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More evidence of rapid glacier melt: UN

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 10:02 AM EDT 16/03/08

United Nations agency says 2006 saw record ice loss on 30 glaciers around the world ...Read the full article

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  1. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...It must be the fault of the Liberals....
  2. Dry Ice from Calgary, Canada writes: Interestingly if you compare these rates to those which were occuring as the ice sheets were receeding accross the prairies during the last ice age you will find that they are only disaapeearing at a rate of 1/200th of that about 13,000 to 14,000 years ago. The ice margin went from Central alberta to northern Alberta over less than 1000yrs. this gives a rate of dissappearance of several 100 meters per year......
  3. Midtown Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: If the glaciers continue to melt then sea level rises which means Victoria should be under water in 4 years. This is a good thing.
  4. GM Blogger from Canada writes: Dry ice. What is your point? You rambled all round around & all around. What is your point?
  5. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Global warming is getting so bad that penguins are catching on fire.
  6. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Found an interestig article titled:

    Deforestation: The hidden cause of global warming

    In the next 24 hours, deforestation will release as much CO2 into the atmosphere as 8 million people flying from London to New York. Stopping the loggers is the fastest and cheapest solution to climate change. So why are global leaders turning a blind eye to this crisis?

    The rampant slashing and burning of tropical forests is second only to the energy sector as a source of greenhouses gases according to report published today by the Oxford-based Global Canopy Programme, an alliance of leading rainforest scientists.

    Figures from the GCP, summarising the latest findings from the United Nations, and building on estimates contained in the Stern Report, show deforestation accounts for up to 25 per cent of global emissions of heat-trapping gases, while transport and industry account for 14 per cent each; and aviation makes up only 3 per cent of the total.

    Indonesia became the third-largest emitter of greenhouse gases in the world last week after the US and China.

    http://tinyurl.com/2h8gyb
    .
  7. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    .......Continued

    According to the latest audited figures from 2003, two billion tons of CO2 enters the atmosphere every year from deforestation. That destruction amounts to 50 million acres - or an area the size of England, Wales and Scotland felled annually.

    The remaining standing forest is calculated to contain 1,000 billion tons of carbon, or double what is already in the atmosphere.

    As the GCP's report concludes: 'If we lose forests, we lose the fight against climate change.'

    Standing forest was not included in the original Kyoto protocols and stands outside the carbon markets that the report from the International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) pointed to this month as the best hope for halting catastrophic warming.

    The landmark Stern Report last year, and the influential McKinsey Report in January agreed that forests offer the 'single largest opportunity for cost-effective and immediate reductions of carbon emissions'.
  8. EJ Ravensbud from Canada writes: As someone who surveyed glaciers in Alberta and B.C. in the 70s and 80s to determine ice gain or loss I find I find this article to be quite misleading. Glaciers have been receeding since the last ice age over 10,000 years ago. For example the Athabasca glacier in the Columbia Icefields in Jasper National Park in Alberta has receeded a distance of at least 1/4 mile from the edge of hwy 93 since the 1930s since I last viewed it in the 90s. It is probably much further back today. The toes of the glaciers are quite thin and can disappear rapidly. The middle and top of glaciers are very thick, often over 1000 feet. The melt in these areas is usually a foot or two every year. Melting usually starts in June and lasts until mid-September - 4 months maximum or a relatively short season. Until we have another ice age, which this winter seems like, the glaciers will keep melting. Some smaller glaciers will disappear over the next century while larger ones will survive and expand in the next ice age which will surely come. Dont worry people, there is still lots of ice to go around.
  9. Dry Ice from Calgary, Canada writes: GMBlogger - Since you were unable to comprehend I will explain again, 13000 years ago an over 1km thick sheet of ice vanished from the prairies at a rate of several hundred meters per year. today Ice is disappearing at a rate of 1-3m per year...
  10. Lindsay Patten from Moncton, Canada writes: People like BaB OmimO need to learn to read the articles they cite. From the report:

    The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the 16th warmest on record for the December 2007-February 2008 period (0.58°F/0.32°C above the 20th century mean of 53.8°F/12.1°C). The presence of a moderate-to-strong La Niña contributed to an average temperature that was the coolest since the La Niña episode of 2000-2001.

    So, it was the coolest since 2001, big deal. It was still the 16th warmest on record!
  11. John Connor from Canada writes: GM Blogger from Canada writes: Dry ice. What is your point? You rambled all round around & all around. What is your point?

