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Language crusaders revitalize dying tongues

PATRICK WHITE

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 6:37 AM EST 24/01/08

As Canada's native dialects slide toward obsolescence, aboriginal groups are finding resourceful ways to ensure linguistic posterity ...Read the full article

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  1. Jenny Rodgers from Canada writes: The sewing needle through the tongue is an out and out lie. Where has responsibility in journalism gone, there certainly is none used in this article.
  2. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: Why should I, the taxpayer, fund the native languages? If they want to preserve their language, then they should do it on their own. They should take responsibility for it. And I don't want to see another native money settlement for it.
  3. Ingrid The Viking from Toronto, Canada writes: As a native Nova Scotian and an English speaker, I firmly believe that learning other languages enhances your understanding of the world and heightens your appreciation of other cultures. I lament the fact that my Dad never taught me his Danish dialect, and as a result feel a disconnect from that part of my heritage. We should enthusiastically support anyone keen enough to try and revive a language that is on the verge of disappearing. Canada should be filled with proud and confident citizens who cherish their heritage. We will be a very boring country if everyone loses the special insights that language, culture and heritage can bring.
  4. rhapsody inblue from Montreal, Canada writes: Why should we as taxpayers fund this part of our history? I'll tell you why. When this government can send millions and millions of dollars to every third world country, send our young men to fight other countries wars and have fatalities to boot. then they sure can spend some here in Canada. For too long the native people have been insulted, disrespected and yes, you bet I believe that needle bit. There are a lot more horror stories about what these people went through, but like some countries, aren't whining and complaining about what happened to them in their past. This is their country, they were here long before the white man, they are FIRST NATION and always will be. Before any of you make negative judgments, I suggest you get to know some, you might be amazed at what you can learn from the elders, they are a highly intelligent people and think not only with their heads but with their hearts. I am not a native but the way this world is going, I wish I were.
  5. Randal Oulton from Canada writes: I don't mind funding this. There's lots of things I do mind, but think of it this way: at least this leaves some solid results behind for generations to look at and use. It's not a transient paper report generated by so many funding initiatives. So as spending initiatives go, at least this one would produce concrete results for generations to come to use. We could do a lot worse -- and certainly have.
  6. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Recording languages and posting them to specialized internet sites is the best way to save dying languages and allow them to be passed on. It is also relatively inexpensive and would be an excellent cultural proejct for the Secretary of State to fund for all of Canada's peoples.
  7. g h from Canada writes: As a taxpayer and a non-native, I have absolutely no problem with the government funding initiatives to save and re-vitalize native languages in this country. The government wasted public money when it set out to deliberately eradicate native language and culture; now suck it up and take responsibility for restoring that which you attempted to destroy.

    On a different note: on the higway heading west out of Salmon Arm, BC, you come to a side road called First Nations Road. About a kilometre late you come another one called Second Nations Road. Makes me smile every time.
  8. jojo savard from Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: Why should I, the taxpayer, fund the native languages?

    ...because you, the taxpayer, detsroyed the native languages. It's time to fess up and rebuild the language communities your taxes helped destroy. You break it, you fix it.

    Social justice is completely beyond you right wing yahoos isn't it?
  9. jojo savard from Canada writes: Jenny Rodgers from Canada writes: The sewing needle through the tongue is an out and out lie.

