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Gen Y wants to work it out

REBECCA DUBE

From Monday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 8:55 AM EST 02/06/08

Is the millennial generation a bunch of job-hoppers seeking instant gratification? Not at all, new research says ...Read the full article

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  1. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: The media has labeled every new generation entering the workforce lazy and self-absorbed. I think the hippie group from the sixties are the crappiest, most lazy, workers.
  2. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Being a baby boomer I was at first both envious and angry at the Gen Xers and Y's and whatever age group the "milleniumials" represent as spoiled and generally only for themselves. But now I look at them differently and I pity them.
    With their smaller numbers, generation-wise, they'll have to make the mega salaries to be able to handle the debt load that they will inherit as the boomers die off.
    These generational groups should be applauding any government committed to pay off Canada's national debt today, as the Tories have done, because those bills have to be paid off sooner (better) than later (worse) and the lower the debt is when the Gen.Y'ers move into middle age, the better it will be for them in their attempt to save enough for retirement or have a government in better financial straits to provide them with the programs they've grown up with and take for granted.
    Everything is relative. I make more money than my parents did, but I pay higher and more taxes than did their generation, and by my own estimate, they were better off in relation to the value their tax dollars got versus what value my tax dollars get today.
  3. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: Gen Ys, especially those with a degree, feel like they are owed something. They think they can get their certification and start at a 40K job. Anything lower is an insult.

    They may quickly see the reality of the workplace and adapt and take what they can get and work their way up. But, that is still the initial expectation. It goes to show how ignorant most grads are, thinking that grades equate to knowledge and that ehy could step in and run a company.

    I am 27 with a degree and I've observed this first hand. Also, my girlfriend worked at an HR firm and used to tell me the delusional expectations of new grads.
  4. J Brocha from Toronto, Canada writes: I am a Gen Y, just entering the workforce after completing my master's degree. I have been upset reading in G&M that I am lazy and self-entitled, when it is far from the case.
    It is true though, that "we" feel some resentment towards the boomers and Gen X, who hold all the property ransom from us and won't sell a home for under $1,000,000 because they want to cash out.
    Oh well, I'll just wait till I'm 40.
  5. Paul Collins from Toronto, Canada writes: Alberto Bayo and Gogh Forit are both from another planet. I find the baby boom generation the most selfish generation that our age has every experienced. In the 60's the boomers started out with noble principles but have since degerated. The boomers now monopolize the land, the resources, the money, and have the nerve to label the next generation as lazy job hoppers. Just look at the land prices out there across the country. You would think Canada has a population of half a billion but it does not. The US has a higher population, yet lower land prices. Explain that people. I would not cry not one tear to hear how boomers are forced to eat dog food to survive.
  6. Timber Wolf from Richmond, BC, Canada writes: While there are many notable exceptions, I generally find that Generation Y kids have a terrible work ethic. Then again, when you consider that their parents were baby boomers, what can you expect?

    What really bothers me about 20 somethings today is that they were NEVER taught failure by their parents. It is a foreign concept to them, Nope, these kids were congratulated for deficating by their boomer parents, so consequently they have a plethora of unjustified self-esteem.

    Every younger generation gets slagged by the one the preceeds it, but in the case of Generation Y, it is much deserved. Again, the sense of entitlement and sloven work ethic emanates from their boomer parents, who have had a far too easy ride in life.
  7. Richard Hawk from Canada writes: As a manager I have watched numerous Gen Y employees start at our firm, and I have to say that overall I've been very happy with their work ethic and ability to get the job done. Not sure if it's because my field requires such a high level of education and work ethic just to get here, but from my observations this article is accurate.

    Actually I see every day that the older employees, especially 50 , put in the least effort and just plain care the least. I think every generation thinks they had it harder then the previous and thinks the next generation is spoiled or whatever. I heard it about Gen X, now about Gen Y.
  8. Kim Philby from Ottawa, Canada writes: Labeling a whole generation might make it easy for wannabe writers to crank out those cheesy pop culture books, but it ignores the obvious: we are individuals. I prefer to see people as individuals, rather than lump them together as having the same characteristics.
  9. steve J from Canada writes: If anything, the boomer generation is the one with the entitlement problem. But really, I think that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

    Older generations will always think that they had to work harder to get where they're at, they had to "pay their dues" more than others.. and that younger generations don't "appreciate how much easier it is nowadays".. blah blah blah.