    In a nutshell, and I paraphrase for the single minded, liberal, apologist, AGW, Suzukified-Goracle, apostles:

    'it ain't a big deal'

    End of story.
  12. V ADS from Canada writes: The rate of melting of the ice sheets covering most of Canada 8,000 to 10,000 years ago must have been extremely rapid, considering that these sheets were several miles thick and even covered much of the northern United States.

    If the pattern of glacial advances and retreats is repeated, as it has for millions of years of our current Ice Age, the ice will come again.
  13. Ian St. John from Canada writes: 'Dry Ice from Calgary, Canada writes: GMBlogger - Since you were unable to comprehend I will explain again, 13000 years ago an over 1km thick sheet of ice vanished from the prairies at a rate of several hundred meters per year. today Ice is disappearing at a rate of 1-3m per year... '

    Apparently you are a font of useless tidbits. Agriculture was in no way dependent on kilometer thicknesses of ice age ice sheets. What is imnportant to US is the reduction in water sources that feed spring planting from winter accumulations on mountains.

    Climate change has many effects. Apparently drying of the upper atmosphere (the most likely cause of the receeding mountain glaciers) is one of them and a very costly one. As the article points out, the melt of winter ice accumulation drives much of the 'year round' water sources and the food producttion they enable.
  14. Farm Boy from Big City, Canada writes: How much money do I have to give to the Suzuki Foundation in order to stop this? I feel so guilty!
  15. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: I hear you Rob, but, remember, the poles were once tropical rain forests.
  16. J L from Canada writes: Global Warming?.Tell that to the people of Eastern Ontario Quebec,and the mealtimes and particularly NFL/labrador.and those in the far North.Where according to many experts the Ice Caps have increased in size .Global Warming you say! Sounds and feels more like GLOBAL FREEZING!! Brrrrr!! Record snowfalls in Arizona(Tucson) and parts of the SW. oh yes indeed it's a sure sign of global, did someone say WARMING?

    1

    /
  17. The Bubble from Canada writes: The Global Warming lobby has been around for a while and is pretty good at being belligerant to all articles and politicians who would talk about the reality of global warming. The 'Friends of Science' as they're called, are funded by Exxon, or in Canada: Imperial Oil. They are a lobby group focussed on any government proposal that would reduce their ability to develop mainly the tar sands. They write the propoganda for the Fraser Institute and are the chief architects behind the demise of Kyoto in Canada. All of their 'science' has either been debunked or peer reviewed by only those paid by Exxon. 'Sallie Baliunas is a non-Canadian signatory to the deniers letter. She is a Harvard-Smithsonian Institute astrophysicist who has been giving global warming deniers scientific cover since the mid-1990s. She is a senior scientist at the George C. Marshall Institute (received $310,000 from Exxon Mobil). She co-wrote (with colleague Willie Soon, who did not sign the skeptics letter) the Fraser Institute pamphlet 'Global warming: a guide to the science.' (The Fraser Institute receives $60,000 a year from Exxon Mobil.) ' http://thetyee.ca/Mediacheck/2006/05/02/PaidtoDenyGlobalWarming/ 'Following an internal audit and review begun in March of 2007, the University determined that some of the research funds accepted on behalf of the Friends of Science 'had been used to support a partisan viewpoint on climate change' in a series of anti-Kyoto radio ads targeted at key Ontario ridings during the 2006 Canadian federal election campaign.' http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Friends_of_Science
  18. The Bubble from Canada writes: That first line should say 'Global warming denial lobby'
  19. The Bubble from Canada writes: Where did the liars go?
  20. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Q.If a theater is on fire , what do you call the person who yells ' it's safe ,go back to your seats '.
    A. a murderer

    Global climate deniers are really beneath contempt .Their amazing ego's paranoid delusions, and ignorance combine to make them the most loathsome of pests.
  21. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Global warming is getting so bad that penguins are catching on fire

    ----------------

    LOL. They should make that a headline in Pittsburgh :)
  22. Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: And what is the cause of deforestation, R. Carriere from Maritimes? Sooner or later we will come to realize that the market fundamentalism of Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek and their unlimited capitalism is driving people individually and nations collectively to burn up the very substance on which the economy rests, whether it be fisheries, water, oil, food, you name it. The name of the game is burn baby burn.
  23. Vic Hotte from Kettleby, Canada writes: Note some comments here about the differences between the loss of glacier ice now and 13,000 years ago. A very big difference is there are now millions and millions of people (housing, agriculture, industry) in such places as B.C., Alberta and California who are dependent on the decreasing water flow from glaciers in mountain ranges such as the Rockies and Sierra Nevada. No one knows how many people actually existed in these areas 13,000 years ago, but one guess-timate is about 1.5 million might have inhabited all of continental North America those many thousands of years ago. The modern situation gets more precarious as these areas keep adding more people.
  24. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: 'Global climate deniers'

    Is that like UFO existence deniers, Man walked on moon Hollywood movie denier, JFK assissination by LBJ denier?

