Skip navigation

 Login or Register | Member Centre

Shifting sands: Part I

An empire from a tub of goo

ERIN ANDERSSEN and SHAWN MCCARTHY AND ERIC REGULY

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:47 PM EDT 16/02/08

How did the quest to retrieve the hidden treasure go from fool's errand to huge payoff? ...Read the full article

This conversation is semi-moderated What is moderation? | How do I report a comment?

  1. J. D. from St. Catharines, ON, Canada writes: Monumentous?
  2. Dawn from Minnesota from United States writes: In time, the people of Alberta will learn that you can't live a healthy life when you live on poisoned land.
  3. globefan EH from Canada writes: As a Canadian, flying across the tar sands the first time was not something that gave me any pleasure, the scale of destruction of the natural world is astounding.

    The long term cost may yet be deadly, cancer clusters are turning up.
  4. Alyssa Watson from Canada writes: I dont think canadians grasp how much oil the country really has. What a great country. Check out these pics of Radarsat 2. Just hope the goverment doesnt go through the Deal to sell MDS, radarsat 2 and the canadarm to the American Defence Company. http://www.radarsat2.info/about/gallery/
  5. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: The Globe is censoring my comments - typical...
  6. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Dawn from Minnesota:-- A good number of Albertans already know that, but they somehow can't help themselves. Read Jeffrey Simpson's column.
  7. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Yes, there is defintely alot of oil in Canada -- the bigger question is are we destined to follow Norway's lead on how to manage these resources or that of some third world country? How does the average citizen benefit from their own country's resources?
  8. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: The oil belongs in the ground, that is where the creator put it. These corporations are not Socially Responsible and it will be those in Alberta that will pay the ultimate price. Money is not the end it to be all. Do not cry when there is no more water, your children are dying and mother nature is destroy forever.
  9. Shaun Adamson from Brantford, ON, Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Yes, there is defintely alot of oil in Canada -- the bigger question is are we destined to follow Norway's lead on how to manage these resources or that of some third world country? How does the average citizen benefit from their own country's resources?

    -----------

    Robert, the natural resources are controlled by the provinces, not all of Canada. Therefore, Alberta's resources are Alberta's. Same goes for Saskatchewan.
  10. chris jenkins from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: All you Easterners hate Alberta but love to claim that it's resources are your own. Not so! How lucky you are that the Albertans you deride have been so overly generous with you. So far.
  11. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Wow - the 'automated' censorship filters are working full time now. Twice now, they have killed commentary about the toxic ponds from Oilsands development, the wasteful consumption of a lifetime of natural gas in 10 years, and the downstream environmental impacts on the watershed (including fish and migratory birds). And that all this oil is for consumption in US SUVs and Hummers.

    Looks like the petro industry is paying for mild commentary on the Globe website. So much for free speech in Canada...
  12. Shaun Adamson from Brantford, ON, Canada writes: Dawn from Minnesota from United States writes: In time, the people of Alberta will learn that you can't live a healthy life when you live on poisoned land.

    ------------

    Then eventually the world will have to learn to find an alternative fuel source. Because otherwise, the world needs oil and Alberta has a resource that people want. This isn't just about Alberta, it is supply and demand.
  13. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: In 1789, Alexander Mackenzie described how the banks of the Athabasca seeped oil into the river.

    Maybe that is why their is cancer in Ft. Chipewan??....... In the warm sun the oil literally flows out of the banks into the river over several hundred km of banks..... I have stood there and watched it....
  14. J Law from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada

    The question is, Robert, will you people on the east coast learn from what Alberta is doing and the positives you see in Norway? Time will tell.
  15. MJ M from Fort McMurray, Canada writes: A relatively balanced story for a change. Clearly there are issues facing Oilsand development. It's a world class resource and there are world class companies working to develop it in a sustainable way. For people with skills, Fort McMurray is probably the best place in the world to live and work.

    I don't work for an Oil Company, I moved here 7 years ago with my family and we all like it here very much. It's been great for me and my wife professionally and personally and our kids love it here. They have gotten opportunities here at young ages that they wouldn't have gotten anywhere else, they attend good schools and have great friends.

    Like it or not, Oilsand development is the engine that will drive Canada for the next couple of decades.
  16. Mike Schulz from Houston, United States writes: Globefan flew across the sands and did not like it? Did she/he purchase a carbon offset?
    Alberta has a resource and they should develop it like all other municipalities such as Texas or Saudi. The economic benefits can be reaped by all. If they invest wisely, their families can enjoy those benefits.
    For all you naysayers, jealousy is not a virtue. Before you go off on a tangent, look at your life.
  17. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Not only did they get Glen Schmidt's name wrong they also got the project name Deer Creek wrong... looks like they did a lot of ground work to write this piece......
  18. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: Sam, did your comment appear and then disappear later or did they just not show up when you submitted them? If the latter, it could be because your comment contained characters which are regarded by the G&M brain-dead semi-moderator to refuse a posting. Examples include the long dash, the opening and closing double quotes and the curly apostrophe. I can't show you them here because my comment would be filtered out. Try using the dash (minus sign) -, the plain double quote ' and the plain apostrophe '.
    These could typically be embedded in text copied and pasted from another source, e.g., a web site.

