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Push, push (and I'll buy you a pendant)

ANDREA ZOE ASTER

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:41 AM EDT 11/12/07

New dads are purchasing big-ticket items to thank their partners for giving them the ultimate gift ...Read the full article

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  1. EA S from Ottawa, Canada writes: I agree with Ms. Alonso. You've got to be kidding me!! The best gift my husband could give me, if we have children, would be to be with me throughout labour, and to be with me when we greet our child into the world.

    Geez....
  2. L M from Regina, Canada writes: There is so much wrong with the sentiments in this article that I don't know where to begin.

    First, childbirth is NOT agony, especially if you're fit and prepared for it. If you're not, there are epidurals. Give me a freaking break. Total cliche.

    Next, if you're husband is peripheral to the process, sadly, you've married a dud. My husband was integral to the process. He was my advocate, my coach, my support, MY PARTNER. We were totally in it together, through two unmedicated births, one of them at home. I didn't need a prezzie to know he 'got it'.

    And what's this 'giving him' a child business? What kind of 19th century crap is that?! Give him, my sweet aunt fanny. That baby is MINE.

    This article has to be about spoiled twits with more money than brains, hopefully a very slim slice of our society.

    Ow. I read it again and my eyes rolled so hard it hurt.
  3. whatevah D from Canada writes: L M from Regina, Canada writes: There is so much wrong with the sentiments in this article that I don't know where to begin.

    First, childbirth is NOT agony, especially if you're fit and prepared for it. If you're not, there are epidurals. Give me a freaking break. Total cliche.

    Um, L M, I agree with most of your post, but if you think childbirth is NOT agony, you're pretty lucky. I had back labour, with contractions two minutes apart from the get-go. That went on for 23 hours... and yes, I asked for the epidural, but due to a couple of emergencies at the hospital, I didn't get it until three hours later. THEN, it wore off, which it does for some women. For instance, I have a friend it didn't work for at all. And then, my baby had to be vacuumed out. For some women, it is agony.

    FYI, I never got a push present. Nor did I want one. I find the idea strange... but while my husband was my coach and partner through every second, he did feel helpless watching me go through all that pain.
  4. Keitl Gilbert from burnaby, Canada writes: In some circles it is the fashionable equivalent of a bucket of oats for the brood mare.
  5. whatevah D from Canada writes: Also, L M: I was as fit as possible. I walked a lot. Normally I'm a runner and I had grandiose plans of running and working out throughout my pregnancy. Unfortunately I had morning sickness for nine months straight...
  6. Silent Minority from Winnipeg, Canada writes: 'I expected one, and if Adam hadn't got me one, I might have been upset,' Ms. Halpern, 35, said. 'A push present says, 'I appreciate what you've given me, that your body was used as a vessel for this child.'

    I am very very happy I am not married to Ms. Halpern, this woman is forunately a very thin slice of society that has entitlement written all over it. I certainly feel sorry for her because she will go through the rest of her life expecting compensation for all bumps in the road.

    After reading this article I too had sore eyes, I bought my wife flowers, gave her a back rub when we got home from the hospital, put a hand on either side of her face, kissed her, looked her square in the eye and said thank you for our son, and thank you for being our son's mom. We are still together 7 months later so I am thinking she was ok with that 'push present'. This world never ceases to amaze me...
  7. CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: This is absolutely crazy. My wife and I have had 3 kids, and the only 'push present' she's gotten was a bunch of flowers. Oh, wait. I'm there everyday, before and after work, helping her with OUR kids. Maybe that's my 'push present'? That I'm a good Dad and husband?

    If she was afraid that I'd run off with another woman, maybe then she'd want a present, but seriously... the people in this story obviously have more money than brains. I know birthing is painful, I witnessed it, but I also know that the pain is gone in a heartbeat when the little one arrives!
  8. CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: Keitl Gilbert from burnaby, Canada writes: In some circles it is the fashionable equivalent of a bucket of oats for the brood mare.

    Very nice analogy! well done!
  9. whatevah D from Canada writes: CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: This is absolutely crazy. My wife and I have had 3 kids, and the only 'push present' she's gotten was a bunch of flowers. Oh, wait. I'm there everyday, before and after work, helping her with OUR kids. Maybe that's my 'push present'? That I'm a good Dad and husband?

