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Tories stalling abuse probe, watchdog says

PAUL KORING

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 2:39 AM EDT 13/03/08

Stage set for standoff between Ottawa and independent agency as Military Police Complaints Commission orders public hearings to get access to key uncensored reports on treatment of detainees ...Read the full article

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  1. Pvt. Happy from Canada writes: They knew and everyone knows they knew.

    Thanks Harper for letting me use a verb 3 times in a single sentence.

    Canada should be ashamed.
  2. The Religious Left from Kingston, Canada writes:
    Do we really need to sink to this? I guess I'm naive, I just thought we were a more moral country than this. So far this country has managed to emerge victorious from every war without lowering itself like this, is this really necessary?
  3. Robert Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Stanley Blythe, the Military Police Complaints Commission Chief of Staff said yesterday, 'We are part of the Government, the public isn't going to see these documents.'

    Huh?

    Then, why is this thing being called a 'public' hearing exactly?
  4. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: More lies and cover ups from the conservatives, operational security,
    ya for sure, conservative operational security.

    Cannot walk the talk, bc they just do not have that part in them.
    accountability and responsibility and transparency is more then a campaign theme.

    what a joke
  5. Mister G. from Canada writes: dave sharpe from Canada writes: harper and crowd---pigs ----------------------
    Lieberals and you = @ssh0le.

    Anyway, the G&M on its crusade to save the talibans again.
    I guess the G&M likes to flog a dead horse.
    Does ANYBODY honestly think the conservatives are going to fund another useless probe into an unproven aledeged alegation of possible abuse by taliban fighters.

    The army stopped detainee transfers when they found REAL evidence of abuse but thats not good enough for the left I guess.
    This paper is a joke.
  6. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Sad... really sad.

    Some people in this country don't care about freedoms. They don't care about doing the right thing.

    They don't care about our military.

    All they care about is making our current government look bad.... No matter what.

    Sad... very sad.
  7. diane marie from calgary, Canada writes: Robert Miller:-- The in camera process of the Commission was not progressing because, so Mr. Tinsley claims, the NGC has not been cooperating. Therefore, he has called for public hearings in order to enjoy subpoena powers.
  8. Orest Zarowsky from Toronto, Canada writes: Open! Transparent! Accountable! Say again? To whom?
  9. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: That was a very intelligent comment Mister G, or at least it would be if you were still in kindergarten.
  10. old curmudgeon from Armenia writes: Pretty sad when the military cares more for basic human rights than our elected representatives. Also pretty sad that the Federal Court would countenance denying those outside the country the protections we enjoy inside the country, especially in light of the more enlightened earlier decisions of the Supreme Court to refuse to extradite to any country without guarantees of non-execution.
  11. Pamela Achurch from Peterborough, Canada writes: When Bush vetoed the bill passed by Congress to forbid waterboarding and other torture techniques by the CIA, the bar was lowered for Harper too. He can justify the torture of detainees, or equally, ignore their plight when turned over to known torturers. By allowing it, we are guilty too. My question is why? Why does our govt go to such lengths to keep us in the dark? Why do they not value human rights? What are they doing that they do not want us to know?
  12. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    Wonder where GM got the picture - detainees walk blindfolded into a pit and armed troops standing by ??? to give them a last cigarette?
    The GM doesn't miss a trick in the book to make our soldiers look bad - for the sake of Liberals.
  13. David Blott from Dartmouth, NS, Canada writes:

    Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    'Wonder where GM got the picture - detainees walk blindfolded into a pit and armed troops standing by ??? to give them a last cigarette?
    The GM doesn't miss a trick in the book to make our soldiers look bad - for the sake of Liberals.'

