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Professor's new website aims to stop the phone from ringing

MATT HARTLEY

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 10:16 AM EDT 31/03/08

Think of it as a do-not-call registry for the do-it-yourself crowd ...Read the full article

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  1. pierre caron from Montreal, Canada writes: iOptOut.com not online this morning ... ? get an available Domain name not exist message... I want to opt in to iOptOut !!!
  2. Bob F from Toronto, Canada writes: It's iOptOut.ca
  3. Allan Martel from Canada writes: This is a brilliantly simple alternative to waiting for government inaction and a fine example of how the Internet, if properly directed, can be a force of social good.

    Congratulations and many thanks to the good professor for his outstanding vision and for the hard work required to get this site up and running.
  4. J. Douglas from Burlington, Canada writes: Well, I have registered and checked off every orgaization on the system. We'll see if it makes any difference.
  5. Globe Insider subscriber content
    Robert Lannigan from London, Canada writes: iOptOut.com is in fact a telemarketing site guaranteed to make your phone ring more!! The correct address is as mentioned above iOptOut.ca.
  6. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    Terrific idea! Thank you Mr. Geist. Really happy to see Rogers on the list. No more bait and switch cable offers. Please add the Royal Bank. The pests call regardless how many times they're asked to stop.
  7. Frank Streicher from halifax, writes: This article reinforces my view that the $3.00 a month I pay to be unlisted has been some of the best money I have spent in the last ten years, a time period during which I have not received a single telemarketing call .
  8. D D from Canada writes: awesome...meanwhile the site harvests your name and number and sends it to all other companies not on the list....
  9. Erik Richards from Winnipeg, Canada, writes: I'm not as concerned about this being some scam site harvesting names and numbers as I am about the potential to be hacked.

    Thankfully I have a VoIP and I am all but invisible to all call lists. Because the exchange used by our particular VoIP is not a typical customer exchange we've even managed to be avoided from sequential- or random-dial lists. Other than maybe 2 wrong numbers in the last 3 years every time the phone rings it has been someone we have wanted to talk to. And it didn't cost a cent.

    I can't imagine going back. To me, telemarketers are no better than panhandlers on the street. They're worse, actually, because they have come right into my house to disturb me and my family.
  10. Globe Insider subscriber content
    John Dunham from Canada writes: A great idea, but we lose an opportunity to abuse telemarketers. Eg. 'What's your relationship to the deceased' or 'You're jealous because YOU can't hear the voices'.
  11. Encyclopedia Brown from Canada writes: Just think of how much the government spent to come up with their system, and how complicated and ineffective it will be.

    And here is one person who seems to have come up with a simple, effective and easy-to-use plan.
  12. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Good idea, for telemarketers too.

    The registrants do not want to hear from the telemarketers. Phoning them is a waste of time. Telemarketers will save time on useless calls.
  13. Tom Thumb from Canada writes: You know there is a really easy solution to all of this. If you have call display and don't recognize the phone number, DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE. I started doing this years ago and today I'm hardy bothered at all. Once they realize your not going to answer, they stop calling.

    It just amazes me how people are so tied to there phones. It's like Pavlov's Dog, the phone rings and people jump to answer it.
  14. Shane O'Connor from Stratford, Canada writes: The artilce identified the Web Address as .com...it should be .ca...Godaddy has the .com address.
  15. Cookie B from London, Canada writes: I don't see the need for a special web site. The combination of Caller ID and Voice Messaging is all that is necessary. I simply don't answer unless I know it is someone I want to talk to. I especially never answer 'Unknown' calls. Anyone who really needs to talk to me can leave a message.
    Of course it also helps that when I switched from Bell to another carrier my name was dropped from the phone book. Again, people I want to talk to already have my number. It has really made a big difference in cutting down the number of unwanted calls.
  16. S B from Canada writes: Having had to change numbers because of the incessant calling by telemarketers, why not make it illegal to make more than 3 attempts to contact you. Better yet, make it illegal to use automated dialers forcing telemarketing companies to make a cost decision on whether to call someone 20 times a week.
  17. WUP 2008 from Canada writes: What a waste of time. I could think of a 100 other significantly important things a professor could have spent time doing!
  18. A H from Toronto, Canada writes: This website is a perfect example of why we need less government. To think that the gun registry cost over 1 billion dollars!!!!!!!!!! That is itelf a crime beyond belief. This guy could have set it up for 5 grand. Less government the better people.
  19. andre ferguson from waterloo, Canada writes: Those who pay extra for call display or voice messaging or an unlisted number have given in to phone company extortion. Bell welcomes telemarketers for the direct money they bring in and also for the money users pay to block them.
  20. Don Quixote from the frozen Banana Belt, Ont., Canada writes: The telemarketers must be getting desparate: Recession in the upstart mode and no one want's their frothing from paid mouths anyway.

