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Dion says no election over budget

KEVIN CARMICHAEL AND DARREN YOURK

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 5:00 AM EDT 27/02/08

Conservatives present stingy budget as the economy slows ...Read the full article

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  1. Comments are Closed from Toronto, Canada writes: Let the auto industry raise it's own R&D funding. Take it out of the US/Canada price differential.
  2. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: Pretty good on the whole imo. I like the savings account plan to promote more saving and investing as well as the large commitment to debt reduction. The savings from reduced debt servicing can be reinvested in the future.
  3. Martin Gratton from Canada writes: This is an insult to Canadians! Using $10B to pay down the debt when most economists agree that the debt as a function of GDP is the lowest it's been in decades, is shear lunacy, especially when we consider the other options: investments in manufacturing, the environment, education and technology... How about a stimulus package? Corporate tax cuts are not stimulus when you are not making profits. They only help companies that don't need the help!

    I hope Dion will do the right thing this time and pull the rip cord on this government.
  4. J S from Edmonton, Canada writes: Maybe they could, I dunno, UNDO that stupid GST cut. Practically every respected economist that had an opinion said that personal income tax cuts would have been a better way to go. Now with the GST cut -- to buy votes, make no mistake -- the government has absolutely no room to manoeuver.

    This budget isn't bad, but previous bad decisions sort of forced his hand.
  5. R M from Canada writes: I like it. Pay down that debt!
  6. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: J S ...I agree the GST was maybe not the best area to target for tax cuts, but it is what they campaigned on, and were elected on.
  7. William Ross from Victoria BC, Canada writes: I am very happy that the Conservatives have bought in another good budget. We are fortunate indeed to have such sound financial footings in Canada as we have the last few years as with the very timely fall tax breaks that are kicking in as we speak and now the Tax Free Savings Account which is an outstanding idea and one that I personally will be looking at for next year. Good News all around way to go Mr. Harper and Mr. Flaherty. What I do find very amusing is the Liberal language complaining about Conservative spending. Since when is giving tax money back to Canadians ' Spending ' only a Liberal mindset could twist language like that! I have 10 years to go to retirement and had to cash out my RRSP's 10 years ago so this is very good news and perfect timing as I have been furiously and agressively topping up my RRSP! Why is it that Liberals\NDP\BQ seem to think that the solution for any given problem is a government program? When, let's be honest ... more often than not the government program ends up being more of a problem!
  8. Darcy Meyer from Canada writes: Oh ....and no election this spring, as I've been saying all along.
  9. Blissed Old Man from white Rock, Canada writes: Paying down debt and encouraging savings in a time that is volatile at best and may be reccessionary.

    Sounds like a plan for individuals, households and government.
  10. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: J S, income tax cuts are preferable, but the short term economic effect woudln't be any different. In the long term, lower income taxes would provide more incentive to work, save and invest. But a two point income tax cut (which would result in roughly the same amount of forgone revenue as a two point GST cut) would not have made a huge difference, even long term. Besides, no other party is promising to cut income taxes at all. The US cut income taxes much more steeply than we could have if we reversed the GST cuts, yet they're in a serious economic slowdown right now. And it's true that corporate tax cuts help profitable companies, why is that a bad thing? You want to subsidize the weakest companies and prop them up? I'd rather cut taxes and see the strongest companies prosper and grow while the weakest ones fail. Why should the government misallocate resources toward the weakest firms?
  11. James Tod from VancouverAbbotsford, Canada writes: I want to read more on the budget before commenting.
  12. Blissed Old Man from white Rock, Canada writes: Budget will pass.

    Afghanistan bill will pass.

    No election this spring or summer.

    Close down the conversation.

    Enjoy the sun.
  13. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: $500-million for investment in public transit? This is about one-fiftieth of what is needed.

    'Tory times are tought times' indeed.
  14. pik scott from Canada writes: I am getting tired of jack laytons working families speech. If the corporations were to leave canada for greener pastures,how will the newly unworking families going to survive.
  15. Yvonne Wackernagel from Woodville, Canada writes: 'Starting in 2009, Canadians 18 and older will be allowed to invest up to $5,000 in a tax-sheltered TFSA. They won't pay taxes on any investment gains, and they can withdraw the money without penalty at any time they want.'

    This is the best part of the budget. There are a lot of people who are getting peanuts on their investment and have to pay heavy tax on the peanuts. I do not know how this is going to work because $5000 is not much, really; I do think they should have made that more like $25,000 to allow students to have a safeguard for postgraduate education, maybe money from grandparents. Here again, like all Conservative policies, it was not well thought out.
  16. Ruth Walker from Edmonton, Canada writes: Just before an election, the Harperites rediscover fiscal conservatism.

