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Warming enough for you?

ALAN BLACK

The Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 8:37 AM EST 27/12/07

Melting Arctic ice cap top weather story in Environment Canada's annual list ...Read the full article

This conversation is closed

  1. John Baird from Ottawa, Canada writes: .

    Growl, snarl, barkbarkbark. It's not my fault. Growl. Blame the others, we haven't done anything. HOOOOOOOWL.

    .
  2. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: 'Story' is the operative word. Like Little Red Riding Hood.

    The polar ice is accumulation slightly faster than normal.. about 1%. But you didn't read it here. No the polar ice cap is gone according to the Global Warming activists.

    So you have the most promoted story. The story of Global Warming.

    STORY...
  3. D. Mackintosh from Etobicoke, Canada writes: Apologies, but my first comment at the moment is to just say to Alan Black that I think he meant to write 'arctic', not 'attic' ... as in, 'A chunk of ice the size of Ontario melted away in Canada's attic this...
  4. D. Mackintosh from Etobicoke, Canada writes: Apologies once again Alan Black, now I get it, it is meant to be 'attic'!
    Just ignore me ...
  5. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Ice persists above normal:

    'Icecap note: In the Northern Hemisphere, the ice and snow cover have recovered to within 1% (one snowstorm) of normal with the official start of winter still more than 12 days away'.... Dec 10th this year.... so where is Alan getting his facts?

    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/southernhemisphereicecoverremainswellabove_normal

    MORE ice not less
  6. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Full page jpeg of ice mass:

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    See for yourselves.
  7. S. V. from Quebec City, Canada writes: Gee, Bob, do you think Environment Canada has been infiltrated by scientists? I am glad this message from EC got out. How it did get out, that's another story.
  8. Kanti Dinda from Canada writes: Global warming will go down as the big story for 07 I suppose. The alarmists will have us believe we need to waste billions now to stop it while millions starve in Africa and elsewhere in the world. I'm sure we could save and make many more lives better by spending the money elsewhere.
  9. Joseph Freeman from Vancouver, Canada writes: Gee, Bob, you sure can post a lot but can you read? Maybe the image used was from this summer because the article is about the fact that the arctic ice melt was more expansive this summer than ever before. Get it, the ice melt 'in the summer' was greater than ever before!!!

    Not today, but in the SUMMER - when things melt. Check out your old thermo book if you need further explanation.

    And, for everyone, there is this cool website called www.weather.com that allows you to look up current conditions throughout Canada and the US. So if your curious about this 'daily weather forecast' thing, it is a good place to start.

    But you know what, it won't say ANYTHING about global climate change because you don't figure that out by looking out the window in Toronto or Calgary or Detroit or even Miami on any given Thursday. It's a little more complicated than that.

    But thanks for playing Bob. Try again later.
  10. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Kanti Dinda from Canada writes: 'The alarmists will have us believe we need to waste billions now to stop it while millions starve in Africa and elsewhere in the world.'

    Try convincing us first that those billions would otherwise be spent on global famines. And that those famines are not increasing now because of climate change.
  11. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: Bob ImamI, what would you do with your energy with out the 'story' about global warming. lol

    you such a ardent defender I give you that.
  12. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Canada is colder than average. So why is Black saying it is warmer.. See for your selves.. here are the thistorical temperature plots:'

    Canada IS warmer than average climate even if this is a colder than average weather this year.. The Mackenzie Delta area is noted to be about 3C warmer on average. That is a LOT.

    'So if the article say it is warmer and it is actually colder... make you wonder about all the other assertions.. like the polar ice cap that is freezing faster than normal but the article pretends otherwise.'

    The measure of ice levels is how much area is covered by 'persistant ice' that doesn't melt, not how much or how fast it grows during the winter.

    'fairy tales'

    No. Your claims consist of junk science or maybe just ignorance, not fairy tales. You really need to get your mind in gear.
  13. Joseph Freeman from Vancouver, Canada writes: I don't give out any personal information to demanding idiots on the web. I think you should concentrate on trying to make the leap of knowledge between a) the weather on Thursday versus b) overall climate trends of the entire planet. That should be your objective. Concentrate on that, and wiping the froth off of your shirt. those two things will keep you busy for a long, long time.

    The only question I think you ought to be answering since you decided to pollute the board with lots of links and pretty charts that show NOTHING is this.

    YES or NO: Was the melt of the arctic ice cap greater this past summer than ever recorded by scientists?

    That is what the article is referring to.

    And the answer to that question, cheating though it may be for me to give it to you, is YES. The melt of the arctic ice cap this past summer was greater than ever recorded.

