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Sending your nine-year-old on the subway alone: child abuse?

REBECCA DUBE

From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 9:58 AM EDT 08/04/08

Is sending a nine-year-old on the subway alone child abuse? ...Read the full article

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  1. Gimme Danger from Canada writes: I took the subway by myself in Toronto when I was about the same age and loved it. In fact, I think it made me a more independent kid.

    And this isn't back in the day, either, this would be the late '80s.
  2. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: If we were talking Toronto subway, you are probably safer on it than in daycare or at home. I know tons of people who have had their kids take buses (imo, way more confusing than subway) or transit or just travel by themselves to get around around the same age.

    It is a bit suspect that this happened on the NYC subway. It isn't the big deal some people would make out, but there are a lot more ways for a 9 year old to get in trouble on the NYC subway to the TTC. For one, the difference between lines and routes really confused me. In Toronto, you can't really get on the wrong train because there are only 2 (3 if you count purple line).
  3. T O from Canada writes: Good for this woman, and good for her son! I think teaching a child to navigate is one of the most important skills you can instill in them, and will surely prove useful down the road.

    Parents have to make decisions and judgments all the time, and this woman clearly decided that her son had the wherewithal to make the journey on his own. Sure, bad things do unfortunately happen, but as the article points out, kidnapping by strangers is disproportionately rare - though when it happens, it's always sensationalized.

    One thing I question though is how many of the critics actually use public transportation - even so much as a public bus. I'm willing to be the answer is slim to none. Maybe getting on at point A, paying your fare, and getting off at point B seems to difficult for people living in Thornhill, but try using the TTC for at least a month before you say it's unreasonable to let a child try it.
  4. Mark Demeny from Vancouver, Canada writes: I agree with her thinking 100% - coddle your kids and you'll end up with an adult afraid of the world.

    I'm barely in my 30's and already I can see a massive change between what I was allowed to do and the youth of today - despite the fact that crime has been dropping steadily since then.

    I think it's the result of the media scaring the bejeezus out of parents (and people in general) about everything - Pedophiles! Bin Laden! Economy! Iraq! Iran! North Korea! lead in your toys! E. Coli! Mad Cow! Bird Flu! Cancer from your cell phone! repeat ad nauseum...

    I think the first step is getting rid of your TV... only then can you free yourself from fear, and pass that confidence on to your kids.
  5. John Paolozzi from Vancouver, Canada writes: By nine I was buying my Dad cigars and playing on railway tracks.

    I remember reading somewhere that 8 year olds in the 20's roamed up to 10 miles from home, whereas now the average kid doesn't roam more than half a km.
  6. Matthew Zadow from Bruxelles, Belgium writes: I've got to agree with the other posters, and celebrate this brave journalist for doing what most of us are afraid to do, namely, to progressively put herself out of a job, since that is the true task we need to achieve as parents.

    Humans have a tendency to wildly over-estimate the frequency of certain kinds of traumatic events. It's something that might have served us well 40,000 years ago, when uncle Ted got eaten by a tiger (we won't EVER go near that cave again) but in today's world we need to look at the actual numbers to realize how small the risks of child abduction actually are. We're just not that good at risk assessment: after all, we are more afraid of guns than swimming pools, but if you own both a pool and a gun, it is estimated that the pool is 100 times more likely to kill a child than the gun is (http://www.amazon.com/review/R1FC6EJ2VUUM27).

    I would bet that our nine-year-old is smart and confident enough to ride the Brussels metro, although we haven't had a reason to let him try on his own, and he hasn't asked to do it yet. He does take great pride in running on his own to the corner bakery or store for a loaf of bread or carton of milk when we need help, and doing it in a relatively new language, too. The only precaution we've taken is to ensure he has a copy of our address and phone numbers in his wallet if there is a problem and he needs help.

    I remember as a child walking the fifteen minutes to school myself or with other kids at a much younger age than he is now, and also remember returning home, gobbling a sandwich and disappearing from view to play with my friends until the streetlights came on. I think children need to achieve new things on their own, and the more we try to protect them from largely imaginary threats, the worse we make it for ourselves and them, the longer it will take for them to become independent adults, and the longer before we can retire and start practicing for the grandparent job.
  7. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: Matthew Zadow from Bruxelles, Belgium writes: 'I would bet that our nine-year-old is smart and confident enough to ride the Brussels metro, although we haven't had a reason to let him try on his own, and he hasn't asked to do it yet. He does take great pride in running on his own to the corner bakery or store for a loaf of bread or carton of milk when we need help, and doing it in a relatively new language, too'

    We don't even have corner stores in North America. If you live in the GTA (or just about any other city) you cant walk to get a loaf of bread because, in many cases, there is nothing for km around you. There is an entire generation of kids that has been raised in oceans of suburban mediocrity growing up on a steady diet of movies and news reports which would suggest the world around us is filled with urban decay, AIDS, child abducters and that public transit is a gateway drugs (drug dealers use buses -> bus users are drug dealers right?).

    I can't believe that hack journalist in there who talked about being terrified of letting her child on the TTC subway. How risk averse can you get? There has been like 5 murders on the TTC in 50 years. I can go through the list of things which are more likely to cause harm, but people would loose interest around silicosis caused by nearby building demolition.

    Suburbs destroy common sense.
  8. John Deriso from Edmonton, Canada writes: It's her kid, so let her raise him how she would like.