    Given the fact that this newspaper not only endorsed Harper in the last election, but has also endorsed every important piece of legislation this government has introduced, and has advocated for Canada's continued presence in Kandahar, your comment is simply idiotic.
  14. Pete H from Canada writes: Alastair james Berry from Nanaimo BC, Canada writes:
    A most curious picture accompanies the article......Why are the detainees being lead into a pit? ..........Looks rather like a Buchenvald Belsen 'death pit' in which concentration camp victims were slaughtered and the bodies covered over to hide the mass grave site
    Do you really need to ask that question? Look at the posts that followand the reponses that are elicited. I'm surprised that a picture of PM Harper with horns hasn't been transposed onto the picture. If a vote in the HOC can't get us out of Afghanistan and the conservatives out of power, there are other measures which can be taken.
  15. Pete H from Canada writes: Paul Thompson from Canada writes: That was a very intelligent comment Mister G, or at least it would be if you were still in kindergarten
    No opinion on Dave Sharpes comment, or do you agree?
  16. James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: 'Pamela Achurch from Peterborough, Canada writes: When Bush vetoed the bill passed by Congress to forbid waterboarding and other torture techniques by the CIA, the bar was lowered for Harper too. He can justify the torture of detainees, or equally, ignore their plight when turned over to known torturers. By allowing it, we are guilty too. My question is why? Why does our govt go to such lengths to keep us in the dark? Why do they not value human rights? What are they doing that they do not want us to know?'

    ----------

    comments like this just prove that no matter what the government or the CF do, there will be criticism aplenty. our government has done more than enough to ensure fair treatment of prisoners captured in afghanistan. in fact, the current government has improved the handover agreement negotiated and signed during the previous liberal governments time in power. good bye.
  17. James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: one more point, whether or not the government/PM/PMO/CF is telling the truth on anything/everything regarding this issue, some posters on this forum hate the current leadership of the country and the military so much, the truth doesnt matter any longer. no matter what they tell us, it isnt good enough for you :-)
  18. David Blott from Dartmouth, NS, Canada writes:

    James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: 'one more point, whether or not the government/PM/PMO/CF is telling the truth on anything/everything regarding this issue, some posters on this forum hate the current leadership of the country and the military so much, the truth doesnt matter any longer. no matter what they tell us, it isnt good enough for you :-)'

    James:

    I think that before you can make that observation, there would have to be an instance of the government telling truth on the file. Let us know if you come across one.
  19. James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: david, i stand by my comment. a lot of the comments on these threads are laughable.

    'the government should do A and not B!!!' then when the government does A, it becomes 'thats not what i meant! i meant A(1)...' well you get the picture. you cant please some of the people any of the time. fortunately, i'm sure this forum nowhere near represents the thinking and feelings of canadians in general.
  20. Pete H from Canada writes: James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: david, i stand by my comment. a lot of the comments on these threads are laughable.

    It is all dependent on the colour of your partisan glasses.
  21. janfromthe bruce from Canada writes: Harper and con crew get elected on open transparent and accountable govt and this is just the latest stance, of not doing what one says.
    This is the most secretive govt ever, and the trust factor is so low I can't see it.
    So what does harper and crew want to hide from the public? Torture???
  22. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Simple solution.....don't take prisoners. Then our soldiers avoid all the BS back at home from the Holier Than Thou unrealistic leftists.
  23. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    'That ruling will likely be appealed and is expected to eventually reach the Supreme Court, where the extraterritorial reach of Canada's Charter of Rights will ultimately be decided.'

    Good god, I wonder if the writers of the Charter ever envisioned how the Courts would twist and skew its meanings. Or how lobbyists and special interest groups would hound the left leaning Courts to always see it their way, and for the most part, a distorted way.

    Where is the Charter when VICTIMS of Canadian crimes are left almost hopeless, while criminals hide behind, and are so protected by their rights? Where is the criminal payback to the victims for their crimes? Rubbish!

    Doesn't anyone see how this country is being played by special interest groups by twisting and interpreting this same Charter with high paid and unrelenting legal people?

    We should be writing a new Charter: The Charter of Responsiblies of Canadian Citizens Towards Their Country Canada!

    It's always about 'Rights,' with almost no regard to consequences, and never about 'Responsibilities!'

    .
  24. Levap K from Burlington, Canada writes: It is so easy to discuss and criticize from our cosy, secure homes and country. To all those righteous, I wonder how many of you got a taste what it means to put your life on the line and face the whistling bullets. Prisoners, who wouldn't hesitate a second to retaliate and kill you, if you give them one unguarded moment.
  25. Racy .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: one more point, whether or not the government/PM/PMO/CF is telling the truth on anything/everything regarding this issue, some posters on this forum hate the current leadership of the country and the military so much, the truth doesnt matter any longer. no matter what they tell us, it isnt good enough for you :-)

    ----------------

    Good point... and the G&M adds to the feeding frenzy.