    The average global temperate clearly have arisen in the past decades though not in 2007. The question is to what extent it is man made and what can be done about it at what cost?

    The advocates like Suzuki, Gore are like medieval Popes. Their preaching is divine and earth is not round.
  25. Don Bryant from Calgary, Canada writes: I'm sure David Suzuki and Al Gore and the half-witted lemmings that blindly follow their every blethering and every bleating will use this story to further their own fear-mongering agendas.
  26. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Global warming is just another Lefty hoax, designed to grab more taxes for the socialist state. As many brilliant posters have said, we're in danger of cooling, not warming.

    Since Canada has more oil than Saudi Arabia, we'll never run out. By driving more, we'll actually prevent another ice age from happening, by putting more CO2 into the atmosphere.
    We should be buying larger vehicles and driving more often to save the planet!
    I'm off to order another Hummer for my 120km daily commute.
  27. Ryan Lemay from Gatineau, Canada writes: Exponentially increasing population, to many SUV's, to many shopping malls selling sh*t made of petroleum. And everyone wants to live like a North American. Could the planet handle this enerygy intensive lifestyle? This planet would not survive very long If that is the scenario. Those dope smok en hippies from the 70's were probably right what we are doing in not sustainable, but hey who cares my oil company stocks that I invested in are doing great! They really are!
  28. The Bubble from Canada writes: The lobby for deniers had a meeting in New York at the beginning of this month: 'Probably the best-known speaker at the conference was Vaclav Klaus, Czech Republic President who, in his remarks, compared environmentalists to the communists that took over his country after World War II. He accused environmentalists of 'climate alarmism' and charged that they wanted 'to stop the economic growth, the rise in the standard of living (though not their own) and the ability of man to use the expanding wealth, science and technology for solving the actual pressing problems of mankind, especially of the developing countries.' '
    _______________________________________
    'He concluded by pointing out that it was necessary 'to restart the discussion about the very nature of government and about the relationship between the individual and society. We need to learn the uncompromising lesson from the inevitable collapse of communism 18 years ago. It is not about climatology. It is about freedom.' '
    _________
    http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/contributors/1567
  29. KSW livin'in from Canada writes: BaB OmimO informs us that 2008 is the coldest since all the way back to 2001. Oh WOW that must be proof that there is no AGW a whole seven years and we can base in the last two months.

    Do some research!
  30. CD W from Canada writes: umm it is 2008, day late , dollar short.
  31. A Allan from vancouver, Canada writes: Isn't it inconsiderate of the glaciers to melt and not provide our grossly excessive population with enough water to flush their toilets and water their lawns. How inconsiderate!

    God, we are the stupidest, most arrogant race of anything that has ever populated the earth! It's just all about us, isn't it?

    The earth's been warming for 15000 years. We're somewhere around 5000 years to the end of this warming cycle and then the ice (which won't have disappeared) will return with a vengence for around, oh I don't know, about 100,000 years. It will heat itself without our help or interference and we'd better get a handle on how to live with it, or we're going to annihilate ourselves competing for scarce resources. War is a much more viable scenario and we'd better start taking this possibility seriously.
  32. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: John Connor from Canada writes: Don't worry. I have the answer to our problems. Let's implement an International Carbon Credit Trading System, and just send 50% - 75% of our GNP to India, China, and the rest of the developing world...

    ---------------

    Count me in as receiving the money. I promise to hold my breadth for 1 minute every hour. Imagine the amount of carbon dioxide and hot air that will not be emitted !

    But seriously, we should tackle serious environment challenges like pollution, more money for renewable energy development. Just not this Kyoto religious undertaking.
  33. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: lots of moronic comments on here. read this:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm

    ------------------------

    I would not call that news, but rather a BBC opinion article.

    It has some good arguments, but it looks one sided with so called inputs from 2 people that may be on different side. It would have been different if the proponent of IPCC is then countered by the counterviews.
  34. Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: opinion based on fact, something you have failed to provide...
  35. John Connor from Canada writes: Don't worry. I have the answer to our problems.

    Let's implement an International Carbon Credit Trading System, and just send 50% - 75% of our GNP to India, China, and the rest of the developing world. That way we can pay to contimue with our lives, they can do the same at our expense and all will be well with the Earth.

    Birds will sing, skies will clear, temperatures stabilize, life will be perfect overnight.