    I wasn't ever allowed to do anything by my parents, and so when I turned 18 and went out and got a job and a transit pass all on my own, I was completely freaked out and had no real way to cope in a reasonable way.

    Children are, after all, just very short people. Let them make their own mistakes. It's the only way to learn anything. And if you want your kids to be really, really smart you have to open doors to let them make a lot of mistakes and be there for when they fall.
  9. doctor business from vancouver, Canada writes: This is a refreshing thread. As a new parent the inane 'safety' rules that everyone and their dog feels authoritative to inform you of are overwhelming.

    My wife and I have talked about this - though it is not of practical concern fro many years still.

    We think that a safe community is important. It's hard with our cities in flux to have confidance in that. As well, our misplaced 'safety' rules. For instance cars on all our public streets is a real danger and kills many children. Stranger Abductions on the other hand are mostly hype and fiction. Most abductions (not a signifigant risk that should be given much thought as it is) are not by strangers but by known people - intrafamily disputes etc.

    We prefer the idea of our child venturing out like this with a friend. There is quite a lot of security in having a companion. Even if they are both quite young. Any long individual, of any age, is at higher risk. Many of the real risks and danger are commonplace and everyday - falling for instance - but if there is no one around to go for help it could be more serious.

    I took the Vancouver bus when I was quite young to my swimming lesson. I don't remember exactly how old but it wouldn't be much older than 9 if at all. I remember not having enough bus fare because either I or the bus driver counted wrong (I was certain I counted right at the time) and the driver demanded that I pay more - which I could not for I had only the exact fare. A nice lady gave me a dime to complete the fare. That tiny incident made a huge impression on me at the time. We should not be overprotective but also these things have a much larger signifigance in the mind of a child than they would to an adult.

    It would be nice if we could teach our children how to talk to strangers so they can get what they need and not feel alone in a crowd. I would feel my kid was safer if he could do that. (I would feel safer myself if I knew how)
  10. doctor business from vancouver, Canada writes: Also: Mark Demeny you are correct in citing TV for inducing unreasonable fears. I remember Adbusters or someone would always cite this study which actually showed that 'the more television we watch, the more dangerous we think the world is.' It's not as easy to determine now that TV is transmuting into computers. I would say tabloid sensationalism might also scare us. Or also crime journalism in general - I beleive there is some serious historical inquiry into that subject in Victorian England when such media first came on the scene and how it impacted public perception. Jack the Ripper etc. We take these very obscure and ugly acts that capture the imagination (the nightmare part anyway) and then put them into public dialogue as if they are factual and signifigant (instead of esoteric) and then people make very fearful decisions about public life and trust. All the while not at all questioning real dangers like social policy leading to widespread poverty - private cars in public streets etc. The leading cause of death for children over the age of 1 is automobile. But that isn't in the news: Car Culture Must be Stopped! No, we have headlines about serial killers in Kentucky. We're up to date on the murders in Prince George or wherever. We vote to keep funding more lanes for more automobiles and bicycle routes that are too car over-run for children to ride safely by themselves?!
  11. Tommy Shanks from Canada writes: In the late eighties, my commute usually included sharing a subway car in Toronto with a couple of kids attending St Michael's Choir School. Some were as young as 9. About the only trouble they could have gotten into would have been a twisted ankle from jumping from one seat to the next. Considering that some 6 year olds can figure out video games that adults can't, I doubt a transit map would stump a 9 year old for too long (then again, some adults never learn how to read a map).
  12. Seth Montgomery from Brussels, writes: This has got to be one of the most refreshing comment threads I have read on this site in ages. Yay for civility!

    The comments above make me feel lucky I live in Brussels, where great little neighbourhoods still thrive with shops of all descriptions and markets. While I won't hesitate to let my daughter travel on the Metro alone when the time comes, crossing streets is another matter. Belgian are not all that interested in whether a pedestrian makes it home alive or not.
  13. Comments are Closed from Toronto, Canada writes: I sure couldn't figure out the NYC subway. It's a few orders of magnitude more complex than the Bloor-Danforth/Yonge University. And don't forget the express trains either. It's a bit more involved than 'take the A train'.
  14. Patrick Bowman from Toronto, Canada writes: It's great to see that every single comment on here supports the mother. I agree, we are terribly, counter-productively overprotective of our children. I started letting my daughter ride her bike to school (on the sidewalk) when she was in Grade 3, to a public school about five neighbourhood blocks away. When I asked other parents who questioned it, their concern was not 'she might be hit by a car', but rather 'she might be kidnapped' - nearly a million times less likely.

    As Bruce Schneier, the security expert, puts it: if it's in the news, it's not something we need to worry about. It's the things that are so common that the paper no longer reports them, like car accidents, that we need to watch for.
  15. Gerry Dunnhaupt from Toronto, Canada writes: I find that some middleclass parents try too long to keep their children back, and prevent their learning about the everyday business of life. The average teenager may know about sex, cars, and cell phones, but little else. If their parents die early, some youngsters are woefully unprepared to shoulder even the simplest responsibilities.
  16. Jeff S from Canada writes: Americans in general are governed by fear. I know many americans and haved lived in the USA for 2 years. Their media, both print and tv, constantly parade articles and shows about killings, drive-bys, child snatchings, etc, etc, so much that some people are afraid to let their kids out on the street to play.

