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Tories implore Senate to quash RESP bill

BRIAN LAGHI AND OMAR EL AKKAD

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:04 PM EDT 07/03/08

Government goes cap in hand to halt proposed tax shelter ...Read the full article

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  1. Brent Raby from The City State of Toronto, writes: Clearly and with good reason, Mr. Harper fears a well educated electorate.
  2. p m from Canada writes: “There's some reasonably minded senators that will look at this and say ‘this is not good news for taxpayers,' ” said MP Ted Menzies, the parliamentary secretary to Finance Minister Jim Flaherty.

    What kind of twisted logic is this? This provides the taxpayers relief from huge tuition expenses because the government hasn't funded the education system.

    Now it is going to cost the taxpayer?

    These guys have their heads buried so far into the trough they don't know which way is up.

    Try paying the tuition of three or four children these days. We all can't have large MP's salaries and benefits!!
  3. Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: This is sooooo rich. The Conservatives are going cap-in-hand to the institution they have said they are determined to do away with. I hope the senators make them sweat just a little.
  4. C C from Canada writes: tax-free-resp.blogspot.com

    Support the bill!
  5. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Amen to that, pm from Canada!

    It costs so much to educate children these days that most couples are just not having that many (if any.)

    Is that good for the economy in the long term?

    Mind you -- no one could accuse many Canadian politicians of being far sighted...
  6. Pete H from Canada writes: Well they really shouldn't have to go cap in hand. If the Senate was truely a chamber of sober second thought, they would turn down the bill for the partisan shame that it is. Anyone who thinks this bill was passed for any other purpose than to derail the budget just passed in the house isn't paying much attention or is so mired down in their own partisan politics that objectivity is thrown out the window. Does anyone really believe the liberals care about investment in secondary education. If you do, then ask yourself why the liberals didn't do it when they had the opportunity through a majority government.
  7. Henry IV from Ottawa, Canada writes: Wow - I guesss they couldn't ask the un-elected Senator Michael Fortier to spear-head this initiative with his fellow senators. It was only March 4 that Fortier damned the senate and called it useless.

    Fortier of course only bothered to vote on 4 of 35 bills and does not attend senate committee meetings and does not speak during Senate QP.

    Good luck with this one!
  8. John Connor from Canada writes: TD Bank's Don Drummond is correct. This bill is far more costly than the Liberals would have us believe. Par for the course when dealing with Liberal economic policy, the purest in oxymorons, second only to that of military intelligence.
  9. mike sty - from Canada writes:

    Maybe Harper will sue the senate.
  10. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: Who cares what it costs it a good plan, egalitarian and practical
    the government can look some where to budget OUR taxes.

    Way past the time for this crew, they are not waking up.
  11. Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: So, Pete H. and John Connor, you're suggesting there is a role to be played by the Senate in the running of our country?
  12. Kevin G from GTA, Canada writes: Typical of the current regime I suppose. They flount their minority gov't at every opportunity - 'defeat us, we dare you' they say, yet when the 'majority' pass a bill they get all bent out of shape. Harper and his cronies are like spoiled brats. You don't get your way all the time Stevie. Suck it up big boy and learn that sometimes you win and sometimes you lose.
  13. JDSmith ... from Toronto, Canada writes: Hmmm... let me see if I get this right:

    1: The Conservatives reduce the GST and thereby reduce the amount of monies available to fund items such as post-secondary education.

    2: The Conservatives enable the selling off of Canadian natural resource and high tech companies to global corporations.

    3: And now the Conversatives are not in favour of a tax reduction for the general population, that would enable families to pay for education that the government is no longer capable of funding?

    This is truly weird science... and indicative of the educational standards that have given us oxymoronic expressions like 'intelligent design'.