    That's the best gift my hubby gave me. He even split the parental leave with me... And stood by me as I went through post-partum depression. worth all the diamonds in the world.
  10. CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: whatevah D from Canada writes:
    That's the best gift my hubby gave me. He even split the parental leave with me... And stood by me as I went through post-partum depression. worth all the diamonds in the world.

    Good to hear, I'm glad I was given that sort of response. I was thinking I'd get a female saying 'You're a male, and you'll never understand.' Thanks!
  11. Sleepy Head from Canada writes: @ L M from Regina - How nice that you think being fit makes for a non-agonising childbirth. If only it were true. I was fit and healthy, and still I had forceps and suction (and my son was a normal-sized baby!).

    @CHP 'Maybe that's my 'push present'? That I'm a good Dad and husband?'

    Yes, that is the penultimate push present (the ultimate being the child, of course). :)

    When will (these types of) women stop giving into materialism, expecting expensive tokens for every damn thing?
  12. whatevah D from Canada writes: Sleepy Head: Sleepy Head from Canada writes:
    When will (these types of) women stop giving into materialism, expecting expensive tokens for every damn thing?

    I don't even have an engagement ring as my hubby and I eloped... perhaps I should have demanded a push present after all;)
  13. Wandering Willy from Victoria, Canada writes: There are over 6 billion people on the planet so it can't be that hard.....
  14. whatevah D from Canada writes: Wandering Willy from Victoria, Canada writes: There are over 6 billion people on the planet so it can't be that hard.....

    really? have you done it?
  15. J S from Canada writes: LM: Yikes. All I can say is, lucky, lucky you. Is the child all yours, or do you share with your husband?
  16. Chris Keating from Canada writes: I cry each time the 'Entitlement' generation creeps more and mroe in to our society.

    I appreciate that child birth is one of the most difficult things the average human can endure, but isn't the commitment to raise and take care of that child what should really be focussed on here?

    Wouldn't it make more sense to put $1000 in an education trust?
  17. Sleepy Head from Canada writes: @whatevah D - Engagement ring? What's that? ;)

    We didn't elope, but I didn't get (or care for) a ring either. It's just a trinket, and the thing itself is less important than what it symbolises. Besides, why pay a couple grand (or whatever...I don't know anything about jewelry) for a ring when the same amount can go toward something practical, that both partners can use? e.g., house, trip, etc.
  18. bethany middleton from Canada writes: You've got to be kidding. This is ridiculous? 'compensation' for labour?

    If my husband really wanted to give me a gift - and he has - it would the gift of his time and commitment, his awareness of my exhaustion during those first weeks and months of new parenthood, his willingness to contribute to making the transition run smoothly (ie. cleaning up, washing dishes, getting up to be with baby for the tenth time in an hour, makiing dinner, rubbing backs), and his absolute dedication to the family and to his active involvement with it.

    In comparison with a lifetime of dedicated, committed, loving and generous parenting, labour ...or an expensive bauble, are nothing.
  19. GM DP from Niagara, Canada writes: To date, this is the most pointless and unintelligent article I have read in the G & M. Why was it written?

    Please, please, please stop promoting materialism, or demeaning the birth of a child by examining it from the perspective of socialites and their baubles and trinkets that they expect should come with it...give me a break...

    How did this article ever make it to print?
  20. carol c from Canada writes: The Globe and Mail is so very a$$ sometimes. Who the heck cares about some entitled up her own arse snob of a woman and her trinkets? I'd give her a push present, a push out the door or a heave in the arse.

    Is there any event that some nitwit doesn't think is an excuse to consume some more? Unbelievable.
  21. bethany middleton from Canada writes: LM glad to hear that you had an easy labour and that is due to your 'fit' body. Some midwives have suggested (from their experience) that being too fit can actually get in a woman's way during labour: the body's muscles are not able to relax and contract naturally enough. Be that as it may, many women have had incredibly difficult labours stretching across many days. And no, an epidural is not the answer...but that's a topic for a whole other thread.

    But I fully agree with your sentiment. This is a ridiculous thing.
  22. bethany middleton from Canada writes: ....on another note, there is some curious - and probably disturbing - link between the commercialization of Christmas and this article....is the average Canadian spending ca. $800/year on 'push presents'? This may be something worth considering....
  23. J V M from Canada writes: Never have I been as creeped out by a G M article as by this one. (They're usually at least silly and innocuous when not informative or interesting.)
  24. SingleDad TO from Hamilton, Canada writes: Yet another example of why some men are choosing to stay single and childless. Push presents? Come'on.....if I have to do that to show my affection for my partner and our new child, I may be with the shallowest person in the world and I would be pretty much incompotent at showing how I feel.
  25. Gemma Callaway from Canada writes: Wow, I'm surprised people are so disgusted by this, I don't see the big deal.