    We'll hire Al Gore to broker the transactions, and every thing will be fine. Except that it won't do a damn thing to curtail emissions, it will make him rich, and serve to make the AGW proponents feel better while they are waiting in line at the soup kitchens.

    Those people are idiots in both of Canada's official languages.
  36. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: The Bubble - Prime Minister Harper was right when he said Canada was a 'second-tier Socialist country'. Just compare Canada and our neighbors in the US - the US is far superior in almost every way, and far more democratic.

    The tree-huggers and granola-munching wingnuts want to turn Canada into a Communist utopia.

    This is not the time for conservation and caution! It's time for us to unleash consumerism from its fetters and live large.

    Global Environmentalism = Communism
  37. The Bubble from Canada writes: Here's an idea; all the global warming deniers go into their garages with their cars and the garage door closed, start up their cars and see what happens.
  38. Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: Byron, what have you been smoking and where can I get some?
  39. The Bubble from Canada writes: You all see the language the deniers use? It's right out of the playbook, they've recently began a television ad program attacking the heck out of Gore. I've never even seen his movie but I can smell a liar when I see one.
    Geoffrey May, you might have misread my comment.
  40. Byron Rottweiler from Canada writes: Scared Yet Courageous - LOL. Just thought I'd spew some satirical jingoism...
  41. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: I believe Byron is being overly sarcastic or he is playing the role of agent provocateur
  42. The Bubble from Canada writes: The United States says their the most democratic but in reality they are an imperialist country engaged in controlling the planet.
    Monsanto doesn't want locally produced food
    Exxon wants all the oil
    The North American economy is in ruins
    The mid east wars are lost.
  43. John Connor from Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes: You all see the language the deniers use? It's right out of the playbook, they've recently began a television ad program attacking the heck out of Gore. I've never even seen his movie but I can smell a liar when I see one.

    You probably won't in British classrooms either. It's been banned.
  44. Archie Wellford from Canada writes: Yup, and since then we've had a year so cold that it wiped out all the global warming that has happened in the last 125 years. So what? So climate changes, and no matter wheather the current change is for the warmer ot the cooler, some fearmongering idiot is going to call it the end of the world. In reality, the climate changes at its own caprice and there's not a damn thing we can do about. However, in the meantime all the Suzuki groupies are gloating over the waste billions of dollars to tilt at windmills while millions of kids go hungry.
  45. The Bubble from Canada writes: What's wrong with being a second tier socialist country, it's worked great until Harper showed up.
  46. The Bubble from Canada writes: The British government is a little too afraid of the American government, not as bad as our government, but they are pretty tight.
  47. The Bubble from Canada writes: Archie is like a lot on the right who would use the argument of starving kids but would defend the executions of over a million Iraqis as justified.
  48. Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: Archie,

    go ahead and stick year head back in your globally cooled sandbox!!!
  49. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Geoffrey May from Canada writes: 'Q.If a theater is on fire , what do you call the person who yells ' it's safe ,go back to your seats '.
    A. a murderer

    Global climate deniers are really beneath contempt .Their amazing ego's paranoid delusions, and ignorance combine to make them the most loathsome of pests.'

    Q: What if the theatre ISN'T on fire, but a group of Chicken Little's yells 'FIRE' anyway? What do you call those people?

    A: Whining lefties.

    My observation of the vast majority of people who claim to believe in man-made global warming is that they whine and whine and whine, but never actually - y'know - DO anything. The lifestyles of the vast majority of these folks hasn't changed one iota. My favourite part is when the same people also cry about high oil prices. Shouldn't high oil prices reduce demand? Wouldn't that be a 'good thing' as far as the man-made global warming goes? Or is it that with oil prices so high, it's hard to load-on the taxes? It's that whole lefty 'profits bad, taxes good' thing, isn't it?
  50. The Bubble from Canada writes: I like the term global weirding, it seems to fit better anyway, witness the rare downtown storms in Hot Lanta.
  51. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: Geoffrey May from Canada writes: ...? Economics! not even a real science

    =========

    IPCC 2 included a detail economics assessment and economics is a branch of science.

    But if you take the 'con' out of economics and put it after whats remaining , what do you get? E-Nomics Con :)
  52. Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: Sweeney, you obviously not only live in Alberta, but were born there too, right?
  53. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Dry Ice from Calgary, Canada writes:

    '13000 years ago an over 1km thick sheet of ice vanished from the prairies at a rate of several hundred meters per year. today Ice is disappearing at a rate of 1-3m per year...'