    This lady did something absolutely normal but americans and canadians to a lesser extent coddle our children like their 'mentally disabled' or something.
  17. pirate captain from toronto, Canada writes: I took the subway alone when I was 8. Mind you that was in 1981. I also went to Europe alone when I was 16- Without even a credit card for emergencies! just the cash I had in my pocket. I opened a bank account in France and they gave me the American exchange rate for my Canadian currency. Those were the days...

    I don't know if I'd let a child do either today. I think we are overprotective, but how can we not be with all the media reports about the creeps out there, and the stories we hear? I guess if you really thought about it, it's no different than way back in 1981- we just hear more about what's out there.
    The internet- now there's a scary place to let your children play.
  18. Mitch Sprague from Ottawa, Canada writes: Excellent story. Kids should be comfortable using transit and what better way is there to build confidence?
  19. S N from Canada writes: This is a good story. My dad and his brothers always talk about how they were taking the streetcar and stuff by themselves to go help out in my grandparents store when they were 9 or 10 years old. And the store was in a rough area.

    I also agree that you can't just base the decision on age. I believe the one 'expert' interviewed said that she felt 9 was too young, but 11 was more acceptable, since those extra two years can make a big difference. That's quite a generalization. I've known 9 years old who are smarter and more sensible than some 13 years olds. It's a case by case basis.

    Kids need to experience the world around them. And like learning a new language, it's better to do it when they're younger.
  20. SusieQ 321 from NoWhereVille, Canada writes: I think it depends on the child... I know 9-10 year olds no problem I would let them ride alone, other children seem like a much younger version of what they should be. Take a child who is reasonably mature for their age and let them go.
    I am all for it I was riding public transit to swimming and music lessons younger than that with no issues. I look back at what I did vs what my nieces and nephews are and are not allowed to do and adding in a dose of common sense for the child and the parents let them have some more freedom.
  21. Ed Op from Canada writes: This is amazing! Every single comment is positive. I agree it's important that kids need to learn to take care of themselves and be able to function in their environment. Back when I was growing up in Toronto in the 70s, I was walking myself to school and to the babysitter by the age of 4 or 5 (a few blocks either way). I took the TTC on my own by the age of 9 or 10. I went home for lunch on my own, let myself in, walked the dog and got back to school on time by the age of 8 or 9. Though it was a less fearful time I clearly remember the 10 year old Yonge St. shoeshine boy being abducted and killed right around that time. Fortunately my parents realized it was a one in a million misfortune.

    Now, of course, having said all that, I also realize what a hard time I'm going to have doing that when my kids are 9 or 10. Hope I can loosen the apron strings enough to let them learn to negotiate their environment.
  22. Uncle Elmer from Canada writes: I took the subway and the bus all the time when I was a kid. Maybe not at 9 years old, but definitely by the time I was 11-12 and in junior high school. My parents only had one car and it was never available to drive me places, so my friends and I either walked or took transit. Like an earlier poster said, that was in the late 80's. Most kids in my neighbourhood today aren't even allowed to walk to school six blocks away. We have become to totally freaked out generation.
  23. Joe Public from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm not trying to question the motives behind Ann Douglas' opinions, which I'm sure are eloquently reflected in her book, but I can't help but think that there is a much greater market demand for parenting books that err on the side of caution.

    That is, parents of today are more comfortable reading a book telling them '9 years old is too young to ride the subway' because it reinforces their own opinions/fears. They'll read a book that says it's OK to put their kid on the subway (for fun), but they won't do it.
  24. Dennis Rice from St. John's, Canada writes: I'm surprised with how okay with this everybody is.

    While I think it may have been a good idea to see how the kid fared, I think it's extraordinarily callous that she 'trusted' him not to get lost, to ask for help, etc. She takes pride in not following him to ensure he was okay, but I think it's horrible parenting.
  25. Phil M from Toronto, Canada writes: That's about the age I was when I started riding the subway alone. Anecdotally speaking, I think it did me a world of good and really helped me grow up independent. I did get lost once that first week (I took the same bus I arrived on, instead of crossing the street) but a payphone and a TTC employee helped send me on track. Challenges, adversity, loss, the unknown...these are all good things to expose a kid to early. Otherwise you'll end up with someone who's crippled by anxiety whenever s/he is confronted by something new.
  26. Unabashed Opinion from Toronto, Canada writes: One important issue for parents is how to provide increasing levels of challenges so that they can develop good contingency thinking skills - in other words, what to do when things go wrong. Part of a parent's job is to teach their child how to navigate their environment, and that includes getting around their city or town. Somehow, I don't think that this exercise by the mother in New York was a 'Surprise! Now find your way home' out of the blue sort of thing. In the mother's judgement, her child was ready - obviously it was not his first exposure to the MTA.

    What is surprising to me are the people who would decry this action by the mother, more or less indicating their lack of understanding of how confident, well-functioning adults are grown out of confident, well-functioning and well-taught children.
  27. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: “If something upsetting happens, your child is a walking target,&8221; says Ann Douglas, author of The Mother of All Parenting Books and a mother of four. &8220;I would not let my child go across Toronto on a subway. &8230; You really need, as an adult, to be there with a young child, because they just don't know what to do.&8221;

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Please, the TTC is a cake walk compared to the maze of subway lines. Also the Lexington line in it in itself is quite complex. Its an express lines, like most in NYC, but unlike the one leverl four track system it is mostly a two level system. This 9 year old had to not just go down into the subway level, but also make it down to the correct level. I can send a toddler into the TTC and he/she can make me it home just right. Heck, every train that leaves Kipling is going to take you to the same boring stops time and time again. Its not like theres different routes, example taking the 2 vs taking the 3. Its all the same! This Ann Douglas should stick to her SUV and leave the TTC to us...I'm sure we can manage
  28. Lupa Nare from Toronto, Canada writes: Parents should teach their children how to be cautious (in other words, teach them street smarts) but they should never portray the world as a scary, foul place and fill children with fear.