    Can't they just try to join the entertainment sector?
  21. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: As success rates drop, trial frequencies increase. The mentality is that of the spam emailers: if there is one peasant to be robbed out of 10 million people who could rush to Africa from Australia to marry a millionaire princess, then the spammers would send at least 10 million fradulent emails at a time. If people increasingly hate telemarketers and buy from them less and less consequently, telemarketers will keep calling us more and more to be able to sell the same amount of goods. This feedback mechanism has no feeling of shame, it is just about statistics.
    Apart from personal precautions we can take as many posters talked about above, my suggestion is classifying such calls as harassment and strictly outlawing them. There can be no employment policy based on harassment of thousands of individuals in order that one guy sells one useless item to one person and gets a commission. This is neither capitalism nor socialism, it is completely insane. As long as telemarketers cannot call prime ministers' homes, one should not expect much improvement.
  22. Krusty G from Ontariario, Canada writes: With all due respect to charities, political parties, survey firms, newspapers and businesses "with prior relationships" - none of you should be allowed to call me anymore. It is stunning the government has bowed to that much pressure from lobby groups. Where's the lobby group of the people? Oh yeah, we're represented by the 'government' - red or blue, they're still useless.
    It should be illegal to solicit anything by phone. Only charities I would give an exemption to, and even then, I wouldn't shed a tear if they were not allowed either. Sorry, but business ruined that particular avenue of revenue for you - you want to complain, complain to the telemarketers, not to the government or the general public.
    I'm not being grumpy. I give to charity and I participate in surveys (neither of which I would do over the phone). But there is no logical reason why I am being legally FORCED to deal with political parties, newspapers (?!?!), and any business at all UNEXPECTEDLY OVER THE PHONE.
    If I want to throw my money away on politics, I'm sure I can find a party to leech off me with little or no effort. If I want to purchase anything, I can seek it out by any number of means, including the phone.
    And if I want a newspaper subscription, I'll wake up and give my head a shake and remember that the year is 2008, and that we have the Internet now.
  23. Richard Daystrom from Toronto, Canada writes: My favorite telemarketer prank call by Tom Mabe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=un_PjRXV5l8

    I had tears in my eyes while listening to this.
  24. Some Guy from Ottawa, Canada writes: Is there an express or implied agreement between 'subscribers' and the 'ioptoutserver guaranteeing that the users' personal information will only be collected and used under the PIPEDA and Privacy Act guidelines? Is there any obligation upon a Canadian entity who receives a such a request from a third party, asking to cease and stop all forms of unsolicited communication with members of the list?