    Combined, they are forming the official oppostion instead of the Where in the World is Carmen Diego Liberal MPs?
  26. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: From the article: “This is not a security or classification issue,” Stanley Blythe, the MPCC chief of staff, said yesterday. “We are a part of the government; the public isn't going to see these documents.”

    The documents will help the MPCC understand “what did they know or should have known” when decisions were made to transfer detainees, Mr. Blythe said.

    “We have tried at every level we can,” including writing to ministers to seek the release of the uncensored documents, he said.

    Mr. Tinsley said he didn't “take this decision lightly; it is estimated the hearing process could cost in the range of $2-million and will easily add months to the investigation. However, we are simply left with no other choice.”

    _______________________________________________________

    So Harper Stonewalls the Commission, forcing a $2 million inquiry. Must have something to hide I guess.
  27. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Robert Miller: It's being called a public Inquiry because Harper's government is stone walling and refusing to release documents privately.

    Haw soon before Harper 'Keens' the head of the Complaints Commission?

    How will the Liberal party justify sitting this one out (aftr much sturm unt drang of course!)

    So many questions, so little time.
  28. prospector from blackfly country from Canada writes: James C from Shenzhen, Guangdong, China writes: one more point, whether or not the government/PM/PMO/CF is telling the truth on anything/everything regarding this issue, some posters on this forum hate the current leadership of the country and the military so much, the truth doesnt matter any longer. no matter what they tell us, it isnt good enough for you :-)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You're absolutely right!
    The other side of this coin is - where else in the world can the chronically malcontents and ignorant louts sound off about their country's leader with such vitriol, and suffer no consequences. No censorship, or knocks on the door at two a.m. Those who have lived elsewhere in the world know about these things. We appreciate what the gov't and military is trying to do in Afganistan.
    The G&M is simply in the business of selling papers, nothing else. They'll print anything to rile people up. In war and media sales - the truth is always the first casualty.
  29. BJ Homes from Ontario, Canada writes: This government talks accountability and transparency, but practices the opposite.

    The Harper government tried to block the disclosure of the Arar Commission's report asserting that the information should be kept confidential for national security reasons.
  30. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: Instead of this constant barrage of negativism, how about a positive statement as to what these people want by choosing one of the following?

    1 Catch and release? Just tell them they're naughty and let them go?
    2 Take no prisoners? Simply kill them on sight?
    3 Keep them as our prisoners? Build and set up a Canadian prison?
    4 Bring them to Canada? Incarcerate them in our own prisons?

    Amnesty International has lots of money, why don't they simply set up and operate a prison system, and publish a regular news report as to their activities and successes? That would surely please everyone. Most importantly those poor innicent wretches that are aprehended before they kill our personnel.

    Another alternative would to be to go along with the NDP and their ilk and simply apologize to the Afghan people for having intervened in their former high standard way of life and bring our troops home.
    This would involve some international humiliation but so what, we would at least know we have bowed to the wishes of the cowards in our midst.
  31. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: G Pankhurst, nice try at the ol' misdirection spin game. The issue here is transparancy and accountability. If everything the Harper government is allowing to happen in A'stan is above board and hunky dorry that's wonderful, but why does the government cloud the issue by refusing to release documentation to the complaints commission.

    Even if they are totally innocent of wrongdoing, they simply make themselves look guilty as sin by stonewalling and obfuscation.
  32. F H from Canada writes: Sad, really sad, that some people care so little for the good name of Canada that they'll allow the Harper et al to drag its reputation through the dirt.
  33. Scott McLean from writes: Oh my god. Whatever will happen to poor little momar after we catch him firing mortars at our base? Will he be given a warm coat? Will he be able to tune in to Al-Jazeera so he can catch up on who has been beheaded today?
    If the loons in this country spent a little more time trying to make our country a better place by working with the disadvantaged, and a little less on trying to remove the battery cables from momar's lower regions, those less fortunate in Canada might be able to have a better life.
    Your priorities are about as clear as Dion's.
  34. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Scott M: Same question for you as Gerry P. Why won't the Harper government simply release the documentation? If everything was above board (not the waterboard shurely) everyone will heave a sigh of relief, we'll save $2 million and this will all go away.

    If The Cons continue stonewalling they make themselves look guilty as hell.