    I find it disheartening that I'm seeing fewer and fewer children walking to school.

    Good for this NY mom!
  29. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: Will, nice to see we agree yet again. Now if you werent such a Miller lacky I would enjoy our conversation so much more.
  30. Ken K from Ottawa, Canada writes: I'm with the rest of the posters on here. I too was a veteran TTC-er by age 9.

    Now that I have a child of my own (5 months old) it will be interesting seeing how well I can 'walk the talk' and raise her the same way I was raised.
  31. Gary Dale from Toronto, ON, Canada writes: Finally some common sense. Statistics show that the real danger to children comes from people they know. Yes, kids can screw up and get lost, but then that's also a learning experience. And a random stranger on the street is almost certainly going to be someone safe to ask for help from.

    Today's parents walk or drive their kids to school, give them lunch money that usually gets spent on junk food, and generally do all in their power to not appear to be 'bad parents'. When I was growing up, we walked to school by ourselves and ate the nutritious lunches our mothers made for us. We explored our neighbourhoods and beyond.

    Yes, there are real dangers out there, but the worse problem is what we do to our kids ourselves.
  32. Debra McRae from Canada writes: Is seems to me that this child was willing and ready. He is probably very aware of his surroundings. My children certainly were not ready at that age, although they really didn't have a need to use the TTC. They started using public transit last year (ages 12 and 13) and only when they had the company of each other or friends from school.
    Bottom line is - every child is different - and every circumstance is different.
    I'm wondering though, does the TTC or the New York Transit Commission have a policy on the minimum age requirement to ride alone? At what point would a bus driver or subway token worker stop a child from entering the bus / subway alone?
  33. Chuck LeDuc from Vancouver, Canada writes: The phrase 'trial runs with parents following at a distance' is the craziest thing I've read in a long, long time. I'm looking forward to this generation of children punishing their neurotic parents with the worst case of teenage rebellion ever seen. As the article illustrates, this hyperprotectiveness isn't about the childrens' safety at all: it is about how the parents look. And they look like idiots.
  34. Darren X3 from Toronto, Canada writes: I can't speak for the complexity of the NYC subway (it's more complex than the TTC but not THAT bad if you're a bright kid who's been riding it with mom for years), nor safety (didn't seem that bad to me), but I can say that I think riding on the TTC would be pretty safe for a 9 year old.... the biggest danger is that some overzealous latte drinker would drag the child by his ear to a TTC booth in spite of the child's repeated protests that 'I'm fine, I'm not lost, I don't need your help, thank you'. As for getting 'roughed up', in the highly unlikely event that this happened (I've never seen anything like this and I've ridden the TTC daily for years), I'm sure other passengers would step in.
  35. Mr. Coffee from Victoria, Canada writes: No wonder some kids stay with their parents until they're 48!! Why not just send them to school in a biohazard suit covered in hand sanitizer. It's getting ridiculous these days, even beyond basic paranoia.
  36. sheila valentine from Canada writes: It depends on the maturity of the child and the amount of independance given with parental monitor over the childs developmental lifetime.Obvious this parent took the time to do hands on training and evaluation so this child could handle this task.Kudos for that .If something is meant to be it will, if the child is mature enough to do this they are mature enough to ask assistance and probably coached in the ways of the world as to what to avoid on these travels by the same parent or parents. Self dependance is not the same as cell phone dependance since this kid could also have Tia Chi or self defence and take on an adult if necessary.Cell phone dependance for a kid takes too much for granted and you can't wrap kids in a bubble they must be able to break the cord.Teach then trust a this lady is right.
  37. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: If I recall myself at that age, when I took a trip with my family to places like London, it was my responsibility to decide which tube lines to get on to go to the various attractions we were going to, and help us navigate safely. Most kids that age are ready to venture on their own, as long as clear expectations and boundaries are set and understood by the child, and they know the basic safety rules.
  38. Christopher Kiely from Canada writes: 'Ms. Douglas says nine-year-olds may be ready to start walking to school alone, but only after numerous conversations and trial runs with parents following at a distance.'

    Does this lady even realise she looses all credibility with this statement? They're 9 years old and they MAYBE ready to walk to school alone??? And even then you're still following along hiding in the bushes??? How many people were still holding their mom or dad's hand walking to school in grade 3? Sad...
  39. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: She didn't give the boy her cell phone for the trip because she didn't want to lose it. She trusts that her little boy will find his way home on the subway. She trusts that strangers will help him if he gets lost, but she's not confident enough in his maturity to trust him with her cell phone. After all, that's an important piece of technology. It would be a shame if IT got lost.
  40. James Harrison from Toronto, Canada writes: I worked at a Toronto-based university for six years. I saw the damage that mollycoddling does to children and the arrested development that results when they become adults.