    I've gotten into the habit of composing my comment in MS Notepad and then pasting it into the comment box. If it doesn't show up, I look for 'special' characters and try again.

    Good luck.
  19. Alyssa Watson from Canada writes: chris jenkins from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: All you Easterners hate Alberta but love to claim that it's resources are your own. Not so! How lucky you are that the Albertans you deride have been so overly generous with you. So far

    You would be suprised how many eastererners are working there. Its mainly the newfies that are keeping things running. CBC had quite the program tonight on how many out east head to alberta to work on the projects.
  20. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Shoot, even the headline saddens me. Canada 'an empire'? Because of its 'goo'? Canada aspires to be no empire, and its resources aren't baby-food. We're an astonishingly young country, which happens to 'own' a staggering amount of what the rest of the world wants, which we've been slap-happily selling already to our 'best friends' for decades. Which they slap-happily don't seem to know about. And which they would like nothing more than to 'take care of' for us, as our older and more experienced and more powerful sibling. Even as we disagree on things like the death-penalty, birth-control, sex-education, Darwinism, and the separation of church & state. My current Prime Minister Stephen Harper - would you or Sandra Buckler care to comment?
  21. Shaun Adamson from Brantford, ON, Canada writes: chris jenkins from Free the West, BC, Canada writes: All you Easterners hate Alberta but love to claim that it's resources are your own. Not so! How lucky you are that the Albertans you deride have been so overly generous with you. So far.

    --------

    'All you Easterners'...wow that is an overly generic statement. Honestly I haven't heard too many people around here deriding Albertans over their resource. Stop being such a hate monger.
  22. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Shawn Adamson from Brantford, Ontario:

    There's also oil on the offshore of Newfoundland, in the Arctic, British Columbia, etc., etc. There's probably also oil in other provinces/territories that we don't even yet know about. I am talking bigger picture here, Shawn...

    Here's a paper that I wish more Albertans would read from the Government Department at Cornell University in Ithaca, New York...

    http://www.cpsa-acsp.ca/papers-2007/Carter.pdf

    The paper is called 'Cursed by Oil? Institutions and Environmental Impacts in Alberta's Tar Sands'

    Sheikh Ahmed Zaki Yemeni (quoted in this article) also said, 'All in all, I wish we had discovered water?'

    Boy, Albertans are really paranoid, eh? -- I guess that is Mr. Trudeau's fault!
  23. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Shaun - you are correct - it is about supply and demand, but do we have to scorch the earth in a decade to continue the current madness? And to get a lecture from Dawn in Minnesota, part of the SUV/Hummer madness, is galling.

    As a native born Albertan, decendent from immigrant grandparents who homesteaded and responsibly farmed in central Alberta, I am ASHAMED at the rape and pillage of the paradise that was once Alberta.

    I am not anti development, but I am anti-uncontrolled-development and I am ashamed that our government is not throttling back the carnage. Alaska and Norway have implemented intelligent and measured development, but we are missing the opportunity to slow development and use the proceeds to be TRUE world leaders in alternative energy development.

    We are bit players in wind energy compared to Germany and several other European countries.

    It is OUR SUPPLY and we must secure OUR ENERGY SECURITY FIRST !!! The demand will always be there as long as we take the environmental short cuts to feed it.

    On the current path, we in Canada will ALL be the 'b*^stards freezing in the dark'. What a shame!
  24. OilerFan in FortMac from Canada writes: Interesting choice of photos to go with this cover story, the oldest tailings ponds in the oil sands (from Suncor) sitting a stone's throw away from the Athabasca River. How many think they hold everything in, 50 yrs later?
    And for the record, bitumen is not trapped in 'mud' as the G&M writes. The muddy layers are seperated out and trucked to dumps as waste, the money is in the sand only!
  25. John Carlson from Edmonton, Canada writes: I grew up in he 80's my dad sold his construction company because of the NEP. Thank god he did. Now its my turn. I will to not allow another NEP. The people in quebec but this on their on the license plate. We put it on our memory.

    Albeta
  26. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Please note that the boys from Texas have already arrived to this thread to preach on what a special kinship that they have with Alberta...

    Texas loves Albertans while all 'Easterners hate Alberta...'

    You guys are funny -- Mr. Trudeau really did screw up a number of your heads, didn't he?
  27. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: By all means, let's take advantage of the goo but let's also try to minimize the impact by improving the extraction process (e.g., sequestering carbon) and decreasing demands for greenhouse gas producing fuels.

