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Beware the runaway husband

REBECCA DUBE

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:22 PM EDT 24/01/08

The Sudden Wife Abandonment Project looks at marriages in which the husband just ups and leaves ...Read the full article

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  1. The Prytanis from Ottawa, Canada writes: I think what amazes me most about this article is what appears to be the author's willful ignorance.

    The article mentions that men suffer from this too. I certainly have a few female acquaintances who made sure that their future was secured with a new mate before leaving the old one. The author even admits that she should have been more astute and seen the patterns of behaviour.

    And yet, here she is, making it into a gender issue.

    At least she had the honesty to admit that it was part of her coping process. That's an admission of bias if I've ever heard one.

    Whatever sells books, I guess...
  2. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Willful ignorance indeed, like not knowing the pattern of he also having left his 1st two marriages abruptly, which I doubt. This writer seems to be in denial and to be looking for scapegoats.
  3. claude larochelle from kirkland, Canada writes: I certainly sympathise with the plight of these women. But ...
    I have lived the reverse situation. After 25 years of marriage, 2 children, with a wife I loved just as much or more than the first day , she dumped me. I found out she had married for better and better, for health and for health, for success and for success ... Any serious research, as I have done, will reveal that when a couple dissolves (50% of the cases), 80% of the times, it is the woman who initiates the split. One sex is much less perfect than the other OR less tolerant of imperfection than the other.
  4. Stephen McPherson from Bradford, Canada writes: I'm more inclined to think this happens to men and women in equal proportion, although men might be less forthcoming about it. I for one was a victim of this syndrome, if you can call it that.
  5. Eye Sore from Dog Pound, Alberta, Canada writes: When Charles Bovary discovered love letters written to Emma. his wife, from her lovers, Flaubert, the author of the novel Madame Bovary, said
    'He felt 20 years of happiness slipping away.' Charles had never suspected Emma of infidelity, apparently, so artfully had she covered her tracks - until her suicide...
  6. NR Connor from TO, Canada writes: It is curious why Ms. Stark seems to focus only on departing male spouses while being admittedly aware that female spouses are fully capable of the same behaviour.
  7. Rolloff deBunk from Calgary - centre of American wannabes, Canada writes: I'd say the writing, however small, is usually on the wall before the sudden departure. Too much shopping and not enough camping is an excellent sign of an unbalanced realtionship. Domesticity in large doses to most males, is a sure way to start new rails leading in a different direction. Conversely too many sporting events and camping may lead the female off in new directions. We often feel that things are best left unsaid to avoid hurting the other party and that's what eventually leads to a seemingly radical turn.
  8. The Bubble from Canada writes: Not once does she ever mention that maybe she bears part of the blame. North American women need to take a good hard look at themselves, you've come a long way baby, perhaps you've gone too far. I love being a bachelor these days even a year after my divorce, I heard Lenny Kravitz has been celibate now for three years, too many women pracket richcraft, rock and roll.
  9. Fredrick Kimmel from TO, Canada writes: Rather than make this a gender issue I think if anything it sounds like an ostrich burying its head in the sand.

    Ignoring a problem doesn't make it go away rather it makes it fester until it can no longer be contained and implodes - any therapist worth their couch could tell you that :)
  10. Sue W from Canada writes: How could a family therapist, with a husband who's been married twice already, be so suddenly surprised?
  11. Hydrogen Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: This is a form of marriage breakdown that does not warrant special attention based on either gender or suddeness of the breakdown.
  12. Fredrick Kimmel from TO, Canada writes: sounds like the therapist needs a therapist
  13. Steve C from Canada writes: Typical female chauvinism. Attribute stereotypical attributes to men (and women), then use it as a basis to research towards a predefined conclusion. Imagine if a male researcher said women speak more than men and use it as the basis for research into women manipulating men. The outrage that would ensue would be incredible
  14. S Li from Canada writes: Talk about self-denial. I guess it is part of human nature to gloss over the fact that they had seen the warning signs but fail to associate them with infidelity or other inappropriate behaviors. My ex started to behave abusively soon after our child was born. At first I thought it was the stress from work (which was real). People would actually sympathize him, for he always put up a nice facade in front of family and friends (knowing he earned $10K per anum helps too). It was only when nobody's around, his real ugly self emerges. At first after a sudden outburst of temper tantrum (for really trivial stuff like seeing a damp baby towel left on the coffee table upon returning from work) he would behave really nice and even apologized. But the abuse continued, and there were several instances when the police had to be called to stop him from smashing dishes in the kitchen, or preventing me and my kid from leaving our home. I did extensive research based on my observation of his behavior, and came to the conclusion that my ex was(and still is) a Narcissist, who also exhibited Biopolar and Obsessive behaviors (based on DSM IV-TR). From then on, I started to distance myself from him to preserve my sanity. A chanced conversation with a relative of his confirmed my observation. Turned out he had problems with temper tantrums and passive aggressiveness back when he was a kid country. Yes, I did experience some self-denial initially when he treated me rather nicely after a temper tantrum. But I chose to believe in myself first and dealt with him as a matter of fact. It works.
  15. Anne Johnston from Red Deer AB, Canada writes: I would advise anyone who has taken a new partner, with history behind them, to remember the saying, ' a leopard does not change his spots'. Neither do these partners change their ways.
  16. raine turner from Canada writes: easy there boys- she is not saying this has not happened to men. She simply is saying her book will be about women for women- if you want a book about men- and this situation here is a perfect time for you to go and research this from the male persepecitve and write a book! EASY!
    Mr. Bubble (funny llittle name- but apt )I agree with you on the bachelor thing and staying single-- (but that also seems to really upset men when they find out many of us 'oldies women' are not really intersted in having a full-time- live in relationship- so it is nice to hear from a guy that agrees that is the way to go!!
    Thanks so much for supporting my point of view and many other womens!
  17. Mary T from Toronto, Canada writes: This type of behaviour is exhibited by both men and women. IF it's more common of men, which I'm not sure it is, that's probably because men just aren't socialized to talk endlessly about their emotions and their relationships. And if they do engage in these 'feminine' behaviours, they're often ridiculed, by women as well as other men. If a woman is having problems in her relationship, she might talk about it, cry about it, start fights about it and suggest therapy to deal with it, and it will be a long, tedious process. If a man wants out, he's more likely to move out and then send you a text message to tell you so. It's certainly hurtful, but that's the way it is. And again, neither gender has a monopoly on assiness.
  18. Tyler Williams from seattle, United States writes: Interesting.

