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Canadians dish out goodwill to disabled Kandaharis

TOBI COHEN

THE CANADIAN PRESS

Latest comment posted at 6:44 PM EST 16/12/07

Hundreds welcomed into Camp Nathan Smith for the annual Muslim Eid holiday food distribution. ...Read the full article

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  1. The NeoCynic from Christmas Island writes: Yet another shameless exploitation of misery by the CF PR hacks to sell the war. We give them a bowl of rice with one hand and 200 lbs of high explosive in the other.
  2. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...run the goodies but not the soccer balls....
  3. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: Globe, why don't you rather tell us more about the following, from today's New York Times (front page top headline): 'Afghan Mission Is Reviewed as Concerns Rise. Deeply worried about the prospect of failure, the Bush administration and NATO have begun three top-to-bottom reviews.' (By THOM SHANKER and STEVEN LEE MYERS)? THAT is what we, Canadians, need to hear about. The rest... you know...
  4. Carly MacKay from United States writes: 'Afghan Mission Is Reviewed as Concerns Rise. Deeply worried about the prospect of failure, the Bush administration and NATO have begun three top-to-bottom reviews.'

    What about the 'prospect' of failure in Iraq? They still have not completely admitted that one yet. If Afghanistan is a failure it is not the fault of the fine Canadian soldiers serving there, it is not the fault of the Brits or the Dutch. You can point the finger right at the Bush administration for not 'staying the course' but instead removing the bulk of our forces and sending them into Iraq.
  5. Globular Cluster from Canada writes: Stupid propaganda, that's all. Paying lip service to their holiday, give me a break.
    (Eye roll)
    My tax dollars should be going to stuff in this country !!!
  6. ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes: A political photo op in my opinion........Giving out LOLLIPOPS to kids! It would be better if OUR TROOPS went out loaded with GOLD MAPLE leaf coin and helped the peasants reconstruct their farms and villages. Six years into this'war' and we are still killing the peasants and destroying the villages and farms that support the economy!!! It is no wonder the locals staged the protest at the gates of the NATO base at Kandahar Airfield telling the Canadians(amongst the others) to 'go home'. HANDING OUT LOLLIPOPS JUST DOES NOT DO IT FOR THE AFGHANIS. WE must stop the killing and go out UNARMED and help the locals rebuild from the bottom up! Let the Wheat board export animal feed Let BC supply the timber. Let our AI Labs send out pedigree semen and let OTTAWA supply the Gold Coin! Let our Military engineers supply and operate the equipment. WHY GOLD? Because it sticks around and has the word 'CANADA' writ large!! Best pro - Canada propaganda there is!!! (All paper money is now suspect - even here in Nanaimo it is difficult to pass a $C 50 or $C 100 bill!)
  7. Chris Lalonde from Singapore writes: ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes 'A political photo op in my opinion........Giving out LOLLIPOPS to kids! It would be better if OUR TROOPS went out loaded with GOLD MAPLE leaf coin and helped the peasants reconstruct their farms and villages.'

    As the saying goes .. 'Feed a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, you feed him for you. No the Afghans don't need handouts. The handout mentality is something seriously very wrong with Canada. For example, the taxpayers have been doing that for decades to Native Canadians with little return on the money spent. Time to focus on new strategies (ex. education the great equalizer). Let's get out of this dangerous mentality!
  8. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Christmas Island writes: 'Yet another shameless exploitation of misery by the CF PR hacks to sell the war. We give them a bowl of rice with one hand and 200 lbs of high explosive in the other.' ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes: 'A political photo op in my opinion........Giving out LOLLIPOPS to kids!' Did either of you read the article? 'Widowed 10 years ago after her civilian husband became an unsuspecting victim in the war between the Russians and the mujahedeen, Sayed Bibi was left alone to raise her family of seven...The doting mother...is grateful for whatever she can get....On Saturday, that was a 50-kilogram bag of flour, a two-kilogram bag of sugar and a three-litre container of oil....According to the province's department of social affairs, there are an estimated 5,000 disabled people living in Kandahar, many of them left limbless as a result of landmines and improvised explosive devices.' Allistar, while you have some very good points and ideas in your post; nowhere does it say anything about handing out lolipops to the kids. The article very clearly refers to necessities that will help these people out; if only briefly. Neocyninc, last time I checked, it was the former USSR responsible for the bulk of the mines (if not all) in Afghanistan, and the Taliban responsible for the IEDs. But of course history usually shows that the Jane Fonda wannabe types usually ignore this in order to get their anti-US/ant-West rants across.
  9. The NeoCynic from Christmas Island writes: Jason Roy from Nova Scotia: I get it. The recipients must have politically correct injuries. Those horribly disfigured by NATO air strikes were given nothing.
  10. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: 'The article very clearly refers to necessities that will help these people out; if only briefly. Neocyninc, last time I checked, it was the former USSR responsible for the bulk of the mines (if not all) in Afghanistan, and the Taliban responsible for the IEDs. But of course history usually shows that the Jane Fonda wannabe types usually ignore this in order to get their anti-US/ant-West rants across.' $$$$$$$$$ Jason, in my opinion, none of the Western soldiers and military officers are in Afghanistan to provide 'necessities that will help these people out'. Least of all are they there to pick up the pieces behind Soviet forces. Those people are there for less easily avowed motives. I consider it is to the credit of the New York Times, to spell out those motives more clearly, today, without having to hide them behind pseudo, moralistic, highly questionable, 'humanitarian' ones.
  11. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: Jason Roy,

    Interesting how all the rest commenting seem to think we should do nothing to help when we can!

