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A closer look at numbers reveals NDP weakness

GLORIA GALLOWAY

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 12:39 AM EDT 21/03/08

Buried in the subtext of Monday's by-election battles between Liberals and Conservatives was a secondary duel that appeared to leave much NDP blood on the floor. ...Read the full article

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  1. Dick Bakker from Ottawa, Canada writes: The Greens are drawing support from 4 groups: the Conservatives, the Liberals, the NDP and the "never voted before". This broad appeal, and hard work, is why they are the only party showing percentage growth in Canada right now. The media is missing the boat by focusing on their growth relative to the NDP. The Greens are not really a threat to the NDP. As the UofO Prof says the NDP have strong pockets of supporters in certain areas of the country (that see themselves as socialist / progressives). The Greens may appeal to a few of these people, but their economic tax shifting, carbon tax orientation will scare these 'soft socialists' away. The Green party economic (and enviornmental) policies are actually more interesting to people who 'perceive themselves' to be fiscally oriented / conservative in orientation. There is a reason why in the last federal election the province that supported the Greens the most was Alberta! and in the last Ontario election the Greens got their strongest support in 'conservative' rural ridings, 33% in the Owen Sound riding. Lets have a journalist at the Globe write about this... The Greens will be coming up the middle. Their key issue is how do they get concentrated support, but the key point is they are drawing support from all areas....
  2. Michael Powers from Canada writes: Looks like Jack has the NDP going in the wrong direction.
  3. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: In the provincial election I heard for the first time the platform from the green party. I like their platform around poverty issues, so I voted green. The environment is a very important issue and the degradation of our environment is in direct relationship with health issues. The NDP needs to go back to its roots, the working people. Maybe I am tired of the same old, same old. This country needs a change.
  4. Scott McLean from writes: NDP are Communists, plain and simple. The Communist doctrine has failed in each and every application. Canadian Progressives appear to be one of the last groups on this planet to recognize this fact.

    Greens? Please. They are and will always be a fringe group. Local meetings held in the closest Austin Mini Cooper parked next to a dumpster for their dining pleasure.
    You might as well find a bigger looser for a leader that at least has some form of "curb appeal", as May does not really inspire prolonged gazing without your eyes becoming irritated.
  5. Always Right from Canada writes:

    You may not agree with his policies (which I certainly do not), but at least the guy and his party show up for crucial votes and represent their constituents in parliament. Isn't that why we vote for and pay our political representatives? Someone should remind the Liberals.
  6. john shantz from Canada writes: ....its a sad comment when a reader (Scott Mclean) measures a leader by her physical appearance. India, Israel and the UK have all had very successful female leaders who weren't beauty queens.
  7. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: I watched an TV interview with Jack (still swanning around Washington pretending he is a voice for Canada) Layton. It was a delight watchging his red faced futile effort to put a a good light on the latest humiliation to his party. The best he could offer was to inject the red herring of the Outremont win into the conversation. The guy and his party are in deep do do and it's getting deeper. Couldn't happen to more deserving people.
  8. Harvey Mushman from cambridge, Canada writes: I'm so sick of Jack and his "working families" schtick that he keeps repeating over and over and over again like a skipping record. But...then again with Dion moving the Liberals left of centre it will set up quite a nice vote splitting arrangement between the Lib's, NDP and Greens. Already the Lib's are blaming their razor thin win in Quadra on the Greens...look for more vote splitting and Conservatives coming up the middle in the next general election.
  9. The Conservative Centrist from Canada writes: I'm torn as to wether or not May should be part of the next leaders debate. On one hand, not.... greens don't have a sitting member, doesn't matter what their overall % of the vote is. On the other hand, if she does debate, she just might convince enough Dippers and Libs ( Dippers in formal dress) to vote Green, thus ensuring the Cons candidate comes up the middle. Decisions, decisions :-)
  10. Robert Wiseman from Scarborough, ON, Canada writes: I think that the byelections have limited value in reading the future. Turnout was very low. In a general election many more of us will be engaged and interested in the result. The Liberals could run a dog in the two Toronto ridings and still win so talking about the results as somehow predictive is nonesense. As for the green party, anyone who looks at their economic platform won't be impressed unless they are conservatives, so the real danger is to the right wing in this country. Why do you think the Liberals in B.C. did the carbon tax...surely not out of concern about the NDP.
  11. garlick toast from Canada writes: may has a good chance at mackay's seat. n.s. voters are p.c.'s.they no longer have a party and are probably inclined to spank the cons. for their bad manners.
  12. J. Kenneth Yurchuk from Toronto, Canada writes: John Shantz writes: its a sad comment when a reader (Scott Mclean) measures a leader by her physical appearance. India, Israel and the UK have all had very successful female leaders who weren't beauty queens.