    In 25 years the "Gen Yers" will be in saying the same things about the "Gen Zers" or whatever they will be called. It's called the generation gap, and it's never going away.. and will only become more promintent as average life expectancy ocntinues to increase and 3 generational families are the norm.
  10. CD W from Canada writes: In my work, your generation is irrelevant. This is the beauty of having a high level of qualification to work in a particular field. I like new staff, and I always try to pass on a few tips on the work, and I get to see the world through their eyes for the first time. A good way to stay enthusiastic, even with 11 years to retirement!
  11. Lung Hacker from Canada writes: Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: Gen Ys, especially those with a degree, feel like they are owed something. They think they can get their certification and start at a 40K job. Anything lower is an insult.

    I am 27 with a degree and I've observed this first hand. Also, my girlfriend worked at an HR firm and used to tell me the delusional expectations of new grads.
    ____________________________________________________

    I would be interested to see the study you're citing that contradicts the one in the article.

    I would also assume that your girlfriend is considerably older than you, since she must have interviewed recent grads from previous generations in order to make a comparison.
  12. Paul S from Canada writes: Kim has it spot on - there is so much pop-culture crap in the press it is vomit inducing.

    For those who complain about the 'over-educated' young people with more than 2 degrees, like myself, and who complain that our salary expectations are too high and that we need to learn something about the work world: give it up! For there is more to the planet than cheap over-taxed Canada. Globalization works both ways. We can command 50k entry level salaries, pay practically no tax or rent and get months of paid vacation time working abroad waiting until all the baby boomers who ramped up the debt, flooded the country with immigrants (thus lowering wages and raising rents), and destroyed the environment die off and leave us without their smug 'the 60's changed the world' crap (that's just marketing ploys for time-life cd collections).
  13. bob london from Canada writes: Boomers are killing the country, on freedom 95 and have not worked for years. Their lifestyle ahve made a bunch of fat and lazy union workers who are injured when they lift a pencil or sandwich. They call in sick too often and download problems and work to X and Y. The union protects the fat pensions, pay, benefits and when downsizing occurs X and Y goes. The only benefit for Y is if your parent works in a government union (the best paid and laziest Canadians) you have it made. If your dad is a unionized TO garbage collecter and their is a job opening, apply and put your PHD to good use.

    As Prof Foote stated in a 2002 CBC interview, "all of Canada's problems will be solved when the boomers are gone"
  14. Jake Richardson from Kingston, Canada writes: I for one love the job hopping me-first attitude. Many companies have little to no loyalty to their employees. The larger the company, the worse this attitude is. So, why should employees have loyalty to the company? Get what's best for yourself. It what's the company does every day.
  15. SN Dream from Canada writes: Gen Ys, especially those with a degree, feel like they are owed something. They think they can get their certification and start at a 40K job. Anything lower is an insult.
    --------------------------
    Really, could you explain to me why Bloomer think high school graduate/drop out should earn 55K just because they worked in a dead end job for several years???

    Unions like the TTC workers and UAW are holding the society hostage and demanding ridiculously wages saying they deserve it. When we are trying to get what we are truly worth, we get the huge hammer from the boomer.

    Also, before the boomer complaining how gen X and Y are spoiled and ruining the world, could they at least clean up some of their own mess like pay up their own DEBT. Stop blaming us for your under-funded pension account, it's your fault for not saving enough.
  16. Alpha Sigma from Canada writes: Paul Collins from Toronto, Canada writes: Alberto Bayo and Gogh Forit are both from another planet. I find the baby boom generation the most selfish generation that our age has every experienced. In the 60's the boomers started out with noble principles but have since degerated. The boomers now monopolize the land, the resources, the money, and have the nerve to label the next generation as lazy job hoppers. Just look at the land prices out there across the country. You would think Canada has a population of half a billion but it does not. The US has a higher population, yet lower land prices. Explain that people. I would not cry not one tear to hear how boomers are forced to eat dog food to survive. They boomers sit on their perches, in their fat cat executive jobs, making big money and full pensions and use their well to do financial situations to buy up real estate thereby reducing supply. And the debt the government has amassed providing social programs to this group will need to be paid for by next generations all the while these boomers sit on wealth they continue to build via gravy train jobs and tax shelter schemes. As far as I'm concerned as the boomers die off part of their net worth (if over a certain $ amount) should be put back into the system to pay off their portion of the debt. Can anyone blame the Gen-Yers or Gen-Xers for being impatient while waiting for promotions? Afterall these people are the ones doing all the technical work for their boomer overlords with little light at the end of the tunnel because the boomers won't leave the trough. Hey - would you leave highly lucrative positions that enable you to play golf several times a week during office hours while your GenY/X grunts do all the real work?
  17. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Instead of bashing a specific generation, I would like to say that all generations suck equally. The boomers went from delusional drugged out hippies to pretentious materialistic yuppies within a decade. Generation X (which actually consists of late boomers, not the generation that followed as is so often incorrectly stated in the media) were just wannabe hippies who were too late for the party. Generation Y and whatever followed were the offspring of first-wave boomers, and have combined the lazy, delusional idealism of their parents' younger years with their current pretentious, shallow, narcissistic sense of entitlement. So forget the inter-generational sh!t fights. We all suck in our own demographically unique style.
  18. Just Sayin' from Canada writes: These generational labels are just a convenient way to manifest ageism. There are good workers and bad workers from all generations. If you're in the business of hiring its your job to be able to separate the wheat from the chafe. Ageism deserves the same consideration in our society as racism and sexism. As a 30 something I am disappointed in appropriateness of someone's criticism of generations that are not their own in an effort to prove that their generation is somehow more socially valuable and worthy.
  19. Peter S from Toronto, Canada writes: The problem with this article is that it prejudges "job-hopping" and a "me-first attitude" as flaws. For previous generations, finding a job for life may have been possilbe, or desirable. But we now live in a world where a company will post milions in profit and then lay off employees in an attempt to "boost shareholder value". So why on earth should employees not be job hopping if they can find better opportunities, instead of showing loyatly to a company that won't show them any?
  20. Leaving Sooon from Canada writes: I work with a great many different generations in skilled and unskilled labour (from 18 years old to 70 years old) and have seen lazy and hardworking people of all forms and ages. There is no difference between the generations as far as work ethic goes. Work style may be different but ethic overall is the same. There are useless people of all kinds!