    The Harper government needs to be voted out.
  14. mike sty - from Canada writes:

    RESP = the right thing to do

    TFSA = more costly than resp= wrong thing to do

    TFSA = tax haven
  15. Robert Lepage from Ottawa, Canada writes: Some say Harper was a tactical mastermind, but it seems this sure caught him with his pants down. If he accepts, he goes into defecit, the media jumps all over it and makes breaks backbone of his party, the economy. If he ignores it, he's liable to be brought to the court of law. If he slows it down, he is a hypocrite for threatening the senate for stalling. I really cannot see anyway that he can get around this, except for the proviso that the journalist mentionned.
  16. M. Mark from Victoria, Canada writes: I'm a Liberal party member and I think this is an appropriate use of the the Senate veto. Such an expensive plan needs to be incorporated into the entire budget. Sober second thought can see this quite clearly. The opposition parties have made their point by sneaking this bill pass the Conservatives. Kill the bill for now and perhaps the government will consider something like this in next year's budget. We are heading into uncertain economic times. The Conservatives were right to bring in a simple budget with no grand schemes. Let wait and see what happens to the US economy.
  17. sol levin from Canada writes: On a day when 'Prime Minister Stephen Harper went to Bay Street Friday to urge provinces to cut the corporate rate to 10 per cent by 2012.' So tax cuts for corporations are OK for Harper but no 'tax relief for parents saving for their children's education.'

    And the Conservatives are going ask the unelected senate to obstruct the will of Parliament... what a strange day. I feel sorry for Conservative supporters today.
  18. siren call from Canada writes: When did we become such a poor country that we cannot help parents save money for their kid's education?

    Geez, maybe the 2% GST/consumption tax cut was a wee bit of a mistake.
  19. J Law from Canada writes: mike sty - from Canada writes:

    Maybe Harper will sue the senate.

    The senate didn't lie about him, Dion did.
  20. John Connor from Canada writes: Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: So, Pete H. and John Connor, you're suggesting there is a role to be played by the Senate in the running of our country?

    No there isn't. If it were up to me, I would been campaigning now. This move by the Liberals is strictly partisan and cheap politicking. I say bring the election, and end this charade by the cowards in the Opposition once and for all.

    As to the Senate, way past expiry IMHO.
  21. CD W from Canada writes: To the Senate, you have a bill that is supported by every family in Canada, and I mean every definition of family that we now hold. We all need this to allow our children to not graduate with oppressive debt, imagine, a tax shift from the nearly dead to the newly wed, a big change, give the youngsters and their cash strapped parents a way out of this morass of post secondary debt load.
  22. Expert Eel from Give Steve the Heave, Canada writes: The U.S. has the 'No Child Left Behind' act for their children.

    In Canada for our Children we have the 'No Right-leaning Corporation left behind' act.
  23. siren call from Canada writes: M. Mark from Victoria, Canada writes: The opposition parties have made their point by sneaking this bill pass the Conservatives.
    .................................

    Sneaking this bill past?

    Umm. Every bill gets 3 votes in the House.

    If the neo-conservatives are that out to lunch for 3 votes, there are more serious problems afoot.
  24. John Connor from Canada writes: Expert Eel from Give Steve the Heave, Canada writes: It really boils my blood thinking that there are children in Canada who want to be educated at the expense of their parents!!

    On the contrary, parents should pay for their childrens' education. Taxpayers should also contribute. But not all of it. Children are about chices. If you can make them, you must live with them.
  25. Pete H from Canada writes: Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: So, Pete H. and John Connor, you're suggesting there is a role to be played by the Senate in the running of our country?
    I would like to think there is given the present fiasco created by this bill, but I'm not holding my breath. You just need to read the likes of the Expert Els on these boards to get a real sense of what this bill is about. The liberals don't give a shlt about the cost of education, they had thirteen years of majority government to prove it and didn't. They care about their politics, not the country, and they are once again proving it.
  26. John Connor from Canada writes: Expert Eel from Give Steve the Heave, Canada writes: John Conner, come with me if you want to live!

    I get that a lot. No thanks, eels are simply gross.
  27. Justin Campbell from Ottawa, Canada writes: M. Mark from Victoria, Canada writes: I'm a Liberal party member and I think this is an appropriate use of the the Senate veto. Such an expensive plan needs to be incorporated into the entire budget. Sober second thought can see this quite clearly. The opposition parties have made their point by sneaking this bill pass the Conservatives. Kill the bill for now and perhaps the government will consider something like this in next year's budget. We are heading into uncertain economic times. The Conservatives were right to bring in a simple budget with no grand schemes. Let wait and see what happens to the US economy.