    That is why it was big news. Case closed. Nothing you have said or will continue to post the rest of the day changes that fact, which must really be increasing your personal temperature. Have a glass of water while you undertake the two tasks I suggested.
  14. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Kevin...If it weren't for Global Warming the socialists would find another lie to perpetrate. I would also be on the side of facts in that circumstance also. Global Warming is just the lie of the decade.

    25 years ago the socialists rallied against nuclear power, and global freezing and praised the soviet union. I argued against them then too.

    In a year or so.. only the most wigged out extremists will be claiming Global Warming...There will be another issue. Anything that takes money from me and gives it to the UN is bad.
  15. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Joe.. sorry case opened..

    If loonies like you are going to claim that the world is warming then the temperature must be warmer somewhere? sometime?

    Everywhere it is cooler. The entire southern hemisphere suffered the longest winter (measured in snow retention) in recorded history this past winter.

    If the polar ice cap is capable of freezing completely over to its original depth which it has already done, then, who cares what you claim happened? The ice is there now.

    NASA predicts it will be getting colder each year until 2022 when the solar output will be at a minimum.

    Present cooling is consistent with solar radiance reductions.

    It is colder.. not warmer.
  16. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Try convincing us first that those billions would otherwise be spent on global famines. And that those famines are not increasing now because of climate change. ' The first steps to reduce climate change will PAY in reduced waste and resources. For example, improving the efficiency of coal power ( current plants built in the 60's and 70's are about 30% efficient due to older design and aging) to 44% thermal efficiency. It would pay just from the reductions in fuel necessary for the same output. This isn't about spending billions. It is about investing in better technology to develop sustainable economies. Secondly, famine is a problem of subsistence farming not being able to pay for food because of crop failure, not that food is not there. They tend to EXPORT food during famines because it can get 'better prices' elsewhere. Look it up. The most beneficial change for poor nations would be to invest in stockpiles of staple grains during good years ( i.e. farm cooperatives or government grain stockpiles) and to consolidate farms and diversify economies so that fewer people are dependent on their latest harvest. This doesn't take 'handouts' from the West. It merely needs the West ( and in particular the IMF) from using their economic leverage to force these nations into pure market economics which they cannot manage. i.e Malawi had major surpluses of grain from 'fat years' which the IMF forced them to sell for a loss on the international market as part of 'interest payments' just before the latest ( predictable) drought and consequent famine.) This abuse by the developed world in the name of capitalist ideology has GOT to stop.
  17. Niran Sabanathan from Edmonton, Canada writes: Bob, why all the talk about wigged out socialists and no actual answers to the questions raised ? For a person who wants to look at 'facts' you are being awfully evasive.
  18. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada writes: '25 years ago the socialists rallied against ... global freezing'

    Prove it.
  19. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Ian from St. John...'This abuse by the developed world in the name of capitalist ideology has GOT to stop.'.....

    Ian makes my point Kevin.

    You see it is not about Global Warming really... it is about wealth redistribution... Global Warming lies is just the excuse. Next decade it will be ....I don't know...overpopulation or sea urchins ... whatever.

    Today the lie is Global Warming.. I have to say the liars are pretty bold... claiming global warming and polar ice melting when the data say otherwise.
  20. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Hugh Campbell... proof:

    http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm

    Next....
  21. Dave Jansen from Canada writes: No Climate Change is happening.

    Remember the snow-storm on Dec 16th? Apparently that signaled the end of climate change. Never-mind the 10 straight hours of rain last week...
  22. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada writes: 'http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_'

    Exactly. A blog article about a Newsweek report about a theory from a few scientists ... Where is the scientific consensus? Where are those socialists?!
  23. Iain's Opinion from Canada writes: This is too funny. I'll bet you can still find medical doctors who can prove there is no link betweeen smoking and cancer.
    Bob instead of looking at charts, why not look at pictures of where the glaciers used to be and where they are now. If they advanced somewhat the earth is cooling, if they retreated the earth is warming.
  24. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Iain.... How about looking at data and not looking at propaganda.

    If Ice is melting it is melting because???????... I'll say it.. because it is warm?.... so it must be warm ... right? so where is it warm.... I don't need anything other than temperature data to discuss temperature.

    But to convince people who aren't scientific by nature... like the socialist rabble.... you don't need data... you need propaganda... like a summer picture of summer melting ice in winter.... or a phony shot of a polar bear drowning that never happened... or.. a picture of the Po river in the summer... or picture of downtown Tokyo...an Urban heat Island....

    Oh yes I guess I should pay attention to everything other than temperature.