    Feeling entitled to a present is one thing (and not a good one) but I don't see anything wrong with a husband getting his wife a gift to celebrate the birth of a child and try to make her feel happy and appreciated for going through something that is often very painful and difficult. The only real problem would be men feeling pressured to do this and women feeling entitled to it... then its not really a gift.

    Of course the child and the husband's support are vastly more important, but if someone gave me diamonds on top of that I wouldn't complain.
  26. Reuben Bakker from United States writes: For those of you wondering about the point of the article, don't blame it entirely on the globe.
    This 'article' appeared on the ny times website a couple of days ago...
  27. whatevah D from Canada writes: Gemma Callaway from Canada writes: Wow, I'm surprised people are so disgusted by this, I don't see the big deal.

    Feeling entitled to a present is one thing (and not a good one) but I don't see anything wrong with a husband getting his wife a gift to celebrate the birth of a child and try to make her feel happy and appreciated for going through something that is often very painful and difficult. The only real problem would be men feeling pressured to do this and women feeling entitled to it... then its not really a gift.

    I think the problem is they do feel entitled to it.
  28. Mia Pinion from Canada writes: I agree with whatevah-and Middleton- and all the others who claim this is just another materialistic and commercialized way to try and show off...
    ' Look what I got!' says one new mom to the other... ' Oh yeah- well, mine is bigger!' brag brag brag!
    This just makes for pretty commercals on TV!
    Real love is spelled
    T- I -M -E not M- O -N -E -Y.
  29. Robert Bennett from Mississauga, ON, Canada writes: What in hell's name is coming next? PUSH PRESENTS !!! The act of childbirth has for thousands of years been a natural happening, and in most cases today is performed in a hospital with all the benefits of the progress in the medical field. How about a PAIN PRESENT for the thousnads of males who suffer from kidney stones. Ask any doctor and they will confirm that the pain and suffering involved is much greater than a normal childbirth. Having had two occasions of the STONES, passing some with the benefit of TYLONEL 3 tablets, and also the surgical removal of others, I can tell you it was hell to go through, but I sure as hell didn't expect any PAIN PRESENT for the experience. Also, there must have been a male participant at the time of conception - therefore the claim of one of the commenting females that 'THIS IS MY BABY' must have been a repeat of the Immaculate Conception.
  30. whatevah D from Canada writes: Robert Bennett from Mississauga, ON, Canada writes: What in hell's name is coming next? PUSH PRESENTS !!! The act of childbirth has for thousands of years been a natural happening, and in most cases today is performed in a hospital with all the benefits of the progress in the medical field. How about a PAIN PRESENT for the thousnads of males who suffer from kidney stones. Ask any doctor and they will confirm that the pain and suffering involved is much greater than a normal childbirth.

    Robert, what constitutes normal, in your opinion? I don't know too many women who had an easy time. Let's not make this a my-pain-was-worse-than-yours argument, and have respect for the pain SOME women deal with in child birth.
  31. Jeff Holmes from The Big Smoke, Canada writes: I suspect (hope?? pray!!!) that this article captures a small and anomolous segment of society – the same group that spends $1200 on Hannah Montana (the Globe) for entitled tweenies or $650 for the latest must have phone (also the Globe) for the teenage extortionist unit.

    Whatever happened to unconditional love? You know, the kind where parents are thrilled by the privileged of producing a healthy child or grateful simply to have each other with whom to share the rollercoaster of childrearing. Granted, childbearing can be arduous, but so can the responsibility of providing for the little bundle of joy for the next eighteen or twenty years.

    Perhaps we live with too much inward focus – too much “what’s in it for me.”
  32. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: This is one of the most ridiculous and, I think, tacky things I have ever heard. Having a child is a gift unto itself and both parents are rewarded by it. Biology determines women carry the babies...it is not a negotiable thing. Nor is it unique...we all got here the same way...
  33. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: Robert Bennett, just a question re: you kidney stones...was the dr. who told you they were more painful than childbirth a male dr.? One more question Robert...how many men die giving kidney stones to the toilet bowl? Just curious...
  34. Josie Waters from Toronto, Canada writes: With major, respectable newspapers like the Globe publishing articles like this, it's no wonder everyone thinks society is going to hell in a hand-basket. I guess you really need to push the edge -- to promote the indulgences of over-monied and self-interested young 30-somethings to the masses -- to sell papers these days.
  35. j wilson from Vancouver, Canada writes: You know what makes a nice push present?