    ___________________________________________________________

    Don't worry about Scott, he thinks HE'S a beauty queen. Eye of the beholder and all that.
  13. sam themacman from Waterloo, Canada writes: Complacency is a killer. The NDP by not putting in the effort and resources in these by-elections have told the country loud and clear "We are a fringe party", whereas the Greens have stated, "We are a party with a different vision, that has compassion and care for people and the environment, and a better way to do government, than the same old, same old." The Greens will make inroads with former Conservatives and Liberals, and will wean away people from the NDP who were never the radical kind of NDPer. The NDP should be concerned. They just told the rest of us, where Liberals and Conservatives are strong, that our ridings will not be contested by them.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Thanks for the advanced warning. Now if you don't like Liberal, Conservatives or the NDP, you have another more viable choice.
  14. god bless canada from Canada writes: i put the greens with the rino party. same clowns.and whats this about ms may running as a dog in toronto or did i read that wrong opps she is dions lap dog thats it
  15. Gordon Franks from Canada writes: Don't under estimate the value of by-elections to the Green Party. If would-be NDP voters start to feel that the Greens have just a good a chance as the NDP in a General Election and are becoming a legit political party they may move over to them and split the left wing vote even more than they did in the last election. It's unlikely the Greens will ever a win a seat but they could devastate the NDP vote.
  16. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Let's examine the NDP in a non-judgmental, objective light.
    The NDP suck.

    Next topic please.
  17. Murray Richardson from Canada writes: In the last three years, Jack Layton has become a CPC attack dog against the Liberals. It was the NDP that brought down Paul Martin's government and allowed the CPC to form a minority government. Since that time, the main target of NDP criticism has been the LPC. Oh yes, the NDP periodically initiates a "no confidence" motion in the House and votes against the Harper Government, but only when they are sure thar the vote won't carry. Layton and his party have become surrogates for the CPC. I guess voters have decided to support the real thing rather than a surrogate. Hence, the decline in NDipper support at the polls.
  18. David Jenkins from Kelowna, Canada writes: After a lifetime of voting (Progressive) Conservative, I will be voting Green at the next election. It won't make a difference to the outcome here in Kelowna as a Conservative victory is a given. However, if more of us vote this way, perhaps the major parties will get the message that they are no longer acceptable.

    Another tactic for those who want to vote 'None of the above' is to vote, but enter a spoiled ballot. If 15 - 20% of a riding's vote were in this category, again it would send a clear message to the fools who are currently running the HoC.

