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EU accepts compromise proposal

GEOFFREY YORK

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:41 PM EST 14/12/07

European Union's decision brings contentious talks on new global warming pact closer to resolution ...Read the full article

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  1. David Simon from Canada writes: 'Vague'. 'Suggestions'. Good. At least our economy is safe. Now all the delegates can fly out of Bali and get ready for the next conference place to fly in to.
  2. J Billins from TO, Canada writes: As long as they use all the 'green taxes' they collect to fly around the world and not to prop up corrupt banks and wage illeagal war, who can complain?
  3. bob london from Canada writes: It does not help Canada when Dion and his Liberals did nothing for 13 years. Now it is catchup without killing the economic opportunities for those under 45.
  4. stretch from yonder from Canada writes: Its simple...........

    mother earth doesn't care where the pollution comes from.......its affects are global!!!

    Yes, China and India are emerging economies with many many people who deserve a better life, BUT how does this math make any sense..........two huge populations with exploding economies are going to easily replace any reductions made by other countries and I predict unfortunately that by 2020 global emission totals will be higher than 2007

    They have to be included in a 'global agreement', not an agreement to satisfy the self serving intellectuals at the UN...........who claim to know best for everyone..........yet their inability to grasp the concept of 'global impact' is incomprehensible.

    To the future.
  5. Red Fox from Canada writes: stretch from yonder from Canada writes:

    'BUT how does this math make any sense..........two huge populations with exploding economies are going to easily replace any reductions made by other countries'

    It does because I (IPCC) say so.
    Really...
    1 1 = 500.
    We use special math at IPCC.
    You see where I am going with this.

    Thanks for taking the time to read my comment.
    Good Day
  6. Red Fox from Canada writes: Treachery!!
    The comment board wont allow me to put the PLUS sign ( ) <-- can you see the Plus Sign there ?

    Anyway I meant to say:

    1 PLUS 1 = 500, in IPCC's Mathematical System.
  7. b mac from Canada writes: It's kind of disgusting the way the environmentalist keep derailing any real progress governments might be able to make in these talks in Bali. Witness the money spent on polar bear costumes?
  8. Rona Baird-Zundel from Arvida, Canada writes: Given the intractability of the US and Harper's hiding behind the skirts of the US, India , Japan and Micronesia(or any country unwilling to entertain even variable limits), the EU was right to compromise for now. By next November, Bush will be out, hopefully, Canadians will drive the Harperites back into the primeval lagoon, and new governments will take over. These will put the health of the citizens of the world and their offspring before the share performance corporate donors.
  9. martha stewart from Canada writes: Great photo of those Oxfam folks in polar bear suits with this article on the World page. But I can't tell if they're smiling or not. Guess will need to read this article more carefully.
  10. F/A josquin from van, Canada writes: heh bob london, the point is-----no one did anything anywhere.

    the other point----conservatives were dragged ,kicking and screaming into this.
  11. Red Fox from Canada writes: I think the Chinese bribed them to bash Canada using the free Bear costumes, and other items. !!!

    Lets have a public inquiry!! :D
    You know I bet these 'environmentalists' were give like 10 bucks and told, show up on Friday, we will give you some free snacks, food, and cool costumes to wear and dance around in.

    I know I would take that offer. :D
  12. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Anyone here remember WoodstocK?

    The Bali-Kyoto freaks look just like the peace love dope wackos from woodstock. There is no rhyme nor reason to what they are doing... It is cold outside... so what is this crud about warming.... it is over.... it is freezing.

    It is about UN taxes to fund socialist causes... Not with my money.
  13. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: It has to be warming to have global warming..... So what does your thermometer say? mine says it is cold.

    BOSTON (Reuters) - New England dug out on Friday from a record-setting storm that dumped 10 inches of snow on Boston, more than the city typically sees in the entire month of December.

    http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~rjh/halifax/halifax-weather-ll.html
  14. martha stewart from Canada writes: F/A josquin - You're right! They did nothing. Just reached the same conclusion. It says:

    'Witoelar's proposal... his draft 'Bali Roadmap' would not guarantee any level of binding commitment by any nation.

    On developing countries, including such big emitters as China and India, the draft would instruct negotiators to consider incentives and other means to encourage poorer nations to voluntarily curb growth in their emissions.'

    All they did accomplish were shake hands, a comprehensive review of the fine cuisine and refereshments, and an agreement to meet again in Hawaii. Apparently need to be on a warm beach to monitor seal level rise.
  15. al woodward from Canada writes:
    Two weeks in Bali all expenses paid. Tough gig.

    How about Winnipeg or Moscow in Feb for the next one? Yea--right.
  16. martha stewart from Canada writes: Bob ImamI writes: 'It has to be warming to have global warming..... '

    No Bob, cooling is also a sign of global warming. Everything is. That's what the deniers don't understand ;-)
  17. William Borlase from Canada writes: Come to think of it, the Bali 'envirofest' does look like Woodstock's 'lovefest. How long is the party going to last? How loose are Bali's drug laws these days? Let's hope they all mellow out for a few days now that the world is not going to end right away.
  18. martha stewart from Canada writes: Oops - Typing/editing too fast in 9:59 post.

    Should be 'hand shakes' not 'shake hands' as written...