    If only we weren't about to blow a ton of dough on the new prison system implied by Bill C-26. What a waste!
  17. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: Good to see at least some balance towards savings with the new savings account proposal. The last two years we've seen budgets provide too much incentive to consume and spend, and little incentive to save and invest. $5K investment being allowed to growing tax free will help the young and the middle-class make better decisions.
  18. Brian L from Canada writes: I have not read the budget in detail but, contrary to I'm sure the majority of posters on this board, I am surprised and disappointed that the government has not moved much more aggressively with corporate tax incentives, especially aggressive and permanent depreciation rates on capital investment in manufacturing.

    I say this as an Albertan rather than a central Canadian. I think the rapid rise in our dollar and the potential for further appreciation demand aggressive tax incentives for business especially our manufacturing sector in central Canada. We need all parts of our economy and country to perform well, not just our resource sector.

    Tax and spend subsidies for selected winners and losers (think the Bombardier handouts of the past 20 years) never work. Business friendly taxes and regulatory frameworks both federal and provincial are the proven approach to attracting investment and jobs.

    Good luck to my fellow countrymen and women in Ontario. I hope your provincial leaders can also find wisdom in this course of action.
  19. M R from Calgary, Canada writes: Where are the spending rationalizations? In hard times we should be finding waste in government and reducing spending so we can reduce taxes to free up wealth. I'm not against using the $10B surplus for debt repayment but I'd rather we shave some spending and cut taxes too.
  20. George S from Toronto, Canada writes: Overall seems like a sound wide ranging budget, but, their is one area that I think Flaherty should have directed more funds. He is only marking $500 M for public transit. Canada needs billions injected into its public transit infrastructure in all large urban areas across Canada. We have the money now so we should have invested it in Public Transit so that Canada can continue to work without killing the environment and our personal bank savings. The prices they pay for fuel in Europe is only a precursor to what we will see. The price will continue to rise all over as the stocks get depleted.

    Please, Mr. Dion, oppose this one aspect of the budget that is only directing a mere $500M for public transit ACROSS Canada. We need some serious long-term sustained funding for public transit for all urban areas. This type of investment will soften Canada's landing in a post-oil society.
  21. T O from Canada writes: Gotta love the headline and the spin...

    The liberals are a joke...If you do not like the govt BRING IT DOWN....DO YOUR JOB!!!

    This was a sensible and more importantly a responsible budget. People seem to forget the economic predicament we find ourselves in with the US downturn accelerating.

    Pay down the debt, support saving incentives for taxpayers and increasing the CCA are great ideas.

    If anyone should be mad at anything, it should liberal supporters towards their spineless leader and party who rant and rave and then turn tail when push comes to shove. I'm embarrassed for the liberal supporters in this country....
  22. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: Hey jS...undo the GST cut...how bout no GST at all!
  23. J J from Canada writes: Will there ever be a budget that Layton can support? Maybe we should go and examine the complete socialist government of Cuba. I think Jack wants us all to live in huts (at least we'll have health care), but no one will have a job as the companies will be out of business. But we'll have health care, right?

    Jack isn't even part of the 'working families' group from what I see. He's just there to disagree with every position ever taken by any government.

    He is such a loser!
  24. John McMortimer-Boyles from An Undisclosed Underground Location Safe From Nuclear Attack, Canada writes: Of the goodies I've seen in the budget, most of them are peanuts.

    $250 million for auto R&D over five years? That's $50 per year, and given the size of the Canadian auto industry, it isn't going to go very far.

    $5,000 tax free savings account. As one of the Globe writers points out, if you aren't taking advantage of all your RRSP room, chances are you aren't going to take advantage of the tax free savings account either.

    Debt reduction is nice because any money not spent paying interest on the debt is money available for programs, services and (gasp!) tax cuts. But a $10B reduction in overall debt, while it looks impressive by itself, is pretty small when you consider our country has $450B in debt outstanding. That means at the end of the next fiscal there will still be $440B left to pay off.

    Oh well. A few choice goodies for some, and as far as I can tell, not a whole lot to annoy someone else either.

    So we get another six to eight weeks of Conservative government until someone starts raising spectres of non-confidence votes again.
  25. Typical Toronto Voter from I know what to think because the Globe tells me!, Canada writes: As a Toronto Liberal I'm upset. Not sure what to be upset about but I know there has to be something because this is a Conservative Government budget. I know there has to be some negative way of looking at this and, by George, when the G&M has a chance to present it, then I'm really gonna be upset!
  26. Greg Van Zandt from Canada writes: J S from Edmonton, Canada writes: Maybe they could, I dunno, UNDO that stupid GST cut. Practically every respected economist that had an opinion said that personal income tax cuts would have been a better way to go. Now with the GST cut -- to buy votes, make no mistake -- the government has absolutely no room to manoeuver.