    Makes me very happy Neocynic isn't my neighbour. If I fell and broken something out shovelling snow, he'd likely come out and kick me while I'm down

    Cheers

    Mikey
  12. The NeoCynic from Christmas Island writes: Mikey from the GWN: The better metaphor would be me helping you shovel your driveway in distraction while my buddies loot and burn down your house.
  13. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: The NeoCynic,

    'while my buddies loot and burn down your house.'

    Yep, that would be the only type of friends you could have. Only worried about whatever you can get for yourselves.

    Seems you miss the concept of helping the downtrodden completely. Sad especially around Christmas

    CHeers

    Mikey
  14. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: Neocynic and Henriette; you're still not getting my point. First of all, nowhere in my previous post did I say that NATO wasn't responsible for civillian casulties, nor did I say this was all done with good intentions without the slightest hint of alternate motive. My point is that the same people who are against the Afghanistan deployment while certainly entitiled to their opinions, have NO PROBLEM filling the message boards with their indignation whenever NATO is responsible for civillian casulties or something like is mentioned in the article takes place; yet whenever thet Taliban is responsible for such casulties they are nowhere to be found. One more time I will say, that history has shown; particualarily going back to the Vietnam War, that the so called 'peace' movement has no trouble ranting about Western involvement in conflict but nary a peep is made about the other side. I say 'so called' peace movement; because ironically these individuals never seem concerned about ACTUAL peace, but as I said only an end to Western involvement; because once Western involvement is ended, they seem to have little to no concern for what happens to the people that Western forces seem to get accused of killing or exploiting after 'our side' leaves. As I said, Vietnam in particular was the showcase example of this - once the US government ended the draft in 1972, the 'anti-war' protestors melted away, leaving behind only the hard-core lunatic fringe of the political left who continued to trot out American-related attrocities while turning a blind eye to NVA/VC attrocites; finally in the end melting away themselves, totally ignoring the rounding/up relocation of South Vietnamese civillians by the Communist victors, or the upcoming slaughter that was to take place in Cambodia. Must have been a necessary evil of socialist revolution at the time and a small price to pay for 'liberation' from the 'Yankee Imperialists'.
  15. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: If the military really want to make their point about how humanitarian this war is, they certainly need to do more than this little photo opportunity. I think they could learn from the Imperial Russian Military in the Crimean War and set up a true Potemkin village for us all to marvel at.

    As we all know, the first victim in war is the truth - the cynicism inherent in this news clip is a sad comment on how naive the military considers the average Canadian.
  16. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: Peter Kells,

    'how naive the military considers the average Canadian.'

    Well, your average Canadian re-elected McGuinty in Ontario!

    CHeers

    Mikey
  17. charlie brown from Canada writes: Jason Roy: Well said!!
  18. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Mr. Mikey from the GWN - maybe I am too naive but I am not sure I understand your comment regarding some kind of linkage between Mr. McGuinty, average Canadians and military propoganda in Afghanistan.
  19. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes: There are some factually questionable statements in this article that should have been flagged by the reporter.

    - Sayed Bibi's husband could not have been a victim of the war against the Russians ten years ago. The Russians withdrew in 1988.

    - According to the Kandahar's Dept. of Social Affairs, there are 5000 disabled people in that province. The population of Kandahar province is perhaps in the 800,000 range. (Estimates vary.) If Afghans have the same rate of disabled people in the population as Canada, that would suggest that there are about 80,000 disabled people in Kandahar.

    It's great that Canada handed out essential supplies to a tiny fraction of the most needy in Kandahar. But the Muslim holiday of Eid comes only once a year. The question that should be on everyone's lips is, where is all the rest of the aid? If our goal truly is to help the Afghan people, why aren't we flooding Kandahar with mountains of essential aid?

    The PRT handed out flour, sugar and oil as a special gesture. Yet Canadians make those products by the boatload. There shouldn't be a malnourished person within 100km of Kandahar.
  20. Anne Mathews from Canada writes: I don't think anyone denies that we should help our neighbors out. I think saying no to that is a callous attitude that no one would advocate as a means to develop a country's identity around. That isn't the issue.

    The issue is these people need to eat every day, not just around the holidays. We need to get these people to a point where they can feed themselves and we need to ahd-out food consistently, not just when the cameras are there and the Harper government needs a photo-op.

    This is a complicated situation. We need to discuss it in complicated terms, not just that this is an issue of one or the other.

