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Gen Me: No more self-centred than you

TRALEE PEARCE

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 3:25 PM EDT 06/02/08

Teens and young adults no more narcissistic or self-aggrandizing today than three decades ago, says study ...Read the full article

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  1. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: Yeah that may true comparing the average teen with the average adult today, but society today is more self centered and greedy than it ever was.

    Someone lent me a DVD the other week, it was called "The Secret", the message was clear, flaky but clear... it's all about you, getting (deserving) material wealth simply by wishing for it... pathetic really.
  2. Luke R from Toronto, Canada writes: No! This can't be true. Everyone knows that the baby boomers are the greatest generation ever and no other generation will never achieve the level of magnificance the boomers did. The human race owes its existance to the boomers. All hail the boomers!!!
  3. Luke R from Toronto, Canada writes: can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: Yeah that may true comparing the average teen with the average adult today, but society today is more self centered and greedy than it ever was.

    Someone lent me a DVD the other week, it was called "The Secret", the message was clear, flaky but clear... it's all about you, getting (deserving) material wealth simply by wishing for it... pathetic really.
    *******
    Yes, but the author of "The Secret" is a boomer.
  4. B H from Toronto, Canada writes: We're all pretty narcisistic -- we act as if the world started with the last generation or two.
    http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=408989
  5. tom figg from Peru, Canada writes: Hey Luke, you hate boomers - that's alot of people to hate. Everyone born between 1945 and 1963. That's OK, I apparently am a boomer born in 1960 and I don't much care for those that came before me either. They went out and took everything first and drove up prices on everything, they're plugging up the normal career progression by not retiring and just by being there in such #@* huge numbers. It's all about them and the older ones are soaking up al the CPP funds and the health care dollars too. Which most of them never paid into. There will be nothing left when I get to retirement (approximately 90 years old based on my current RRSP investment portfolio) and certainly less than nothing by the time you retire. Am I bitter? Sometimes, but it's just not worth it. The more things change the more they stay the same. Older folks will always resent and be critical of the younger generations - it's because you're young and we're not. We were young once though and some of us can even remember how great it was. Enjoy it while it lasts.
  6. Matthew McGarvey from Ottawa, Canada writes: I can't fathom why the findings of this study are surprising; the boomer generation was previously known as the "Me" generation, for very good reason. They accuse their kids' generation of narcissism as a defence mechanism. Actually, their kids are pretty much following in their footsteps, so it is even less surprising that they are no more narcissistic than boomers; but of course, all that implies is that they are all very narcissistic.

    But the Gen X'ers in between boomers and their echo once again fade into the background, both statistically and substantively. Gen X constructed a social identity out of being insignificant, of being the unidentified cog in the room-divider office, exchangeable, expendable, unimportant, the Blank Generation with no chance of breaking into the upper echelons that the Boomers cling to with their "later retirement" policies, their ponzi scheme investments, their zeal to cut all incentive programs for people behind them; which simply means the top jobs will open up when their kids are ready to take over and it's too late for Gen X to make any difference.
  7. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: Narcissism is directly related to looks. Since the ugly people (recent immigrants excepted) nearly stopped having children 40 years ago and the average types usually only have one at most, the number of candidates for this are increasing. However, there is a moving scale and what would qualify one to be part of the narcissistic crowd in the past, just doesn't cut it today.

    What has changed is that there is very little social control on narcissism anymore. My elderly Mother might be taken aback by an overt display by a distant relative but for the rest of us, we realized long ago that society's "spoils" go disproportionatley to these types so perhaps they have a reason to strut. That's the way society is, unfortunately, but what can be done about it?
  8. Will Wynn from Canada writes: What's more, by some measures, teenagers and young people are actually displaying more of the positive expressions of narcissism, such as self-sufficiency, she found.
    =============================================

    There was a 60 minute segment as well as a G&M piece a few weeks back describing how young graduates today had to be handled with "kid gloves", how their teachers all clustered their grades because they didn't want kids to feel socially awkward by getting grades markedly below their peers. They also said that many of these young graduates were still living at home with their folks into their mid and late 20's.

