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The time has come to kill all the plastic bags

JENNIFER CLAPP

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 12:57 PM EDT 24/02/08

Global movement against plastic shopping bags reflects powerful impact of initiatives that emerge from local concerns ...Read the full article

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  1. D. G. from Burnaby, BC, Canada writes: Stupidest idea ever. "Ban plastic bags", and what, use paper? or is everyone supposed to walk around with 5 to 10 "authorized enviro-bags" stuffed in their pockets just in case they decide to buy something? Or are we supposed to haul our goods away in wooden crates?

    I recycle every gram of plastic that comes in my house, that is what you do, you "recycle" so it doesn't go into landfill. And to encourage more recycling how about offering cash per bag or per gram? It works well for bottles and cans.

    In Vancouver the wing-nut city council wants to charge a "green tax" on every plastic bag, ya sure, as long as you give me back the same amount for every bag I recycle. But I doubt that is what these mental midgets have in mind, as the green tax by itself is literally nothing more than a licence to steal money. People will still need to use a plastic bag for their groceries, only they'll be forced to pay money to some nebulous government body for it, and still have no reason to put it in the recycle depot. Solves nothing, but thats what the ideas from government do best.
  2. Robert Boyd from Windsor, Canada writes: Since I'm one of the few who actually walk for pleasure (not to have my dog empty it's bowels in the public parks) the plastic bag, man o'straw, surprises me.
    It aint the bags, it's the plastic-no-deposit-no-return-fashion designed-water bottles I trip over that are the blight on the landscape.
    Deluded prats, paying good money for H2O that they can get from a laboratory certified municipal supply.
  3. tiffany fox from Canada writes: i love my recycled, reusable bags. i have ones from no frills, sobeys and giant tiger now...great to use for all manners of shopping, library trips, trips to the beach, for school when the work overflows the backpack and so on. they were even handy for last minute christmas gift bags.

    its just getting into the habit...we get so set in our ways. my grandmother keeps hers in her car so she remembers to take them when she goes shopping. its also a tricky remembering to tell the cashiers you have resuable bags before they start bagging up your purchases! only place i dont have that problem is at no frills where they ask you if you need bags because they charge you per bag.

    of course, the whole more taxes part we could do without. we could nip it in the bud and just make the transition ourselves.
  4. Bobby the K from Bogarttown, Canada writes: .

    There is a pile of floating garbage, first discovered around 1997.
    It floats around in the Pacific and is mostly plastic.
    Surprisingly enough, not a lot of people know about it. Surprising because it is more than twice the size of the continental United States.

    http://tinyurl.com/2vrr9b

    .
  5. enoch metatron from Canada writes: Are warehouse clubs, such as Costco and the Sam's Club division of Wal-Mart, going to win environmental awards since they never provided plastic bags?
  6. Pete A from Canada writes: Reuse the bags.

    Before the industrial revolution, I wonder what did the people use to carry their stuff? Leather/paper/straw bags? Or maybe they didn't buy so much junk??
  7. Mary Ann Varkaris from London, Canada writes: Most people should have no problem cutting back on their plastic bag use. If you don't want to carry around the bulk of a cloth bag, then keep a folded plastic bag in your jacket pocket, briefcase, backpack, purse - whatever - and reuse it! Keep your cloth bags in your car. And, for heaven's sake use refillable mugs and water bottles. I still get a few plastic bags here and there to use as kitchen garbage liners, but I've cut my use of plastic bags by well over 90% in two years and I never buy plastic water bottles or coffee in toss-away cups (a lexan mug is much nicer to drink from anyway).
  8. bill wilson from Taiwan writes: About time! Having travelled throughout the world, I have sen the damage that plastic bags do first hand. It is horrendous. As for Canada banning them, just look to Ireland...they have successfully done so and so can we. The cost is minimal, the benefits huge.
  9. n a from Toronto, Canada writes: I use plastic bags to pick up my dog's poop in the park. Imagine the mess if I didn't. This plastic bag and light bulb environmentalism reminds of me of my office when they want to start cutting costs. Instead of cutting back on executive perks they start counting how many pencils are being used. So instead of nickle and diming us about plastic bag use, how about talking to the idiots with four cars in their driveways or heated backyard pools? And China as an example of environmentalism is laughable as they are one of the biggest industrial polluters in the world.
  10. Al MacDonald from Think GR$$N, Canada writes: The re usable bag is a great alternative to the plastic bag, but compostable plastic bags are now commercially available with a tensile strength 10 times stronger than plastic. They can also be reused many times. As many municipalities move to ban or tax plastic bags, we will see more and more compostable bags show up in the market place, as some people just don't want to carry around the reusable cloth bags.
  11. james castle from Canada writes: I think it's digusting that other people are trying to put in another ban and therefore force their views on others. Don't want plastic bags? Don't use them.

    For now, I'll get all my grocercies double bagged in an effort to counter-act this madness.
  12. David Simon from Canada writes: Global movement? I've not seen a singel store that doesn't use plastic bags. I use them afterward to collect my garbage before throwing my garbage out.
  13. W.A. Darnell from Canada writes: What a bunch of self-centered whinners who feel it's their right to use plastic bags. It's not about you, stupid; it's the environment.