    Scientific American News - January 24, 2008

    'Geophysicists Urge Steep Cuts in Greenhouse Gas Emissions'

    http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=geophysicists-urge-steep-cuts-in-greenhouse-gases
    http://tinyurl.com/33jo7r

    The scientists of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) warn that greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions must be slashed in half to keep temperatures from rising 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius) - or else. 'Warming greater than 2 degrees Celsius above 19th-century levels is projected to be disruptive, reducing global agricultural productivity, causing widespread loss of biodiversity and - if sustained over centuries - melting much of the Greenland ice sheet with ensuing rise in sea levels of several meters,' the AGU declares in its first statement in four years on 'Human Impacts on Climate.'

    The statement, released today, is the latest - and strongest - statement from the Washington, D.C.-based scientific organization on human-induced climate change. 'The record of the Earth's climate since the invention of the thermometer is much better understood now,' says physicist Tim Killeen, AGU president and director of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) in Boulder, Colo. 'This detailed understanding of the climate of the 20th century gives confidence in the ability to project into the future. It is now agreed that we can't explain the detailed temperature record of the 20th century without bringing to bear human effects and GHG emissions. That, in a way, is the smoking gun, the fingerprint.'
  28. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Interesting that they quote all of the environmentalists and Think tanks yet they do not quote any of the re-cycle ratios readily available from the producing companies on their websites nor do they discuss the work that is underway to store water for during low flow months of the Athabasca...
  29. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada:

    Well Said -- spread your message throughout Alberta!!

    You are right on in what you have said!

    If Albertans give Stelmach a fright in the upcoming election, things may change and Albertans like yourself may get heard!

    Perpetual, single party states are not in the interest of the general population in any country/province.
  30. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Sam Gallagher you said '......the rape and pillage of the paradise that was once Alberta....'

    Have you ever actually stepped outside the door of your house? Or are you worried about tripping over a DEMAG shovel cable? come on give me a freeking break, that is just a we bit of an exaggeration...
  31. Marv M from Canada writes: Yes, and the Amazon Rain forest has the potential for a monumentous payoff also. Lets get in there and cut all of those trees down. What's the difference between that and the Tar Sands? It's bad enough that Alberta is destroying it's Northern fresh water supplies and polluting thousands of Acres all for the sake of what? Money in some peoples pockets but a ton of pain and misery for the majority of other Albertans who have to put up with the off the charts Inflation, House prices and rents. Drug problems, congestion, crime, line ups, waiting lists, yeah!, the Tar Sands has been wonderful for Alberta.
    Never before in my life have I heard so many friends and relatives talking about their wish to move away from this Province as the thousands of transient workers continue to flood in.
    The Tar Sands has destroyed this Province and I know most people who are outside of the Oil industry would agree. Wages for most have not even remotely kept up with inflation or the skyrocketing costs at the same time Big Oil companies like Suncor continue to announce record profits.
    Join the masses, move to Alberta, there are thousands of crappy paying jobs which is good because most people who move here quickly find out that they need 2 of them to make ends meet. Oh, also, be prepared to work twice as hard because most jobs are understaffed. If you think you will find a cushy, high paying job that requires little effort, be prepared for a nasty surprise.
  32. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Whether environmentalists (and I count myself among them) like it or not, the Tarsands will be developed. It is important for environmentalists to educate themselves in economics as it is for Oil Companies to educate themselves in the environment. Technology is changing and ways are being developed to minimize the negative effects of development.

    Most people who think of themselves as 'Green' oppose nuclear power, yet that will probably be the best way to eliminate most of the GHG emissions from production in the Tar Sands.

    The problems with water usage and degradation in my opinion is the most difficult to resolve and the most important to find a solution for.
  33. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Marv M did it ever occur to you that the water in the Athabasca isn't really that nice after all? It has a couple of hundred km of oil seeping into it naturally... I wouldn't drink it even if there were no mines around... the oil flows right out of the banks into the river... Noone is 'destroying' the frexh wate rof the north, it is mostlly natural, as a matter of fact the report that the natives had written actually had a sample taken downstream of a large slump of tar sand 'naturally occuring' of course there was hydrocarbosn and nastys in it.. and completely natural....
  34. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: First-ever Report Card Gives Oil Sands Mines a Failing Grade

    Key Findings of the Report Card

    - While the majority of oil sands operations have comprehensive environmental policies in place, only two companies provided evidence of having an independently-accredited environmental management system such as ISO 14,001.
    - With the exception of the existing Albian Muskeg River Mine, no operation has voluntary targets to limit greenhouse gas emissions.
    - No project or company has publicly-reported targets to reduce water usage from the Athabasca River.
    - Despite more than 40 years of oil sands development, not a single hectare of land has been certified as reclaimed under Government of Alberta guidelines.

