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Aboriginal numbers soar, census shows

BRODIE FENLON

Globe and Mail Update and Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 8:00 PM EST 15/01/08

Population of Indian, Métis and Inuit tops one-million mark; 45 per cent increase over a decade ...Read the full article

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  1. Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Aren't we all Metis? Some way or somehow. Most of us.
  2. Gronck the realist from Canada writes: I agree with Paul Bytown. The designation 'Metis' is bogus.
  3. al goguen from Victoria, B.C, Canada writes: The new Lieutenant Governor of B.C has just announced that his pet project will be to help the literacy project amongst preschool children,
    not only in the cities but in all the Aboriginal communities. I believe it's a wonderful idea but will the parents spend time to read to their children.
    If the parents don't read, they might think that it is a waste of time to read to their children instead of watching TV. However it's an excellent idea, and if only an handful learn how to read at that age, there's a chance for them to further their education.
  4. Sydney R from Canada writes: I assume much of the increase is from the inclination of more Canadians to claim their aboriginal heritage. In NL for example the confederation deal with Canada made no provisions for aboriginal rights til the recent decade. Large areas of Labrador are Inuit, Innu or Metis . As well as area populations of NL traditionally tied to Labrador. And island areas repopulated by maritime Micmac. This will in reality have financial advantages for many Canadians reclaiming aboriginal heritage.
  5. Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: I don't have any Metis in me Paul.
  6. J. R. from Halifax, Canada writes: Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: 'Aren't we all Metis? Some way or somehow. Most of us.'

    No. Being Metis does not simply mean that you have some aboriginal ancestory, Metis are a distinct cultural group, descended from a defined group of ancestors (mostly Cree and French) in certain areas. They have a traditional culture, religous and spiritual traditions, and even their own language developed over three hundred years. The designation is not 'bogus.'

    I also seriously doubt that 'most' Canadians have some aboriginal ancestory. It's probably true that a very large number of Canadians of 5 or 6 generations have some aboriginal ancestory that they are likely unaware of, but the same is not true of more recent immigrants, who make up a huge percentage of this country.
  7. TruePatriotLover fromCanada from Canada writes: I don't see what practical use surveys of this type have, except to promote claims for more government funding and draining taxpayer resources. In my neighbourhood, probably 50% of the people are of Asian heritage who are happy with being ordinary Canadians and aren't calling for targeted government handouts to propel them from their disadvantaged status as new immigrants.
  8. J G from Ontario Mexico, Canada writes: Many are claiming status and some I know are stretching their `heritage`and in some cases downright bogus for tax breaks etc.
  9. Sydney R from Canada writes: I've noticed that many genealogy forums and sites which I visit are increasingly used by Canadians and ex-Canadians worldwide to affirm their aboriginal ties, real or bogus.
  10. Derek Holtom from Swan River, Canada writes: J G from Ontario Mexico, Canada writes: Many are claiming status and some I know are stretching their `heritage`and in some cases downright bogus for tax breaks etc.

    this would be an accurate statement. There are government jobs and government programs you simply cannot access unless you have some First Nations heritage
  11. Susie Q from Canada writes: Hey TruePatriotLover, we didn't steal land from Asian people.
  12. Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes: TruePatriotLover - I don't understand how you compare the natives with new immigrants from China.

    We stole the native's land. The Six Nations have a legal claim to the Grand River basin which includes a lot of industry and many communities. We continue to negotiate in bad faith. A deal is a deal unless you're a native.
    I'm surprised by the amount of racism and stupidity that natives must endure.
  13. G From Canada from Saskatoon, Canada writes: 1.1 million, hmm what economists and aboriginal groups have been saying for some time now, this demographic is quickly becoming an economic force, and once the social issues plaguing them is rectified..and it will be rectified, those sitting on the sidlelines now will be asking themselves why they did not act sooner.
  14. Allan Eizinas from Simcoe, Canada writes: .
    I suspect that as more and more Indian land claims result in $multi-billion settlements that more and more individuals will discover their aboriginal roots.
  15. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: Why do 8 out of 10 natives live in Ontario or the 4 western provinces? The article didn't give any reason why the populations don't have high numbers in Quebec, the Atlantic Provinces or Newfoundland and Labrodor.

    One thing I noticed about living in Vancouver for most of my adult life is that the Native population is much more visible there then here in T.O. where I now reside.
  16. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow. Big jumps in the population. If this is the case, we need to get our act together in regards to schooling and social programs for these people. We've failed at this for far too long. What's the high school drop out rate among aboriginals, like 50%? If this is a huge growing segment of the population, we can't simply ignore this massive social problem as a problem at the margins. We need to try some new policy here because obviously whatever we have been doing for the past century has been a complete disaster.

    Also, 'We are not Canadian citizens'? Fine, then stop accepting Canadian money, services, and trading with Canadians as if you were Canadian citizens then. Fair's fair.
  17. Randy D from Canada writes: More economic rape of the few taxpahers left.
  18. James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: Now that they are a distinct group, all they have to do is get some democracy in the coterie operated by First Nations, Big Chief Phil Fontaine.

    One person one vote might be a start for elections. Then they might get ridings set aside so they can have some real political clout. Scattered as these people are, means in practice that little is or can be done to improve their quality of life. Lord knows, it needs improvement.

    Durgan.
  19. Fred Forest from London, Ontario, Canada writes: I don't know if most of the people in Paul Bytown's community are Metis. Most Canadians, however, including myself, are in fact not Metis. You can certainly think the term is bogus but but the rights of the Metis are entrenched in the Charter. That would suggest a bit more of a focussed definition than you might come up with over coffee at Timmy's. The LGs all over Canada should encourage more Canadians to read to understand the history of the country and where Aboriginal people fit in. I would venture that most Aboriginal children have a far greater grasp of Canadian history than those of us who came here from other parts of the modern world. Previously, there was a disadvantage, in many respects for those who self disclosed their Aboriginal heritage. Similarly, there were a lot of Europeans who came to Canada and dropped the vowels off the end of their last names to avoid discrimination, Canada's dirty little secret, which appears to be alive and well, even today. A character trait most pronounced in the undereducated.
  20. francis mercer from Canada writes: will some one describe/explain what a metis is and what constitutes an aboriginal?
  21. Ontario Man from Canada writes: Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: I don't have any Metis in me Paul.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Oh, is that right.

