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China allows some foreign reporters into Tibet

CHARLES HUTZLER

Associated Press

Latest comment posted at 6:34 AM EDT 26/03/08

Move appears aimed at bolstering Beijing's claims that authorities are in control of the situation ...Read the full article

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  1. Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: where were the reporters in Falluja when the Americans were using things like phosphorus on civilians and supressing an uprising there. we now know there was a media ban.

    why the hypocrisy ?!?
  2. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: HAR HAR! I see the peanut gallery is open early today.

    Comrade Andy Lun and Comrade Mei-Xing Xu.
    What a pair of stooges.......

    Keep the laffs coming you guys.
  3. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: where were the reporters in Falluja when the Americans were using things like phosphorus on civilians and supressing an uprising there. we now know there was a media ban.

    why the hypocrisy ?!?

    ====================================

    Oh.....yes.....well....It's OK then. Fire at will comrades.
  4. Rob D from Canada writes: This post should have been on another but didn't seemed to have taken. I apolgize, I am going ot repost.

    'Sword of China' and Xiao Liu, I do appreciate the discussions we are having. As I scan the blogs in various websites, I am amazed at the hatred that the Chinese bloggers have directed against the Tibetans and the Dalai Lama due to the recent uprising/protests in Tibet.

    It's quite amazing. In general, Tibetans don't have that level of hatred agains the Chinese people. I am being serious as it's more levelled at the Chinese government and its policies. I do appreciate some level headedness from you guys to try to understand at the root cause of this problem. I also agree that a lot of the westerners understanding of Tibet is not correct as well but they meant well. I am sure one thing you two will probably agree is that I think outside knows more about Tibet than most of the people in China. I have been to mainland China and Tibet many times. It amazes me that the lack of understanding of average Chinese on Tibet and Tibetans which is at best elementary.

    Tibet is kind of chic these days prior to the recent unrest and Tibet is considered some kind of Disneyland, let alone having some problems, with happy people, singing/dancing all time in a beautiful scenery as broadcasted in CCTV all the time. I went on many Chinese tour groups to Tibetan areas.

    I hope one good thing that comes out of this recent uprising is that it raises the understanding of the large majority of Chinese that there is a problem in Tibet. I am sure for a lot of them it destroyed their long helf views that Tibetans are forever grateful for the lies of PRC CCP for liberating them from abject poverty and slavery.

    So they must be puzzled why the protest and uprising. If they have some brain two things should come up, 1) why are they protesting not just in Lhasa but also in lot of the Tibetan inhabited regions 2) can we believe all the news from Xinhua.
  5. Rob D from Canada writes: Continue 2:
    'Sword of China' seems to have a pretty good understanding of the situation. You are right, person like XT, some Tibetan bloggers knowledge seem limited and hear more ranting, hate than real discussions. It amazes me that a person like XT and many others who now live in a 'free world' with access to unfiltered information, still choose to rant only one side. The only motivation is of ultra-nationalism which the even the great helmsman correctly labelled as 'han chauvinism' which is dangerous. That's what I see amongst a lot of young privileged Chinese who have immigrated to the west perhaps living off their parents stolen/corrupted money from back home.

    As you know the PRC govt is not the best for telling truth and being transparent. So the govt is inciting this hate against the Tibetans and blaming the Dalai Lama, DL clique for inciting. You know anyone can accuse but you need to prove your charges otherwise it doesn't hold water. Let's have some internation monitors to investigate these charges to show some evidence. DL said he is welcoming Chinese officials to visit his base to investigate. It's absolutely ludicrous to blame DL or outside force. It was reported to be not organized and random protest of grievances that they wanted to express. Most of the protests were peaceful as usual but the level of violence and use of the lethal force by the paramilitary force is astounding. 140 protestors dead by bullet from the police and thousands arrested and are being tortured as we speak. It's a huge sacrifize. The detail list of 40 peaceful protestors are out.
  6. Rob D from Canada writes: Continue 3:
    The best hope is to negotiate with the DL to get a Tibetan acceptance to be part of PRC. I am not sure if I had done a good job of what DL means to the Tibetans. If there is one person who can calm the Tibetans and sell the autonomy concept it is none other than DL. He did maximum compromize and there is nothing more he can do. What DL is asking the implementation of the 17 point agreement in practice and consistent with the PRC constitution on minority rights. Also I must say that this autonomy must be for all the Tibetan inhabited regions. So don't start labelling it as 'greater Tibet' issue, which is not. It is to protect the unique Tibetan spiritual and cultural heritage. Sure let the relationship be of the former priest and patron. Tibetan spiritual tradition is gaining so much acceptance in the well-off mainland Chinese and this will be a good thing to bring ethics and promote harmonious society.

    The recent uprising proved for the world to see at utter failure of the Chinese government policy on Tibet. Mao would have been offended and shouting from his grave for this utter failure. There will be cooling down in months to come and hope that the hardliners such as TAR Party Secretary Zhang Qingli will be replaced and a true dialogue will begin with Dalai Lama (DL) and his representative. The more personal attacks the PRC throws at DL, it will anger the Tibetans in Tibet more.

    So I am not sure the strategy of the Chinese government to incite hate within the Chinese people. It's simply not true.
  7. Levap K from Burlington, Canada writes: Mei-Xing Xu from Canada writes: where were the reporters in Falluja when the Americans were using things like phosphorus on civilians and supressing an uprising there. we now know there was a media ban. why the hypocrisy ?!?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Hypocrisy? Chinese don't blink an eye or would protest when you mention millions killed by Mao in the name of communism. Don't you dare mention to Chinese, Japanese and rape of Nanking where 'only' hundreds of thousands died. They will tell you how horrendous it was. I agree it was, but why Japanese are to this day ostracized but not Mao. Would it be another blaring hypocrisy?