    http://www.oilsandswatch.org/
  35. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller, Thanks - but I am minor voice in the capitalist wilderness. And among we few enlightened voters, the emerging concensus is that the current bunch of Tories will be back with less power, but still with a majority and still stuck to our boots like a bunch of smelly doggie-doo. The Texans love us because after they suck us dry, we all in Canada will freeze in the dark while they will still have a warm climate down there in Galveston. Meanwhile, we will be here in Alberta, wading about in the hectares of the world's largest version of the Sydney tar ponds. The lakes in Northern Saskatchewan will be dead from acid rain and tar pond leeching, so Americans will not longer come to fish. And now Ed wants to pump our hugely excess emissions underground so we can poison the remainder of our underground water aquifer. Water will come with 'natural' flavouring like H2S, 84 octane, and diesel. And with the Glaciers on the Icefields Parkway (Banff to Jasper) gone due to the 'non-existent' global warming (according to George W), we will no longer have drinking water in the prairies and even the new Asian tourists won't come anymore because the grizzly bears will be gone. This is truly a shameful Canadian travesty in the making - we are selling our future for a wasteful way of life today.
  36. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: J Law from Canada:

    I think there is already compelling evidence that Premier Williams in Newfoundland and Labrador has learned to keep unions at bay with his left hand and corporate interests (particularly those corporations who may not always have the best long-term interests of his Province in mind) at bay with his right hand...

    In my estimation, this is the mark of a true 'Progressive' Conservative -- something that there is too few of in this country. Stelmach cannot achieve such a balance by being a complete toadie to the oil industry...
  37. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: John Carlson from Edmonton, the way you put it, it sounds like past NEP resentments rule your life. That's a shame. Sam Gallagher from Calgary sounds just as angry, but far more hopeful. I'm not a farmer, or a rancher, or an oil-woman, but I am a Canadian. And my ancestors pioneered the land on the prairies. Let's agree.
  38. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada:

    I understand, Sam!

    However, one voice in the wilderness is sometimes all that it takes if that voice decides to become very loud -- particularly, when that voice speaks the truth.

    Otherwise, what will you tell your grandchildren about what Alberta used to be like?
  39. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Alan Burke, what is the standard enthalpy of fusion for 1 cubic meter of ice? And based on that what would be the cooling effect on the atmosphere for melting enough ice to raise the sea level 'several meters' and after that how much co2 would end up in solution for each new cubic meter of fresh water that comes off the ice sheets?
  40. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Have you ever actually stepped outside the door of your house? Or are you worried about tripping over a DEMAG shovel cable? come on give me a freeking break, that is just a we bit of an exaggeration... Cardium - you are clearly a consumer of the 'Jonestown Koolaid'. To answer your question, I have travelled extensively through my 45 years living in Alberta - with hundreds of hours of that travel via bicycle on weekends and vacations. I know the difference between sustainable, manageable development and complete devastation. In addition, I have travelled extensively elsewhere in the world and have seen the devastating legacy of unbridled, unregulated development on other locales and peoples. For example, visit Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Rwanda, Tanzania, Zaire (now Congo), Syria, Jordan, Poland, Romania, and numerous other locations to see what your sacred 'uncontrolled' development does. Alberta, with all of its potential, is acting like a so-called banana republic with puppet politicians bending at any pressure from the oil companies. Alaska and Norway did not bend and maintained control. What's our problem? Perhaps it is too many Tory governments controlled by rural hacks who have no clue of life beyond whitebread Alberta. We owe it to Canada to take better care of Alberta for the benefit of all Canadians - not just the money guys from Texas. Get off the koolaid - it will open your perspective.
  41. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Sam gallagher you said =

    'And now Ed wants to pump our hugely excess emissions underground so we can poison the remainder of our underground water aquifer. Water will come with 'natural' flavouring like H2S, 84 octane, and diesel.'

    I don't know about you but I don't have my drinking water well in the Granite Wash, or Keg River formation that is 1600m underground that has a TDS of around 40,000 mg/l. I think the mile or so of solid bedrock will keep it down there for a long time.... think about what you are saying.....
  42. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada: Otherwise, what will you tell your grandchildren about what Alberta used to be like?

    Robert, I agree, but I have noticed that the truth gets squashed a lot of different ways and with considerable energy since 9-11. And if you speak in any contrary terms, you become instantly labelled as a terrorist, negativist, anarchist, and that most vile of American terms, a 'liberal'. Intelligent dialogue is increasingly a challenge to find - everyone seems to just want to shout each other down instead with labels. A sad commentary.

    We don't have kids, so no grandkids possible. I do feel, however, for my nephew and what is being done to his legacy.
  43. Shaun Adamson from Brantford, ON, Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, I am aware that other provinces and territories have oil and natural gas, I was just giving some examples. Actually, Ontario had decent reserves of oil and natural gas in the past as well, but they have all been depleted. That's the problem with nonrenewable resources, once they are gone, they are gone forever. Also Robert it's Shaun, not Shawn :).

