water. It would be educational to review the diffirence in what standards tap water vs bottled water is tested for. It is also useful to remember that 2/3 of bottled water starts out as municipal tap water. The rest is touted as spring water from assorted "country", aka rural, sources. Making it much "safer" than municipal tap water. Just one little detail to consider here. Spring water is ground water - originating from an aquifer. The same source as well water. Now, the main industrial activity in the country / rural areas is agriculture. Which uses very large amounts of pesticides. All of which are sprayed on the land. When it rains, these chemicals are washed into the soil and eventually end up in the aquifer, which feeds that spring. But Bottled Water isn't tested for all those lovely pesticides that are used in agriculture. It doesn't have to be. As for the issue of fluoridation, those opposing it are ignoring good old reality and facts. Flouride is not a heavy metal. Chemically, it is a close cousin of chlorine. And Bromine. And studies confirm that areas where tap water is fluoridated do have much lower levels of tooth decay vs non-fluoridated water. This is a good thing. Especially in the context of the amount of sugar in most of the processed food we eat. Chlorination and fluoridation of tap water introduces some marginal risks of cancer and possible other issues. At rates of thousandths of a percent. The alterantive to chlorination, or other srterilization methods is epidemics of water-borne diseases like typhus, cholera, assorted Salmonellas and E. coli related illnesses ands deaths. Like Walkerton. OOPS. Dang! That horrible science stuff that we all ignored in school is actually important and worthwhile. Who'd A Thunk It? Us GD Nerds - not so useless, after all.
  79. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: @ john wardle: Get a grip. Just take a look at the intellectual performance of us Canadians that were born between 1945 and 1970. Same period when fluoride content was highest. Funny how so many high achievers were exposed to those "intellectually stunting" levels of fluoride, isn't it? That arguemnt is an outright lie. The opponents of fluoridation are also outright liers. Ignorant and really stupid, to boot.
  80. Gail C from Ontario, Canada writes: Ever wondered where your fluoride comes from? Here's something hard to swallow:

    "Much of the fluoride added to drinking water today in the United States is actually an industrial waste, 'scrubbed' from the smokestacks of Florida phosphate fertilizer mills to prevent it from damaging livestock and crops in the surrounding countryside. In a sweetheart deal, these phosphate companies are spared the expense of disposing of this 'fluosilicic acid' in a toxic waste dump. Instead, the acid is sold to municipalities, shipped in rubber-lined tanker trucks to reservoirs across North America, and injected into drinking water for the reduction of cavities in children. "

    From: The Fluoride Deception. Author, Christopher Bryson
  81. Gail C from Ontario, Canada writes: Orest Z claims: "Studies confirm that areas where tap water is fluoridated do have much lower levels of tooth decay v. non-fluoridated water."

    Oh, what studies? Please give your source. ("Top of My Head" won't do.) I quote from the article at hand: "There are no national figures to show whether cavity rates differ substantially as a result of fluoridation". The article goes on to say that since the 1970s, there has been a steep reduction in cavity rates in all industrialized countries, whether they fluoridate their water or not. Europe does not, and has seen the same sharp reduction. (Martin Mittelstaedt)
  82. Canadian Old Boy from Kelowna, Canada writes: The anti-flouride mongers continue to whine with inaccuracy after inaccuracy! Flouride is the 13th most common element in the earth's crust. It occurs naturally in water in many places on earth as well as many foods - leafy plants, root vegetables and seafood and tea. It has an affinity for mineralized tissue - teeth and bone. For those who continue to perpetuate the lies about flouride, and anyone else who is interested, please read the authoritative document from the CDC found at http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5014a1.htm. This Globe and Mail article is far from objective and has not been subjected to the peer review process associated with scientific publication. It is full of lies and inaccuracies.
  83. Rollo Tomasi from Beaufrere, Belgium writes: I suspect that communities lucky enough to have flouridated water would have markedly fewer dentists per capita after several generations. For those with with poorer results, most are among the less educated and poor.

    It might be better to have the choice, iodised salt or not, flouride in the water or not. For the welfare of the poor and underpriviledged, society is better served with flouridated water, IMHO, iodised salt and milk fortified with vitamin D.
  84. Tom from W Queen W from Toronto, Canada writes: If there are any two words together that scream BS they are the words "prominent scientists". We read about the certainty of scientific consensus or prominent scientists only to read years later about their mistakes, ineptitude, or outright fabrications (HIV infection rates significantly cut anyone?).

    So please, if you must argue one way or the other, don't dress it up with the words "prominent scientists".