    'refreshments' only has three 'e's

    And 'sea levels' not 'seal levels'

    Must be the heat.
  19. George Hall from Canada writes: It is a phenomenal challenge to deal with a planet destroying economy. An economy that is dependent on growth and mass consumption...Is this not a conundrum?
    The United States under George Bush has absolutely nothing to contribute and similarly Canada under the Reform Party guys. Preston Manning was oblivious to environmental issues when he founded the party.
  20. Red Fox from Canada writes: I hear a lot of people saying Canada should show leadership, and lead not follow.

    I for one agree, Canada should show leadership by not attending any more meetings and stop supporting this farce entirely. Think about it, it will save 12 trees. That's right, i used a certified 'hippie' calculator to calculate this. I think saving 12 trees is more important than going to another meeting, eating shrimp and doing nothing.

    In fact if all the 77 leaders had stayed home, we would have prevented emitting an amount of CO2 equivalent to the amount fixed by (12 X 77 = ) 924 trees over 80 years...

    Wow... we are killers...
    BOYCOTT IPCC.
    SET AN EXAMPLE CANADA.
  21. Andrew Burke from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bob Imami, delusional as always.

    Note the word 'global' in 'global warming' ... I realize this may be confusing for you .. but it's all about global trends. isolated, localized or even national exceptions mean nothing, because they're just that --exceptions-- to a global trend.
  22. Red Fox from Canada writes: Oh P.S.
    I forgot something,
    the 12 trees is a one way figure...

    So the actual number of trees whose carbon 'fixing' efforts we have effectively wasted is 924 times 2 = 1848.

    But wait, a lot of uninvited people also went... so about 2000 trees.
    We have effectively made the lives of 2000 trees pointless, by going to BALI.

    Good job envirocrites.
    HEHE, Pot Smoking Dopes.
    Lets hope mother Earth gets pissed off at these dopes and blows the volcanoes when they meet in Hawaii.
  23. Red Fox from Canada writes: If you are gonna be planting trees this summer, forget it.
    Unless you are planting 2001 trees.
    2000 trees' lives have been wasted by IPCC's farce.
  24. J Law from Canada writes: Who caused the ice age? And do all those volcanoes under the ocean floor, are they caused by global warming? Ahh, so many questions and no answers . . . well, answers based on solid irrefutable evidence.
  25. Farm Boy from Big City, Canada writes: I decided to get out the old text book just to see what was the conventional wisdom forty years ago. Physical Climatology by William D. Sellers, University of Chicago Press, 1965, has a chapter entitled Paleoclimatology and Theories of Climate Change. At the end of the section devoted to the carbon-dioxide theory (p. 215) it concludes: 'Thus it appears that for carbon-dioxide to play a major role in climatic change, its atmospheric concentration must vary by one order of magnitude from an ice age to an interglacial age. There is currently no evidence which suggests that such large variations actually occur.' Offered for what it's worth!
  26. Paul B from Vancouver, Canada writes: Note to Climate-Clowns: GO GET A JOB.
  27. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: I invented a carbon neutral power source.. no joke.

    The perfect carbon neutral power source isn't a perpetual motion machine but is pretty good... here goes. I give it to the world free of charge.

    1) I have invented a machine that absorbs CO2 from the air and converts it into stored chemical energy. It is powered by the sun. It works automatically.
    2) the machine can be later switch to heat mode whereby the perfect chemically stored energy converts the chemicals to heat and to CO2 but only as much as originally absorbed.
    3) the heat is used for propulsion, or simple heating, or to make electricity.

    I tested it... it took me years to make it. This is no joke.

    I am totally serious.
  28. Red Fox from Canada writes: Thank You, Farm Boy.

    By the way, an order of magnitude means 10 times.
    For anyone who wasn't sure.
  29. Red Fox from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada -

    I will give you a million emission credits for it!!!
    HEHE
  30. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Red Fox .. I am 100% serious.
  31. Kim Feraday from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bob Imami

    yer ejacated buddy agane. is stil warem weres i is. 30C. is hot is that mean glowball warmen here not there?
  32. Basser Basser from Canada writes: So let me summarize the brilliant thinkers here. 1) some think it's great that we don't have a concrete agreement. 2) Some truly believe we don't have Global warming ( this is scary)3) Lots think a photo of Polar bear suited people are what environmentalists are about. 4) Several poke fun at the whole process. Nice eh?. We are talking about having a very in-hospitable World for the little kids you see daily getting off the school bus, and this group here thinks it's Kinda funny, and generally, not to be taken seriously.. Very nice, very nice indeed
  33. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Hi Kim. You lie.

    http://www.cita.utoronto.ca/~rjh/vancouver/vancouver-weather-ll.html

    It is freezing there... it is 100 degree-days below average in Vancouver for the past month. Sorry, but I don't talk with liars.
  34. George Hall from Canada writes: The world is in dire need of leaders who can resolve this economic/environmental crisis. Pretending it does not exist will not make it go away.
    I bet the solution will involve basic guarantees of living standards.
    If we just got off the pathetic dependence on the automobile
  35. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Basser... I don'T believe in the Global Warming religion. I have invent a solution for it though and I am not joking.

    The perfect carbon neutral power source isn't a perpetual motion machine but is pretty good... here goes. I give it to the world free of charge.