    Hmmm, on the one hand, I could write a touchy-feely relationship book about women done wrong, and it will sell a million copies because so many women enjoy buying such books - making me rich.

    But on the other hand, I could instead write a touchy-feely relationship book about men done wrong, and it will sell only about twelve copies because hardly any men buy such books.

    Hmm, I wonder which option I should pursue...

    Decisions, decisions, decisions....

    Help me out here, people?
  19. CD W from Canada writes: This is why when I am asked by young folks, (gender does not apply, what the signs are when you are in deep doodooand you dont know it, I tell them. My story, simple, husband, stayed home with kids, while still working.
    Wife very busy, especially when I worked nights. Anyways, small , yet very small suspicion on my side, so I planned for the day she was going to leave. It occurred 3 years later, and my planning had me with most of the cards on the divorce table. 10 years on, I am civil, I babysit her dog when she travels, but I always get the sense, that she regrets some of her choices, and it is not me, but the financial security. She tried to leave for a guy with the potential for huge bucks from a family business, but his brothers and sisters showed up looking for their piece of the pie. Anyways he booted my ex just a few days before common law vesting. It just goes to show, he was smarter than me in some ways, but I did have 2 kids and they were the most important thing.

    So it is true, divorce always has looking at the past and photos and you always try to see when it all started to be a lie. DONT GET MARRIED!
  20. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: Tyler Williams: you would have to adopt a female pen name though. It's ok to discriminate against men, but if it's the other way around it's sexist.
  21. James Cyr from Balmertown Ontario, Canada writes: The reasons these men give for leaving their wives suddenly are not reason but are in fact cheap rationalizations and feeble excuses. I guess the key factor in marriage is the ability to communicate to each other freely, and not allow negative feelings to build up. And of course, there are a certain percentage of women who fall into this 'leaving your spouse suddenly' syndrome as well.
  22. 78 dead and counting . . . from Canada writes: Ms Stark obviously has some serious awareness and personality problems if what she writes about the sudden departure is true. I suspect it is not and she is just giving her biased and possibly bitter perspective.

    It takes two to make a successful marriage and two to end it also. I think she needs to look inwards first.
  23. D Lefebvre from Canada writes: Tyler Williams; you beat me to it. Simply put - she knows who her audience is.
    Is there ever an issue that people actually wan to hear both sides of (politics, crime, drugs, etc)? Or that someone that caused your pain (or you believe did) experienced the same thing? Hardly a market for that.

    My uniformed opinion on this article is that the person leaving gives the out of the blue strange excuse b/c they really don't want to sit around and debate the issue but simply want to leave.
  24. albert rose from Canada writes: For all it's worth, I'm a man who was dumped with no warning, really. I loved her and enjoyed out time together. I went over and over the relationship afterwards to see whether there were warning signs, if there was anything I could have done differently. She did not identify problems that we could work on; it was just that, on balance, she did not want to be with me anymore. She ceased to love my whole package- of strengths and weaknesses.

    Certainly, there were problems that could have been handled differently, but in the end, it turned out she just didn't want to be with me, so no amount of relationship finesse would have changed things, I don't think.

    Maybe some people are prone to fall out of love, or they're restless. Perhaps it's some sort of personality disorder. Maybe, in some cases, a person's subjective feeling of being in love is insubstantial in the long run; ie there is a mistake that becomes apparent over time.

    Probably a complex mix of the above.
  25. Banofee Pie from Toronto, Canada writes: SO much cynicism and ridicule, coming from mostly men I see! Wow, clearly I did not read enough into this column. Silly me, I thought it was about a woman who was writing a book about husbands who run away, who also acknowledges that women do the same thing. Except that she's writing it for a female audience. Sounds like you guys should get together and write your own book! You could call it the Sudden Husband Indignation Thesis, or SHI...oh, wait, can't say that here. ;) Anyway, maybe she didn't read the signs, maybe she thought she was married to someone who loved her, whatever the case may be, isn't it always sad when someone gets his/her heart broken? I felt sorry for her, just as I would feel sorry for anyone, male or female, whose partner unexpectedly walks out after 20 years of marriage. It's pretty convenient to sit at your computers and criticize her....hindsight and all that. Different scenario when you're living it though. If this book helped her get through the stress/sadness of a broken marriage, then good for her. Some people never get over it, and maybe she won't either. Perhaps she needed to be a bit more balanced in her approach, but it's a book from one woman's perspective. It's not the gospel truth, and I don't think she's saying it is.
  26. Cameron Reid from Toronto, Canada writes: Women tend to make decisions communally. Men tend to make decisions individually. Thus when a man, says 'suddenly' 'It's over'- he's been thinking about it for a while and has reached a decision- what you have to say about it is and always has been irrelevant.

    As far as 'fleeing' to a new partner, I'd say men replace their wives with women chosen primarily for sexual gratification- post relationship all we really want is a good **.