    Doubtful on all accounts. This is just another handy dandy list that WHEN it falls into the wrong hands will be abused and misused.
  25. Dmytro Marushkevych from Canada writes: Actually, Primus Canada (disclosure: I do work for Primus) is offering a much stronger service that does not rely on telemarketers to take you off their lists or exempts any types of callers – Telemarketing Guard, launched back in September 2007 for our home phone customers. The system automatically identifies mass callers/suspected telemarketers and forces them to announce themselves before phone even rings. Users also maintain their own black and white lists and can report telemarketing calls that actually went through back to the system. Check out http://www.primustel.ca/en/residential/guide/tmg/TelemarketingGuard.html.
    &8220;Unknown&8221; callers are handled by the Privacy Guard feature.
  26. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Perhaps too paranoid a posting mine will be, but having just visited the professor's website, I do not think it is the right address to provide any personal info. Moreover, the owner of the site does not say the system surely works, he "assumes" it will. The last two of FAQs read as follows:
    Are email opt-out requests secure?
    No. Email is not a fully secure method of communication. There is some risk – similar to the risk in using email more generally as a communications method - in using email as a method to opt-out.
    This means, if the info you have provided there is handed out, he can say "I told you, it was stolen."
    Are email opt-out requests valid?
    We believe so. National privacy law does not specify the method of communication between an organization and individual. There is no reason to believe that email is not as valid as any other form of communication. Indeed, the forthcoming do-not-call registry will permit Internet-based registration.
    This means, if you keep on receiving even more calls, he can say "I did not guarantee anything."
  27. G Sears from Ottawa, Canada writes: I have a question: I no longer have a land line and just use my cell phone. I have not had one telemarketer call in 3 years and no surveys either. Am I just lucky or do telemarketers not call cell phone numbers? Now, I am referring to "random" calls by telemarketers and survey companies. The only exception is for businesses where they have my personal information and I get occasional calls asking me to buy more stuff.
    Thanks!
  28. Globe Insider subscriber content
    Runaway 08 from Wet Vancouver, Canada writes: I have Call Display, but I resent having to run to the phone, or wake up from a nap, or check messages, only to find out it was a telemarketer! I also resent having to pay NOT to be listed in the phone book.

    Have asked Ace Carpets and Direct Buy to take me off thier lists - since they DON'T stop calling! - and it hasn't worked.

    But am also nervous about trusting the prof....
  29. Mike - from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    Ghetto Dude - you are indeed WAY TOO paranoid. Geist is just a professor. Worry more about the various companies that have your info and what they do with it (like sell it).
  30. Montgomery C. Burns from Springfield, Canada writes: I currently work for a call centre that does outbound calling or telemarketing. It is a job that I make a living at to feed my family and pay the bills. It really is no different that sales people who make cold calls.

    We live in a consumer society and people like to buy things. How many of us have received unsolicited material such as a flyer in the mail, read an advertisement, or listened to a commercial? Some of this marketing tweaks our interest and we sometimes make purchases as a result.

    Telemarketers work to make money for themselves and their employers. For the most part, we are polite, informative, and are not out to aggravate potential customers. We are calling to see if you are interested in a product or service.

    We get that some people do not wish to be called. We have a DO NOT CALL list. If you wish not to receive future calls, simply ask to be placed on the list and ask for the confirmation number. By law, you can not be solicited for the next three years.

    We will comply with your request. It's that simple.
  31. Richard Ball from Charlottetown PEI, Canada writes: Next, he's going to create a gun-registry so people can register their guns.

    The cost should be somewhat less than the $2,000,000,000 the Liberals spent.
  32. Gordon Murray from Canada writes: It seems to me that however noble the M.Geist plan is, there will be employees within some of those 'not quite spotless' companies that will have incentive to sell/use names forwarded towards opt-out. The generated "mass request" of the article doesn't smack of desirable-direct-security-route along https: (the standard alternative being http:) How would one inject the feeling of security into such generated 'mass request' opt-outs? "It's simple. You fill out the form, selecting specifically the companies you do not want to contact you and, rather than there being, like 'mass marketing' or 'mass mailings', message such as "Just don't call this person...don't call this person soon...don't call this person REAL soon.", there is instead, one secured line at a time, special secured sends (prior authority impelling and finance) in the best interests of snubbed companies to in continuous manner securely cater to. I can almost hear outsourcing Bell employees/agents/outsourcings/whatnot: "Yeah, we're going to secure your forwardings prior standard company channel establishment REAL soon. You can trust us on it." More likely that English gets translated for cartoon columns in like 7 different languages globally via telemarketer 'Come Get Us' magazine. Perhaps that website is really an intended blind, like some roadside hooker sub-entrapment program, towards 'John school' rank swelling, and/or a double blinded study of human behaviour. I can appreciate the 'donations' link on that website and I have $5 ready via Paypal, but I want guaranteed copy of the website's first year report. Sounds fascinating.
  33. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: Montgomery C. Burns from Springfield -

    Like the "do not call list", a total waste of time!