    Defeeating illiteracy and poverty are the long term solutions to many of the world's problems, but they are not quick fixes. I would rather we completely fund schools supplies, teachers, trasnportation to schools and security for the schools, especially those that teach girls) than we fund war.
  21. Smokey Woofs from Winnipeg, Canada writes: I didn't realize it was wrong to feed someone who was hungry, especially if they were outside of Canada. To Globular Cluster: don't worry, I think it was MY tax dollars that were used but I'm okay with that!
  22. C C from Canada writes: Holy, even if this isn't a perfect solution or anything, these people got 50kg of flour that they didn't have before! It's better than nothing. If you have nothing to eat, and I give you a bowl of soup, you'll be happy about the soup, right? It didn't solve all your problems did it? But it helped a bit right? You people complain that nothing is being done, then you complain that it's no good, then you'll complain that it costs too much! Apparently a start isn't good enough for you people.

    And really, I'm against killing innocents, but going out unarmed is insane. Alataire, why don't you go try it? See what happens.
  23. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: ' One more time I will say, that history has shown; particualarily going back to the Vietnam War, that the so called 'peace' movement has no trouble ranting about Western involvement in conflict but nary a peep is made about the other side.' $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Jason, to paraphrase Peter Coyote: peace activists 'did not kill three million Vietnamese (and fifty thousands Americans) and defoliate a nation with toxic material in a pointless war... They did not pay for and orchestrate and condone, as our government did, the murder of hundred of thousands of innocent Guatemalan and Nicaraguan civilians -- men, women and children living in inconceivable poverty, and struggling for food... ' ('Sleeping Where I Fall') $$$$$$$$$ I might add that it is not they who used depleted uranium that damaged in a fundamental way the genetic material of humanity in Serbia, in Afghanistan, in Iraq, etc. $$$$$$$$$ Let me therefore return the compliment unequivocally, in John Pilger's words, as they point to what our real problem is : 'We, in the West, know a lot about the crimes of other people but almost nothing about our own.' That is the problem. I therefore encourage readers to refer to his outstanding productions that substantiate his statement (they're available on Youtube: 'Freedom Next Time', 'War on Democracy', 'New Rulers of the World', etc.), as well as to what he has written on the subject (just Google Search Jon Pilger). People can then make up their own mind on this issue, as on others, I'm sure.
  24. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: It is of course JOHN PILGER. Sorry about that.
  25. Geoff Haskell from Canada writes: Good for you G&B! You put up a positive story about Afghanistan and our mission there. I know some people would rather pull out and let the Taliban takeover, but fortunately they are not making the decisions in this country. In WWII their were these people called Nazis and even though they never attacked us we still declared war on them - good for us- we took the moral high ground then - and Canada is taking it again! YES..criticize the mission - because the job can always be done done better - but NO...don't give up cause its not easy!
  26. Geoff Haskell from Canada writes: Jason Roy - Thank you - I could not have said it better myself!
  27. Paul Jay from Ottawa, Canada writes: Jason Roy, regarding your brief mention of Cambodia - it is widely acknowledged that the U.S. bombing campaign against that country was the reason the Khmer Rouge came to power. We know what happened after that.
  28. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: Henriette Heroux; while what you say is well documented and true; you're still deflecting away from my point.

    Nowhere did I say Western militaries/right wing governments were free of blood on their hands. I am addressing the history of so called 'peace' movement to regularily trot out Western 'sins' while ignoring those of the 'other side'.

    Yes, peace activists did not kill 3M Vietnamese - Americans, S Vietnamese AND North Vietnamese & VC did. As I said, so called 'peace' activists don't seem concerned with ACTUAL PEACE per se, only an end to our involvement in conflict. If they truly cared then they would be equally outraged at the fate of the people that Western forces have been accused of killing; at the hands of those that Western forces were trying to protect them from.

    Incidents in war happen. The thing is they happen on both sides. To ignore one while foaming at another; particularily in an open society such as ours where freedom of the press allows us exposure to both sides; is purely hypocritical.
  29. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from Canada writes: Attention Political Hacks:

    How much of this personally affects you? Got family there, do you? Got a loved one serving there? How about even a neighbour?

    Obviously y'all talked to a bunch of soldiers and know what is going on over there, right?

    Sad commentary on Canadians, this particular thread is......
  30. Geoff Haskell from Canada writes: Jason, I agree and it's not only hypocritical its outright dangerous. It leads public opinion towards ignorance which kills political will to do the right thing! Just look at our government. They know its the right thing to do, but are afraid of backing the mission 100% because too many Canadians are ignorant to what we are trying to achieve over there. Many Canadians conflate the Iraq war with Afghanistan as if they are identical situations. These so called peace activists are only helping the Taliban in the long run.
  31. Jake Smith from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Despite civilian casualties and the other negatives that are associated with the NATO mission in Afganistan life is better for the Afgan people today than it was before.

    As for spending tax dollars there - what are we as a people if we don't give a hand to people when they need it. Ignoring the extemists got us Sept 11 - which certainly has cost us some tax dollars. Anything we can do to improve security and improve people's lives there is a good thing.
  32. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: Richard Roskell,

    'Sayed Bibi's husband could not have been a victim of the war against the Russians ten years ago. The Russians withdrew in 1988.'

    And when they left, the Russians left behind millions of land mines so Yes he could have been a victim of that war!

    'If Afghans have the same rate of disabled people in the population as Canada, that would suggest that there are about 80,000 disabled people in Kandahar.'

    Since the World Health Agency holds the average life span in Afghanistan as 42 years, I don't think Canadian ratios have any chance of being usable.

    'There shouldn't be a malnourished person within 100km of Kandahar.'