    Women will generally 'flee' to someone who provides them financial and emotional security- thus the phenomeon of shacking up with old male friends (either hers or the hubbys)
  27. Paul Hume from oakville, Canada writes: Yet another female focused article in the G&M. Sigh. By reading the G&M's life column, I have come to the conclusions that I should just run out and hang myself. As I am apparently of the evil gender. I count about 3 articles on women as opposed to 1 concerning men a month. First the over the top leaf coverage, then female centered life columns. HEY! I'm a guy and I read too!
  28. None of Your business from Waterloo, United States writes: I suspect there are as many reasons for suddenly leaving as there are people who suddenly leave. I am a male who ended a live-in relationship suddenly, with no explicit warning. I did truly love her, and we had some great times, but we wanted different things from life. We fought over too much too often, and I didn't feel like I was listened to, and I was the one who always gave in. So I gave in a lot, and soothed her over our disagreements, until I just couldn't do it anymore, and it was over. I felt terrible about how it made her feel, and I felt devastated myself, but I had reached some kind of breaking point. I saw a therapist myself after the breakup and resolved never again to get into a relationship where I can't have blunt but kind discussions about differing points, where I feel like we can be equals discussing things rationally, where I don't feel like I'm being forced to give in because of emotional manipulation. And I don't feel like she was emotionally manipulating me on purpose, that's just how she operates, feeling everything very strongly and wanting to express it until she feels better. And maybe that would have been fine if I had been willing to fight for hours, but I just wanted to quietly get along. I didn't want emotional disagreements to be a constant fixture in our lives. Getting in touch with this through a therapist was very helpful, and now I'm in a wonderful relationship that's everything I could want. But I still feel bad sometimes about leaving so suddenly. If I had a do-over, I'd still leave, but I'd try to ease her into it. But people make mistakes, and don't always know how to cope.
  29. Harbinger from Out West from Prince George, Canada writes: Liz Taylor said she never slept with a man she didn't marry. And she married the same guy twice! And sure got a big ring out of it, too. Which leads me to believe that marriage is the main cause of divorce.
  30. alpha scorpii from Vancouver, Canada writes: Oh, believe me... she had her red flags. Speaking as a woman, when I left my boyfriend after a four year relationship, he was absolutely stunned. He was in total shock. He thought he made me happy.

    Like many of you have astutely observed, he had his head in the sand. He ignored the fact that we argued constantly over the same exact things over and over again. He ignored the fact that I was going somewhere in life while he was content to drift along complacently. He ignored my concerns about where our relationship was headed and how we'd make it work in the long run. Even though I loved him very much, all we grown-ups know that love is not always enough.

    So basically, he ignored me whenever I implored him to acknowledge a problem, and all he ever heard was, 'I love you.' He clung on to his naive beliefs to his own detriment. In effect, he refused to see that the relationship was deteriorating and thus 'refused' to put any work into saving it (much like his work ethic for the rest of life). Anyone else would have seen it coming when I dumped him... anyone but him.

    Clearly, both men and women are capable of playing either role, and clearly there isn't an obvious victim in this situation like the writer would have us believe.
  31. Neon Cab from Canada writes: Bang on, Tyler. As a family therapist I would have expected her to do research and maybe publish a scholarly piece worthy of her profession but she seems more intent on making the bestsellers list at the local bookstore. Catharsis could have been achieved via a 'fictional' piece instead of masquerading fiction as science.

    And, Banofee, that's why I'm still cynical after your well stated post. A family has many people -- in the conventional historic sense, and the sense this writer experienced, it has a man and a woman -- but this she seems to really only be looking out for the female portion of that relationship.

    Lastly, None of your business, you admit that you fought. You realise that you then played passive. But then you claim that it was a sudden split. It was not sudden; it was years in the making starting with your first fight and ending when you could no longer be quiet. This therapist, like many 'snubbed' girlfriends and wives, however, doesn't seem to grasp that there were likely causes that she shares blame for and that he was probably pretending so that he kept home life reasonably pleasant.

    The book and her theory are just willful ignorance and pure sexism but don't be surprised if they become part of pop culture. Watch for it on Oprah and wait for all men to then be held under this out-of-focus microscope.

  32. CD W from Canada writes: To 78, thanks for the suggestion, but I saved one guy a ton of heartbreak, and he now has a new relationship with a stable woman. My ex may have had her problems, but I never denied their existence. All I suggest is preparation, lots of it, and when the poo hits the fan, you will be surprised but not left wondering how you are going to get out of it with your children, home, or assets. The only counseling I needed was how to properly invest my money, which I did, and now I only have to watch how green my ex is upon my happy new life. It really is not so bad.
  33. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: the guy sounds like a skunk. Mind you, it takes two to tango; and some people do change, sometimes for the worse. Luckily for me, my wife does like camping--and I take her places she's never before been to as well. The worst part about this sort of thing is that often there are childen involved--and that's ugly.
  34. Bill Smith from The wilds of the GTA, Canada writes: On the cusp of 40, I and I am still single I can safely say, I am glad I am not in your shoes.

    I think a lot of people get married for the wrong reasons, make note the average marriage quoted in this article is at least 18 years long before coming off the rails. In my generational cohort, the starter marriage last maybe a few short years before you realize your partner is not for you on several levels then bail before kids come into the picture.
  35. C M from Calgary, Canada writes: I actually have fantasies about my husband leaving me......is that wrong? ; )
  36. Mia Zen from Canada writes: It sounds so familiar !
    He was a jet set. On a sunday, we had small arguments. I did not feel like binking in the sun and there was another tall male friends with long legs my ex could biked with. He got upset. Then the storm on the highway driving back home and speed. Then the car behind
    hit ours at a light arriving in town. We unpacked. Then he said : 'You can go. Now you can leave. I am bored with you.'
    This winter, a close friend of mine left her husband. Months later, we realized she had it all planned.
    Of course, I soon came to realize my 'kicked-out' divorce was all planned and anticipated. Of course, history is looked at from a very different perspective. Of course, my blindness was obvious.
    Is this just sheer naivety ? I thought it was trust.
  37. John Smith from Canada writes: 'Ms. Stark belatedly realized that she was part of a pattern; she was HER HUSBAND'S THIRD WIFE, and he had split from both exes suddenly.' Uh yeah, I am not a practising 'family therapist' but I think that might give me reason to pause before I marry someone. 'I thought we were different'. Rule number one is family therapy, no you are not different. The woman has no business providing family therapy (or writing a book on subject of husbands).
  38. talk to the hand from Canada writes: family therapy's credibility was already pretty damn low....
  39. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: My ex live-in girlfriend was a 2-time divorcee. It was always in the back of my mind that marriage could be a bad idea. I was right. One day she was gone like a rat out of an aquaduct, but at least my suspicions kept me from making a huge emotional and financial mistake. Rather than stew about it I buckled down, got my career happening, and lost a few pounds. Now there seems to be more ladies than ever that are just looking for nothing more than friendship and a little on the side every now and then. And complaining I am not. At this point in life she'd have to be something pretty amazing for me to even consider marriage.
  40. John Smith from Canada writes: So true Talk to the hand.

