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Toronto's postmortem begins in earnest

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Change is imminent for team that is missing the playoff for the third consecutive year
...Read the full article

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  1. George Hall from Canada writes: To assess any organization you have to look at the people behind it.
    In the case of Toronto with their ownership and management team they truly and honestly have no hope whatsoever.
  2. j wilson from vancouver, Canada writes: The Toronto Cubs.
  3. The Artist from Halifax, Canada writes: "At this point, only the big bosses -- Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment chairman Larry Tanenbaum and President Richard Peddie -- are secure."

    Let me add these comments....

    "because they have done such a great job."

    lol
  4. Hap Stokes from Canada writes: Toronto Sports Network's, Daren Gregor on Vanc Talk Radio CKNW talking about what else??? the Toronto Maple Leafs--To all 5000 Leaf fans in Vancouver (well maybe 6000). Is that egocentric or what? Bet he votes Liberal too.

    Keep it up David, bet I know how you vote.
  5. Frank Godfrey from Canada writes: The hordes of Toronto fans around the globe should unite in prayer to their chosen deity for the Leafs. What the hell have we got to lose. Watching, for as long as I could, the Habs toying with the Marlies Saturday night was the season in a nutshell.
  6. The Artist from Halifax, Canada writes: Frank Godfrey from Canada:

    Not to rub it in -- well, maybe I am --- However, what you saw last night was actually a number of the Hamilton Bulldogs toying with the Leafs...

    There is always room for one more on the Habs' bandwagon, however...
  7. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Hap Stokes.... some of those Leaf fans have never voted liberal in their lives... and wouldn't ... even with a gun pointed at their heads.

    Cheers

    Frank and Robert.... Marlies and a few bulldogs? Yes.

    Trade you for Stewart...

    Cheers
  8. Bill Weston from Grand Rapids, MI, United States writes: As an outsider, I just wanted to say that Ive really enjoyed reading most of these posts this season.. with a few notable exceptions from authors who shall remain nameless. From the outsiders perspective, it really is sad to see what the once proud Leafs have become. As a kid and a Wings fan, back in the days of the Original 6 when the Leafs featured the likes of Bower, Keon, Pulford, Mahovlich, Baun, and so many others over the years, this was one of the teams that epitomized hockey to me. And with the Wings having players like Howe, Lindsey, Crozier, Delvecchio, Abel, Gadsby, what a rivalry there was, right down to the train trips back and forth between Detroit and Toronto for the back to back games! Now THAT was hockey. I was never a Leafs fan, the Wings and Habs were always 'my teams' but the Leafs were always the team every Wings fan loved to hate. Now of course they play each other so seldom but for those of us who remember, the rivalry remains. The Leafs deserve so much better then what theyve become. Leaf fans deserve so much better. Heres an outsiders wishes that whoever the new GM turns out to be, hes given free reign to do whatever it takes to turn this storied franchise around. Can it be done without a change in ownership to go with it? You guys would know the answer to that one better then I would but heres hoping.
  9. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Nicely said Bill Weston.

    Cheers to that.

    How about another round of Tigers and Jays for the American League Championship?

    Cheers
  10. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Shoalts says that changes are imminent - that means just around the corner (or in the case of the leafs, just around the coroner).

    The autopsy is about to begin and the lifeless corpse that is the Leafs will be found to have been eviscerated by groups unknown.

    There will also be the challenge of dissecting the brain, but with micro-surgery, there is hope even there.

    Overwhelmingly though, the coroners will need earplugs, for from the first cut, the whining will begin.

    What will the coroner's jury recommend? Do they have the mandate to trace the rot all the way to the top or does their task end, by definition, with the article of faith to be invested in the as-yet-to-be-named GM?

    Look at the names Shoalts bandies about - only Rutherford is remotely possible and this only because his team narrowly missed the playoffs again.

    Imminent indeed - but then again, imminent is a great excuse for a daily Leafs column all through the playoffs, isn't it?
  11. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Allan... come on... Shoalts is writing off other peoples articles and the blogs....

    Fletcher will probably get the president role.
    Burke is best bet for GM.