    1) I have invented a machine that absorbs CO2 from the air and converts it into stored chemical energy. It is powered by the sun. It works automatically.
    2) the machine can be later switched to heat mode whereby the perfect chemically stored energy converts the chemicals to heat and to CO2 but only as much as originally absorbed.
    3) the heat is used for propulsion, or simple heating, or to make electricity.

    This is no joke.
  36. Randall SEMRAU from Vancouver, Canada writes: Why are we considering CO2 reduction anyhow, when there has been no meaningful lower atmosphere temperature change since 1998, and the upper atmosphere has not warmed anywhere near what the Computer models say it should be, assuming' CO2 is the culprit' ?

    I'm missing something here.......
  37. Red Fox from Canada writes: Where is Eric Cartman ?
    He knows how to take care of Hippies.
  38. Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada writes: martha stewart from Canada writes: Bob ImamI writes: 'It has to be warming to have global warming..... '

    No Bob, cooling is also a sign of global warming. Everything is. That's what the deniers don't understand
    ---------------------------------------------------
    I suppose my computer virus, Sept 11 and my hemorroids are signs of global warming too.
    Do you understand the term global WARMING!!
    Oh I forgot, when you can not prove it you call it 'climate change'.
  39. globefan EH from Canada writes: Dinosaurs rule on climate change..no doubt at all.

    Men once walked the earth at the same time as the dinosaurs 6000 years ago or was that 75 million years ago, according to a fundamentalist religigion theme park in the USA.

    Don't send fundie politicians to do the work of scientists, the scientists actually know better on this one.
  40. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: I don't believe that CO2 is the culprit either... but notwithstanding that I have a solution. No more increased CO2.

    This is not a joke.
  41. Red Fox from Canada writes: Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada -

    Buddy,...
    martha is the biggest anti-hippie here.
    She was being sarcastic.
  42. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: I am amazed... I am serious about the solution....
  43. Red Fox from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada -

    I have a solution too.
    And i own the patent rights for it.
    I am going to become rich !!

    In your face loser. :D
  44. Basser Basser from Canada writes: George Hall. Sometimes I want to believe that the science is wrong and that it's all BS. Because I have young children and I wish for them to have a safe and healthy environment. So, I want to believe that it's all BS, like some of the 'deep thinkers' here. Because I am very skeptical about all the countries and major polluters ever coming together to fix things in time. Unfortunately people can only think of disasters as something like an explosion or a Tornado or Hurricane or Earthquake or epidemic ( Gee, we have had lots of them lately eh?). But as far as something coming , accumulating, like smoking, or lifestyle, or environmental disaster. They take a while, so, the 'deep thinkers' wake up in the morning, they are still there, Heck there's even a bit of snow on the ground, so,, all must be well. Sad but true
  45. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: .Red Fox... You B@5T@rd!!!...Foiled again....

    pssstttt I'm not joking.....
  46. Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada writes: Red Fox from Canada writes: Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada -

    Buddy,...
    martha is the biggest anti-hippie here.
    She was being sarcastic.
    ---------------------------------------
    SORRY Martha, I did not know.
  47. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Martha... I really did invent a sun plus CO2 = CO2 plus useful heat machine. It creates no net CO2.

    I am surprised you didn't conjure this up.
  48. Red Fox from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada -

    Who said i was joking.
    My solution.....be prepared......I will reveal its name.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    It is called, the 'iRedFox Super Tree'
    It might look like a normal maple tree to you, but it is 'Red Fox' certified. $1000 / each. Want one ?
  49. Basser Basser from Canada writes: J Luft. Hey your back!. Probably gone for awhile for some socialist paid surgery for a poor lifestyle eh? And quoting Porn style insults. Maybe you haven't been gone... Just watching different types of things on the computer?
  50. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Red Fox..

    You G D evil monster..... you did scoop me son of a bbb!!!!

    Ok... I admit it.. you beat me to the punch....

    Although mine was the ImamI Spruce..... works all year round.... heh heh.
  51. Red Fox from Canada writes: Basser Basser from Canada -

    Do you also believe in bigfoot, and loch ness monster ?
    I am not trying to patronize you, I am just wondering.

    I thought Global Warming was real, in 2006.
    The summer of 2006 was the warmest i ever experienced.
    2007 summer was milder and here we are ... coldest Winter in 15 years.... its just a roller coaster. Unpredictable.

    Tell me, where have you SEEN evidence of Global Warming. How has it affected your life, i would like to know.

    Thanks.
  52. Red Fox from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada -

    Sorry my friend for stealing your punch line ;)
    I had no doubt when i read the solar stored chemical energy, what you were referring to.

    ImamI Spruce, hmm almost sounds like a legitimate name :P
    I think you should contact Al Gore, and work with him to cash in on this idea :P.