    and you know this because....
    or are you simply in denial because it is too horrible to believe?
  10. Bruce Haddad from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm sorry but I can't help but feel this is a waste of time. Languages with one native speaker left trying to be revitalized? What is the point of that? If the few words with no english equivalent are important, I imagine they could be integrated into history class. Learning a language takes an incredible amount of effort, why would you spend all that effort if there is no one to talk to as a reward? Why would you want to learn a language with 14 remaining native speakers when you could learn madarin, arabic or spanish? There are thousands and thousands of languages in the world, does anyone really beleive that a majority of them have a future? I'm not opposed to these programs, people obviously have the right to learn whatever languages they want, but this does seem like an enormous waste of time.
  11. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: rhapsody... are you for real? What does WWI and WWII have to do with native languages? Natives should take responsibility for preserving their own languages. Nobody went to their reserves and stopped everybody from speaking their native tongue. Now you're saying we shouldn't teach them English.
    BTW, some of them don't even have a written language - is that my fault too? You are obviously naive, along with these other posters.
    jojo thinks taxes destroyed native languages? They don't pay taxes. Maybe all of you should donate your own money to natives and tell them to allocate it to preserving their language...
  12. Craig White from Canada writes: Language is something you either use or lose..
  13. J Lee from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Maybe if they actually studied and tried to graduate and learned some of the basics like other Canadians (English, French, math, history, science, biology, physics, geography, etc) they would be able join the ranks of working Canadians or even go on to post-secondary education.
  14. Jeff Hubbell from toronto, Canada writes: I don't have a problem with funding the preservation of native languages. Every time one dies out we've lost a bit of our universal heritage, not just native Canadian heritage.
    The European Union has set aside funds for the protection of certain minority language groups -- even some that have died off (e.g. Cornish, Manx -- which are slowly being brought back and taught in schools). Obviously they think it's worthwhile to protect and preserve.
    I'm sorry that here in Ontario that most Iroquoian languages are either extinct or nearly extinct. I think there's perhaps one or two Tuscarora speakers left in the country?
    Kind of sad, really. If we can reverse this decline, shouldn't we?
  15. Mel Patterson from toronto, Canada writes: What an utter waste of time and money and ......for what? So a few people can, with great difficulty, barely learn to speak a forgotten language that now has no useful purpose and never will have. Teach them a useful liife skill instead of a useless, forgotten language.
  16. g h from Canada writes: Counterspinner writes "Nobody went to their reserves and stopped everybody from speaking their native tongue." Wrong. The government sent Indian Agents to the reserves, where they forcibly removed children who were of school age or sometimes even younger, and sent them to residential schools. I have a friend who was taken from his village in northern BC at age 6. He didn't see any of family again till age 16, when he returned home (minus all of his teeth due to lack of dental services) only to learn that his brother had died in a house fire years earlier. This kind of evil wasn't just being perpetrated in the 1860's; it was going on well into the 1960's.

    You have no comprehension of the damage done to these families and communities. Even worse, you don't even want to try. All you can see, like some others on this board, is your own hate. You're happier remaining blind to all else.
  17. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: g h - you are obviously blinded by guilt. You included my quote and then went on some guilty tangent. I still say no one went to the reserves and stopped people from speaking theri own language.
    Why didn't he speak his own language again after he was 16 and back on the reserve? Did the taxpayers start the fire, too?
  18. ex banker from St. John's, Canada writes: I'm learning Italian because I firmly believe the ability to speak another language is, well, cool. But I could care less about French. In fact I hate the way the federal government cow tows to Quebec and forces French down our throats. So I'm learning another European language instead.

    As far as spending federal money on preserving native heritage and language, well, I'm a redneck but on this point I think any money spent is good money spent. If preserving and enhancing native culture can maybe stop the cycle of poverty in which aboriginal people seem to be spiralling down then spend away. Some self esteem building is in order to help stop the self destructive behavior many aboriginal communities possess.

    Heck, we white folks have it easy: we get to live in one culture. Imagine being torn between two.
  19. talk to the hand from Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: rhapsody... are you for real? What does WWII have to do with native languages?

    classic ignorance! please give us some more. you're funny.. clueless, but funny.

    i bet you think we fought the russians in ww2.....
  20. g h from Canada writes: Counterspinner: I am not blinded by guilt, I am armed with facts. That was one anecdote from hundreds I could relate.
    And my friend Jack did in fact speak his language again when he returned, and remains fluent to this day. He is now 66.
    The problem is, you clearly have no experience or knowledge to draw upon whatsoever; you're trying to float an argument by over-simplifying and riding on your general resentment of Aboriginal people.
  21. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: I see the point in learning Huron, if you believe you are one (even though its a dead language), as hobby maybe. 'See the point' of course shouldn't be taken to mean 'would do it myself', as there is only so much time and so many other, more useful things, to learn -- like, for example, a language spoken by people currently alive. For what its worth, my ancestors were Cornishmen and their language died about the time Huron did, for much the same reason. Learning and speaking a different language provided for greater opportunity, and more effective communication. That, of course, is the real reaons Indian dialects have fallen on hard times; otherwise how to explain the extinction of languages before residential schools, and their continue troubles afterwards. Lets not even touch the fact that most Indians never went to residential schools . . .

    What I can't see, at all, is providing government funding for the effort, as some sort of social re-engineering project. Yes indeed, Hebrew was brought back from extinction and Yiddish is reviving. How much of the credit for that, however, can be attributed to government money, before the creation of the state of Israel anyway? How much did all the recovery of Irish really improve the lives of the citizens of Dublin, anyway Given that most of them don't chose to speak it, and never did, I'd say 'not much'.

    I expect that this project is really yet another pork barrel calculated to benefit a few activists.
  22. Denis Love from Victoria BC, Canada writes: When a language goes, it's not coming back. But is it up to me to fund it? No way!

    I spent time hanging around treaty tables for years and met chiefs that didn't understand their own bands language. MOst of the folks didn't either,

    One fellow used tro speak Coast Salish at such events and translate. Willy was very long winded!