    We are all descendants of nomadic stone aged people, no matter what continent we were borne on. If you go back in time far enough, we are all descended from Africans.

    So why do we give special privileges based on race in Canada?

    Sadly, because of my undesirable race, my children will not have many of these privileges. I guess it's my parent fault for not being of the correct race.
  22. Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes: Why is there such negativity toward natives? Canada and the churches systematically tried to 'beat' the native out of the native. Its easy to understand why some natives were 'hiding' their identity out of the shame that we planted.
  23. Hugo Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: This substantial increase in numbers will hopefully be a call to action on reforming how our governments deal with aboriginals. Continuing the handout policy with a rapidly increasing population will lead to economic disaster in the future. We need aboriginals to be full participants in (and contributors to) our country's economy.

    Ted and Susie: I didn't steal anything from anyone so while you are free to feel as guilty as you want, please leave me out of your sweeping generalization. And I'm pretty sure the cradle-to-grave social safety net aboriginals currently enjoy was not part of whatever negotiations took place over 100 years ago.
  24. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Paul, Bytown, from Canada writes: Aren't we all Metis? Some way or somehow. Most of us.

    Ummm no Paul...the term Metis refers to mixed ancestory of European and First Nations. The majority of Canadians do not have First Nations ancestors.
  25. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes: Why is there such negativity toward natives?

    Every paycheque look at the line labeled 'income tax'.

    Guess where billions of dollars that Canadians work for gets handed out to every year.

    That's why.
  26. Sydney R from Canada writes: James Young. Excellent idea about native Canadians needing to receive some democracy in their own tribal governments. Many native women especially are dispossessed and undervalued as persons. Despite ten billion plus annually sent to aboriginal purposes, not much trickles down to ordinary aboriginal families and individuals who endure poor housing,substandard education, poor health and legal services, lack of employment,etc despite all the money poured in . Justice needs to begin at home for these people.
  27. matt bodkin from Canada writes: well said hugo!
  28. brokeback mountain from toronto, Canada writes: it would be nice if they would start paying some tax
  29. Stewed Ham from toronto, Canada writes: The various levels of government have let the First Nation people take increasing control of their political and educational institutions. The First Nation University of Canada in Regina is a prime example. The results, particularly in education have been disasterous with the educational acheivements of First Nation people actually declining and participation at the university level actually decreasing in the case of FNUC. FNUC will likely be closed within two years because the First Nation people running it refuse to make needed changes. This does not bode well for the future of the Native people.
  30. Dave Roberts from Toronto, Canada writes: It's a pity in this day and age we give special status to certain people because of their ethnicity. They used to call that racism.
  31. PJ Casey Jardine from Canada writes: Indians that live on the reservations and the ones that do not join into Canada and don't work in and with country have nothing better to do but stay home and increase the population.
    The sooner a young girl can have a child the sooner the cheques start rolling in.
    And yes, within the economics of this country I am racist.
  32. Tania , from Canada writes: Randy, you're assuming that First Nations people do not pay taxes. With over 50% of the Aboriginal population living OFF RESERVE, they're taxpayers as tax benefits only apply if you live ON RESERVE. Educate yourself about tax laws much?

    Derek Holtom, while federal and provincial jobs do ask for your heritage, if you take a look at departments like Indian Affairs, where they're SUPPOSED to have 50% of their workforce be Aboriginal, the numbers are nowhere near that.

    People can 'claim' status but DIA decides who can get status. And without that little card you cannot get 'bogus tax breaks'.

    Hugo Hall, what safety net are you speaking of? What government handouts? Why is it when the provinces demand transfer dollars and equalization payments, is it not a handout because of resources and everything taken from their province but when First Nations communities receive the same, it's handouts?

    While you may not have stolen anything from anyone, this country has, and I hope you never befall the same fate.

    As for First Nations not being 'Canadians' until 1960 First Nations Peoples were not even allowed to vote. How could one feel a 'citizen' of a country when they don't even have the democratic right to vote?

    Same thing along the lines of 'if they're not Canadian stop the free flow of money' attitude. While some First Nations, rightly or wrongly, don't deem themselves to be 'Canadian' their land is here and so long as resources are being taken, rent should be paid.

    I wonder if people ever feel free to voice their ethnocentric views in public when discussing Aboriginal issues as they do on these forums. It must bring great satisfaction to have a venue to spout your tired rhetoric and simple-minded views. I'm glad my country provides you the outlet to relieve all your stresses of shouldering the sole responsibility of the burden that is Canada's First Peoples!
  33. D F from Canada writes: Historically most land was either won (war) or stolen (sucker deals) wasn't it? Might not have been right, but way back in history that was the way of the world wasn't it?
  34. Chris Edwards from Greater Sudbury, Canada writes: An interesting exercise in how survery results can be read and played with, and how a story can be written and reported based on how one chooses to read the result. Based on the three criteria given as reasons for the increase, only one, higher birth rate, would be valid if you were going to state that the numbers were 'soaring.' On both others, this is not a real increase in the number of aboriginal people, but rather an increase in people officially identifying themselves as aboriginal. These are two very different things.