  53. mike sty from Canada writes: launching of the 'Bali Roadmap'
    -----------------------

    Secret Code for 'Highwaytohell'

    Time to take the keys from the hillbillies from the west who believe eminent citizens (Encana) has more credibility than International scientists who study climate change.
  54. Red Fox from Canada writes: Jim Shepherd from Peru -

    LOLL.
    That was so blunt and to the point sir.
    I am obliged to you for making me laugh out loud.
  55. Chuck the Canuk from budville, Canada writes: why are comments on the important stories always closed at the globe and mail, yet stuff like this we can tap all day about??? mulroney, conrad black, and ANYTHING to do with minorities, indians, muslims, are always closed. why bother to have a comment area if you are going to not allow comments and censure anything said. multiculturalism is nothing but a fake, thin veneer that barely covers the simmering problems we have here, and they will explode if the majority keeps getting pushed aside. so much for free speech in canada.
  56. Red Fox from Canada writes: im Shepherd from Peru -

    I can't stop laughing.
    LOL

    Man what an abrupt answer.
    Red Fox <3 you.
    http://www.wildernessclassroom.com/www/schoolhouse/boreallibrary/animals/photos/redfoxkitsmall.jpg

    It sucks that i cannot use HTML.
  57. Randall SEMRAU from Vancouver, Canada writes: For anybody who wants a real eye-opener on the socialist agenda at play, visit Ozzie John Ray's 'Greenie Watch'. Amazing, depressing, infuriating !
  58. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Ironic how growing a tree and burning it down is carbon neutral and totally solar powered.
  59. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: For those environmental activists who have been bad mouthing the Canadian government please take note:

    United States, India and China the cause........but I know you will want to spin it otherwise and not for the sake of the environment, but for partisan political purposes.
  60. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Loch ness and Bigfoot would be more in the Domain of the 'deep thinkers' out here
    As for seeing the effects. I live in southern Ontario and we have had warmer and warmer, Actually pathetically hotter summers since the 1980's, with the odd ( very odd) cooler summer thrown in for the Deep thinkers to Bark about. My son has Asthma, quite severe and we deal with that. Smog days have increased dramatically to the point where my son has difficulty through much of the summer month. I work as a Physiotherapist in a Local Hospital and regularly do Chest Physiotherapy on people that are having trouble breathing because of the pollutants out there. It's always worse in the summer and when the air quality is poor. Some, quite a few actually die, and their deaths can be partially or mostly attributed to the environment. I at 44 have changed my lifestyle the past 5 years because I find the outdoors very difficult to deal with 8 months per year and I am an exercise type. So.. I don't know. I definitely feel that I am seeing the effects of at least bad air and most likely Global warming. I get a little pissed at people driving around in 8Cl vehicles with one person in them going to the store 6 blocks away. I have 2 vehicles. One is parked now with the insurance removed. I walk to work 40 minutes 3 times per week. I was a past professional motorcycle racer in the 80's but have sold my most recent dirt bike because I don't want to be part of the problem anymore... So.. You tell me wise one.. Do I believe in Big Foot or Lochness?
  61. sean wood from vancouver, Canada writes: Who funded all the excellent polar bear costumes and signs that were used to garner as much camera time as possible and at the same time, appeal to man's most maudlin instincts? I would suggest though, that all the polar bears should have been carrying a little baby harp seal. There wouldn't have been a dry eye in the house. Not much was seen of Dion Kyoto though, except for his photo-op with the Goreacle. Is it possible that he and Svend (diamonds) Robinson donned polar bear suits and joined the festivities? In other G&M news the IEA (International Energy Agency) reported that world demand for oil will rise by 2.1 million barrels a day in 08. Now that's an inconvenient truth.
  62. Red Fox from Canada writes: R. M. from Regina, Canada -

    As a Red Fox from India, i would like to say that India will never appease you foreigners. I'm Indian, they don't appease us Indians...

    Democracy in India is a farce, I lived there, I know.
    Don't expect anything from the Indians, you've been warned.

    As for the Chinese my excellent Chinese friend tells me what the PolitBuro of China really cares about. It doesn't matter which delegate you talk to, if its not someone from the PolitBuro, it is guaranteed that nobody will give a sh!t. You can believe otherwise, if it helps you sleep at night.

    As for the USA, they are the greatest hypocrites on Earth. LOL.

    Even if Canada did sign Kyoto (or its new name from now on: FakeItO) it wouldn't have made a difference.

    Thanks to self loathing Canadians, and Quebec undercutting federal authority, Canada was made into a convenient scapegoat!.
    Good Job.
  63. Behind Space from Canada writes: LOL Bob ImamI, you have to be my favorite poster here =) Absolutely hilarious. I guessed the tree bit a few posts back but I didn't want to spoil it for you, you looked like you were having fun.

    Well, global warming will end in one of two ways.

    1) We let it happen. The earth will just shake us off as another failed species.

    2) We fight bak against the b!tch. We arm every man, woman and child with a nuclear warhead and have them fire randomly into the air. The resulting nuclear winter will cancel out any global warming effects and life shall go on.
  64. Little Debbie from Concord, NH, United States writes: 'George Hall from Canada writes: The world is in dire need of leaders who can resolve this economic/environmental crisis. Pretending it does not exist will not make it go away.
    I bet the solution will involve basic guarantees of living standards.
    If we just got off the pathetic dependence on the automobile '

    George: You sure you don't live in Cambridge, MA? I coulda swore I saw you yesterday, riding your bike through the snow. When you skidded and fell down twice, you really made me laugh. But what was the most fun was faking a skid and crushing the back wheel of your stupid overturned bike while you were over on the curb brushing ther snow off. Idiot socialist environmentalist.
  65. Brent Raby from City State of Toronto, writes: The Flat Earth Society is stepping out tonight, big time.
  66. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Little Debbie... I bet your missing a few teeth eh?
  67. Red Fox from Canada writes: Basser Basser from Canada writes:

    I definitely feel that I am seeing the effects of at least bad air and most likely Global warming

    That is enough, stop there.
    No one denys smog and air pollution.
    It's hard to deny it when it swirls menacingly over the city skyline...