    This budget isn't bad, but previous bad decisions sort of forced his hand.

    Most respected economists...blah blah....blah.

    What party was offering a personal income tax cut? NONE

    The only party cutting taxes is the conservatives. The alternative was spending it on national daycare, kyoto, Kelowna, poverty, infrastructure, etc....
  27. S M from Canada writes: The tax free savings plan doesn't sound stingy to me..poor G&M just can t stand it.

    A responsible budget with some new creative aspects, and a mandatory requirement that they support a gutless loser like Dion, and paint anything Conservative as negatively as possible

    Poor babies..maybe someday you'll get professional journalism jobs.
  28. Blissed Old Man from white Rock, Canada writes: George S. - $500M for public transportation and $2B for infrastructure indicates Premier Campbell's $14B infrastructure program is in jeapardy because it was announced as being dependent upon federal funding .... unless B.C. ups the carbon tax, a lot.
  29. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Yvonne, it's $5000 per year I believe. That's a substantial amount, and more than most middle class people will put in anyway.
  30. Ryan Godfrey from TorontoEdinburgh, Canada writes: The conservatives have learned absolutely nothing from what to do with a slumping economy.

    John Maynard Keynes, probably the most important economist of the early 20th century stated that when the economy is slumping, you spend, when it is expanding, you save.

    So basically, they are doing the opposite of what has proven itself time and time again to be the correct formula!
  31. dick brown from missy, Canada writes: majority!!!!!!!
  32. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: The idea of a tax free savings account sounds fine until you realize people don't have enough to max out their RRSP s now.

    Why the limit of 5000 a year. how much does he think we can earn on that?

    He seems to be out of touch with the reality of middle and lower class Canadian life.

    Living from pay day to pay day. Little if anything to save.

    The average Canadain has no capital gains to shelter Mr. Flaherty.
    If we want to shelter some savings we will put it into our RRSP and get the tax back.
  33. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Good plan to put a big chunk down on the debt. It is the responsible thing to do. I don't want our kids to pay for the excesses of their parents generation.
    No election on the horizon now. Wow, what are people going to complain about on these boards.
    Must go a shovel the driveway. The white stuff keeps falling from the sky. When will it ever end - or will it? Bring on the lazy, hazy days of summer.
  34. Jim Z from Canada writes: The 5000 year tax savings plan is partially an attempt to offset the
    income trust tax fiascal. If the Conservatives think that this is going to satisfy the people who lost 35 billion in savings and get them to vote for them they had better give their heads a shake. 2.5 million of us are just waiting for the next election and we will not forget the bald face lie.
  35. S N from Toronto, Canada writes: The singlemost laudable initiative:'Starting in 2009, Canadians 18 and older will be allowed to invest up to $5,000 in a tax-sheltered TFSA. They won't pay taxes on any investment gains, and they can withdraw the money without penalty at any time they want. ' I only wish they increased the upper limit to at least 10-15,000. I have yet to contribute to RRSP this year and all beacuse the money is locked in forever, and at a penalty if you decide to withdraw from it. And so TFSA should be the answer to many a prayer!!
  36. Arnold Guetta from Ottawa, Canada writes: Read James Bagnall, excellent in Ottawa Citizen, 2007 December 15, on the forthcoming (April 3) sentencing of Paul Champagne after he stole $140 millions from his employer Dept. of National Defence, and stashed $5.2 millions with a prominent Ottawa law firm. An explanation, even suggestion of refund to the Crown will take interested readers to the recent decades of the same law firm. Hence to Canadian Judicial Council, Metcalfe Street, Ottawa. file 05-0626 and hence you will be conducted to five pages (ack Conseil du Magistrature due Quebec and Ottawa mathematicians) to recover a further $6.8 billions. This deserves its pace in any budget, together with appropriate legislative, executive and judicial reforms, not to mention honest journalism. Arnold Guetta, mathematician
  37. Scottish Gary from Toronto, Canada writes: To be very clear, paying down the debt is a priority. This is money that was spent in the 1970's which we didn't have. To a previous comment, it doesn't matter that it is the lowest in 25 years. As a result of demographics the workforce is shrinking we results in 2 conclucions:
    1) less people will be responsible for paying off the debt - so in essence on a personal basis it will go up
    2) with a smaller workforce GDP will in all likelihood decrease to a lower run rate causing the debt/gdp to go up!!

    We currently pay more interest on the debt than gdp than we collect in GST.

    IMO anyone who is above 50 should not have a say on this issue - you allowed the national debt to ramp up and you expect me to pay it off? At some point we have to pay the piper!!