    Good for this parent for teaching her kid that it is a big world and you've got to manage to live in it.
  41. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: She didn't give the boy her cell phone for the trip because she didn't want to lose it. She trusts that her little boy will find his way home on the subway. She trusts that strangers will help him if he gets lost, but she's not confident enough in his maturity to trust him with her cell phone. After all, that's an important piece of technology. It would be a shame if IT got lost.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Chris, the kid was underground. Last I was in NYC, that meant you counts get cellphone reception. Plus she gave him numerous quarters. There are public phone booths all over the subway and all over NYC. What? Didn't you ever watch Superman?
  42. Rick C from Canada writes: Glad to see at least some parents don't want their kids to grow up to be helpless.
  43. D M from Canada writes: 'By the time I was nine my dad had bought me my first prostitute.'

    Yeah, but did you have any problems 'finding your way' ?

    But seriously, as one mother-poster put it, it depends on the child. One poster said they found it callous that the mother in the article 'trusted' their child to ask for help, etc. Maybe she trusted him, because being his mother, she KNEW him well enough that she knew he would ask. It's pretty hard for us to sit back and say that it was too tough for that child. We don't know him - his mother does! Doesn't matter how many books about children we sell, either - it doesn't make as an expert on THAT child!
  44. anonymous anonymous from Hamilton, Canada writes: When I was nine years old in 1966, my grandmother in Croatia was very sick and my parents wanted me to see her in case she did not recover. They couldn't afford to travel with me at the time. They put me on an Air Canada flight that transferred planes in Paris for the flight to Zagreb, Croatia. I remember there being other children travelling by themselves, the flight attendants being very nice and having a great time.
  45. Chrissy Simon from Canada writes: Dar, My point was that she didn't give him her cell phone because she was worried the phone would get lost. I would think that a child who's responsible enough to navigate the NYC subway system alone should also be responsible enough to hang on to a cell phone for the duration of the trip. What if he'd lost his quarters or subway fare? That didn't seem to concern her.
  46. Bub Slub from Calgary, Canada writes: Nine does seem a too young but who can say without being there. Sound like the parent has a level head and if she decides it can be done with reasonable risk, then let her go.

    Our society is so security paranoid that there are many who would never agree with this so I don't care. This is evidenced by the so called hot button of crime that Steve's followers like to push. The streets are not unsafe and no amount of money which they want to spend will ever change the regular whining that it is dangerous to live in our cities. Like economics 101 there needs to be education on the concept of risk management 101.
  47. Roy Anderson from Canada writes: This matter is like so many others that are raised today. There is NO STOCK ANSWER!

    The answer, in this matter, depends upon the maturity (not age) of the child, its training and its mental acceptance of that old - often sadly lacking - thing called common sense.

    Some children, of very tender years, have it; while many adults never achieve sufficient to make any decision, they make, safe!

    The matter is further hampered by the fact that SOME parents have no idea of their child's true ability. Blind adoration and wishful thinking occupy too many parents' minds in regard to their children.

    SO - too many variables to make a 'yes' or no' response - as requested - I fear.
  48. Just Sayin' from Canada writes: Will Hoaccio:

    I'm not sure what GTA you live in but there are 4 corner stores, 3 fruit and veg stands and a number of other merchant, restaurants and services within a ten minute walk of my apartment.

    In fact, in all of the cities I have lived in (Chicago, Toronto, Washington DC, Philadelphia, Halifax, Montreal) these sorts of things were easily available by foot.

    Yes, I would agree that in suburban areas of the GTA, and many other cities, that these amenities are not as readily available but that's what you sacrifice for the 'security' of the suburbs. Unfortunately, by describing the urban area as the GTA, you are glossing over the fact that there are sharp structural and planning differences between the urban and suburban areas of that classification.
  49. J Smart from Canada writes: When my daughter was around 9 she asked if she could walk by herself to the school bus stop, a 5 minute walk with one set of lights. Well, I was shocked! Of course you can't walk to the bus stop, I said. It is much too dangerous - kidnapping, crazy drivers, tripping on uneven pavement - the list went on. OK, it was me that wasn't ready to make that trip. I let her go and she has been going ever since. She is now 15 and takes the bus around town with or without her friends. It is tough to make that first step, but it is worth it!

    After having said that I do think that the supervision we impose on our kids today is not totally misplaced. I believe that the world was more dangerous when I was a kid. Listen, all those pediphiles in the news today were doing their dirty work 30, 40 years ago - who, today would let their child spend a weekend at a grown man's cottage...come on! We don't put up with that kind of business any more. Yes, it was great to be able to roam around the neighbourhood when we were kids without much supervision - the bad guys knew that and used it to their advantage. Common sense is what we need and that is the best for our kids.
  50. Deas, She Wrote from New York, United States writes: Not sure if I personally would let a 9 yr old try this, but she knows her child best.

    Bloomie's to 34th St is about 3 stops, on a straight line, right thru the main business district. Very high-visibility and safe. And the 34th St bus is also safe, though crossing the intersection can be tricky.
  51. B Reynolds from Kingston, Canada writes: I walked home alone from school in Toronto, from Keele and Bloor to Keele and Annette, starting at age 4. I was taking the TTC on my own by age 9. I was approached by some creepy men when I was older (around 13), and when I was 5 I walked up Keele with a sprained ankle, but I survived.