    This article purports to tell us that these young adults are slef sufficient. Does that mean they are moving out and getting their own places or will they simply clean up their rooms and help mom with the dishes.

    Bottom line: Give me some grant money and I'll produce any report you want.
  9. Luke R from Torontoo, Canada writes: tom figg from Peru, Canada writes: Hey Luke, you hate boomers - that's alot of people to hate. Everyone born between 1945 and 1963. That's OK, I apparently am a boomer born in 1960 and I don't much care for those that came before me either. They went out and took everything first and drove up prices on everything, they're plugging up the normal career progression by not retiring and just by being there in such #@ huge numbers. It's all about them and the older ones are soaking up al the CPP funds and the health care dollars too. Which most of them never paid into. There will be nothing left when I get to retirement (approximately 90 years old based on my current RRSP investment portfolio) and certainly less than nothing by the time you retire. Am I bitter? Sometimes, but it's just not worth it. The more things change the more they stay the same. Older folks will always resent and be critical of the younger generations - it's because you're young and we're not. We were young once though and some of us can even remember how great it was. Enjoy it while it lasts.
    *********
    Wow! I don't hate them. I was mocking them in a satirical manner in my post. Satire and hate are two different things.
  10. Ron Hartlen from Canada writes: "According to new research, teens and young adults are no more narcissistic or self-aggrandizing today than they were three decades ago".

    If they're "teens" or "young adults", they weren't even here three decades ago.

    Return to teaching English Grammar anybody?
  11. Sylvester McMonkey McBean from Ottawa, Canada writes: The problem with boomers is not that they had it so good, but that they think they had it so hard. There've been a couple of threads recently (the students loans stuff of yesterday) wherein boomers under fire for having had their snouts in the trough rather more deeply than others have come back with comments to the effect that they had things just as tough. That kind of thinking leaves them feeling all smug and justified in denying any equity to generations which follow, and in using their democratic and market hegemony to continue to skew things to their own benefit. In short, boomers are no more selfish than anyone else - we just notice it more because they have all the stuff. And that will only get worse as they age fully into their twilight, more conservative years.
  12. JA M from Our Town, Canada writes: "Someone lent me a DVD the other week, it was called "The Secret", the message was clear, flaky but clear... it's all about you, getting (deserving) material wealth simply by wishing for it... pathetic really."

    Books like this have always been around. Check out a used book sale sometime.
  13. Broken Record from Victoria, B.C., Canada writes: What I think has changed is the attitude that one is beyond approach in everthing one does, what Lynne Truss calls the "eff you" syndrome. Look at the violence that often erupts amongst certain peer groups when the smallest slight or insult is perceived. Nowadays it seems everyone is dramatically, mortally offended by even the smallest criticism or suggestion that one is not perfect. I don't remember being is such a continuous state of offence when I was in my teens and early 20s and God knows our teachers, parents and professors didn't hold back when they thought we were less than perfect. I don't know how they manage now. I blame cable TV.
  14. Dr Strangelove from Tonga writes: There are two different things here: One's self image - how great do I think I am, and one's displayed attitude - how great do I pretend to be before others. May be one has changed more than the other.
  15. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: tom figg from Peru, Canada writes: "Hey Luke, you hate boomers - that's alot of people to hate. Everyone born between 1945 and 1963. That's OK, I apparently am a boomer born in 1960 and I don't much care for those that came before me either."

    Such a wide swath of humanity to hate. Sure the boomers born in the late 40's had it good but the later boomers - especially those who put a lot of years and effort into getting an education, did not fare well. The year from 1980 to 1995 were mostly quite bad for getting and keeping a job and as for promotions, well they went to the "experienced" older employees and most of these people were born between 1937 and 1946.