    Cheers
  38. god bless canada from Canada writes: if we were all more like this goverment we would not be in as bad shape as the ndp say we are. we are very big spenders in canada on things we do not need. how many tv do we need how many cell phones we keep on buying junk and wonder why we are in debt . it nice to see a goverment paying down our debt remember its not goverment debt its our debt. like alberta when we had a large debt we pay interest on that debt once its paid off we can use the savings on other programs. why do you think the canadian economy is not crashing with the us economy its because our goverment did the mini budget at the right time and has kept our economy humming along yes manufacturing is having trouble but the bank of canada can help them by droping interest rates that will bring down our dollar. we can not sell things to the us if they are broke so by dumping billions into manufacturing will not help them you can not sell if people are not buying
  39. JM Work from Canada writes: The GST cut is done and over with.

    Why dont the Lieberals find something new to get excited over!?
  40. B Fulsom from Menlo Park, United States writes: Martin Gratton, I stopped listening to 'most economists' and this newspaper when they tried to tell me I really didn't want a GST cut.
  41. Blissed Old Man from white Rock, Canada writes: The $5000 per year/per person/year tax sheltered savings plan is reasonable.

    That's $10,000/couple/year and I would suggest that is more than enough for a very large percentage of Canadians, especially if people also max. their RRSP. An 8-10% return on some slightly risky investments means $10,800 -$11,000 in one year, tax sheltered, then start adding and compounding to your investment.

    This plan allows a tax sheltered supplementary account for pre-retirement people, young couples saving for a down payment, family contingency fund, household improvement fund ....

    The message is very important .... compare it to the money for nothing sub-prime and teaser mortgages in the U.S. At a time when the role of debt in a personal financial plan is being questioned, this incentive to save is a departure from decades of spend, spend, spend.
  42. Randal Oulton from Canada writes: The Toronto Star had this little gem to add: 'But some high-income earners may use the accounts to supplement registered retirement savings plans, in order to come closer to the higher percentage of income that government employees are able to put into their pension plans.'

    Gee, we have two tier pensions as well.

    >> Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: $500-million for investment in public transit? This is about one-fiftieth of what is needed.

    Feel free to donate. You know you can donate to the Receiver General; you're not restricted to just what you're required to pay in taxes.
  43. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: There is now ONE major party in Canada: the Tory Party.

    Mr. Harper is the head of the Conservative Wing of the Party, and Mr. Dion is the head of the Liberal Wing of the Party.
  44. Lyn Alg from Canada writes: Why would Dion not accept the budget. If he forced an election, it would be the end of him as the leader of the Liberal Party of Canada The Conservatives would win a majority if an election were held today and the Liberal Party would force him to resign, Either way, he will be forced out within the next 12 months and the Liberals will probably elect Ignatieff as their new leader.
  45. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: S N from Toronto
    There is no penalty for withdrawing money from an RRSP. All you have to do is pay the income tax on it.

    In reality the new plan is no different.

    One refunds the income tax up front and makes you pay on withdrawal, so in fact you have more to deposit into the RRSP.

    The new one lets you depost after tax dollars into the account , less to deposit, and doesn't make you pay when you withdraw.

    If a person makes good investments and gains 8 to 10 percent the tax saving will be on this not the original deposit. Over 10 years the tax saved will be you tax on about 5000 dollars a year if the maximun is deposited.

    Are we supposed to get all excited over this?
  46. Quinn Barreth from Canada writes: Thank you Mr. Dion for giving us the first majority government in a long time. It will be nice to see them continue to accomplish all their priorities as we watch your party sit or leave the building.
  47. Norman Petit from Calgary, Canada writes: Mr. Justice - So true. Just as the Liberals moved into the political / economic centre when Mulroney's Tories vanished, Prime Minister Harper's Conservatives are moving into the centre previously occupied by the Chretien's and Martin's Liberals.
  48. Blissed Old Man from white Rock, Canada writes: Thank you Progressive Liberal Party.
  49. Mike W from Calgary, Canada writes: I would of liked to have seen a capital gains break of some sort, but overall not too bad. We need to focus on debt repayment now before the boomers start leaving the workforce.

    I need clarity on this $5K deposit item. Is the investment income tax deferred or waived completely? What exactly does 'without penalty mean'? If they are waiving the tax on investment income completely then I think this a great idea. Somebody said that it should be as high as $25K...well, for the investor that would be great...but seriously think that through...being able to accumulate that much capital each year without paying tax on the earnings wouldn't help the government coffers that much.
  50. Archie Wellford from Canada writes: For krysake Stephane, put these guys outa their misery! Or izzat our misery?
  51. J Kooman from Canada writes:
    As his personal reputation rock-bottomed, there is no issue avail that Mr Dion will preceive as the trigger for an election.