    Sam Gallagher from Calgary, I agree with you. The way we have all treated the environment over the last 6-7 decades is a serious concern for me and actually presents a big moral dilemma. You see, I will be completing my Chemical Engineering degree in about 4 months and, in the past, the petrochemical industry did some nasty things. However, things have slowly improved. I can tell you that I will always try my best to do what is right for people. That's just about the only thing I can do. Unfortunately, I don't think there is enough willingness to change just now, but that doesn't mean that industry should act irresponsibly.

    Lastly, Go Flames Go !!! (there are a few Flames fans in the east).
  44. Cardium Crude from Calgary, Canada writes: Sam,

    Can you explain to me how the tailings will leach over hundreds of km into precambrian bedrock and into the lakes in northern saskatchewan? Give me a break... the aquifers around the tailings pond move at around 1-10 meter a year maximum, and leaching from the ponds is collected by wells ditches and other means and sent back into the process... what are you smoking, you have no idea what you are talking about.....
  45. Dawn from Minnesota from United States writes: To Mr. Gallagher who writes: 'but do we have to scorch the earth in a decade to continue the current madness? And to get a lecture from Dawn in Minnesota, part of the SUV/Hummer madness, is galling.' -----I agree with your point of view. I do not drive an SUV or a Hummer. I drive a Volvo 740 GL, which I have lovingly maintained for 18 years. I worked professionally in environmentalism: cleaning up and restoring wetland ponds, rivers, and streams in five states. I have multiple chemical sensitivity as a result of being exposed to industrial chemicals in the water at cleanup sites. I am a victim of the sort of pollution that is being created with abandon in Alberta, and I will suffer for the rest of my life. My one line comment (above) is hardly a lecture. Don't be so quick to judge people.
  46. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Shaun, I wish you well in your new career and I applaud your stated commitment to do the right thing. We all have a responsibility (unlike the ignore the problem attitude of Cardium Crude) to do our best.

    Government can never be at the cutting edge of everything, but business will be. And truly ethical business will recommend best practices because they have the knowledge, and social responsibility, to do so. A leading ethical business will work with government to do more than just minimally comply with regulations. In turn, that government must ensure that the business is able to compete in fair arena. That includes pounding on trade from countries that do not operate to acceptable labour, environmental, and commercial regulations.

    We need better than 'minimal' adherance to regulation and permitting every corner cutting country like China unfettered access to our citizens. Government and industry working together can be mutually protective of all of our citizens and commerce.

    Shaun, my friend, you are the future and I am encouraged by your refreshing dedication.
  47. Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: Dawn, thanks for your additional perspective. Chalk up my reaction to your one-line as a limitation of this conversation medium. I empathize fully with your chemical issues and I wish you more wellness going forward.

    However, I think we are in violent agreement that the excessive waste (on both sides of the 49th parallel) needs to be reigned in.

    I fear that our voices will both be silenced in the dim of mass scorch and burn here (and elsewhere) so that others can drive their Hummers over top of your Volvo 740 GL and my smaller Pontiac Sunfire.

    No offense intended - I hate what is happening to the Alberta my Grandparents help build.
  48. Bob G - from Hohhot, China, Canada writes: Thirty years ago I visited some family friends in Calgary from my home in Toronto. Alberta was a pristine jewel then. I warned the Calgarians of imminent environmental pollution if they didn't manage their environment properly. I'm sure they thought I was nuts.
    Today Alberta is the environmental albatross around Canada's neck.
  49. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Can the stories of people like 'Dawn from Minnesota' HELP US WAKE UP??
  50. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada:

    Keep talking, Sam!

    It reminds the rest of the world that there is indeed intelligent life in Alberta!

    I also find the interesting thing about the Alberta blogs compared to other blogs is these threads relating to Alberta are the only ones that you are shouted down for having an opinion in about ten seconds...

    Albertans seem very uncomfortable about actually talking about:

    (1) academic evidence from their own universities showing their water supply is being compromised and that their forests are being lost forever.

    (2) the royalties that Alberta is paid for their oil are amongst the lowest in the developed world

    (3) Alberta's GHG emisssions total approx. 110, 000, 000 tonnes CO2 annually -- By far, the highest emissions of any Canadian province.

    (4) Stelmach is not adequately addressing point (3) despite Canada's recent committments to curbing GHG emissions...

    Sooner or later, Albertans will have to start addressing these issues.

    I am glad to know that people like you are in that province!
  51. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Alan Burke... writes:'This detailed understanding of the climate of the 20th century gives confidence in the ability to project into the future.'

    Except their projections into the future aren't working out. Alan keeps quoting stuff like this that is simply not substantiated by the actual models.

    The models fail to 'predict the past' except for about 1960-2000 or so, and aren't doing very well at present since there has been no signifigant warming for over six years despite increases in GHGs.
  52. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sam:

    One final thought...