    No I will pay attention to temperature when discussing temperature thanks.
  25. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: ICE accumulation site:

    You can watch the melted polar ice cap re freeze like it does every year.. only this year it is thicker than usual.

    Full page jpeg of ice mass:

    http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/arctic.4.jpg

    See for yourselves.
  26. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: ...There is no Santa Claus either...
  27. Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada writes: I choose to disregard the socialist bung. In five or ten years it will be some other whacko agenda they will be pedaling once they squeeze the last drop of this nonsense.. We’ve seen it before and will most certainly se it again.
  28. James M from Canada writes: We had a white Christmas in Toronto this year. We used to have a white Christmas every year. I think what is telling is not the fact that it was white this Christmas, but the fact that we think it's rare. It used to be common. Something's different. If it smells like the Earth is warming, it looks like the Earth is warming.....
  29. James M from Canada writes: Another thing Bob. I started going to the arctic regularly since 1999. I have noticed a DRASTIC change in those years. Plants are more abundant, animals traverse more north and we are trying to decide what to do now that the permafrost is not so permanent.
  30. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: Thanks Bob ImamI, despite all of the flames you regularily draw I appreciate your work to actually look up the facts presented.

    It's always amusing how anything the IPCC says is the gospel and how any pro-GW article must be correct; anything contrary must be because of big oil and people in denial.
  31. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: My family has been going to Resolute Bay since 1951. It is no warmer now than then.

    By the way the other phony bit of extremism... the ozone hole.. never happened... we were measuring it with weather balloons in the 1950s. It has always been there. It will always be there.
  32. Cuban Cigar from Canada writes: You caught me Bob - it's me. I made up the lie about global warming. There, that feels much better. Ozone and Freone, me too.

    And to start 2008 with a clean conscience: Evolution is a lie too. It was made up by grandpa Darwin while drinking with uncle Karl one night.
  33. Osman Aboul-Nasr, Proud Canadian from United States writes: This is actually good news for me. I bought a nice piece of land about 20 miles from the Atlantic Coast of SC, as an investment of course for my children and grandchildren. By the time they grow up, it will be beach front property. Next year, I plan to trade my wife's Jetta for a big Caddy Escalade. We have to do our share in improving the value of the property.

    NOT!
  34. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: RD.. at the end of the day facts will prevail. No sense in making them up. I record every comment here. I add it to my own database. To me it is interesting to watch comment behavior over time measured in months.

    There is a marked difference in the number of and nature of comments defending Global Warming com pared with last year. in fact the G&M has taken down their climate change hot link on the main page.

    The IPCC contributers, 400 climate scientists are on record condemning the IPCC report and declaring no anthropogenic global warming.

    I only refer to facts. that is what is so frustrating to the Global Warming sycophants. they don't use data... it is all emotion and religion.
  35. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Accredited data:

    400 citations.....

    http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=f80a6386-802a-23ad-40c8-3c63dc2d02cb

    Next....
  36. Joe Calgarian from Calgary, Canada writes: Huh. I thought the top news story would have been alarmist global warming stories by irresponsible news media in a not so subtle attempt to further feed the paranoia of the soccer moms and to play into government attempts to continue to regulate us to death.
  37. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Joe.... You are correct. Only they said what you said in code. You know the code....wink.... the Global Warming code...

    Ha!
  38. Abby U from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Thanks Bob for taking a stand: your efforts are greatly appreciated. These global warming nutters would have us all live in the cold so that they can redistribute our wealth, in terms of our ability to heat our homes, to these so called developing nations like Russia.
  39. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada writes: '400 citations..... http://epw.senate.gov'

    A minority report from the office of the notorious Marc Morano including only a handful of climate scientists but most notably Fred Singer of the tobacco defense racket, Timothy Ball who has been blatently overstating his credentials for 10 years, and Christopher Monckton, the UK equivalent. Same old recycled trash there.

    http://www.desmogblog.com/400-prominent-scientists-dispute-global-warming-bunk
  40. James M from Canada writes: Bob, you want us to show you data, yet all you show is Toronto's temperature in the last month is colder than history. What about the last five years? Substantially warmer. You look at a thermometer on a given day, and say, 'see, GL is a farce'. Where is your data? Are you smarter than 95% of all climate scientists who say the GL is a fact? You sit in your Mom's basement proclaiming it's a big world wide conspiracy.

    Yeah, just like the ozone layer. Sure, now I have to wear 50spf not to get burnt, yet, as a child, I put on oil to make my tan better. Yes, another conspiracy. You sound like a nutcase.
  41. James M from Canada writes: Bob, oil at $90 a barrel might have something to do with your heating bill.
  42. Dark Green from Ambrosian Fossils' Attic, Cuba writes: Learn to swim from a professional. Hurry, still a couple of places left (deniers who did not show up...).
  43. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Ha.. stand back and look at the debate... you guys are just ranting and flaming... and I'm burying you with data.

