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For Afghan police, staying alive is the first priority

COLIN FREEZE

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:35 PM EDT 15/01/08

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  1. Brendan Caron from Vancouver, Canada writes: The missing of an item in yesterday's NYTimes that detailed the trials and tribulations of being a policeman in the regions around the Pakistan-Afghanistan border that is a main transit point for Taliban/alQuaeda infiltration, from the perspective of the captain in charge for several years, is of interest. Their conditions are deplorable. Their salaries never make it to them because the higher
    ups, purportedly, are pocketing it for their own benefit. Sometimes the editors just seem to miss the big ones carried in other new agencies. Tactically speaking the police are sitting ducks because their equipment nor salaries are forthcoming.
  2. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Very informative article. Particularly important is that the police are not locals, don't speak Pashtu and are Shia. Until the police are locals there is zero chance of success for them. The CF should take over the recruitment, training and equipping of the ANP in Kandahar province. There are lots of jobless able bodied men available. We could also ship in thousands of sacks of wheat with Canadian flags on them and have the ANP distribute them... Full credit to our soldiers who have been living at police posts. Very dangerous assignment.
  3. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: "The Pashmul squad's main job is to guard a strip of highway between two Canadian military bases, where they are tasked with spotting roadside bombs, running vehicle checkpoints, and inspecting surrounding villages."

    The ANP are doing military work that should be done by military personnel. Policemen are civilians, not soldiers. Blurring the lines between military and civilian personnel means that these civilians take the hit for what NATO forces should be doing.

    Note the statistics: Since October 7, 2001, a total of 759 NATO/U.S. soldiers have died in Afghanistan, many from non-combat related injuries. Yet over 900 Afghan police have died in violence this year alone! The strategy of throwing poorly-trained, poorly-equipped civilian policemen into militarily unsecured areas is unethical, and deadly.

    "Local residents are almost all Pashtun, but the officers are all ethnic Hazaras..."

    Unbelievable! This isn't a case of enhancing security; it's a case of throwing gasoline on the fire.

    There is bad blood between the Hazara and the Pashtun. No one who wasn't completely desperate, or who didn't give a flying about the safety of those Hazara, would put them in such a situation. The Hazara will be viewed by the locals with deep suspicion, if not outright enmity. Even if there wasn't a war on, the Hazara would be in danger. And what are the chances that the Hazara police will set aside their blood feud and with neutrality according to law?

    A similar situation exists in the Afghan Army. NATO can't get local Pashtun's to enforce security in their own area. Understandably, they're reluctant to fight and kill their own people for NATO's cause. So with both the army and the police, NATO has to bring in people of different ethnic backgrounds from elsewhere in Afghanistan. You can imagine the typical outcome. Actually, you don't have to imagine it; just read the story. Policemen are dying by the hundreds.
  4. Kathleen Degelder from AberdeenUSA, Canada writes: Jar al-Islam versus dar al-Harb.------Also in Bangkok, Thailand. Suspected Muslim insurgents killed eight soldiers today in a bombing in a shooting attack in one of Thailand's restive southern provinces. The soldiers were on a routine morning patrol in the Chanae district of Narathiwat when a bomb hidden on the road exploded as their vehicle passed. Insurgents attacked the vehicle with a barrage of gunfire. Leaving no survivors. More than 2,700 people have been killed in Thailand's Muslim-majority southernmost provinces. Source Associated Press. ----Also suicide attack on Afghan luxury hotel killed two guards in Kabul.
  5. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: The lack of equipment and pay indicate that the US is not serious about creating any security in Afghanistan .
    The use of Hazaras in Pashtun areas indicates that the present conflict in Afghanistan is at root a civil/tribal war
  6. A good Canadian from Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Canada writes: "The Pashmul squad's main job is to guard a strip of highway between two Canadian military bases, where they are tasked with spotting roadside bombs, running vehicle checkpoints, and inspecting surrounding villages."