    ________________________

    Yeah, Mark, you've really fooled all of us into thinking you're a member of the Liberal Party.
  28. Dee H from Oakville, Canada writes: This is a far more attractive way to encourage parents to save for their children's education than the current grant and tax-sheltered product. Why would anyone (government) suggest that the Bill should be quashed? Any help parents can get towards saving for something that is becoming so expensive should be lauded. In the long run it would pay for itself. This Bill definitely gets my vote!!!
  29. Don Howard from Canada writes: The Conservatives are completely unprincipled, and this bill is exposing them for what they truly are.

    They are asking unelected Conservative Senators to block a tax saving measure...you can't make this stuff up:)
  30. David C from from the world that is, Canada writes: I like this bill and I hope it passes the senate. If this was a majority government, then Harper would have control and it would not have happened. As it was supported by a majority of parliamentarians, then it does represent the will of the people. So Harper should deal with this and not try to quash it because he wants his own way.

    Perhaps Flaterly should find some other savings to balance his budget and give this to the people. After all it is a MINORITY government, and that means consensus and compromise. And in theory, more balanced representation from all parties.
  31. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Mr. Harper should force a non-confidence motion calling on the Senate to defeat the bill.
  32. John Connor from Canada writes: Dee H from Oakville, Canada writes: This is a far more attractive way to encourage parents to save for their children's education than the current grant and tax-sheltered product. Why would anyone (government) suggest that the Bill should be quashed? Any help parents can get towards saving for something that is becoming so expensive should be lauded. In the long run it would pay for itself. This Bill definitely gets my vote!!!

    Dee: Read Karen Diamonds comment in the thread about RESP's in today's on-line section. Your tune may change. It is excellent, and provides additional consideration that must be given before this legislation sees daylight!
  33. FLUVIAL SEDIMENT from Canada writes: Oh, I don't know. The tax system is complicated enough as it is. High taxes and then deductions for this, deductions for that, all impossibly complicated calculations that you wind up having to pay an accountant to sort out for you. I kind of like the idea of reducing taxes, simplifying the whole thing, thus eliminating the need for a big self-perpetuating and expensive bureaucracy to administer it. Everyone pays the same percentage of tax above a certain income level. Period. That way we can all afford to educate our children without resorting to tax shelters.
  34. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: The government governs. The Finance minister sets the budget. Apparently NOT.

    Imagine in our own household, the 3 kids decide that their parent is not giving them sufficient allowance. They simply take the extra money out of the wallet. and the parents have to go to the nanny to seek a way of blocking the 3 kids, a nanny who is closer to the kids than the parents.

    So the official opposition party don't vote on the budget bill, but votes on its own non-budget money bill. Hmmmm...

    What's that movie. ah 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest' N'est-pas?
  35. The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes:
    It is obvious that Dion didn't lie about Harper either............
  36. Don Howard from Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Mr. Harper should force a non-confidence motion calling on the Senate to defeat the bill.

    and go to an election opposing tax cuts at a time when allegations of corruption and mismanagement are surfacing almost daily on the front page news.
  37. Don Howard from Canada writes: They are asking unelected Conservative Senators to block a tax saving measure...you can't make this stuff up:)
  38. John Connor from Canada writes: FLUVIAL SEDIMENT from Canada writes: Oh, I don't know. The tax system is complicated enough as it is. High taxes and then deductions for this, deductions for that, all impossibly complicated calculations that you wind up having to pay an accountant to sort out for you. I kind of like the idea of reducing taxes, simplifying the whole thing, thus eliminating the need for a big self-perpetuating and expensive bureaucracy to administer it.

    You still flogging that one rate system FLUV? I like the idea, and would support it, but although it's Friday, it ain't nearly frosty enough........
  39. Jen Dobson from Canada writes: How can the cons say Ontario should lower it's corporate tax rate - ie: impose a tax cut against CORPORATIONS, and then oppose a tax cut for the middle class that will help the next generation become educated??? It doesn't make sense.

    You cannot possibly say that corporate taxes should be lowered and then say that tax cuts cannot be granted for education. Make up your mind already.
  40. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Harper asks Senate to overrule the Commons. No matter what you think of the bill or the Liberals, you have gotta say: that is the definition of irony.
  41. The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes:
    The RESP plan has up front tax savings.