    4 moves and the leafs challenge next year. You know it and I know it.

    But... what if they trade Toskala for Stamkos pick?

    Cheers
  12. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Shoalts says that the Leafs postmortem begins in Earnest. I looked on Google Maps, MapQuest and MS Streete and Trips but I couldn't find any reference anywhere to a city, town, or village called Earnest.

    Since Shoalts is never wrong and since Earnest doesn't exist, should I conclude that even the Leafs postmortem is going nowhere?

    Could it be that Earnest id the Leaf Nation Narnia - full of Lions, Witches and Wardrobes?

    Or is all this taking place somewhere in Oz? Can it be that Darcy Tucker is really the wicked witch of the West? Do the Leafs take turns playing the Tin Man with no heart.

    McCabe showed us the other night that he is no more than a malicious version of the Cowardly Lion. And what to make of ToTo except that the mire surrounding the Leafs is simply too too much.

    So Dorothy, this ain't Kansas that's for sure and the monster that is the emptiness at the heart of the Leafs might be like Nessie - except, of course, that it lives in Earnest.

    You doubt me you say, well you may be right for the Leafs greatest failure is surely a lack of Earnestness.
  13. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: LOL Allan...

    If the Leafs can get rid of Tucker, Blake, McCabe and Raycroft next year.. without a serious Cap hit... My bet is they compete.

    Cheers
  14. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Good morning Scot

    I agree with you that with the right changes, the Leafs can and will compete, even win the Stanley Cup.

    The problem is that like Kilgore Trout in a Kurt Vonnegut novel, the Leafs are unstuck in space and time, freefalling in a vacuum of talent and class from one void to another.

    Still, for leaf Nation faithful, there is a place and a time for the Leafs to win it all, to recapture their former glory.

    The only problem is that the place is Never Neverland and not even Tinkerbell can get that stinker Bell to fly.
  15. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Kilgore Trout... ouch.. we read the same books. Try some Richard Morgan or some Peter Hamilton.

    I will always be a Leaf fan... delusional as that may be.

    But I am always a hockey fan.... and will watch the playoffs (and comment) and the world Championships. (and comment).

    For the record... Montreal, Pens, Phili and NYR in the east.

    Detroit, SJ, Ahanheim and Colorado in the west.

    Cheers
  16. Allan Martel from Canada writes: Scott

    As usual for a Leafs fan, another half truth. :-))

    Habs, Sens, Caps and Rangers in the East.

    No comments on the west.

    I've never read Hamilton or Morgan but I'll look them up.

    (Sens will take out the Pens in 6).
  17. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Allan... if the Sens win... they are favourites in the east.

    Cheers
  18. Bill Weston from Grand Rapids, MI, United States writes: Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: How about another round of Tigers and Jays for the American League Championship?

    That works for me, Scot, but first Im looking forward to a long and victorius spring for the Wings! Then it will be baseball time. Anyone else remember when the playoffs were done in April? Ahh, the good old days.
  19. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: btw .... highly recommend Richard Morgan
  20. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Bill.... not quite sure on April... I certainly remember watching the Habs beat the Bruins on the May 24 long weekend.

    Last time I saw the Leafs win it was May 02, 67..

    I watched the parade just before my 10th birthday

    Cheers
  21. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: It's not fun missing the playoffs again. I will enjoy the hockey this spring and am really excited for Washington and would love to see them do well but when your team isn't playing, it's just not as fun.

    I can handle the losing this year but its all the other things that embarass fans and make the organization look so classless that really bother me. Way to many excuses made, too much complaining about officials, chalking it up to injuries but never a player called out for poor performance or the team's inability to play within themselves. Leaving Ferguson as a lame duck since day 1 and McCabe playing down the stretch like he didn't care and then tarnishing the leaf jersey he should consider himself lucky to wear at the end of the Montreal game...that just summed the whole season up for me. One circus act after another.

    This team had no identity other than nothing was the fault of the players or management, yet they couldn't win.