    The ANP are doing military work that should be done by military personnel. Policemen are civilians, not soldiers. Blurring the lines between military and civilian personnel means that these civilians take the hit for what NATO forces should be doing.
    ****************************************************

    Richard, speaking of roles: what is the role of police? They are to enforce peace and ensure security of a civilian population. That is not an army's role. Here at home, the CF does not investigate crime, arrest criminals, and patrol nieghbourhoods to ensure everyone is safe inside Canada. That is what police are for. Why is it such a leap to assume that the Afghan police forces should do those same roles in thier country?
  7. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes: a good Canadian, the role of the police is to enforce civilian law. My view is that guarding a road between two Canadian military bases and spotting roadside bombs are unquestionably military roles. Running vehicle checkpoints would be a civilian role, IF they were just checking for driver's licenses. But if apprehension of combatants is the intent, then now we're talking a military role again. Likewise with inspections in surrounding villages.

    Let's be clear; if there wasn't a full-blown armed conflict occurring, it might be reasonable to use police in security roles which blend into military ones. But there is a full-blown conflict happening; and trying to deal with it 'on the cheap' by throwing civilians against it is not acceptable.

    Again I state: number of NATO/U.S. soldiers killed since October 7, 2001: 759. Number of Afghan police killed in the insurgency in 2007 alone: over 900. The use of civilian police to fight insurgent combatants is unethical, and deadly to the Afghan police.
  8. by polar from Canada writes: Richard Roskell, yes, and there is plenty of gasoline to throw on the fire in that part of the world. And it doesn't look like as though the Americans are there to win. They are there to set everybody against everybody. Pasthuns vs. Hazaras, Shiite vs. Sunni, Sunni vs. Kurds, Saudis vs Iran, Lebanon vs Syria. And they're succeding. As long they're all busy killing one another the U.S. controls their resources. If I'm not mistaken Iraqi oil is being pumped out. Using Iraqi oil to finance the wars was part of the neocons' plans. This situation will continue to stagnate for years to come since whoever becomes president will not be able to pull the troops out. Sure it's expensive, but today they have funneled $20 billions worth of missiles and armaments to the Saudis' armed forces. It seems they can afford it. Not only can Bush afford it, he is also sleeping with a clear conscience since the American soldiers getting killed are not the sons and daughters of CEOs, oil billionares and politicians.
  9. A good Canadian from Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes: Let's be clear; if there wasn't a full-blown armed conflict occurring, it might be reasonable to use police in security roles which blend into military ones. But there is a full-blown conflict happening; and trying to deal with it 'on the cheap' by throwing civilians against it is not acceptable.
    ****************************

    As the unrest in Afghanistan is NOT a full blown armed conflict between waring nations, but an internal civil war/counterinsurgency, your arguement above supports the NATO proper use of Afghan police.
  10. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: 'Fraid not, agC. Not even in the legal sense, and most definitely not in any ethical sense.
  11. Udom Thongpai from Victoria, Canada writes: Kathleen Degelder, The situation in southern Thailand is not really comparable to Afghanistan, etc. The southern provinces affected are majority Muslim in a Buddhist monocultural state. In Oct 2004 the Thai army confronted protesters at a Thai police station in Narathiwat, shooting dead seven and packing dozens into the back of trucks for transport to a detention center far away. Due to overcrowding 78 of those died of suffocation along the way. Many others had serious medical problems but were held without medical attention. This resulted in many amputations. To date no one has been punished for the incident. The deterioration of the situation in the south is the result of consistent bungling on the part of successive Thai governments.
  12. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Keeping peace is a role that the Police in Pakistan, India, Afghanistan, et al are not accustomed to.

    Able bodied joined the Force in these countries to collect the loot from the hapless populace. Almost every action or step could be made out to have been against some law, hence a ground for extorting bribe.

    Now, the Police have to worry about their behind.

    What a turn around. The Lord never fails to amaze me.

  13. don't be a wimp; win hearts and minds til 2011 from Canada writes:
    Where is the "neocynic" when Canadians need him . Some reports have the warlords paying up to 100,000 men in their "disbanded" local armies ? ( $25 - $30 / day ) Police / Army recruits get $3 / day ?

    Some reports have stated that the Butto family fortune was frozen and was released as part of her return agreement ? Warlords are running the elected gov. ministries , have disarmed(?)disbanded(?)high payed (?)local tribal recruits and are not only rich but getting richer ?