    Harper prefers plan(s) that cut the tax revenues of future governments and not his.
    Its an old con trick....................
  42. Don Howard from Canada writes: D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: Mr. Harper should force a non-confidence motion calling on the Senate to defeat the bill.

    PS... The Senate can't defeat a bill, it can only delay it or amend it. What's Harper going to do, order the Senate to add an amendment? he can't pass legislation that would actually force someone to do that.
  43. R L from Canada writes: I listened to Flaherty and other HarperCons speak on TV about how the further GST cut would help the poor too because renters and food would become cheaper.

    Apparently no one told them that there's no GST on rent, so that didn't help renters.

    And apparently no one told them that there's no GST on basic food groceries, so that didn't help either.

    It will help SUV buyers though.
  44. Yellow Jerry from Canada writes:
    Dumbing down of the electorate so our MP's don't feel so out of place.
  45. Allan Simonson from Canada writes: ' Expert Eel from Give Steve the Heave, Canada writes: The U.S. has the 'No Child Left Behind' act for their children.

    In Canada for our Children we have the 'No Right-leaning Corporation left behind' act.'

    No, but that's what Dalton wants.

    Corporate welfare.
  46. Robert Lepage from Ottawa, Canada writes: Brent Raby writes:
    'Rachel:
    Stay in the kitchen.'

    A little harsh I would say, but given her unilateral support for Big Brother to watch over us, thanks to her overarching analogy, I would say something else instead.
  47. Allan Simonson from Canada writes: I think there's a lack of understanding why being able to deduct RESP contributions would be dangerous. Tuition is already tax deductible, and also transferable to parents. Making RESP contributions tax deductible would create a 'double dip' situation.

    Also, we are not in a time where we can afford this. Where was this idea when we had more money to spend?
  48. Andrew Robinson from Ottawa, Canada writes: What a terrible mistake this would be for the conservatives to try and scrap this through the senate. Tax relief using these sorts of levers is what they should have had at the top of their agenda not the wasteful, PR stunt of the GST cut...

    It is amusing that the conservatives are relying on an 'artifact of a long time ago' to try and block a bill that was passed by our ELECTED members of parliament..
  49. Joe Little from Calgary, Canada writes: If most Canadian get well educated, Harpo clowns will never be elected. So Harpo will try everything he can to block this.
  50. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: The liberals and ndp don't realize what they are wishing for. Well educated and employed people do not embrace the ndp/liberal way

    ----------

    Sorry, cant agree with that broad statement. Since I have often voted Liberal in the past even though I now support this govt.

    But may I say... All liberals are not equal... some are more equal than others... 'Animal Farm' 1950's. Great animated movie.
  51. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Robert Lepage, thanks for 'defending' me :)

    '1984' Big Brother Style !!
  52. charlie brown from Canada writes: To Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada wrote: 'This is sooooo rich. The Conservatives are going cap-in-hand to the institution they have said they are determined to do away with.' Um, Lou, the pejoritve term 'cap in hand' was just a Globe (anti-Harper) smear. Pity you didn't pick up on that and just repeated it. An example of the power of the press and a gullible electorate.
  53. Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: For my two bits, and even if it means jacking the GST back up to 6 percent, or even 7 percent, do it to offset the cost of RESP.
  54. rick from river city from Canada writes: Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes:
    So the official opposition party don't vote on the budget bill, but votes on its own non-budget money bill. Hmmmm...

    exactly. When opposition parties, even a majority of them, gain control of the budget than they can choose government programs.
  55. Vern McPherson from writes: After all stevie has said about the senate ????

    After all every little brainwashed COns has said about the senate ?

    After what Fartier said about the senate just 3 days ago ?

    ..... the COns suddenly NEED THE SENATE ??

    AHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA

    AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHAH

    it's too much. the grand poobah the grand chessmaster suddenly needs the senate because ??????????????????????

    was vanloonie, the Simcoe mouth, the government house leader, in the $hitter when all these three readings and votes occurred on this bill ? ?

    WOW !!!!

    Too any scandals and too much lying friends The COns are running out of memory to cover their lies ..............