    I solved the problem myself by dumping my land line & switching to a cell phone only, not one single spam call since!

    My blue box is next to my mail box & all material found in it goes directly into the blue box, with the exception of material from businesses I deal with.

    My doors have "No Soliciting" signs on them, I've had numerous occasions when solicitors have still knocked & I totally ignore them. One even walked into my backyard when I didn't answer the front door. I advised him he had 5 seconds to exit the premises or I would exercise my full legals rights to remove him, including using the shovel I had in my hand at the time, he was gone in 2 seconds!

    I canceled my television services last year & rarely see ads on the Internet, when I do their IP is placed in my host file or IP blocker never to be seen again.

    If I wanted your product or service I would already have it, simply put your invading my privacy & it won't be tolerated!
  34. Mr. Coffee from Victoria, Canada writes: Caller I.D., baby! If I don't recognize the number or name, it goes unanswered. Blocked calls & unknown numbers are also ignored. If it's so great, leave a message. Well guess what? Telemarketers never do.

    Problem solved.
  35. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: brian bishop from Brantford, Canada, my precautions here in Istanbul are similar to those of yours though telemarketing is less of a problem here. It is a big nonsense to contact your harasser not to harass you, or pay someone for something which should not have been done would not be done, as Runaway 08 from Wet Vancouver says. They are not 1 or 2: if you have to tell each and every company not to call you one by one, and even if they stop calling you only for 3 years, you will probably have to talk to one of them almost twice weekly throughout your life, given there are 150 of them in Canada.
    Phone perverts: In Istanbul, the reputable international companies to whom you had to provide your real contact info both regularly call you (a cell phone does not discourage HSBC or Citibank at all) for talking about this or that service and send at least 3-5 SMSs each month if you have an account with them. Caller ID measure is not the ultimate solution: when you do not answer a certain call, the same number just keeps calling everyday. Incoming private numbers to cell phones are now being automatically disconnected even without ringing you if you changed your settings here, and they switched to numbers with IDs. We definitely are not among those who publish their addresses and cellphones on the Facebook or fill in survey forms here and there, but still cannot stop them.
    Home intruders: We are living in a downtown bulding and I connected a switch to our apartment's door bell from inside: it enables or disables the bell. Family members never ring the door and when we are not expecting anyone, its default position is disabled. Still, one or two persons physically knock the door monthly.
    Spammers: In addition to emails or posted material, even spam faxers are at our service! There are web-based services enabling spam faxing at near to zero cost.
    I need land lines, a fax, bank accounts, broad band internet and emails to work. Shall we move to a cave?
  36. Some Thoughts from Canada writes: Sounds like a good idea, I am going to go right now and-wait, I hear the phone ringing, will be right back.....
  37. Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes:
    Coincidence? Less than 24-hours after registering at ioptout.ca I received a Nigerian bank scam e-mail with a cover letter from an FBI agent verifying its legitimacy. Both are "firsts" for me.

  38. Mia Culpa from Togo writes: Montgomery C. Burns from Springfield, Canada writes: "I currently work for a call centre that does outbound calling or telemarketing... We are calling to see if you are interested in a product or service."

    =================================================

    How about I call you, if I'm interested in your product???????
  39. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Gardiner Westbound, I insist on my premise that even if that website itself may not be just another phishing one (I have serious reasons to doubt) there is no https address in it, meaning all you write there is VISIBLE to bad guys. Try registering there with some dedicated fake info you did not use before, and see if you start receiving emails from "Nigerian" banks. Another fact that makes me suspect about it is that, what if I fill it with some other people's real data? How does it authenticate me and prevent me from writing there my neighbour's name who might be loving to receive calls from telemarketers, supposing it does what it says? I tell you friends, be more prudent.
  40. Nick Flemming from Toronto, Canada writes: Have any of you checked with your sons and daughters before you blindly sign/encourage such lists...you could very well be putting your loved ones out of a job! Politely telling someone "I'm not interested" is much better in my eyes then shutting down the telemarketing industry. You would ALL be surprised to know the percentage of time "respectable" jobs require mandated cold calling. Think bankers, charities, hospitals, dental and medical offices etc.......
  41. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: Nick Flemming from Toronto -

    Have you also took into consideration who pays for these cold calls?