    Heat and groceries.

    Ive got a lot to learn (and earn) to keep up with the Westmount set.
  36. Jeff Lee from Ontario, Canada writes: How being stabbed in the chest and piercing a lung - I think that hurts more than child birth.

    may 2nd, 2002. Will never forget that day.
  37. whatevah D from Canada writes: Jeff Lee from Ontario, Canada writes: How being stabbed in the chest and piercing a lung - I think that hurts more than child birth.

    may 2nd, 2002. Will never forget that day.

    sorry to hear it. I guess it depends on the child birth though... for instance, I know someone who burst their uterus, then suffered a blood clot and passed away...
  38. Sandra Guest from kitchener, Canada writes: Wow, I guess I got really lucky compared to these women. My husband actually gave me time, support and lots and lots of love. Believe it or not, he also gave this generous gift to all 3 of our children and continues to do so every day!!!
  39. L R from Canada writes: Meh. So many posters here act so repulsed, but would you really be so repulsed if your husband actually presented you with some diamonds or pearls? I think not.
  40. Peter The Not Quite Great from Edmonton, Canada writes: Honey you know I'd love to give you a push present but shouldn't we wait to see if the kid fulfills expectations?
  41. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm with the woman who commented at the end of the article. What a ridiculously shallow idea! A 'Push Present'? Was this invented by some retail giant to extract more cash from people? I would think the best push present ever would be your baby. Who would be able to focus on anything else. Geez, if you're going to upset over not getting some stupid bauble for your troubles, don't have a baby!

    It's one thing for a husband to want to do something special, but I would be far more grateful and touched if the house was clean.

    Just when you think the whole gift giving culture had sunk to its lowest level, out comes an article like this, no doubt engineered by some savvy PR professional, probably at Birks or Holts.
  42. K S from Recipro City, Canada writes: Actually L R, I'd turn up my nose at anything resembling a 'payment' for making the joint decision to bring a life into the world. The thing about silly shallow twits, is the same thing you notice about selfish louts, they think everyone in their gender classification is the same. Keep your diamonds, for my child is my pearl and you cannot buy it. Understand that and the child will be ours.
  43. Sleepy Head from Canada writes: 'L R from Canada writes: Meh. So many posters here act so repulsed, but would you really be so repulsed if your husband actually presented you with some diamonds or pearls?'

    Yes, I would. I am the proud non-owner of pearls, diamonds, and other trinkets that women stereotypically fawn over. And no, I wouldn't want a big-screen TV either.
  44. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: LR, I don't think it's so much that people wouldn't be repulsed if presented with material gestures of love, it's that the women in the article felt entitled to them...it's quite nauseating actually, as if giving birth was a means to an end - the bauble! It's so ridiculous, it's actually quite funny. I can just imagine the show and tell over lunch or maybe high tea while the nanny looks after the baby.
  45. Politically Incorrect from London's Burning, Canada writes: Now we know where today’s kids get their &8220;gimme, gimmies&8221; from, from their moms at birth. And why do we insist on using the word &8220;partner&8221; instead of the correct word husband, wife, boyfriend, or girlfriend. To most people the word &8220;partner&8221; is a codeword to disguises the sex of the significant other during a conversation, not the person you married. Forget this political correct nonsense and call your wife, husband etc. for what they are.

    http://www.capc.co.uk/viewsandcomments.htm
  46. Politically Incorrect from London's Burning, Canada writes: 'I expected one, and if Adam hadn't got me one, I might have been upset,' Ms. Halpern, 35, said. 'A push present says, 'I appreciate what you've given me, that your body was used as a vessel for this child.'

    Forget prissy mizz here. Mrs. Halpern you have got to be one of the most selfish women I have ever had the misfortune to read about. You and your husband are in a marriage together for each other, not for what you can get out of it. What inducements do you offer your husband for being there for you when needed?
  47. whatevah D from Canada writes: Politically Incorrect from London's Burning, Canada writes: Now we know where today’s kids get their &8220;gimme, gimmies&8221; from, from their moms at birth.