    Why won't the Cons release the documentation to a commission that is cleared for 'eyes only' security?
  35. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: I wonder how Canadians as a whole would react if a foreign army entered this country.
  36. A B from Calgary Area, Canada writes:

    Why doesn't Harpler just FIRE these people??... like everyone else who gets in his path of lies.
  37. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Scott McLean: One more thing. You write: If the loons in this country spent a little more time trying to make our country a better place by working with the disadvantaged, and a little less on trying to remove the battery cables from momar's lower regions, those less fortunate in Canada might be able to have a better life.
    _______________________________________________________

    If Harper would simply answer the Commissions Questions honestly and openly, we could avoid spending $2 Million on an Inquiry, and spend it on those same disadvantaged Canadians you shed Crocodile tears about.
  38. Catherine Wilkie from Canada writes: Who are handing these prisoners over? Are they being handed over by NATO forces? Or, are they being handed over by civilians looking for a bounty?
  39. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: I SEE THE LEFTYS ARE HARD AT IT THIS MORNING LOL.Glad you people wernt around for ww2 the nazis would have won.
  40. Milburn McLean from Toronto, Canada writes: Not only are we spending my tax money fighting in Afghanistan, people want us to waste more money protecting the very people killing our soldiers as well as innocent Afghans.

    When the Taliban start living under a constitution that is the same as ours I see no reason to give these killers the same protection we enjoy at home. You can bet you last little dollar that if they were to take over Canada they'd likely use our constitution for toilet paper.

    It isn't pretty fighting these people and I've yet to hear a viable alternative. The choices the Taliban offer does not include any Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
  41. The Bubble from Canada writes: Stockwell Day takes the prisoners to the Carp Bunker where he dresses up in Nazi leathers and whips them while prancing around on tip toe.
    Zig Heil!!
  42. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: Scott McLean: You are a voice in the wilderness but you hit the nail on the head. In contrast, read the diatribe by Yurchuk in response to me. Makes me want to upchuk.

    Just be thankful that all of these government bashing ill-informed arm chair generals weren't around during WWII. If they had their way, with this kind of bleeding heart nonsense we would all be wearing jackboots, marching goose step style and singing
    Deutchland Uber Alles.
  43. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Ralph, My old man was a lefty too, and he was around for WWII. Took care of business in Normandy, and then trained snipers at Gagetown. But that's got nothing to do with the question at hand. What is Harper trying to hide? Why won't he answer the Complaint Commission's questions?
  44. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Gerry P, What? My reasoned response a diatribe? Perish the thought.
  45. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Lol bubble if you remember right it was your great leader trudeau riding his bike in ottawa with his nazi uniform on not the conservitives
  46. mike sty - from Canada writes: Mister G. from Canada writes:

    Anyway, the G&M on its crusade to save the talibans again.
    I guess the G&M likes to flog a dead horse.
    --------------------------
    Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:
    The GM doesn't miss a trick in the book to make our soldiers look bad
    --------------------------

    Conservative's guide to defending the undefendable, rule number...

    10) The Globe and Mail is a commie Liberal propaganda organ. (The paranoid defense).
  47. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: With all of this controversy, the pro-sadism types are a little frustrated . . . . what's more, their 'torture gets us valuable information' crap is having less and less appeal.
  48. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Bubble, I believe you are a Con plant trying to make the left look bad. Dummy up buddy. If you are trying to argue with the cons using their level of debate, you sink to their level.
  49. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: kenneth dont you think that some of the stuff thats not being said just might be a risk to our soldiers.
  50. 4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: From the article: 'The decision sets the stage for a confrontation between the Harper government and the independent civilian oversight body.'

    Goodbye Mr. Tinsley.

    Harper and his minority party are like the walking dead and because we are the government we choose, until we take a breath and decide we want to LIVE again we will have to look at our dark side.

    I hope every MP that is going to vote on the Harper extension for this Afghan mission watched The Fifth Estate last night and will have at least a tinge of guilt the next time we lose another soldier to death or injury or our weapons kill or maime more innocent Afghans that go back to a hard life with disabilities that make it even harder.

    Put down your weapons please and help shut down the war industry.
  51. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Ralph, 2 points: #1 if the Harperites release the info to the Commission, who are cleared to the highest levels of security, the documents won't be made public, only the Commission's conclusions.
    #2. By refusing to release the documentation the government has forced the Commission to resort to subpoena, in a PUBLIC inquiry, which means the info is released publicly.