    You don't need to have a PhD in climatology to understand that the transition from an Ice Age will result in rapid melting of glaciers in low-lying flat and inherently warmer locations like praires. It will be MUCH slower as the glaciers recede to higher and inherently cooler locations in the mountains . . . .
  54. Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes: 'United Nations agency says 2006 saw record ice loss on 30 glaciers around the world'

    Ah............... Ah............... this is 2008.
  55. L Harder from Canada writes: The blethering and bleating definately belongs to the denier crowd. They'll blether and bleat until after 30 years, they realize their pain is actually from refusing to adapt to a new world order where oil becomes more and more expensive. Wake up people, its not about global warming any more. That problem will resolve itself as we adapt to a post oil world. The oil companies want to hold on to the status quo for as long as possible, but clearly societies need to position itself for the future now.
  56. Steve Church from Canada writes: Scared put up a link that nets out some discussion lines pretty cleanly:- To repeat:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/629/629/7074601.stm To add:- http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/dn11462 Rach's attempt with the flat-earth insult sure backfires. The popes knew the world was round - 'Flat Earth' was American anti-papist (Potestants were left off) mythology from the 19th century (Washington Irving and others). Rott's political accusations are fine as long as the science fails - which it doesn't. The attempts here, to refute the GH Effect and the consequences of altering its composition, are mostly bad jokes. There's no real science behind comparing retreat rates at the end of an ice age to highland glacial retreats now. Ravens ramble that 'glaciers have been receeding for the last 10k years' is untrue: a 3000 year trend of slow accumulation reversed a few hundred years ago, accelerated during the 20th century, and a accelerated again during the last two decades. That's the point of the article - an anomaly is in progress and it goes lockstep with an alteration to the globe's atmosphere. The questions are - how fast will the effect come on; how bad will it get; and how long will it last once the pollution cleanup is forced upon us. The longer the delay, the greater the disruption, and the worse the economic cost of damage and cleanup. Oh, JL - its global warming, not global drying.
  57. One Eye Open from calgary, Canada writes: Dave Medich from Windsor, Canada writes: 'United Nations agency says 2006 saw record ice loss on 30 glaciers around the world'

    Ah............... Ah............... this is 2008.

    Yes, and in 2007 - 2008, we will see record growth of glaciers around the world. This year has already seen record snowfalls in the Rocky Mountains, as well as many other parts of Canada.
  58. Joe Bloggins from Canada writes: The UN has lied so many times that anything out of that corrupt organization cannot be believed. This is simply one more in the series of water torture that comes out of the UN once every two weeks. It is called propaganda and it is called fraud.
  59. The Bubble from Canada writes: The people most averse to changing their habits are the ones profiting the most from oil mainly although companies like monsanto would hate for people to buy their food locally. The population needs to be mobilized to start even baby steps now. Maybe we should all boycott Esso for starters. I still have gas in my car from July of last year. For those who criticize Gore:
    -----
    In fact, Al Gore has worked diligently to reduce his own carbon impact. After a thorough renovation of his house — complete with a fight to obtain zoning permission for solar panels — Gore has one of the first 14 homes in the United States to receive the LEED gold certification for efficiency and green practices. The renovations “cut the home’s summer electrical consumption by 11 percent compared with a year ago.”
    http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/10/cei-attacks-gore/
  60. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Scared Yet Courageous from Canada writes: Sweeney, you obviously not only live in Alberta, but were born there too, right?

    Nah - I wasn't born here...but I wish I had been. I LIKE it here ;)

    And, as an added bonus, the lefties get smashed flat, like clockwork, every provincial election. No provincial sales tax. And, there's actually a functioning economy. What's not to like?
  61. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes: ...In fact, Al Gore has worked diligently to reduce his own carbon impact. After a thorough renovation of his house — complete with a fight to obtain zoning permission for solar panels — Gore has one of the first 14 homes in the United States to receive the LEED gold certification for efficiency and green practices. ...