    True - so tell the Taleban to quit killing the food aid truck drivers

    CHeers

    MIkey
  33. Laura B from London, Canada writes: I truly am disgusted by most of the posters on here. literally. how about showing some concern for the poor people talked about in this article? rarely do we get to hear about the people left disabled by these wars and how they live their lives. I dont know what the intent of this article was, some of you suggest propaganda, etc.
    however, I hope that circumstances can change for these people. I also hope some of you can put away your cinicysm maybe just for the holidays?
    merry Christmas
  34. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: I find it funny that those screaming for us to get out of Afghanistan, are now those talking about this being a 'photo op'. Seems to me, our troops can't win with that crew.

    Keep up the good job troops, and at Christmas time it is nice to see that they are doing something to help those in need.

    How about real charities where are they? How about Oxfam? I saw them protesting global warming in polar bear suits in Bali, where are they in Afghanistan? Right, that's what I thought, they are too busy partying and protesting to really care about needy people. No more of my money goes to that useless organization. By Oxfam's own financial reports, only 36 cents of every dollar actually gets to the people who need it.
  35. Carson Calder from Canada writes: I assume that the folks who are trashing this gesture by the Canadians in Afghanistan (in honour of the celebration of the Muslim Eid holiday) would also mock Christmas turkey dinners for the homeless here in Canada.
  36. siren call from Canada writes: It may be propaganda and I may be a cheap date -- but I'll take stories like this over news of a bombing campaign to re-take a bit of land, any day.

    If you read much about Afghanistan, you will soon be confronted with buckets of information about the wounded, limbless and generally afflicted in Afghanistan. 30 years of war doesn't leave a nice legacy.

    Nonetheless -- what the heck is happening to all the money the international community is sending???? About Afghan administered aid to the disabled:

    'In fact, the pay of 400-800 Afghanis is equivalent to a mere $8-$16 a month and recipients say it doesn't even come close to meeting their basic needs.

    “That's not enough at all. One sack of flour is 2,700 (Afghanis) so 400 cannot be enough and I have a family of eight members,” said Akhtar Mohammad, who lost his leg after stepping on a landmine during the war with Russia some 17 years ago.'

    Karzai -- where's the gawdamned money going??

    'Despite the PRT's best efforts, many more people arrived than there were supplies and were sent home empty handed.'

    Hmmm. I wonder if we ever have to call off a military campaign due to lack of ammunition.
  37. Brendan Caron from Vancouver, Canada writes:
    Too bad they ran out of food. It is nice to see the budgets of the people. in the region. begrudging the poor thid little bit of food is par for the course for the war -mongers that are masquerading as the left. The suffering of those most afflicted by the war needs to be addressed now that we know how little they have. Helping not mouthing helping is good for everyone. Have a good Christmas all of you bah humbuggers.
  38. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: Paul Jay from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Jason Roy, regarding your brief mention of Cambodia - it is widely acknowledged that the U.S. bombing campaign against that country was the reason the Khmer Rouge came to power. We know what happened after that.'

    Perhaps the US bombing campaign wouldn't have happened if North Vietnam hadn't had 50K troops occupying portions of the country, using that territory as bases for attacks on S Vietnam and running their major supply route through the country; all in direct violation of the 1954 accords that gave Cambodia its independance and neutrality.

  39. John James from Canada writes: This is what Canada should be doing - helping on a humanitarian basis. Our troops have no business being in Afghanistan and meddling in the ongoing Taliban vs Northern Alliance war.
  40. Joe V from Canada writes: If our troops were really there out of concern for the Afghan people, humanitarian aid would be the primary goal of the mission. Instead it's a rare and newsworthy event when troops give out food to a handful of handicapped people. Whippie. They can't even provide 5000 handicapped residents with food? What about the hundreds of thousands of other hungry people who aren't handicapped? I guess it never crossed the minds of government or military leadership that if we actually helped Afghans with their basic needs, they might hate us less!

    Eh well, let's face it; our government and troops don't give a damn about the Afghan people. This is all about maintaining control of a country that acts as a staging ground for American middle-eastern operations.
  41. Tim Cares from Canada writes: '..You can fool some of the people all of the time..'
  42. ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes: JASON ROY........ your are arguing from the particular case to the general case..........In science this is virtually NOT ALLOWED!!

    However if you could list 5000 cases to support your views there might be some validity to your case.

    (the reason for the lollipops to kids is because that was the video clip of the proceedings: a kid getting a single lollipop from a Female member of our forces in uniform, shown on BC TV NEWS recently)
  43. Carson Calder from Canada writes: So, Joe V.....are you saying the Canadians should not have made this gesture?
  44. Jason Roy from Nova Scotia, Canada writes: ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes:

    'JASON ROY........ your are arguing from the particular case to the general case..........In science this is virtually NOT ALLOWED!!'

    I am? But...if that's what you call covering both sides of the issue.

    That aside, as I stated earlier you had some very good points in your original post, IMO.
  45. Joe V from Canada writes: Carson Calder: I'm saying that they should have made a gesture one thousand times larger.