    Job hopping has to happen! Job security is now all but dead for Gen Y and anyone else just entering the job market. A great many jobs now are temporary and contract work.
  21. The Economic Hitman jr. from Vancouver, Canada writes: I agree with Peter S; I haven't seen any companies doing me any favours on renumberation.

    It reminds me of the adage, "if you don't look out for you, who will?"
  22. Likes Cleavage from Canada writes: RIght on Alister.
  23. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: Lung hacker, judging by your name I would have to assume you are a proud smoker so that already show's impaired judgement. But, I'll rebut anyways

    Nowhere did I say that this entitlement is different from generation to generation and I clearly said I've observed the behaviour first hand. I cannot comment on Baby boomer entitlement and therefore didn’t.

    My point is this, there are numerous grads that have finished school without even having a job, let alone one in the field they are studying. (Of course, not all, and of course the same could be said for other generations) It&8217;s these ignorant people that think they deserve to start half way up the ladder and not at the bottom.

    SN DREAM Yes REALLY, and no I can't explain your points, why would I? I don't speak for boomers or TTC employees. I agree with you there is misplaced entitlement, just LIKE MY POINT.

    GEN Yers overestimate the "value" of there degree.
  24. H M from Canada writes: Uh, if a degree does not entitle me to make more than minimum wage, I wouldn't have bothered getting one. When the people at Tim Hortons make 35k per year (16.50 starting wage!!!!), then YES I expect 40K.

    And YES I will job-hop, because I assure you that the company isn't exactly guaranteeing me job stability for longer than 20 minutes.

    I am exactly as loyal to the company as I am paid to be. Currently, I am reasonably paid, treated well and have decent benefits. If the opportunity to increase one of these factors comes up, without decreasing the others, I will probably take it.

    There, was that gen-Y-ey enough for you?
  25. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: H M
    Your degree helps you ensure you have a ladder to climb. You are not entitled to anything beyond that and Tim Horton's beginners do not make 16.50 an hour.

    You can make more money being a plumber or an electrican then you can working in most offices. However, there is a stigma about "blue collar" work. Your own Tim Horton's comment show's you think you are better because of your degree. Knowledge is subjective.

  26. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: The "blue collar" sitgma is probably one of the sources of Gen Y etc, conception or misconception. Gen Y's will work hard in an office but Boomers don't think we'lll get our hands dirty. (so to speak)

  27. D Chris from Calgary, Canada writes: It's funny how a generation that runs from being born in 1980 to 2000 is being labeled for their work ethic. The poor kids that are 8 years old, and it's already been decided what sort of worker they'll be.

    That said, obviously these "myths" are going to be off base; they're about a generation with a 20-year spread, where roughly a quarter of them are old enough to be through university by now.

    How is it decided where a generation starts and ends for these labels? Today's 8 year olds are just like the ones born in 1980, is that it?
  28. The Blind Man Is King from Burlytown, Canada writes: I'm a Gen Y (though just barely) with a uni degree in a general arts stream. While I lack the patience to read all of these comments thoroughly (aren't I entitled to have someone read them to me?), I feel like I'm sufficiently qualified to call BS on "Timber Wolf" and his self-absorbed Gen-something-before-letters-were-invented ways.