    I hear the Globe will soon be publishing article by an ex-football player who is writing a book about suffering a career ending knee injury. He wants people to know football is a rough game and wished he had realized earlier, but while he suspected it might be, he never thought he could get hurt. You can contribute your sad football story on his website at www.moreobviousthanthenoseonmyface.ca

    Shocking revelations and penetrating insights just keep on coming in the Life section.
  41. John Smith from Canada writes: Terry F, I have decided in view of the many failed relationships in my life I am qualified to enter the profession of relationship counselling.

    You write: 'At this point in life she'd have to be something pretty amazing for me to even consider marriage.'

    Advice #1: Pretty amazing should be a high criteria for marriage AT ANY POINT IN YOUR LIFE

    Advice #2: Most women are great people. A surprising number of men are great people. Be sure to choose your partner/mate/spouse from the group marked 'great'.

    No charge since I am just trying to build my practice. :-)
  42. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: John Smith - thanks for the freebie. I agree, most women are great people. That's why I like 'em.
  43. D Mores from GTA, Canada writes: I'm glad to see most of the posts sound more together than the person featured in the article.

    1) Yes, I thinks signs are always there. On her case, she's a writer who finished one book and starting another. Sounds to me like someone too preoccupied with her academic work to take notice of the relationship.

    2) If this comes out of nowhere, the yes, her ex-husband was a jerk. But if he was seeing someone, then there was something to initiate that.

    3) Interesting that women just bash men and say this sort of thing happens more to women. Give me a break. I say men are gentlemen and they keep a stiff upper lip by not complaining and venting.

    4) If the chances of this happening are so great, heck who wants to take a risk? I say cheat, sleep with other partners, get an friend with benefits, and date surreptitiously to keep the door open for that eventual disaster. And have a great prenuptial agreement. What's the point of love and marriage. Give in to your inner desires! No regrets.
  44. joseph Cheng from Toronto, Canada writes: What's the big deal giving this kind of marriage breakdown a modern acronym 'SWAP'? At least Ms Stark's ex gave her prior notice. Many men merely leave the house to 'buy a loaf of bread' or ' buy a bottle of milk' and then disappear for good. Marriages do break down sometimes. C'est la vie!
  45. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: Its amusing enough that this is about a therapist who didn't have a clue about her own marriage . However, what is even more amusing is that the article about those singles, who are perceptive enough to stay that way, is not open for comments. But then again, neither is the abortion article and both subjects are sure to bring out the heated comments. Men who stay single are, at the least, considered non-contributers and cheap by women, and that's the mild stuff. Is this an adult's forum?
  46. Best Posts from Canada writes:
    WE RULE and TAKE OVER Real Agenda Here (4:30 PM ):
    In recent very heated related G&M comments, hopelessly clueless, subdued, destroyed, decimated, enslaved Canadian males
    have been once again humiliated by typical mindest bihand this Anlgo NA Canadian Oppression, Tyranny and got direct, in the face, explanation from the 'Canadian girl/female' WHAT is this ALL ABOUT. And you, Ca males, are not 'getting it' - again and again. No wonder that it is by now very well known world wide about the 'quality of Canadian males', who allowed to be subdued and enslaved by 'Canadian version of Neo Matriarchy' ...:
    -------

    C. O. from Toronto (29/10, 11:50 AM):
    I think this study is revealing something that is also going on for Canadians generally - women are taking over!!

    ... Some like it ['professional success'] even more than motherhood ...

    This compares to poor plodding men ...

    So I say go girl - I hope Canada will become one of a very few states with equal participation in wealth generation.

    This is not a race issue so all you bleeding heart lefties can go save a whale or something ...'
    Posted 30/10/07 at 5:38 PM EDT
    ----

    In support of the above 'C O' claims, the following is regular in T.O. :

    - Toronto upper middle class social event: 'successful young, middle-age professionals' etc, MOSTLY women.

    - Male engages in conversation one such 'confident and successful' woman.

    - After only few lines from her, a male bluntly, 'in her face', challenges her:

    M: 'Are you feminist?'.

    She (shocked, caught of guard): 'How do you know?!??!'

    M (with playful :-) etc.): 'I am good in psychology ...'

    She (after a pause, to compose herself): 'Do you know that, at least in Toronto, women rule and control everything?'
  47. Pat Gesner from Canada writes: Maybe the problem is easy divorce, or because Western marriage ideals are about love. When 'love' is not there, what is the point of been married if you do not belong to a religion that says you cannot unmarry. Not that an arranged marriage - a business contract with the wife providing sexual services and running the household works for every couple either. There are divorces there too. (came across one news report recently that said divorces are about as common as marriages in Egypt- were muslim 'temporary ' marriages(they can be contracted to be hours long.) included in that satistic? surely that would skewer the stats!) With some,unhappy marriages have the wife forced to share the family income with another wife, as the husband has that option, no matter how excellent the wife’s sexual services and family management. That inequality is something that we can at least congratulate ourselves about not messing up with our 'love' centered marriages. Most societies that have arranged marriages, rarely allows the wife leave the marriage even if the husband cannot perform his role of providing for the family. Buddhist women usually have no great problem, Muslim and Hindu women though have huge problems. (Do Muslim women get honour killed because they are disobedient, therefore an example of flouting Mohammad’s rules for Muslim women? I've always wondered about that. You cannot tell me ALL Muslim men would not be vindictive if there are hints their wives do not regard them as next to Mohammad in respectful 'worship'. Against human nature.) Now that truly would be a difficult topic to research and write about- Are arranged marriages better? Are the wives truly content or are they trapped, into burying their heads in the sand in a form different from western married couples? Are there universal hard wired ways humans accept their partners? There! an injection of multiculturism and ridicule of the antics of human behavior to balance some nastiy name throwing!
  48. Best Posts from Canada writes:
    CD W ( 1:07 PM ) writes: '... DONT GET MARRIED! '
    ----

    Excellent (and your other posts re: counselling others)!