    If charities use call centers, now part of your donation has just been wasted calling people!

    No wonder they have to keep calling people, it's to help recoup the money lost from calling people the last time. What a vicious cycle & you expect me to waste my hard earned money on them, their as bad if not worst than the governments & their use of consultants!

    I've never had or heard of hospitals or dentists calling people, except to schedule appointments. As for banks it's always postal mail, you sure the bank isn't calling to find out where last months mortgage payment is!

    Have you ever tried to get say "I'm not interested" to a telemarketer, their trained to ignore you & keep right on talking....
  42. Nick Flemming from Toronto, Canada writes: Poor poor argument Brian Bishop, by your logic we should shut down all charities...(I agree their allocation of resources is less then ideal,) but calling makes up a very very small portion compared to what paper pushers and "executives" cost...and the callers bring in the $$$!.

    PS: My dentist called me last week trying to sell me a "tooth whitening" secession, and I get monthly calls from hospitals looking for donations.

    My point...think of the people (you know) who will loose jobs if this really catches on. I'm sure you can see my point...
  43. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: "Nick Flemming from Toronto, Canada writes: Poor poor argument Brian Bishop, by your logic we should shut down all charities...(I agree their allocation of resources is less then ideal,) but calling makes up a very very small portion compared to what paper pushers and "executives" cost...and the callers bring in the $$$!."

    No I have no problem with charities, removing their tax free status along with religious institutions would be my choice. Do you have any proof to back up those other claims?

    "PS: My dentist called me last week trying to sell me a "tooth whitening" secession, and I get monthly calls from hospitals looking for donations."

    Business must be slow for your dentist, I've seen those lottery dream home draws for hospitals but never heard of them calling for donations. We should look into this if their using call centers, this would be an extraordinary waste of taxpayer money & should be stopped!

    "My point...think of the people (you know) who will loose jobs if this really catches on. I'm sure you can see my point..."

    People loose their jobs all the time, look at the auto industry, I've watched thousands of jobs leave my city in the last 5 years. It's no big deal, people are very versatile, they move on & survive just like before.
  44. Phil H from Canada writes: Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: As success rates drop, trial frequencies increase. The mentality is that of the spam emailers: if there is one peasant to be robbed out of 10 million people who could rush to Africa from Australia to marry a millionaire princess, then the spammers would send at least 10 million fradulent emails at a time.

    Email spammers can send so many spams because its virtually free to do so. Telemarketing costs money: (mainly, paying a live person to be at the other end of the line.) As success rates drop, it's no longer cost-viable.
  45. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Phil H, I actually do not know the cost structure of telemarketing. However, I assume that the marginal cost of one call - meaning the cost of one additional call - is near to zero.
    Do those live people who call us have a salary if nothing is sold? If yes, is it something significant? If 100 numbers they dial do not respond or refuse to talk, will they not simply dial 100 others? Are there not web-based dialing methods with a fixed price and no dialing costs even if you dial a million numbers? I guess apart from the rent and the equipment, there is no cost when there is no sales.
    This is about fixed and variable costs: if the 95% of your costs is fixed and the 5% is variable, you can easily increase production, which is "calling us" in this industry. And of course they cannot make calls as many as spam emails, I did not say that. If their success rates drop to very very low levels, then you will be right, less people will open up such facilities right from the start.
  46. Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: brian bishop from Brantford, in blocking all advertising and so-called unwanted intrusion on your privacy, I would say you are probably one of the least informed individuals on the block. Don't be so proud of your worldly ignorance.