    Besides it's a great idea whose time is here !!
  56. Not right or left from Canada writes: Why is Harper trying to get help from the institution he pretty well degraded? If I was the Senate I would tell Harper where to go.
  57. Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: So the Conservatives are imploring the Senate, which Harper himself demeaned in front of the Australian Senate not too long ago, to kill a bill that would give a tax break to Canadians? So as to make easier for them to save for their children's education?

    This is Harper, the brilliant political strategist?
  58. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: For my two bits, and even if it means jacking the GST back up to 6 percent, or even 7 percent, do it to offset the cost of RESP

    ---------

    I can see where you coming from. Although GST cut is universal, whereas this is targeted to family with kids. We all have soft spot for kids, so if I may say jacking up GST from kid's clothing, baby diapers etc is not necessarily a good counterstep.

    Recall Chretian promised to kill the GST. Once elected he never did, because of ....?

    'Money Money...' a great ABBA song :)
  59. Adrian Howell from Toronto, Canada writes: Now, to all of you little Conservatives out there in the country and the House of Commons, what is one moral of this story? The moral of the story is that you should always treat people with RESPECT and COURTESY even if you disagree with them because you NEVER know when you might need a favour from them later on. The second moral is no one likes a hypocrite. Having 'gone off' on the unelected Senate, you should have the guts to fix this problem without them. The third moral? Two wrongs don't make a right, but they DO make you EVEN. Had we learned moral one...well, you might not be in a position to learn the third moral ( at a potential cost of 900 million dollars), as inflicted by the Senate of Canada.
  60. Don Howard from Canada writes: Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: So the Conservatives are imploring the Senate, which Harper himself demeaned in front of the Australian Senate not too long ago, to kill a bill that would give a tax break to Canadians? So as to make easier for them to save for their children's education?

    This is Harper, the brilliant political strategist?

    Like I said in a previous post...you really can't make this stuff up:)
  61. Lou Dobbs from Vancouver Island, Canada writes: You're right, Charlie. I should have said: The Conservatives are going to ask the Senate to exercise second sober thought permitted in our parliamentary democracy.

    Considering the Harper government's position on the Senate as an institution, I'm enjoying the delicious irony.
  62. The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes:
    Thats nothing new.........
    Harper is the biggest hypocrite on Canadian history.

    ok......... second to Mulroney.............
  63. D. B. from Greater Sask., Canada writes: My little post calling for a non-confidence motion to get the Senate to amend or delay the bill (thank you to Don Howard) was facetious. I wonder if siren call's post about Mr. Harper stacking the Senate was facetious too? Maybe it wasn't. In an earlier article, the CPC hinted at the possibility of a plan B if the Senate didn't bend to its will! What is that plan B about?
  64. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: rick from river city from Canada writes: Rachel M. .....exactly. When opposition parties, even a majority of them, gain control of the budget than they can choose government programs

    -----------

    Hi rick, thanks for the comment. Afraid we are in the minority on this board tonight.

    P.S. Going to rewatch 1980's Polish movie 'Coup d'etat' , hopefully not too soon :)
  65. Vern McPherson from writes: Years after harper is gone they will be talking about the lies and the deception that went on. Just like Ontario is still talking about some of the things Mike Harris tried to pull here ............

    Ontario is still trying to get out from under that era ....................

    I hope Canada doesn't suffer too much from this horridness these COns call government ............. The stupidity of the seat distribution attacks on Ontario Canada's most populated province and it's economic engine, all the other nonsense about the senate, the scandals and the lying on the lies -- and now this ???
  66. jimmie rabbit from toronto, Canada writes: the tories have just finished telling us there will be no assistance coming from them in the hard times for the next 2 years as promised in their wonderful budget; the put in a 'tax free savings account' that is useless to anyone but the rich; now along comes someone who puts through something that is actually of value to the poor & middle class trying to save money to get their kids through school & the harper 'conservatives' (these aren't the tories of bob stanfield or joe clark, my friends) want to block it

    in 1932 with the us already deep into the depression, herbert hoover (before he got unceremoniously turfed) was desperately trying to balance the us budget. looks like harper is cut from the same cloth. hope he suffers the same fate.
  67. H Chauhan from Toronto, Canada writes: Did Dan McTeague take into account the current RESP provision and 20% government grant every year to the age of 18?
    Did his bill say that provision now should be scrapped and replaced with this tax-deferred RESP? Or will taxpayers be allowed to contribute into both? If so, we could call it double dipping.
    Clear as mud,eh!
  68. jason kays from Caledonia, Canada writes: I am usually a Conservative supporter, but I disagree with their opposition to this. Much better than a reduction in GST/Consumption tax. Why not reward the responsible Canadians who save and invest? Not to mention our Children!
    Can't see how they can come out of this one without loosing some points in the polls. Going to the Senate for help! Oh the hypocrisy! A double loss for them.
  69. True Conservative from Hammertown, Canada writes: GST cut = Wow, I'll save a bundle on that new Luxury Yacht.