    The dads are just as bad... for buying them.
  48. Heidi Solberg Viar from United States writes: I agree with a lot of the sentiments above. What selfishness! I agree with Ms. Alonzo...the child is the gift, and it is for the parent(s) to enjoy. I wouldn't give my husband a child--we would create the child together, in love, raise the child together, and send it off into the world together (at least, we hope). I do not believe I am entitled to a diamond anything for giving birth. However, if my husband felt differently and surprised me with something...no, I wouldn't refuse it. But I'm certainly not going to demand it like a spoiled child.
  49. Anuradha Bose from ottawa, writes: What a bunch-the expect payment and they get payment for giving birth-is there no end to materialism?
  50. Critical Mass from Canada writes: Can someone pinch me ?
    Slap me hard.

    Is this reality ?

    Am i just dreaming ?

    I don't know anymore.

    Someone help.
  51. Politically Incorrect from London's Burning, Canada writes: It is a sad testament to the times we live in when everyone has a price that must be paid to share someone’s love or to enter into a lifelong commitment. Mizzzzz prissy here should have thanked God for the gift of her newborn child, as she received the greatest gift that he can give. In her mind she thinks...'let me see a subservient husband and trinkets, or a newborn child and good health and mutual happiness for all three of us&8230;hmmm&8230; what is more important?' Let's go shopping.
  52. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: 30, 35, 34, 37...says alot about Gen X now, doesn't it?
  53. CD W from Canada writes: dont worry, you will be paying for something, perhaps a new car for her lawyer down the road.
  54. anonymouse Z from Canada writes: Politically Incorrect: The word 'partner' is used because it brings married and un-married couples at the same level of commitment. There is nothing wrong with that. What is wrong is the attitude shown by the ladies in the article and their men for giving in. And there is nothing wrong with equalizing the gender while we are at it.
  55. Jeff Robinson from Vancouver, Canada writes: Good work rehashing the NYTimes story: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/06/fashion/06push.html

    It only spent 4 days on the most e-mailed list (currently no. 7 on the last 7 days popularity page).

    Is it just me, or are half the stories in the G&M's Life section inspired by the NYTimes? It's one thing to acknowledge the NYTimes as setting the national news agenda, but the Life section?
  56. Jennifer Rollison from Canada writes: Critical, I'd like to slap you for your 'whore' comments...what a great guy you must be...
  57. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: Peter! hah! that was very good...
  58. G L from Canada writes: I don't see anything wrong with celebrating the birth of a child with a gift. It doesn't matter whether that gift is flowers or diamond earrings - to the recipient, either would be just as special. While I think I understand the vehemence against extravagant gifts in some of the above postings, I'm not sure it's justified. Different people, different cultures will celebrate in different ways. No one should feel pressured to buy an expensive gift, but I wouldn't look down on someone that did either.
  59. Kate Vic from Victoria, BC, Canada writes: Reading this article made me metaphorically ill...what may have in the past been a special heirloom-like gift is now another spoil, a trapping of materialism...'the little blue box'. The logic is dangerous and women who buy into this appear to have 'transactional' relationships...vessels indeed...strange, brave new world....
  60. C T from Ottawa, Canada writes: this fashion just shows how stupid people are: women to degrade themselves in asking for the 'push gift' and then boast of the supremacy of their status as birth givers and being superior to men etc etc etc; and men letting themselves fooled by the modern women. but then again, there is a price to pay for stupidity... so let the happy dads pay!!! i hope the humans will (eventually) learn that having children is suboptimal and excessively expensive, and stop wasting their time and 'resources'. and so, we hope to rid the Earth of this disgusting species called . HA-HA-HA.
  61. NR Connor from TO, Canada writes: Women should negotiate their 'push prize' before the big day, and they should refuse to push if they don't get what they want.
  62. Eileen Herbert from Canada writes: I wonder if these moms could tell me what the appropriate present is when a full term baby is stillborn . The mother involved still had to go through labor . All she got to do was pick out the dress her daughter would be buried in and the music for the funeral service . M. would have walked through hot coals to be able to bring a baby home .
  63. CD W from nice small town, Canada writes: My favourite thing is to listen to uber larded housewives telling each other about the next life stone they are getting in their rings. Lose the pounds and you wont need to widen the ring for the cubic zirconia.
  64. C to the D from Toronto, Canada writes: 1. Yes I did my my wife a push present - a Coach Diaper Bag.
    2. Yes it is ABSOLUTE North Toronto bullsht.
    3. No it won't stay that way. Was introduced to my circle of friends by a couple who had moved up here from Manhattan, and ran through the wives like pink eye at a daycare. All you guys who live outside Toronto? Forget about it - it's coming for you. You're screwed too.