    I might add that a much wider net has also been created with which to 'officially' recognize a person as aboriginal. In some cases, it can go back several generations and be so minute as the be meaningless.
  35. chris jenkins from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: As long as everybody but the Natives are supposed 'to take responsibility' for Native problems, their problems will never go away.
    And tell me this:if our Canada is to blame for their condition, why are the Native populations in every single solitary country in North and South America at the very bottom rung of their respective societies?
  36. 4th Generation Loyalist from Toronto, Canada writes: Wow. Good to see! For those of you on here whining about the tax breaks, etc. Please remember that in some parts of the country (ahem, Nfld) these people were driven to near extinction. Their land was 'stolen' (or fleeced from them) and their people poisoned with the vices and diseases of the white man. for the record I am white. Canadian's of all cultural backgrounds should look to these elder's of the bands and try to glean as much practical information from them as possible on things that affect the way we affect nature and the footprint we leave on the ground, so to speak. They are excellent at living off the land, what little we provide them to do so, and have every right to be here and prosper. Am I part native? Yes. But like others have pointed out it goes back 4 or 5 generations in my blood. Maliseet Indian to be exact. I think it's why I never get a sunburn, just a nice golden brown tan. Hopefully this next generation of Natives will have and use the resources provided by, Yes the Cdn taxpayer, to their full advantage in a positive way. Keep the reserves free of alcohol and other abused substances and give the youth a chance to reclaim their traditional way of life and live sustainably off the land, as they want to do.
  37. Stewed Ham from toronto, Canada writes: Tania, I do understand that you must be a member and on a reserve in order to take advantage of the tax benefits. Can you explain why First Nation people are pressing so hard to make 'urban reserves' (usually casinos). My understanding is that they would not have to pay income tax if they earn it on a newly formed urban reserve.
  38. Mervin Hollingsworth from Saskatoon, Sk., Canada writes: The issues of aboriginal people are going to have to be dealt with seriously in the very near term or Canada will face a disaster of unprecedented proportions. At some point the aboriginal population will overwhelm some of the provinces like Sask. and Manitoba. Sooner or later a national government is going to have to take the bull by the horns and convince the aboriginal leadership that living on remote reserves is not in the best interest of their population. To expect the federal government and all taxpayers to provide services equivalent to what is available in our towns and cities is not realistic. We need to hold the aboriginal leadership nationally and locally accountable for the billions of dollars they receive annually from all taxpayers to ensure their is honesty, fairness and equity in the distribution of those funds.
  39. Art Critic from Canada writes: It's good to see that one measure of the welfare of First Peoples is increasing. After what they have experienced (and continue to experience from some of the negative commentary and in our so-called multicultural society) they all deserve some positive news.

    I hope they continue to grow and prosper and make a positive impression on their country and society.
  40. Gary Thomson from Surrey, BC, Canada writes: Tania(10:40): Great post!
  41. Lorraine M from Anytown, Canada writes: In my home town newspaper a few years ago, there was a letter written in the 'comments' section by an indian man who described his attempts to live just as we do and all the reasons why he could not make it. Included in his reasons were such things as mortgage and taxes and all the various costs that every one of us face on a daily basis. He found that he simply could not make it financially and was going back to the reservation because it was easier living there. His reasoning was that while we work ourselves to death, taxes and the costs including in just living day to day leave us with very little left over while he has pretty much the same amount by living on the reservation and not working. I'd say that is pretty sound reasoning. You are right, however, in as far as the young girls having more children in order to receive more in government handouts. I myself have seen twenty year olds with four children and thirty year olds with as many as six or seven, generally with the first pregnancy occurring at between 15 and 17. This, however, is not different from another area I lived in where a single mother of any race used children as her income. I know of one white girl who had five and after her last pregnancy, twins, she was given a brand new house to live in and help was sent to take care of the new babies and, of course, her income took a giant leap upwards. Right in Toronto, in an area we called 'the jungle' and probably with similar areas in most of other major centers, there are generations of people living on welfare with no intention of ever working. They simply know how to play the system and are content to do so and they are no worse off than we are. We have the work ethic and they do not.
  42. Toby Maloney from Canada writes: Some people must see the word aboriginal or Indian and come straight to the forum to say stupid things about taxes. Why even read an article about census data if you aren't interested and don't want to learn anything?

    The whole world isn't about you and your money, but if you think it is, there happens to be an entire section of the Globe and Mail where you can go to be comforted. So just go there, and read all about how to get more money and keep it away from others. Maybe then we can get through one day without having the comments on an aboriginal topic closed because of defamatory racism.
  43. Duffman from Beamerville from Canada writes: Tania , from Canada writes: Randy, you're assuming that First Nations people do not pay taxes. With over 50% of the Aboriginal population living OFF RESERVE, they're taxpayers as tax benefits only apply if you live ON RESERVE. Educate yourself about tax laws much?
    Natives, including anyone that has suddenly discovered their native roots, obtain a staus Indian card and don't have to pay PST whether or not they live on a reserve. They can go buy their cheap native brand cigarettes, native gasoline and so on. There is a huge problem on the reserves with illegal smuggling, and has ben mentioned in prior posts, when they find out land is valuable, they just claim it. Maybe you should EDUCATE yourself. The only time a native will pay PST is if a vendor does the delivering and it is not on a reserve. If the native takes the goods with them, NO TAX. That's the facts lady!!!!
  44. Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes: I read that the Department of Indian Affairs budget is 6 Billion per year.
    3 Billion goes to administration and 3 Billion goes as a beneift to natives.

    How can this department spend 3 Billion on administration? The annual budget of the UN is 2 Billion. What gives? With so much money involved and so many vested interests we'll never get a deal done.

    I suggest buying the natives off once and for all. Give the natives $500 Billion and pay it off over 30 years. Canada will save a lot of money this way. A lot of useless people will lose jobs though.
  45. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: Tania, excellent post, excellent points. Thank you.
  46. Terry Debassige from M'Chigeeng, Ontario, Canada, Canada writes: If people are unaware of historical facts then they have no right to comment on native issues. It is very complex and covered by deceit and lies on the part of the Settler Goverments. Our recognition is not founded on Race! The Treaty of Niagara of 1764 was entered into by the British Crown, not because we were simply Indian, but because we were were killing the settlers and soldiers. Most of the western confederacy were allied with the French. They told the British, 'You may have defeated the French but you have not defeated us.' Other Treaties because we were the owners of the land. We could have been all one race around the globe and you would still have had to enter into Treaties with us because of this fact. The peace and stability that came from the Niagara treaty provided the security needed for the development of Canadian society. We were to have lived side by side never interfering with each other as we were never Canadian citizens. We were to have been left to develop our own economies with our own natural resources. Today we would have been thoroughly integrated as a result of economic and social interaction. Instead someone got greedy. After we lost 15,000 warriors defending this rotten country in the War of 1812 and sufferring a further population decline from epidemics the Crown saw fit not to continue the obligations under our original agreements, which are still legally binding. Your government started to simply give itself the legal legislation to rob us of our lands and resources. Incidently that is why the notion of 'rule of law' is such a cruel joke for native pwoplw. You can just make up the legal justifications for the for the thefts as you need them. We should not be receiving program dollars from the taxpayers. Just as your institutions are derived in large part from the natural resources of this country so should ours. But the powers that be would rather keep this illicit charade going since they get all the revenues.
  47. Bart Farquart from Calgaria, Canada writes:
    Demographically, Canada is on it's way to becoming a nation of selfish, largely childless, old fogies and it is heartening to see people having large enough families to reverse this trend.