    THOSE were the really lucky ones. And when they retired, they were paid big bonuses to do so early.
  16. Neiland Robert from Canada writes: Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: "Narcissism is directly related to looks. We realized long ago that society's "spoils" go disproportionatley to these types so perhaps they have a reason to strut. That's the way society is, unfortunately, but what can be done about it?" While I would agree Narcissism is related to looks, I would not agree that it is mutually exclusive. I would argue that narcissism is a factor of one's overconfidence, which can be a result of looks, or other unique talents and abilities ... there is not absolute relativity to looks. For instance, take someone who has invented something unique in the .com boom. That individual might be a complete tech-nerd, and yet entirely narcissitic. My feeling is that Narcissism is directly proportional to one's strong confidence in one particular facet of themselves, and yet absolute lack of confidence in another facet of themselves. For instance, someone who is extremely good looking may also be dumb as a pos, hence, narcissism rears it's ugly head - all because the person is overcompensating for their lacking in other areas. In regards to age, I think that Narcissism tends to be an affliction of youth because only a mature person can openly recognize their own weaknesses and address them to become balanced and well rounded, thereby growing out of the need to feel self concious and equally dropping those nasty narcissitic behaviors.
  17. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [JA M from Our Town] agreed, but the feeling of desperation is more pervasive now. Maybe it is more reflective of the social state of affairs, thereby allowing authors to create larger UNTRUTHS in hopes that the disenfranchised buy into some "quick fix".

    As for the DVD... thankfully I didn't get roped into parting with my hard-earned money to view it, THAT conversation is yet to happen with the individual who recommended it. [YIKES]
  18. Henry Allen from East Bank on Don River, Canada writes: Luke R, poor baby, had it so tough. Awww! It's not his fault, because the boomers stole every opportunity for personal success and left none for anyone else, especially him.
  19. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Henry Allen] I think you've hit that one right on the head!

    Luke is expressing is frustration in a perceived "scarcity mentality" in that if someone else gets a slice of the pie, there won't be any left for him.
    Which also explains his outpouring of jealousy for other peoples' accomplishments.
  20. scamp the from Canada writes:
    Like duh duuuuuuuuuude.

    the way modern day adults talk, you'd think woodstock never happened, muscle cars ever existed, marijuana was only invented recently, kids always cleaned their room...

    In all seriousness, i think the difference in observation is not that kids attitudes have changed, but the way children are handled in society.

  21. S Boatright from Canada writes: Narcissism is more than self-love. It's the feeling of entitlement.

    http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/PersonalityDisorders/narcissism/narcissismdefined.html

    I agree that today's generation is no different than previous generations. As children and young adults - I think we all have a sense of self-importance. I think it's a normal part of growing and developing - intellectually and socially.

    However, I think the difference is that when we were young (I'm in my 40's) we were knocked back down to reality by our peers, parents, teachers, etc. Now we have a "kinder and gentler" approach to parenting and teaching.

    The problem is that the world hasn't become kinder and gentler. Perhaps we are doing a disservice to children by not allowing them to prepare for that when they are young, and can still turn to us for guidance. Instead we shelter them until they are adults - then push them out there to deal with it, without any skills to fall back on, because they've never faced these challenges before.
  22. Todd Sandrock from Canada writes: Matthew McGarvey beat me to it: the study indicates that the spawn of baby boomers are just as narcissistic as their baby boomer parents. Shucks, I could've told you that.

    Todd, in between.
  23. scamp the from Canada writes:
    S Boatright "The problem is that the world hasn't become kinder and gentler. Perhaps we are doing a disservice to children by not allowing them to prepare for that when they are young, and can still turn to us for guidance."

    But if we only had enough social services then the world would be a kinder gentler place :P
  24. Tim Fromhere from Cd. del Carmen, Mexico writes: Aristotle complained of youth disrespecting elders, just wanting to chat instead of doing exercise, and expecting everything to be just handed to them. I suspect that every generation has said something very similar since then, although I admit I have no evidence from 1027 or several other years.