    The worst thing any of us can do is to stay home and not vote - that only plays into the hands of the established parties. Vote Green or spoil your ballot, but register your opinion loud and clear! Remember Plato's warning, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men."
  19. Hung Long from Hong Kong writes: Discredited NDP leaders can always opt for the Liberal party.
  20. god bless canada from Canada writes: The worst thing any of us can do is to stay home and not vote - that only plays into the hands of the established parties. Vote Green or spoil your ballot, but register your opinion loud and clear! Remember Plato's warning, "The price good men pay for indifference to public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Posted 19/03/08 at 11:55 AM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment WELL I DO AGRE ON SOME OF YOUR POINTS VOTE .THERE HAS GOT TO BE A PARTY THAT ARE CLOSE TO ONES IDEAS AS WE HAVE A VERY LARGE SELECTION HERE IN CANADA. BUT ON YOUR SECOND POINT SPOIL THE VOE DOES NOTHING . WHAT DOES IT PROVE ONE I GUESS IS THAT YOU ARE TO STUPID TO FILL OUT A FORM SO MABY YOU CAN NOT READ ENGLISH SO MABY WE NEED PICTURES INSTEAD. TO YOU WERE JUST TO LAZY TO GET TO KNOW WHAT EACH PARTY STANDS FOR SO AGAIN COMES BACK TO STUPID PEOPLE.OR IS A PROTEST VOTE WELL A PROTEST VOTE WORKES BETTER IF IT COUNTS FOR SOMETHIN. BY VOING FOR THE GREEN IS JUST LIKE SPOILING YOUR VOTE THEY ARE AS THE SAME CLASS AS THE RHINOPARTY AND NDP,LIB AND GREEN MAY AS WELL JOIN TOGETHER AS I DONT SEE MUCH DIFFERENCE.I STILL FEEL VOTERS SHOULD BE PAID $50.00 CASH FOR VOTING BUT MUST NOT SPOIL THERE VOTE. I MYSELF FEEL THIS WOULD UP OUR VOTING TO 97 % OF ELIGABLE VOTERS THEN WE WILL SEE WHO THE REAL WINNERS ARE OR START FINEING PEOPLE WHO SKIP OUT ON THE VOTE. WELL THATS FOR REG ELECTIONS BUT COME TO THINK ON THAT MABY PARLIMENT SHOULD START FIGHNING MP WHO DO NOT VOTE SAY A DAYS PAY FOR EVERYTIME THE DECIDE NOT TO VOTE. HOW CAN THEY SAY WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH VOTER TURNOUT WHEN THE LIBERALS ARE SHOWING VOTING IS NOT REALLY NESSASSARY
  21. tom h from Canada writes: Let Elizabeth May into the leaders' debates for the next federal election, and watch how much Green support grows.
  22. Duane Freemantle from writes: It looks more like the Conservatives are going in the wrong direction. The Green parties continued growth is because of environmental issues, this is not the core of the NDP party. Votes are viewing environmental issues as more important, and feel as the Green party grows in support that it may actually win a seat. Parties grown out of discontent with the major parties. The Reform party and the Bloq are two parties that have grown because out of vote discontent.
  23. jason green from writes: Ever notice how the Country eventually adopts many of the core NDP ideas without actually electing them: gay marriage, environmental stewardship, health care, employee and consumer protections -- all germinated from the NDP when idiots like Harper were denigrating their ideas.

    We need the NDP -- especially Harper. They let him know him what he is going to believe in 20 years
  24. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: The one trick pony Green party is stealing votes from the NDP and Liberals. Life is good.
  25. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Osama Bin Layton has been down in the US for the last couple of days. Is he looking for a new job? The one he currently holds has a "best before date" on it, and I think it is long past.
  26. Javahead Joe from Victoria, Canada writes: Hey David from Kelowna,

    I am a homeless former PC too, but I don't think that voting Green is a wasted vote even in a stronghold of another party. Remember that the party you vote for now gets $1.75 per vote cast in the federal election. The Green Party has broad but diffused support across the country and every vote they receive helps them to spread their message. Don't spoil your ballot. Give your support to the party you believe deserves the financial support even if they can't win in your riding.

    Cheers,

    JavaheadJoe
  27. John Northey from Georgetown, Canada writes: I was a strong PC voter for years but the last federal and last provincial election I switched to Green. Why? The PC/CPC are not true economic conservatives. They cut taxes for those who support them, spend money on those ridings that support them, act generally like Liberals actually.