    One has to be really blind not to view the possibility of bringing native people to full participation in the economy and society as an enormous and positive opportunity for all.

    And no, I am not in favor of discrimination of any type based on ethnicity.
  48. E Nuke from Ottawa, Canada writes: Tony - I whole heartedly agree.

    Many of the racist comments I read about us here sound very similar to KKK and Neo Nazi propaganda in the United States and abroad. Regardless of the people, the skidheads are always up in arms about 'sucking the taxpayers dry', 'special considerations', and promoting ridiculous racial stereotypes.

    Perhaps some of the people doing the criticizing are ashamed of their latent racist comments - but methinks that you can take the bigot out of the trailer park, but then the bigot just gets access to the internet.
  49. b mac from Canada writes: If the government had DNA testing for Metis, there would be a lot more in the consensus numbers.
  50. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: J.R. from Halifax, while you are correct that Metis have their own language and tradtitions, the language itself is spoken by fewer than 100 people in and around St. Laurent and a handful of other Manitoba communities. The language is a mixture of French, English, Cree and Ojibwa. The designation of Metis in these surveys is usually broadened to include anyone with some aboriginal ancestry. Also, many of the original Metis of the Red River settlement in Manitoba were more Scottish and Irish than French. This was certainly the case with my own grandfather, who descended from that settlement.
  51. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Are people really asking what Metis are? Were you not educated in Canada? Are you really questioning whether or not the Metis are natives? Have you ever seen one? A Metis who qualifies for band is pretty OBVIOUSLY not just a white person with a bit of aboriginal in them. They are a culture, and they have a vast and important history.

    Furthermore, they were moved off their land, like the other aboriginals, by the humane and loving white man. Shipped off to places like northern Alberta where the land is not arable and they have no rights. To live in poverty. These 'half-breeds' as some so callously have called them may as well have been 'full blood' aboriginals for how they were treated by the ever-loving Whitey.

    If you do a little research and look into the paperwork, the original Metis who were 'invited' to be a part of Canada were forced to sign documents they clearly couldn't read, as they signed with an 'X'. I highly doubt that inclusionary, all-loving Whitey explained they'd be living in a swamp and never see a penny for what grew and prospered off the land originally belonging to them and their families.

    On top of it, the Metis have had the dubious privilege of not being accepted by either the white man or the full-bloods. Their history is full of pain and heartache and poverty and shame - minus Louis Riel. As one wise poster mentioned above, a lot of Metis who were white enough to pull it off denied their backgrounds to try and fit into this country.

    In the past few years the aboriginal voice has become stronger and more confident, and this is a big reason why you're seeing a lot of people come back and embrace their roots.

    Why the posters on this board seem overwhelmingly racist, starting with the first few posts, and have no respect for the history of this country or the struggle of their fellow Canadians, is beyond me.
  52. Erik D. from Ottawa, Canada writes: To Stewed Ham: 'Can you explain why First Nation people are pressing so hard to make 'urban reserves' (usually casinos).'

    Is this any different from corporations who go off shore or use other methods or try and avoid paying as much tax as possible? Seems they, as our corporations are just trying to get the best deal they can under the given rules or laws. Can't blame then, especialy given the way they were taken advantage of, using the rules of the time, when they met the white man (actually, the term 'pink man' is a more accurate description of the pigment isn't it).
  53. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes:
    How can this department spend 3 Billion on administration? The annual budget of the UN is 2 Billion. What gives?

    Because to this day the funding is not held accountible. The books are not open and corruption is a serious problem.
  54. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: Tania, the point is that 50% (or whatever) of the population ARE on reserves and get tax breaks left right and center. On top of tax breaks they get paid annuities because they exist. I don't know why you feel that they are entitled to so much stuff just because of their race. Millions and millions of immigrants are in Canada and many of them have found a place in Canadian society; at times they have been treated horribly (ie, Asians during WWII) but they let bygones by bygones and contribute like everyone else. It is a total joke how they are complaining that they need subsidized housing when they already get all this money thrown at them. Without Canada they would still be living in mud huts and tents. They may be able to fish in a river a bit further away or hunt more buffalo, but it is a tough argument that all the advances in modern science and technology have not had a more positive affect. Refer to obscure tribes of natives on islands and Africa; tell me that is a better lifestyle. Bottom line is that they don't get it. The rest have Canada understands that you don't have a herd of kids because it's expensive and it is hard to afford. Many would love to have more kids, but that is the economic reality of things. The fact that your ancestors was x does not make you above everyone else. I'm sure if you wanted to adopt a lifestyle similar to the ancestors you could probably have that many kids too (but sorry, no free housing with electricity, TVs, etc).
  55. Northern Pike from Kitchener, Canada writes: Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: I don't have any Metis in me Paul.

    Alright I found this extremely funny, anyone recall the line from 'mini-me' in the car after asking do you have a 'mini' inside of you (or something along those lines? Lol.

    The native peoples in this country do deserve compensation but the degree they are getting it is a bit much, isn't it? I mean they get land, they get government money, they are tax-free, the get things such as education paid for, first chance at jobs they get, and once companies such as oil or mineral exploration companies come in they get more money from that. In a modernizing world the native groups would have had to adjust thus joining common society. I agree they should get so much but I think it's gone way over board.
  56. Shamus M from Canada writes: For a'Fully-Moderated' conversation it's remarkable how much racism and ignorance gets published. Does the Globe and Mail not have any pride in the standards of their publication anymore?
  57. J. R. from Halifax, Canada writes: Alistair: A lot of native languages are dead or nearly dead, my point is just that the historical existence of a distinct language helps identify Metis as a seperate and distinct group. The point is that to claim to be a present day Metis you have to be able to trace yourself back to one of the historical Metis groups. That is certainly the way that the courts see it, and I would suspect that these surveys would use the same criteria. I know a lot of people who have some (more recent) aboriginal ancestry, and those who identify as aboriginal tend to identify as North American Indian.