    So, if every generation deteriorates regarding such characteristics, then the kids of 2500 years ago must have been absolute angels, super polite, extremely fit, and really eager to work to improve the lot of everyone. On the other hand, the baby boomer generation must have been a real super-arrogant, self-absorbed, lazy group of kids - but we were still a couple of steps better than the present day youth.

    Perhaps it is time to do a study into exactly why older people keep thinking this.
  25. Likes Cleavage from Canada writes: I myself think it is entitlement. For example look at sick time to day compared to yeasrs ago. Why is it so high? I also think that people now are less able to put up adverse things.
  26. Luke R from Torontoo, Canada writes: Henry Allen from East Bank on Don River, Canada writes: Luke R, poor baby, had it so tough. Awww! It's not his fault, because the boomers stole every opportunity for personal success and left none for anyone else, especially him.
    *********
    No, I didn't have it tough. I had everything handed to me. You brave boomers had to walk to school up hill both ways barefoot in the snow.

    OK, it's obvious that some people didn't pick up on the satire I was employing in my original post.
  27. NR Connor from TO, Canada writes: It's about time this information started to come out.

    Frankly, anyone observing society with any sort of objectivity couldn't help but notice that the high-water mark for self-absorption and sense of entitlement is usually set by fat complacent boomers.
  28. Friendly Anglo from Ottawa, Canada writes: Didn't Dick Van Dyke do a movie like this
    I believe there was a song in the movie "What's the Matter with Kids today" Paul Lynde may have also been in the movie.

    Let's all keep complaining. At least we're in the best country in the world.
  29. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: Neiland Robert from Canada writes: "For instance, take someone who has invented something unique in the .com boom. That individual might be a complete tech-nerd, and yet entirely narcissitic."

    The article also discussed self-aggrandizing but by definition narciccism is about looks and as such is based on factors that give these people an edge (at the very least) based on something they have had very little influence in, other than "selecting" the "roght" parents.

    Self-aggrandizing types can be a major pain, but unless they have a mental disease, they at least have done something to warrant it.
  30. Lung Hacker from Canada writes: If we're talking narcisism, isn't it unbelievably narcissistic to think that your own generation is superior to all who came after? Seriously, can you really simultaneously talk about the rampant narcissism in today's youth and your own generation's natural superiority without at least wondering if maybe you're not that different after all?
  31. B Ford from Edmonton, Canada writes: Plato wrote somewhere the the youth of his day were, in more philosophical terms, good for nothing.
    Little has changed. And yet youth of today are doing some wonderful things.
  32. tom figg from Peru, Canada writes: I think you guys are being too hard on Luke - give him a break.

    Luke, I know that your first post was facetious but don't tell me that there isn't a little resentment directed at the boomers in there. You should give them a break too, they only did/are doing what you would have if you'd had the chance. It is what it is.
  33. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: I think young people now are far more sophsticated and socially skilled than those of 30 years ago. But so bland. When are we going to have another spunky social movement that fires the imagination with ideas of a better world, and leads to entirely different ideas about living more meaningfully, and with a lot more fun?
  34. Lung Hacker from Canada writes: Just because Luke is critical of the boomer "greatest generation" mentality, that doesn't mean he's resentful.

    Also, responding to criticism with accusations of resentment and jealousy seems pretty narcissistic to me.
  35. E S from Waterloo, Canada writes: "On average, people are pretty normal."

    This strikes me as a decidedly silly observation.
  36. Jennifer Menna from Canada writes: Likes Cleavage from Canada writes: I myself think it is entitlement. For example look at sick time to day compared to yeasrs ago. Why is it so high? I also think that people now are less able to put up adverse things

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    100 Years ago people worked 7 days a week for 10 hours a day.