    You are too easy.
  44. James M from Canada writes: Bob, I don't see any data. What are your credentials by the way? Internet surfer? Scientist? You haven't proven anything!
  45. James M from Canada writes: Bob, what was your consumption like last year compared to the previous year? Last year was warm, and now you say your consumption is up from last year is proof that GL is a fraud? Is you consumption up from 10 years ago?
  46. M j from Canada writes: I read the Senate report of 400 citations and it's patent trash. It's just a collection of sound bites taken from various people, that can each be construed to be critical of anthropogenic climate change (ACC) to some degree or another. Some aren't even critical of ACC at all, just against the attention that ACC is receiving compared to what they feel are more immediate problems.

    It must be noted that this 'report' has been compiled by ACC skeptics in the Senate's Environment and Public Works subcommitttee, with the express purpose of casting doubt on ACC. It is NOT a review of published studies. Only some of the quoted 'experts' are actually climatologists who have done any work in the field. It does NOT offer in comparison any of the thousands upon thousands of quotes that could be taken in favour of ACC. In short, this report is insubstantial garbage with as much authority as the advice column in a gossip rag.

    Geez, this stuff is embarassing to real scientists.
  47. A Canadian from Cole Harbour, Canada writes: Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: Bob ImamI from Canada writes: 'http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_'

    Exactly. A blog article about a Newsweek report about a theory from a few scientists ... Where is the scientific consensus? Where are those socialists?!

    I love this scientific consensus thing. Wasnt there a scientific consensus at one point in time that the earth was actually flat.
  48. Diogenes the Cynic from Shanghai, China writes: To quote Harold Pinter: 'Did they take place?... The answer is yes they did take place... But you wouldn't know it. It never happened. Nothing ever happened. Even while it was happening it wasn't happening. It didn't matter. It was of no interest ... very few people have actually talked about them. ... It's a brilliant, even witty, highly successful act of hypnosis.' (Nobel Lecture)
  49. Bob ImamI from Canada writes: MJ.. glad you read it....

    'Geez, this stuff is embarassing to real scientists.' you said.

    The scientists to whom you refer are the same ones who authored the IPCC report, and request to have their names removed which the IPCC refused to do.

    So the Scientist in the IPCC report are real... but the same guys, when they are in the Inhofe report.. aren't?? Ha..... too funny.

    Nice try.
  50. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: Nothing like a little extremism to bring the chanters out of the woods. The telling story here is about the reaction of the pro-GW crowd, anyone who doesn't tow their party line is attacked as Satan.
    It seems after all that the 'crowd' loves a good story, and handing story's about the end of the planet like giving them a daily fix.

    Of course we haven't proved that humans are responsible for global Terra-Forming, but for some strange reason the GW crowd has dismissed the effects of the earth's largest source of energy ...the SUN.
    But wait, ask any of them and they'll tell you we always has the technology to accurately measure it's output...NOT
  51. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: ahhh, see... with comments like those from the devoted congragation of GW above (buble, J C) we're missing out on ways we can make $$ from this crowd...oh wait, Carbon Tax Credits - 'KYOTO' is already on that.
  52. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Here's a list of all-time Toronto highs from Dec22 to New years eve. Accuweather.com, if you care to look it up:

    DEC 22 4 2 3 0 -8 -4 7 14 / 1949--

    23 7 -5 1 0 -8 -4 5 11 / 1957--


    24 = 12 / 1964--


    25 = 15 / 1982--


    26 = 9 / 1982--


    27 = 9 / 1949--


    28 = 17 / 1982--


    29 = 14 / 1984--


    30 = 7 /1965--


    31 = 13 / 1965--
  53. The Bubble from Canada writes: Such simple people Canadians are, like the happy Hobbits unaware of any danger, tilling their gardens and panelling their walls, such a happy buch.
  54. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    See the highs?

    Not ONE from the 90's or 2000 .

    Why do people believe that winters are warmer now?

    Guess the power of repeated lies has an effect on some...

    Look especially at '64 and '65. Gretzky was 4 or 5 at the time.

    Plus thirteen on new years eve.

    Guess the famous rink pics were from January...

    Where did I see an article with Walter G standing beside an unfrozen pool in December?

    Oh, yeah.....
  55. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Awash in Cash] exactly, the GW crowd picks and chooses their statistics to fit their predictions.
    And talking about predictions, what's the deal with the La Nina?