    I would speculate that a number of these shouter down types on these threads could likely be traced to the 'war rooms' of both the CPC and Albertans PC...

    Don't let governments tell you what you should think -- the facts on Alberta's water, forests, emissions are all easily accessed and you know them instinctively anyways from your posts...
  53. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes:'Don't let governments tell you what you should think...'

    Don't let political organizations like the IPCC tell you what to think either.
  54. Chris E. from vancouver, Canada writes: Canada should be to the United States what Russia is to Europe - a supplier of energy.

    What we need to do is scale back immigration in both countries and learn to prosper with what we have. Our populations are high enough - we don't need to add more energy consumers just to line the pockets of bank shareholders.
  55. Rob g from Japan writes: I think they meant monumental. Ryerson is producing some top notch journalists.
  56. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: Sam Gallagher from Calgary, Canada writes: And now Ed wants to pump our hugely excess emissions underground so we can poison the remainder of our underground water aquifer.

    Sorry Sam but you don't know what you are talking about. I'm not saying there aren't environmental concerns regarding the oilsands operations; but CO2 poisoning underground water aquifers is not one of them.

    Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto makes a good point when he says 'Whether environmentalists (and I count myself among them) like it or not, the Tarsands will be developed.'

    It's not just Alberta's provincial gov't and oil companies benefiting economically from the oilsands. Ottawa is getting a big chunk of the pie. That isn't going to change.

    I know many don't see it; but the pressure exerted by environmental groups as well as citizens is working. All of the companies are investing heavily in new technologies. Everything from water usage to extracting the metals from the tailings ponds.
  57. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: GlynnMhor of Skywall, Canada:

    I wonder why so few of the CPC/Albertan PC hack types use their real names?

    Do you actually think that the World Health Organization's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is less reliable than a bunch of phony studies put out by the politicos at the Fraser Institute and the 'Friends of Science?'

    I wonder if Dick Cheney liked that fishing gear that the Fraser Institute sent him last year?
  58. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: 'GlynnMhor: Do you actually think that the World Health Organization's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is less reliable than a bunch of phony studies...'

    When the IPCC makes claims that their models do not substantiate, then they're just not reliable. Not more or less, just not.
  59. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Bring up this link from the IPCC site, and go to page 684, figure 9.5:
    http://tinyurl.com/yplrpb

    Also bring up this one for comparison:
    http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/nhshgl.pdf

    The 1910-1940 warming clearly visible on the HadCRUT3 observations ran from about minus 0.51 to plus 0.01 (about 0.50 degrees) over thirty years. The 58-fold stacked model output shows minus 0.15 to plus 0.30 (about 0.45 degrees) over fifty years. The slope is way wrong (.017 vs .009 degrees per year) and so is the turn-over date from warming to cooling.

    The IPCC models just don't replicate the known observations, and are thus not reliable enough either to predict the future or to justify the conclusion that AGHGs dominate temperature change.
  60. Hugh Campbell from Canada writes: GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: 'Don't let political organizations like the IPCC tell you what to think either.'

    GM likely knows better than these groups as well:

    http://www.logicalscience.com/consensus/consensus.htm
  61. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Hugh, that link tells us nothing about the climate. It's a waste of bandwidth.
  62. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: A well written article. The oil sands are a good thing. I know people love to get up in arms over it, but think about the value Sudbury nickle factories have brought and the damage. Or the extreme poisoning of the great lakes due to greed. Its no different here. No worst, no better. But there is hope. We here are very connected to our environment, in a way many may not even understand. Many here were raised with miles of land and mountains and wildlife right outside our door. We like nature. When the great lakes were dying we didn't like it, but we also gave those whose lives were directly affected the benefit of the doubt that they would eventually fix it. We are still waiting but can see the winds of change happening. I can understand that many who don't live here might be concerned, but that is all you can be. Its up to us just like its up to you to fix your local problems. We'll do it, but we'll do it the only way we can, just like you have done it for your region the only way you can. Time. We will demand better from those that take and demand they give it back. Will it be perfect? No. But perfection is unattainable, yet knowing my fellow Albertains, we won't stop before we are satisfied with a reasonable result.
  63. Todd Spencer from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    Har har har.

    The tide, she has turned.
  64. Cyrus Of Persia from Canada writes: J.D. from St. Catherines (1:32 am), you beat me to it.

    Actually, monumentous, as a neologism, is useful and elegant, combining 'monumental' and 'momentous.' But it will of course lose all subtlety instantly, and fall among the ironed out and now popularly synonymous 'great' 'tremendous' 'terrific' 'fantastic' 'awsome'
    'fabulous' 'spectacular' etc. etc. each of which denotes a wondrous meaning, now all but lost.
  65. Todd Spencer from Victoria BC, Canada writes:

    NEP.

    Let the ba$ards freeze in the dark.

