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Steelworkers union walks away from Dofasco

GREG KEENAN

Globe and Mail Update

Latest comment posted at 6:54 PM EDT 27/03/08

‘There is not sufficient support for collective bargaining at this time,' says Wayne Fraser of the United Steelworkers union ...Read the full article

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  1. MQ9 Reaper from Canada writes: Smart employees keeping union parasites away. It is encouraging to see such trends (here and the Toyota plant last week) as it is decisions like these that will prolong the productivity and competitiveness of Canadian industry.
  2. Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, Canada writes: Looks like another company saved from the vultures. This comapny has grown over the years and the workers make a good living....they would have been screwing themselves royaly if they had let a militant union in their shop
  3. James S from Canada writes: Through family, I know many Dofasco employees, both shop floor and the younger generation in management. You are talking multi-generational and lifetime relationships with Dofasco. It used to be an amazing company. Today, the employees and the retirees alike veiw Dofasco as a completely new entity and they really don't know what to expect.

    One thing is clear, they know the good old days are long gone. I guess their distaste for the USW outweighs their fear of the unknown?
  4. CHP My vote from yoyoland, Canada writes: Good for them! I hope 'Dofasco' stays non-union. Stelco, the Unionized behemoth that nearly bankrupted shows all that's wrong with unions.

    When will they learn to stop trying?
  5. s like from Canada writes: Parasites, vultures? Wow.

    A little latent hostility and you just need someone to dump it on? You're judgements are misplaced; unions have there good points and bad and your opinions sound more like knee-jerk dogma.

    Generally speaking, unions only take hold where employers treat their people poorly and without the efforts of unions decades ago, our working conditions might still look something like China's.

    It's also interesting how people like you never say boo when it comes to excessive executive compensation which far outstrips anything a union does.
  6. Snitter Rowf from Canada writes: Some harsh and, I would say baseless, opinions from a few people here. I'm personally not prone to decide about unions one way or another. The pretty much need to be examined on a case by case basis.

    That being said this talk of union parasites is stupid, arrogant and childish. Dofasco workers have always had a good deal because the company was smart enough to give them whatever Stelco workers got. Stelco had a union, did the fighting and the striking, Dofasco got the benefits without the dues or the downtime from disputes. Very smart business move but this reactionary garbage a few of you like to spew shows you know nothing about why Dofasco isn't unionized.

    As Stelco slowly sinks from sigh, Dofasco employees will find that the new parent company isn't going to be as cleverly generous as the previous owners were.
  7. On the Banks of the Grand from Canada writes: Glad that's over, now we can get back to work - LETS MAKE STEEL!!!!!
  8. Ricky for a Centrist Canada from Canada writes:
    SR - bang on.
  9. Martin Fedgrass from Canada writes: Finally.....sanity!!!!!!!

    TTC workers (I use that word loosely) - take note!
  10. James S from Canada writes: Snitter Rowf : I agree with your comments in general. However, I suggest to you that the old management and way of Dofasco was smarter and better than even you suggest. It went beyond simple 'cleaver generosity' and copy cat agreements to Stelco.

    Employees sincerely believed, at least the several I know (and their colleagues), that Dofasco was a different kind of company. A company that treated its people well and with respect. A retiree was in fact reflecting on this over dinner recently - recalling how a former CEO would know employees on the floor by name.
  11. Bill Turkington from Ottawa, Canada writes: Why is it that any mention of unions in these pages sends a green light to every anti-union bigot out there to bore us with their ignorant, uninformed opinions?

    MQ9 Reaper, please explain how non-unionized firms are more productive than unionized.

    Craig Scott from Republic of Newfoundland, describes the Steelworkers as a 'militant union.'

    The Steelworkers? Militant? Craig, please step away from the liquor cabinet before posting to this forum. Thank you.
  12. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    Not a great week for union bosses. First Toyota then Dofasco said, 'No.'
  13. Arec Bardwin from Canada writes: 'A corporate culture base on quality and productivity.' Well I can see why a union would work then.
    Had their corporate culture been all about inefficiency and red tape on the other hand.....
  14. Sean L. from Toronto Center, last bastion of communism, Canada writes: 's like from Canada writes: Generally speaking, unions only take hold where employers treat their people poorly and without the efforts of unions decades ago, our working conditions might still look something like China's.'

    Oh is that right. Well I guess that explains all the lazy union bums in the uncivil service. Poor government workers, they were forced to pick rice for 18 hours a day for 3 cents a week. Why 2 or 3 civil servants were dying every week due to paper cuts and lack of latte machines. Thank god the union came a long to help them escape these terrible work conditions.
  15. Tosh Nagasaka from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bill Turkington from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Why is it that any mention of unions in these pages sends a green light to every anti-union bigot out there to bore us with their ignorant, uninformed opinions?'