    Throw a hurricane in the news and it fits, a La Nina (cooling in the pacific) and what?
  56. The Bubble from Canada writes: Awash your so cute when you get mad.
    Lying is a sin you know.
  57. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Bubble--

    Here's the page:

    http://www.accuweather.com/canada-forecast-climo.asp?partner=accuweather&postalcode=M3H%206A7

    Look yourself.

    PS It's not a lie if it's all facts. Go ahead....
  58. Frank N. Stein from Canada writes: Excellent.

    The heat is nice indead. All is proceeding according to plan.

    More beach days is never bad.
  59. Frank N. Stein from Canada writes: Hey Bubbles.

    Relax - its a holiday
  60. Frank N. Stein from Canada writes: And remember - this article is about weather, not climate. It is NOT related to global warming, right?
  61. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Frank N--

    The warmest New Year's Eve ever was 1965. Plus 13.

    You're 42 years too late for the beach....

    How did Wayne ever manage to skate in his back yard in '65??

    Walter's magic, I guess...
  62. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Frank N. Stein] ...

    and I thought the article was about wealth redistribution (aka GW)
  63. mike sty from Canada writes:

    Teaching Canada's New Minority(The Neanderthal Party) about climate change is like putting a medical journal in front of a cow.
  64. Alex Yaxmos from Canada writes: Northwest Passage is worht it. Keep on warming, we got oil up there.
  65. JOSH Back from PHILLY from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't understand why global warming has created such polarizing sides. Is it not obvious that processing and consuming of non-renuable carbon based fuels are not good for the environment>? i.e smog, carcinogens, CO2?).

    I don't understand why it's so hard for people to make an 'inference' on the effects of releasing Carbon from it's solid/liquid state (coal, oil) into its new gasious CO2 form.

    think about this.. if we were to flash boil our oceans, would it not change our climate/environment?. Yes there might not be exact 'measureable' CO2 waste, but how can some people just go about their day and say there is no exact/forensic evidence(right now) ? and because of that we're going to ignore and continue our habits?.

  66. G Cyler from Saskaville, Canada writes: Too dry, too wet, too cold, too hot, too many hurricanes, too few hurricanes, too much ice, not enough ice, too many tornadoes, too few tornadoes. This all indicates 'global warming'. What an absolute joke.
    Ice a mile thick as far south as Chicago (last ice age) ... I bet the cave men wanted some 'global warming' then. So all they did was rev up all their hummers!
  67. Michael Kyoto from Canada writes: News Flash!! The climate is changing! Imagine, the climate warms and cools, warms and cools; ice melts and ice forms--this has been happening for millions of years. Get used to it!
  68. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    mike sty--

    Happy New Year!

    Look at the link to December records I posted.

    Weird, eh?

    Here I am, giving every spare penny of my cash to Gore-friendly causes, and it turns out I'm over 40 years too late!!

    How I wish I had a time machine so I could go back to 1965 and tell everybody that the 'Hot' new year's eve meant that we were deliberately killing the polar bears.

    Alas. Too late.

    Sob...

    PS--where's your usual long list of Harper-Hating Hyperbole??

    You haven't made a resolution to stop being a redundant crank, have you? It's not the 31st yet.
  69. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Bubbles] ... sorry lad, lost the argument (again) please accept the consolation prize at the door on your way out.

    reference to your argument:

    'it is accepted practice that dragging in a reference to Hitler or the Nazis in an argument not directly connected with those subjects, results in an automatic loss of argument for the person doing it (see also Godwin's Law).'
  70. Bill M from Canada writes: Maybe global warming is just the planet's way of fighting back. Humans apparently will be dying by the millions, or hundreds of millions, if they don't do something to keep the temperature at a level they find comfortable. No one seems to be able to answer that question by the way; what is the ideal temperature?

    So the planet has decided enough is enough, and will go about ridding itself of a parasite that is destroying it.
  71. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Ian makes my point Kevin.You see it is not about Global Warming really... it is about wealth redistribution... '

    Only if you are talking about redistributing wealth from the poor nations to the rich one. I guess that is what you mean. There is no way I can believe that you can misinterpret my post enough to claim anything else.