    Please spread and alarm of: 'DONT GET MARRIED! But if you do and then Divorce, do NOT go in front of all these 'Judges' : .... '

    Namely, yet another Ont. Gov. and RadGenderFem notorious Divorce Industry (Lawyers, LSUC, Judiciary etc.) blatant abuse of People's Right for Impartial and Independent Judiciary: Ont. (Lib) Attorney General Chris Bentley announced on Jan 18 the appointment of Carole Curtis as Judge to the Ontario Court of Justice, to preside at Toronto (Family Court), effective January 30, 2008??#@@!!!!

    Everybody in-the-know of RadGenderFem Divorce Industry know who Curtis as Lawyer ('Officer of the Court') and 'character' was and is, experienced and considered walking disaster, rabid radical feminist etc.

    See for yourself:
    1)
    'Hey guys, let death do you part', MARGARET WENTE, The Globe and Mail May 3, 2001:
    '...
    'I don't understand why husbands' lawyers are all this fussed about it,' says Carol Curtis, who mostly acts for wives [sic!!!! - Judge in British Impartial Adjudication !?!?!]. 'It's fantasy to think that you are not going to have a lifetime obligation [sic!!!! ] to someone who has taken herself out of the work force to wash the socks and raise the kids.'

    So the guy is on the hook for life, no matter what he thought the divorce deal was?

    'Why shouldn't he be?' she says. 'Didn't he think the marriage bond was for life?'
    ...'

    ... tbc in Part II
  49. 78 dead and counting . . . from Canada writes: Best Posts from Canada writes: long-winded cut and paste regurgitations.

    Give it a rest Best Posts and if you want to say something - make a point!
  50. Veritas Canada from Canada writes: Life is very hard for men. Life is even harder for women.
  51. dfdfdsfdg ddgdfgfg from Canada writes:
    78 dead and counting . . . (1:22 PM):

    '... CD W from Canada ... keep your advice to yourself. ...'

    --------

    CD W, ignore '78 dead and counting ...'. Continue EXACTLY what you are doing.

    You appear to get it who and what '78 dead and counting ...' and likes are about, and what is going on ...
  52. A D from Canada writes: Yoohoo... Ms Stark married a man who had been married twice before. The she goes on to mention that he had left those wives in the same manner that he left her. So, applying logic, if he suddenly left her for, and moved immediately in with, another woman whom he had been seeing on the side, then he must have left his previous wife for, and moved immediately in with, Ms Stark, whom he had also been seeing on the side. There is no new phenomena here; this is the standard serial cheater, which everyone knows about. There is the old logic that says if a man leaves his wife for his secretary and then marries her, what makes her think that he is not going to leave her for another woman just like he did his previous wife? What goes around, comes around, and Ms Stark only got back what she put out. No sympathy for her here. She would be better off studying why some people, usually women, can't resist going after men who are already married. I think that she would find (if she were honest with herself), that it has nothing to do with the married man (or woman). It has everything to do with some perverse sense of competition with the other members of her own gender: i.e. I am superior to this man's wife because I can make him divorce her for me.
  53. Veritas Canada from Canada writes: Veritas You Can Use All Spin but Game is Over from Canada writes: 3)
    'Population Pyramid' NEVER recovered after sending 10,000's and 10,000's of Ca. Boys/Mens to slaughter in WWI (especially Genocidal against Men!) and WWII ...

    We should have just been smart like the Swiss.
  54. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: A D from Canada writes: '.......She would be better off studying why some people, usually women, can't resist going after men who are already married.' Do men also go after men who are married? On the serious side, the reason is that they can't compete for the man meeting their standards (usually unreasonably high) before these guys get married. If one were to go by the popular media, one would think that the women going after the married guys are stunningly beautiful and the wife is a frump. From what I've observed, its the opposite. These guys marry the ice queen types and are able to snag them because they have very reasonable looks and money. Then, when the sex isn't anywhere near what they were getting before they tied the knot, (often because its used to manipulate them) they find it easy to go out and find women who will provide it. Of course, these women are thrilled to attract such a catch and delude themselves into believing that they only have to wait a short time for the marriage to fail. Yes, its true. The best ones are already taken.
  55. The Middle Finger ..I.. from Canada writes: ' Sudden abandonment doesn't happen only to women; men are victims too. Ms. Stark heard from one man who e-mailed her at 4 a.m. asking to participate in her study. But she believes it's more common for men to want a sudden divorce, if only because women are more inclined to talk issues over while men yearn for a clean break. '
    _______________________________________________________Typical women's lib minimizing comment.
  56. Susan Zwik from Germany writes: Well, I can give you another twist on the Runaway Husband -- we live abroad, and I came here to be with my husband (mistake #1). Now, he is clearly demonstrating all the signs that he is ready to move on, but since he will want to stay here and I won't (I have never really liked it here) he can only walk that fine line between acting like he wants me here and pushing me out the door. But ultimately it will be me who has to make the decision, leave and start again somewhere else. Far too easy for him, wouldn't you say?
  57. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Susan Zwik, you'll still have rights, invest an hour with a German lawyer to learn more. It's as easy for him as you let it be.
  58. The Bubble from Canada writes: As a guy, you would have to be nuts to get married anymore, there is nothing in it for a man. Canadian young women (the ones not on crack) are so wacked from reading Married Woman magazines, they have no concept of the day after the wedding and the rest of their lives. The marriage game these days looks the same as it did when Prissy the chicken was going after Foghorn Leghorn. Guys only get married for some steady sex, but Canadian women think this is an option after they get married. I meet few young guys who want to get married anymore, just the drunk ones who get their girlfriends pregant. Women can be as militant as they want but then that's all they are anymore. I just don't want to listen anymore. There were three women on Mike Enright last Sunday on the issue of woment changing their names, the youngest of them shouted down the oldest in a vain attempt to push her point that women should not take their husbands name, I felt sorry for her husband, this woman was relentless. I actually think women are losing power because the fanatical element of feminism is such a difficult thing to listen to anymore and so far the women who have put themselves into higher positions of power have not proven to be any better than any guy and sometimes worse. Equality will happen in due time but the constant push is making most people simply not care, it's irritating.
  59. C Stevens from Brampton, ON, Canada writes: You know, sometimes people get married because it's expected, stay together because it's 'right', Wake up one day with an ounce of self-respect and leave! It's not abandonment, it's reality!