    I think a better coach and someone willing to bench star players could have had this team in the 8th spot but I would have been happy with an organization that acted with some dignity and class.
  22. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Nice Heartfelt post JR

    Cheers
  23. Allan Martel from Canada writes: JR makes a lot more sense in Halifax than he used to in Dallas.
  24. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: I haven't been back to Dallas since they shot me...I still don't know who though??
  25. George E. Porgie from Canada writes: Allan, Scot, JR from Halifax, and so many more ....

    I was a latecomer to this forum this season. However, I really enjoyed reading your many well written and well thought out inputs about our favourite team.

    I have followed and supported the Leafs for many, many years. I now live in eastern Ontario so I am amongst a few out this way who still defend the "Blue". The palpable hatred of Toronto down here is something to behold. Still cannot figure out why this feeling is so strong but alas, it is only " sports entertainment".

    Sens out in 5 is my best guess. Too many key injuries, still have trouble defensively and have not played consistently for several months. Too bad as being a hockey fan I would like our Canadian teams to do better.
  26. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: George... you may be late... but you offer good observations.

    I agree.

    Your comments are welcome as well... we now have the second season to pay attention to.

    Cheers
  27. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: George,

    Thanks for referring to my incessant whining as well thought out!

    I agree with you on the Sens and its not because I am a leafs fan. All year I thought this little bit of adversity would do them well but its gone on way too long and I think they are a fragile team now, healthy or not. Good news for them though is no matter how they do this playoff they are still contenders next year and require a little tweaking...and an undisputed number 1 goalie!

    I'm loving how the caps are coming on. Ovchekin is a man on a mission and I think he will be a playoff producer. I can't just pick a team to cheer for when the leafs are out, one always kind of picks me and its Washington this year.

    That's bad news for them though....I am pretty sure I am the kiss of death!
  28. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: LOL J R..... kinda mimics my betting habits.

    This year is totally the west .... unless the beat the hellll out of each other getting to the final.

    I hate Philidelphia... but I am picking them because I think Washington and there young team blew their load getting to the playoffs.

    I hope I am wrong.... maybe Federov and Gonchar can keep them going... but I have no confidence in Huet or Kolzig.

    ugh...

    Kinda like Pens and Ottawa... if the Sens can pull it out.. they become faves in the East.

    Whatever... tis going to be fun to watch.

    Cheers hockey fans.
  29. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: The problem with the Leafs is not the players or the owners, it's the fans.

    The Leafs did not fail this year, they were the most successful team in hockey yet again. They will not win anything next year, nor should they. This is a for profit enterprise and to spend money to win makes no sense when they already sell out every night. Until the well dries up, expect the same lacklustre roster as you've seen since the sixties.

    There's a reason players on this team want no trade clauses, because why would you ever leave a city that treats and pays you like a God even when you're flirting with last place all year?

    What a bunch of suckers.
  30. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Dwide,

    Who is being treated like a god in Toronto? It's often referred to as one of the toughest sports markets to play in. The media and fans are demanding and often unfair.

    And they are there to make money? True. What about the other teams? They are charitable organizations? Hate to tell you but the playoffs are lucrative and if you build a playoff team you make more money.

    Now if the Leaf's were not one of the biggest spenders and had cap room I might agree with you but the arguement they just make money and don't care about winning is getting old and simply doesn't make sense. They want to make money and winning makes them money. Plain and simple. This is why so much was spent before the cap came in to have teams that could win playoff rounds and hopefully compete for a cup.
  31. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Sorry Dwide... you are incorrect.

    Season ticket holder here... and it aint about us......

    They budget based on 1 or 2 rounds in the playoffs.... that;s it.

    Ain;t our fault.

    Cheers
  32. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: Scot,

    Keep thinking that. I figure you must be in your fifties if you can afford season tickets which means you might be old enough to actually have been around the last time these guys won the cup.

    In the meantime, think about the money you spend on those tickets and how hard you work to earn it and the product that they gave you in return for the last several months. Then think about the profit they made. Profit means money after expenses remember. Think about how much of your money is left over after they've paid for another losing season that goes into the pockets of the teachers pension and a bunch of other major corporations.