    As of Falluja, you may not remember, that the whole city was surrounded by both Iraqi and USA army. Civilians were given ample time to leave. That eliminates your Chinese puppet hypocrisy. The first two comments- that both of you started freshly on this page - it only confirms that Chinese embassy stands on guard! The Chinese wall is crumbling in the wake of The Berlin wall tumbling almost twenty years ago. It all feels like it happened yesterday.
  8. Levap K from Burlington, Canada writes: China allows some foreign reporters into Tibet
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Just another 'Potemkin village' only this time Made in China instead of Russia.

    They let you see what they want. When it comes to make believe nobody can ever surpass communists!
  9. Rob D from Canada writes: I will leave with one point and the only person who can negotiate a win-win deal for Tibet and China is Dalai Lama (DL). PRC/Xinhua reported DL as irrelevant to Tibetans in Tibet just last year and now PRC/Xinhua is blaming DL for the reset unrest. There is so much China can get by making a deal on Tibet while DL is alive. Let's hope that hardliners in the top CCP leadership don't get their way on Tibet as they have in the last 50 years. I agree we have a small window of opportunity and need a visionary leader who has the courage and political willto take that leap. I am not sure if it's Hu Jintao. Dalai Lama is ready to make that deal anytime, anywhere representing the Tibetan side.

    One thing I don't understand is the deelp hostililty thrown against the DL recently. Little off context. Some Chinese bloggers mentioned DL is consider coward as he fled. Well if he not excaped. Two things would have happened 1) PRC would have killed him just as the suspicious death of the Panchen Lama at a young age in his 50s in the late 80s 2) or Tibet issue would have been solved by PRC through Han assimilation just as the other minorities in China.

    DL has always supported the PRC hosting Beijing Olympics. DL supported PRC in WTO, US permanent trade status. Because of DL, there is very little hatred towards the Chinese people by the Tibetans. Cool heads must prevail. Remember it's from a person who lost his country, saw the destruction of the monasteris and killing of thousands of his people at the hands of CCP/PRC, slow strangulation of the culture.

    END
  10. F H from Canada writes: Unless they are allowed free access to troubled areas, without being overlooked by government or armed forces officials, then this is utterly worthless and pointless and yet another ham-fisted flailing about as damage control by China.
  11. Rob D from Canada writes: I am not sure if some of Chinese brothers understand that Tibetans in Tibet are ruled with a reign of terror and fear unlike most parts of China.

    If they speak up for Tibetan rights, they are labelled splittest which will at a minimum lose their livelihood and worst subject to imprisonment and tortured. You believe and talk about liberation and the benevolent policies of PRC on Tibet. Don't believe in the PRC and Xinhau news propaganda. This tour is another PRC propaganda effort.

    The foreign media and international monitors must be allowed unfettered access to Tibet to report and investigate absolutely baseless accusation that this protest was instigated by outside force. Tibetan people are speaking up despite huge odds and risk that it's wise for our Chinese friends to understand the situation.

  12. Spar Brampton from hollier and hornier than thou, Canada writes: this time G&M seems to recognize that it should at least appear to be balanced.
  13. Joe Froze from Canada writes: There's always some excuses for demonstrations in each and every Olympic. China is wise enough to end it quick, not to repeat Paris' experience of 2 years ago when the riot launched by its ethnic group lasted for 2 months with economy came to a standstill.
  14. Joe Froze from Canada writes: Rob, doing a good job as the Official Spokesperson for the noble exiled Tibetans
  15. moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: Tibet issue, for China, is like about house owner and tenant. China(House owner) doesn't like the tenant(Tibetan) who is destroying things in the house so they wouldn't continue their rental agreetment and let the tenant find a new shelter which is currently India. Now tenant is living in the new place for 50 years with unclear aid. After another 50 years, they will be like Kurdish whom no one like and kick them to and fro. So, this is the game which rules come from guns(Bush's philo.)
  16. UCant Haveitall from Canada writes: Why not boycott the Beijing Olympics and stage the events all over the world at various sites where previous Olympics have been held. The facilities are already there. China loses. All others win.
  17. Don MacWilliam from Beijing, China writes: In my opinion the Dalai Lama is innocent of the charges. Even the Chinese media reports that the protests started out peaceful. However, as things progressed, the protests turned violent. The violence could have been incited by several factors, not the least of which was the efforts of the police to quell the protests. But I believe the underlying reason was the widening income gap between the Han peoples and the Tibetans. Someone wrote in another forum that the Tibetans should be grateful that China proper has sent them many Hans and built them a railroad. But, the Hans own most of the businesses and run the banks etc. They are getting wealthy on the backs of the Tibetans. History has shown that eventually the poor, trodden on by wealthy oppressors, will eventually rebel. Look to Africa where the Africans expelled and even massacred the white landowners. Look to southeast Asia where the indigenous peoples attacked Chinese and burned shops etc because of their wealth. Can you really blame the Tibetans for being angry? They are the poorest of the non-Han nationalities in China, and they are watching others get rich. And as for the railroad, it works both ways. It was built primarily so that the PRC could respond quickly to unrest in Tibet (my opinion). As for boycotting the games, I sincerely hope that no country does so, especially the athletes. The leaders must do as they see fit. I really don't think that outsiders will change China's human rights attitude, that will have to come from within. Another thing you should know; the Olympics in Beijing has caused the displacement of over 1.5 million people, a significant percentage of whom have been placed in deeper poverty. They are not protected. And, can you imagine, the migrant workers who are building the venues are sometimes not paid, and have no health or accident protection, not to mention the fact that they and their families (if they bring them) are treated worse than vermine.
  18. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: Joe Froze from Canada writes: Rob, doing a good job as the Official Spokesperson for the noble exiled Tibetans