    It's very amusing that the author uses teh term abandonment, it's acusatory and seems to put the departing party in a bad light. We'd need to consider that the 'wife' may have been hell to live with and had her head stuff too far up her own sewing basket to realize she was the cause.

    People change, but even more to the point, people don't communicate (communication is useless if you're sending and there's no receiver, BTW). Learnign how to effectively communicate with a partner should happen BEFORE marriage.
  60. ali mansur from Etobicoke, Canada writes: First off, men are never silent, they always give signs about the state of the marriage. But women are stubborn, use sex vindictively and tend to be dismissive of men (as this Ms. Start continues to be.) Well, unlike women, men don't live to argue, so at some point they will just leave without fanfare.

    My advice to the women out there is that if they think that they have their men under control, they are ignorant, incompetent or in denial. Resentment will build, and small signs will be given, but if you continue to win all of the arguments and dismiss your husband, the marriage will never last.

    Secondly, if you are a parent (mother or father) of a boy/man, you'd be negligent not to tell your child never to get married. Marriage in Canada is has no benefit to a man. Divorce and child-custody proceedings are inherently anti male. If you want kids, go have them Texas.
  61. J Y from Vancouver, Canada writes: It is important to note that not all of those women who were left behind their husbands were able to rebuild their lifes and become stronger. If this book can help those who carry-on living in bitterness and anger, that's called mission accomplished!

    Let the sales volume of this upcoming book speaks for this success.
  62. C Stevens from Brampton, ON, Canada writes: Dearest Ali (ali mansur), to suggest that marriage in principle is bad would be prejudiced and unfair to the child. To help them understand how to be honest with themselves and not feel that marriage is a responsibility, while giving them the opportunity and self-esteem to live their own life while observant and respectful of others will offer them the best tools to a sucessful and happy life, married or not.

    That said, your perception of the child-support and access rights for a man is shared by many and has merit. The 'system needs change, fight for it, but never abandon the children.
  63. D M from Canada writes: Susan Zwick... what are you waiting for? You have a husband who doesn't want you anymore (or it appears to you). Why are you with him? Why would anybody be with somebody, who doesn't want them in return (assuming there aren't reasons like kids, etc., and even then that's questionable). You don't like it there, even. So ... ? And you say it's 'easy' for him? Easy? He is with someone, but doesn't want to be, and from your words, he's only doing it because of you situation. Doesn't sound so easy to me. Sounds like it's pretty hard for him, staying with someone he doesn't want, robbing himself of being with someone he DOES want, because of that person. The 'easy' thing for him to do is kick you out in a foreign country with no support network. Trust me.

    As for me, a serious relationship ended (in same situation as Susan above, an ex-pat), but it wasn't the happening, it was the reasons. I thought I saw the reasons of the relationship deteriorating, but it wasn't until a few weeks later that I got the litany of complaints. When I was shocked that those things were why she started falling out of love, all she said was, 'Well, you -should've- known'. Maybe she tried to tell me and I didn't hear, but all I know is that I certainly heard then, and wished I heard earlier. In any case, it's all about communication. I think most think the other person 'hears', but they don't take the time to sit down and really make sure. Till it's too late...
  64. Paul G from Toronto, Canada writes: Based on my own personal experience and what I've witnessed in other scenarios, during a break-up most of the damage seems to be at the hands of the (emotionally) weaker partner...

    If you feel you're actually the victim of this sort of thing I think it's time to learn how to pick yourself up and start again like any failed venture in life. You have to find the strength because other people will not want to hear about this sort of problem, it's a personal matter.
    ...
  65. My eyes are open, Are yours? from Canada writes: Got a wife and kids in Baltimore Jack, I went out for a ride, and I never went back --