    Meanwhile the Greens are for tax shifting. Cut income taxes and put taxes on items that have high external costs - namely pollution. Up the cost of polluting so that it covers the clean up costs and we'll be in a much better position overall as a nation. The CBC and many others keep saying Greens are stealing from NDP/Liberals but in truth it is the smart Conservative voters who will be shifting to the Greens first.
  28. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: John Northey: You are dreaming in technicolor if you think that the Greens will cut your net taxes. The same can be said for the NDP, and the Libs. They will loudly tout that they want to cut personal taxes. WOW!!! That would be nice, but at what cost? They will clearly make up for every penny they take directly from you paycheque, by taking it stealthily from you by others means. Taxing carbon, taxing pollution, taxing corporate profits, and anything else perceived as evil only gets passed on to consumers, and we pay it through increased costs. The Greens and NDP can say and do whatever they want knowing full well that they will never hold the levers of finances in this country. The Liberals say whatever they want to get into power, and then fail to honour their promises once elected. Remember the Liberal "Red Books"? Not worth the paper they were printed on.
  29. Anna Elizabeth from Canada writes: Does anyone know, besides the environment, what the greens stand for, as I think they are Conservative in their ideas.
  30. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy

    They can propose whatever they want.
  31. David Jenkins from Kelowna, Canada writes: Tom H: yes, Elizabeth may must be in the debates, there is no logical reason to oppose this.

    Java: I agree, it is better to vote for someone than to spoil the ballot. I would just like there to be an option for those who genuinely cannot vote for any party, other than to stay home. I will definitely be voting Green in Kelowna: the last Green candidate was an articulate, bright younger person of the type we desperately need in public life. With the two main party candidates, you had to hold a mirror under their noses to see if there was any sign of life.

    John N: again, I agree. I have talked to several other traditional PC voters in Kelowna who are disgusted with Harper and crowd and who are seriously looking at the Greens.
  32. harry carnie from Northern, B.C., Canada writes: NDP =weakness?= Jack Layton

    Liberals = no credibility=Dion

    Green = impractical ideas=no credibility

    Adds up to Harper Government(possibly another minority)
  33. Dat Guy from edmonton, Canada writes: Layton is proving less revelant in the big picture as his party just votes against everything even if they were asking for it in previous months.If I here Layton say " working families" anymore I will scream. I don't know what that means when he have had tax breaks given to us.
  34. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: Just the fact that around 10% of the population voted Green last Fed election should ensure a spot in the Leaders Debate.
  35. David Gibson from Hamilton, Canada writes: "None of the above?" Yes indeed. More to the point: the problem is the party system itself. Partisan politics are a disease. Nobody asks, on the ballot, "Do you want to keep the party system?" The question not being asked, nobody answers. Instead, you get a semi-permanent minority government- not necessarily a bad thing - parties like the NDP becoming irrelevant, and the Greens becoming more popular just because they are [at least temporarily] seen as being on the outside. Thus will our politics continue to be garbled drivel, directionless, flaccid, and non-objective. Our national canvas looks like an accident with a paint mixer.
  36. Paul Jones from kitchener, Canada writes: The NDP arent weak - they're completly irrelevent.
  37. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring, Canada writes: It's interesting to hear the Conservatives accuse the Liberals, the NDP and the Greens of fiscal irresponsibility or lack of credibility, or both. Steve's latest jabs at the Liberals as being 'poor fiscal managers' is pretty incredible; whatever you might think about the Liberals, they did manage to eliminate the deficit.

    And this from the Conservatives, who spent $189 million to send 17 tanks to Afghanistan that couldn't be used in the summertime, to fight in George Bush's stupid, unwinnable war.

    I've had it with strategic voting and am voting Green in the next election. Even if they haven't a hope of electing an MP, they're more than just an environmental party and their policies are practical, sensible, and address issues that I care about. If you continually vote for the lesser of two evils, don't be surprised if you end up with evil.
  38. J. Weatherman from Richmond Hill, Canada writes: This has nothing at all to do with the NDP. These were by-elections in seats Liberals had won not 27 months ago with, in some cases 50 or more percent of the vote. NDP supporters aren't dumb, they just stayed home.

    But the media are missing the real story here.

    Why are the Liberals evaporating in western Canada? They lost their Saskatchewan seat and came within a wisker of losing Vancouver-Quadra - their safest seat west of Ontario.

    Just like he isn't in his home province, Dion is not catching on in the west. If the Liberal party can't grow outside Ontario, they are sunk.
  39. Vote NDP in the next federal/provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: This article is flawed!

    The NDP has gained momentum and will gain momentum as soon as the Liberals will stop voting with the Conservatives.