    Never forget.
  66. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: Huge. You'd do better at providing a solution such as http://www.logicalscience.com/technology/ instead of questioning a questioners valid questions and observations. To many it seem so perfectly wrapped. Ya know. Like there is a agenda at play here. Paranoid? Maybe, but still the thought lingers. Am I one to object to living clean? No way, I love the thought of clean, free energy, but somehow, someway, I feel manipulated by this AGW. Its not a good feeling. It seems like a fake reason to vote for a fake candidate promising fake goals.
  67. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: The complete picture is not good, Alberta will continue to spend money like drunken cowboys home from a long winter on range, which by the way was not really a bad life in the past. To-day big dollars are being made but families are not better off for it. The province will want more power and all those who had a country way of life will loose it forever if they have not already have. The drug trade has flourished destroying many lives and crime has increased while many of Canada's youth who have gone West are sadly missed by their families. The sad part is done deal and the West has almost become the new Toronto of Alberta...........how do like it now? and just think it's going to get even worst!
  68. John McCormick from Toronto, Canada writes: So does this mean we're next on the invasion list because of our oil?
  69. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: GlynnMhor of Skywall is a master of deceit, distortion and misrepresentation when it comes to climate change. He continues to spout the same nonsense in G&M commentaries although he has been rebutted frequently. You'll find answers for all of his objections on my website (and there's more coming). For example, he fails to note that the IPCC models do indeed track very well (see my figures 17 to 22).

    It's time to move away from denial that there is a problem to finding solutions to the problem. The cost of acting now is dramatically less that it would be if we continue to wait (see the Stern Review linked from my Fig. 33).

    The IPCC reports are all available for download from http://www.ipcc.ch and working group 3 (AR4-WG3) includeds recommendations for solutions. Yes, the IPCC is a political body reporting on thousands of refereed scientific papers but in general any political intereference with their reports has been to dilute the conclusions; the reality and risks are generally worse than those projected. A case in point is the dramatic annual melting of the Arctic polar icecap (see my Fig. 11).
  70. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Todd Spencer from Victoria, BC:

    Yes, Alberta committing suicide is really showing us, Easterners, for Trudeau's NEP...

    Mea culpa... gawd, are you for real?

    You sound as dumb as a CPC hack from Victoria that used to bash Danny Williams -- perhaps you know him!
  71. Eddie 'mush' Montanaro from montreal, Canada writes: The article forgot to mention all the corporate welfare given to big oil to get the goo out of the ground while at the same time Klein was blowing up hospitals in Calgary and selling off hospitals to his friends for pennies on the dollar.
  72. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: The Earth today stands in imminent peril

    ...and nothing short of a planetary rescue will save it from the environmental cataclysm of dangerous climate change. Those are not the words of eco-warriors but the considered opinion of a group of eminent scientists writing in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

    See: http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/the-earth-today-stands-in-imminent-peril-453708.html
    http://tinyurl.com/2mdeck

    and the study itself 'Climate Change and Trace Gases' published in 'Philisophical Transactions of the Royal Society':

    http://www.planetwork.net/climate/Hansen2007.pdf
  73. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: I was asked by 'Cardium Crude': 'Alan Burke, what is the standard enthalpy of fusion for 1 cubic meter of ice? And based on that what would be the cooling effect on the atmosphere for melting enough ice to raise the sea level 'several meters' and after that how much co2 would end up in solution for each new cubic meter of fresh water that comes off the ice sheets?'

    Given his other postings I'm assuming that these were rhetorical questions given from a prejudiced position but I'll answer some of it anyway.

    One cubic meter of ice would weigh a metric tonne (about 2,200 punds). With a 'heat of fusion' of 79.72 cal/g, it would require 79.7x10^6 cal to melt it. I don't have the rest of the numbers handy but I will note that the ocean level is rising (see my Fig. 4) and the Hansen paper noted above in my 7:03 AM EST posting describes a possible runaway melting scenario.

    A recent paper indicates in excess of 100 cubic kilometers of melting each from Greenland. See:

    http://tinyurl.com/2jmzgm
  74. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: That's each year.
  75. Alan Burke from climatechange.dynalias.com in Ottawa, Canada writes: See also 'Record Warm Summers Cause Extreme Ice Melt In Greenland'

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080115102706.htm

    Let's be careful how we extract and use that goo.
  76. Scott McLean from Alberta, writes: Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes:

    In my estimation, this is the mark of a true 'Progressive' Conservative -- something that there is too few of in this country. Stelmach cannot achieve such a balance by being a complete toadie to the oil industry...