    Then when they make some acquisition of a few aging players who were good back in 1995 this Summer and people start to talk about how "this is the year" realize that's its been happening since you were a kid. Just try to think for a second that maybe they don't actually care about you because if it weren't your money plunked down to watch them lose, it'd be some other sucker willing to pony up his cash in the hopes of reliving some distant feeling of glory.

    I pity you.
  33. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Dwide,

    Yes you do understand profit. Now consider those player expenses as fixed, and they are with the exception of performance bonuses.

    So if they make the playoffs, don't you think they make more money? Increases ticket sales, TV revenue, concessions but the players earn the same salary. Why wouldn't they want to go deep?

    The 80's tought us that the leaf's would sell out with ANY team on the ice so why spend up to the cap limit then?

    The team is about to use buyouts to make improvement. There could not be a more expensive way to rebuild.

    The team spends a ton of money. Not wisely, but they spend in an attempt to win.
  34. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Dwide Schrude...

    Correct on all counts.

    But you and those that blame us (the fans) are missing the point.

    Should we choose to give up our tickets.... the lineup is a mile long to take them over.

    The solution to the TML is much much more complicated.

    Cheers
  35. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: 41 years and counting. You guys are all correct. The Leafs love their fans and will win the cup next year...

    Seriously, read McLeans this week. The article there says it all.
  36. Guess Who from Canada writes: Toronto is bad accross the board:
    pollution
    over-crowded
    too pricy for what you get
    losing hockey team
  37. Proud Canadian from Canada writes: Scotty Loucks, like your idea of Tigers/Jays in a Series. But one problem, the Tigers have to win. Jays are doing their part, Tigers are at least 0 4 to start the season.
  38. J K GALBRAITH from Canada writes: Scott: I don' think you can get rid of those four players without a serious cap hit. Therefore, keep all of them except Raycroft. This seems counter to the idea that the Leafs should buy out all them. However, what do you get when you buy all of them out. Nothing and you eat up lots of cap room. What happens if you keep them? You keep your fleibility for cap room and you have the opportunity to get something back for these players. Lets take Bryan McCabe for an example. Yes, I agree he is overpaid for what he produces. However, it was no coincidence that the Leafs worse stretch of the year did occur while he was out with injury and certainly played much better with him in the lineup playing 20 to 25 minutes a year. McCabe will make $5.4 million a year next year and only have 2 years left on his contract. There would likely be a couple of teams next year looking for an experienced defenseman to upgrade with during the year. Two teams that come to mind would be Chicago and likely the NYR if they lose out in the first round of the playoffs. If McCabe could go to the NYR, then I think he would waive his no trade clause. Jason Blake has no trade value after his poor performance this year. He will make about $4 million next year but only $3 million a year for the following years of his contract. Thus if he rebounds to the 25 to 30 goal mark next year, he becomes very tradeable to a tema that needs more offense going into the playoffs. By keeping these two players rather than buying them out, you have a chance to get a couple of high draft picks or up and coming players from other teams that need to make a good show in the playoffs. I would prefer that approach than tying up salary cap space for players that are not even playing for your team. Use the window to trade Kubina over the summer. It was also too bad that JFJ was not able to sign Peca last summer as he would have made the penalty killing much better. Will he be available this year?
  39. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: PC.. long season... just ask the red sox.

    Dwide.... the McLeans article is full of shite..... Nothing new there I'm afraid.

    You leaf haters need to pay way more attention than a Mcleans article.

    Cheers
  40. Are We Having This Conversation ? from Toronto, Canada writes: I am ashamed to say that once again Toronto is the laughing stock of the hockey world - YET AGAIN!!!
    I am a Toronto fan, have always been a fan and stupidly I continue to be a fan. However, when it comes to the playoffs, whether the Leafs are in it or not, I cheer for all Canadian teams because it is time a Canadian team win it! (but I can't cheer for the Sens!)
    Having said that.....Go Canada Go and bring the Stanley Cup back to Canada!!!
    As a die hard Leafs fan I am also going to say: ENOUGH LEAF STORIES...LET US CHEER FOR THE CANADIAN TEAMS WHO GIVE A DAMN!!
  41. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: J K...well thought out... but some mistakes.

    Try this.