    --Bruce Springsteen
  66. RONNIE MILLER from ELDORADO, Canada writes: I hope the author widens the title to 'Sudden Spousal Abandonement' before its printed. I hope too men will have the courage to come forward and bare feelings truthfully and honestly, as may be uncharacteristic to many. After nearly 13 years I was a victim of this sudden out of the blue event, just as Ms. Stark. I too looked back at my anniversary card from her just 4 months before to see for any clues, but it was bubbling with love. My ex was a personality type I came to later label as 'NEEDY'. One who is not strong enough of self personality, full of insecurities, and cannot function without a partner. In my 10 years of being a single parent since our split I have encountered many other females of this 'type', and steer away in the opposite direction. I look upon this as a form of emotional retardation & underdevelopement. To be a fully functioning and emotionally available person you need to be a complete and stable person yourself, first. I was told this over and over by more experienced others, counsellors, and books. I have learned so much from my experiences of these last 10 years. To a point now I probably know too much! The sudden and unexpected miracle romantic meeting scenario has evaporated. My ex being the 'type' she was, would never have left me until she had made certain she had someone else to be with. Had the circumstances been in reverse and she had been suddenly dumped, she would have become hooked on either prescription drugs, alcohol, or suicidal. No way could she have functioned under such stress, alone, and with 3 kids aged 7-10, as I did. I calculated I had 'met for coffee' , to actually dating, approximately 1200 women in the 8 years after my split. Very educational, but scary stuff sometimes. There was one lady I met whose recounting of her split just amazed me. So planned! She had spent weeks cooking/stocking the freezer, and a whole array of other things for her soon-to-be ex before she broke the news to him.
  67. Edwin Green from NS, Canada writes: how about hen picked husbands man works all day comes home no dinner and the lttle wifie painting her toenails she sleeps in till 1 pm and so on been their don that
  68. RONNIE MILLER from ELDORADO, Canada writes: I hope the author widens the title to 'Sudden Spousal Abandonement' before its printed. I hope too men will have the courage to come forward and bare feelings truthfully and honestly, as may be uncharacteristic to many. After nearly 13 years I was a victim of this sudden out of the blue event, just as Ms. Stark. I too looked back at my anniversary card from her just 4 months before to see for any clues, but it was bubbling with love. My ex was a personality type I came to later label as 'NEEDY'. One who is not strong enough of self personality, full of insecurities, and cannot function without a partner. In my 10 years of being a single parent since our split I have encountered many other females of this 'type', and steer away in the opposite direction. I look upon this as a form of emotional retardation & underdevelopement. To be a fully functioning and emotionally available person you need to be a complete and stable person yourself, first. I was told this over and over by more experienced others, counsellors, and books. I have learned so much from my experiences of these last 10 years. To a point now I probably know too much! The sudden and unexpected miracle romantic meeting scenario has evaporated. My ex being the 'type' she was, would never have left me until she had made certain she had someone else to be with. Had the circumstances been in reverse and she had been suddenly dumped, she would have become hooked on either prescription drugs, alcohol, or suicidal. No way could she have functioned under such stress, alone, and with 3 kids aged 7-10, as I did. I calculated I had 'met for coffee' , to actually dating, approximately 1200 women in the 8 years after my split. Very educational, but scary stuff sometimes. There was one lady I met whose recounting of her split just amazed me. So planned! She had spent weeks cooking/stocking the freezer, and a whole array of other things for her soon-to-be ex before she broke the news to him.
  69. r s from Canada writes: Not to worry ladies the legal system will insure your x is treated like a criminal and he pays you a gold plated salary for years to come. While he suffers from long term depression and taking home less than half of his income he used to while doing the same amount of work. Oh yeah don't worry about the court costs as the male always pays anyway. Think of your loss as a gift................ Don't worry he will be puinshed soon enough.
  70. J P from Vancouver, Canada writes: I personally feel that this woman has found a way to make her situation golden, as in using the discomfort of other women into a million dollar book. This is something that happens to both men and women and the reasons are numerous and not as superficial and gender biased as she makes it seem.
    I am saddened that the norm seems to be to make a buck off the misfortune of others. Will she soon have a Springeresque freak show as well?
    Perhaps her lack of compassion was and is a factor in her life direction.
  71. The Bubble from Canada writes: The laws have given women the right to be smug about divorce and to think that a man gets depressed because he has lost her. Canadian women flatter themselves way too much these days and the law is an a$$. The Ontario Crown Attorney let my wife off with a fine after she attacked me with a knife and threatened to kill me three times in front of a cop. It's not my ex I stay mad about, it's the female Crown Attorney and lawyers who were going about business as usual while my ex went to town on my kids. No compassion from the state proves they are illegitimate.
    Most of the people on the street are white male
    Only men jump from overpasses with children in hand and kill their estranged spouses. When the law develops a heart maybe things will change.
    It's simply more practical for a man or a woman to quickly leave to avoid the fallout. The rest is blubbering.
  72. Me in Ontario from Canada writes: Been there, been done to: the thing that kept me in one piece was when I finally got tired of my ex's affairs was knowing that he apparently did the same to his first wife--I found out later after the divorce. He told me and lead his family and friends to believe that his ex was the one fooling around when in fact it was him.

    The thing that made me angry was my own stupidity for falling for a man who clearly had issues with commitment and fidelity. At the end I along with our kids were the ones who got burned.

    The hardest part is forgiving myself for being such a fool. I forgave my ex because I realize he needs help. I am not making excuses for him, I just learned not to punish myself for a failed marriage. It happened with his first wife, he is hopping from one woman to another even to this day. I'm glad I'm out of the loop.
  73. RONNIE MILLER from ELDORADO, Canada writes: I refused to pay a lawyer and line their pockets. I had no money, and 'we' had virtually nothing to split after 12 years anyway. I had once owned outright mortgage free a house, the year before my ex moved in with me. We made verbal agreements after the break-up and they were all broken by her. But I shouldn't have been surprised, she couldn't keep her marriage vows! The mistakes you make when you are young, in love, inexperienced, naive. I never saw a penny from her in child support for all the time I had my children, yet the minute one of my three was with her she demanded money. Always threatening to take me to family court, a place I just loathed. They discounted allways the importance of my counter claims for child support each time, but nailed me to the cross if I owed her one cent. My biggest lasting memory was waiting at the filing counter at the court to reply to one of her latest filings. I saw woman after woman there with huge thick expandyfile briefcases like a foot thick making filings. I listened in and not one was a lawyer or paralegal agent. They were all ex wives. I just couldn't understand what makes a person of whatever sex want to spend so much of their life/time/efforts spending it occupied with the person who they wanted to not be with in the first place. Such concentration on negativity? YUCK! What goes around in many cases comes around. After 10 years I have started to see this come slowly true. It hurt me what she and the courts did, but in the end couldn't break me. I had been honourable from the moment we first met to even this very day. I sit atop my Ivory white tower, and can sleep easily at night. The relationship I have with my kids is terrific. My ex however, now has a major alcohol problem and in denial of it, become much more overweight, is in a disfunctional relationship, and has great difficulties in relations with our children. Our maker sees/knows the real truth, even if the courts and others don't.
  74. E Willy from Toronto, Canada writes: The overreaction of many of these posters is astounding. I can understand that men are angry about perceived biases in the family law system. But WHAT about this article in particular is offensive, sexist or otherwise unpalatable to men??