    Ergo: by refusing to co-operate with the commission voluntarily, It is the Harperites who will be responsible for the publication of any sensitive information.
  52. mike sty - from Canada writes: 4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes:

    Harper and his minority party are like the walking dead
    --------------------

    Night of the Living Dead, walking zombies.

    The Stephen Harper Gang
  53. Open Mike from Vancouver, Canada writes: Sigh. The elementary reason you don't mistreat enemy prisoners is so that the enemy has no justification in mistreating our men or women who are captured. In the background, away from these witless message boards, you always want to set up exchanges, right? And you don't want damaged goods coming back just 'cos we kicked them around a bit when in custody, right? And even when it come to extracting information, centuries of warfare show that torture is the least effective way of getting it. You only torture because you think you can get away with it, no other reason. Unless you're terminally stupid and think the information you get from inflicting severe trauma and pain is worth more than a pile of pig$hit. That seems to be the American approach, but then when do the Americans ever adopt the intelligent way? On anything? But why should the Great Bumpkin and his administration emulate them and then try to cover it up?
  54. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Mike Sty, comparing Harper to Spitzer is an injusice most foul. At least Mr. Spitzer had a normal perversion. Harper gets his Jollies manipulating Dion in most unnatural ways.
  55. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Hey kenneth theres an easy solution,call dion and tell him to vote the goverment down on the afgan mission.
  56. JimBobby Sez from Nanticoke, Canada writes: 60%-70% of prisoners handed over to Afghan authorities are only held only briefly before they are able to bribe their way out of jail.

    See: http://www.newsweek.com/id/107576/page/1

    Why do we fail to follow up on detainees to make sure they do not pay $20 and go back to the Taliban front lines? Are we are so afraid of confirming that we are in violation of international law that we look the other way while two things happen: bribery and torture?

    Why have we given in to Afghan demands that we resume detainee transfers? Afghan soldiers and police only make $4 a day. They need the bribes to survive. Bribery has been an integral part of the Afghan economy for centuries. If we keep the detainees or follow up on their treatment, Afghan soldiers and police lose the opportunity for much needed extra cash.

    Many so-called Taliban who are delivered for bounty to NATO forces are not Taliban at all. Tribal and family rivalries routinely see Afghans kidnapped for ransom or turned over to NATO, then by NATO to Afghans. From there, the age old system of bribery, pay-offs and torture goes into effect.

    Before 9/11, the Taliban and the Northern Alliance were in a civil war. Neither Taliban nor Northern Alliance are concerned with human rights. The Taliban was able to seize power precisely because of the abuses of the warlords who we've helped restore to power. We are simply taking the side of one group of thugs over another.

    The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan is a warlord-ruled narco state that operates with Sharia Law enshrined in its brand new constitution. No Canadian should have to put his or her life on the line for these tyrants and drug dealers.

    JB
  57. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Ralph, I tried that. Dion is too busy moving into the basement of 24 Sussex Dr. So he can be closer to his new master.
  58. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Lmao
  59. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes:
    It's only $ 2 million Harper . You paid Arar $ 10 million to settle out of court . Efeminite men do not fair well in jail ?
  60. Mark Orr from toronto, Canada writes: Er Scott, you don't get it, it's not OUR base it is THEIR base, their country etc. So called 'patriots' like to seem to forget that if OUR country were invaded, we'd probably do the same things as they are doing. (all partisan wars are similar) . It is sicking that our troops appear to be complicit in torture. If this is true, they have acted illegaly and dishonorably. I suppose nothing will be done until another Somalia scandal break out.
  61. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Ralph, unrealistic dudes like this Kenneth Yurchuk fella' just don't think in those terms. They don't really care either..... they have Ideals, you know, and heaven help reality interfering with their Ideals. Little Kenny, it's because of things like you that Gov'ts don't give out information....you just don't have The Need To Know..... and shouldn't, as all you types contribute is BS to any given equation. You look at the world through rose coloured glasses, or maybe rainbow ones :-) and can never see the real world for what it is. I, for one, have absolutely no problem keeping all kinds of information from you types as you just don't know how to handle it.
  62. Ted Andrews from Canada writes:
    TROOPS OUT NOW!
  63. Repeatedly Censored from Bushland, Canada writes: Anything of crucial importance to this country that those creatures are not stalling? Well there's the GREEN (fossils') PLAN.... to possibly begin circ. 2020... Agreed, that is not convincing... Oh! got it: the next federal elections! That's it. 'Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister... etc.' (g & m readers' kindergarden singsong)
  64. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Good point cc but i dont think kenneth is dumb like some of the leftists here who think if they try to get as many scandels started they might get lucky with one of them. Personally i would like to open that adscam and income trust scam again and watch how many senior liebriel get nervous lol.
  65. Boreal Moose from Canada writes: Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes:
    'Amnesty International has lots of money, why don't they simply set up and operate a prison system, and publish a regular news report as to their activities and successes?'