    McCabe is 6.15 next year then 4.15 for the next two.... so... I agree no buyout... but can we trade him?

    Blake doesn't have a no movement.... waive him.... somebody will take him at 2m per season. Same with Raycroft at half of 2.2m. If they don't then the Leafs pay for the most expensive AHL team is history.... big deal.

    Tucker is tradeable.... he just has to give his consent.... Tell him he is 4th line player next year and embarrassed... he will go (same for McMistake).

    Kubina can go... but do we want him to go?

    Cheers
  42. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: Scot Louks and J R, I quit. You guys win. I relent.

    I will no longer try to appeal to Leafs supporters that the only way they will ever see a championship team is to completely turn their backs on them.

    I guess I'll wish you both good luck and will say that until you stop spending and supporting you have no right to be upset when they keep on losing. You guys are like people in abusive relationships who inexplicably keep returning to the abusive spouse in the hopes that "they've changed, this time they'll be different."
  43. Bill Weston from Grand Rapids, MI, United States writes: Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Last time I saw the Leafs win it was May 02, 67.. I watched the parade just before my 10th birthday.

    I remember that one, Scott.. Bower and Sawchuck vs Vachon and Worsley with Jim Pippin getting the winning goal in game 6. Talk about names from the past!

    Just as an aside, based on points this season and understanding that we dont play each other regularly and all the other differences now, the Original Six positioning would be Detroit in first, Montreal second, followed by the Rangers, Bruins, Hawks and Leafs. With the first place versus 3rd, and 2nd versus 4th formula from 1967, that would be Wings vs the Rangers with the Canadiens going against the Bruins. Makes me feel like a kid again just thinking about it.
  44. J K GALBRAITH from Canada writes: Scott: I am reluctant to buy out long term contracts that will go against your salary cap for several years. I heard Craig Button on one of the trade day shows talk about the conversation he had with Scott Pioli, the GM of the New England Patriots about how to manage in a salary cap system. Pioli's advice is to retain your flexibility as much as possible. Tying up money through buyouts reduces that flexibility. As well, the Leafs need to build up their pool of prospects. Keeping the multi-year contract people with the anticipation that they will perform back to their career averages and trading them when the remainder of the contracts are more sensible for other teams in exchange for draft picks or other prospects seems like a better approach. At the same time the Leafs must make some changes and Kubina's contract has the window to make that happen.
  45. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Dwide Schrude ;

    please dont quit. You offered good comment.

    Its' just not as simple as you make it out to be.

    We do hear you.

    Cheers
  46. Scot Loucks from Pickering, Canada writes: Agreed J K.

    Buyouts are like using a credit card.

    Waivers and threats... waivers on Blake , Raycroft and Bell? Bell maybe..

    Threats are McCabe and Tucker.

    Cheers
  47. J.C. Petite from Toronto, Canada writes: Scot, whats all the talk about McCabe and the Habs game?? I didnt see the very end of the game. Did he do something regrettable?
  48. Allan Martel from Canada writes: The problem with keeping any of the deadwood is that rot spreads as from one apple to the whole barrel.

    The last thing the Leafs need is the do nothing attitude of the underperformers sucking the life out of the newbies playing their hearts out.

    You teach by example and the best example of all is to cut the deadwood in a public manner to embarass the hell out of the cut players. This then is the fate awaiting any other free agents who come to the Leafs as part of their pre-retirement plans.

    Trying to correct this mess with anything short of expensive and painful major surgery is not going to fix the problem. Bite the bullet - hard - and bite it now.

    If the deadwood cannot be traded within the next month or so, buy them all out or send them down. Be careful not to screw up your future though by putting non performing whiners into the middle of your future, the Marlies.