    Global warming != Air Pollution (Not Equivalent To)

    Dear Madam,
    Please examine your post.
    Everything you said relates to air quality. Not Global Warming, you have been led to believe the two are somehow related they are NOT!

    CO2 does not affect air quality negatively, unless a room is filled with it, in which case you asphyxiate. Kyoto is mostly about reducing CO2.

    Yes, when those idiots with 8CL, 300 HP trucks and SUVs drive around they are emitting many noxious fumes like NOx, SO2 and CO (Carbon Monoxide). Although modern cars have come a long way, it doesn't make sense driving around alone in a 8-seater SUV.

    Yes it is certainly a good thing to shut down Coal fired plants and drive smaller cars...however you don't need a rubber stamped paper to do that.

    Tell the passer-of-the-buck McGuinty to shut down coal plants....he is such a flip flop.
  68. Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada writes: To all lefties-common sense deniers:

    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002

    You can not say there is concensus within the scientific community. That is what the UN wants you to think.
  69. Red Fox from Canada writes: Basser Bassrer -

    If you got bored, here is the main point from my post:
    'Yes it is certainly a good thing to shut down Coal fired plants and drive smaller cars...however you don't need a rubber stamped paper to do that.'

    Why did McGuinty criticize Harper, did his buddy Dion tell him to do that? When are the coal fired plants in Ontario being torn down ?

    Coal fired plants are utterly FILTHY.
  70. siren call from Canada writes: Brent Raby from City State of Toronto, writes: The Flat Earth Society is stepping out tonight, big time.
    .........................

    No kidding.

    The last few stories on Bali and climate change in general have resulted in the hijacking of these threads by the slow witted, urging one another on to increasingly vulgar posts.

    Glad I'm on the other side of this issue, or I'd have to keep company with such brain dead and truly vicious posters (nice bike story there, American contributor).
  71. Little Debbie from Concord, NH, United States writes: Basser Basser: No, got all my teeth, thank you. I'm right wing, which means I have a functioning cerebral cortex, and can think and act for myself, unlike pathetic lefties who parrot the socialist/environmentalist party line, and can only resort to petty insults.
  72. Basser Basser from Canada writes: RED FOX. I do beleive the Automobile plays a very very significant part in Global warming, as well as smog. I am aware the two are differant. But to separate them is decieving. You curb one, you curb the other. And you can't curb one with out the other ( sounds like a song). And did you miss my point about hotter and hotter summers and warmer winters. This apparently is factual, and bad for the health of the environment, and of course us. So to say hey your actually talking about pollutio and not Warming is misleading to people. The way to deal with one is by dealing with the other
  73. Red Fox from Canada writes: Sam Ruisser from Richmond BC, Canada -

    Wisdom always triumphs in the long run!
    I applaud the National Post!

    It is to be expected from an actual 'authoritative' Newspaper :)
    HEHE.
  74. Joseph Freeman from Vancouver, Canada writes: You know what is really sad about all of this is there is plenty that can be done to limit CO2 emissions. Some countries have done it.

    The technology exists, and it can be improved upon. This has never been about lowering anyone's standard of living or causing financial harm or harming people.

    It's all about having the fortitude and willingness to make changes, from energy companies to governments to individuals.

    I just don't understand what all this derision and name-calling is about. I think well of people on the whole but there is a sad lot here tonight. A handful of countries watered down an international agreement this week, and shamefully Canada was among them. It's a sad day for Canada. Maybe that's why there is so much derision and bitterness here.

    Since when did - and the US - become nations that define themselves by what they aren't capable of instead of what they can achieve?
  75. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Behind....
    thanks..

    Credit to my kids....We we mocking the Global Warming religion a couple of nights ago....and we began a brainstorming session. My son, said... Geese dad... they found out that trees metabolize CO2 into cellulose 200 years ago...and its solar powered!!!

    We laughed, ate some meat, and idled the F250 for an hour.....then we checked the thermometer... yup it was still cold.
  76. Basser Basser from Canada writes: National Post?. Still in print?. Conrad Black's Paper isn't it??
  77. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: martha stewart:-- Hello martha. Somewhat off topic. I happened to catch McLaughlin Group this evening. One of the discussions revolved around which Democratic or Republican candidate would best be able to 'deal' with the other G8 leaders. Of course, Mr. Harper's visage was one of the eight shown in the grid of photos on the display. And, of course, there was no discussion as to which would actually still be in power at the point that Americans were making their decision at the polls ;-). At one point, Pat Buchanan made the comment that only Mssrs Sarkozy and Putin were formidable and that the rest were (just) technocrats, bureaucrats, or politicians. Which of the three labels did Pat apply to Mr. Harper???
  78. Basser Basser from Canada writes: JOSEPH FREEMAN.. Here here. I am on the same page.
  79. Red Fox from Canada writes: BAsser : RED FOX. And did you miss my point about hotter and hotter summers and warmer winters.

    I urge you to read my second post, made shortly after the first one.
    'Why did McGuinty criticize Harper, did his buddy Dion tell him to do that? When are the coal fired plants in Ontario being torn down ?'

    Ontario does not need Kyoto to shut down its FILTH emitters. Neither does Alberta.