    I'd be willing to bet he's just surly because his hair has started to fall out and his back hurts when he gets up in the morning. He remembers when he was young and he had to walk to work uphill both ways through 3 ft of snow. These days, all those young whippersnappers are hanging out at malls and scaring him away from his favourite Shoppers Drug-Mart (the one with the new-style BP monitor outfitted with the nice, comfy chair) and he's angry enough to learn how to type, buy a computer and try and bring the fight to their own turf -- teh interweb.

    Things have changed plenty since you started your career at the fur trading hut, boy-oh. Sure, you could start out bargain basement at 24k/yr and work your way up, but you'd have to live at home for a decade and while you divert half of that paltry salary to RSP contributions and the other half to $10 pints at the local pub. The landscape has changed at the bottom level, your eyesight has just gotten too poor to see it from way up high on your ivory tower.
  29. Jeff C from Canada writes: Knowledge is True Opinion - I think you have a skewed sense of the white collar : blue collar work. I'm 24, have a degree and a boiler's ticket, have spent a year since graduating in both the office and the field (and now back to the office) and have a nice salary. One of my best friends spent two years living with me to get an instrumentation ticket, makes more money than me, owns a house, on his 2nd new truck, and a lot of toys ($23k on his new sled). I own a condo, still have a car I bought when I was in university, and no toys (nowhere to put them and nothing to haul them with).

    Yet I made the choice, and the longterm choice, to go into this line of work hoping it will really start to pay out in the 10 years range. Also of the people I met when I was in university it seemed that the kids from the cities didn't even really know about all the "blue collar" work that was out there. Of course that's my personal opinion and being from a small town you pretty much know someone in every type of trade. back to the point, I don't think blue collar:white collar has anything to do with the generation.
  30. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: Jeff I agree with you, and I'm view isn't skewed it's expressed in your own observation. It's seems gone are the days when someone wants to grow up and go into a trade. (Not everyone) A lot see the office as the way to go, the way to make real "business" money. When the opposite in most cases is true. A qualty tradesman can out earn an office worker easily.

    I think that work ethic stigma is tied to the type of work. Putting in a 12 hour day at the office is tough but a 12 hour day onsite is most cases is tougher.

    I also came from a small town, My first jobs were all manual labour, utility companies, contracting, etc. Now, in Toronto I share the opinion of some "old folk" Unless you put in a full day of hard labour you don't know what hard work is.

  31. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: Allistair nailed it. I can't decide what irks me the most:

    My parents' generation that only required one job to pay for everything, along with the gold-plated pension they earn, along with their constant yammering about "in my age I had to...."(never mind the pot), or

    My generation (I'm 29) of narcissistic mortgage-obsessed flotilla of superficial instant gratification p!ssies who think being armed with degrees entitles them to a job starting at 50K$, which would allow them to buy that condo while still living with Mommy and Daddy at the age of 30. These babies whine about everything, not realizing that their car, in-house laundry, phone, internet and dinner is already taken care of.

    Stats Can released figures a while back that said that nearly 35% of my generation, at the age of 27-30, is still living at home .

    At age 30? 35%?? What they need is a swift kick in the @ss to get out and live on their own!
  32. Dan Thomas from Canada writes: Jake Richardson from Kingston has it right. I've seen very very few employers show any loyalty whatsoever. So much could be said about why employers can't retain their employees.
  33. Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: Eric, I couldn't agree with you more. Not that my confirmation is worth didly, but I thought I'd show solidarity on this one.
  34. Tango Zulu from Canada writes:
    All generations have hard workers and underachievers, labelling the Y gen is wrong. However, one thing I have noticed, as a manager in a large organization, is the difficulty of some gen Y have accepting any criticism or critical review of their work - they can get very defensive. Maybe it's because society told these people all their life how wonderful they were and they were never allowed to fail at anything.

    I must say, as a Gen Xer I am somewhat envious of the fact that Gen Y is graduating into an economy with lots of jobs available where Gen X graduated into a recession and our careers took longer to develop as a result. $40k starting wage is nothing for a young and inexperienced person these days with the right credentials.
  35. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: "GEN Yers overestimate the "value" of their degree."

    Amen.

    You graduated with a degree in the general arts stream? Congratulations! You're........... average.

    I realized my mistake after I graduated with my Hons. B.A. So I worked full time, lived on my own, applied and got into school for nex year that'll see me working full time, rid myself of the bank of Mommy and Daddy. Most kids in my age bracket would stay at home, enjoy X box live and free cable while searching on the net for a job, never mind hitting the streets. This, coming from a generation that prides itself on multiple degrees yet lack the ability to string together an intelligent sentence together (what's a hamburger paragraph??)