    The change is sick days (which do not exist in small companies BTW) along with Stat Holidays etc are because of changes to labour laws mostly due to unions. Everyone benefited and society has changed how we view the work life balance. I was reading an article about management style and the different generations. In one example the Manager (a boomer) wanted to write up an employee because he left at 5 instead of working late when there was no need to. As the manager felt he should be putting in long hours. I would say the biggest difference between the generations is that the younger ones are not willing to work long hours for no pay and no hope of advancement.
  37. W M from Canada writes: No more self-centred than people were three decades ago? Isn't that what's known as "damning with faint praise"? It's not that it's untrue, but we're not exactly measuring against a high standard.
  38. W M from Canada writes: Ironically, the last generation of Canadians who really had something to complain about - the ones who lived through the depression and the second world war - seem to have been less self centred than their children in many respects. But then, it may be a bit unrealistic to allow children to grow up thinking that the world revolves around them, then expect them not to be self-centred. Boomers (of which I am one) certainly grew up with that idea, largely by dint of numbers and generally higher education than their parents, whereas the kids since then seem to be more spoiled in the conventional sense.

    My impression is that there are some really great kids around today and some really lazy ones (maybe more of both than there was a generation ago). Having said that, I don' think the boomers were as tough as our parents (in terms of dealing with adversity), because we have never had to learn, and the current crop of kids seems even less tough/more dependent on their parents than we were.

    Which generation is to blame? I suspect that every generation of parents tries pretty hard to do what they think is right, but (hold onto your hat) none is perfect and (hold on even tighter) none ever will be.
  39. Lung Hacker from Canada writes: Tom Figg, did you just ask me if today's "youths" can't handle the truth that boomers are better than everyone else?

    I never asked anyone to "merely acknowledge" my "possibly absurd opinion" in a "manner that validates [me] as a human being," whatever that means. My point was that when older generations were young, they were just as selfish and entitled as today's youth. Your point, as far as I can tell, is that those traits never go away.
  40. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: I rather see people big on themselves then down on themselves.
  41. Upper Canadian born and raised in Western Canada from St Albert, Canada writes: Gen X here:

    Still recalling how 'free love' lead to aids.

    Stupid Boomers.

    =)

    Gen X: The group that has to constantly clean up after the baby boomer's 'bright' ideas.
  42. Gill Bates from Wroxton SK, Canada writes: Interesting article. Maybe now my parents will get off my back!
  43. Don Quixote from the Banana Belt Ont., Canada writes: They are not self centered - not the boomers and not the new generations:

    They are brainwashed by marketing, suggesting that they have to have it all. From the day they are born. Few manage to escape the cycle and really enjoy life, other people.

    When the highs of aquiring new stuff wears out, they are like drug addicts:

    They 'need' the next high

    Yet, when they leave live - they leave with nothing material - probably not with much of a soul either.......
  44. Josiah Smith from Shizuoka, Japan writes: I think someone mentioned Aristotle complaining about youth way back when.

    The current generation is always despised by the previous generations. Here in Japan, I've read books written in the 1910s and 20s where the author complained about youth in the day, or about how his or her grandparents would complain about young ones. Senior citizen friends of mine tell me how when they were young, their elders would complain about today's youth.

    You know, when I was younger, I would hear or read people saying, "We're working hard so that our children can have a better life." A laudible goal, and for the most part, acheived. And now I hear some of the same people ranting (yes, ranting) about how young people have it so good and don't deserve it. Is it jealousy? Insanity? Connect the dots for me, youth-haters!
  45. D A from Canada writes: Old people complaining about the young is, and has been a cliche, for as long as there have been humans writing things down to take note of human nature.

    What does this mean?

    It doesn't mean that you boomers are especially selfish itself. No, much, much worse.

    You're getting old. And you envy the young.