    Sorry, Mr Dion. You have a nice guy look, but what you did in the last year did not hold any ground on anything you claim to believe in.
  52. Fuzzy Bare from Ontario (Not Toronto), Canada writes: Martin Gratton... Your comment is an insult to the intelligence of Canadians. Name just one economist who disagrees with paying down the national debt..... $10 Billion paid on the national debt saves $500 Million per year in interest payments, more money available for government services or other worthy programs...... If you were knowledgable inkling about economics, you would now that corporation savings in taxes would result in a dividend increase to shareowners and more money available for reinvestment or expansion. This is where decreased corporate tax decreases boosts the economy and increases jobs. Wouldn't that be considered a stimulation of the economy? You might want to take Economics 101 before you answer.
  53. Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: Debt reduction remains a priority despite economic uncertainty: $10.2-billion in 2007-08, $2.3-billion in 2008-09, and $1.3-billion in 2009-10. Surpluses are forecast to grow in 2010-2011, with $3-billion targeted for debt the following three years. Debt-to-GDP ratio is forecast to drop to 25% by 2011-12.

    .... because of the GST cut they are erroding our ability to pay down the debt. We are only going to pay down 2.3 billion next year....so our debt will be paid off in 200 years????

    I would not be suprised if we had a defict next year because of the Flaherty & Harper tax cut program/military spending.

    40% of the taxes we pays goes towards interest payments on our debt!
  54. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: What's with that? According to the liberals, the Government couldn't do anything right, now was your chance to show in real terms how good you really are. Open the envelopes, you aren't low on money and give us the govenrment we deserve. Or do we all ready have it?
  55. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: Blissed Old Man
    Boy you are sure easy to buy.

    A tax saving on 800 to 1000 a year. what would that be for you ? For me abot 250 dollars, wow.

    If I was 20 and had lots of disposable income I might be happy If I had no RRSP to contribute to. But the reality is we do and this plan is meant to benefit people who have more money than I do.

    Was there any word about it being restricted to people without governmant pensions, or the other 20 persent of the population with company pensions as the RRSP is?
  56. Jasper the Black Lab from Vancouver, Canada writes: William Ross from Victoria BC, regarding your 4:37 PM post: I don't know what kind of CPC kool-aid they feed you there in Victoria, but federal spending has been spiralling upward over the past several years, and will pass the $200 Billion mark this fiscal year. We are empatically not on a 'sound footing'with Harper and Flaherty in charge.

    The tax-free savings account seems like a good idea for those who have maxed out their RRSP and are not living paycheque-to-paycheque. I wonder who those persons would be???
  57. Vern McPherson from writes: Decidedly liberal ideas.

    COns = LIARS
  58. Anne Peterson from Canada writes:
    I would suggest crown corporation to oversee public private partnerships be called the Karlheinz Schreiber Corporation.
  59. Vern McPherson from writes: Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes:
    40% of the taxes we pays goes towards interest payments on our debt!

    ---------------------------------------------

    What ? 40 % ????

    Are you nuts ??
  60. James MacEwan from Canada writes: A small-c conservative comment:

    I just finished reading Chilton's Wealthy Barber again this week (it is a little dated with respect to some tax policies but the basic advice is still very good). The book espouses a pay yourself first 10% savings concept. The Tax Free Savings Plan makes this doing this for yourself incredible. Thinking like an actuary, if most people follow this advice, then most won't need to rely on government programs (NDP/leftLib) to help them through life. Fewer people needing a safety net means that as a society we can afford to have great government programs that really do make a different for those who need it most.
  61. Building an Ark from Eastern Slopes, Canada writes: M R from Calgary, Canada writes: Where are the spending rationalizations? In hard times we should be finding waste in government and reducing spending so we can reduce taxes to free up wealth. I'm not against using the $10B surplus for debt repayment but I'd rather we shave some spending and cut taxes too.

    Thanks MR - Well reasoned post, when we all feel a pinch in the wallet, we curtail discretionary spending - at least that's how most of us feel with Mortgages, debt etc. Why is this Govt. not knocking down the spending that they have recently ramped up??? Layton would you spend more Hello Jack are you out there???
  62. Quinn Barreth from Canada writes: BTW - how does the government release a budget and Dion's name and picture end up as the headline?
  63. D K from Canada writes: Did Dion hide behind his chair during the vote? He looks relieved. What a lame duck.
  64. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Ooooh, save us from the deficit running Liberals, Flaherty. Wow, if you're going to change your propaganda to a blatant lie, why don't you let someone who didn't personally run Ontario into a multi-billion dollar deficit and lie about it tout the new script?

    I'm glad we have a Liberal budget, but it's maddening to see the Tory clones and trolls on here cowing like it's their own. In academic circles, Harper would be charged with plagiarism. Oh wait, in academic circles, he was.
  65. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: The TFSA is a wonderful deal for Canadians, but especially young Canadians.

    Of course the whining will erupt ' ...but what young people can possibly save up to $5000 per year? blah blah ...'