    =========================================

    'Joe Froze' doing a swell job as a stooge for the ignoble CCP.
  19. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: Rob D from Canada writes: I am not sure if some of Chinese brothers understand that Tibetans in Tibet are ruled with a reign of terror and fear unlike most parts of China. Rob: Have you been in China or Tibet? Your first statement is definitely hogwash. I have been in Tibet and China many times and I have Tibetan friends. They are definitely not as happy as the CCTV portrayed but they are not as you described as ruled with a reign of terror and fear. it is precisely this kind of propaganda damaged the credibility of western media. in fact this kind of propaganda is actually doing a huge disservice to further the Tibetan Chinese's just and fair cause. the Han chinese people harbor no hatred towards their Tibetan chinese brothers and sisters and I don't believe the Tibetan chinese hate their Han brothers as well. In fact the Hans are fully aware and don't mind that the government is giving all the ethnic minorities preferential treatments, which most western media conviniently forgot to mention. the only thing most chinese against is the separatist movement backed by foreign powers. when you look at stories form both sides and you research availalbel documents and histories from various sources, and most importantly, when you look at who would benefit most from this event (i choose not to use the biased word riot), a reasonable person can very easily draw his own conclusion.
  20. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: Rob D from Canada writes: I am not sure if some of Chinese brothers understand that Tibetans in Tibet are ruled with a reign of terror and fear unlike most parts of China. Rob: Have you been in China or Tibet? Your first statement is definitely hogwash. I have been in Tibet and China many times and I have Tibetan friends. They are definitely not as happy as the CCTV portrayed but they are not as you described as ruled with a reign of terror and fear. it is precisely this kind of propaganda damaged the credibility of western media. in fact this kind of propaganda is actually doing a huge disservice to further the Tibetan Chinese's just and fair cause. the Han chinese people harbor no hatred towards their Tibetan chinese brothers and sisters and I don't believe the Tibetan chinese hate their Han brothers as well. In fact the Hans are fully aware and don't mind that the government is giving all the ethnic minorities preferential treatments, which most western media conviniently forgot to mention. the only thing most chinese against is the separatist movement backed by foreign powers. when you look at stories form both sides and you research availalbel documents and histories from various sources, and most importantly, when you look at who would benefit most from this event (i choose not to use the biased word riot), a reasonable person can very easily draw his own conclusion.
  21. Republic of Saturn from Canada writes:
    Chinese yeun hits a new high yesterday. Their foreign reserve are approaching 1.7 trillion, bigger than Canada's GDP, 2 trillion USD next year. Chinese bank profit jumped 70% as just disclosed.

    World factory, world bank, looks pretty good.
  22. Don MacWilliam from Beijing, China writes: Finally, the Dalai Lama is protesting 'cultural genocide'. The 2.7 /- Tibetans who remain in Tibet are being overrun by the Hans Nationality (90 % of the Chinese population). Who knows how many Hans have migrated to Tibet for the financial rewards. As one expressed on another forum, the altitude causes sickness, so it is not good for all, but one can adjust. The point here is that the PRC is encouraging (in my opinion) migration to Tibet to do exactly that, for the Hans to become a majority and thus quell the need for rebellion.
    But, again in my opinion, it has and will continue to backfire. We have not seen the end of unrest in China, unfortunately. I see unrest in Xinjiang (northwest) and even Inner Mongolia unless the PRC starts to recognize that they are all equal and deserve an equal share of the pie. They can only do that if there is open and free communication between all peoples. China is in fact a great and beautiful country with an overwhelming history. Their history is one of war and internal conflict, one would hope that they can learn from it.
  23. Republic of Saturn from Canada writes:
    Chinese just needs a world-class military to settle all 'human right abuse', I see that happens in 10 years.

    Guys, you have 10 years to cry.
  24. Lemmy Nothor from Exiled in Barcelona, Spain writes: Joe Froze from Canada writes: There's always some excuses for demonstrations in each and every Olympic. China is wise enough to end it quick, not to repeat Paris' experience of 2 years ago when the riot launched by its ethnic group lasted for 2 months with economy came to a standstill. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< First of all, the riots in France have very little to do with Tibet. In France they want to be able to get work, in order to be like all the other kids i.e. spend money on clothes, cars and go clubbing......I doubt very much that Tibetan monks are into Ecstasy.....well, ok, bad example. But you get the picture. Now as far as riots before Olympic Games, Mexico tops them all.... Remember this : 'The Tlatelolco Massacre, also known as The Night of Tlatelolco (from a book title by the Mexican writer Elena Poniatowska), took place on the afternoon and night of October 2, 1968, in the Plaza de las Tres Culturas in the Tlatelolco section of Mexico City, ten days before the 1968 Summer Olympics celebrations in Mexico City, when police and military shot student demonstrators. The death toll remains controversial: some estimates place the number of deaths in the thousands, but most sources report between 200 and 300 deaths. Government sources say '4 Dead, 20 Wounded'. The exact number of people who were arrested is also controversial.'
  25. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: 'Republic of Saturn from Canada writes: Chinese yeun hits a new high yesterday. Their foreign reserve are approaching 1.7 trillion, bigger than Canada's GDP, 2 trillion USD next year.'