    Let's start the next global movement that is more respectful of the environment -- banning flyers and junk mail.
  14. E. Biggs from Canada writes: Does not matter what I think as the Gov. will decide for me and tax the hell out of me to implement it.

    I am here in Arizona for the winter and am amazed that they have no facilities for recycling plastic bags, they just go into the trash.

    Cannot talk for all of Arizona but here there is no recyling of any kind. There is one depot a few miles away that you can take your stuf too but not plastic.

    In California you have to recycle everything.

    Wild
  15. Dan Ficken from St. John's, Canada writes: Hopefully they come up with a plastic bag ban, or a plan or sorts, at least in Newfoundland. I have personally cleaned tonnes (yes metric tonnes) of bags out of rivers, drains, trees, streets, off beaches, cliff sides, and anywhere else a plastic bag shouldn't be. If you can imagine how much a bag actually weighs, you can imagine how many bags make up a tonne. That's just myself over the past few years, that's only just begun to scratch the surface. Imagine how many other people pick up bags, and imagine how many bags are in the sea off our coasts that I have not accounted for. There is so much plastic bag pollution, what we see on the land is only a representation of what must be underwater, as the shore winds blow the bags out to sea. I have also walked through places that are locally called plastic forests, which are commonly found behind box stores and landfills, which are generally located on city and town outskirts where there are a lot of trees. These areas seem to attract bags that blow around the parking lots, resulting in the surrounding trees clogged with bags. I am only speaking for Newfoundland here, but I can imagine in more populated areas the problem is worse. I have been bringing my own cloth bag to the supermarkets and stores regularly for years. They are durable, attractive, weightless, and can hold about 5 times as much as a plastic bag. I have been using the same one for many years and it is still going strong. To the person above who wrote that they are too hard to carry around, I think they need to give it a try. It was one of the easiest lifestyle changes I ever made. If we cannot be bothered with a ban here in Newfoundland, let alone Canada, maybe we can take the initiative and just stop using plastic bags.
  16. James B from Gold Coast, Australia writes: Warning Canada, the "anti shopping bag" movement will be awful. Here in Australia there is nothing worse than standing, sweating at the supermarket checkout on a hot day (over 30 c today) in February, and after purchasing your 15 items being asked if you want a bag.

    "No, actually I was going to juggle all of the items back to my house today Miss...aren't you glad I'm not driving?"

    Give me a break!!! Then the look the clerk gives you when you say "Yes, a bag would be nice and can you double bag it...I'm walking".
    Once again we are focusing on a blanket ban, when surely we should be focusing on the people who don't put their litter in trash bins.
    What is society coming to? Does anybody take responsibility for any of their actions anymore?
    I guess the reason some people toss their empty bags onto the sides of roads, etc is because they had a hard childhood. After all, it couldn't be that they are just damn lazy....it's not their fault, no really it's not....
    So as a result let's just inconvienience everyone else on the planet...
  17. M. R. from Canada writes:

    I must be missing something. I too recycle plastic shopping bags. Does this mean all plastic is eventually to be banned?

    What does concern me are plastic kitchen garbage bags. These end up with organic waste in them and therefore end up mixed in with organic waste. All kitchen organic type garbage should have 'plastic' type (non leaking) bags that will break down over time.

    I remember my grandmother used to wrap wet garbage in old newspapers then dispose of it into a brown paper garbage bag. No plastic bags 50 years ago.

    Living in a hi-rise makes composting unavailable but we do have an excellent recycle system here.
  18. bill wilson from Taiwan writes: "And China as an example of environmentalism is laughable as they are one of the biggest industrial polluters in the world."

    Making all that crap for you!
  19. C D from Burlington, Canada writes: I have to confess that I cannot understand people such as D.G. who wrote the first comment on this story. Why do people feel that it is their god-given right to go to a store and haul away their purchases in plastic bags that are designed for the sole purpose of getting from the store to the car (and with the added benefit of advertising for the retailer)? It is a privilege -- not a right. Recycling plastic bags is commendable, to be sure, but doesn't it make more sense to buy a re-usable bag that doesn't need to be recycled? Think about it, people. Do you buy disposable pants that you use once and then recycle or throw away? Hopefully not. Then why should shopping bags be disposable? And contrary to what these people think, it is NOT that difficult to remember to take one or two cloth bags with you to the store. In addition, they hold about three times as much as a typical plastic bag, and never require double-bagging. It drives me nuts when I see people at video stores asking for a bag to carry their two DVDs out to their car. I think even the smallest child could manage the dubiously herculean task of carrying a couple of DVDs 25 metres or so. Just because things are the way they are now does not mean that this is the way they should always be. This is such a very small aspect of human behaviour that could be easily changed, and it will have a very significant and visible impact on the environment. Sure, people are using more and more re-usable bags, thanks largely to the efforts of some retailers, but it needs to be mandated from the top down.
  20. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Retailers have to start selling the plastic bags or there will be a tax grab that amounts to the same thing. It doesn't have to be much, as little as 5 or 10 cents per bag. People think and behave differently with a purchase as opposed to a freebie.
  21. M Hawk from Canada writes: Well, looks like there is an awful lot of people complaining that they need to use plastic bags for various reasons and/or they ALWAYS recycle them. I say bull. You can buy biodegradable dog poop bags for pennies a bag. You can also buy cheap, reusable canvas bags, or even those nylon ones that roll up into bag smaller than a lipstick tube. I doubt you really NEED to have your plastic bags, it just might make your life a tiny bit more difficult.
    Sure, maybe you recycle, but the problem is that the other billion people in this world DON'T.
    Bring on the ban! i support it whole-heartedly.
  22. A Big Black Dog With Two Tails from Leduc County ex St. John's, Canada writes: Ban the damn things. The canvas re-usables work better as grocery bags and you can buy small biodegradable plastic bags for picking up those warm dog terds.
  23. Leslie Tobias from Toronto, Canada writes: Banning the plastic bags is great. Will in work in Canada. Maybe in some parts. As Canadians we seem to adopt "environmental" concerns later than most countries. We prefer plastic because of it is convenient. especially on rainy days. We have dirty streets. We have people using our transit system ttc/bus shelter for advertising - that causes alot of garbage. We may reduce the plastic bag, but we will replace it something else. Garbage is everywhere in Toronto. The city doesn't clean-up. NorthYork is increasing becoming very dirty. You can post anything on the street and let papers fly all over the place. Nobody cares. Everybody does it.