    I'll tell you who - the motivated young people who will be rich some day, that's who.

    A great, great program.

    As for the rest of the budget, ho-hum.
  66. Typical Toronto Voter from I know what to think because the Globe tells me!, Canada writes: That's more like my G&M, a big picture of Dion over the story of the Conservative budget!
  67. J S from Toronto, Canada writes: $500 million for transit. Toronto needs $1 billion and we're just one city.
  68. Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Quinn Barreth from Canada writes: BTW - how does the government release a budget and Dion's name and picture end up as the headline? ------ Because it was Dion's budget anyway.
  69. Walt Robbins from Canada writes: A big chunk of our national (and Ontario) debt is the direct result of handouts to the nuclear industry and AECL. And now, another 300 million. Sell off that white elephant now; that is, if anyone is dumb enough to buy it!
  70. Bill Thompson from Calgary, Canada writes: Great budget. If Mr. Dion and the LPC had not supported it the Bloc was prepared to do so. They are way down in the polls in PQ.
  71. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: I would love to play poker against Dion. I could bluff him all night long without even looking at my cards.

    What a gormless character.
  72. Pete H from Canada writes: Don Jenkins from Canada writes: Quinn Barreth from Canada writes: BTW - how does the government release a budget and Dion's name and picture end up as the headline? ------ Because it was Dion's budget anyway.
    Thats a pathetic post. You would actually be perceived as insightful if you just said nothing. So Dion thinks his budget is a mile wide and an inch deep? Pathetic
  73. ss dd from vancouver, Canada writes: The enviro-leftist-moonbats must be livid over this latest 'betrayal' of trust from Dion.
    After all, wasn't he supposed to be the knight in the shiny armor called upon to slay the big ugly conservative dragon who strangles poor Canada in its merciless claws for almost two years now ?

    Oh well, I guess there will be no blood this spring. Better for you guys to comfort yourselves with the movie... :-)

    And here's another cheerful thought for all the long faces, in the same good old leftist/liberal tradition:
    'Life sucks... and then you die !'
  74. Rick Drysdale from Canada writes: From a DoF website /http://www.budget.gc.ca/2007/bp/bpc7e.html#debt?

    Vern McPherson

    'The ratio of public debt charges to government revenues has declined in recent years to stand at 15.2 per cent in 2005&8211;06. This ratio is expected to decline further to 13.8 per cent in 2008&8211;09. This means that in 2008&8211;09, the Government will spend roughly 14 cents of each revenue dollar on interest on the federal debt.'

    So in reality if 14 percent of the total revenue is spent on debt charges then I think that the amount of personal taxes that goes to debt charges may be over 30 percent.

    Pretty close Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa
  75. Matt Toma from Vancouver, Canada writes: Brian Van Ezel from Ottawa, Canada writes: 40% of the taxes we pays goes towards interest payments on our debt! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Not even remotely close, sir. You are off by around %300. For the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2007 it was about %13-%14 of federal tax revenue going to federal interest payments. The current debt paydown for this year will reduce that by roughly 1/4 of one percent, give or take. The numbers only sound big when expressed in non relative dollar terms, and assuming the listener is not aware of the scope and size of the national economy. When the national economy is teetering, when the national debt service level is one of the lowest in the OECD, when the national debt level is less than one half of the level the IMF considers dangerous, when money is already relatively cheap even when credit is tightening, using extra large surpluses for debt reduction instead of stimulus (whether through tax reductions or spending) is simply poor public policy driven by ideological adherence to a very specific approach to public policy. Only the most rabid supply siders would respond to the largest financial crisis in the United States since the Great Depression with debt reduction and savings as a priority (and that worked oh so well back then...) - when the impact of the accumulated federal debt on the national economy as a whole is negligible. Simply maintaining the current debt retirement schedule and not adding to it would eliminate the relevance of our national debt - through pay down and GDP growth - without ignoring public infrastructure, the environment, or many of the other more pressing concerns of Canadians.
  76. Robert Loblaw from Canada, Canada writes: Don Jenkins - One senses great disappointment in your posts. Give Dion all the credit you like if it helps you justify your blind allegiance. Fact is Don, that Harper's team has out-manouvered the LPC on every issue, and a lot of dyed in the wool LPC supporters are beginning to realize that Canada actually has a govt. that is doing something, namely governing, which is something that never happened under Chretien or poor poor pitiful Paul.

    I think you would have been happier if this had been a mean and nasty budget - it would have given you the opportunity to decry that bad man bush lap dog hidden agenda steely eyed etc. etc. Harper. It's the govts. job to govern all Canadians and I can't see how this missed.