    C.
  65. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Even the name, 'push present' is a little gross.

    I find the suggestion that women are having babies as gifts to their husbands to be offensive. Isn't becoming a parent a joint decision between two adults who both want a baby? The idea of rewarding women for the pain of childbirth is also odd. A woman with a lower pain threshold is somehow more deserving of expensive jewellery than one who can tolerate the pain of childbirth. Maybe I'm just not as materialistic as some people, but I'd choose to open an RESP for the new baby over an extravagant gift to 'repay' me for giving my husband a child.
  66. Critical Mass from Canada writes: I love Globe's Life section.
    I know what is wrong with society when i read it :)
    Then i will know to do the opposite.
  67. NR Connor from TO, Canada writes: Critical Mass from Canada writes: I love Globe's Life section.
    I know what is wrong with society when i read it :) ...

    ============

    Hey, don't overlook 'Style' -- there's always plenty of lunacy and depravity there too.
  68. A Big Black Dog With Two Tails from Leduc County ex St. John's, Canada writes: The woman who wrote this is not on the G&M's staff. She's a stringer who's work generally is in marketing. From the tone and conetent of this article, it looks like she might be on some kind of retainer from DeBeers.
  69. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: Fair is fair...seems to me if women are to get 'push presents' for pushing the baby out, then women should be giving their partners 'push' presents also for their efforts in creating the baby. Men need to get with the program and start demanding 'push' presents of their own. What's in those vessels didn't get there by virgin birth.
  70. Samual Williamson from Calgary, Canada writes: My wife loves pregnancy, and immediately after the birth of our first she announced she was ready for the next one. Completely natural pregnancy and delivery. We are now 4 weeks pregnant with our 3rd and I am in the process of locating camera accessories to celebrate the pregnancy. She was given a camera for each of the first two pregnancies. A few weeks post delivery has been the arrival of a new car, this trend probably won't continue for number 3. These items are not for her pain or suffering which honestly if you have that opinion about pregnancy and labour, don't have kids, they are not fashion accessories. I am there throughout the pregnancy and delivery as well so no comments there. These gifts are to celebrate the arrival of a new family member and to be able to record their lives.
  71. Critical Mass from Canada writes: Trish Taylor from Canada -

    Men's present is that they get the privilege of:
    1) Having sex with these gorgeous women in the prime of their life
    2) Attending to every whim and fancy of these royals
    3) Being in the very presence of these supreme examples of human species
  72. Sue W from Canada writes: Wonder how many of these women also expect a 'sex present'?
  73. Homer Gibson from Canada writes: ....
    And what present did the nanny get as the baby was handed off the first time it cried or pooped????
  74. Bill MacLean from Canada writes: Hey! I saw a program last night on the television where a young man went out and got HIMSELF a very elaborate tatoo to celebrate the birth of his son. I have no idea what he got his wife....
  75. Carl White from Canada writes: Sounds like some businessperson is trying to create another gift-giving 'obligation' to cash in on.

    If you're having a child, wouldn't it make more sense to take that money and invest it for the child? To help with their college education, for instance?
  76. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Whateveh D, The article states, 'push presents have become the posh new way for dads to compensate their partners for the agonies of childbirth.' According to that statement, some men feel the need to 'compensate' their partners for undergoing the pain of childbirth. This suggests that the expensive gift is related to the agony or pain experienced during labour. Not every woman experiences agony during childbirth. Are the ones who can tolerate the pain of labour without feeling agony somehow less deserving of jewellery? Like I said in my earlier post, I find the whole concept of rewarding women for the the pain they endure during childbirth to be odd. I don't believe my post mentioned anyone feeling ashamed because of their labour experience. To be honest, I'd feel more ashamed to demand an expensive push present for 'giving' my husband the ulitmate gift of a baby.