    Let's not forget other groups work to keep thier languages and don't get funding to do so.

    I Lived on the reserve show in the picture. I would have preferred seeing the buildings the members live in , fixed up prior to spening money somewhere else. Some were and still are shacks. Rioght in the middle of a mujicipality whose bylaws are not used due to the Indian act, If the band members want to keep thier old dialect, fill your boots. But the split in who gets what depending on family connections is a big deal that badly needs addressing. A great number of Indinas are turning their backs on the reserve system and I do congratulate them for doing so. And yes, the ones outside, do pay taxes.
  23. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Oh. English does have a word to indicate the entire inheritance passed from parent to child, unimpaired. Its a good word, very emotive, stolen from the Romans who were very big on the concept. The word is 'patrimony'.
  24. Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: Bruce Haddad is absolutley right. There is no point in this exercise. What can you do -- force people to learn obsolete languages?
    Put the money into the future.
  25. Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: Hey "talk to the hand from Canada"

    Maybe we didn't fight the Russian in WWII but up until 22 June 1941 they were on friendly terms with the country with which we were at war.
  26. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: g h - You were the one who brought up "Jack" when talking about losing the language. Now you admit that Jack did speak his language when he returned to the reserve. It looks like you have absolutely no argument at all for taxpayers to look after native language. After all, if Jack could do it, so can every other native and hence, no need for taxpayers to fund native languages. Thank you very much for proving my argument.
  27. rhapsody inblue from Montreal, Canada writes: I can see by some responses that you did not get my meaning when I said that the Feds are sending millions and millions of dollars to third world countries. How much do you think is being spent in aid, in the military, in politicians pockets? Let them take this money that they are so willing to send to the so-called poor countries and use it for what is needed in Canada, yeah, that includes trying to save our heritage whether it be white or red. In my opinion, anyone who resents money being spent to better and improve conditions in Canada is a lamebrain.
    nuff said
  28. Canada First and Always from Canada writes: The more languages one speaks, the more educated one becomes and, if nothing else, one learns more about his mother tongue because he's learning grammar all over again. Learning another language is NEVER a waste of taxpayer money as it just elevates the level of education and literary.

    Frankly, I would like to see more english taught (and learned) too. From some of the incredibly bad spelling one sees from a few posters, the one language they speak seems to be dying as well.

    Loose for lose
    it's for its
    whose for who's
    parliment for parliament
    cirtisize for criticize

    I aks you - iz dis rite??
  29. Canada First and Always from Canada writes: Should read "literacy", not "literary". Serves me right for not reading my post over before posting it.
  30. Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: rhapsody thinks we shouldn't aid poor countries and spend it to save native languages. What i am trying to say is the natives aren't taking the effort to save their languages, so why should I? And trying to leverage the entire topic into this all-encompassing "better and improve conditions in canada" is a very lame argument.
  31. Canada First and Always from Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: rhapsody thinks we shouldn't aid poor countries and spend it to save native languages. What i am trying to say is the natives aren't taking the effort to save their languages, so why should I? And trying to leverage the entire topic into this all-encompassing "better and improve conditions in canada" is a very lame argument.
    _________

    Natives??? What are you, an old Bwana from Frank "Bring 'em back alive" Buck's day?? Lol. Your opinion is just as valid as anyone's, but just that - an opinion only - maybe right, maybe wrong.
  32. Kyle Huntingdon from Waterloo, Canada writes: Criag Cooper writes: "Maybe we didn't fight the Russian in WWII but up until 22 June 1941 they were on friendly terms with the country with which we were at war. "

    Just as a point on that, they are the ones who really defeated the Germans. They lost more in single battles then the Western Allies lost in the whole war.
  33. Dafydd Brws from toronto, Canada writes: Our government wasted money forcing people to speak English.
  34. Iain's Opinion from Canada writes: LOL! Just like our modern society to preserve that which should die a natural death. If a culture is viable, it will survive.
  35. rhapsody inblue from Montreal, Canada writes: I will always maintain, CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.
  36. S Lucht from Canada writes: This initiative is very useful and I applaud it. Not only will young members of the first nations be introduced to an important aspect of their culture and heritage, but information on these languages will be preserved for linguistic study and may shed more light on our understanding of the first nations themselves. Taxpayers should provide funding because it will enhance our knowledge pool and possibly even provide a societal benefit. Worthwhile, if you ask me.
  37. Mariposa Belle from Leacockland, Canada writes: Myths,legends and history enrich Canada.

    We should pay more attention to these than the Greeks and Romans.