    Might I suggest that you try moving into a monastery. I understand that no advertising is allowed there and there is the side benefit that it might do wonders for your miserable soul. Think of it, Brian, privacy and no advertising.
  47. Steve Monaghan from Vancouver, Canada writes: I only have a cell these days, but migrated the number from my old landline because it's been my business number for a long time. This was a bad idea...I get more telemarketing calls than any other kind. I found out that my cell company and others include your number on a list they make available to marketers UNLESS YOU ASK THEM TO TAKE YOU OFF. Or course they don't let you know this list exists, and by the time you find out it's too late. My wife registered a new landline and asked to be taken off this list right off the bat, and she hasn't received any telemarketing calls on it yet.

    The majority of my telemarketing calls come from the US...VA, MD, FL, and MI for the most part. I wonder if the Canadian do-not-call registry will even affect them. And for those of you who think telemarketers don't want their time wasted, I wonder why some of these calls are for contests that say (right in the recorded message!) they are only open to US residents. WHY THEN ARE THEY CALLING A CANADIAN AREA CODE? Clearly it costs them less to just make these useless calls than to edit their autodialer's lists.
  48. aging oldtool from Canada writes: Aw, relief, spelled ioptout.ca.

    Now this is what I call a good news story.

    Elmo Harris from Niagara, your tirade at Brian Bishop reads to me that you feel you've lost.

    What is it? Are you a telemarketer, by any chance?

    Good on you Brian Bishop. So what if Harris thinks you're missing out on the world. In the case of telephone pests, ignorance (of their messages) surely is bliss.

    You've turned this story into a double-plus good news day.

    Orwell is smiling.
  49. brian bishop from Brantford, Canada writes: aging oldtool - Thank You!

    Ah Elmo Harris, what can I say.

    Well in the 6 months I've been without TV, I've paid off my mortgage & become debt free, driven my car half as much. That incessant need to shop is gone, while friends & neighbors are scurrying about I'm relaxing. Writing, reading going for a walk, even have time to learn more computer programming languages, brushing up a Python & trying Lisp again with much better success. I even curled up in a sleeping bag on my deck for several hours during the eclipse & took some great pictures.

    I wonder becoming debt free was that a result of no advertising, or the abundance of free time I've been able to direct towards my investments, now that I'm nolonger sitting in front of a TV 25 hours a week?

    That's a great idea though, I should register my property as a monastery & get the additional tax deductions.

    worldly ignorance, I like that phrase but I think you were referring to yourself not me. I learn more about the world in a single day of reading & surfing the Internet than you likely do in an entire year.
  50. aging oldtool from Canada writes: I just love it when telemarketers come on and claim to be just providing an important service like "to see if you are interested in a product or a service." If I am interested in a product or a service, I'll do what I do each week when I have to replentish my food, go and purchase it. I really don't need someone who has just read a script on one product, doesn't want me to even think of comparing it to similar products by competitors and even if he/she wanted to help me, hasn't a clue about the competing products. Off course he/she would be sent packing for even mentioning a competitor's name by a supervisor who is listening in and cracking the whip. It's not like telemarketing is a career type of job or something you can raise a family on. Burnout in almost an expectation, the pay is crap, high stress levels are the norm and the turnover rates are extreme. As for the suggestion we should "just be polite" to someone who intrudes into our life for their own monetary gain, I can't believe anyone has the gall to even try that line. I'd rather a dozen door to door sales people banging on my door every day than having to run to the phone while cooking or something only to hear the faint buzz of an empty line. That's the experience when this industry uses computer driven mass calling phoning dozens or hundred of people at once. The first of all those people who lifts the phone up loses and get to deal with the sales pitch, while all the other lines are cut off. After several of those you begin to wonder who's casing your house too see if you're home? Paranoid? Hardly. Some ads to hire people for these jobs suggest they are "high tech" or "in the growing computer industry". Wow. Modern day slave gallies, is more like it.
  51. Paul Sweeney from Canada writes: I signed my folks up to this do not call service.

    I also tired this (I found this explained on a tech-news site):

    The sound that you hear when you dial a number that is out of service is called a SIT (Special Information Tones) signal. You can download the SIT for an out of service number in a lot of places (google 'SIT-VC.wav'). If you download and record this sound onto your answering machine then when auto-callers hear that sound the tone will 'trick' the computerized auto-dialer into thinking that your number is out of service and your number should not get dialed by that computer system any more...

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