    We live in an era where services and information are the name of the game. Unless you spin that degree into something marketable, general arts is a surefire way to heat that skillet, make sure the fries are piping out and shakes served cold.
  36. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: Knowledge is True Opinion: I hear ya loud and clear and agree 100%.
  37. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: " H M from Canada writes: Uh, if a degree does not entitle me to make more than minimum wage, I wouldn't have bothered getting one."

    Degree entitles you to just that: a degree.

    Busting your butt, reading employment trends, marketing yourself to suitable avenues, applying to jobs non-stop, networking, etc will entitle you to making more than minimum wage.
  38. Corrado S from hammatown, Canada writes: By the time I finish school, I will be in my thirties (I'm at the cusp of the gen Y) and I will have a BSc, MSc and a PhD. I have remained in school because I know that my degrees (especially a PhD) will allow me to have multiple options for a career and that I have a better chance to start at a higher pay base (how I use my degrees will be dependent on only myself). If my degrees don't allow me this option, then what purpose is their to staying in school for 12 years beyond high school? When I do enter the work force, I don't feel that I should start at the top, but at the same time, I shouldn't start at the bottom. While my degrees do not entitle me to any kind of job, they should allow me to have a competitive edge.
  39. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: " Timber Wolf from Richmond, BC, Canada writes: While there are many notable exceptions, I generally find that Generation Y kids have a terrible work ethic. Then again, when you consider that their parents were baby boomers, what can you expect?"

    Exactly. When you're 26, still living with Mommy and Daddy, but make enough to pay for your own things as opposed to living on your own, which you should at that age, and being forced to budget and pay for things you need as opposed to easily buying things you want, can you blame them? I can!

    The majority of baby boomers need to get over their liberal guilt and kick their lazy, well-fed adult kids out of their houses so that the kids will have a chance to learn, have life bat them around a bit so hopefully they'll learn the hard way.
  40. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: "then what purpose is (sic) their to staying in school for 12 years beyond high school?"

    Maybe spelling?
  41. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Paul Collins and Alpha Sigma: Geez, there's enough angst in your opinions to qualify for therapy. Personally I don't care what you think of me and it is for sure that boomers don't care about you either. But there's nothing, absolutely nothing you or your generation can do about it simply because there's a lot more of us than there is of you, which when we're all worm-fodder you will realize very quickly. Yes, we have used Xers and especially the Yers aka whiners, just as every generation in the history of human evolution has used the generation it begat. Welcome to the human experience. Do you people get together in secret Gen Y clubs and have a two minute hate for boomers. Don't know the reference, read George Orwell. Oops excuse me, get a book on tape as anything so archaic as "reading a book" goes against the need to use as much energy as possible to gain knowledge or entertainment. Canada is now the largest country in the world since both Ukraine and Georgia (the one in outside of Russia) are independent states and therefore do not contribute to the land mass of the former Soviet Union, so where is it that you cannot afford to buy land. While real estate is indeed pricey, only that which is closest to a city's core is over priced. But that's part of the game. Those who want the closest seats, will pay more. Yes, won't it be great when all we boomers bite the dust,etc. There will be so many juicy, cushy jobs for people like you that it will be a situation where you'll wish there were more people. And that will be true because your standard of living will decrease as there will not be enough people to provide all the services you want. Get ready for the robot class. You think the Japanese are developing this technology for a laugh. Think again.
  42. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: "While real estate is indeed pricey, only that which is closest to a city's core is over priced. But that's part of the game."

    If anything, baby boomers, who bought their houses back in God knows when for a fraction of what they have risen to today, are the ones cashing in when they sell their houses purchased for 98K for now 300K .

    "There will be so many juicy, cushy jobs for people like you that it will be a situation where you'll wish there were more people."