    And we should preserve the languages. we don't know when the next language group is going to show up. Welcome to hip-hop and UFOs in Texas.

    we
  38. Trish Monague from Christian Island, Canada writes: I believe that english speaking people did have something to say when they were told that they everyone had to learn to speak french. People were in an uproar over that. Our First Nation people were told that they had to learn to speak english and then the Federal government took it a step further by saying, start beating them if they use their own language maybe we've found a way to get rid of the Indian people all to together. It says in the article that the last residential schools closed in 1996, I disagree with that. The Federal government is still trying erase us from the future because in some of our communities some of our children are still getting shipped to mainstream schools where we are still perpetuating the same ideals as the residential school. We remove our children as early as 12 years old from their families, their language, their culture and their communities and expected them to maintain themselves in amidst racism and prejudices. I believe that if you don't know what happen on indian reservations that you really shouldn't comment because you just show your ignorance. Our schools on reserve told our children that they couldn't speak their language, in 1921 a memo came from the government saying we weren't allowed to meet in groups why because we were being what we could do and what we couldn't do. I and six brothers and sister and like many other First Nation children were taken from our communities and put into CAS in hopes of turning us into non-natives. I love myself and our communities enough to stand up for change and to make our First Nation communities different then how they were in the past.
  39. Jeff Hubbell from toronto, Canada writes: How's yer Welsh, Dafydd? That was a language that was in real danger of dying out by the early 1950s, along with the Manx and the Cornish languages in Britain. But the government invested money and people invested effort in preserving the language, and now it thrives.

    How much of Canada is named for First Nations words? Toronto, Ottawa, Oshawa, Quebec, Tsawassin, Nanaimo, Saskatchewan, Niagara, Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Iqaluit, Passamaquoddy Bay, Nipissing, Tuktoyaktuk, Ontario, Manitoba...just for starters. It's ingrained in our place names, it's part of who we are as Canadians anyway. Why let it die out when you don't have to?
    It's part of our history, something we don't pay enough attention to in this country.
  40. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: "Recording languages and posting them to specialized internet sites is the best way to save dying languages and allow them to be passed on." I don't really agree. The best way (perhaps the only way) to save dying languages is to have small children spend enough time with older native speakers.
  41. jacob derksen from Victoria, Canada writes: I'm amazed at the ignorance of some of the writers to this forum, but encouraged by the wisdom and compassion in at least a few of the others.
    The importance of preserving and revitalizing endangered languages can not be over-emphasized. With regard to funding these projects - in Canada, at least - perhaps we can quit subsidizing corporate welfare bums. Given the extent of the resource extraction from many aboriginal traditional territories and communities in Canada it might be fitting to have the C.E.O. fat cats in logging and mining paying up as they've been siphoning off more than their fair share for far too long. Personally, I quite like the idea of repatriating taxpayer monies from our former politicians who really don't deserve the pensions they're receiving. (Brian Mulroney and Paul Martin - to name only two! - sucking at the public teat!? Absolutely criminal!) That money could be put to good use in so many ways, not least funding First Nations' heritage language programs and maybe subsidizing university educations for those people whose comments so clearly indicate their ignorance of Canadian history. If only we could teach compassion and understanding too...
  42. MJ Patchouli from Regina, Canada writes: Seems to me that studying a dead language is for academics, not for the mainstream. It will not return culture any more than killing a buffalo will. Humanity continues to evolve, and some cultures take a hit while others thrive. That's life.

    An interesting note: I contracted a fairly well-known aboriginal woman here a few years ago and she told me a fascinating story she was researching -- she said that her relatives who had been in residential schools in the 20th century spoke of using an unspoken language they developed to speak to each other at night, since their aboriginal language was forbidden -- it was a sign language. She said it had been shared and taught and used across Canada.

    I love that story -- that's the story of human triumph. That's the Handmaid's Tale -- you can forbid the students from speaking a language, but you cannot stop them from communicating privately.
  43. Lawrence Koch from Canada writes: Would it be possible for the Globe to be a little less casual and unscientific about the use of the word 'dialect'? There's something a bit condescending (or maybe it's just an attempt to sound more intelligent) about referring to Canada's indigenous languages as 'native dialects'. Dialects of what?

    The Globe seems to have a similar blind spot when it comes to non-European languages - everything spoken in the developing world particularly suddenly has to be called an 'African dialect', etc.
  44. Bill Needle from Canada writes: My ancestors were German, Scots, and Welsh. I do not speak German, Gaelic or Welsh and see no need whatsoever to understand any of them to have an appreciation of their cultures.

    If natives wish to speak their native tongues that is fine by me but don't expect me to pay or understand you.

    The rality is that English is the only international tool of communication and it will continue to grow further. Spending time on dead languages is like nailing jello to a wall.
  45. Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: crusaders are icky.

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