    And to the raving masses: as Tania says above contrary to what appears to be popular belief, most aboriginal people do pay income tax. In fact the income tax exemption is even narrower than Tania said: in order to avoid tax the income must be made on the reserve (i.e. it is not enough to live on reserve, you must work on reserve).
  58. Jay Dela Cruz from Ottawa, Canada writes: I was going to write something nasty but decided it wasn't worth it.....

    but I will say this - when the Europeans came over from across the pond and took over most of Canada's population today wasn't here.
    So tell me again, as a canadian student putting myself through school why are my taxes funding some 'this is my land so take of me tax?'

    And no not all aboriginals that claim PST or any other exemption live on a reserve.....

    how do I know this? Cause I have one as a neighbour. And last time I checked my apartment building wasn't a reserve.

    Tania please EDUCATE YOURSELF....this gov't is a farce open your eyes.
  59. Pickman's Modem from Canada writes: Ted B from Toronto, Canada writes:
    How can this department spend 3 Billion on administration? The annual budget of the UN is 2 Billion. What gives?

    --------

    I also have to question that figure -- where are you getting it from? That does sound pretty high.

    The status of Natives in Canada is always a difficult one. I also think that the current reserve/settlement (for Metis in AB) has set them up to fail. I don't know how they could expected to be a finanical success when some reserves are have no infrastructure to support industry or business (like water, only summer road access, etc) and are in some geographically isolated areas to begin with.

    It is easy to find instances of Natives abusing the system, no question. I don't think that 'abusing the system', however you want to define it, is limited to First Nations people. I knew a lot of families scamming on the EI growing up -- and we lived in a pretty 'white' neighbourhood. Most of the posts here only offer anecdotal 'evidence', so here is something to level the playing field...
  60. Wade Tompkins from Edmonton, Canada writes: Tania , from Canada writes: Randy, you're assuming that First Nations people do not pay taxes. With over 50% of the Aboriginal population living OFF RESERVE, they're taxpayers as tax benefits only apply if you live ON RESERVE. Educate yourself about tax laws much? Derek Holtom, while federal and provincial jobs do ask for your heritage, if you take a look at departments like Indian Affairs, where they're SUPPOSED to have 50% of their workforce be Aboriginal, the numbers are nowhere near that. People can 'claim' status but DIA decides who can get status. And without that little card you cannot get 'bogus tax breaks'. Hugo Hall, what safety net are you speaking of? What government handouts? Why is it when the provinces demand transfer dollars and equalization payments, is it not a handout because of resources and everything taken from their province but when First Nations communities receive the same, it's handouts? While you may not have stolen anything from anyone, this country has, and I hope you never befall the same fate. As for First Nations not being 'Canadians' until 1960 First Nations Peoples were not even allowed to vote. How could one feel a 'citizen' of a country when they don't even have the democratic right to vote? Same thing along the lines of 'if they're not Canadian stop the free flow of money' attitude. While some First Nations, rightly or wrongly, don't deem themselves to be 'Canadian' their land is here and so long as resources are being taken, rent should be paid. I wonder if people ever feel free to voice their ethnocentric views in public when discussing Aboriginal issues as they do on these forums. It must bring great satisfaction to have a venue to spout your tired rhetoric and simple-minded views. I'm glad my country provides you the outlet to relieve all your stresses of shouldering the sole responsibility of the burden that is Canada's First Peoples!
  61. Chris O'Donnell from Toronto, Canada writes: They better not reproduce too quickly. There won't be enough non-Aboriginals in Canada to pay the bills.
  62. Craig Cooper from Toronto, writes: Time for somebody to start paying some taxes...
  63. Erik D. from Ottawa, Canada writes: To Shamus M: Well, they let your comment in :) But seriously, I think its a balance between free speech and proper decorum. As well, the racisit comments are being addressed as such by some posters. I believe it is actually useful to know that racism still exists in Canada, if only to shame us in the hope that some of us try to do something about it. Now ignorance, well we know that abounds as well on blogs, and we should be equaly ashamed of it as well. But the path from ignorance is to learn and be taught, not be told to shut up, perhaps some of that occurs here as well. I sincerely hope so.
  64. Ghengis Khan from Canada writes: Tanya - I like your comments. Here is my ongoing issue. Before the French & English came to North America, First Nations people were certainly not living in a peaceful utopia where all people lived in love and harmony. When aboriginal tribes took the land of other tribes, did they pay 'rent' to the tribe who's land they 'stole'? My ancestors were Celts. Their land was stolen by the English as well. Wales and Scotland have never again became truly independant and only through unfortunate violent uprising did England relent and most of Ireland was taken back. Should the Celts now ask for reparations and 'rent' for the land that was 'stolen' or should we just accept that the world is a different place, agree to live in peace with those who once opressed us? How long shall we hold a grudge? We still speak our own language aside from English. We have our own culture The best revenge is having people in London pay $200 a ticket for Riverdance. In order to truly move forward, we must leave the past in the past. It's not your land, or their land. It is land. All people, no matter where they come from, feel content when they contribute to the betterment of themselves, their own families and their community. We all need to point the fingers back at ourselves because ulitimately, that is the one who is responsible for our happiness.
  65. John Longshot from Canada writes: Lets call it as it is. The Globe and Mail is a racist media organization.......it segregates a group on the basis of race and reports on its population growth. This is no different than identifying caucasions as a group and reporting the same statistics.
  66. A Canuck from Ottawa, Canada writes: The way Canada is treating Indians tax and al excemptions, no wonder the numbers are soaring...I do not have a full beard, therefore, I must have some Indian blood in me, therefore, I am entiltled to a full refund of all GST, PST and income taxes paid in the last 20 years.Maybe I will declare myself native Indian on the next census!
  67. Lawrence L from Northern BC, Canada writes: Topic, congratulations to us that we have made the over 1 million mark! I still can't believe that a lot of people out there think that status First Nations don't pay tax. Off reserve, you have to unless the company is registered on a reserve. To become a status Indian is not as easy as a lot of people seem to think and if you don't belong to a band, well there are next to nothing for benefits except your pride that you are being recognized as a First Nations person. When I was in college sponsored by EI reachback, a non- native girl asked why we have to be referred to as First Nations peoples,metis, ect or looked at as being racist. I asked her what her ancestry was and she replied that she was Irish and after that I looked at her as an Irish Canadian. I don't see why people aren't proud of where their ancestry lies. It is up to an individual to be comfortable into how they want to be looked at I guess. I feel sorry for other minority groups once it starts happening that they are being discriminated against and the seed of racism is already being planted. Canada is a huge country that should be enjoyed by all and remember that a huge part of it had to do with treaties being signed so the past immigrant settlers could reside in peace.
  68. Cam Atkins from London, Canada writes: In Japan, the population is declining because many people are too busy with work to have children.