    What drugs are you on? I know guys like you live in a fantasyland where organizations devoted to human rights have mountains of donated left-wing gold. Facts suggest otherwise. The entire budget for Amnesty International throughout the world is about 25 million bucks, and that is for all international campaigns and efforts in all nations. So Gerry: Everything AI does it manages to do using 1/40th of the reported 1bn budgetary overshot of Canada in Afghanistan so far. 1/40th of just the unforseen increase in cost to just little old Canada. We've likely spent more on breakfast sausages for the troops! Now if your argument is based on the premise that AI would be much better at it than our military, and that we should therefore use our own cash to out-source prisoner tracking to them..........hmmmm
  66. Brian Dondo from Canada writes: I wonder if Koring had second thoughts bringing Tinsley's name into it. Canada's New Government is nothing if not consistent. and I mean that most sincerely.
  67. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes:
    http://www.espritdecorps.ca/inmatesincontrol.htm

    By Scott Taylor

    November 27, 2005

    ' Using the old adage 'If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em,' it would appear that the inmates have once again seized control of their own asylum. '

    ' Stay tuned. '

    Scott Taylor : Is it possible your article is biased ? Appears to be an honourable soldier with a huge backbone ? First time Esprit de Corps had the wrong slant on an issue ?

  68. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes:
    Mr. Dion : Should part of the Afghan extension deal be MPCC investigating Harper's ' Tiger Team ' being in control of all news out of Afghanistan ?

    Established by Parliament in 1998, the role of the MPCC is to provide for greater public accountability by the military police and the chain of command in relation to military police conduct and investigations.
  69. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Well Ralph, he sure is an unrealistic type. Yeah, I'd be all for re-opening them too. It's of far more of direct interest to decent, realistic Canadians than what happens to some yahoo who was shooting at our troops, waved the white flagn and got 'detained', then transferred to the care of his Government.
  70. Canada First from Canada writes: Tell the friggin watchdog to take a hike - we are at war.
  71. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Well cc if they( the leftys)keep complaining you might not see anymore prisioners.It would be easier to shoot or let them go then to detain them.
  72. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes: Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Good point cc but i dont think kenneth is dumb like some of the leftists here who think if they try to get as many scandels started they might get lucky with one of them. Personally i would like to open that adscam and income trust scam again and watch how many senior liebriel get nervous lol.
    Posted 13/03/08 at 8:27 AM EDT

    Right wing Conservative Judge Gomery is testifying against Harper's lack of action on accountability ? Stay tuned today . Spin that har de har .
  73. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: Bubble: At least I identify myself. Why haven't you got the guts to do so?

    If you know so uch about Westport, why don't you know Ducks is closed?
  74. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Lmao
  75. M McGeachy from Toronto, Canada writes: This is just what American governments do - lie and deceive in the name of 'national security.' I for one will take the advice of the venerable American Benjamin Franklin: 'He who would sacrifice liberty for security deserves neither.'

    Everyone knows that the Haperites knew they would be tortured, but we are all afraid to say anything for fear of being sued by the PM!