    However, I'll wait to send my kids to school on their own until they're at least in Grade 3. I can see the school from my house, and my children are pretty smart, but we live in a city with seven prisons and several registered sex offenders. I don't trust adult strangers or even other kids with my children's well being.
  52. Josephine B. from Canada writes: By the time I was 13 I was travelling across the Atlantic by myself, including transfers and plane changes, and not as an unaccompanied minor either.
    When I was 14 my parents dropped off my friends and I at a campground - left a car - and left us to or own devices for 2 nights.
    I really do think it depends on the child, but there certainly seems to be much mollycoddling going on!
  53. Paul Jonassen from Vancouver, Canada writes: An amazing amount of intelligent commentary on this item. At nine my friend Alan and I went on hikes along the Don River on the fringes of Scarberia with lunches provided by our mothers who encouraged our independence and self-directed outdoor recreation. At ten my mother gave me a set of instructions and bus fare and I travelled to downtown Toronto to take sculpting classes at the Royal Ontario Museum, another activity vastly healthier than computer games. I was cautioned to be careful and in her words, 'keep my wits about me,' and call if in trouble, but otherwise expected to be self-reliant. My wife and her sisters took streetcars across Vancouver at similar ages. Thanks to the hysteria of the ambulance chasing press, which would have us believe that danger lurks behind every suburban hedge, many parents today are raising their kids in a bubble. They drive them to school, hang around all their activities, and generally disallow them from being responsible for themselves. It's okay for the kids to spend hours playing violent computer games or to watch videos full of sexual innuendo, but heaven forfend that they should play on the street or use their imaginations in technology-free group activity. I congratulate the woman in New York City for not capitulating to the fear-mongers and raising her son in the older-fashioned independent way and to trust rather than distrust most other human beings. In fact last time I checked, most people are good and helpful to kids and the safest streets are the ones full of people.
  54. Mia Zen from Canada writes: Distance is often an illusion of possible dangers as much as the apparent peace of a very quiet town. I was five when I saw my first exhibitionist, a workman building next door's house. Years later, when I was a teen, a young woman was attacked on our street, and a few months later, I saw a voyeur looking at my window late at night. When my father and I opened the door, we heard him running on the streets.
    Is taking a subway alone at nine years old really more dangerous than being accompanied by an adult ? Then, when is this child going to learn how to become independant ?
  55. CHP My vote from Beamsville, Canada writes: I was at a community playground on Sunday. The 'ground' was rubber crumbs and was soft, presumably to absorb impact. I was flabbergasted to realise this. When will a child learn the consequences of actions, especially regarding rough play and what happens when you fall? A broken bone really isn't any big deal people! Maybe this is why kids bring guns to school? THey figure it's a foam world, and nothing will hurt??
  56. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    When I attended elemenatry school in the 1970's there were only 2 families at my school who drove their kids back and forth to school every day - they were considered weird. Today I suspect it's the reverse. Meanwhile the rest of us kids rode our bikes to school without helmets or locks.
  57. Jennifer Gruden from Toronto, writes: I agree that it depends on the child. Children are not just little adults; they do have very different perceptions and levels of judgment. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be allowed independence, but that parents have to lead them towards it rather than just cutting them loose.

    I'd look at the child's skills - does he or she know how to use a pay phone, and have change for it? Has he or she taken public transit often? Does he or she know how to deal with uncomfortable situations and how to select someone to help? (Tip: not a uniformed person, but a mother with children - see Gavin DeBecker's Protecting the Gift for more.)

    If the child has all those capabilities then I say go for it! I took a bus and a streetcar home from school starting in grade 2, and then the subway places starting around grade 4 or 5. As a teenager I went all over the city which was a great boon in terms of connecting to cultural and arts events, and no worries about drunk driving after parties.

    I think as long as this mum's son had the skills, good for her.
  58. T Rogers from Vancouver, Canada writes: At nine, I was stealing cars and mugging 8-year olds. Now, those were the days, my friend!
  59. Eriq49 Indignis from Toronto, Canada writes: At Izzy's age I was riding the transcontinental train overnight from Northern Ontario to Montreal. AND I could find my way to the dining car by myself. But the New York Subway - THAT'S scared me when I was a grown-up! Hooray for Izzy and his Mom!
  60. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: I think she didn't give him a cell point to 'make a point' per se. There is no reason to not give the kid some extra security; even adults carry cell phones around incase they get into trouble.

    Good for the mom though, too many paranoid parents out there these days.
  61. Farenheit 451 from Vancouver, Canada writes: Good for her!

    The contrast being one of the children in my daughter's class who had hysterics in the airport before the band trip to Scotland because she didn't want to leave home - and they were 16 at the time.