    RESP tax credit = Well educated, less financially stressed workforce to make us globally competitive and keep this country chugging ahead.
  70. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Now I see the light...

    Mr. Dion does not defeat the govt on confidence bill.

    Why do so, when he can do end run around , and set his own policy by private member bills.

    And I thought Harper is the master politician....

    Well better send him to the Donald for the next 'Apprentice' training.
  71. Allan Simonson from Canada writes: I like it how every one of you tools are dancing around my questions and comments. Nothing but ad hom, illogical insults to someone that would not and cannot defend themselves here.

    Must feel manly yelling insults to a wall.
  72. jimmie rabbit from toronto, Canada writes: i don't understand. i thought education was a public good. why is it bad for the government to fund a public good. if our taxes don't pay for public goods then what do they pay for?
  73. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: 'The liberals and ndp don't realize what they are wishing for. Well educated and employed people do not embrace the ndp/liberal way.'

    Uhh... statistically if you have post secondary education, you are much more likely to vote liberal (though not NDP).
  74. F. Wm. Woodward from calgary, Canada writes: This is not good news for Mr Harper to have to go to the Senate looking for a favour. Quite simply any political capital Harper may have had was extinguished some time ago. Furthurmore this Govts rate of spending gives it zero credibility when it comes to fiscal issues which this is. The litany of broken promises by Mr Harper has brought Canadians to the sudden realization these Guys are no better than their loyal opposition. The bottom line therefore is trust and that is gone.
  75. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: jason kays from Caledonia, Canada writes: I am usually a Conservative supporter, but I disagree with their opposition to this. Much better than a reduction in GST/Consumption tax. Why not reward the responsible Canadians who save and invest? Not to mention our Children

    ----------

    Good comment.

    Though, there are already so many savings type tax incentive programs. The RRSP income tax dedcution, the RESP kids shelter with the govt kicking in $400 per year, the new 2009 Savings Plan tax shelter up to $5,000 per year..

    Yes , some one could benefit from this new variation on RESP, but it will really take a high income earner to benefit from all.

    At the end of the day, this could be still a decent proposal. The point I am pointing out... is the govt responsible for setting the budget or is the 4 opposition parties.

    'The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse' ? Nah, cant think of a better title... lol
  76. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: Yet another reason for Canadian taxpayers and voters to have nothing but disdain for ALL the clowns in Ottawa regardless of party who play loose and fast for partisan purposes and FORGET they were elected to represent their constituents in a responsible and honest manner. I fear we make Russia look like democratic genius compared to us.
  77. Don Howard from Canada writes: Brent Raby from The City State of Toronto, writes: Mr. Harper's aversion to an educated electorate is perfectly understandable.

    In America. in the 19th century as education spread west, the sale of snake oil declined commensurately.

    LOL thank you
  78. Yellow Jerry from Canada writes:
    Immigrants moving here now are better educated than our general population, we've gotta stay ahead of the curve.
  79. P F from Toronto, Canada writes: The art of good government involves compromise.

    In return for vetoing this education bill, the Senate should demand the Conservatives abandon their plan to deny tax credits to TV and film productions that contain material objectionable to their evangelical supporters.

    And what the heck, lets also demand Harper appoint Mr. Charles McVety to the Senate. Out of sight, out of mind!
  80. Grant Bowen from new west, Canada writes: Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: The liberals and ndp don't realize what they are wishing for. Well educated and employed people do not embrace the ndp/liberal way.
    ---------------
    H ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! That must be why most Con supporters are from Alberta
  81. spicydoc the great non-partisan truth seeker, (a name stolen from diane marie), Canada writes:

    I hope all you Harper-haters have enough cash to enjoy this 'coup'.