    I am a former Teamster Local 21 and I grew up in the BC interior, which is 'Union country.'

    Unions create an adversarial environment, protect the 'senior' people regardless of there work ethic or productivity, and collect plenty of union dues.

    Good workerd DONT NEED union protection. Plain and simple. They will be compensated based on there value to the entity.

    UNIONS PROTECT THE LAZY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE HARDWORKING.
  16. Al Gorman from Canada writes: The former Teamster has said it best. A clear view from the inside out.
  17. Crimson The-Red from Canada writes: If all those gangster movies taught us anything (Godfather, Scarface, etc.) it is that you should never trust a Turk.
  18. Rosehill Avenue from Toronto, Canada writes:
    No need for me to add much... said very well by the above post....

    Tosh Nagasaka from Vancouver, Canada writes: Bill Turkington from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Why is it that any mention of unions in these pages sends a green light to every anti-union bigot out there to bore us with their ignorant, uninformed opinions?'

    I am a former Teamster Local 21 and I grew up in the BC interior, which is 'Union country.'

    Unions create an adversarial environment, protect the 'senior' people regardless of there work ethic or productivity, and collect plenty of union dues.

    Good workerd DONT NEED union protection. Plain and simple. They will be compensated based on there value to the entity.

    UNIONS PROTECT THE LAZY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE HARDWORKING.
  19. Karen S from Regina, Canada writes: Rosehill Ave - couldn't agree with you more. Personally, the minute unions stop protecting the lazy - 'I don't want to do anything - I don't care if I am not sick I get 1 sick day a month' will be the day I stand up and say yeah unions. I could look past all of the strike actions for rediculous wage increases if only the union would stop protecting their lazy take advantage of everyone workers, and starting protecting the hard working productive employee.

    Bill Turkington - Non-union organizations are more productive because they do not have unions protecting the lazy employee. If you don't do your job you are gone. Period. In a non-union workplace it is ok for John to go over and help Peter when Peter is swamped and John is not - in a union environment that is absolutely not allowed. When workloads are heavy in a non-union environment the attitude of the employees is what can we do to get this done and everyone pitches in to get it done, in the same situation in a union environment the response to heavy workloads is - sorry not my job, or I'm not allowed to help him - he's in a different department.
  20. Rosehill Avenue from Toronto, Canada writes: Actually Karen, that was Tosh Nagasaka who posted the majority of my comment : )

    I wonder when Unions will finally get the hint and be gone. What will it take for Buzz and other union leaders to admit the time for unions has long passed. Why don't they see the big picture that in today's global economy, you can not protect the lazy workers and you must reward the productive ones. You will not attract the capital required to grow the economy or wages within the context of unionized labour. C'mon Buzz et. al., it's not rocket science!

    As global companies decide where to deploy capital, why would I invest in Ontario with high biz taxes and potential unions over inflating costs!? It won't happen.
  21. jan bakker from Canada writes: Now, if we could only get the unions out of health care, we could ecpect better and cheaper services.
  22. George Bishop from Fergus, Ontario, Canada writes: When this old company that used to be Dofasco is closed, these workers will wish they had a Union to make sure they get a decent severance package, the new owners of this Steel plant are not like the former owners, which in time the employees will find out like the workers in Montreal did this week, closed plants and being unemployed
  23. On the Banks of the Grand from Canada writes: Rosehill Ave, the Unions aren't going to go away. They (the leaders) have made a pretty good life for themselves by sticking their hands in their 'brothers' pockets, stirring the pot to agitate the brainless and solving problems that they create so they look good to the members.

    They came to Dofasco, were vague about the benefits of belonging to a union, didn't tell us what we were going to get in return for our dues, couldn't explain how we would be better off and we turned our backs on them.

    I'm surprised it took them a week to figure out there was no interest but I guess they had to give it a shot after being let in through the gate like that.
  24. Rosehill Avenue from Toronto, Canada writes: George Bishop,

    The plants will be closed beacause International companies can pay Mexican or East Indian workers $14/hr or probably less than half of what one would make at Stelco. Like it or not, unions need to get the message that globalization is here to stay. The movement of capital is more mobile agile (and hostile) than ever before
  25. Glenn Stewart from Regina, Canada writes: There sure are a lot of nasty comments about unions based on what I have seen here. In the past when I have heard these kind remarks and been able ask these people making the negative remarks what kind of research have they done to support there views, they give me a stund look and say well I haven't done any research at all. I then say well don,t you think wise person would do this first before making comments about something they clearly no nothing about.