    Of course I'm sure that there will be several posters telling me how within the next few minutes. Care to join them?
  77. Albin Forone from Toronto, Canada writes: Basically, the Harper Party has lost its gambit to force an election before it is known whether there will be a serious US recession. That's been the game. The Liberals are right to let this go through, and if recession comes, bring the government down over the relief package. I agree with the comment above that the Tories blew their moment by tying their hands with brainless GST cuts for brainless people. I'd be substantially real $ richer today with decent (Liberal proposal 2005) income tax relief than I will with the pittance returns from a $5000 per annum tax free account, not to mention what the ham-handed impulsive panic-stricken mismanagement (can we blame the Tories for their DNA?) of the income trust decision cost me.
  78. Saskatchewan Seal Hunter Club from Canada writes: Way to go Harper. As for Dion, you bet he will not vote it down , because he'd be out of a job when the Conservatives win a majority. And also, why is Dianne's........er I mean Dions picture on this headline?
  79. Peter Wojnar from Hamilton, Canada writes: >>Mr. Justice from Canada writes: There is now ONE major party in Canada: the Tory Party.

    >>Mr. Harper is the head of the Conservative Wing of the Party, and Mr. Dion is the head of the Liberal Wing of the Party.

    I agree 50%. I think it really should go like this:

    There is now ONE major party in Canada: the Liberal Party.

    Mr. Dion is the head of the Liberal Wing of the Party, and Mr. Harper is the head of the slightly less Liberal Wing of the Party.

    As I've always said, there are no true conservatives or libertarians in Canadian government, just socialists, liberals and slightly less liberals.
  80. ss dd from vancouver, Canada writes: Albin Forone from Toronto, Canada writes:
    'Basically, the Harper Party has lost its gambit to force an election before it is known whether there will be a serious US recession. That's been the game.'
    --------------------------------

    And here comes the confirmation I was hoping for. You guys are really pissed off. Not only that, but you react in the only possible way for a true red-lib, through spin... :-)
    You are sooo predictable it's not even funny anymore...

    Anyway, keep hoping for that 'mother of all recessions' which shall supposedly wipe out the entire US economy. Now that you realized there's nothing left in Canada to bring you back in power, that might be your only hope.
    It might be a very long shot but hey, as long as you live with your 'hope' it means you're not living alone... :-)
  81. Lane Myers from Canada writes: Great to see that the government is continuing to pay down the debt. Our grandchildren should not have to pay for our years excessive borrowing.

    It is somewhat amusing to read some of the posts here criticizing the government for borrowing ideas from the Liberals. The Liberals borrowed most for their good ideas from the NDP for years.
  82. M Poland from Calgary, Canada writes: What a great budget. Savings accounts, debt reduction, Layton upset, Dion rolling over again, money for better water on reserves, border security, some capital cost depreciation allowances, some R&D for ailing auto assemblers, no subsidies for cruddy industries, not enough for Quebec [what else is new?], and no new social programs. Love it--bring on the election!
  83. bob london from Canada writes: Vern: Do you remember Diefenbaker? I guess that was before you changed your name from Goebels. 2009 election looks good.
  84. Erica the Red from Canada writes: All the CPC hacks crying in their beer over the picture of Stephane Dion: get over it!
    Dion's photo is there because whether there was an election was up to him. The CONservatives obviously don't want one, or they wouldn't have stolen all those Liberal ideas. The Bloc and the NDP were going to vote against it, so it was up to the Liberals to decide whether we were going to the polls.
    I'm sure if you go over to your party mouthpiece, the National Post, or watch the electonic equivalent, CTV News, you'll get the particular slant you're looking for... and if you would, we could stop reading all your whiiiiinnnniiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiings.....
  85. J S from Edmonton, Canada writes: Keep in mind that the Conservatives campaigned on GST cuts on a MUCH longer timescale than this. While it may SEEM laudable that they cut the tax in advance, it would have been better left in place.

    To those that think that the GST should be eliminated, I disagree. The GST should be raised considerably, while income taxes are slashed. Income taxes punish people for working. Consumption taxes punish people for wasting. People that can build savings and investments are better off in the long run, and have even more money in the end to invest in companies and buy consumer goods. What you stop is people from diving into massive credit debt unnecessarily, which never turns out well in the end.

    Like I said, I didn't find anything bad in this budget (from the surface; haven't read the full thing yet), but it simply shows a massive lack of planning, and a desire to make tax cuts for political purposes rather than pragmatic ones.
  86. Robert Loblaw from Canada, Canada writes: Saskatchewan Seal Hunter Club - As I explained to Don Jenkins earlier Dion's photo accompanies this article because he is wearing a very nice tie with his blue suit.

    Somehow the post only stayed on the board for 3 minutes before it was yanked (can't imagine why - I am impressed with Mr. Dion's sartorial splendor, if nothing else about the man).