    When I was growing up - we didn't call it "environment" we called is being clean, having respect for property and keeping the streets clean. It was called "pick-up your garbage" "do not litter". etc. etc.

    Plastic is a concern. However, since we don't care about garbage on the streets, garbage on the TTC - plastic bags will still be in Toronto for a long while together with plastic diapers. Alot mothers will great be upset over that - Plastic is part of society. Let's see if Poeple really care .
  24. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: The fact that people buy into this schlock is testament to the poor job our education system is doing.

    The typical re-usable plastic bags have about 70 - 100 times the plastic of the regular ones. I get two uses out of most of my plastic bags - the 2nd use is to line the 'wet' garbage can. (There is technology available to make regular platsic bags thinner and stronger - using Ethylene/Styrene interpolymer- but people are afraind of using the thinner bags and tend to double bag.)

    To make sense, the re-useable ones would need to be used 70 times. This is not likely as food tends to leak and handles begin to break after a while.
  25. Go Oilers Go! from Canada writes: My message to those of you who don't want to quit using plastic bags...get used to it.

    The feedstock to make plastic is a hydrocarbon; ethane to ethylene to polyethylene.

    Recycling plastic bags is irrelevant.

    The feedstock is running out.

    The plants are high GHG emitters.

    Just be thankful we didn't follow through on Kyoto.
  26. Sami Lama from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't understand why so many people on this forum have such a disdain for a ban or implicit tax in the form of paying for the plastic bags at the checkout. It is NOT a right to knowingly contribute to the destruction of the environment. I have changed my behaviour accordingly - I take a normal-sized backpack to the grcoery store with me (and I walk or bike whenever possible). When I do need to use a car I have several cloth bags which are reused. No Frills even has cardboard boxes available.

    I actually think a charge of 5-10 cents is much too small. It should be $0.25 or $0.50 per bag to really change people's behaviour.

    It would be nice if bans could be avoided but from some of the postings I have seen, clearly people do not readily take responsibility for their own actions.
  27. Jean Malice from Calgary, Canada writes: The global ecofascism starts with pastic bags and will end up with us...
    DG first comment here, RIGHT ON!
  28. mike r from Southern Ontario, Canada writes: It's not really all too hard to get away from plastic bags, if I know I'm going grocery shopping I bring them with me, or carry a backpack if I can. The cloth bags hold a lot more than plastic bags anyways and don't break, so they are more efficient. And I use biodegradable bags for my little city compost container under my sink anyways, and then use that to pick up after my dog. It's good to see people do recycle their plastic bags, but if someone really wants to it's not too hard to move to cloth bags altogether. If I buy a dvd or something small I just put it in my pocket or carry it around, girls I know use their purses and don't need that extra plastic covering when they're just gonna put it into another bag anyways. I understand when people complain about having someone else's beliefs forced upon them, but when something is productive and can actually bring around some good it's not bad to at least try to adapt to what people are saying, just to see if it works for you as well. As someone else said it's just putting in the effort, it'll help in a variety of ways in the long run if you do
  29. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: Go Oilers Go should do some research on the amount of hydrocarbons available in oil shale. There are plenty of hydrocarbons.

    Most plastics today come from hydrocarbons feedstocks - incluidng ethane - that are taken out the natural gas stream in fractionators. In essence, ethane - the primary feedstock for Alberta ethylene is a by-product. Making ethane into plastic means that it is isn't used for fuel (or flared.) If we used the ethane for fuel to create electricity to make paper bags, our GHG emmisions would go way up.
  30. Mike Z from Canada writes: People like D.G. (first post) who rant about their "right" to use plastic grocery bags remind me of the same people who ranted when they switched from leaded to unleaded gasoline.

    Get over yourselves. Are you foaming at the mouth because your local municipality won't let you burn your garbage in your backyard as well?

    Life is full of choices, and we live in a free country, but neither means that you can do anything your fancy inclines you to.