    ----------

    doesnt take long for some of these posters to wriggle off onto some wild tangent on these threads..... at any rate, when making comparisons, lets stick to comparing apples to apples and not apples to oranges. how about a comparison of gdp per capita between the two countries?

    china ($7700) / canada ($35600) 2006 est.
  26. Joe Froze from Canada writes: Rob, doing a good job as the Official Spokesperson for the noble exiled Tibetans
  27. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: 'Republic of Saturn from Canada writes: Chinese yeun hits a new high yesterday. Their foreign reserve are approaching 1.7 trillion, bigger than Canada's GDP, 2 trillion USD next year.'

    ----------

    a correction. i think i previously reported china's GDP per capita in national units of currency (RMB) and not dollars. the real figures for the comparison of GDP per capita for china / canada should be:

    china ($1,703) 2005 est. source: National Bureau of Statistics (NBS)
    canada ($42,460) 2006 est. source: DFAIT
  28. The Shield of the Sword of China from China writes: Where is Sword of China? If the harm has come to him you will deal with the mighty blow of the Shield of the Sword of China. We will not bandy words with lackeys and western lying media stooge, we will strike a million blows of the Sword and the Shield.
  29. nobel savage from Montreal, Canada writes: Joe Froze you likely think the Chinese learned the RIGHT lessons from Nanjing......REAL progress you PRC guys got going over there.

    **Intercepted by British intelligence: An uncropped photo with a Chinese policeman in disguise holding a knife:

    http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=20039&article=Chinese Regime Implicated in Staging Violence in Lhasa&t=1&c=1

    http://phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=20079&article=Death toll rise to 79%2c over 1200 arrests and more than 100 disappear in Tibet
  30. W L from Canada writes: Rob D from Canada writes: I am not sure if some of Chinese brothers understand that Tibetans in Tibet are ruled with a reign of terror and fear unlike most parts of China.

    ........

    The foreign media and international monitors must be allowed unfettered access to Tibet to report and investigate absolutely baseless accusation that this protest was instigated by outside force.

    =============================================

    How do you know that Tibetans in Tibet are 'ruled with a reign of terror' if the foreign media and international monitors are not allowed into Tibet to report on what is happening there? You obviously don't trust the Chinese media. And in the absence of foreign media, how did you come up with your statement of fact?

    This has been my question from the very start. How do we suddenly gain so many Tibet experts here who seem to know exactly what Tibetans want when relatively few has ever been there, much less talked to a Tibetan living in Tibet??? We've only seen images of few rioters in Lhasa. Do you think rioters represent the majority of Tibetans? I surely hope the majority of Tibetans aren't as violent.

    The other images of Tibetans rioting across the world are not Tibetans in Tibet. They are members or off springs of the ruling/owning class in Tibet that left Lhasa 50 years ago. I'm not surprised that they'll be rioting because they want their land/slaves in Tibet back. But these people hardly represent the Tibetans in Tibet.

    So.... how do we suddenly have a bunch of westerners who seem to know what Tibetans in Tibet want? Or did someone just make up a convincing story of oppression and everyone jumped on the bash China bandwagon?
  31. The Blind Man Is King from Burlytown, Canada writes: Andy Lun, where are YOUR sources?
  32. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: Rob D: the main reason for majority Tibetan Chinese' unhappiness is rather economical than territorial. In fact it is universally true that people in the bottom quarter of economic ladder is always unhappy. the western region of china is historically very poor due to many reasons. as the result, Tibetan chinese and many Han chinese living in that region, just like economically disadvantaged people in US and Canada, are very unhappy about what the government is doing. If you look at the any poor region or countries, the things people concer the most is survival, how I can put my next meal on my table, how can I feed my family tomorrow. I am not saying freedom of expression is not important, what I mean is that people living in different economic development stages have different priorities. It might be very difficult for a westerner from developed country to understand, but that is not important to the poor guys. the westerners seem to have the habit of imposing their own values and rules onto other people, suffering from a syndrome of what I called HOLLIER AND HORNIER THAN THOU mentality. get back to the current event in tibet. the problem with current western media in reporting anything related to tibetan issues is that the western media always try to put a round economic pig into a oppression/liberation square. this kind of practice is causing a huge damage to the credibility of the westernmedia in the minds of the majority of chinese people. it is easy for some one to bury their heads in the sands and brush them off as ebing brainwahsed by the CCP governmnt. But it could be a very slippery slope. if you are not careful, you could be fighting a losing war.
  33. Global Citizen from Canada writes: Hi Rob D,

    I agree with most of your points, especially that the dialogue with Dalai Lama is the only opportunity for CCP to achieve peace with the Tibetan.

    While you said the Tibetan have no hatred towards other Chinese, it is not supported by the killing and looting in the riot in Tibet, again I would like to believe it is only a minority extremists as some on the Chinese side shown on this forum.

    Most Chinese actually hold great respect for the Tibetan culture and religion, as you said, many seek religion to escape the spiritual vacuum of the CCP rule. However, to live side by side as neighbours is another story, this is similar to some Chinese that had great expectation for western democracy but only to be disappointed with discrimination and prejudice once they settled in the west and became more nationalistic, thus changing from anti CCP to pro government.