    2) I urge you to read this:
    http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=164002

    With an open mind. This is not about you or me, and our ideas.... I am not opposed to AFFIRMATIVE action. IPCC are just a bunch of hacks...

    3) Warmer summers and winters -- It is part of the natural process.
    But this is a loop, go back to 2) read it. We cannot stop Climate Change or reverse it. Now read on... we can adapt.
    Kyoto is not about adapting.

    Thanks
  80. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: I wonder how many new carbon emitters will be born 9 months after the protesters' polar beer splash & dash tonight.
  81. Red Fox from Canada writes: Basser Basser from Canada writes: National Post?. Still in print?. Conrad Black's Paper isn't it??

    .... I overestimated your intelligence.
    Never mind.
    This is about your ego, and not the planet.

    CUTTING CO2 EMISSIONS IS IMPOSSIBLE, IF HUMAN POPULATION KEEPS INCREASING NUMSKULL.

    Never mind.
    It's lucky we have Mr.Harper as Prime Minister.
    Canada's fortunes will go down the drains if Dion ever gets elected.
  82. martha stewart from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada writes: 'Martha... I really did invent a sun plus CO2 = CO2 plus useful heat machine. It creates no net CO2.
    I am surprised you didn't conjure this up.'

    Hmmm. Maybe not, but I think I just threw another log into one of them? No net CO2, and plenty of heat, especially from solar energy stored as birch.
  83. Brent Raby from City State of Toronto, writes: Little Debbie:

    What's the scoop in New Hampshire?

    Barack or Hillary?
  84. Basser Basser from Canada writes: RED FOXX. No thanks on the conflict of interest paper you quote from. As for natural process. OK, I think your wrong and most scientist I think are with me, Now keep thinking.. If there is a natural process and we have to adapt.. so be it. But are you actually saying the human race plays no role??. And should the human race not slow or reverse it's role??. That's what Kyoto and beyond is about the human part. And We are the biggest part of the problem.. Medieval warming period?? Ya Maybe.. Medieval warming with 6 billion people driving cars and spewing crap.. Anyway you want to part the hairs... that's a major problem and we better deal with it
  85. Basser Basser from Canada writes: BRENT RABY.. I'm doubting Little debbie knows what a vote is
  86. Basser Basser from Canada writes: HMM Y2K.. and Global warming.. linking the 2?? Your right.. Time for you to go to bed. And Retrded... well ain't that a slice of educated speak to seal your exit// Nice
  87. martha stewart from Canada writes: diane marie - PM Harper is a bureaucrat and a politician and has technocrats working for him. No matter who the Canadian PM was, I doubt if Pat Buchanan would call them 'formidable.' Its just Canada eh? Mr. Sarkosy is only 'formidable' now because he's the new poodle while Mr. Putin, who is indeed a technocrat, bureaucrat and brilliant politician, really is 'formidable' with a country behind him to match. Wonder if Bush missed that when he looked into his soul?

    P.S. Imagine what Mr. Buchanan would have said about Mr. Dion? I'm guessing it would remind us of what President Nixon said about PM Trudeau, at best.
  88. Basser Basser from Canada writes: RED FOXX . NUMSKULL?, Retarded?, Chump change? And... Your a supporter of Harper.... Who would have known??
  89. Pragmatic Pundit from Calgary, Canada writes: Attempting to compare climate change with y2k is misleading as over 300 billion was spend on prevention, there were still some problems and it was a change that need to occur as 2 year digits is not practical in any long term record keeping situation.
  90. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Matha Baby.. Teams for country leading? Harper and Mulroney... vs Trudeau and Dion... I'll go with Trudeau Dion myself. I think history will paint Harper in a similar light to Mulroney. And that ain't in our Top 10 PM's. I do believe however Trudeau would be a top 5 .. So I'll take the Nixon Ferry
  91. Red Fox from Canada writes: Basser -

    You do realize that with each post, you make yourself look stupider.
    Have you ever in your life read literature? Do you know what an analogy means? Do you know what 'common sense' is?

    Thanks,
    Good Bye
  92. fuzzy bare from Ontario, Canada writes: George Hall... The world does have leaders that are admired. In a recent Angus Reid Global Poll, the most admired leader was our prime Minister, The Right Honourable Stephen Harper. The runner-up was Chancellor Angela Merkle of Germany. It appears that Canada's position on the environment will be very close to the final agreement that will be reached in Bali. Doesn't that convey a stronge message of Mr. Harper's acumen. No pie-in-the sky-Koyoto, just an inclusive pact between all countries, including the big polluters such as China, India and the USA. It doesn't make sense to give China and India a licence to pollute, simply because they are 'developing countries'. World pollution knows no borders. China, at present is responsible for four times the pollution we create in Canada. If we compare Canada and China, where Canada cuts pollution by 50% and China's pollution increases by 50%, the combined pollution increase would be 20%. Consider that China is firing up a new coal-fired plant every 7 to 10 days. Industry and sweat shops require electricity to manufacture toys and clothes. Evidence of the carbon pollution from China shows up in BC and affects the weather. Just imagine China having the Olympics in an industrial area, the atheletes may need to wear masks and carry oxygen tanks. China is a wealthy country with many citizens living in poverty. Communist ruled nations do not have a history of distributing wealth evenly, there are the elites and the poor. Our beloved pollution warriors would have 'developing countries' not required to cut pollution or even limit the increase. The developed countries can decrease pollution and the world pollution increases, because the 'developing countries' economic growth and pollution are in step. More coal-fired generating plants to supply the electricity for manufacturing plants. If we are to control and decrease pollution, it has to be a combined effort by all nations, no free loaders.
  93. Awash in Cash from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Since we are supposed to talk about the article and NOT what we watched on PBS tonight, let me point out the following from the article:

    'For years, the rest of the world has sought to bring the Americans into the framework of international mandates.