    I think that photo ops such as this actually have a net negative effect through the manipulation of Canadian public opinion, despite helping out a handful of disabled Afghans. The average Canadian gets deceived into believing that the humanitarian effort of our troops is several orders of magnitude larger than it really is. If Canadians didn't believe that, there would be a lot more political pressure within Canada to switch from a military to humanitarian role. More Afghans would receive aid that way than during these limited photo ops.
  46. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: Joe V,

    You also should not take this event in isolation. The KPRT is busy everyday doing or building something

    http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/kprt-eprk/act_e.asp

    'troops don't give a damn about the Afghan people.'

    Really and how many troops who've been to Afghanistan have told you that? Do you even know any?

    Cheers

    Mikey
  47. siren call from Canada writes: Hillier's military includes some $23 million, annually, for public relations with a staff of 500. No doubt they were fully engaged in photographing this 'humanitarian mission'.

    Yet, we ran out of food?

    We asked these poor people to hop, hobble, roll, crawl to our base -- and we ran out of freakin' food?

    We actually turned some of these people away, empty handed? No food, tea, sugar, flour on the base to give these people? NO other NATO forces nearby to chopper flour in?

    We have no business there.
  48. siren call from Canada writes: This reminds me of another public relations move with which I was initially very pleased.

    Our forces rolled into one village. Tanks were positioned on the periphery as lookouts and medics did what they could for the population of the village; medicine, bandaging, eye fluids, some very minor operations, dental checks, etc.

    But we ran out of medicine for ONE village.
    Oh, well, tomorrow's another day.

    But our forces never returned to that village.
  49. Joe V from Canada writes: Mikey writes: 'Really and how many troops who've been to Afghanistan have told you that?'

    Why would I listen to the opinion of any troops on the matter? Their viewpoint is inherently biased. How many are honestly going to say,
    'Yeah, I'm not really helping the people here, I'm just suppressing political discontent to satisfy American strategic interests. I don't have any personal integrity, otherwise I would have refused to serve. I'm really a failure. My life is meaningless and I'm being used as a pawn.'?

    How many do you think are going to say that, even if it is true? Few people are willing to admit their own failings, and I don't expect Canadian troops to be any different from others in this regard.
  50. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: siren call from Canada writes:Yet, we ran out of food?

    We asked these poor people to hop, hobble, roll, crawl to our base -- and we ran out of freakin' food?

    We actually turned some of these people away, empty handed? No food, tea, sugar, flour on the base to give these people? NO other NATO forces nearby to chopper flour in?

    We have no business there.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Perfect example of a person who wants the troops out, but then screams because we didn't to enough to help the poor people. Make your mind up. Where are all the non-profit organizations? Bali last time I checked. Partying in the sun.
  51. ALASTAIR JAMES BERRY from nanaimo bc canada, Canada writes:

    CC from Canada takes me to task for suggesting the dispensors of Aid should go out unarmed...

    '... but going out unarmed is insane. Alataire, why don't you go try it? See what happens. ....'

    I have been in Iraq Syria Libya Egypt Jordan and Israel.

    I find Muslims to be unfailingly polite to me as an infidel. They have a code of honour which is(paraphrased somewhat) 'we cannot be beastly to polite strangers who put their trust in us' Indeed if you hit them at mealtime they will put every item of food they have infront of you.........BECAUSE YOU MIGHT BE EMBARASSED to ask!!
    If they suspect you smoke they will put cigarettes and matches in front of you.

    One must not abuse the hospitality and usually I would take a date or fig and have a kubiya chai and leave smiling(most important) with the usual SALAAMS. Many is the time I could have had my throat slit!

    Curiously Israel is much more antagonistic to Canadian Military...They constantly RUB IT IN that they are the best!!
  52. Henriette Heroux from Nouvelle-France, Canada writes: Jason Roy: Incidents in war happen... on both sides. To ignore one while foaming at another; particularily in an open society such as ours where freedom of the press allows us exposure to both sides; is purely hypocritical.' $$$$$$$$$$$ Jason, what is hypocritical is for the West to claim the moral high ground while betraying the very values it claims to uphold and to defend. That is what those who still have enough energy to work toward peace keep reminding us. It is healthy, I believe, that they do so, given their critics would most likely never do it. Indeed, they appear incapable to point to our very own underlying lies and deception, too busy as they are constantly cheering for war. $$$$$$$$$ As an aside, when you write: 'Perhaps the US bombing campaign wouldn't have happened if North Vietnam hadn't had 50K troops occupying portions of the country, using that territory as bases for attacks on S Vietnam and running their major supply route through the country; all in direct violation of the 1954 accords that gave Cambodia its independance and neutrality...' $$$ you conveniently keep silent on the the root cause of all this: the US outright violation of those 1954 accords, according to which elections had to be held in the whole of Vietnam, and which, it was generally admitted, the Viet Minh would have won by a landslide. There are other precedents for that kind of behaviour on the part of the US, by the way... One can therefore paraphrase what you wrote as follows: 'North Vietnam would not have had 50K troops occupying portions of the country (Cambodia), using that territory as bases to defend S Vietnam and running their major supply route through the country, if the US had not first violated the 1954 accords so blatantly...' Confirmation of Pilger's once again: 'We, in the West, know a lot about the crimes of other people but almost nothing about our own.' But among those who cheer for war, how many, did you say, want peace,?
  53. Joe V from Canada writes: Hunteroffortune writes: 'Perfect example of a person who wants the troops out, but then screams because we didn't to enough to help the poor people. Make your mind up.'