    ------------------------

    I wonder how much was spent out of his Nobel and royalty money to get this 'gold certification'. Can I get some too ? :)
  62. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Rachel..commenting.. , so you accept the conclusions of IPCC ?
  63. The Bubble from Canada writes: Damn, I guess one of the first casualty's of global warming will be building codes. It snows more in warmer temperatures. In Eastern Ontario, I went through 17 days without power ten years ago and I've noticed the temperature in this area is always hovering around zero which is the temperature where ice rain will fall. Last year I had finished off cleaning up after ten years of pruning my back yard and then I had my own mini ice storm last year and almost every tree left in my back yard fell. Luckily my neighbor gave me a hand because he needed the firewood it was a mess.
    When I think back to that time I realize it was a turning point for me. I have nothing really to live for except mine and others' kids, this is what drives me. I'd like to know what drives the deniers on here really. What would make you become so angry about trying to reduce CO2 if it's not your livlihood as can be seen from the posters claiming to be from Alberta.
  64. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Scientists need to realize that articles like this detract from efforts to act on global warming because they fail to set out the significane of glaciers receding 1.5 metres in a year. An estimate of how many years of glacial water necessary for communities are left in major regions would help explain their concerns. Setting out solutions is axiomatic. Global warming can be stopped by tackling CO2 problems on several fronts. Ending the production of beef (which causes heart disease anyway), setting goals to end the consumption of all fossil and bio fuels, harnessing wind, solar, water and even human activity to create energy, and filtering all air emmissions would go a long way to ending the problem altogether. These basic steps would also improve our health, fatten our wallets, remove military incentives for war and preserve and improve our wonderful planetary environment. We should actually go further and work to reclaim deforrested lands, especially in third-world countries, refill drained aquifers and developed desalination projects on a massive scale to provide every person with clean drinking water. With clean water, the world's poorest could build strong economies and contribute to the world's wealth.
  65. Tristram Shandy from london ontario, Canada writes: Emma Hawthorne's ideas may be good ones, but what are the chances? Damned little.
  66. The Bubble from Canada writes: Think of how far the 700 billion spent on the Iraq war would have gone to desalinization or windmills or solar power.
    I priced out the little windmills crappy tire sells at about 7 grand to completely set up. That would be enough for one million American homes if you didn't get a deal on a million of them. In Canada we would have been able to put 600000 of them on people's houses. Talk about losing time and money.
  67. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Sweeny Todd , please name the environmetalist who objected to higher oil prices , what I find bizarre are the people who accept rising energy for company profits , but freak at the idea of a carbon tax.

    Environmentalists aren't the problem , accelerating greenhouse gasses are.

    I don't now any environmentalist whiners either , I think what your doing is called 'projecting', an attitude that before the birth of psychiatry , it was called ' kill the messanger'
  68. The Bubble from Canada writes: Sorry, I just checked the numbers, Americans would be able to put a hundred million windmills up. That would probably do the country.
  69. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Tristram Shandy from london ontario, Canada writes: 'Emma Hawthorne's ideas may be good ones, but what are the chances? Damned little.'

    Ya - then we call all hold hands, and sing, and sway - just like back in the '60s. Ya ... it'll be just great. We can all live in communes. Oh wait. That got tried, and it didn't work back then, either. Bummer...
  70. Durward Saar from Canada writes: Pure BS, some glaciers are receeding others are growing, depends on what side of the equater your studying.
    Glaciers in the antartic are growing while those in the arctic are receeding.
    If we take into account the sun's activity, the Earths tilted/wobbling axis and climate history over more than a recorded history which is not even a blink in earth life terms than we find low and behold nothing untoward is occurring and people just need a cause to give meaning to their pathetic lives, a certain amount of people always think the end is near.
    The basis of their fear is CO2 causing global warming, this is an impossibility but hey cult mentality never ever needs facts to claim the sky is falling, particularly if they can build in a punishment for everyone else so we all can be forced to share the kool-aid of their delusional fantasy.
  71. Hans Ulster from From the heart of Alberta, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Global warming is getting so bad that penguins are catching on fire.

    ----------

    I done seen that too. LOL.
  72. The Bubble from Canada writes: I can't believe how terrible the spelling and grammar is collectively of the deniers. It shows what low intelligence you need to actually think that the oil companies should be left to business as usuall.
    Boycott Esso.
  73. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Repent.
    Repent.

    The end of the world is coming.

    Repent.
  74. Free Spirit from Halifax, Canada writes: Bubble, your calculation is wrong.

    $700 billion is enough to buy a $7,000 Canadian Tire wind generator for 100 million homes. With a population of 300 million that is likely every home in the USA.

    Actually the US will eventually spend $2 trillion on the wars. With that amount so they could probably have built enough wind generators to provide electricity for every home in the USA. They could then charge for that wind generated electricity and make money on their $2 trillion investment.
  75. The Bubble from Canada writes: No one gets madder than a denier who is faced with the truth. It must be like someone coming to the realization there is no existential being known as god. It's probably a good thing that revelations take time for the slower of the population to absorb.
    The line of hatred and attack they use on people like me are like a prayer repeated. Like the priest on The Simpsons sticking his fingers in his ears and singing Bringing in the Sheaves' when his daughter is confessing her sins to him.
  76. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Bubble - you would be well advised to proof-read posts that criticize the spelling of others. usuall???
  77. Rachael .... commenting from .. Hollywood North, Canada writes: Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Rachel..commenting.. , so you accept the conclusions of IPCC ?