    I'm happy that your baby is healthy now. I hope you're doing better, too. It sounds like the whole labour/post natal process was pretty tough for you.
  77. whatevah D from Canada writes: Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: A woman with a lower pain threshold is somehow more deserving of expensive jewellery than one who can tolerate the pain of childbirth.

    Not sure what you mean by this statement. Where in the article did it say that 'push presents' are being presented to women with a 'lower pain threshold.'

    High or low pain threshold, if you've had a baby, you've had a baby. You shouldn't have to feel ashamed because you found it more painful than someone else. And yes, the idea of push presents is ludicrous. My baby was whisked away to the NICU when he was born... all's i wanted was for him to be healthy. Which he eventually was.
  78. John Silverman from Canada writes: Great, just what we need, even more reasons to go consume a bunch of stuff we don't need. Spend $1000 on diamonds instead of putting the money towards your child.

    Seems very anti-feminist to me, as if the child is a 'present' from the wife to the husband, instead of a human being who is equally shared by both. Stupid.
  79. whatevah D from Canada writes: Chrissy, I guess I think that most women (from my experience anyway) do experience pain... it's not necessarily that they can't 'tolerate the pain' as you say, but that they perhaps had a more difficult experience. My point is that your comment some women can 'tolerate the pain' suggests others can't. In any case, my baby and I are doing absolutely terrific. He is the light of my life.
  80. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Whateveah D, I agree that pain is part of the labour experience of every woman, myself included. I don't think they should be "gifted" for experiencing pain, and I do think that some are able to tolerate the pain better than others. If that wasn't the case, every woman would request every pain management option available. I know women who have their babies at home with just a midwife and no medication (something I wouldn't recommend in case of complications--but I'm a worrier.) I know others who've decided way before labour even starts that they want an epidural because they don't want to feel anything. I'm not a medical professional, but I'd say that's an indication that they can't tolerate pain. I think that different individuals have different pain tolerance levels.

    This is somewhat off topic. I originally mentioned the pain aspect because the article brought it up. I still think the reward for labour, no matter how bad it gets is a healthy baby. A piece of jewellery as compensation for giving a man baby is a bit tacky in my opinion.
  81. whatevah D from Canada writes: Hi Chrissy,

    I agree that this wasn't the point of the story. I think the writer just used the words "agony of childbirth" but didn't mean to say women who can tolerate pain are excluded. In any case or scenario, push presents are ridiculous.
  82. Adrian Cristescu from Kitchener, Canada writes: I used to hear alot of "you give me this.. you give me that .. I love you" from someone I currently refer to as "the ex".
    My wife is trying to get pregnant currently, I took over almost all of the house chores, I clean up the house, I cook, I wash the dishes, I handle the finances, I drive her around, and I do it because I love her and I want to help, so she can get more rest, she tends to get tired faster these days and also the emotional stress (what if something is wrong ...) tends to affect the quality of her sleep .. hence the need for all the support.
    When will have a child I intend to buy her the most beautiful bouquet of flowers I can find and then step up even more in my efforts to help raising TOGETHER the child.
    GM encourages such materialism in our society .. who pays for these articles anyhow ? I know I don't want a subscription to GM ..
  83. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: More hypocrisy from women. Guess what ladies, society has many of these "entitlement" events that drive materialism. Some good examples: the wedding ring and Valentines day. It isn't enough that somebody commits to spend their life with you, you need PROOF that you will be a couple. Ditto with valentines; is there a reason why I need to get gouged by paying $100 for flowers plus whatever else on a yearly basis?

    Yes, I realize that some of the posters here don't have a ring and such, but I assure you that you are in the very small minority.

    I agree that this push present thing is in bad taste, but ultimately it is up to marketing on whether it becomes the norm or not.
  84. Critical Mass from Canada writes: Adrian Cristescu - I think you are being exploited.
    Contact some "Male Rights" groups....

    oh that is right, we don't have any.......
    Feminism is not about equality at all, these days anyway.

    Oh and Adrian, i was just joking... drawing parallels between a female who would b!tch that she has to take care of the entire house....and then talk about feminism.

    To women: If your partner does not help out at all.... and is a pig like homer simpson, kick his nuts and move on.... what is stopping you?
  85. whatevah D from Canada writes: RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: More hypocrisy from women. Guess what ladies, society has many of these "entitlement" events that drive materialism. Some good examples: the wedding ring and Valentines day. It isn't enough that somebody commits to spend their life with you, you need PROOF that you will be a couple. Ditto with valentines; is there a reason why I need to get gouged by paying $100 for flowers plus whatever else on a yearly basis?