    Acutally no. A 'Progressive' Conservative is a Liberal with a smaller wallet when it comes to social programs.
    Anytime you place 'Progressive' in front of a title, your I.Q. drops about 20 percent, as there is only one solution: Central Governance.
    You, Joe Clark, and Barbra MacDougal can all sit around a card-table out in Halifax and plot the takeover of the Liberal party.
    They have already taken in that troll looking May, so I'm sure the Big Tent can fit you in as well.
  77. pran manga from ottawa, Canada writes: Think again, Albertans and Canadians. Alberta will be environmentally destroyed, the rich will move elsewhere, and much of the created riches will be in the US.Is this worth it.Why not wait a while till we solve the ecological problems first? The wealth in the ground will not disappear, if anything, it will rise in value as oil stocks in the rest of the world diminish.
  78. The Bubble from Canada writes: If Alberta can supply America for the next fifty years, that's really not a lot of oil. If it was used to supply Canada, it would last roughly five hundred years. This stuff is so dirty to produce it really should be slowed down. The Americans want to use it up but they do have enough oil of their own down in texas and in the rocky mountains, they just want to use up Albertas first and they don't really care how filthy and torn up the place gets. What Alberta needs to do is jack up the price of oil or ask for more money for drilling etc. It is supply and demand but it seems in Alberta, the more the Americans demand, the less money is supplied.
    The politicians need to grow some cajones like Danny Williams, it's only about money, we here in the east aren't trying to take your oil or money or whatever, we see you guys as happily working along, believing in this weird hatred of the east which is propogated by texas oilmen so you will run to them and give them what they want. It's pretty spurious on the part of big oil. Bottom line is: a very large part of Alberta's population comes from Ontario and the image you have of this place is a little narrow and wrong, we are not the enemy, big american oil is.
  79. Bob Van Derlay from Canada writes: Thanks to the Globe for the great pictures of the oils sands operations under the caption 'Shifting Sands'. However the captions seem to be out of whack. For instance the 6th picture claims to be Syncrude and tailings ponds. The plant is clearly Suncor and this can be confirmed by reading the sign on the side of the tank with the blue roof. I have driven by that tank a few times. Also those ponds are not tailings ponds. They are mostly waste water from Upgrading. It is a shame to see such great material handled so carelessly.
  80. bob london from Canada writes: With Liberal Bellyaching above with Pseudo Environmental Religion Propeganda, WHY THE HE!! ARE ONLY LIBERALS MOVING FROM ONTRIO TO ALBERTA???????????!!!!!!!!!!!! CAN'T YOUR LEADER CREATE A FN JOB WITHOUT BUYING IT?????????? LOOK AT HIM SALIVATE PG 2.
  81. The Bubble from Canada writes: bob london is obviously American, it's so sad.
    On the upside... on google earth if you type in fort mcmurray there are a lot of pictures of the whole area including the sands development, it's pretty huge. I can't imagine, however, why Albertans would want to live in such dire straights as to not be able to keep burger kings open, wouldn't a little more control of the situation by the government so's y'all can live with a little less stress and pollution maybe a good thing for everyone?
    What's the rush in getting the whole tar pit dug up as fast as possible, the Americans seem to have the whole province on the run.
  82. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Alberta has a duty to remove the polluting effects of the tar sands, or shut it down.
  83. Black Jerry is a idiot from Canada writes: When we are old there will nothing left for our grandchildren. There will just be a polluted mess..even worst than now. I understand the money it makes but the cost is really high. We need electric cars and we could cut down on oil greatly. Even if the power came from coal its still much better than a gas car because they are 99 percent efficient and the BEST motor car is only 33 percent. We need to stop this destruction.
  84. The Bubble from Canada writes: I don't know why it can't be slowed down a little at least so the place could civilize a little. There's too much room for charlatans in this kind of environment. I know a guy that went out west and was going to start a capentry business, I worked a day with him and thought he was going to kill me sooner or later he was so wreckless on the job. This is what Albertans have to watch out for. I can't imagine what life is like in those ATCO trailers, there would be nothing to do if you weren't working. This has always been the problem for Alberta, good money but man o man the lifestyle is rough and try to get a woman out there... I lived in Williams Lake BC for a while but it was a nice town that was pretty close to an Ontario town. The biggest difference between the people out there and here is that people out there are more self starters than they are here, there's more of a business to the place. Small town Ontario is getting so old and there isn't much work anymore. I guess in a perfect world you might find a perfect life.
  85. lynn H from Canada writes: Oilsands are not only going to stay they are going to expand. Saskatchewan may have as much or more oil sands than Alberta. It is only a matter of time before they are in production too. Canada needs to adapt to this reality. Ottawa can work with the western provinces or against them. If they work with them then technological advancements like sequestration or a nuclear power solutions will happen much faster. If they work against them by removing and redistributing money to the east then valuable time and resources will be spent fighting. Money from the oil boom is already spread across the country in the form of equalization, employment, manufacturing and investments. No one is going to turn off this oil money tap.
  86. evelyn robinson from Canada writes: This dirty oil is destroying the environment of Canada. The oil should stay in the fround until it can be extracted in a more environmentally friendly way.

    Most of the money rolling in is going to foreign oil companies not Canadian interests. Our environme