    This is a reasonable movement that is attempting to produce positive environmental changes by altering the behaviours of consumers. Kudos to each and every community that embraces this kind of grassroots change.

    D.G. -- I'm guessing you never shop at Costco huh? And you probably think that nobody shopped for anything prior to the invention of the plastic shopping bag?

    Now time for some more changes. Get rid of items whose sole value is so that lazy consumers don't have to put in an ounce of sweat. Ban disposable cutlery and plates. Ban non-rechargeable batteries. Ban paper hand-towels in bathrooms (blow driers are much more hygenic and produce no landfill waste).
  31. Alex Yaxmos from Canada writes: A lot of people use those grocery plastic bags for other things too. So instead of getting them for free they will just buy them from the stores. It might reduce the number of bags, but there will still be demand for plastic bags. Also, the crude oil we just be used for make gasoline anyways. So it really doesn't reduce the pollution. A complete ban isn't the way to go.
  32. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Sami Lama from Toronto, Canada writes: ...I actually think a charge of 5-10 cents is much too small. It should be $0.25 or $0.50 per bag to really change people's behaviour.
    -------------------------

    3 cents per sac deters here. Stores crossed the line. Don't be so impatient for a quick win. You'd be surprised...
  33. Johnn Baraka from Victoria, Canada writes: W.A. Darnell
    ___________

    Your wish is my command. http//:www.reddotcampaign.ca to be part of the no junkmail movement. This was used in a story published by the Globe this past weekend.
  34. Johnn Baraka from Victoria, Canada writes: Jean Malice
    __________

    Let me guess, you drive a truck also.
  35. bruce reid from Chippawa, Canada writes: Is this what we want? Ban plastic bags. Ban SUV's. Ban non-organic foods. Ban fast food restaurants. Ban non-low-flush toilets. Ban pesticides. Ban heated pools. Ban airplanes. Ban large dogs. Ban fur. Ban meat. Ban gasoline-powered cars. Ban single-family dwellings. Ban polyester clothes. Ban all plastics. Ban air conditioners. Ban passenger cars. Ban rap music. Ban gay marriage. Ban religion. Ban tattoos and peircings. Ban alcohol. Ban outlandish hairstyles. Ban chewing gum.

    Ban anything and everything that opinion polls show are unpopular or unpleasant to a simple majority.

    Or, we can treat adults as adults. Charge them with responsibility. Inform them of the consequences of their actions. Hope that they will be as respectful of us as we are of them.

    And realize that although they may not always agree with us, we do not have the right to force them to do what we want.
  36. Johnn Baraka from Victoria, Canada writes: bruce reid
    __________

    Many people will not act responsibly enough to care about the world that they live so YES there must be bans put into place.

    You missed a very important one though, the repulsive SMOKERS! Are you one of those?
  37. Bobby the K from Bogarttown, Canada writes: .

    I don't understand the problem with banning plastic bags. Alternatives like cloth or less bulky mesh bags have already been available for years - and they are actually better to use!

    Here's a tip, consume less, walk more. Stop complaining and start thinking about how grateful we should be to live in one of the best countries in the world.
  38. Bob Gladish from Dundas, writes: I consider myself green-minded, but I have to say I'll have considerable trouble weaning myself off plastic bags: the things are just so handy! What am I going to line my garbage cans with? The person who comes-up with a reasonably-priced biodegradable alternative is going to make a fortune. Those ninety-nine cent bags the grocery stores are selling just don't cut it.
    That being said, did you read the story of the huge area of the Pacific Ocean near Hawaii that has become a receptacle spot for hundreds of thousands of plastic items?
  39. karen baird from edmonton, Canada writes: I didn't know there were bio-degradable bags for picking up dog poop. Now I'll consider buying them. But what to do with the two cupboards full of plastic bags that I've accumulated? Our city's recycling program is VERY good, but they don't take plastic bags or plastic wrap. This issue has only come to my awareness in the last couple of months (although it doesn't take a genius to figure out these bags don't disappear once they leave my hand). We use them for picking up after the dogs, and remember to take them to Superstore, Canuck Tire, etc. (sometimes). I also use several cloth bags and we also use wire/hard plastic baskets. I didn't see anyone else mention that Superstore charges (and always has) for their plastic bags, which is a good idea - like a stupid fine for forgetting to bring your own from home. Some people refuse to shop there (and always have) because of that charge. But the whole topic of environmentalism sometimes takes erratic and nonsensible turns. There's a big push for people to buy new appliances that use less electricity - good. But what happens to the old appliances? Sure, they had an energy impact, but when you stop using them, how efficient is the recycling program in your municipality so it doesn't go to the landfill and rot for 2000 years, possibly contaminating the land and water? Same with fuel-efficient vehicles. Terrific that you're buying a new Prius, but not if your old vehicle was only 4 year old. For the record, my husband and I each have SUVs - full size. One is six years old, the other is seven. We carpool most days and plan our trips for time and fuel efficiency. I agree with a previous poster about drinking tap water. It's regulated way more than commercial water. Alberta gives a return for water bottles, but what a waste of money to buy stuff that's already in your tap. Now if only there was a refund for milk containers, litter in our city would drop drastically because bottle pickers would get them.
  40. L Harder from Canada writes: There is lots more that can be done to improve recycling. Styrofoam and plastic packaging is my pet peeve. When I was in Japan I could recycle styrofoam but have no options here. And how about other plastic products. All should be recyclable or biodegradable.
  41. Garry Sugden from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: I won't do a thing to stop using (once) plastic garbage bags until I am forced. However, I'll be happy to do whatever is required once the ban is in.