    We'll see how long this lasts.
  87. Ron Judd from ex Torontonian, Canada writes:

    The hard hitting by the Liberals has paid off. The budget reflects much of their monetary policy and their hard hitting has led to some sensible compromises on Afghanistan. The N.D.P. are still living in la la land and having as much fun as a psycho during a power outage.
  88. Fuzzy Bare from Ontario (Not Toronto), Canada writes: Vern McPherson.... In the 1990s, the Chretien government was paying about 40% of the total federal spending on debt charges. Since our deficit started expanding in the mid 1970s, the Trudeau debt days, we have paid around $1 Trillion in interest payments on our national debt. With lower interest rates and a slightly reduced level of a debt, we are only paying about $25 Billion a year in interest charges. The Trudeau government ran deficts that averaged 40 to 50 Billion a year. The Mulroney government paid interest costs in the neighbourhood of $30 Billion per year on the debt left by Trudeau. With interest rates of 18%, debt doubles in THREE Years. Without the Mulroney GST and Free Trade, Canada would be in dire financial straits, a great legacy for future generations.
  89. Q Chastic from Canada writes: The hell with handouts to the auto industry. If you can't make money, then you shouldn't be in business. End of story.
  90. Norman Petit from Calgary, Canada writes: Robert Loblaw - One senses great sarcasm in your posts, which is typical of one whose favorite political party spent thirteen years learning how to create a populist budget from masters of the dark science and finally has a hand on the wheel of our economy.

    I know that it's some people's idea of fun to conceive the governing of a great country like ours as a gigantic, immature game of chicken played out by a bully and a party in waiting. Prime Minister 'out-manouveres' an entire political party! He's a one-man Liberal wrecking crew!

    The wheel turns, power mongers do what they can to hold on to power, and lust after it once it's wrested from their grasp. If the roles had been reversed, you would have applauded Stephen Harper as a master strategist waiting for the perfect time to bring the government down. Instead, Stephane Dion is a weak coward, hiding behind his chair in fear of your great, blue God. Grow up.
  91. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Trinkets & Trash ~ another wasted opportunity

    I hope Jim didn't pay retail for the shoes because the dance wasn't worth IT.

    Another failure for the Minister of Failure Tiny Jim

    .
  92. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Matt Toma:-- Good post. Interestingly enough, Mr. Dion said the same thing a week or so ago, and his reasoning was commented upon favourably by (shock and awe) the National Post. Let us say that only 14% of one's income is paid on one's mortgage, which is at an advantageously low interest rate (and rates are dropping, not climbing). Suddenly, one becomes aware that the roof is on its last shingles and the plumbing is becoming problematic. Does one pay extra money against the mortgage principle, or does one make the improvements? Or both?
  93. Peter Wojnar from Hamilton, Canada writes: >>Albin Forone from Toronto, Canada writes: I agree with the comment above that the Tories blew their moment by tying their hands with brainless GST cuts for brainless people. I'd be substantially real $ richer today with decent (Liberal proposal 2005) income tax relief than I will with the pittance returns from a $5000 per annum tax free account,

    So let me get this straight.

    You want to see the federal government go back into deficit.

    If an income tax cut would have given you and others 'substantially' more tax relief than the GST cut or a $5000 tax free account, then that would also have meant substantially more lost revenue for the federal government, surely sending us back on the way to budget deficits.

    Many people in this forum argue that the GST cuts resulted in the federal government losing too much revenue, but it seems that you wanted an income tax cut instead that in your own words would have provided substantially more tax relief, hence would have resulted in even greater revenue loss to the federal government.

    Just want to make sure I understand what you are saying.
  94. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: There is nothing for those who are at the bottom of the income scale, those who are always forgotten. If one does not earn enough, how are they to save?
  95. Fuzzy Bare from Ontario (Not Toronto), Canada writes: Matt Toma... You are wrong. In the 1990s, the Chretien government was paying 40% of national revenue on debt charges.
  96. John Cameron from Red Deer, Canada writes: I
    will be looking into the fine print of the TFSA some more. It sounds like you could leave money to grow there and withdraw all the gains tax free!
    All at once too! I wonder if it's restricted only to earned income like RRSP or can you use any source of income??
  97. Malcolm Thistle from Thornhill, Canada writes: Of course Dion says he won't force an election over this budget. The Liberals will cry over their spilt politically correct milk but this budget could go down as one of the most popular in recent history because it goes to the concerns of ordinary Canadians and Dion knows he would be defeated if he ran against it. What a hypocritical inveterbrate to slam it's contents but still vote for it.
  98. wayne ouellette from Canada writes: On a day when Canadas government delivers a prudent, effective and innovative budget what does the g&m do......they front page stephanie dion. Pathetic but predictable.
  99. looking on from Canada writes: Mr.Dion is so confussed and it will get worse for him when Bob Rae starts telling him what to do.