    Just look at the victory in Outremont riding of Quebec. Expect more NDP seats won in the next federal election
  40. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Low voter turnout is the real story . I don't think the Greens took votes from any of the other parties, the voters who voted for them would have stayed home if not for the Green option.

    Harper and Layton will fight Elizabeth May being allowed in the debates , because they know that if Canadians could see her side by side with them , she'd be the next Prime Minister, and Dion wouldn't mind.

    watch her recent speeches on Youtube
  41. J. Bergin from Canada writes: Mr Layton, Canadians expect a lot more from a leader than spouting off on helping the homeless and health care.....but that's all we ever seem to hear from you and for the most part.....we are tired of it.
  42. Goose Bay Resident Canada from Canada writes: Scott McLean from writes:You might as well find a bigger looser for a leader that at least has some form of "curb appeal", as May does not really inspire prolonged gazing without your eyes becoming irritated.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So Scott who do you think is prettiest Harper or Dion?
  43. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    The Greens can have a say in the debates when they win a seat.

    Until then the Rhinos have as much right to be in the debates as the Greens.

    End of story.
  44. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    The Greens can have a say in the debates when they win a seat.

    Until then the Rhinos have as much right to be in the debates as the Greens.

    End of story.

    ==============================
    Why is that? If this is free and democratic society then why shouldn't all parties that are running be part of a debate?
  45. G len from halifax, Canada writes: Vote NDP, you are right about the NDP gaining momentum. A falling rock also gains momentum, right up to the end. I can't wait to hear Jack go 'splat'. Kinda like that " Jack Splat". It's got a nice ring to it.

    Pirates of the Commons, led by Captain Jack Splat
  46. Hairy Wrangellian from Saltspring, Canada writes: This is how Steve wins debates: by not having them - better to shut up the critics than actually debating them. So far he's been successful.

    He can beat Jack or Stéphane, but he's scared of Elizabeth.
  47. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: The NDP didn't try very hard? Does this mean the NDP will only work for the deserving? They never seemed to be so exclusive before. Then again, all that nice folding money that they get that has it's taxes subsidized by the average taxpayer would make them think they are special.
  48. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    Jack was much too busy at the Anti Brutality rally in Montreal to notice his party get slaughtered.
  49. D K from Canada writes: "WHY NOT TO Vote NDP in the next federal/provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: The NDP is flawed!"

    The Green party will never win a seat with Elizabeth May at the helm.
  50. Gerry Pankhurst from westport ontario, Canada writes: The headline suggests the NDP has weaknesses. This is not only an untimely insult it is demonstrably wrong. For the information of the G&M - in case they missed it - the highly regarded, internationally respected head of the party has been receiving accolades for his hard hitting authorative consultations in the U.S.A on the subject of the NAFTA disaster for purposes of providing his expert advice and guidance on its future.

    The void he left in contributing his valued guidance to the Canadian government in matters pertaining to the Afghanistan conflict, due to his untimely extended absence from the country was in itself a news item that seems to have been completely ignored by the G&M and the rest of the media.

    It is a little known fact that his failure to visit Afghanistan, to visit the troops and open negotiations with the Taliban, is the reluctance of the Department of National Defense lose direct contact with him for his valued face to face consultations in Ottawa.
  51. r b from Calgary, Canada writes: Modern Technology is sooo amazing!

    Notice how clearly the messages from Vote NDP appear, even though they were sent all the way from Pluto?
  52. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Voting NDP or Green is a protest vote plain and simple. If doing so makes you feel warm and fuzzy all over, fine. It is a waste of a vote though.
    May should not be in the debates. She can debate the world from the pulpit in her church if she desires. Osama Bin Layton on the other hand has worn out the media and the public in Canada so now has inflicted himself on the US media. He is fading into irrelevance, and he will lose seats in the next election. Outremont was a protest vote (anti Dion, pro Mulchar). It was not the first of many seats in Quebec as Layton seems to think. Just bring on an election and get this crap over with. Don't screw up my summer vacation with an election, not that I can afford to go anywhere anyway.
  53. Francois A. from Calgary, Canada writes: john volmers from Toronto, Canada writes:

    ...nationalizing Alberta's oil,

    ----

    Nationalizing Alberta's oil? Are you serious? sigh... spoken like a true socialist. Of course there's no way you'll want to share anything from Ontario now, eh son?
  54. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Nationalizing our oil industry would be the slippery slope to economic ruin. I wonder where people get these ideas. Maybe they have a satellite feed to Venezula and are are fans of Hugo (Fidel) Chavez?
  55. david waye from Halifax, Canada writes: Jack Layton is No Tommy Douglas, No Bob Ray, No Steve Lewis, David Lewis, Or Broadbent. He sees the writing on the wall and wants an election so as not to lose too many seats. His strong base of votes is Western Canada which is fading for him because of the strong economy out there. Even in Saskatchewan he will lose seats.
    As for Ms.May and The Green Party, if she wants to get into The House of Commons, she should have picked a Riding that she would at least, had a chance of winning. There is just NO Way that she will beat Peter Mckay. "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING"?
  56. Brian Sexsmith from Toronto, Canada writes: Jack Layton has squandered a perfect opportunity to get the opposition parties working together on behalf of the 63% of Canadian voters who did not vote Conservative. He could have made an important contribution to federal politics but has been too busy dreaming of being King of the castle or leader of the opposition, which is highly unlikely to happen. What a disappointment.
  57. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: May's judgement, given her selection of a riding is certainly suspect. I don't know if Jack wants an election now, after the Monday bi-elections. His tea leaves will tell him that he will lose seats in a federal election. Maybe it is time for Jack to actually start supporting democracy in the House, and not arbitrarily vote against everything the government proposes. Wacko Jacko's days are numbered as the leader of the NDP. Even Buzz Hargrove no longer supports him or his party.
  58. Alex Stein from Vancouver, Canada writes: Everyone should have a voice in public life, and the NDP has nicely filled the role as a voice for society's losers. As long as there are losers, there'll be an NDP (or something like it). I'd also like to see Mrs May in the debates. She should do that trick where she eats oats from a beer bottle. It's amazing!
  59. Steve D from St. John's, Canada writes: Murray Richardson from Canada writes: "It was the NDP that brought down Paul Martin's government and allowed the CPC to form a minority government."

    Wrong on both counts. It was the CPC, Bloc and (actually least of all) the NDP (due their their small relative number of MPs) that brought down the Martin 'government'. It is not the NDP's responsiblity to prop up a minority government that had lost the confidence of Parliament. It is their job as part of the opposition to oppose.

    Secondly, it was the electorate that allowed the CPC (actually to a certain extent obligated them) to form a minority government and they have maintained the confidence of Parliament ever since. When they lose that the minority government will fall, a writ will be dropped and the NDP and the Liberals can complete their metaphorical trip round and down the toilet bowl.
  60. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way, "If this is a free and democratic society then why shouldn't all parties that are running be part of a debate?"

    Would you then include the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada, the Communist Party of Canada, The Yogic Flying Party of Canada, the Rhinocerous Party of Canada, the Libertarian Party of Canada and the Party Party of Canada?

    If you would, you certainly have to include the Anarchist Party of Canada because that's exactly what the debates would be.

    Anarchy.
  61. john volmers from Toronto, Canada writes: Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: Nationalizing our oil industry would be the slippery slope to economic ruin. I wonder where people get these ideas. Maybe they have a satellite feed to Venezula and are are fans of Hugo (Fidel) Chavez?