    Are you kidding? With oursourcing already being de rigueur, jobs that are increasingly given on contract with minimum benefits as opposed to jobs4life the baby boomers had, the job market now is very, very different than it was back in the day. Now only if I could get my parents to realize that...
  43. - gaia - from Canada writes: The ageism on display here is appalling. No generation has essential qualities about them. Assuming essentialism-by-age is usually done by those who wish to exercise power over others. And that's what this is really all about: power. The irony is that most who admonish youth for having a "culture of entitlement" tend to be those who hold power and feel entitled to keep it. A generation ago, school was more accessible, real wages were higher, and jobs were more secure. The New England Journal of Medicine also recently revealed that what was considered a clinical and rare amount of stress a few decades ago is now the norm. Conditions are empirically harder for new generations. And the results are predictable. If someone who gains employment realizes that they worked harder and sacrificed more than their employers did a generation ago (and, in some cases, are even more qualified and more productive than those "higher on the ladder"), then they're going to be motivated to demand more than what they're getting. They're going to demand fair wages, adequate benefits, reasonable job security and a better balance between rote tasks and empowering ones. If such reasonable remuneration isn't reciprocated, then there shouldn't be any surprise when young people feel "entitled" to be treated fairly and equitably. But the powerful know that fairness and equity means they have to make concessions. That's why they blame those with less power than them. The real arrogance lies with rich profiteers who think they're entitled to benefit from a system that compels people to pay for their own training and then grovel to prospective employers in order to get from them permission to enrich them.
  44. Andrea C from Canada writes: Tim Horton's in some areas (such as Calgary) does pay $17 an hour to start, plus benefits. Many fast food places are paying $10 an hour.

    When I finished university (in a down market) around winter 1996, $30k was a good starting salary (unless you were in comp sci, engineering, etc). At 2.4% CPI inflation, that would be about $40k now -- in a booming economy. My husband started at $48k, which would be $64k now.

    If you don't want to pay Gen Y a good starting salary, find someone else to work for you. Isn't that how a market economy works? It's not entitlement -- it's a workers' market.
  45. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Eric the Red: Then all you need is to tell your parents this fact when next you sit down for supper at their place like tonight for instance.
    I guess then to beat this contract dilemma, you'll need to be inventive and start a company that gets these contracts. Of course finding staff in your age demographic will be nigh impossible as their expectations mirror your own perspective.
    Most boomers have had four or five jobs in their working careers, Eric. You must be referring to government jobs only.
  46. Mark P from Calgary, Canada writes: I think most people in Gen Y would love to have jobs with the stability and regular salary increases and reasonable pay that the boomers have. But all too often, their work is undervalued and underappreciated, and the only way to get a raise is to leave for another firm.

    And the job market that university grads are coming into, since 2001, has been pretty horrible, with many of my classmates taking years to get jobs in their field (engineering), if they even got jobs at all. In many cases, after the stock market crash in 2001, boomers cancelled their planned retirements and have stuck it out in the workforce for a much longer period than they were going to, displacing Gen Y from these jobs.
  47. Eric the Red from Uzbekistan writes: Gogh Forit: I moved out on my own a long time ago. I figured with the vitriol I'm spewing it would have clicked for you that I'm not part of the Gen Yers at the family trough. Curious: do you still feed your kids? Do their laundry?

    To beat the contract dilemma, I went back to school, got certified in a well paying job that has a niche market. I look forward to bypassing the condo mortgage realestatespeak and getting a house with a nice garden.

    If I had to find staff, I'd definitely want people like myself on board: hard-working, loyal and not apt to pass over one job for another merely at the dangle of a few bucks more (unlike H M).
  48. J S from Toronto, Canada writes: I think it's unfair to label an entire generation with the same brush. I also think it's foolish to think that the corporate environment has remained the same. My Grandfather worked for Stelco for his entire life. They treated him well with a good wage, excellent benefits and a generous pension. My Dad worked for Firestone for 27 years and was let go when they closed the plant and warehouse in Hamilton. For the last 10 years of my Dad's working life he had 5 different jobs. Companies don't encourage or reward loyalty anymore - why should employee's give it? Sure, label Gen Y as job-hoppers but also report why. In today's working world, look out for yourself because no one else is going to. And don't worry about quiting - the company isn't going to feel bad firing you due to a 'restructuring' to bring in someone younger for less pay. I'm actually sorry to hear that Gen Y isn't job-hopping. Perhaps if the workforce were unstable companies might actually care about thier employees.
  49. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: H M, a degree entitles you to exactly NOTHING. It may or may not open certain doors for you, but entitles you? Nope. You have the right to work wherever you please, and you have every right to job hop as well. If companies complain about job hoppers, they haven't invested enough resources in making themselves more attractive as a long term career option. I don't feel one bit sorry for any business person who cries about not being able to hang onto employees. Pay them, and they will come. As for the criticism directed towards the so-called milleniums, I think it's way off base. They were raised by boomers - how did you expect them to turn out?
  50. Sue City from Canada writes: Blah, blah, blah. A work ethic is something that you learn from your parents and/or your environment, it has nothing to do with your generation. Whether you're a boomer, Gen X or Gen Y, some of you are lazy wastes of space and some of you are hard workers. Period.
  51. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: There was a time when two good looking youn ladies like those in the picture would have been willing to sleep their way to the top. What is it with this new generation?
  52. Jeff C from Canada writes: Andrea C from Canada writes: When I finished university (in a down market) around winter 1996, $30k was a good starting salary (unless you were in comp sci, engineering, etc). At 2.4% CPI inflation, that would be about $40k now -- in a booming economy. My husband started at $48k, which would be $64k now.