    You're overly simplifying the opinion of many people who share this viewpoint. The logic goes like this: the best scenario would be for our troops to switch emphasis from a military to humanitarian mission, and repair the damage that we have caused. However, it is better to withdraw the troops entirely than have them continue in their current role. The Afghan people don't want them there, and they're doing more harm than good.
  54. Carson Calder from Canada writes: Siren Call... It would be nice, but I don't believe Canadian troops are capable of snapping their fingers and multiplying fishes and loaves, so to speak. On the other hand, your two scenarios tell me that, although supplies eventually ran out, there must have been quite a few Afghans who did benefit from Canadian assistance on these occasions. Those would be people who otherwise would've received nothing.
  55. Clark The Mighty from Canada writes: How many people have Canadian troops disabled?

    PR STUNT. Terrible!
  56. Carson Calder from Canada writes: Joe V, when you say the Canadians should have made a gesture 1,000 times larger, I have a feeling that even if they had made a gesture of that size, you would then have demanded a gesture 10,000 times larger. Quantifying gestures is pointless. I say any gesture at all is worthy.
  57. siren call from Canada writes: Hunteroffortune Alberta, try googling 'NGOs Afghanistan'.

    I know it's a marvel to be baffled by, but what with nearly 6 billion people on the planet and the modern jet engine, OXFAM can be represented both in Bali AND in Afghanistan-- as well as other locations.

    Perhaps one of the NGOs, like the Red Crescent should have been tasked with coordinating this event.

    The Karzai government's representatives obviously have NO idea how many disabled people live in Kandahar.

    Some NGOs, like Doctors Without Borders have left Afghanistan due to the instability. Even though they were able to operate under Taliban rule.

    Go figure.
  58. siren call from Canada writes: Carson Calder from Canada writes:

    Of course, you're right about the loaves and the fishes.

    The fact is though that we have been there for 6 years and can't even hand out enough food for the disabled citizens of one city. (Not that we've been in Kandahar for 6 years.)

    Is giving something (some food, some medicine) better than nothing?

    I don't know. I wonder how it feels to have so little, to know that those giving have so very much and to be one of the people left with nothing but a humiliating crawl home.

    I would like to see our soldiers host another free food weekend, as soon as possible, regardless of religious holiday.

    (Hillier is on cross country check up with Rex Murphy, right now.)
  59. Nancy Wilson from N.Ontario, Canada writes: We should be proud of the generous contribution these soldiers have made.
    Instead,all we hear are the critics.
    We did not invade this Country.We are there to help them.
    Since when,have Canadians been so lacking in their generosity to provide security and protection ,and maybe even freedom for others,against this oppressive and controlling regime[the Talibans].
    The task is extremely difficult,and may result in failure,but at least we should try to help,in these people's desperate need for intervention from this ruthless regime.
    Many times,I noticed,it is the very ones crying out for human rights and regard for others,that are the most critical.
    We are there,trying to help these people.
    We can'not help them,unfortunetley,without sometimes facing combat.
  60. Jack Robinson from London, Canada writes: I was privileged to catch a special report on CBC NewsWorld the other night by veteran correspondent Joe Schlesinger, focusing on Canada's changing military role from Pearson-era Suez peace keepers to it's current, more politically-complex and combative role in Afghanistan.

    Judging from the the posts above... my bent rabbit-eared perceptions of the world are no match for the wisdom imparted by Global Snooze/CNN sound bites in high-deaf doublespeak.
  61. Mac the Knife from Canada writes: Jack Robinson....for the less privileged, what was Schlesinger's point, aside from the fact that Canada's peacekeeper role has changed over the last 50 years? Not surprising that our role has changed, incidentally, when you consider how much the world itself has changed.
  62. James C. from Chaozhou, Guangdong, China writes: 'Carson Calder from Canada writes: I assume that the folks who are trashing this gesture by the Canadians in Afghanistan (in honour of the celebration of the Muslim Eid holiday) would also mock Christmas turkey dinners for the homeless here in Canada.'

    ----------

    i was thinking the same thing. we have christmas hampers from food banks, people buying gifts for underpriveleged kids at christmas, and more good will to go around at christmas. when we do it at home its positive, but some of these cynics cant stand to see it done to help people outside of canada. its shameful that some people on here are knocking a gesture of good will when it happens.

    the afghan people who received this food aid obviously arent complaining, of that i'm sure. again our forces have done the right thing in afghanistan.
  63. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: siren call from Canada writes: Hunteroffortune Alberta, try googling 'NGOs Afghanistan'.

    I know it's a marvel to be baffled by, but what with nearly 6 billion people on the planet and the modern jet engine, OXFAM can be represented both in Bali AND in Afghanistan-- as well as other locations.
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    Fine, so why does only 36 cents of every dollar donated to Oxfam go to actual aid? I'm quoting from their own site. Yet they can afford to be at Bali protesting? And speaking of jet engines, how can a group like them protest in Bali and still fly all around the world polluting? Hypocrites.
  64. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: Joe V from Canada writes: Hunteroffortune writes: 'Perfect example of a person who wants the troops out, but then screams because we didn't to enough to help the poor people. Make your mind up.'