    ============

    Only read synopsis and some extract. Reasonable content from mainstream scientific group, but I still remain a cautious skeptic, especially on the economics side.

    If we have unlimited budget and dont have to worry about our other national priorities, sure we can do a Kyoto. I rather see our money spent on things like making alternative fuels more competitive.
  78. The Bubble from Canada writes: The war unfortunately is not about anything but profit for American industry.
    People need to evolve and these deniers want to shut everyone up, they could care less about the truth.
  79. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Sweeny Todd , please name the environmetalist who objected to higher oil prices , what I find bizarre are the people who accept rising energy for company profits , but freak at the idea of a carbon tax.

    Environmentalists aren't the problem , accelerating greenhouse gasses are.

    I don't now any environmentalist whiners either , I think what your doing is called 'projecting', an attitude that before the birth of psychiatry , it was called ' kill the messanger'

    No - actually there are people - Jack Layton comes to mind - who I've seen on TV news clips decrying the cost of oil and later - in the same week, mind you - wailing about man-made global warming and how we've got to change how we live. So which is it?

    What about all of those people who tell pollsters that 'man-made global warming' is a HUGE concern to them, then drive off ALONE in their SUVs? Check out the traffic on the 400 series highways around Toronto. Nobody is giving up their cars. Look at the huge houses that keep going up - all with central air conditioning. These same houses are filled with cheap crap that was made in China, in factories using cheap coal-fired electric power. I guess smokestacks are only bad, if they're in Canada.

    The vast majority of Canadians talk the talk, but totally fail to walk the walk. 'Whining hypocrites' is the term I use. If the shoe fits, wear it.
  80. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Bubble, they once again have spelling bees in elementary schools. You'd be well advised to do a lot of studying before deciding to enter one :-)
  81. bruce riley from spruce grove, Canada writes: The Bubble is a perfect alarmist, goofy to a fault and can't spell, what would life be like without these people, oh to dream......
  82. Terry Quinn from Canada writes: Of course the melting in Canada comes from the hot air expelled by the Harpercrite deniers. However, his poll numbers have cooled and as a result we in the Liberal east had a colder more snowy winter.
    Whatever shall we do....it could not have been La nina could it.

    the denierds are also the ones who want to change the world political systems to have right wing dictators who can then control the weather better.

    To dry ice.....it would have been better to take your meds b/f posting such nonsense. As someone noted there were not the agri concerns a million years ago and there were only a very few million people on earth at most as opposed to 6 billion now most of whom live in areas that are deprived of the basics in life.
  83. The Bubble from Canada writes: I like it when the con call centre comes at me. Listen boys, no one could have a more lower point of view than I for your stupid propoganda and the personalities you must have to be able to do what you do. Fire away, it makes me feel good that you and your hateful logic is threatened. Do you guys have to wear suits to work on Sundays?
  84. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Am I a denier?
    No.
    I am rational.

    Levels of CO2 and the global temperature have been much higher than today for the last 600 million years.
    We are at a 250 million year low for atmospheric CO2 (ten times higher in the past) and for global temps, now averaging 12C when in the past it averaged 22C.

    We're closer to returning to an ice age than we are to a planetary tropical zone.

    As well, there is NO co-relation between atmospheric CO2 levels and planetary temperature increases.
    The geological record proves that.

    As well, if it were true, increased CO2 levels would lead to greater biodiversity.
    Greenhouse growers pump CO2 into their greenhouses, precisely because they get more yield from their crops.
    Plants love CO2.

    Global warming/climate change hysteria is precisely that.

    It is histrionic.

    To base economic policy on a histrionic precept is irresponsible.
  85. Vern McPherson from writes:
    They are a bunch of liars. It's really cold outside ................
  86. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: OHMIGOD! :-) Bubble just opened his mouth, took out his foot, and put the other one back in. :-) Yeah, maybe dishwashers are fattening. :-) They also are the main cause of GHG's :-)

    But seriously, I don't think we should ban dishwashers Bubble. I mean, mine's only 57 and got some good years left in her :-) Not fair to ban her.
  87. The Bubble from Canada writes: I'm not alarmist, unless you guys feel your wallets are being threatened.
    Michael Sharp is GlynMhor of Skywall, who is an oil executive and an American immigrant.
  88. The Religious Left from Kingston, Canada writes:
    You either believe in the scientific process and trust that global warming is occurring. Or you believe that you have the knowledge to understand climate change from the little tidbits of info you have, and a vast scientific conspiracy is happening to try and fool you.
  89. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Uh, Vern, it's 5'C on my back porch. I don't really classify that as cold..... do you? :-)
  90. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Bubble's posts are that much more enjoyable when he is sober.