    In Canada, aboriginal numbers are up 45% in a decade.

    Coincidence?
  69. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: @Terry Debassige from M'Chigeeng, Ontario, Canada, Canada:

    Excellent post. Too bad most here don't get it.

    @RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada:

    Read Terry's post. Then read it AGAIN! It's NOT ABOUT RACE!
    Geeeze
  70. b mac from Canada writes: The History of Canada is not understood very well. It would be nice to see a list of books, both non fiction and fiction, that people could read to understand how the Provinces came to be and how they joined up to become Canada. Even finding a book on the Hudson Bay Company in Canada would be a good start and a interesting read.
  71. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: Shamus M from Canada writes: For a'Fully-Moderated' conversation it's remarkable how much racism and ignorance gets published. Does the Globe and Mail not have any pride in the standards of their publication anymore?

    ====================================

    Standards?! Have you been following these forums?
    Some are on the 'right' & some are on the 'left' and some call themselves 'centrist', but one thing they ALL seem to have in common is a staggering amount of ignorance and intolerance.
    These GM forums are like car wrecks.....horrible, but difficult to look away.
  72. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: b mac from Canada writes: The History of Canada is not understood very well. It would be nice to see a list of books, both non fiction and fiction, that people could read to understand how the Provinces came to be and how they joined up to become Canada. Even finding a book on the Hudson Bay Company in Canada would be a good start and a interesting read.

    =================================

    They gotta thing called a 'library'. You outta try THAT sometime.
    (hint, you have to turn off your computer and actually GO there)
  73. Nancy Wilson from N.Ontario, Canada writes: Have any Aboriginal leaders really conveyed just what it is,that they want from people of Canada and our Govt.,and what would be realistically required to help their people lead fulfilling and productive lives? I would bet that most Canadians would want Aboriginal people to succeed in life. Endless Govt. intervention and funds have not seemed to have worked. We still have over 50% of Aboriginal people not even finishing high school. And most us know,that education is the key for future success. I think in part,it is not racism that plays a role in opinions,but rather tax payer frustration. Funds are provided for all types of opportunity and education,but yet a lg. segment of aboriginal people do not advance their educational opportunities. And poverty stricken families continue to have children,while often not having the means to provide for them,in a self sufficient manner. The same could also be said for other groups of people,as often it is the least financially able people,that seem to have the most kids. I think in part,our Govt. has contributed in making Aboriginal people dependent on Govt. intervention in their lives. Any advancement for their people,it seems must come from their own leadership. No amount of Govt. funding or intervention has ever seemed to have led to any significant change in the plight of the Aboriginal peoples. I don't have the answers,but the status quo has not been working. And that is part of the frustration of the tax payers that truly want to see positive changes for these people.
  74. Michael Leblanc from Toronto, Canada writes: Concerning 'stolen land' - ALL land is stolen by this logic. Over the course of human history, thousands of wars have been fought and countless lands and peoples conquered. I'm not at all unsympathetic to the plight of native people in Canada, but spare me the 'stolen land' moniker. It's all well and good to gaze through a 21st century lense hundreds of years back to a totally different time/reality. Lets be clear - the land was not 'stolen', it was conquered. The stronger side prevailed as happens in any war. So many great powers from Ghengis Khan, Attila the Hun, Alexander the Great, William the Conquerer, the Manchus, the Romans, etc etc have conquered whole groups of people and huge tracts of land. In today's world this may seem barbaric - but those groups were not living in today's world. Should the French compensate those claiming direct lineage to pre-1066 England for William the Conquerer's Norman invasion of Britain and subsequent decimation of the existing language and culture? No. Short of a time machine, I fail to see any realistic plan for native peoples in Canada, short of self-government. But self government must also mean no more free money. I have to laugh cynically when I see the Inuit crying foul at the American decision to place the polar bear on the threatened species list, thus denying them the business of guiding intrepid American hunters to trophy hunt those beasts - beasts who are supposedly held as sacred - about as sacred as the snowmobile and the casino it would seem.
  75. Tania , from Canada writes: RD Lone, I too live in Vancouver. Perhaps we can meet for coffee and I can educate you on the why's.

    Immigrants can come to Canada for a better life because apparently our human rights laws are one of the best. The irony is we still have The Indian Act.

    The irony is Canada has taken land without compensation and then wants to negotiate what they must give back.

    The irony is, RD Lone, much of the Lower Mainland in Vancouver belonged to Coast Salish Peoples who had it taken away and developed into the urban sprawl it is.

    In BC, 60% of the First Nations Population live off-reserve.

    Can you elaborate what you believe constitutes a tax break from left, right and centre (the correct spelling, by the way)?

    Perhaps you should contact some First Nations reserves and ask about this 'subsidized housing' you speak about. My understanding is it's a guaranteed loan that MUST be paid back or the band goes into default and the Department of Indian Affairs then starts garnishing some of the monthly infrastructure cheques. Can you imagine the outcry in Vancouver if the businesses on Howe Street stopped seeing a subsidy and had their assets taken by the government? Oh the horror!

    But it's socially acceptable to decry the amount of money spent on First Nations in this country. In fact the government encourages it and doesn't like to educate Canadians on it so the problems can continue while they (the governments) play the victims.