    You're overly simplifying the opinion of many people who share this viewpoint. The logic goes like this: the best scenario would be for our troops to switch emphasis from a military to humanitarian mission, and repair the damage that we have caused. However, it is better to withdraw the troops entirely than have them continue in their current role. The Afghan people don't want them there, and they're doing more harm than good.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You are not helping your cause with that logic. How come so many people showed up for the food, if according to you, 'The Afghan people don't want them there'? Who told you that? Taliban Jack? The MSM?

    So, you want to make the troops do the job of non-profit organizations, call it a 'photo op' and then slam them for not providing enough, while telling us all that they really don't want us there anyways, so we should leave. That's not logic, that's distorted thinking.
  65. Diogenes the Cynic from Shanghai, China writes: Ladies and gentlemen, Christians, I understand Xmas is 'round the corner... Why so little talk for peace here? Why so little compassion? Why so many pro-war folks? Are not 75% of adults in Canada Christians? This poor soul simply cannot understand. Can anyone explain?
  66. Brenton Walters from vancouver, Canada writes: Hunteroffortune, can we just drop the 'Taliban Jack' comments? It's inane and immature.

    I agree with you, to say that the Afghans don't want us there is mostly wrong, given the recent polling done there. I think that this was a perfect opportunity for the Canadian troops to do some goodwill work. Hearts and minds stuff, so to speak.

    However, your above question regarding NGOs in Afghanistan is misplaced. There are thousands of NGOs working in Afghanistan, many of them doing great work, some of them doing shoddy work, but most there with good intentions, much like our troops. This poor country will take billions of dollars and years of stabilization and reconstruction before it functions like anything resembling a modern state, if it ever gets there. It will take a coordinated effort between the military and the aid communities, not one or the other.
  67. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Ms. Nancy Wilson from N.Ontario - as you say, we did not invade this country - well somebody did. At the time of 911 Afghanistan was engaged in a civil war. The Taliban who controlled 95% of the country were in pitched battle against the Northern Alliance (of Warlords?) - a ruthless group of desperados if ever there was one. The US came down on the side of the Northern Alliance and subsequently created the conditions for them to overrun the country.

    Currently the Northern Alliance have the upper hand and the Taliban have been on the run. However, it is not a fait accompli and will not be so in the forseeable future. Consequently the Canadian Forces are caught in the middle of a civil war in Afghanistan that has been played out for a generation and will continue until all the parties finally agree to some kind of compromise and that won't happen as long as each group thinks that they have a foreign 'big brother' supporting their cause.

    Bearing in mind the history of Afghanistan, a military solution is impossible. At the end of the day, the Afghans will have to sit down and reach a negotiated solution - I don't know if the western intervention is helping or hindering this. Its a civil war and Canadians won't determine the outcome.
  68. simple tonne from Canada writes: Sorry for blowing your legs off, little mohamed. Here, have a teddy bear.
  69. Diogenes the Cynic from Shanghai, China writes: Brenton Walters from vancouver, Canada writes: '... to say that the Afghans don't want us there is mostly wrong, given the recent polling done there. ' Brenton, do you have the faintest idea what conditions must be fulfilled for a valid poll to be conducted? Can you in any way imagine how a valid poll can possibly be conducted in present day Afghanistan? Please enlighten us all! Tell us what those conditions are and how that valid poll could possibly have taken place, will you? Thank you so much!!!
  70. Chris Lalonde from Singapore writes: Never mind the cynical little jerks on this forum, GOOD WORK CF! You do care! Thank you!!
  71. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: I see Hunteroffortune is still hanging on to that Taliban Jack moniker. The news should have reached Alberta by now that folks like British Army brass, Dutch Army brass and plenty of US army brass who've actually served time in Afghanistan have been calling for the same thing that Jack Layton called for, which earned him that 'clever' nickname by CPC sheep: Negotiate with the Taliban. Whether some of their values offend us or not, they represent a large segment of society there. (Trying to eliminate them would be like trying to eliminate, uh, Conservatives in Alberta!) They are far more than a bunch of 'terrists', and their way of thinking is nothing new to the region. It's homegrown culture. Deal with it. Negotiate with them.

    By the way, anybody seen Osama bin Laden? That was like 6 years ago, and we're supposed to believe that Bushy is doing everything in his power to hunt down the 'evil doer!? Truth is truly stranger than fiction here. Oh, but maybe it's all the other way around.

    Merry Christmas everybody...
  72. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: That was like 6 years ago, and we're supposed to believe that Bushy is doing everything in his power to hunt down the 'evil doer!?
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Oh, and your use of 'Bushy' is superior because????? Typical hypocrite. You can name call, but don't let anyone else who doesn't hold your vaulted opinion do it. You obviously think your opinion is worthwhile, but mine isn't. Is that because I'm a Conservative from Alberta, and you are envious?
  73. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: Jason Roy actually seems to think we went in there in the first place to help the Afghan people... like he actually seems to think the French and then the US - guns blazing, napalm dropping - went into Vietnam to help the people of Vietnam.