    Thinking about alternatives, couldn't we instigate a poor-country cottage industry making semi-durable, fully degradeable straw bags? This might be a step toward solving both environmental and diplomatic problems.

    Pay $1 dollar for a bag with 2x the volumn of a plastic bag ... Straw bag lasts 6 weeks replacing 6x2x1.5 (for double bagging) = 18 bags which at 5 cents a piece is 90 cents. If you don't want to exploit poor people, pay $2!
  42. bj sutherland from Victoria, Canada writes: We're making a real effort to do away with plastic at our house. Using tap water that is cooled in a covered glass jar in the fridge and stainless steel portable water bottle. No plastic bags for shopping trips. Recycle paper and cardboard and compost most kitchen waste. Hardly have any 'garbage' to be picked up. I found biodegradable doogie doo bags and wonder if those are available in bigger sizes to use as garbage bags? Anyone know?
  43. Andrew Chong from Toronto, Canada writes: Currently, I walk my plastic shopping bags home, then reuse them as garbage bags. If the enviromental Nazis get their way, I will have to buy plastic garbage bags (no savings on plastic), and maybe drive to the stores (to make sure I have the correct reusable bags), emitting GHGs in the process.
  44. K Bruner from Canada writes: James B from Gold Coast wrote "Here in Australia there is nothing worse than standing, sweating at the supermarket checkout on a hot day (over 30 c today) in February, and after purchasing your 15 items being asked if you want a bag."

    If that's the worse thing you have to deal with then count your blessings. And next time pack a reusable bag before going to the store.
  45. anais l from Canada writes: I've been using the reusable grocery bags (from dominion, big carrot, loblaws, etc) for quite a long time now (5-6 months) and I find them very handy. They're very sturdy, and I didn't manage to break any of them yet (I have about 7) even though I fill them to the rim with fruit or heavy milk bags (yeah I know can't get away from plastic!!).

    It's not a big deal really, and I use a lot less plastic.

    I do it because I have a son and I want him to be able to see nature when he grows up. Do it because it's the moral thing and it's the right thing to do, even though it might be inconvenient.

    We really have to shift away from the selfish, self-centered view that seems to be endemic in our society.

  46. K Bruner from Canada writes: What did people use before disposable shopping bags were invented? Why they used sturdy shopping baskets or cloth bags. In fact, in many European countries people still use baskets and shopping caddies to load up their groceries and get them home. What's so difficult about that?
  47. K Bruner from Canada writes: Well put, Anais I.
  48. Hannah McCormick from Canada writes: I walk to the grocery store. It is far more practical to use sturdy cloth bags.

    My grandma had a unique approach to reusing plastic bags- she would tear theminto strips, twist them into 'rope' and knit that rope into containers. She has a loosely knitted one she uses as a bag for her garden tools.

    Innovation!
  49. MJ Patchouli from Regina, Canada writes: We do reuse our plastic grocery bags but they're made so cheaply these days, they don't last for more than a haul or two. I've started buying up all the shopping bags (fabric, heavy duty plastics) at Value Village and we just keep them in the backseat of the car for whenever we need them. They're nice (although living in SK, they can crack right open in winter).

    I also hate all the plastic and styrofoam wrapped around our meat -- what a waste. We are buying from butchers instead of grocers lately -- more comfortable with the safety and quality of the meat, and it's just wrapped in brown paper like when I was a kid.
  50. Farenheit 451 from Vancouver, Canada writes: When I came out of Blockbuster on the weekend there was a man sitting outside in his truck with the motor running, presumably waiting for his wife. He had two kids in the back of the truck and was smoking a cigarette.

    There was a lot of resistance at first when people were asked to stop smoking for the benefit of others. I don't think it will be long before idling the car and using plastic bags will be on the same list. I'm all for the rights of the individual, but sometimes you have to concede your right as an individual in order to benefit the group.
  51. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: All the plastic that people like Anais are bending over backwards not to use increases the amount of hydrocarbons feedstock that is burned for energy uses. This releases more GHGs.
  52. GM Blogger from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Johnn Baraka seems to miss Bruce Reid's point entirely - we will never be able to ban everything offensive to everyone all the time. But we will be able to educate and get people to willingly change their behaviour. Johnn I'll be happy to ban something you like, if you'd care to let me know what it is. We live in a society where everything is someone else's fault, as Bruce's comment seems to pick up on. Years ago there was no green movement, there was a 'pick up your trash' movement. A lot of the problems with plastic bags (the ghg emmissions are almost negligent on a global scale) are due to people not being responsible, and not considering others - hence plastic everywhere. I won't even throw a gum wrapper out on the street. See the difference? The cups, bags and crap out there - I don't produce it. I'm all for better products - but those are offered by industries. How did plastic bags beat out paper anyways? Heavy marketing and lobbying just like everything else in business. I resisted plastic bottles, bags, etc. etc. but corporations and consumers forced them on me. Now everyone is acting like everyone else gave the petroleum and retail industries the green light and if we'd just act more responsible. Please. We're all in this together so name calling and finger-pointing doesn't help. But neither does ban, ban, ban because people aren't respsonsible. Let's give the gov't more power and taxes, after all they never screw it up. I'd rather have someone with some intelligence like Bruce as my neighbor than Johnn's my way or the highway - superior attititude.
  53. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: MJ Patchouli 's paper around the meat takes more energy to make than the polystyrene packaging.
  54. n a from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey, Bill Wilson, China is not making crap for me. I make it a point to boycot all of their products and would say I am down by almost 90%.
  55. Luke P from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'll speak for the majority of Canadians: I'll do whatever is most convenient. Period.