    While we're complaining about government handouts, what about the lumber bailout, the wheat bailout, the fishing bailout, the corporate tax cuts, the monthly child tax benefits, employment insurance, etc., etc.! Oh right. Those are non-Aboriginal so of course they're the far more deserving than those First Nations who apparently sit on reserve waiting for a cheque to come! (sarcasm in case it's missed)
  76. Linda P from rocky mountain foothills, Canada writes: Racist attitudes still exist in my face, on a daily basis.
    In the cities I've lived, across this country, I heard from bigots that I should go back to my people; on the reserve it's the same thing; I look too white so I must be one of the other people.
    Racial bias and bigotry is rampant in this country.
    People should respect each other.
    Period.
    All these hand outs people talk about do not exist.
    No one gets everything for free.
  77. Jay Dela Cruz from Ottawa, Canada writes: well said Nancy
  78. Garnet landon from Ktown, Canada writes: I thought the comments were to be based on the Government funded census, not about Rednecks ranting and whing over taxes. After all these years, it is still hard to believe the attitudes that prevail in these comments.

    I thought we we moved on to this new century, I guess I was wrong.

    I have cool idea, if the Rednecks don't like 'Indians', let all ask Ottawa and other governments to ship them back where they came from. I am sure there are no Indians where they originated from.
  79. Sylvia Brass from Winnipeg, Canada writes: I am wondering as to how the Census folks counted aboriginals living on reserves and how they counted aboriginals registered as members of those reserves but living and working in urban centres. Does anyone know?
    Also, in Manitoba we have First Nations and Metis politicians elected into civic office, provincial ministers and Federal MP's. Since they were elected to these positions, they have a greater ability to influence policy for their constituents than these 'chiefs of chiefs' organizations and assemblies whose primary mandate is 'dialogue' rather than action. The approx. $50 million annually that just one of these organizations receives from the federal gov't would go a long way to providing scholarships to aboriginal students who desire to get an education and reverse the cycle of poverty.
  80. Jedburgh Abbey from Canada writes: There may be some increase in self-identification as 'Indian,' but the vast majority of this population increase is just that. On many reserves (esp. the difficult ones) half the population is under 15.

    This means that the government, the AFN, and everybody else need to act NOW to seriously take action on First Nations issues. Otherwise, a number of things will happen:

    a) Government expenditure on social programs for natives will get incredibly expensive, esp. as the problems worsen;

    b) Many reserves will dissolve into complete anarchy;

    c) In the West and in Ontario, refugees from the reserves will become a large underclass in the cities similar to the black underclass in the US, with the gazillion social problems that will cause. Native issues won't be remote and isolated from mainstream society in that case: they'll be all over the urban landscape. Of course there are ghettoes in some cities already (Saskatoon, Regina) but it will get a lot worse.

    d) Native identity will take another severe body blow.

    So let's act NOW. I think we could start by settling all land claims, preferably not in cash until First Nations government structures have been reformed in some sense.

    Couldn't agree more with the poster above who gave a brief history lesson about how the country was settled without a slog of genocidal wars, thanks to the Treaties. The Six Nations really did save our bacon in 1812, esp. at Detroit. It would be good to remember events like that as we struggle to find a place for First Nations inside the Canadian identity and to escape the wretched us vs. them mentality, sadly characteristic of both sides. Let us go forward together!
  81. John Fedup from Canada writes: Ted B...we stole the natives land. Historically speaking, we conquered or conned them out of there land but if we go back through history all land has been conquered by someone at some point. The difference today is we are expected to feel bad about it.
  82. Garnet landon from Ktown, Canada writes: I was going to say something on your race but I will not
  83. Terry Debassige from M'Chigeeng, Ontario, Canada, Canada writes: 'Michael Leblanc from Toronto, Canada writes: Concerning 'stolen land' - ALL land is stolen by this logic. Over the course of human history, thousands of wars have been fought and countless lands and peoples conquered.'

    This justifies the loss of our land, by the way we were not conquered.
    I keep hearing that this country was founded on Christian Principles......like thou shalt not steal.........or thou shalt not covet your neighbours house....or anything that belongs to your neighbour?
    I guess that was just a treaty from the past between the colonizers and God and not applicable to today.
  84. i. ignatius from Mount Pleasant, Canada writes: being born at K-W Hospital, well within the 6 miles on either side of the Grand River limit that Six Nations claims is their god given right to own ... would that not make me a 'native' Six Nations resident by birth? there are thousands upon thousands of people in a similar situation along the Grand River ... are we not automatically all part of this community called Six Nations? if so what rights can we now claim? if not, then why make a distinction ... if we're not born a member of Six Nations due to geographic proximity, then this concept of 'Six Nations land' doesn't really exist, does it?

    but i do agree with an earlier poster about simply paying out 500 billion over X years and be done with this status indian and reserve concept. as many others have pointed out, all land at one point was someone else's, either lost or gained via wars, swindles, arbitrary political borders being drawn and redrawn ...

    get over it!

    let's live for the future, not dwell on the past mistakes of our ancestors from hundreds of years ago.
  85. Vasili Yeremenko from Canada writes: At what number will there be enough first nations people for sensible solution to their problems be forced.