    So much full-metal helping going on. I'm feeling better already.
  74. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: Sorry, that was a vicious typo ;-)

    How's your Haliburton stock doing there, Hunteroffortune?
  75. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: My 'vaulted' opinion? Is that like a vaunted opinion? Anyhow, it wasn't mine; I was just passing on the opinion of far more experienced and knowledgeable in the matter than you or I. Who knows, maybe they were telling Jacky Layton that same stuff before they told us. (Sorry, there's that typo again with the y... must be my German keyboard)
  76. Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada writes: Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: Sorry, that was a vicious typo ;-)

    How's your Haliburton stock doing there, Hunteroffortune?
    Posted 16/12/07 at 9:18 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Actually my Encana stock is doing great! They just announced they are doubling the dividends, so I'm happy.

    Oh, a typo, right.......but it's okay to be vicious, I see. Who would invest in Haliburton? Hope you don't have anything invested in the Toronto Star, the price is falling faster than a falling star, HA!
  77. Walker N from Canada writes: I am sure the Taliban Warlords would do a much better job of supporting the disabled/and or widowed. I mean these are the guys who suppress personal freedoms (particularly women) with force.

    The effort being made by our troops is not perfect, but nothing ever is. To all of you shouting from the sidelines, I hope you are never taken out of your comfortable lives and put in the position of those subjegated by the likes of the Taliban, and you are forced to relay on brave men and women from another country to stand up for you.

    Here's to hoping that our troops have as safe as is possible December, and that their actions can make the lives of the downtrodden just a bit better.
  78. David Simon from Canada writes: Those disabled Afghans are certainly more deserving of food aid than the young able bodied dependent-free welfare-receiving begging Canadians I see in my town.
  79. John James from Canada writes: If you want to keep the troops safe, bring them home instead of sending them to die to prop up a US puppet government. The Afghans should be allowed to decide who runs their country. While this latest gesture is commendable (even though a PR stunt), our soldiers have also killed and maimed many innocent Afghans.
  80. Red Fox from Canada writes: Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada -

    I don't know why you continue posting on these threads...
    It is obvious that those with sh!t-for-brains dominate these boards.

    Good Day
  81. Red Fox from Canada writes: Hunteroffortune Alberta from Canada -

    You Donate to Oxfam ?
    Wait you donate to charity ? HAHAHAHA
  82. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: Of course, the Canadian troops there are doing their best, and have the best of intentions. Glad to hear their doling out some extra kindness at the moment. Good work! But all this cozy truthiness! Please. The troops are pawns. We are pawns. The Afghanis are pawns. The Taliban are pawns. Don't ask me what the actual game plan is exactly, but it is patently clear that it is not and never was about helping the Afghani people, nor defeating the Taliban, nor - most obviously - catching Osama bin Laden. Remember him? Does anyone still really believe that the real objective behind Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran has not been, and is not, and will not be, about who will control oil reserves in the region as they dry up? Has the US government really committed itself to a decade-long, multinational war to save souls from nasty dictatorships in that region? That's grand of them, but if so, why all of a sudden now? They used to be happy doing lots of business with them before? The US never particularly cared whether a foreign government was democratic or not. And it's per-capita foreign aid has been pitifully low for decades by comparison to that of almost any developed nation. But time and time again it has executed military operations - large or small, as necessary - to improve or protect its geopolitical and economic position in the world. That is what empires do, and that is what this one is doing right now. Canada is there as a political favour. Some Afghani women and children have benefited, and that's great. I hope more will; but please let's stop deluding ourselves about why we really went in the first place. It was NOT to help get their girls back in school.
  83. Red Fox from Canada writes: Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany -

    You make excellent points.
    However you should remember that most Globe and Mail commentors are living in a parallel universe.
  84. globefan EH from Canada writes: Ten dollars for the military and one dollar for aid and reconstruction has been what we have spent thus far. We can do much better if we really want to help rebuild this shattered country.
  85. siren call from Canada writes: Rebel Prince from Berlin, I object to your characterizing us all as "pawns"!!!

    I'm pretty sure the correct word is, "consumer" (or "consumed" depending on your exact role).
  86. Rebel Prince from Berlin, Germany writes: Siren Call: Pawns, consumers, fodder.. take your pick ;-)
  87. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: The Kandahar Provincial reconstruction Team website, http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/kprt-eprk/act_e.asp lists a variety of projects that they have been working on. I recognize a number of them from a year ago, and the few dates listed are from 2006. Efforts by CIDA are mentioned a number of times, despite reports that the money they were dishing out disappeared into a black hole because there was no oversight.... Handing out the food was a great gesture, but just a gesture. Too bad they didn't get out to the refugee camps. The soldiers involved deserve praise, but there's no doubt that it was political theater. If they do this once a week and make sure they have enough to go around it will be more impressive.
  88. martha stewart from Canada writes: Wow, this propaganda piece is sure sweet. Next best thing to GI Joe handing out chewing gum. Yet in the photo with this article, nobody looks too happy at all. Don't they appreciate what the Good Coalition is doing to them or their country? Don't they have a photo editor who's 'with the program'?

    Get our troops out of this mess ASAP. Leave macho-man Hillier there. If he survives he can do PR for Chevron.
    • Posted 16/12/07 at 11:27 PM EST |