    Actually, many oil rich countries have nationalized their industry. Nationalized Oil has given Norway one of the highest standards of living in the world. I recommend reading Linda McQuaig's "It's the Crude Dude" so you can find out how badly the knuckle-draggers and plutocrats in the Alberta Government have screwed up. Almost all of the profits from Canada's oil go to American Oil Companies. For the record, Hugo Chavez may have his faults, but he is a saint compared to quasi-fascist thugs like Bush and his new poodle Harper. In fact, Chavez was elected three times in internationally monitored and fair elections - that’s three more times than Bush. And unlike Harper, Chavez didn't have to rely on a massive right-wing bias in the press to get him elected.
  62. Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: john volmers from Toronto: We live in a free market, capitalist democracy. The entrepreneurial skills of the citizens of North America built this place, and it will survive with the power kept in the hands of the people. Nationalizing anything has proven to fail over time. Yes, Norway has nationalized its oil industry, and has a "savings account" worth hundreds of billions. It also is one of the most expensive countries in the world to live with some of the highest taxes. It is a nanny state. Had a coke and a pizza in Oslo a couple of years ago and it was $50 US. I found it shocking, the locals thought it was a good deal.
  63. harry carnie from Northern, B.C., Canada writes: Steve D from St. John`s.......Excellent sum up!
  64. john volmers from Toronto, Canada writes: Skeptical Realist from Canada writes: The entrepreneurial skills of the citizens of North America built this place, and it will survive with the power kept in the hands of the people. One of the biggest mistakes that the left has ever made is not to challenge the myth that North America is a "free" market society. Contrary to popular belief, the Stephen Harper's of the world do not believe in Social Darwinism. They believe the world should be run by an elite over-class and that success and failure should be determined by the colour of your skin and the blueness of your blood, not your willingness to work hard or your entrepreneurial skills. In short, the Harpers of the world believe success should be inherited, not earned. Working Class people in Canada also pay high taxes. The difference is that Norway’s tax dollars go back to all the people of Norway, through spending on education, daycare, public transit...etc. Working Class taxes in Canada are increasingly being used merely to subsidize further tax breaks for the rich. If you are a Libertarian, that's fine. I disagree with that philosophy but understand why Libertarians would be against the idea of a mixed economy. What drives me crazy is the fact that most Libertarians cannot tell the difference between Social Darwinism and the "Socialism for the rich and Social Darwinism for everyone else" that people like Harper, Bush and Mike Harris believe in. Ironically, if we ever did become a society based on survival of the fittest principals, it’s the self-congratulating, pampered elites who would be the first to fall.
  65. harry carnie from Northern, B.C., Canada writes: Skeptical Realist ? Well LOOK AT NORWAY "realistically."
    If a country`s economy is booming then it`s currency rises in value.
    If the locals are happy....... then having a low dollar/peso IS the visitors problem.

    Example $10.Canadian, for a morning coffee(Tokyo,Japan 1973)

    One thing about Norway, you are NOT stepping over street people...or did you notice??
  66. harry carnie from Northern, B.C., Canada writes: P.S....Skeptical Realist............that said .. YOU ARE RIGHT.. nationalizing OUR oil assets is absolutely impractical..and would NOT work.
    We are much too involved with the U.S. economy to
    even think of it.
  67. George Paul George from Canada writes: We got too get more people too vote for thease guys as they give out the moust monie. Here in on mi reserve we can't afford to live hardly. chief doin good but the most of us is not. Ndp will give the most monie so lets vote for those guys.
  68. Green Canada from Canada writes: many capitalist societies have equity shares in oil and gas interests...just thought I'd point that out to a few posters...it's not socialism it's called good business and getting good return for public investments.

    The only people the Green's don't draw in are social conservatives. I know several conservatives who are now greens due to the social conservative change that occurred with the PC alliance/reform merger.
  69. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault, Canada writes: god bless canada from Canada writes: The " WELL I DO AGRE ON SOME OF YOUR POINTS VOTE .THERE HAS GOT TO BE A PARTY THAT ARE CLOSE TO ONES IDEAS AS WE HAVE A VERY LARGE SELECTION HERE IN CANADA. BUT ON YOUR SECOND POINT SPOIL THE VOE DOES NOTHING . WHAT DOES IT PROVE ONE I GUESS IS THAT YOU ARE TO STUPID TO FILL OUT A FORM SO MABY YOU CAN NOT READ ENGLISH SO MABY WE NEED PICTURES INSTEAD. " Actually spoiling a ballot is an entirely valid way of protesting and IS far better than not showing up. Spoiled ballots get counted in the final vote tally. So I agree with David Jenkins. Vote, but vote responsibly - this means if you don't like any of them - make this known. The worst thing a voter can do, in my opinion, is put an X beside somebody they don't really know or believe in - just for the sake of choosing. And most of all, don't listen to the ads - do some research. This next election will be a crap shoot - literally. No matter who you choose, you end up with sh!tty governance until some new blood washes away the stench from all sides. I said this in the last election and I'll say it again - if you don't have strong party or candidate who you want to vote for, don't just spoil your ballot, go one step further and SOIL your ballot. That will send the strongest message possible that we're fed up and we won't take it any longer.
  70. harry carnie from Northern, B.C., Canada writes: George Paul George........would suspect you are "spoofing" an "NDP supporter".