    'Today the lie is Global Warming.. I have to say the liars are pretty bold... claiming global warming and polar ice melting when the data say otherwise. '

    You do NOT support such a claim. I don't know how many clueless boobs I have corrected on the difference between regional vs global and weather vs climate. You count as just one more ignorant and deficient mind.
  72. Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: Mr Phillips a senior climatologist is truly relishing his new found oracle role for the Canadian Press. Sadly the explanation for the 2007 thaw is NEVER GIVEN IN THE GLOBE: So here it is to show how it is NOT related to GHG or AGW: Yahoo... SAN FRANCISCO—A reduction in clouds was likely a culprit in this summer’s record Arctic meltdown which temporarily opened up the fabled Northwest Passage, scientists announced this week. While Earth’s rising temperatures fueled by global warming are certainly a factor in the Arctic melt, unusual weather patterns this summer also influenced how much of the sea ice melted. One result of these patterns was a decrease in cloud cover, scientists said at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union, which would have allowed more sunlight to penetrate Earth’s atmosphere and warm the Arctic ocean waters. New data from NASA satellites observing the western Arctic, where most of the ice loss occurred, showed a 16 percent decrease in cloud coverage this summer compared to 2006. 'There’s been quite dramatic reductions of cloudiness this summer,' said study member Graeme Stephens of Colorado State University. The amount of sunlight from these clearer skies would have been enough to heat ocean waters by 4 degrees Fahrenheit (2.4 degrees Celsius), or enough to melt 1 foot (0.3 meters) of sea ice, the scientists said. 'Clouds are conspiring, they’re playing a role in this,' said study author Jennifer Kay, a post-doctoral research fellow at the National Center for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colo. Kay says the result of this work highlights the importance of the influence of weather pattern variability on an already stressed-out Arctic system. 'As Arctic sea ice thins, its extent is more sensitive to year-to-year variability in weather and cloud patterns,' Kay said. 'Our data show that clearer skies this summer allowed more of the sun’s energy to melt the vulnerably thin sea ice and heat the ocean surface.'
  73. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: I wonder what happened to my post referencing the Settlement in Greenland in 985AD?

    here's the link to an interesting article by Robert McGhee
    (Canadian Museum of Civilization)

    http://www.civilization.ca/cmc/archeo/oracles/norse/40.htm
  74. Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: CBC gave it though!: 'WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Arctic sea ice melted to its lowest level ever this week, shattering a record set in 2005 and continuing a trend spurred by human-caused global warming, scientists said on Thursday. 'It's the biggest drop from a previous record that we've ever had and it's really quite astounding,' said Walt Meier, a research scientist at the U.S. National Snow and Ice Data Center in Colorado.(...) This year's record was caused by a 'perfect storm' of interacting factors, Meier said by telephone. These included a long-running high pressure system that kept skies cloudless over the Arctic, along with a circulation pattern that pushed ice out of the Arctic towards Greenland, instead of letting it circle around the Beaufort Sea north of Alaska as it usually does.'(...)' And yes afterward Mr Meier felt it was necessary to blame it on AGW but high pressure fields and the little cloud coverage has nothing to do with AGW. In fact, all what is happening is perfectly in line with what Prof. Marcel Leroux explains: ''When sea-ice is concerned, or any other phenomenon, the (climatological) reflex would be to search a meteorological reason able to explain the melting. In this case what can explain the summer melting of ice, over the eastern side of Arctic, and over its western side, while the central Arctic, in the prolongation of Greenland, still remains iced ? Meteorologically speaking, the reply is : an advection of warm air, and of warm water, from South (Atlantic and Pacific). Since Arctic is not a closed space, explanations of such an intensified advection constrain to examine the whole circulation around the Arctic area. Consequently, it appears unuseful to evoke a 'local' warming or an anomalous radiation which would forget, just, the Central Arctic because meteorological phenomena are interdependant in the framework of general circulation ...' EDITORS, WHY IS THIS SCIENCE NEVER PUBLISHED IN G&M?
  75. Interested Observer from Vancouver, Canada writes: NeoCONs should acquaintthemselves with the wealth of hard scientific data supporting the reality of global warming before putting pen to paper and displaying such breathtaking ignorance for all to see. ------------ How does one debate someone who ignores the majority of the world's scientists in favour of a handful of skeptics? ----------------- These same marketers that backed big tobacco's attempt to fool people into killing themselves slowly with poison are working for Oil companies who sponsor phony think tank research that is delivered to the public by discredited hacks (retired, or fired, ex-scientists who haven't published peer reviewed research in decades) who then get positive ink in an effort to create the impression that there is a debate going on about global warming when in fact there isn't. -------------- Progressive change and facing challenges requires an open mind and lots of hardwork. Neocons talk a great game when it comes to hardwork, but as my grandfather used to say, 'there are those who talk about hardwork, and then there are those who get up and do it.' In my years on this planet I've never seen a neocon do anything but drag his feet and profit off the weak. You call it realism, I call it cynicism with a dash of narcicism. In fact, I'd say debating anything with the foot dragging neocons simply gives them more ability to slow our response to climate change. We need big shifts in worldwide CO2 and we need them now.
  76. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Oops--

    Thirty minutes worth of posts vanished again.