    I think it would help if when they run some of the 'scarey' stories they put some comparative statistics in with them - I live on my own, and when I found out that I was more likely to be hit by lightening than I was to be murdered I stopped worrying about break ins. I mean if you aren't worried about being hit by lightening........
  62. lindapc foothills rocky mountains from Canada writes: Straight talking, with our children allows them to be prepared for independent travel on subways, buses and LRT(Light Rail Transit/Edmn.Ab).
    Kudos to this woman for bringing the subject to the public through open forum.
    Each child 'needs' to work towards independent thinking as an individual out in the world, armed with the tools to make rational decisions for themselves that do not put them into harms way.
    The majority of child abductions are carried out by familiar faces, neighbors and or family members.
    The sexual deviants that prey on children are everywhere, even in our schools with open door policies. They are, I believe more prevalent in families that abide by the rule of secrecy and not discussing openly with the child about the possible reality that anyone could be a potential abuser of some kind.
    There are a number of tools that parents can use to make their school age children aware of the possibility that strangers give signals indicating not to approach. There are a couple of excellent videos for preparing street smart kids in our face paced multicultural society.
    The majority of transit riders are on their way to or from work or school and are willing to give information to a minor concerning whom to ask for directions if they are not able to provide the necessary information themselves.
    My eldest daughter, now in her thirties, took the transit starting at age 7. It was only a seven block walk from our home to the school, I felt it was much safer to ride the bus directly to school where she only had to walk half a block; she also traveled within her peer group.
    As a single parent, it was a difficult decision to allow her to make the trip on her own, she was an extremely independent child and I had a job to get to on time.
    There are many solutions to problems; we should not enable our children to become victims of mollycoddling and praise them for their willingness to strike out on their own when they are ready to do so.
  63. Maureen Boliszczuk from Canada writes: I applaud this mother. We are raising 'hot house' children today with being so ridiculously over protective. Our world today is no more dangerous but only in the minds of too many. Izzy proved he could be independent and responsible and most children at that age certainly can be given the chance. We are not helping our children by not allowing them to grow indpendent. Parents walking their older children to school or driving them when they are capable of walking, how and what is this helping? Is it for the parents peace of mind? Those kids aren't going to be able to do for themselves later and then the parents will wonder why they won't move out and be independent.
  64. N. American from New York, United States writes: The sad commentary in all this is that anyone would think this dangerous in the first place. It seems the big concern is that the boy may have been accosted by a predator rather than just getting lost or distracted, or both.

    I'm all for arming our children against the 2 or 3 child molesters they may meet during their childhood... but to allow the 'drummed up' fear of this rule and ruin a child's progress towards independence is just... sad.

    I have a 7 month old boy... I guess I reserve to the right to have my tune be changed in 8.5 years.
  65. Michael Tripper from East Brittle, Mounds and Belly and oh my, Canada writes: wow so now independence is abuse - only a fool, a total fool thinks that.

    I took transit parent free and with my 2-year younger sister in tow or alone when I was kid. It was a dime to take transit - sigh - and a quarter for adults.

    The folks who say this is a bad thing should be sterilized to prevent stupidity from spreading, at the very least put into the care of a normal functioning adult.

    Being over protective is a great danger to all and seems to be a trait that affects females more than males - while men need to be aware of our aggressive tendencies, women need to be aware of this particularly nasty trait which would have us all living in velvet prisons for our own protection.
  66. Amanda Street-Bishop from Toronto, Canada writes: When my youngest son was in grade five and no longer wished to go to daycare, he began taking the streetcar and subway home from school everyday. He loved the independence and freedom this gave him. It also enabled him to take art classes and guitar lessons directly after school because he was able to make his on way on the TTC to these lessons. This has freed up valuable evening time for homework and more importantly family time. We have never had as much quality family time as we have had in the last year. Not all parents will feel comfortable with this and not all children are mature enough at 10 to be able to cope with instances such as getting on the wrong streetcar or being bothered by an intoxicated person on the subway. My 10 year old was and we are truly benefiting as a family from this fact.
  67. N. American from New York, United States writes: ...oh and; BTW... The New York City subway system is pretty darned easy if A) you know how to read a basic map and follow signs; and B) if you're not an idiot.
  68. Michael Tripper from Canada writes: I guess actually it says more about who runs the media than anything else because most of us agree this is a non-issue and a normal part of life.
  69. Jeff D from Toronto, Canada writes: No. Confining your child in your house, car, and school just because you're paranoid might be an abuse though.
  70. Gabriel Hall from Calgary, Canada writes: Kids are maturing younger and younger, mainly due to the vast amount of information they're being fed by the media, their peers, at school, and now the internet. Setting moral and judgemental standards need to start younger than it did in my generation to help kids make sense of this information.

    9 years old isn't that young anymore, you'd be suprised how many things a 9 year old can do these days if you empower them to do so.
  71. Nature Lover from Canada writes: The story probably wouldn't have the cachet that is has, if it was NOT IN NEW YORK, GASP! Kids do this all the time in all parts of the world, but if it is in NEW YORK, well it's a big story. The rest of us are going: So?
  72. xtrump 42 from Middle Earth, Canada writes: To me it all depends on the kid. When my daughter K was 10 years old she was forever bugging her mother (we were separated at the time) to take the street car home from school alone. So on one visit to Toronto I picked my daughter up from school and we took off together. When we got to our transfer point K missed it, then when we got to our stop she missed it again. So I admonished her and told her Mom she wasn't ready to travel across town on her own. The next year she passed a similar test and from then on was free to spread her wings and fly.
  73. John Zimmerman from Victoria, BC, Canada writes: Well, when I was a child my father and I took the #14 bus / young line subway / Bloor line subway / 201 trolly car to school and back every day for my grade 2 year. By grade 3 we were riding down together but I was going home alone and by grade 4 I went both ways alone. I never felt threatened or unsafe and am still grateful to my parents for instilling in my the sense of confidence that I can navigate my way home in all situations. With cameras and people everywhere I do not feel this is an unsafe thing to do. It is, however, very important that the child be shown how to read a map and make his or her own determination of where he or she is and where it is they need to go. Many nights in my grade 2 year my father patiently rode the wrong train with me as I lead us astray and had to guide us back on track.
  74. More or Less from Canada writes: In our society there's a disconnect between perceived danger and the reality. In other countries, kids his age are raising siblings alone, working in factories, or have responsibilities of a much older person--not saying this is right, just that it demonstrates kids are capable of more than they might be given credit if you don't give them a chance.

    Some kids are raised to believe someone will pick up after them, deliver snacks to them sitting in front of the tv, or that money magically drops out of an ATM without absorbing the reality that hard work goes into putting it there in the first place.