    Yes, I realize that some of the posters here don't have a ring and such, but I assure you that you are in the very small minority.

    No, I don't have a ring, and we don't buy v-day presents for each other. We don't even by Xmas presents for each other; we tend to spend it on our house. Maybe I'm in the small minority, maybe not. Point is, you shouldn't use the word hypocrite lightly.
  86. Michelle Posner from Toronto, Canada writes: I find it humorous that all these people are commenting about how outraged they are by the sentiments of a fictitious individual. I am they person referred to as Michelle Halpern. Halpern is not my last name and I am certainly not the person as represented in this article. I am a feminist with every fibre of my being and would never take on my husband's last name. It is fascinating that what was presumed to be a fluffy innocuous article (I agreed to be in it as a favour) could take everything I stand for and turn it on it's head. The article was loaded with erroneous facts (not to mention my name) and the quotes were taken out of context and manipulated to spark outrage. I was presented as a classist, materialistic snob from Forest Hill. Materialism has never been my defining characteristic.
    Silly people, don't you know you shouldn't believe everything you read?
  87. whatevah D from Canada writes: Michelle Posner: We are not "silly" for believing that a newspaper is giving us facts and quoting people correctly. Sure, misquoting happens but it's supposed to be an abberation. If what you say is true, the writer should go back to journalism school.

    So, wtih all the "erroneous facts" are you writing a letter to the editor and demanding corrections?
  88. ELM now from Toronto, Canada writes: I received a present with each of my children. I remember a couple of friends received jewelry. I don't remember anyone comparing their presents. I took it to mean something celebratory. Not as compensation. I don't think I would accept compensation for having a child for my husband.

    As for the child being the present. Of course. But not everyone falls in love with their baby the moment they're born. My kids grew on me one day at a time. Initially, they were strangers. Now I can't imagine life without them. But at the time I was confronted with a newborn I expected love at first sight and didn't have that. Just a lot of fear.

    As for pain, medicine has yet to officially gauge pain. They can only measure according to what people report. This can vary from person to person in large degrees. Try googling different words about gauging pain. You'll mostly find more information on doctors confusing trying to rate pain.
  89. britney magledusha from toronto, Canada writes: you all are so silly. if "michelle helpern" but also in the above article said she was mis-represented. even if she wasnt why do you all care so much. if husbands want to buy it or do buy it for whatever reason why do you all care. you're all just upset that you dont have a husband that would get you one. we dont know her inside life or how it happened for all i care teh person that wrotte this articel was silly to. who cares about other peopel's lives. just be happy with what you have. if we all belive what every newspaper articel said that's just stupid. one micght say the world is ending tomorrow at 1;30 the other says 5:15 teh other ones says no its not ending at all. which would you beleive. be more media alert or your teh ones people are going to call silly. you all care just a little to much about what other peopel get and do with there lives. care about your own damn lives for a change.
  90. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: oh, silly us Michelle. We read an "article" in a national newspaper that is supposedly intelligent, and bears no resemblance to the National Enquirer, and figure the people in the article are real. I figured it was a PR piece by DeBoers. If we're silly for thinking the person represented was real, then you're just as silly for assuming whatever you said would be taken in the proper context, ie not twisted on its head...then again, how do we know you are who you say you are and not some stupid troll? Guess we'll never know, but it's still a stupid piece about a stupid trend that stupid people continue to fall for.
  91. David Guy from Canada writes: Michelle, I wouldn't brag too much about being a "feminist with every fibre of your being". I'm also wondering who to believe here, you or a national newspaper.
  92. You Know from Toronto, Canada writes: Me thinks the only people who do this "push present" thing are the disgustingly rich, who have miserable lives, and probably are incapable of showing real love towards each other. Plus, I'd bet any money that half of these guys are giving these gifts because they are making up for the fact they are cheating on their wives. Just a hunch. Money can't buy love.
  93. NR Connor from TO, Canada writes: Michelle Posner (Halpern) did you or did you not say the words in this quote from the article? ...

    "I expected one, and if Adam hadn't got me one, I might have been upset," Ms. Halpern, 35, said. "A push present says, 'I appreciate what you've given me, that your body was used as a vessel for this child.'

    "Let's just say that a dinner out would not suffice as a push present for most people."

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