    Just for some reference, I graduated in 2006, the engineers that I graduated with who got jobs had a salary range of $50k-$60k. My friend who graduated business in 2007 said the average B.Comm was $45k. Over four years I spent about $70k-$80k in tuition/living expenses during university, paid for by scholarships and a good summer job, no bank of mom and dad, and no living with them as they were 1100km away.
  53. Richard Hawk from Canada writes: "I think that work ethic stigma is tied to the type of work. Putting in a 12 hour day at the office is tough but a 12 hour day onsite is most cases is tougher."

    Ahh - I couldn't disagree more. Anyone who thinks working in an office is "cushy" and not real work has never done it. Yes there are easy office jobs like just answering the phone - but that is a totally different animal.

    Try having clients and deadlines and reports coming out your wazoo, with employees to manage and people who don't care about excuses or even rational reasons. Try going home at night with a ton of responsibility and stress on your shoulders.

    When you go home after manual labour, that's it, you're done. There is no homework or constantly having to update your skills or being sent on business trips which can span weekends and holidays, etc.

    Almost any type of job can be difficult if you hold a high enough position and have a proper work ethic. But I found this post laughable, so many office workers would say the opposite - that manual labourers have it easy, that they should try real work. But I guess everyone always thinks the grass is greener on the other side, when in fact it rarely is.
  54. Andrea C from Canada writes: Right. Not much has changed, if you do the math.
  55. Andrea Mitchiavelli from Canada writes: Frankly, this notion that Gen-Y is lazy is nothing but self-serving twaddled propagated by the most selfish generation ever born: the baby boomers. As a group, boomers have received everything they've ever asked for from the day they were born, but they are now facing their mortality and want to make themselves feel better by slandering an entire cohort of people. [By the way, lumping Gen Xers in with Boomers is ludicrous. Gen Xers (and late Boomers) graduated from high school, college or university during the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression; the recession of the early 90s. Jobs were few and far between. Those who managed to find them laboured for years at part-time and minumum wage jobs that were far beneath their skill and educational level. Most will spend the rest of their lives trying to make the money they didn't make in their 20s and 30s so they too can have homes and families, gasp, just like boomers.] Besides, let's not forget IT'S MARKET!!! Right now, in many parts of the country, there are more people trying to buy labour than there are selling it, so it's only natural wages will rise and people will change jobs to chase dollars. Since new entrants to the labour market (Gen Y) are less encumbered by mortgages and families, they find switching jobs easier than many of the rest of us. Good for them. They were born at the right time.
  56. A Rose from Toronto, Canada writes: Richard Hawk: "easy office jobs like just answering the phone"? Are you kidding? You've obviously never worked in a call centre where you are bombarded with angry and rude customers who probably have every right to be angry because the company you work for treats their customers quite poorly (but there's no excuse for the rudeness). Can you imagine having to work for Bell Canada for instance... I couldn't imagine a worse hell than having to deal with all of their rightfully-cranky customers. Then, of course, you're also dealing with cranky middle-management who are pushing you to get your AHT (Average Handling Time) down the the target of 200 seconds... and those people don't like rational reasons either (such as, "but my customer was really angry"). Answering a phone all day is anything but easy.
  57. Dan Thomas from Canada writes: Here is one for you. A couple of weeks ago I had a call back from a job interview. The interviewer told me they chose to hire another candidate. I did the usual and asked if there was anything I could have done different or if there is a skill or more lacking. I was told that there was no particular reason other than that the interviewer thought I was too ambitious. How is that for a kick in the face?
  58. H M from Canada writes: Trust me, Tim Hortons (at least where I am) really does start at 16/hour. And if I wanted to make ridiculous amounts of money, I would have gone into trades. That's where the HUGE money is. I am all for blue collar jobs- I just chose not to do one. I appreciate the guy who builds my house, fixes my toilet and grows my food.

    My degree shows I can stick with something for 4 years. It shows I have the education to understand the information I work with. My degree is my foot in the door.

    My degree would not entitle me to earn any better of a starting wage at Tim Hortons, but it does get my foot into the door of a place where the starting salary is higher.