    At this point, however, many seem resigned to waiting for a change in White House leadership after next November's election.'

    Okay, now somebody find a presidential candidate (I don't care dem vs rep) who would have agreed to the EU's original demands.

    Nope. Nada.

    Also a friendly reminder--

    Rudd from Australia, who got TONS of great press here (eg Bush-puppet Howard is gone, here comes the post-Bush revolution, etc), now finds himself agreeing with Harper on the key points about major emitters.

    Remeber when Layton was braying about how he wanted to emulate Rudd's success in Canada??

    Go for it, Jack. Demand that India and China sign on to binding 2020 targets just like everybody else.

    Putz.
  94. martha stewart from Canada writes: Basser Basser writes: 'I work as a Physiotherapist in a Local Hospital and regularly do Chest Physiotherapy on people that are having trouble breathing because of the pollutants out there.'

    This explains much. You live in a big polluted city which sounds, from your other info, like Toronto. No wonder you think the world is so bad. But the vast majority of Canada is nothing like Toronto or the other big cities. And it does not require an international treaty and some new globally bloated bureaucracy to address that problem.
  95. Basser Basser from Canada writes: RED FOXX. TWO degree's buddy. That ain't grade 6 like yourself. I doubt you even know what CRITICAL APPRAISAL is, my right wing uneducated friend. You actually started off tonight trying to sound pseudo educated, but alas.. you couldn't keep it up.. Ran out of 3 syllable word's after your 5th post.. OH well ...Good night
  96. martha stewart from Canada writes: Basser - Tag team match... Joe Clark and Kim Campbell versus John Turner and Paul Martin... with Day and Dion as the towel boys in each corner. Queen referees. Let's get ready to rumble... off into historical oblivion...
  97. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Martha,

    I figured....you'd see right through it.
    I bet I could get a grant from the
    UN if I word-smith it a bit.

    I'll just grow a tree farm and buy a wood stove.
  98. ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes: Bali.... A wonderful place for a holiday but it's impossible to get away from the smell of smoldering rice straw mixed with garbage!!
    Garbage fires are everywhere in Bali!!

    Yes and it's easy to talk and set EMissions Targets even although THEY ARE IMPOSSIBLE TO MEET.............Except by three routes NONE OF WHICH, TODAY, ARE POLITICALLY POPULAR.

    (1) Population reduction of double the CO2 emission reduction needed. Double? yes, rising standard of living equals rising CO2.

    (2) With Carbon taxes,regulation,rationing and travel restrictions,
    force the Canafian Economy down to a stone age level.

    (3) Damn safety and go 100% Atomic energy.

    One day, but not in my lifetime, the core heat of the earth will be tapped for clean energy.
  99. Mike Hawk from Edmonton, Canada writes: marth stewart, the worst team here would be Dion and Trudeau, or Brisson and Svend,

    maybe Hedy Fry and Olivia Chow?
  100. George Hall from Canada writes: Debbie girl... I bet you are no where near as right wing as I am.....but if there is no environment there will be no right wing at all... there will be poverty for all....and thats it....
  101. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Martha. I'm not from Toronto, and I have a Global outlook. I was responding to a poster who asked for my personal experience on This topic. As for your thought. I believe if you look at weather and Air pollutant reports for all cities in Canada, North America.. The World. ( Go to weather Network) You will see that Pollution and Warming is a problem. So I'm thinking Big here not Local. abouyt 80% of us live in citie and that is growing. So.. I think no matter which city your in.. You gotta deal with this. WHO and Health experts now say COPD ( LUNG Disease), will surpass all other forms of chronic disease and be the highest causer of death within 25 years.. currently 3rd highest. I have seen 3 month old babies and 85 year old Adults dieing and die of LUNG illness caused by the environment, I wish I could bring some of the brick heads for a walk with me at work sometime and let them see it. It is an absolutely horrible way to die, and the pannic, and the Gasping, the just wanting a good breath.. and then your gone.. Sounds dramatic?? I can assure you.. it's really dramatic..
  102. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Stewart.. I'll actually take Joe on that one... Surprised?
  103. Joe Gopher from Canada writes: Higher oil prices will reduce consumption of gasoline,no?
    Why then was Layton braying about reducing gasoline prices?
    Shouldn't we be rejoicing when the price of oil goes up?
  104. Basser Basser from Canada writes: MIKEY,, Buddy 1) not a LIB.. 2) I said good night to the poster I was replying to because he was signing off. I know it's hard keeping up.. But focus... focuss .....focusssss
  105. The Oracle from Caiman Islands, Canada writes: Harper and Bush share the same history page again!
  106. Basser Basser from Canada writes: MIKE HAWK SaYing I am a Lying Liberal Scum. Ah yes.. a Conservative I suppose. I recognize the upper crust educated speak.
  107. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Mike.. That's why they stole it.. Because you were an easy target. Now.. Get back to School and finish Grade 3. Then Harper can put you on the Education portfolio... I'm thinkin.. ah Spelling Department, or PMO communications
  108. George Hall from Canada writes: I think it is a stretch to compare India and China to developed economies...the people in these countries hardly have a light bulb in their homes.
    How much pollution per capita is the operative.
  109. Basser Basser from Canada writes: This HAwk Guy is a bit of a snore. Good night.. ( Oh and Mike.. this time it actually means I am signing off.. not saying good-bye to someone else)
  110. Basser Basser from Canada writes: NOw Now boy's Jealously and envy will only make you Card Carrying members of the Conservative party.. Aspire to more
  111. George Hall from Canada writes: Using India and China as an excuse is not valid. thought has to be given how to maintain a prosperous life , without being dependent on mass consumption.
    The environmental crisis will force the entire planet to co operate......the world has never seen communication and travel linking all of humanity as it does today.
    We can almost look at the entire planet as one big country. United we stand ..divided we all I am afraid to say.
  112. P.M.'s Office from Ottawa, Canada writes: Good job Mikey. Stephen is proud. 2 brown envelopes.
  113. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: martha stewart:-- Actually, none of the three. Ideologue, with main ideological views semi-hidden behind the visage/mask of the moderate/reasonable politician. Only those of low-IQ/easily manipulated don't see the real ideologue. In my humble opinion.
  114. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Globe: it is okay, you can close this thread now. Still, must say it is good to see these vulgar posts from M. Hawk. I say 'good' because it means CPC is still trying to do the impossible (get a majority) and is still trying to do that the only way it knows how- by stifling others. M. Hawk has to be a CPC troll; that makes him a loser already. But for heaven's sake, if he was actually an independent, that would make him twice the loser! And M. Hawk: your man lost out really badly this week on two fronts. Sorry to all sincere posters, but this thread was really pathetic, apart from posts from d-m, b-b and a few others.
  115. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: 'It's a question of justice and humanity,' he said. 'We cannot afford to allow our development to be stalled or reversed.'