    I at least have studied labour history and attended labour law review courses, although I wouldn,t be so bold as to claim to be an expert I clearly have an educated opinion.Based on what I have seen on this comment page most here know or have research nothing.

    PS Lazy Managers are the ones responsible for so called lazy workers
    passing brobation periods ever heard of progressive diicipline if done correctly it is very effective.
  26. L. W. from Greener Pastures, Canada writes: People always talk about what the unions did years ago. They tend to ignore the fact thet they went too far and crapped in their own nest. The union heads are now guilty of what they used to accuse management of. (exploiting the workers) The unions could once again be a useful force if the membership were to clean house at head office. It is time for the rank and file members to question where their dues are going to, and what is truely being done on their behalf.
  27. Rob G from Ann Arbor, United States writes: Dofasco employees, being workers in a generally unionized industry, have indirectly received the wages and benefits won by their workers elsewhere in the industry. If the unionized mills do, in fact, collapse it may then be in the best interests for the steelworkers at Dofasco to unionize. Until that point, we should have no reason to expect a historically non-union workplace to join the union.

    As a graduate student in economics who studies unions, I, like several other posters, do take offense at some of the wildly uniformed comments posted earlier. There are rational arguments for and against unionism; bigoted rants contribute nothing.
  28. Toast And coffee from Canada writes: L.W from greener pastures...... well said. Unions have been 'resting on their laurels for many years now. I spent over 16 years paying union dues and it was mostly of questionable value.

    Todays unions are all about union dues. Gone are the days when your union organizers were mainly volunteers. The unions are now very top heavy and the primary function is enlisting new members to increase cash flow. One in 50 Union leaders could pass a lie detector test when describing their main goals.

    Many years ago, before labor standards, unions did some fine work. Now they are as useful as buggy whips but more difficult to get rid of as cockroaches. Parasites to be sure!
  29. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: Management gets the union's they deserve. This dictum seems to be working at Dofasco - management is doing a good job and as a result they get no union which is what they deserve for their efforts.

    I always liked the old corporate marketing slogan used by Dofasco.....'Our product is steel but our strength is people'. If more companies adopted that approach the world would be a better place.
  30. Kothar Rumbleg from Canada writes: Unions are nothing but trouble for the company they work for and the spin off areas relying on said companies. Case in point....the American Axle strike in USA has shut down many plants in South Western ontario as they are not getting product. These workers, some of whom I happen to know are now not working getting money, because of greedy union people demanding more more more!
  31. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: People are forgetting that this is no longer DOFASCO.
  32. Stand up for Social Justice The Canadian Way from Canada writes: Toast And coffee from Canada writes:

    Many years ago, before labor standards, unions did some fine work. Now they are as useful as buggy whips but more difficult to get rid of as cockroaches. Parasites to be sure! ================================== I would question your words about labour standards, when many workers are denied labour standards. I think you might want to chat with a young fellow from my community who got crushed by a slab of steel guiding in a load of which he was not trained for. Labour standards my butt.
  33. R P from Steeltown, Canada writes: It's not hard to see the value the union has added to the once mighty Stelco. Merely a shadow of its former self. Not to mention the underfunded pension that ultimately shafted the Stelco retirees that worked so long and hard under the union banner that was intended to protect them. Please regale me with more benefits that a union would provide the workers of Dofasco ....
  34. Don Bryant from Calgary, Canada writes: Dofasco - and, especially, it's employees - have historically been successful precisely because they kept the greedy, parasitic union out. It's good to see that the employees are still using the same common sense that they've always had. Too bad the auto workers don't share that common sense.
  35. The Objectivist from overpopulated Toronto, Canada writes: bunch of grade 9 sociology students posting today - unions only take hold when a company is treating people badly? haha. unions are everywhere and anywhere they can rile the mass up enough to get certified. grow up. However, the problem isn't with unions, the problem is with labour law. For example the gag order on companies to communicate pari passu, or that companies don't have the option of firing workers who refuse to work etc. Have you every read the constraints and brutal inequity imposed on a company while the union is selling themselves? I'm not anti union or pro management - its stupid to be either, what each is is just the product of current system. Where the problem lies is that the loaded dice creates an imbalance, the equilibrium's not quite right. The current form unions take, being out for the union not the worker, is the result to the current labour laws. And whether you like the word or not, it is parasitical because its an economic drag to the nation without creating any GDP. Thing is, ultimately the effect is another reason for value added manufacturing jobs to go to the south, Mexico, China and the third world. Stop naively thinking the unions protect the worker and start worrying about reality - protecting the country's economy.

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