    I do appreciate your ideals, and hope that all people can get along peacefully as Dalai Lama has shown the world.
  34. Brigands We from Ottawa, Canada writes: W L, are you being disingenuous? If not, YOU obviously know personally zero Tibetan refugees, nor have you ever heard what they have to say about repressive conditions in Tibet before they risked their lives escaping to freedom.. You have obviously not paid attention to congressional and parliamentary testimony about torture in Tibet, nor have you read the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture's investigation and report about torture in Tibet. Why don't you bone up on some of the basic information. You seem oblivious to some commonly-known facts.
  35. Republic of Saturn from Canada writes:
    Some info unpdate:

    The invited news agencies to Tibet includes Hongkong, Taiwan, Japan, and Arabic news agencies.

    BBC, CNN, etc and less significant, Canadian news agencies are kicked out, not invited, or rejected to go.
  36. chicken grambo from Toronto, Canada writes: Here is why our priorities are all wrong. We should not be worrying about Tibet so mauch as other world issues.
    At least we have the ability of dialogue with the Chinese leaders on these matters and thing will be solved diplomatically. Now on the other hand......

    It says loads that the G&M will allow a discussion about this politically and racially charged topic. However, if there so much as one muslim in the story the comments section is shut down.....they do that in Tibet too! That makes this area of concern more important to me then Tibet!!
  37. Gopal Bhattacharyya from Toronto, ON, Canada writes: I have read arguments put forward by three gentlemen namely 'Sword of China', Andy Lun and Mei-Xing-Xu. Will the communist China allow the discussion like the one we are having? 100% of Chinese population support the heavy handed approach of China's own PLA? Why are we having a discussion in this newspaper when 100% of Chinese are in agreement with the government action? It seems to me 'Sword of China', Andy Lun and Mei-Xing-Xu are agent of China who brainwashed by the communist party.
  38. Comments are Closed from Toronto, Canada writes: Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: HAR HAR! I see the peanut gallery is open early today.

    LOL thinking the same thing.

    Anyone seen the jobs for journalist minders yet? Must be trained in automatic weapons and surveillance. Now back to my list: Coke, McDonald's, GM, Nike ...
  39. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: Gopal Bhattacharyya from Toronto

    Thou shalt not argue with untouchables

    29th commandment, 100BC
  40. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: The utility of this forum on this particular subject appears to be exhausted. It's been days, and no new arguments or facts have been introduced lately. G&M, just shut it down.
  41. Mr. Justice from We are not the shills from the embassy downstairs! We are lifelonging Canadians from the, Canada writes: Yes, Little Wang -- uh, I mean 'John Smith' -- we are the lifelonging Canadians from the Canadia who only want the truth to come out about the glorious PRC and to expose the Dalai and his Lama Brigands for being the CIA persons.

    We even hurl in the slanging terms to the discussions here to show how nativist Canadians we is.

    We drop our opinions on one and all. Do you like our droppings ?
  42. moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: Jealous, jealous, the fire of jealous is burning in your mind... It says in the bible, jealous is not a good thing.
  43. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Moe - jealous of what? China? Please. I will do no more than point out the fact that migration between China and Canada is essentially a one-way flow. People are literally dying to get out of that place.
  44. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: Comments are Closed from Toronto, Canada writes: Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: HAR HAR! I see the peanut gallery is open early today.

    LOL thinking the same thing.

    Anyone seen the jobs for journalist minders yet? Must be trained in automatic weapons and surveillance. Now back to my list: Coke, McDonald's, GM, Nike ...

    ==============

    I saw that, must be able to put a JV peanut into a Varsity square. I think you can Steve can do that. LOL................

    Thou shalt be nice to peanut

    30th commandment 100 BC
  45. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D: Tashi delek, my friend. I am here reading... I just don't want to put some half-bake comment to put more fuel in the fire. Let me first repost some of my comment from earlier: You kept saying that Tibetans living in Tibet is unhappy because of Chinese oppression, economically, culturally and in terms of sheer number of settlers, let us discuss one by one. -- China's one-child policy does not apply to all minorities (including Tibetans) -- Minority students (Tibetans included) are given priority admissions to colleges; -- Government jobs are given to minorities on a priority basis as well; -- In all minority area, their languages must be used. This is law in China; -- Billions are poured in to Tibet each year, according to BBC, the combined amount is greater than the total amount Western countries send to the whole of Africa. -- primary schools, middle schools and universities built from scratch; -- Medicare system is built from scratch. Can anyone tell me, is there any other minorities in any other country in the world get such preferential treatment? I went back to my father's birth village last year, somewhere in the Henan province, most village buildings still have no windows and doors. The poor peasants have no heating or air-conditioning... Compared to a lot of Tibetan areas with all the newly build monasteries and houses, I would like my Tibetan brothers to show a little compassions, please? Can this be classified as economic depression?
  46. moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: Uncomfortable, jealous, uneasy, all..occuping in your mind...
  47. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.:

    Han Chinese has a old saying: 'The baby crying loudest gets more milk'.

    The policy of Chinese government, from the time I remember how to right, has always been that: 'we are a country having 56 nations, each nations are equal'.

    In our currency, Yuan, Tibetan language is one of the 5 major languages that are engraved there.

    In Tibet, Tibetan language is by law one of the official language. In the judicial system, if the plaintiff is a Tibetan, the law says that the documentation must be Tibetan.
    .....

    The list is endless... Now, someone please tell me, why these things are not published in Western newspapers? They are freely available in Xinhua news website... I know you are western trained professional, but you can access Xinhua website, right?

    Can this be classified as 'Culture Genocide' as claimed by Dalai Lama?