    Guess the 'semi-moderator' was too lazy to censor on a post-by-post basis, and simply chopped a chunk out.

    This happens all the time....
  77. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Michael Kyoto from Canada writes: News Flash!! The climate is changing! Imagine, the climate warms and cools, warms and cools; ice melts and ice forms--this has been happening for millions of years. Get used to it! '

    Yes. And rivers have been flowing to the sea for millenia. Does this mean floods are no problem? Does this mean that you should jump in the river because how can you drown if rivers have been around for so long?

    I find your claims to be rather irrelevant. We have to deal with GW because it is happening, not worry about whether anything similar has happened in the past ( which isn't much of a worry for today).
  78. Don Wells from Calgary, Canada writes: how much has Antarctica expanded? Nature loves a balance-- This article is very selective with a pretty narrow look--just like the global warming religion!
  79. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    Interested Observer--

    You abuse the word 'neocons'. No matter, your argument is sound.

    Since I am probably what you erroneously call a 'neo-con', you can help me.

    You allege that I must be a knuckle-dragging kindergarten dropout; I admit it's true.

    Since you are such a supreme being, teach me the way.

    I expect 'the way' is the 'usual':

    Just tell me your address, and I will send my life savings to you.

    This is what you are after, isn't it?

    After I do this, will you promise to go away and stop calling me names?

    You are really starting to hurt my feelings...
  80. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: So here it is to show how it is NOT related to GHG or AGW: A reduction in clouds was likely a culprit in this summer’s record Arctic meltdown which temporarily opened up the fabled Northwest Passage, scientists announced this week. While Earth’s rising temperatures fueled by global warming are certainly a factor in the Arctic melt, unusual weather patterns this summer also influenced how much of the sea ice melted. ' You have not shown whether the 'unusual reduction in cloud cover' was caused by change in climate due to global warming. Your claims of 'attribution' to some random magical factor are NOT supported. We live in a world of CAUSE and EFFECT. Even ENSO ( La Nina ) is partially a RESULT of global warming increasing the sea temperature and thus driving more activity in the 'heat engine' that drives these events. i.e the ENSO cycles become stronger as the world warms up. This has been shown by climate modelling to isolate responses in the oceans. The major factor in this may be the Pacific Decadal Oscillation which has been connected to high temperature anomalies in Alaska compared to the rest of the arctic and thus may be related to climate changes from GW that drive the cloud reductions.
  81. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Don Wells from Calgary, Canada writes: how much has Antarctica expanded?'

    Not. It has larger extents of winter sea ice but that is due to lower salinity from continental runoff. The overall mass balance for Antarctica is negative by latest estimates but the continental mass pretty much defines the area extent.

    'Nature loves a balance-- This article is very selective with a pretty narrow look--just like the global warming religion!'

    Well, be sure to tell Nature when you next see him/her that he's not properly compensating for our waste outputs. Maybe you can get him/her to break down plastics as well so that they won't pollute our seas..
  82. Interested Observer from Vancouver, Canada writes: Ian St John . . . keep up the good fight! Thanks.

    Do not go gentle into that good night,
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
    Because their words had forked no lightning they
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
    Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
    And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
    Do not go gentle into that good night.

    Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
    Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

    And you, my father, there on the sad height,
    Curse, bless me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light
  83. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Ian St. John] the fact is, the Earth's climate changes ... and for the past 70 years we've been building habitats in places where we normally shouldn't be able to settle , in numbers that can't sustain it. Take for instance the very cold, very dry or the world's flood plains. Because of cheap energy (oil) we've placed ourselves in very precarious positions that are very exposed to changes in cycles, and now we WANT an answer, there has to be an answer... GW satisfies that answer. And anyone who refutes it it the status of heretic.
  84. Bill M from Canada writes: Ian St. John from Canada writes: ....The major factor in this may be the Pacific Decadal Oscillation which has been connected to high temperature anomalies in Alaska compared to the rest of the arctic and thus may be related to climate changes from GW that drive the cloud reductions.

    Key word being 'may'.
  85. Awash in Cash with Crumbling Infrastructure from Vote-Rich Ontario, Canada writes:

    IO--

    Thanks for quoting Dylan...

    However, I can't find the album it's on.

    I checked Blond on Blond and Highway 61 Revisited. Not there.

    Be a pal, tell me the album...
  86. r b from calgary, Canada writes: The prairies had a scorching summer huh? OK, lets look at the anecdotal 'evidence'.

    In Alberta, after a dismal sping, July was indeed abnormally warm, stores experienced a run on air conditioners of all things.