    Fisrt nations need to enter Cnada as equal citezens, with a place at the table. I disagree with special rights based on ethnic background, but these 'rights' are a red herring that the rest of Canada focus on instead of the appalling underclass that exist in our nation. Taxfree statsus for poor people is meaningless.
  86. C J from Bangkok, Thailand writes: I am a Canadian living abroad do I count? Born and raised in Montreal, Quebec. Very interesting to read what happens back home.
  87. W G from BC, Canada writes: Excellent post Tania, if only more people understood the real issues surrounding the challenges of First Nations people. There seems to be a theme here about 'taxes' and Aboriginal participation in the economy and public institutions. With at least 60% of Aboriginal people living in urban areas, at least 60% are paying taxes,(probably more). People wonder why the highschool dropout rate is so high for Aboriginal people...well if your parents were taken away at a young age, beaten, sexually abused, and taught to be ashamed of yourself, how are your parenting skills going to be? Those that even know about residential schools talk about them like it was 100yrs ago when in reality the last one closed in 1996. So NO, there is no 'let bygones be bygones' and people cant forget about the past when it is in their face every day when they go home.
  88. Ross H from Muskoka, Canada writes: Great News People,
    With this influx of people fighting for aboriginal status - people who grew up 'white,' but now want to enjoy aboriginal benefits - are going to start to normalize statistics on the aboriginal population. No longer will we see dropout rates of 50%, or high drug abuse problems (or whatever). In a couple of years these problems will have been masked, and our need to provide a 'solution' will be removed. Call it REVERSE ASSIMILATION.
  89. Rob Coleman from Canada writes: A lot of talk about Racism. Here's a fact. My last name is 'Coleman' the name comes derivitave of Colman, the English name for a man who digs Coal or Charcoal. The E in the name is an affectation representing 'Erin' or 'Irish'. I am descendant from the many who worked for the few. Serfs who worked the land for lord and master and only received rationed amounts of that which they gathered. In short: Slaves. My Mother's Paternal side is First Nation. I am a pasty-faced, english speaking, caucasian Male. Neither I, nor my ancestors took anything from anyone unjustly. Those people who did in the past where in the minority then as they are today. The point being: The issue is not one of race, it is one of wealth. As always, only a few are controlling the wealth. Those few, as always, will only pay lip-service to those in need. The taxes we pay as the working class aren't routed to people based on their race or background or ethnicity. It's based purely on the lip-service the few in charge pay to groups of individuals they have taken advantage of over the years; as they continue to take advantage of them. The aboriginal people KNOW their culture has been (for lack of a better word) raped and express the need for equal standing and respect as a culture and as individuals; That is what sets them apart, what they know. The complacency and ignorance of average joe tax payer astounds me. Why would one focus his attention on the supposed beneficiary of the tax as opposed to the one who sets and administers the taxes, then divies it up? This conversation is not actualy bipartisan as we think. We're all in the same boat... it's sinking and only the wealthy get to buy a spot on the life-raft. When the raft leaves, you'll find yourself holding hands with all sorts of ethnicities as the water overtakes you.
  90. Terry Debassige from M'Chigeeng, Ontario, Canada, Canada writes: Nancy Wilson from N.Ontario, Canada writes: Have any Aboriginal leaders really conveyed just what it is,that they want from people of Canada and our Govt.,and what would be realistically required to help their people lead fulfilling and productive lives? Have you heard of the RCAP Report? this and many other commissions and investigations, costing millions of dollars, have done just what you are asking. But because they mostly recommend allowing our people to derive an economy bsed on our fair share of the resources they are ignored by the very governments that commission them. They native people have been beseeching successive governments for what they want and need but instead of understanding and accomodation we get further colonial entrenchment like the Governance Act and all. Instead of looking at the root causes of the poverty and dysfunction the answer is to disenfranchise the native people from the last vestiges of their rightful legacies. In a nut shell they want native people to become regular Canadian citizens, sink or swim, despite the fact we know most are unprepared for it at the moment so further poverty is virtually ensured. When have you seen other impoverished groups emerge enmass from their situations. Look at any east side of any city in the country and say with confidence that they too can rise above their circumstances. To compound things, the B N A Act or confederation created a nifty catch twenty two for Indian people. While the Federal Crown acknowledges, with much reluctance, a duty to uphold our agreements, the Provinces were given title to all lands and resources. It is painfully frustrating to have to make headway with one level of government then be ignored by the other. Oh and by the way, this neat bit of smoke and mirrors is extended to municipal governments making resolution impossible. Again it is a construct made for and by the Colonial governments for their benefit.
  91. SN Dream from Canada writes: Metis basically mean people with mixed race in French.

    But in the article, it is referring to native of mixed race.

    If you use it on a board context, every human on this world is a metis. As migration and interracial marriage are continuously happening around the world. It's will be impossible just to define what's a pure blood not to mention to actually find a group of pure blood human.

    I believe that equality and freedom is Canada's greatest value. By providing them with such enormous financial advantage over other Canadian, the government are actually putting the natives and the rest of Canadians in a mutually hurting experience. Taxpayer are forced to pay for enormous amount of money to Native that generate little to no gains to the economic while vital program like health care, education and R&D are being push aside. On the other hand, with the Windfall of free money are being caught in what's commonly refer to the lottery curse. With so much wealth suddenly landed at their hand, they are no longer require to work, coupled with the fact that they never have the experience on managing such a large sum of money. A lot of them will find themselves used up all their windfall within a decades and end up worst than they used be.

    The most important facts of all is that Native birth rate are twice that of the rest of Canadian. How long do you think we can afford to give them free money.
  92. Tyler Phillips from Seattle, writes: Tania , from Canada writes: While we're complaining about government handouts, what about the lumber bailout, the wheat bailout, the fishing bailout, the corporate tax cuts, the monthly child tax benefits, employment insurance, etc., etc.! Oh right. Those are non-Aboriginal so of course they're the far more deserving than those First Nations who apparently sit on reserve waiting for a cheque to come!
    ***
    All of those industries employ people and contribute to the national economy, not to mention provide food in the case of fish or agriculture. Corporations provide employment. Child tax benefits only benefit those who pay income tax - and you only pay income tax if you make an INCOME. Employment insurance is only availalble to those who have WORKED.

    I don't have a problem with any disadvantaged person receiveing help. The problem I have is that successful natives aren't requried to pay the same tax that other Canadians are, simply because of their race. THAT is racist. My generation had nothing to do with events in the past, just like current generations of natives had nothing to do with it. How long will we be treated differently by the government?
  93. Michael Leblanc from Toronto, Canada writes: Gail Cooper - I assure you I've cracked many history books. You're idealizing history. Firstly, it is indeed true that some native tribes sided with the British against the Americans, but others sided with the French, still others with the Americans. Why do you think this was done? Self-preservation and fear. Trying to pick the winning side.
    And I'm not just talking Canada here - there is no big wall along the 49th parallel and colonization is colonization. The Americans had a stated policy of exterminating native populations and they did just that - do you think the trail of tears natives felt conquered? Or the Blackfoot, or the Cree, of the Cheyenne? Do you think native people in Canada who were forced to send their kids to residential schools felt conquered? Do you think they felt conquered when they could not vote until relatively recently?
    If you think natives were lock in step believers in Canada or any of the colonial powers and not usually co-operating out of self-preservation... you should take your own advice and crack a few books yourself my friend.
  94. C J from Buri Ram, Issan, Thailand writes: I find it very interesting that the mohawks don't identify themselves as Canadian but the perks are nice. Universal healthcare!