    BTW, with something as ubiquitous as the plastic bag, there ARE going to be some unintended consequences of a ban. I don't know what those consequences are, but they'll happen.
  56. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: If everyone is really interested in saving energy/hydrocarbons use, consider the following:

    1. Buy some PLASTIC foam insulation and cover any exposed hot water pipes.
    2. Buy and install some extra polystyrene (PLASTIC) foam insulation for your walls.
  57. Sleepy Head from Canada writes: I have always used re-usable bags. My first was a very durable, thick linen enviro-tote. I've had it for 14 years. It is strong and roomy--much better quality than the ones you get from the stores for cheap these days. It also cost about 15 bucks, but like I said--it's lasted this long and it will last at least another 14 years. Since then, I've had a few from the stores, such as grocery stores and even Canadian Tire. The sad thing is that these are all relatively poor quality (Big Carrot is not too bad though) because they have to be made available to customers for cheap--else, who'd buy them? If you drive, keep reusable bags in the trunk at all times. If you bike, stash them in the basket or wherever you can put them. I've seen many people (mostly people in their 20s/30s) go to the grocery store with backpacks, and then load up the backpacks with the stuff they buy. Like people said before me, it's not hard. Sure, if you tend to walk everywhere, it's a tad inconvenient (esp. if you are male and/or do not carry purses, etc.), but even my sister, who tends to use these itty-bitty handbags, manages to cram some plastic bags in them for re-use. At the same time, plastic bags are useful for some things, so I have some at home--we use it for things like kitty poop, and other really messy stuff. If you drive and find that bags are too unwieldy or too flimsy, baskets from Knob Hill Farm and Price Club work well too.
  58. Dan Ficken from St. John's, Canada writes: I think my original message from this morning was lost in all the myriad other comments that have been pouring in on this topic, so I will post again:

    I think some of us are missing the main point of the article. There is a major problem (capital M Major, capital P Problem) with the issue of bag pollution, and there are simple solutions.

    Maybe the ban concept was a little premature, probably we need to have some sort of province by province or nation-wide assessment to see if a ban is viable, but in the meantime, cloth bags are easy to get, cheap, and last a lifetime. Also they are weightless and convenient. They can be used for many things.

    I'm sure paying out a few dollars every few months for a bag of biodegradable bags to line the garbage with is not really a huge cost in the daily run of our lives, it would fall under the unavoidable low costs of our necessary household items such as toothpaste. Toothpaste, for example costs a couple of bucks, if that, and we hardly ever have to buy it because so much comes in a tube. A pack of 24 garbage liners would cost a few bucks and last a few months surely. Not much extra cost by the end of the year; ten, twenty dollars a year? That's like a quarter tank of gas per year or less. It would significantly cut down our serious plastic issues if we could just bring our groceries and merchandise home in cloth bags. Easy.

    Let's stop being stubborn here. Grasp the real problem and come to terms with how simple the solutions are
  59. Doug - from Calgary, Canada writes: What this is trying to do is stop people from being bad. In itself not a bad thing but how many things have to be done to stop people from being bad. If a bag ends up in the wrong place its because someone dropped it. If we out lawed lazy people there wouldn't be a problem.

    Our family never gets bags as we have to pay for them. We use bins and get some points for using bins. We do have 3 dogs and use recycled bags for the poop. Thank you for bringing your used bags to the depot.
  60. Dan Ficken from St. John's, Canada writes: I should also mention from "Sleepy Head's" article, I also use the exact same above-mentioned Enviro-Tote. I've been using it for four years and the person I got it from had been using it for years before me. It is actually one of the more useful items I own, I use it for many purposes all the time, and still going strong. In fact it's on my work desk right now, just waiting to be used. The solutions are simple
  61. Alex MacLean from Toronto, Canada writes: Ignore the whining and especially those who think that their friggin' convenience is the top concern we all face. It ain't.