  49. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Bill Weston- It's Jim Pappin, but thanks for the memories. Don't blame the fans as Mr.Loucks has stated. Don't you get it? We are fans. We like the Leafs for whatever reason. Yes, we do not like what we see but hope springs eternal. As for the Leaf stories, even I agree-enough is enough. Let's have a ban on Leaf stories until the draft. Please?
  50. J K GALBRAITH from Canada writes: Allan: In theory your point about getting rid of the deadwood makes sense. However, in a salary cap era you have to be much more strategic in what decisions you make or you tie your hands even more down the road. That's why I would not buy everyone out all the underperformers (Blake, Tucker,) or the overpaid (McCabe, Kubina et. al)
    However, changing the makeup of the team prior to the season starting does not make sense. That is why you trade Kubina with the window you have and move out Steen, Stajan, and Ponikarovsky and sign some veteran leadership and experienced people for one year contracts such as Mike Peca or possibly Teppo Numminen from Buffalo. This changes the chemistry, creates some space for younger players to get more ice time and develop but does not hinder your ability in three years when you need some extra room to get that key free agent to make you a contender for the Stanley Cup.
  51. Dwide Schrude from Canada writes: Damien Cox says "The NHL does not have a cap if your team is willing to send players to the minors" or something to that effect. As long as you still pay them their salary it does not count as team salary under the cap with them in the minors.

    I think a few weeks in the minors for Tucker, McCabe and Kubina would be good for the team as those guys would most likely leave and it would also be a hilarious example of the potential pitfalls of not being willing to exit gracefully from a team by waiving your no trade clause when it's clear the relationship has run its course.

    A lot of commentators always say "Can this team survive re-building years?" What are they kidding. The fans will be there no matter what, and they're used to not making the playoffs anyway. Just cut all the cancer out right now, they'll still sell out ACC either way and by 2010 they may actually be a contender.
  52. Bill Weston from Grand Rapids, MI, United States writes: Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: Bill Weston- It's Jim Pappin, but thanks for the memories.

    Paul, youre absolutely right.. my apologies. Sadly, memory fades with age, at least about the details.
  53. Czar Nicholas from Ottawa, Canada writes: Tough decisions and many hands are ties. As The Artist posted near the top, "At this point, only the big bosses -- Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment chairman Larry Tanenbaum and President Richard Peddie -- are secure."

    The postmortem will tell you that even after death that cancer will be eating away at every organ.

    A GM/President (tandem or one guy) with carte blanche could turn things around in a few seasons.

    I think Raycroft and Bell on waivers would get picked up. I'm not sure if Bell should be done after this season or given a full chance next season. i don't want to list the excuses, but his season was just too distracted.

    Blake would be unlikely to move on waivers I would think. Maybe a deal could be made for an underperformer from somewhere with a higher salary/shorter remained.

    Tucker could probably still be shopped. He is overpriced but I think many GMs think that with a change of pace and role he could be productive.

    Toskala is a keeper and Clemeson/Pogge should serve well.

    rest to follow...
  54. Czar Nicholas from Ottawa, Canada writes: continued...

    McCabe... overpaid, but I think much like Tucker a change of venue (hello Long Island) could be good. The Islanders are pretty trim now of their extra fat, so a deal could be tricky.

    Realistically, the Leafs have no shot at acquiring the top pick this summer. They don't have the assets I think to pull it off and other teams would probably have similar offers. And if it is LA that wins, they are in full rebuild mode already...

    Shouldn't resign Sundin as he is taking 20 minutes a game from developing (and perhaps growing to used to having Sundin bail the team out) centres.

    Shop Poni, keep Antropov.

    The young defense still have a chance, with a new coach.
  55. J R from Halifax, Canada writes: Dwide,

    I would love to see those guys do time in the minors, and even better, someone pick them up on waivers. Problem is some have no movement clauses which will not allow them to be sent down. JFJ did a great job in securing them as leafs for the long term.

    I also think you need to be a little careful about how you treat them publicly, otherwise it may be even more difficult to get people to sign with the leafs in the future.
  56. Larfing Outloud from Virgin Islands (British) writes: Unfortunately, the guy ultimately responsible will get to keep his job.

    Stuck with passive Peddie.
  57. Paul I from Rochester NY, United States writes: JK- Peca had his kick at the can. No thanks. Teppo has a time bomb in his chest waiting to go off. No thanks. Leafs have enough veteran "leadership". No thanks. It's time for the childrens crusade
  58. Albert Kim from seattle, writes: thank god the leafs didn't make it. maybe this toronto-centric "national" paper will talk about someone else for a change...

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