    Glad we live in a free country , with a free press and an open independant gov. report coming to help this debate ?
  14. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    by polar: While it is true that the Republicans are throwing petrol on the simmering fires, somehow it is not working.

    The Sunni-Shia civil war in Iraq has not come about as planned. In fact, the two sects are co-operating more than before, to the credit of the leadership of both sects.

    Saudi Arabia and Iran are coming closer. For the first time in history, the Saudi Royals invited the Iranian loudmouth for the Hajj last month.

    In Pakistan, the country is united anew against foreigners. The most popular theory after the assassination of Ms. Bhutto and the Police carnage in Lahore is that the US/Israeli agents are tryiing to create a civil war in Pakistan.

    After 1,300 year of Shia-Sunni estrangement, the Arab Street is enamoured with Shia Hezbollah. Even the Sunni Hamas is coming under the Shia influence.

    The Republican Religious Right should try something different - Love and Peace. Results guaranteed.
  15. Birdy Num, Num from Canada writes: The Afghan mission is under resourced and has a small footprint. The inability of the Police to maintain law and order is a reflection of that.

    Small footprint:

    defn. 1: Ratio of troops to civilians.
    600,000 peacekeepers would be needed were Afghanistan to have the same peacekeeper-to-population ratio as existed initially in Kosovo. There are about 45,000 coalition forces in Afghanistan. Iraq has a population of 18.5 million, Afghanistan 29 million. You do the math.

    Defn. 2: Ratio of troops to geographic space: The U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan are trying to secure a country that is a third again the size of Iraq.

    Under resourced definition: capability matched to objectives ie fighting a three block war in a failed state situation: Bosnia was stabilized by the deployment of 60,000 foreign troops ... $1390 per citizen in international aid, while Afghanistan gets only $42 per capita. On a per capita basis we have spent 25 times less than we spent in Bosnia, and deployed one-fiftieth as many troops
  16. A good Canadian from Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Canada writes: 'Fraid not, agC. Not even in the legal sense, and most definitely not in any ethical sense.
    ***************************
    So you are an expert in military affairs, and a lawyer? I ask because experts say it is an internal civil war/counterinsurgency.
  17. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: agC, I was refuting your claim that, "your arguement above supports the NATO proper use of Afghan police."

    I dispute that my statements support that use in either a legal or an ethical sense. Beyond that, all I've said is that the war in Afghanistan is a "full-blown conflict."

    But I'd be interested to hear the expert legal and military opinions that the conflict in Afghanistan- which constantly crosses over an international border, and which is prosecuted by some 36 international nations, is just an "internal civil war."

    Please provide links to the sources of those opinions.
  18. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: BNN, there is no disputing the fact that the Afghanistan military effort is grossly under-resourced. Likewise, it's indisputable that the aid side of the equation is even MORE under-resourced.

    The West hasn't committed either the military or humanitarian resources to bring about a stable Afghanistan. That's because a stable Afghanistan is not the primary interest. The number one goal is security and power for the Western nations themselves. Achieving a stable and functional Afghanistan would require expenditures a factor of ten larger than what we see now on the military side and a factor of 100 larger than what we see on the aid side.

    We make war on the cheap, for our own interests, and make the Afghans suffer for it. There will be a price to pay for that, down the road.
  19. D . from Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Canada , interesting how any argument which doesnt agree with your point of view can only be regarded as "opinions", yet you expect all who read your posts, to regard YOUR opinions as fact.
  20. Brendan Caron from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bravo for the Vandoos. Insightful, intelligent information that is accepted by people who have for centuries used force as a means of building wealth. Getting the good ones and keeping them good is the first step in taking things into your own hands which is what they, the Afghanis, are doing under the mentoring of our troops. There is nothing like reality.
  21. Richard Roskell from Canada writes: D., usually by the time they're nine or ten, most people learn how to recognize the difference between an opinion and a fact. I speak my opinions in a direct way, and count on the reader to have the discernment of at least a ten year old. Have I overshot the mark in your case?

    If you or anyone else dispute something I say, then just speak up. Best to have your facts straight, though. If you correct an error of mine, or simply improve my knowledge, I'll be grateful.

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