    I disagree - I prefer him after he's had a few. The paranoia really shines through. Vern just becomes incoherent, so it's not much fun to trades posts with him when he's in his cups. :)
  91. Jean Malice from Fight Global Walarmism and Carbon taxes, Canada writes: When I saw this sybbilin report from Associated Press, I knew it would be immediatly picked up by the Globe and Mail and put in a place of choice. I also knew that the usual Global Warmist, envy-ronmentalists would say 'we told you so' and that anyone using a car, fridge, furnace etc... without a deep sense of guilt would be labelled a 'denier': If Achim Steiner says Galciers are retreating faster it MUST be the truth. Well the problem is that no map is offered to the vulgum pecus. They probably think we can't read maps... The problem for AGW is that there are glaciers that are also gaining ice. The problem is that Achim Steiner and the UN and IPCC don't explain the mechanism of Glaciation and as a consequence, our warmists here are just doing what they do best: take a UN statement at face value and parrot. Last time I checked snow that leads to ice accumulation is still a meteorological phenomenon. It is indeed a contrast between the reality of roofs collapsing under snow in Quebec and the pronouncement of the UN... Understanding of Meteorology available and provided by climatologist Marcel Leroux is explaining atmospheric circulation and how this machine works during interglacial and glacial periods. Moreover he explains the mechanism that leads to snow/ice accumulation and some of the paradoxal aspect of a glaciation that would see regions -including glaciers- along the warm air advection paths that would selectively warm up while in fact a considerable quantity of precipitable air is returned to the poles where it creates snow accumulations becoming ice. The paradox is: the stronger the gradient between cold polar air and tropical air is, the stronger the weather will be returning stronger flows to the poles. If Achim Steiner had published is map of the '30 glaciers' we would find most of them along those advection returning air path like in some part of Andes, Alaska, West Antarctica, some parts of Alps... Globe: that's information vs your AP propaganda.
  92. The Bubble from Canada writes: The problem with using wind or solar is really one of economics, but only for the rich.
    The old way of economics means someone owns something and can continually sell it to you like heroin or oil. Once you're addicted, you have to come back to the source. Why the oil companies want to keep the status quo and muscle in on Ontario's nuclear industry (GE is working hard at this) is because the people who control now want to keep controlling. If we all got of the energy grid, they have nothing to sell us and they're power is lost.
    It's that simple.
    Call me more names guys it gets me excited.
  93. Durward Saar from Canada writes: The Bubble, Good name as you seem to be living in one.
    When you discover some facts to confront the reality based arguments of the non-cultists you let us know.
    Truth is what you believe it to be, fact is truth laid bare of belief.
    Fact is the very basis of your argument is a fallacy.
    The globe is not warming, CO2 does not cause warming(quite the opposite) and the glaciers are not all melting away. (My personal favorite.. drowning polar bears)...polar bears that can swim for 200 miles seldom drown ).
    Saying something often enough will fool the fools but most of us need more than conjecture to become fear-mongering cultists.
    Wacked theory after wacked theory that gets debunked as fast as your cultists create them ain't going to cut it.
  94. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: Sweeney, that makes 2 of us :-) Definitely provide us with laughs :-)
  95. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    'The Bubble from Canada writes: I'm not alarmist, unless you guys feel your wallets are being threatened.
    Michael Sharp is GlynMhor of Skywall, who is an oil executive and an American immigrant.'

    Michael Sharp is Michael Sharp of Victoria BC.
    My family has lived in North America since 1660.

    Simply put, the geological record shows that there is NO co-relation between rising atmospheric CO2 levels and global temperature increases.

    We are at a 250 million year low for both.

    It's supposed to get warmer.

    This is where true denial is manifested when basic non-refutable facts are presented.

    Spare me your hysteria.
  96. Dr Demento from Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes:

    'Michael Sharp is GlynMhor of Skywall, who is an oil executive and an American immigrant. '

    While I may disagree with GlynMhor of Skywall's opinion on Climate Chnage, he has stated in numerous posts that he grew up in Pinawa Manitoba, on the Canadian Shield banks of the Winnipeg River.
  97. The Bubble from Canada writes: Outside the spelling and terribly obvious need to confuse people into thinking you understand atmospheric convection, Jean Malice, you win for making me laugh the most spontaneously today.
  98. Larfing Outloud from Virgin Islands (British) writes: It is entirely possible that our collective CO2 emissions are putting off an impending ice age. I don't suppose the UN has considered that possibility.

    Besides, anything that brings the beach closer to my back door.........