    However, by August, people were wearing winter jackets in the evenings, we had frost on the pumpkin in parts of Calgary by mid-August, the leaves were turning by the end of August .... So, we had cooler than normal weather up to July, a hot July, then much cooler than normal weather for August.

    If the rest of the hyperbole in the article is an inaccurate as the description of the 'scorching prairie summer' then perhaps it can be discounted as a whole.
  87. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'G Cyler from Saskaville, Canada writes: Too dry, too wet, too cold, too hot, too many hurricanes, too few hurricanes, too much ice, not enough ice, too many tornadoes, too few tornadoes. This all indicates 'global warming'. What an absolute joke. '

    The joke is that you don't understand the issue. Global warming is NOT about a degree warmer. It is about the change in temperature differences between different latitudes and altitudes which then create unstable climate ( climate change). As well, there are the direct melting effect on polar regions and the changes in hydrology ( floods and droughts). These effects are wide ranging and include 'Too dry, too wet, too cold, too hot, too many hurricanes, too few hurricanes, too much ice, not enough ice, too many tornadoes, too few tornadoes', however very little direct attribution is made in the SCIENCE. Only the 'trends' are reported by science so don't take any claims by the illiterati too seriously.

    'Ice a mile thick as far south as Chicago (last ice age) ... I bet the cave men wanted some 'global warming' then. So all they did was rev up all their hummers! '

    If you say so and I have to admit that you are unique in your claims.
  88. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: omg! someone actually said the unexpected La Nina FITS the GW models?

    see what I mean, and the Texas storm that brought snow to Ontario and Quebec ALSO fits. Of course, it's all clear to me now.
  89. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Bill M from Canada writes: Key word being 'may'.

    Well, we don't know enough about climate to attribute any single event yet. There are beginnings of the science. You can help if you want and have a computer available.
    http://tinyurl.com/2q528z

    However, that said, even the PDO is just a 'pattern' in the climate, not a thing in itself. We need to find the direct relationship before we can assess the cause/effect relationship of GW to any climate change itself.

    That is NOT to say that we don't know that climate change is happening ( based on statistical validation). i.e If it hurts when you do this, maybe the problem is doing this.. even if you don't know what exactly causes the pain sensation...
  90. Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: Ian St John refers always to models and if Mr StJohn had any credentials others that parroting the IPCC, he would know that NONE of the MODELS are considered by any serious climatologist as having any levels of accuracy in prediction. More, Ian StJohn does not know about atmospheric circulation patterns and only condone by ignorance the Ferrel tri cellular model that has been dumped by climatologists many years ago, only to be used by computer modellers... Ian St John always brushes away facts and data when it doesn't suit his AGW mantra: indeed what can he say against high pressure fields? Nothing. By the way, it is also high pressure fields that are responsible for sahelian drought since the 1970s. It was again a discussion Mr St John refused to have since he would have received the longer end of the stick. So whatever Mr St John writes, the fact is that the Globe and Mail editorial board NEVER offers the readily available explanation for the 2007 ice thaw but continues to use this event in their politically motivated campaign, more, their journalists do amalgamate Peace Nobel Prize a political award with real Nobel winners such As Dr Albert Fert and others: NO IPCCC science has won any Nobel in Physics or Chemistry! The Globe and Mail once again is taken the hand in the cookie jar of AGW propaganda. Once again it has been exposed! Good day gentlemen.
  91. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: omg! someone actually said the unexpected La Nina FITS the GW models?'

    No. This was an independent limited model, not associated with GW that merely studied the ENSO effect itself.

    'see what I mean, and the Texas storm that brought snow to Ontario and Quebec ALSO fits. Of course, it's all clear to me now.'

    Really? You should tell the climatologists as it isn't clear to them. The best information on the cause of the unusual snowfall is a paper on historical trends in hurricanes that shows that a few millenia ago, the 'bermuda high' moved south, thus converting a generally west to east weather movement in the Midwest/Ontario to enhance weather moving up the Mississippi valley ( warm wet gulf weather) to collide with frigid northern air. It also caused hurricanes to move south of Cuba ( as we have seen in the last years) rather than moving up the East Coast.

    I can get the refernce if you want. How this ties in, I don't know since the last time it happened there was no GW, but all that shows is that it CAN happen, not what triggers it or what triggered it THIS time.
  92. Steve Durocher from Windsor, Ontario, Canada writes: Is this Environment Canada's actual list or an Irwin Allen 'Master of Disaster' script?!
    The doomsday indoctrination continues unimpeded.
    Today's flavor of kool-aid comes in Scary Black Cherry.