    Even if you are "spelling dyslectic "(as I am ,thank God for spellcheck)
    You still get your point across(not a spelling test here)
    The point is "George Paul George" (and I say this as a former N.D.P. supporter) The NDP screw up the economy....SO THERE IS NO MONEY FOR ANYBODY
  71. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way, "If this is a free and democratic society then why shouldn't all parties that are running be part of a debate?"

    Would you then include the Marxist-Leninist Party of Canada, the Communist Party of Canada, The Yogic Flying Party of Canada, the Rhinocerous Party of Canada, the Libertarian Party of Canada and the Party Party of Canada?

    If you would, you certainly have to include the Anarchist Party of Canada because that's exactly what the debates would be.

    Anarchy. ===========================================
    why would itbe anarchy? You is that how you see the world, anyone how has a different opinion is cionsidered an anarchist??????? Boy you live in a very small world.
  72. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way.

    The only parties to be allowed in the debate are those with elected MPs.

    You want in, get an MP from your party of choice elected.

    That works for me.
  73. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada : If those from the parties that do not necessarily have "big money", are not given the opportunity to speak to the people, well I think it limits choices. I am a firm believer that grassroots does have an important role to play in getting those voices out to the people so that they can listen to all voices, in order to make an informed decision. As grassroots we put on a forum and made sure that the was a representive from all parties running in the area. I think the system is afraid to let all voices speak to the people, voter turnouts are low, maybe that is what the people need, new voices, new choices. Sometimes I find you very staunch, do you ever listen to the other side????
  74. George Paul George from Canada writes: Harry

    i'm not sure what spoofing mean but i do like them ndp guys. i dont know much about the economy but i do know the goverment has lots of monie and the ndp guy says he wil get us sum.
    i dont want to argue wth you here i guess thats way we dont say who we vote four. it has been nice talkin with you i gotta go get the for wheeler started sew i can get out fishin. massi cho
  75. Mistaken Identity from Toronto, Canada writes: The NDP is an unprincipled selfish lot willing to force Canadians into spending $350Million for an election just to win 1 or 2 seats. Want to know what the NDP stands for? Just pick the hot topic that comes across the press headlines and they'll be screaming that as their position in a week or so on the press junkets. Anything to gain attention for ol' Jacko.

    Lets face it, working families stood to gain the most with the last minority Liberal budget. They pissed that away in order to win the additional handful of seats and piss in the face of working families thru a new Conservative government who has implemented a budget that they have no hand in crafting.

    When will NDP supporters wake up and smell the coffee? Their party and leader makes the most noise and has taken them back more than a few steps.
  76. James P from Spruce Grove, Canada writes: All this talk about nationalizing oil. Hmm, you'd think with all this GW and oil being ol' skool what we really should be considering nationalizing is our fresh water lakes, hydro, nuclear and the likes. Much better to steal, I mean nationalize assets that are going to be used for the next few thousand plus years, than some 1900's technology.
  77. Vickky Angstrom from Canada writes: I'd really like to see an NDP Green coalition government. They have a lot of values in common and the NDP could augment the greens rather limited platform and skill base. The greens now 'own' the environment in the public mind, and Elizabeth May would be a sensational and powerful minister of the environment.

    Green economic and social policies are too fragmented for a country that has stabilized itself economically and socially through the practice of universality -- and that is where the NDP comes in. The NDP understands the value of an economic platform based on widespread education, health and social supports, yet also supports the green's more localized emphasis on community-based businesses. It is a healthy match.

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