    Ban the damned things, and let's get this done. The complainers and deniers don't deserve one more second of our time.
  62. Dan Ficken from St. John's, Canada writes: For those who say that bag pollution occurs because we are lazy and drop them, this is true to a point, but if you have ever walked near a landfill and noticed all the bags all over the place (outside the landfill), much of the pollution also comes from bags that get thrown out, and escape when garbage bags that contain them are burst open from being plowed into the fill. The issue is that there are too many bags and sooner or later they will end up blowing in the wind. People that reuse them will eventually throw them in the garbage when they break. Ultimately bags will end up in the environment, this is why I am pushing for the re-usable cloth bags so we can seriously reduce the numbers of plastic bags from entering the environment. They are a major source of pollution, and there's no need to be so dependant on them
  63. A. K. from ex-pat, United States writes: I always use my grocery store plastic bags as garbage bags for kitchen refuse. Now, will I just have to buy my PLASTIC garbage bags? Will this really lower the amount of plastic bags going to the landfill? No. Solution: Make a better plastic bag. And if you're worried about plastic bags, then what about all those plastic bottles and containers which are made of a much thicker plastic. I live in an apartment complex which does NOT recycle. I can hardly imagine the number of plastic containers I have thrown away over the years. Yikes! And now with the latest news of the dangers of certain plastics used in baby feeding bottles and other containers, we can all expect a large influx of plastic being thrown out, hopefully into the recycling bin. Seems like most man made synthetic creations eventually come back and bite us in the butt.
  64. Socrates speaks from Canada writes: First they let manufacturers manufacture such things, then they let it distribute it and then they ask the end users to stop using it .... Wow what a way to prevent plastic bag use......
  65. MJ Patchouli from Regina, Canada writes: Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: MJ Patchouli 's paper around the meat takes more energy to make than the polystyrene packaging.

    Oh Joshua, is that true? But maybe the paper will be easier to rid from the planet than the styrofoam?

    How to get a handle on this? What is the best alternative?
  66. Janice Cooper from West Kootenays, British Columbia, Canada writes: Where I live, we have no garbage pick-up, and have to pay a per-bag fee to take stuff to the transfer station, so we were already quite routinized into recycling paper, glass, tins, etc, which is free, both for the warm-fuzzy taking-care-of-the-environment feeling as well as saving money. When I lived in the city I had a composter, and loved having all that great humous to grow my tomatoes in--not to mention the year we had a huge pumpkin vine growing out of the box which produced 3 pumpkins, one for each of my kids--greatest recycling lesson ever!! But I have avoided it here due to bears, dogs (including my own 2) running free, and so on. But I finally acquired a composter in the fall and have been pleased to reduce our landfill contributions significantly, with no bear or other animal problems, and look forward to better tomatoes this summer. But I have to say, weaning our household off the plastic shopping bags has given me the greatest pleasure of all my modest "green" efforts. There is just something really satisfying about reusing those bags. The ones I get from Extra Foods (part of Loblaws, I think) are made from recycled plastic pop bottles, are strong and roomy, and hold lots. Furthermore I enjoy packing my own stuff the way I like it to be packed. The best "value-added" is that, if I pay with my Presidents Choice Master Card, they give me 500 free points per bag I brought in. I go home, go on-line, make a payment to my master card, then use the points to get FREE groceries. Nice.
  67. Byron Heppner from Winnipeg, Canada writes: What gives these fundamentalist enviro-fanatics the right to impose their morality on the rest of us? If you want to believe in some nebulous "global warming save the whales hug a tree" whacked out religion, be my guest--just don't try foisting it on me!! I think we should just outlaw all religious / policital / social ideologies because they just lead to wars.

    /sarcasm

    Ooops, my mistake. Derogatory comments like this are only allowed on boards discussing religious topics. Environmentalism is the unquestionable moral good, and must be imposed on everyone.....
  68. George Hall from Canada writes: Plastic bags seemed like a good idea at the time but all things change and I don't think it is a big deal to get rid of them.
    The amount of garbage we presently produce is unecessary.
    All products we use should be biodegradable ..it only makes sense.
    I am sure someone can invent a big that will biodegrade in a year.
  69. Joshua Albert from Toronto, Canada writes: MJ Patchouli - yes, I've and heard that consistently (even on the CBC) Think of all teh mechanical effort needed to make and distribubte paper.

    Paper is only easier to get rid of because you see the recycling programs. In TO, I put the butchers paper in the wet garbage (it qualifies as "soiled paper" - so it's allowed.) However, I'm not sure how well this actually composts.

    I once saw a demonstration of a small machine (2 ft cubed max) that made a small screwdriver handle from a used polystyrene cup - right before my very eyes.
  70. Dave Jansen - Obama for PM from Canada writes: Byron Heppner - What a sad angry loner you come off as...

    The difference between religion and the environment is that environmental issues affect everyone equally (toxic waste, increased levels of cancer, finite resources), whether you believe in them or not!
  71. Dave Jansen - Obama for PM from Canada writes: Farenheit 451 from Vancouver, Canada writes: When I came out of Blockbuster on the weekend there was a man sitting outside in his truck with the motor running, presumably waiting for his wife. He had two kids in the back of the truck and was smoking a cigarette.

    Let me guess, did he have a 'support our troops' bumper sticker? Sounds like a typical conservative - it's all about them come hell or high water. It's their RIGHT to pollute, it's their RIGHT to blow smoke in their kids faces, it's their RIGHT to ignore science...