    There is no doubt that there are some kind of Han superiority from some Hans, they are most likely un-educated...
  48. Larry Geel from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't expect see any videos showing the riot at G&M. It seems they are not politically corret for readers to see.

    Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: The utility of this forum on this particular subject appears to be exhausted. It's been days, and no new arguments or facts have been introduced lately. G&M, just shut it down.
  49. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Oh, you mean worried and anxious that an unaccountable regime will acquire a good deal of economic and military power without the political maturity to handle it? Like when a monkey somehow gets hold of a loaded revolver? Yes, that would be accurate.
  50. The Shield of the Sword of China from China writes: Ah Sword of China, welcome back. I have be worred that the western lying media have ransack you and prevent the further stopping of the lies. I am glad to be wrong.

    Be strong Sword of China, I am having your back.
  51. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.:

    As for someone building Tibet as a Disneyland... I beg to differ. This idea is actually suggested by Western professors as a way to let Tibet Independence become viable economically.

    Do you really think our Tibetan brothers is not happy that they were left in 19th century as kind of Disneyland for tourists? Let me tell you, I happen know a lot of Tibetan students in Beijing, they like i-pod as much as you do, they play computers as much as you do, they like video games as much as you do... What right do you have to say that you like to be left as actor/actress in a 21st Century Tibetanland?
  52. Spar Brampton from hollier than thou, Canada writes: To the writer of this article
    CHARLES HUTZLER

    Associated Press

    please select your wrods accurately.

    what do you mean by ethnic Chinese?

    there are 56 ethnic groups among the Chinese. The majority is the Han chinese, and there are tibetan chinese, Hui chinese.. just like african american, native american, italian american.....

    when you describe a fight between an african american and a WASP american do you say things like:

    an African is fighting an ethnic American, while both of them are american citizens?

    how pathetic.
  53. James C from Shenzhen, China writes: 'Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: The utility of this forum on this particular subject appears to be exhausted. It's been days, and no new arguments or facts have been introduced lately. G&M, just shut it down.'

    ----------

    one of the best comments to appear on these threads lately. the only utility of these threads on china related stories is it keeps some of these posters busy 24/7 and likely prevents them from causing damage elsewhere.
  54. moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: The next generation of tibetans will be OK, because they're now totally educated in Mandarin. They will be new Chinese soon. Be patient.
  55. Tony Mareschealle from mississauga, Canada writes: I loved this mornings CBC radio news report - Chinese authorities reported that 600 protestors had 'turned themselves in' - thats a good one
  56. Spar Brampton from hollier and hornier than thou, Canada writes: to Sward of China:

    Thou shalt not reason with unreasonables.

    31st commandment 100 BC
  57. Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: 'China's Foreign Ministry lashed out at a British newspaper editorial comparing the Beijing Olympics to the 1936 Games in Nazi Germany as an insult to the Chinese people.'

    Actually, I think the overall chicom body count is higher than Hitler's.
  58. A H from Thornhill, Canada writes: The big loser will be western media including 'Globe and Mail' over this Tibetan riot. The violent protest were reported as a peaceful protest. The government's effort to rescue ordinary people were reported as armed crack down. Some media like CNN, BBC and others even intended used wrong photo or caption to cheat on readers and gave readers their biased opinion. Enough is enough! It is not ignorance, It is prejudice. This time the media's show will give all Chinese a good lesson. No one will trust western media any more. The western countries anti-China mentality is so obvious now.
  59. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sure Moe, they'll be new Chinese every one. But you've been there over 50 years already, a couple of generations' worth, and I'm not feeling the love of which you speak. What up?
  60. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.: A lot of Tibetans living outside Tibet and some people from Western countries worry about the sheer number of Han settlements in Tibet. I can understand this. In the human history, it is perhaps very true that smaller cultures will eventually be absorbed by their more powerful counterpart...French is every worried by American culture right now.... Mongolian and Manchurian have gone through the same process. They are now part of our Chinese culture (not Han culture). However, it is hardly true to say their culture is dead... my wife still likes Manchurian dress (Qi Pao) whenever she wants to dress formally... As for the preservation of Tibetan culture, millions dollars were spent on monasteries. I believe that quite a few millions are spent on documenting one of the greatest Tibetan peot (I can't remember the name). This peot is not written down by Tibetans themselves, right? I can understand that someone want to restrict the number of Hans moving to Tibet. Let me clarify this: -- Most Hans don't want to go there as they are not used to the high attitude; -- Most Han settlers are from neighboring Sichuan and Qinghai, Gansu provinces. There is no such thing as Hans from all other provinces suddenly want to move to Tibet. -- The current Constitution of China warrant that all Chinese is free to move to anywhere they like (although this is hardly practical as there will be things like medicare, ...., etc. to consider). If someone want to go to Tibet, then no one can stop him by law. -- Also, Tibetans need help to build the infrastructures there. As I said before, things like railway is just the first news in the whole life... you want me to find a railway crew to drive the train in Tibet? -- Some British professors have suggested that Tibet be turned into high end tourist area. But currently, price of flight, price of train tickets are already the most expensive in whole China... What would you suggest we should do?
  61. Spar Brampton from hollier and hornier than thou, Canada writes: Bubbles McBubbles from Trawna, Canada writes: 'China's Foreign Ministry lashed out at a British newspaper editorial comparing the Beijing Olympics to the 1936 Games in Nazi Germany as an insult to the Chinese people.'

    except Hitler is demoncratically elected.
  62. An Thornton from Canada writes: Levap K from Burlington, thank you for mentioning Mao and the hypocrisy of the Nanking Massacre still being held against the Japanese today.