    You'll start to discredit global warming, sorry, I mean climate change.
  85. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: As a society we overmedicate people with 300% dosages every time they or animals in our food chain, such as dairy cattle, are given oral medications rather than topical or patch medications. It is a waste of limited money that could be better spent. Oral medications also help create widespread public hazards such as C difficile outbreaks by numbing the immune systems of patients even before they get ill, and now, with flouride, it is possibly creating grave risks for many. Surely flouride toothpaste ( with flourise as a topical agent on teeth) is a no-brainer. Everyone uses toothpaste so there is no valid reason to say that flouride must be in tap water. And, what does flouride to to our ecosystems? Likely, no one has bothered to ask. We must question our public authorities more and often to keep them on their toes.
  86. Gail C from Toronto, Canada writes: I cringe at the term "prominent scientists", and plead guilty to using it. But please, Tom from Queen W, what else should one say - eminent scientists, learned researchers, impeccable sources, unimpeachable authorities? Hoping for an answer before this disappears into the ether (not doubt contaminated by fluorine)...
  87. Virginia Crook from United Kingdom writes: Contrary to the anti-fluoride crowd's belief the addition of fluoride to drinking water is not banned in Europe and in fact it is up to the local water supplier to decide whether or not to add it to the supply. some do and some don't. One thing I do know though is this. Here in the UK dental treatment for children is free at the point of delivery, (Yes, I know it is diffficult to find an NHS dentist), and has been historically for years. The water is not fluoridated in most parts of the country and isn't in the greater London area and as a result much of the population that is now in their thirties and forties have the worst teeth in the developed world. Fluoride was not in toothpaste when they were children and it wasn't in the water and I see people walking around with very badly decayed teeth, small children who have to have many of their milk teeth removed due to caries and young adults with full sets of dentures because their teeth rotted away. No doubt some if it was due to diet but if you compare Canadians of a similar age with their British counterparts those who benefitted from fluoridated water and toothpaste have a full set of teeth. I'll take the fluoride anyday and I put my money where my mouth was and added fluoride drops to the water my thirteen year old son drinks, he has no cavities.
  88. Angus S Miskers from sunny Victoria, Canada writes: Fluoridated water has proven effective in reducing caries in repeated studies (http://quackwatch.org/search/webglimpse.cgi?ID=1&query=fluoridation). Fluoride often occurs naturally in the water table as well, and is a natural mineral in the environment. Fluorosis is a harmless effect of fluoride acting on dentin and enamel ... but it is unsightly. In my studies in dental hygiene school and my wife's in dental school, the medical community remains confident in the effectiveness of fluouridated water ... to a point. It is also accepted that forcing fluoride on everyone may plausibly amount to unfair exposure to unknown risks. Instead, the prevailing approach (esp in BC) in the dental sciences is to prescribe fluoride according to individual risk factors, if possible - eg children are more prone to caries as their teeth develop and thus can benefit greatly from topical or systemic fluoride tablets, in addition to F2-containing toothpaste. Healthy adults are not as prone to caries, and can get by with only the toothpaste, unless other factors are at work such as dry mouth - and can be treated with high-F2 containing F2. The worst cases of decalcification and caries among young healthy persons I see are those that foolishly use non-F2 'health-food store' toothpaste. The problem with this individualized approach is that persons whom do not see a dental professional may not be getting any F2 and suffer more serious forms of caries (eg rampant caries disease). These at-risk groups include first nations on reserves and street people. In order to help the most people, many in the dental community regard water fluoridation as a viable approach to helping these at-risk persons. OK - the above is stated with my professional hat on. I realize that we have to live with the fact that F2 water is on the wane, just as silver-mercury fillings are. I do believe that lack of F2 in the water here helps making money in the dentistry business.
  89. Maria P. from Toronto, Canada writes: I grew up with fluoride in the tap water and my teeth are completely mottled with Fluorosis. Sure it's harmless, but it's extremely embarrassing.
    The fact that I've never had a cavity is more likely due to genetics and good oral hygiene.
  90. jim Gower from Canada writes: G
  91. Tom from W Queen W from Canada writes: Gail, what I'm saying is that while there may be "eminent scientists, [and] learned researchers" but there are no "impeccable sources, [and] unimpeachable authorities." Scientific process and peer review provide some checks and balances, but, in the end, everyone needs funding and very few people get funding by saying "hey everything's peachy".

    By the way, does anyone know if filters like Brita end up removing fluoride?
  92. James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: The British have bad teeth, because everyone sucks on sweets constantly. Many people have false teeth before the age of 30.

    Excessive flouride causes mottling in young people as their teeth are growing.

    Flouride does absolutely nothing for teeth after they are fully in, about 18 years of age.

    Controlled amounts of flouride in pill form or topical application should probably be administered until about age of 14 to 18.

    Mass flouridation of municipal water supplies has potential dangers for the health of many.

    All this was and is well known and has been for years, by anybody who cared to obtain the information.

    I am not an eminent scientist, just normal bright person, with no axe to grind.

    The sheeple fell for the plebisites on mass medication of the local water supplies due to a vorciferous, shouting minority. Reason and facts were swept under the rug. Such is life in a a Democracy, big brother know best.

    Durgan.
  93. Critical Thinker from Canada writes: Gail C from Ontario, Canada -

    Nice story.
    Did you also know that some of the fecal matter from your neighbours butt could potentially end up in the glass of water you are drinking? (E.Coli)

    The concentration of Flouride is 0.6 - 1 ppm if you bothered to read the article. In sufficient concentrations anything can kill you.

    You drink too much water... guess what? You die of dehydration.
    No really, that is the ironic part: Dehydration from drinking too much water. Swallow that.

    Yes the psuedo-intellects like yourself jump to stupid conclusions, i don't blame you