    For shame, my adopted country cannot recognise that it is turning in to the country I abandoned...
  76. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes: http://forums.macleans.ca/advansis/?mod=for&act=dis&eid=48 Gomeric wisdom Kady O'Malley March 13 , 2008 Well, unless there's a brewing partisan eruption that I don't know about - always a possibility in this town - that's exactly what I'll be doing later this morning, when the one and only Justice John Gomery goes before the Government Operations committee to deliver one of his trademark accountability smackdowns - and, in classic Freaky Friday style, this time it will be the Conservatives playing defence. The good judge, it seems, is still not satisfied with how Stephen Harper's government has responded to his litany of recommendations -- particularly those that would curtail the power of the Prime Minister's Office, which it's hard to deny has grown steadily more omnipotent under the post-Liberal regime. Expect lots of hemming and hawing and questions about the magical missing $40 million that the Tories insist the perpetually short on cash Liberal Party has squirreled away in a bank in the Cayman Islands, or under Kyoto's dog bed. Oh, the sponsorship scandal. Those were good times, right? Let's talk more about that, and less about -- you know, what's actually going on now, as far as centralization of control in the hands of the Smartest and Also Most Ethical Prime Minister in the History of Ever.
  77. Dan Green from Palm Beach Gardens Florida, United States writes: You folks are doing a magnificent job over there. One of the only countries who is a so called Nato member, that pulls its wait. With that said, this is not your typical peace keeping mission, of distributing candy, when the kids get out of school. Your dealing with barbaric islamic killers. basics is all these captured deserve. The minute they would be liberated, their job would be to cut some infedels throat, givien the chance. They also cannot be what we referr to as re-hahbilitated either. It is warm in Cuba, and food is okay.
  78. J Law from Canada writes: For those who think we are fighting boy scouts in Afganistan, we are not. Stop being so niave, stop being so terribly stupid and stop being in such a terrible rush to see us lose.

    Those who fight with self-imposed rules against an enemy who does not follow the same rules will lose. You fight to win and if that takes fighting dirty then fight dirty. People who fight to lose are called dead or at the very least vanquished.
  79. garlick toast from Canada writes: handing p.o.w.'s over to known torturers contravenes the geneva convention.will harper admit that his gov't. was alerted to this action or will he blame the military?
  80. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Why is it that so many right-wingers can't spell?
  81. Bobby Dy from Canada writes: 'Tell the friggin watchdog to take a hike - we are at war.' I imagine that Hitler had exactly the same thoughts as he marched Jews into the gas chamber.

    I find it hard to believe that people don't actually get it. 'Fighting to protect our way of life' means being ambassadors for our way of life abroad. That means that one of the costs of being a soldier is putting one's life on the line to project Canadian values. It is irrelevant if the second one's back is turned that same captive would slice your neck. It doesn't mean extending human rights to those that we like and removing them from our enemies. I imagine that the Taleban treat like-minded individuals very differently from those that they are trying to oppress as well. Do we simply adopt their tactics because 'this is war'? We can't project something that 'regular Afghans' will aspire to if we don't export Canadian values and protect human rights. Otherwise, all we are asking is for the Afghans to accept that the capitalist tyrant is better than the religious tyrant.

    If there are soldiers in Afghanistan that are unwilling to put their lives at risk then perhaps they shouldn't have volunteered to join the military or should have left the military before going. We can't be hypocrites and expect that the Afghans will adopt our ideals independent of how we actually practice.
  82. Durward Saar from Canada writes: What bloody non-sense this issue is.
    Our military is in a combat zone trying to stay alive and protect the Afghan people, it's neither their job or duty to even care what happens to detainies after they turn them over, they are not social workers.
    We know what the lefties poor little terrorists do if they capture someone, where is the outrage for that?
    Hell the left won't even call them terrorists.
    Who's side are the lefties on anyway?
  83. J M from Realityville, Canada writes:
    We're not fighting to help the Afghani people, we're fighting AGAINST the Afghani people. The Afghani fighters are just people who reject the imperialism of the West and the attempts by the US to gain control of their country for private commercial reasons. The story that we're there for humanitarian grounds is so worn that it's become transparent and we can see what the real agenda is. You don't help people by detaining and killing them.
  84. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Watch out ! The Association of Barstool Commandos is out in force TODAY ! 'Grrrrrrrrrrrrr . . . !'

    'Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Why is it that so many right-wingers can't spell?' . . . Well, Paul, maybe it's because they're so . . . well, YOU know.
  85. spicydoc--not left, not right, but part of the 'mushy middle', a place immune from bias and rhetoric, Canada writes:

    This is all partisan crap.

    If Martin and Graham were still running the show, the Afghan situation would be identical, but nobody would be talking about it.

    Somebody sit down with the good Mister Graham and ask him what he'd be doing differently.