    Don't worry though. We'll have our own turn at being bitter when we start getting into our 60s.
  46. D A from Canada writes: Oh, and no one needs to be "brainwashed" to act exactly as every other generation has acted. If you think there was ever a generation that didn't want it all, you aren't remotely conversant with history or literature.
  47. Basser Basser from Canada writes: Self indulgence. I am a Baby Boomer and I personally still feel that even now the Baby Boomers are the most self centred scarf down the good life and to hell with everyone alse generation ever. The kids today are comming up in a world depleted of the easy low hanging fruit and will likely not have the standard of living the boomers as a whole did. They in short will be left with a lot of financial and environmental crap to deal with. I feel sorry for them
  48. David Gehring from Ottawa, Ontario, Canada writes: With technological progress and economic growth, the quality of life for the next generation will always be better than the previous one. This feeds into the older generation's perception that younger people are spoiled and live an easier life than their predecessors. What I think the narcissism study was concluding is that this perception is a psychological aspect of adulthood that has been relatively common across several generations. However, I think older generations should take pride in the fact that they have contributed to society and made the world a better place for subsequent generations... and wouldn't that be a more positive narcissism that we should all adopt?
  49. The Natrix from Toronto, Canada writes: Its all simply associated with the internet and digital media. We can all get things in a instant. There is almost no such thing as waiting. The younger you instill this in somebody, the more 'self' centered we all become, hence, kids being more about them (just as my generation was compared to the one before).

    But this leap in technology in such a short period of time is far greater then in previous past leading to this instant gratification. Also, the information that they have access to leads one to expect to cut through the BS in the working world (I noticed this more when I recently went to a business event for my alumni... since when did these little kids all get business suits?!)
  50. tom figg from Peru, Canada writes: Lung hacker - I never said that boomers are better than everybody else and I don't think that they are. I don't think that statistically generated demographic groups necessarily have any validity - it's not like demographic groups are teams with jerseys chanting "we're number 1 let's stick it to the other generations". There is little use in whining about what other people are doing or have done and why that makes it so hard for us - just adapt, never give up, never surrender because if you do, then you really are a loser.
  51. Matthew McGarvey from Ottawa, Canada writes: Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: I think young people now are far more sophsticated and socially skilled than those of 30 years ago. But so bland. When are we going to have another spunky social movement that fires the imagination with ideas of a better world, and leads to entirely different ideas about living more meaningfully, and with a lot more fun?

    _____________________

    You obviously don't know many young people if that's how you feel. And "ideas of a better world" without sustained attempts to achieve it are nothing more than narcissistic fantasy.

    I think the essence of the boomers from the so-called counter culutre 60's can be summed up in the lyrics of the Ten Years After song: I'd love to change the world, but I don't know what to do, so I leave it up to you. [unstated lyrics - meanwhile, I'm going to get laid, ingest mind altering substances - pot, then LSD, then coke, then valium, then wine, then exotic single malts, then port, play the stock market and argue for no taxation on the gains, run the real estate market up to unattainable levels which will plummet when I retire, send the poor kids to a proxy war instead of the middle class kids, decimate the social programs that allowed me to get where I am, and run up a deficit which I don't know how to solve; so I leave that up to you too].
  52. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Hi Matthew McGarvey. I agree with you that many boomers and other creatures of the 1960s and even 70s were nowhere people who evolved into offensive consumers of everything in sight. But so many more were and are forward-looking idealists who turned their ideas into reality. I strongly suggest referencing a few more tunes and getting away from the word-salad speeches of Good Will Hunting!
  53. Kay Ay from Canada writes: Teenagers will never change until they stop having expectations that are unattainable. And luckily that will never happen.

    It isn't generational...it's growing up. And the trappings have changed but whether you were the first one in your class to have a record player, walkman, disc man, or MP3 I think the feeling is the same.
  54. Hydrogen Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: The kids are alright. Looking back, when I was 18 I didn't have a clue about anything. And I was not alone. The kids today are fine. We envy them because they do not realize the beauty and the good fortune of youth, while we do.

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