    Remember, conservatives in general have a lower level of education than supporters of other political parties - that's a fact.
  72. Nickstar One from Canada writes: Just more of the BAN-wagon mentality unleashed with nodding approval by the UN and its agencies. Ironic that something that grew out of the terrible suffering and ashes of WWII, is now promoting, essentially, "zero tolerance" worldwide. Social-engineering liberal fools are swallowing this idiocy hook, line, and sinker. It is clear that the UN sponsoring agencies learned absolutely nothing from the sacrifices made in two World Wars. Can WWIII be very far away if this ignorant stupidity continues?
  73. Stefan Caunter from Hamilton, Canada writes: The discussion is focusing on personal liberty and is typically polarized. Irrelevant. Plastic bags are a tiny part of an enormous and massive industry. Packaging. You might as well squabble over wasting bullets in a war zone. Take a look around any Galen Weston store. Every day is like xmas. Everything is packaged up beautifully in photographic quality card stock high colour prints. Box of frozen meat. Breakfast cereal. This kind of ubiquitous overkill is essentially unchallengeable, like the advertising that supports it. Without getting deeply into why (they are huge advertisers in this "newspaper" and its related properties just as an aside) retailers and manufacturers get a free ride on this issue, while end users feel angry and complain about their peers. If there is a supply of something, it will get used. Banning it when there is supply would be like the current police state prohibitions in effect. We know how effective those are. There don't need to be plastic bags. There doesn't need to be this urge to supply ordinary, cheap things in lavish ornamental boxes. But things are done this way. People love getting things in boxes. It's almost silly to observe. Xmas morning. Every day of your life. Why? Guess it works. The thing on which to concentrate, in any serious and thoughtful effort to reduce amounts of garbage, is the primary producer. Unfortunately that means it won't happen very often. Here is a last example. It was illegal to distribute pop in non-returnable containers in the 1970s. Retailers and manufacturers were responsible for the containers. This useful law was changed thanks to the efforts of those manufacturers. They didn't want to deal with it. They used "exploding glass pop bottles", a completely absurd and manufactured situation played up massively in the media, to get laws passed allowing them to sell pop in throwaway plastic. Beware, beware, of this kind of debate where you don't really see what the outcome will really become.
  74. wysi wig from Calgary, Canada writes: Yup - no problem. We'll get ready to live without those awful plastic bags that we ensure are all recycled for use for collection of garbage and other waste in our household (instead of allowing them to "escape" and pollute the natural environment where they apparently create a bunch of problems)... And then, we'll go out and have to buy some nice new plastic bags to put the same garbage and waste into. Makes sense to me!? Where the hell do all the environmentalists put all of their garbage? Oops, I forgot - they create any.
  75. Tim Rutkevich from Canada writes: Personally I use shopping bags to pick up after my dogs. I guess I should leave it on sidewalks and neighbors front lawns. It is natural, in France no one picks up after their dogs.
  76. Doug - from Somewhere, Canada writes: Good point on dumps and bag blowing around But if they have the proper fences the bags won't get out. All of the bags we see were dropped by somebody not out of a garbage truck. We have recycling of those bags in Calgary though no other plastics. we stock up on dog poop bags when we drop off the recycle.

    =
    Isn't this a problem because its visual. The blow around , get caught on trees etc. Packaging is probably a bigger problem. You can get around bags if you want to by saying no thank you or reusing or in some areas recyling. Packaging you don't have a choice.
  77. can I vote again from around-Kingston, Canada writes: [Farenheit 451 from Vancouver]hmmm.

    evil dooers you say?
  78. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: n a from Toronto, Canada writes: "So instead of nickle and diming us about plastic bag use, how about talking to the idiots with four cars in their driveways or heated backyard pools? And China as an example of environmentalism is laughable as they are one of the biggest industrial polluters in the world."

    I'm with you. Every time I see something evaluating one's environmental impact, I find that I've long ago done most of the things to reduce my impact. Unfortunately, its the 30% of the population who create 90% of the problem who are never impacted by any of this. We need policies that hit them hard but unfortunately, the politicians know they are well organized and vote as a block to continue their abuses.

    As well, things such as buying an enormous house are rewarded by the tax free status of their gains, further exaserbating the problem. We need effective tax policy to deal with these major abuses in order to have any real impact, not these minor pigeon $hit issues.

    Finally, re: another recent article. Could you imagine China constructing these massive container ports if roles were reversed and we wanted to export massive amounts of junk to them? No, it would rapidly be identified as an enironmental issue.
  79. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: Paying for my one person household small trash can to recycle small white grocery bags looks like it will backfire.
    I use credit card and points card so they've got me dead to rights.
    Many households might have been caught just under using full size garbage bags.
    What's the solution? Take in strangers? Get taken in?
    I dunno.
  80. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: That old tapioca from summer camp nightmares 40 years ago might come back and save us all in the form of fully-biodegradable plastic bags, check it out:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2003/feb/12/uknews.waste
  81. Jen G from Canada writes: I think it's a great idea to stop the plastic bag in its tracks. Civilization survived for thousands of years without it, so why can't we now? I personally feel that it is selfishness and greed. We all want stuff, and we want it to be easy to get and get rid of, and the plastic bag has contributed to that. I say suck it up, if you buy that much crap maybe you should evaluate your spending habits.

    I don't use designer cloth bags, a back pack and old cloth bag do the trick. They may not be pretty but they suffice. I'm currently working on getting rid of my garbage bags. It's the many little actions of the many little people that amounts to big change.

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