    I am deeply disturbed by those labelling the Dali Lama as a terrorist and Andy Lun- you should BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

    Being obviously from China, I understand your need to defend your country, as would I if journalists were reporting atrocities in Canada.

    The problem is when you label the Dalai Lama- a spiritual being as a terrorist, you are adding to the already tarnised image that China's government has .
  63. F H from Canada writes: 'A H from Thornhill, Canada writes: The big loser will be western media including 'Globe and Mail' over this Tibetan riot. The violent protest were reported as a peaceful protest.' That because it WAS a peaceful protest until hundreds of monks were rounded up and haven't been heard from since. China shot itself in its own foot. Again.
  64. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.

    We have already discussed that Tibet Independence will be a bloody process...

    For the sake of discussion, let's say you gained independence. Tell me how economically, culturally and politically you will run the newly independent Tibet....

    Our Tibetan brothers in China would like to know this...
  65. F H from Canada writes: 'As for the preservation of Tibetan culture, millions dollars were spent on monasteries.' Oops! You made a little typo there. It should read 'Millions dollars were spent on razing monasteries to the ground and murdering monks'. You shills keep on forgetting that we in North America don't have censorship in our news and so we know the actual truth, not the propoganda that China feeds to its own people.
  66. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sword of China - how to run an independent Tibet? That's not too difficult a question if you look at it from a non-Chinese perspective. You LET THE TIBETANS RUN IT.
  67. Spar Brampton from hollier and hornier than thou, Canada writes: An Thornton:

    Dalai Lama is both a spiritual leader and a politician. I adore his spiritual side, but on his politician side? I treat him like any politician.

    It is not uncommon to see people especially politicians contradict their own believes from time to time. in fact most politician preaches what they don't believe. I won't go as far as labelling him as a terrorist. but reports from different sources indicated that DL was not unaware what was going on priot to the riot.
  68. moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: To Bludgen

    After railway reached the west cost in Kanada, natives disappeared or killed or forced to move to north. Samething, new railway was introduced in Tibet last year, their dark-age style culture will disappear, and modern society is coming soon. So you can go there, enjoy your coffee with double-double in a Starbucks, even in a Timmy if the Timmy is not shy to explore abroad. And, you won't see too much temples
    and monks which are not prosuctive in a modern soceity and u actually not want to see in your own country, Right ?
  69. T Liu from Canada writes: 'Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Moe - jealous of what? China? Please. I will do no more than point out the fact that migration between China and Canada is essentially a one-way flow. People are literally dying to get out of that place. ' Another G.W.Bush, just like Iraqis dying to have US take control of their country. Yea, I guess according to you we, chinese, were dying to leave our home? Please, be mature, what kind of stupid comment this is? im not sure which chinese was dying to leave china, but certainly not me and my family. We came just becoz there are less population so that means less competation for good jobs. But after living here for 9 years, I would say discrimination towards chinese can be found everywhere and racism is far from gone. People probably dont let it show clearly due to the law, but it still within a lot people's mind. There's rarely any good positive side report about china on tv or newspaper. Media always reports things like unrest in china, human right issues in china, lead toys from china (which later was admited caused by western company's design flaw), pet food from china.... basically making china looks like hell. Thank you all you western people and your so call democracy government! I will start looking for opportunities to move back to China and let people know what western world really look like. I feel if things keep going like this, it's time for all chinese be united and prepared a war with the west. It seems to be the only solution when dealing things like this with west. Look back the history or just Iraq and Afganistan, talking and all those craps mean nothing. West always demanding more and more from china, and they are pushing china and the chinese people towards their limits. Oh well, I know I'm like nothing here and most canadian wont even accept any comment we say (everyone has different opinion was brainwashed). Ok, i will certainly have no problem fight for my country and people.
  70. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.:

    My friend, from what I read, see and heard, I conclude that in China:

    -- There is no such thing as systematic genocide of Tibetan culture;
    -- There is no such thing as systematic descrimination against Tibetans

    As I said before, I do admit that there would be some Tibetans feel unhappy. However, we should examine each un-happiness carefully, is it because the sheer economic development speed? is it because environmental pollution? Is it wealth distribution is not working?

    Or isn't used by someone conveniently against their Han/Muslim brothers...

    Oh, I forgot the environmental protection part:

    -- Almost half of Tibet is now classified as National Environment Protection area (this means there will be no commercial development in these areas).

    Let me also remind you that, Tibetans are fully involved in the decission-making process:

    -- The Governer of Tibet Autonomous Area is Tibetan.

    -- One of my friends told me (I am not sure) that in Tibet, only 20% of policemen are actually from ethnical Hans.
  71. T Liu from Canada writes: 'Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Sword of China - how to run an independent Tibet? That's not too difficult a question if you look at it from a non-Chinese perspective. You LET THE TIBETANS RUN IT. '

    So from any non-canadian perspective, one could say let natives run Canada. Dont just talk the talk, get into the action man. Do you guys have the guts to hand over Canada to the natives? it seems everytime i mention natives, everyone here avoid answering it. Very interesting! chickens
  72. Bludgeon of Beijing from Ottawa, Canada writes: Wow Moe - this is what I meant when I wrote earlier that China is politically immature. No-one who has looked at the situation of the native peoples in 'Kanada' (do you really live in Richmond?) would even consider pursuing the same path a second time. Brutal, stupid mistakes were made, and both cultures are still paying for them. But you, while you accuse me of cultural blindness with your ill-placed 'enjoy your coffee' comment, will advocate following that well-trodden but terribly unhappy path. You would replace 'dark-age style culture' with 'modern society'? If you believe what you have written, I'm sorry, but you are a fool.
  73. X. T. from Canada writes: Rob D from Canada writes: I will leave with one point and the only person who can negotiate a win-win deal for Tibet and China is Dalai Lama (DL).
    ----------------------------------------
    There is no win-win here as long as DL insists his idea of 'autonomy', which is not different from the 'autonomy' of Kosovo from 1998.