    If this passes, I'll save 8G a year in taxes, since I can max out. Happy days.

    However, if this forces a deficit and forces a cut (say to infrastructure), too bad for you. I'll keep my cash.

    Besides, a deficit is now squarely the fault of the opps, which is also good.

    If this was such a good idea, why didn't the LPC introduce it in their budget amendment? Bizarre.

    You guys can enjoy your little victory dance, but the only people cashing in on the big break are the well-to-do.
  82. earl pearl from Canada writes: The Liberals will do anything they can to push the government into a deficit situation. Absolutely shameful.
  83. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Grant Bowen from new west, Canada writes:' Counterspinner tells the truth from Canada writes: The liberals and ndp don't realize what they are wishing for. Well educated and employed people do not embrace the ndp/liberal way.
    ---------------
    H ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! That must be why most Con supporters are from Alberta'

    Wait, statisticly, secondary educated people vote Liberal... In effect you are saying Alberta is stupid. You're words, not mine.
  84. siren call from Canada writes: Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes:
    The point I am pointing out... is the govt responsible for setting the budget or is the 4 opposition parties.
    ...............................

    Yes, this is a new one to me, opposition proposing a 'money bill'.

    But if it were beyond what the House can do, I am sure Mr. Harper would have the offending individuals properly served with legal papers.

    'I'll sue!' Steve that he is.

    Psst, 3 opposition parties.
  85. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Grant Bowen from new west, ....H ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!! That must be why most Con supporters are from Alberta

    -----------

    Ah, some of us support this govt, but not necessary a 'con'.

    I am from out west though.

    Is Mississauga west enough of Toronto ? :)

    'Go West, Young Men' !
  86. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Siren Call... thanks for the comment on the 3 opp parties. I counted Ms May in the Balcony... so that I can fit my movie title '4 horsemen ...' :)
  87. Fungal Fred from Fungusville, Canada writes: Yes I agree. they should ask Senator Fortier to discuss the matter with them. He is a voice of light and reason. He seems to be very highly respected in the Senate.
  88. DJ I from Toronto, Canada writes: Apparently the Conservative's were all drinking booze on the taxpayer's dime at lunch and dinner and did not realize what the Liberals were doing when this bill came into the Common's.

    How can a group of presumably responsible adults review legislation and not understand what is at stake, perhaps they could have benefited from a higher education themselves if this had been passed the last time the Conservatives were in power. But then we are into a situation where one is chasing one's own tail.

    Perhaps now they realize they cannot drink for free anymore yet proclaim they are the guardians of Canada's finances if the bill passes...

    Time for an election.
  89. skydaemon . from Vancouver, Canada writes: This is just retarded. Dissolve the government and let's thow the liberal trash out for good.
  90. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: earl pearl from Canada writes: ' The Liberals will do anything they can to push the government into a deficit situation. Absolutely shameful.'

    Look, people might not believe this, but Stephen Harper (Conservative, Calgary South-West) is our Prime Minister. Contrary to what some believe, Liberals do not control everything.

    If the Prime Minister is unable to control the House, in which he has a plurality, and hence unable to prevent a deficit (especially in light of totally unrestrained spending) it is his responsibility. In a hierachy, responsibility always flows up. Harper is at the top, it was his responsibility to sink or pass this bill and (I can't figure out why) he didn't.

    Can anyone seriously imagine the Conservative adds on this?

    Cons: 'the Liberals are the reason we are in deficit now'
    Liberals: 'But if you had maintained spending at the rate we had left it, there would be a 30 billion dollar surplus today'

    That is even ignoring the GST cuts!
  91. Don Howard from Canada writes: earl pearl from Canada writes: The Liberals will do anything they can to push the government into a deficit situation. Absolutely shameful.

    The GST tax cuts and the ballooning government spending are to blame. The Conservatives can't say that a 900 million dollar program is the reason why they can't balance the books. Especially after they came into power with a 14 billion surplus and a strong economy.
  92. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Hi Vern, I dont completely disagree with you.

    But..

    The parliament is consisting of the 300 odd MPs

    The government consists of the the governing party and the civil servants. Here we have a minority government. It should be given the role to govern, such as setting money bill. if the parliament dont like it, just bring down the govt.