    All this woman is doing is trying to make sense of her own experience, and talking to women who've been through the same thing, and putting it together in a book. For God's sake, NOTHING about that means that the author doesn't realize the same thing happens to men. It doesn't mean she hates men. She doesn't even say anything bad about men!!

    The only potentially negative thing comes from her own experience, and we're all allowed to talk about our own experience. The fact is that she was hurt in this particular situation. It doesn't mean women don't hurt men. I think that all you posters who are freaking out about this article and turning it into a forum for bashing feminism need to chill the f**k out.
  75. Me in Ontario from Canada writes: I'm with you EWilly from toronto, I don't hate men personally just because one was messed up and I foolishly got myself messed up with him.

    It boggles my mind why everyone gets their knickers/panties/bloomers up in a bunch so much so fast...
  76. Men Stand Up Fight Back Against Carole Curtis Appointment from Capital of Gov Judicial Legal Oppression Tyranny, Canada writes:
    Part II
    HELP Carol Curtis Appointment NOT to be EFFECTIVE on January 30!:
    ... see part I
    3) more info
    ... see part I (links)
    - false allegations against the father
    - false CAS to take custody of the child.
    - Set up was finally discovered and Curtis was exposed but DAMAGE was done to Child and father
    - LSUC white wash, cover up.
    - another false allegations of sexual abuse of child by father - however d mother was found to suffer from Borderline Personality Disorder. Psychiatrists and Hamilton CAS agreed that kid should not be returned to the mother !!!
    - other cases where Curtis had children returned to abusive mothers !!!

    Write (fax, email ) to:
    Hanny Hassan, Committee Chair - JUDICIAL APPOINTMENTS ADVISORY COMMITTEE, Toronto Phone: 416-326-4060 Fax: 416-212-7316
    hanny.hassan@Ontario.
    HannyHassan@sympatico.ca

    Honourable Chris Bentley, Attorney General, Toronto, Phone: 416-326-4000 Fax: 416-326-4016 ; cbentley.mpp@liberal.ola.org

    Hon. Dalton McGuinty, Premier, Toronto, Phone: 416-325-1941 Fax: 416-325-4989 ;
    DMcGuinty.mpp@liberal.ola.org
    DMcGuinty.mpp.co@liberal.ola.org

    The Honourable Rob Nicholson, M.P., Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Phone: (613) 995-1547 Fax: (613) 992-7910
    Nicholson.R@parl.gc.ca

    The Right Honourable Stephen Harper P.M, M.P., Office of the Prime Minister Phone: (613) 992-4211 Fax: (613) 941-6900
    Harper.S@parl.gc.ca

    The Honourable Warren Winkler, Chief Justice, Ontario Court of Appeals Chair, Board of Governors, Ontario Judicial Council Phone: 416-327-5803 Fax: 416-327-5032
    Warren.Winkler@ontario.ca

    The Rt. Hon. Beverley McLachlin, P.C., Chief Justice of Canada
    Chair, Board of Governors, NATIONAL JUDICIAL INSTITUTE
    Tel: 613-237-1118 Fax: 613-237-6155

    ... see next
  77. raine turner from Canada writes: I think it is hilarious how the female bashers behave- it makes me understand so clearly why they are single--- and that is what makes them angry. I think mrbubble (so funny -the name) is so upset no "Canadian woman' wants him- but he continues this behaviour???

    Duh?
    He just does not see how his own actions and behaviours are actually creating his own reality. But, like I have learned on other posts from different article he can always go and find a woman from another county that is not a "Canadian fem whatever' and be happy--- then if this is so upsetting to men why the heck are their so many posts here. I think a male book would sell- look how many of the posts here are from men- that I think could use some 'therapy' for the anger management/hate/ self absorbed issues
  78. The Bubble from Canada writes: I don't hate women, they're soft and warm. I've never hurt one, always treat them with respect, especially at work. What the more militant feminists don't get is that most women haven't evolved to the point of understanding unless they're husbands are beating them, there is no need to use the full extent of their immunity from the law to destroy the lives of good men, because they got jilted. this happens all the time, it is not a 'percieved opinion' of the law, it is the reality of the law.
    The law is an A$$ and I haven't the time to work to correct it, my kids are grown, the damage is done, let the young poor fools figure it out themselves.
    And don't worry about me, I'm just laughing from the sidelines now, score a piece now and then, no one gets hurt.
  79. K S from Velo City, Canada writes: Nice to see another story about divorce becoming a sounding board for the mysogonistic rantings of basement-dwellers. So you married a pretty gold digging vindictive *** thinking she'd take care of you, and she took you for all you had, boo hoo. Assuming that all women are like that is just as immature as assuming all men are pigs. Honestly, is there any relationship-type story these guys will NOT paint over in their beware-the-radical-greedy-feminists attitudes? The story has nothing to do with you, get over it. While you're at it, get over some of the other large issues you have with life and the other gender, and maybe you'll be happier. The idiots who assume that behind every deadbeat abusive violent man is a greedy woman sucking him dry with the help of the woman-controlled courts, are in serious need of professional help. Not from the therapist in the article, though. Her outlook on life is skewed too!
  80. Men Stand Up Fight Back Against Carole Curtis Appointment from Capital of Gov Judicial Legal Oppre