    I know people in Tibet worship DL, and as well as every other 'living Buddha' regardless how he is installed. DL is not the only religious leader of Tibet. He is only one the leaders of the biggest branch of Tibetan Buddhism called Gellug. The other one is Panchen.

    DL used to hold a lot of political assets, but he has long used up. Time is against him.

    About Panchen's death, conspiracy theory does not hold water. Yes, he has been ill-treated during that cultural revolution, so were many others. If Chinese government really wanted him dead they had 10 years to kill him in jail. He was released from jail and had Chinese government's apology, like many others abused during the cultural revolution.

    One thing I have to mention, it is that the 10th Panchen would have been dead long before that had DL been in power. Your 14th DL refused to recognize the 10th Panchen at the beginning. Panchen's followers had to put him under protection from DL's murder. This is why in that 17-point agreement 2 points are related to Panchen. Only after China settled the 17-point agreement, could 10th Panchen be enthroned.

    And that is why in 1956 on the pilgrimage to India, DL decided to stay but Panchen decided to return - No one wants to stay with a guy who had tried to kill him.

    Don't hide your dirty laundry.
  74. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.

    We have already discussed that Tibet Independence will be a bloody process...

    For the sake of discussion, let's say you gained independence. Tell me how economically, culturally and politically you will run the newly independent Tibet....

    Our Tibetan brothers in China would like to know this

    =====================================

    Tibetan 'brothers' HAH! you lying hypocritical peice of dog-droppings.

    You let the Tibetans decide for themselves. Idiot!
  75. Steve Just Steve, That's All from Canada writes: moe kyaw from richmond, Canada writes: To Bludgen

    After railway reached the west cost in Kanada, natives disappeared or killed or forced to move to north. Samething, new railway was introduced in Tibet last year, their dark-age style culture will disappear, and modern society is coming soon. So you can go there, enjoy your coffee with double-double in a Starbucks, even in a Timmy if the Timmy is not shy to explore abroad. And, you won't see too much temples
    and monks which are not prosuctive in a modern soceity and u actually not want to see in your own country, Right ?

    =========================================

    Oh....well....right. In that case, OK then, carry on with your genocide comrades. Sorry to have disturbed you for nothing.

    Idiot!
  76. Xiao Liu from Columbus, United States writes: Rob D,

    First of all, I don’t think Han Chinese in general have any level of hatred against ethnic Tibetans. Historically Han Chinese culture is among the least aggressive ones (should we say it&8217;s a major demerit of Han people ) among all ethnic cultures in this world. Honestly speaking most of us have always been lectured in the classroom since primary school back in China that there are 56 brother ethnic groups in Chinese family, and we have to live in harmony with our limited resources.

    My wife and myself were working in a university back 20 years ago in China, and she had 2 Tibetan students in her class. Both of them majored in Engineering and we were very close because my wife provide them extra English language tutoring. It&8217;s true that we have been a bit upset and confused after we saw the street violence on the Internet, especially watched those innocent bystanders got killed and burned in such a horrible way.

    Those are not peaceful protections, it&8217;s bloody crime and criminals should be punished.
  77. T Liu from Canada writes: 'An Thornton from Canada writes: Levap K from Burlington, thank you for mentioning Mao and the hypocrisy of the Nanking Massacre still being held against the Japanese today.

    I am deeply disturbed by those labelling the Dali Lama as a terrorist and Andy Lun- you should BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF!

    Being obviously from China, I understand your need to defend your country, as would I if journalists were reporting atrocities in Canada.

    The problem is when you label the Dalai Lama- a spiritual being as a terrorist, you are adding to the already tarnised image that China's government has . '

    Yeah, Dalai Lama was just a spiritual leader before he escaped to india and it was a freedom filled, human rights everywhere tibet when Dalai was there. I'm surprised that no one ever questioned Dalai about the old tibet yet and everyone just assume he was just like the pope in rome. But the point is how much international support you think Dalai would receive if he behave or label himself as someone like mr. Arafat? this is all politics man, it's all about marketing yourself. much like the global warming thing going on right now, its popular and if you support the Green mission you win people's support. just that simple.
  78. Sword Of China from Beijing, China writes: To Rob D.:

    Now turn to Dalai Lama. As I said, I was his fan until last week....

    He kept saying that he wanted nothing more than autonomy for Tibet. However, my understanding is that, the reason last the talk between Dalai Lama and Central Government broke down is because he wanted a Greater Tibet area (any area with Tibetans living be re-classified as Tibet).

    If he is truely against independent, why should he bother with the map first? He can always talke about autonomy first, right?

    It is true that central government re-draw some of the maps during 60's and some of the area surounding Tibet are re-classified for one reason or another. Why you guys bother? We think that you are using autonomy as a prelude for full independence.

    In an article published by BBC a few week before, even the British professors think this is simply not feasible (I can't find the link to the article any more).

    As I explained before, Chinese hates outside interference... his association with CIA, his acceptance of Noble Peace Prize, his Honourable Canadian Citizenship.. will not be viewed as something nice by Chinese....