    Anyway, that is my 'Minority Report (2002)'
  93. Allan Simonson from Canada writes: 'If this was such a good idea, why didn't the LPC introduce it in their budget amendment? Bizarre.'

    You mean the liberal budget amendment where only a handful of liberals bothered to show up?
  94. Fungal Fred from Fungusville, Canada writes: Perhaps the CPC should put the GST back up to 6% -- that would bring in ... how much .... a couple of billion per year?? And they could still say they kept their promise to reduce it!
  95. Shamus M from Canada writes: Wake up John Connor, the Liberal Party ran the economy quite well. They created the surplus that the Conservatives have squandered. It's those same Conservatives who are afraid of empty coffers now that they are in power. Drop the idealistic dreaming and look at the facts.
  96. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Allan Simonson from Canada writes: 'If this was such a good idea, why didn't the LPC introduce it in their budget amendment? Bizarre.'

    You mean the liberal budget amendment where only a handful of liberals bothered to show up?

    ------------

    Hi Allan, don't be so harsh on the Liberals. Dion did show up with several MPs.... a la ..'Twelve Angry Men' (1957).
  97. Allan Simonson from Canada writes: You guys are acting like a huge 30 billion dollar surplus is something to strive for.
  98. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Fungal Fred from Fungusville, Canada writes: 'Perhaps the CPC should put the GST back up to 6% -- that would bring in ... how much .... a couple of billion per year?? And they could still say they kept their promise to reduce it!'

    THAT isn't even necessary! If they had just kept spending at the Liberal level, and even if they still brought in all of their tax cuts, we would have a 30 billion dollar surplus today.

    I don't even understand where this money has gone. Aside from my sure-to-be-never-used 'high speed' rail line to Mr. Flahery's house to complain, not much has changed.
  99. Andrew Kondra from Canada writes: DJ I from Toronto, Canada writes: Apparently the Conservative's were all drinking booze on the taxpayer's dime at lunch and dinner and did not realize what the Liberals were doing when this bill came into the Common's. Maybe you should be educated enough to figure out that regardless of what the Conservatives were doing, they can be outvoted. It's simple math so one may question your education. The conservatives have asked/insisted that the Senate uphold CONFIDENCE votes/issues. An money bill which is, basically, an amendment to the budget which puts the government into a defecit position is fundamentally a confidence vote when the budget was based on NOT running a defecit. Budgets are a matter of confidence regardless of what party or election you are talking about. So the Conservatives are very consistent in their expectations of the Senate - upholding confidence votes. If the Senate passes the new RESP bill, they are essentially throwing the government into a non-confidence situation. I am not neccessarily against the principples of this bill, but it MUST be considered within the context of the entire budget.
  100. siren call from Canada writes: Rachel M. from Hollywood North,

    3 horsemen & 1 horse women.

    Everyone feels sorry for the horses.

    They shoot horses, don't they?
  101. ishmael daro from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Whether you agree with the bill or not, you have to admit that it's pretty good political maneuvering by all three opposition parties. No matter what, Harper looks like a hypocrite. Coupled with the Cadman story, I'd say it's the right time for an election if you're an opposition MP.
  102. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Allan Simonson from Canada writes: 'You guys are acting like a huge 30 billion dollar surplus is something to strive for.'

    Fair enough, but to ratchet spending up 30 billion dollars when all economic forecast predict tighter times, then blame the Liberals for going into a deficit is bizarre to say the least.
  103. Rachel M. from Hollywood North, Canada writes: Shamus M from Canada writes: Wake up John Connor, the Liberal Party ran the economy quite well. They created the surplus that the Conservatives have squandered. It's those same Conservatives who are afraid of empty coffers now that they are in power. Drop the idealistic dreaming and look at the facts.

    =====

    The Liberals with Paul Martin as finance minister did a pretty good job... a bit of downloading to the province... but quite competent. This is why I voted for them in the past...

    but now I support this current govt. They did not squander. Dont forget this budget set aside $10 Billions to cut the deficit.

    The projected revenue for next year may be much smaller, although with the strong job growth from today's headline, we may be in for a surprise.

    Th
    • Posted 07/03/08 at 11:46 PM EDT |