    As for the 2 million this is gonna cost, I suggest we use the money to pay airfare, room and board for the rights people to go to 'Canadahar' and personally supervise the detainees themselves. This would be more cost-effective. Besides, if you want a job done properly, do it yourself.
  86. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ....this is a bloody shame....are these Canadian ideals?....this once proud land is being dragged thorugh the dirt by this gang of Neocon misfits.....are these the values we wish to impart on our youth?....we don't think so....
  87. Watson Jones from United States writes: If you can't beat them on the merits, have your mouthpiece ratchet up the rhetoric, yet another example of trying to make mountains from molehills. On the substance, those nations without the will to fight will watch their society become something unrecognizeable in terms of its laws, traditions and institutions. They will be dictated to and I am afraid this has already begun.
  88. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: J Law . . . YIKES ! Did you really just write that ?
  89. Linda Keens closet liberal the sequel starring Peter A Tinsley's oversight from Canada writes: J Law from Canada writes: For those who think we are fighting boy scouts in Afganistan, we are not. Stop being so niave, stop being so terribly stupid and stop being in such a terrible rush to see us lose.

    Those who fight with self-imposed rules against an enemy who does not follow the same rules will lose. You fight to win and if that takes fighting dirty then fight dirty. People who fight to lose are called dead or at the very least vanquished.
    Posted 13/03/08 at 9:05 AM EDT

    Do process endangers who ? Would you change your name to Jessy James ? Him I could worship as a hero ?

    Main Entry: pris·on·er
    Pronunciation: \ˈpriz-nər, ˈpri-zən-ər\
    Function: noun
    Date: 14th century
    1: a person deprived of liberty and kept under involuntary restraint, confinement, or custody; especially : one on trial or in prison
    2: someone restrained as if in prison

    These taliban are sooooooooo scary as compared to death row prisoners in North America . Maybe we should recall the jello types like Harper / Bush and assign death row guards to fight the war ?
  90. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Hey paul jones with a comment like that its not hard to figure out that your boot size is bigger than your iq.
  91. Gray Rabbit from Canada writes: The people in the picture are lining up for a Kraft durch Freude holiday
  92. spicydoc--not left, not right, but part of the 'mushy middle', a place immune from bias and rhetoric, Canada writes:

    Paul Jones--

    'I think they'd happily torture half the worlds population if they thought it would get them a Majority.'

    There's fun-and-games on this chatsite but I believe this accusation is in disgusting taste.

    I've alerted an editor. Interesting question will be if you pass the audit--maybe you will, judging by the other horrible things being said.
  93. Jimmy B from Canada writes: Only people responsible for the suffering of the Afghans is the Afghans themselves and their wonderfull rel1g1on of peace. Harper and not even jonny chretien are responsible for any of this. I agree, get the troops out because these people are worth sqwaut.
  94. Ralph green from nb from Canada writes: Lmao ed
  95. Mikey from the GWN ___ from Canada writes: So just how many investigations into the subject do we really need?

    Especially when this MPCC crusade is outside of it's mandate and will cost $2M.

    It's like the Nuclear Regulatory Agency deciding it has a right to investigate the seal hunt.

    CHeers

    Mikey
  96. Repeatedly Censored from Bushland, Canada writes: It is a source of utter despair to see how flippantly people treat matters of such profundity, and known to affect those involved for the rest of their lives! For a civilized country to be involved in an adventure where it cannot respect other people's human rights is for it to be involved in a failed adventure. The consequences will come back to haunt us, Canadians (soldiers, civilians, politicians, etc.), for decades to come. There is a very high individual (and social) price to be paid for not respecting human rights, be it by proxy. For an appreciation of what that price is, I recommend perusing David Grossman's 'On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society', Mahedy's 'Out of the Night', and Chris Hedges, 'War Is a Force that Gives Us Meaning'. One would not wish one's worst enemy that he/she need pay, some day, that heavy price. Those who treat human rights so lightly obviously have no idea what is the cost, to each and everyone of us, of our inhumanity.
  97. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: While the Conservatives may be the Government and the Canadian Army is fighting in Afghanistan, the Liberal opposition hacks still seem to be trying to run the country and continue to throw as much sand as possible into the Army's gears. Disgusting to say the least. Thanks goodness we don't have to rely on Canada's enrtitlement parties, Liberals and Tal i ban Jacks NDP to fight the battles of the poor and oppressed.