    If this mom kept the kid locked in the house for nine years and then one day dropped him off downtown to find his way home, that would be unacceptable. I expect, though, that he had been on the subway with mom before and knew the drill--this was just a day on his own. Good for his mom, and good for the kid to get home okay.
  75. Was Canadian from New York, United States writes: I'm going to be in the minority here. I have a problem with what this mother did.

    I would have LESS of a problem if she hadn't done it on a Sunday. As reported in the NY Times a few days ago, the weekend trains are a mess. This past weekend, 12 of the system's 24 lines didn't make their normal runs, some skip stations, stop short and switch to shuttle buses and others don't operate at all. Judging by the number of bewildered adult users, figuring out your trip is not a straightforward proposition.

    Unless she's knew the train was running normally (and it's not clear from the Globe and Mail article OR the original article in NY Sun that she knew that was the case), sending her kid on the system was very irresponsible.

    For example, on Sunday, instead of taking my usual C train (which wasn't running at all) or my back-up #1 train, I had to take a packed (sardine-like) 5 train that was running on the 2 track and switched to a 2 that was running on the local (1) track instead of express (2) track.

    There's a real tendency (esp. that I've seen living in NY) to treat children as adults - and it's not always a good thing.
  76. James Currie from Toronto, Canada writes: In the early '70s I can remember walking about 2 km to Kindergarten with a friend. Looking back on it, that might have been a little too much independence at the age of 5 but it was a good safe neighbourhood and I didn't feel nervous or scared.

    When I was 8, I took the Subway alone to the Museum for Saturday morning classes, and it was fine. My mom and I had taken the Subway many times, and she made sure I knew what to do on the subway and how to get around. And I wasn't the only kid using it, either!

    I think that in this generation for a variety of reasons we have become much more protective of kids, and less willing to let them face the world on their own. It's not a good thing. I think it builds character to do something on your own, and builds respect for the world at large. Stories of parents hounding University professors about a poor grade or even parents going to job interviews with their adult children are making for a generation of people who wait for someone else to help them out.
  77. john foker from minneapolis, United States writes: The writing certainly colors the story. It begins by implying the mom said "here's your metro card now get lost," whereas at the very end the kid says "finally." Clearly, he was ready and wanted to do it. Seems like a very good thing.

    Life has its risks and we can't completely protect our children, nor is it desirable to try too hard. i realize Minneapolis in the '40's-'50's was not Manhattan today, but walking home from school was standard by 6 and going across town by bus (transfer required) to the grandparents was routine by age 9.

    Seems right for this, and probably most, families.
  78. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: N. American from New York, United States writes: ...oh and; BTW... The New York City subway system is pretty darned easy if A) you know how to read a basic map and follow signs; and B) if you're not an idiot.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I agree with alot of that actually. I dont know if you've been to Toronto, but the one thing here that confuses ppl is the maze of walkways that leads up to the actuall subway platform. Getting to the platform is very simple and conveniant in NYC. In my previous post, I did mention that Lex is a tough line, only because of the different levels. But if this kid managed to pull it off, then kudos to him. I think we should use a 9 year level of maturity and education as a bench mark. If a system is too difficult to be used by a 9 year old, then it needs to be reworked until it reaches that level.
  79. Raiman Dilag from Markham, Canada writes: Firstly, we need to ensure we set the levels of independence based on the child's personality. Some are more willing to do things on their own, others need the training wheels on a bit longer. Find out when they are ready to grow, not when we as parents are ready to release them. As a young child playing in a park, my parents taught me about geographical boundaries, understanding risks, knowing what to look for, and knowing what to do in case of an emergency. We started by knowing that we could play from this sidewalk to that sidewalk, but not beyond. By the age of 7, I was walking around West Edmonton Mall with my older brother. By the age of 8, I was doing it on my own. Everyone synchronize your watches, and be back at this place, by this time. If you're lost, use the map, or ask a mall employee. If you encounter any situation that you're not comfortable with, tell a mall employee. Here's an emergency quarter in your shoe in case you need to call. Did it make us vulnerable, or did it help us spread our wings. By 9, I was doing my own laundry, 19 representing Canada in the US, by 24 living in France, and have since been to 6 of 7 continents, while obtaining a self-financed university degree and living free of debt. I know that many have certainly done better than I have and my feeling is that most of them have probably been put in environments where they have had to test and challenge themselves. We don't get diamonds by carrying coal in bubble wrap. They are the result of dealing with the sustained heat and pressures of a lifetime.
  80. Ian St. John from Canada writes: "her now-10-year-old son Izzy – who pronounced his journey “really easy”

    I think that says anything that needs to be said. I walked home from school in my town. Nobody thought my parents had to be there 24/7 as it was only ten blocks to the public school. Given New Yorks transit the trip was about equivalent, I'd think.

    {sarcasm}Or maybe it is about the fact that it was in New York where muggers are stacked up in rows and nobody can ride the subway without at least a Ruger 9mm?{/sarcasm}
  81. Darren In TO from Toronto, Canada writes: James Currie reminded me of that episode of Everyone loves Raymond, where Marie interfered with Robert's interview with the FBI.
  82. J J from Kelowna, Canada writes: Had the opportunity to visit Kyoto, Japan a couple years back. Rode the subway every morning for a week, for about 6 km. Full of kids, I would guess 8 and up, dressed in school uniforms, no parents, on their way to school.