    Of course he has no problem if our development is stalled or reversed. How kind.

    Luckily for Canada there was an agreement to avoid hard caps for emissions by 2020.

    Not that I don't think Canada can't make deep cuts in GHG emissions. We can and we will. However Canada can't guarantee to meet the cuts the EU was asking for by 2020. What if it takes until 2023? I know the answer...billions in hot air credits. Great some poor country gets money and our GHG emissions still aren't any lower.
  116. Mervin Hollingsworth from Saskatoon, Sk., Canada writes: PRIME MINISTER HARPER WINS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!

    The usual suspects will yammer away but most ordinary Canadians know that an international agreement that excludes the major emitters i.e. China, India and the U.S. is doomed to failure. If we are serious about global climate change everyone has to take an interest and committ.
    Now on the domestic scene that is another matter. The government has made some announcements about targets for Canadian major emitters. However, I read an article suggesting the provinces will not agree to allow Ottawa to set these targets given it is a shared responsibility. They feel they will be giving up their economic sovereingty. Apparently they are threatening a constitutional challenge if the feds try to impose their binding targets on major emitters in Canada hence the delay in announcing the targets. So much for making any progress on the environment file. The provinces will have to put their money where their mouths are. It will be interesting.
  117. fuzzy bare from Ontario, Canada writes: George Hall... You are speaking in parables.
  118. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: diane-marie: I would have said 'demagogue.' I guess that conflicts a bit with 'sociopath' but I am not sure.
  119. Polar Bear from floating iceberg!, Canada writes: Here is the catch .... it is not over. In fact, it starts now. By 2009 there has to be some action and plans - Baird has to work and take the foot out of his mouth or he will look like Dion. And after Bush leaves office in 2008, US may just have a touher position on climate change.

    Canada was not even included in the group which negotiated the final version. It is a shame. No, our economy is not safe, it is now dictated by the Chinese, American and Europeans. If we had lead the discussions instead of following the US, we would have got in a point or two of our own.

    We seem to elect the most incompetent government. Everytime.
  120. Keith Mills from Guelph, writes: Prime Minister Stephen Harper...... Great Prime Minister or Greatest Prime Minister?
  121. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask:-- Indeed. I think that, as other posters have suggested, it's about trying to put to rest uncomfortable memories of an unpopular teenhood. Mix this nurtured bitterness with ideology and - voila! - our glorious leader. The rest of us just got on with our lives, but for him it remains an open wound to be dressed by political power. In my humble opinion, of course.
  122. bill williams from Guelph, Canada writes: -

    Canada! We are a proud nation! Oil revenue and doughnut shops...we'll show them!

    We helped G Bush (younger) water down an international agreement! Whaddaya think o' that? Pretty good eh? They wouldn't let us in the final round of meetings after they were finished with us telling everyone how right we thought they were, but we did help. John Baird got the US chief delegate's autograph and everything!

    Go Team Canada! When we set out to be a negative influence some people actually get irritated.

    Our delegation got 'Hemeroid of the Week' award from other delegations who were trying to hear what was going on. Yeah Baby!

    We didn't listen to other Canadian politicians or delegates, but we sure did listen to Dubya...right up until he told us we were no longer required...then we slunk away as asked. Don't tell us we don't know how to do our job!

    We'll be home soon. We missed ya. Did you miss us? Hello?