    I never claimed it made me better than anybody else-or a harder worker- but it does show my willingness to invest time and money. I would not have been hired if I didn't have my degree, so I would say it paid off. It gives me more options.
  59. Darrin Duell from Canada writes: I think rather than breaking this down into generations, we could gain more insight by looking at how increased urbanization of youth has impacted suitability for different types of work. Rural kids are expected to handle responsiblity and help out with farm choirs. The 60s generation were 1 generation off the farm, the Xs were 2 generations away, and the Ys are now 3 generations out. Now lets look at which generation is more likely to know how to change the oil on their car. That tells part of the story... NOW ask which generation is most likely to know how to set up a web page.. that will tell the rest of the story..
  60. Jeremy K from vancouver canada, Canada writes: gen y jobhop frequently because they have no choice. companies keep laying them off!

    if the companies would show a tad of loyalty it would be returned in spades.
  61. Jay D from Canada writes: I don't see job hopping as bad behaviour provided the hopper is gaining good experience before moving on. Employers hate to see someone who doesn't stick around for a couple of years because half the first year the new employee is learning the job. Employers should be happy to hire someone who is looking out for his career though. The person is likely seeking new skills and experiences and is probably a more versatile worker than someone who sticks to the same job description year after year. That said, I think that there is room within an organization to seek out new experiences without leaving a company. To each his own.
  62. Tian Feng from hangzhou, China writes: The high expectations come from the fact that to go to university now must of us normal students have to work hard ever summer, I moved furniture and was commended as one of the hardest workers there, and take out 40, 000 dollar student loans just to get through. I worked harder at University than most people do at their jobs and I have the marks to prove it. After doing all of that I expect that I should start out better than someone of the previous generation who graduated with a high school diploma and no debt. When my father went to university it was free tuition for anyone on the deans list. Now if I have a 4.15 GPA out of 4.3 I get a whole 1400 dollars a year which at the University of New Brunswick brings my tuition down to what it is in the rest of the country.

    As was mentioned earlier, most of the young and talented workers are going abroad for better salaries and benefits.
  63. DV P from Montreal, Canada writes: Does anyone find it ironic that the generation that benefited from the greatest economic expansion in Canadian history - without growing up in a Great Depression or fighting either of the two World Wars, is giving lectures to Gen X and Gen Y about being spoiled and entitled babies?
  64. Matthew Thiesen from Vancouver, Canada writes: Gogh Forit from Canada writes: These generational groups should be applauding any government committed to pay off Canada's national debt today, as the Tories have done, because those bills have to be paid off sooner (better) than later (worse) and the lower the debt is when the Gen.Y'ers move into middle age, the better it will be for them in their attempt to save enough for retirement or have a government in better financial straits to provide them with the programs they've grown up with and take for granted. ------------------------- Your comments are all true, they are just missing one detail: THE LIBERALS PAYED OF DEBT TOO!!!!!Quite a bit more than Harperites. OOOoo um i think Harper has a few other issues too don't ya think? don't make things like this political. NO. bad babyboomer, bad. Your lack of disclosure and recognition of the liberals along-side the CONS alike is what makes me disregard what you say. What baby-boomers don't like to hear from younger people is the word NO. They want it there way as much as new generations. Open your eyes before you make judgements and you will not have to look back to re-evaluate so much. My dad taught me that, and he is a babyboomer. Now sit back and relax, this is only one opinion that you will have to digest about. BTW, stop defining people by age. Its the new racism in this country: AGE-EST.
  65. Gimme Danger from Canada writes: As someone (just barely) on the front end of Gen Y, I find this whole conversation idiotic.
    1) I won't be lectured by boomers on anything. You all didn't do squat as a collective, you're the pig in the python and hit the demographic jackpot. My grandparents (WWII) generation? Sure, you went through hell, lecture all you like. Boomers, keep moving, I'll just be behind you cleaning your mess.
    2) We're not lazy but we do job hop. We've seen our parents downsized, rightsized, lose stock options, pensions, get laid off, etc. We know better than to have loyalty to our employers when they don't care about us. Right now I have a job where I don't make much money, but have lots of opportunity to move up and great bosses. As soon as my bosses move on or I see my potential career growth being capped, I'm up out of there. Loyalty earns loyalty.
  66. Cheryl Nelson from Bloomington, MN, United States writes: Knowledge is True Opinion from Canada writes: The "blue collar" sitgma is probably one of the sources of Gen Y etc, conception or misconception. Gen Y's will work hard in an office but Boomers don't think we'lll get our hands dirty. (so to speak) _________________________


    The Boomers were the ones who steered Gen X and Gen Y away from careers in skilled trades. They don't just think you won't get your hands dirty. They don't want you to.
  67. D A from Canada writes: Er, I don't really think we're a bunch of selfish job-hoppers. But it wouldn't suprise me. We grew up in the wake of a business culture acclimatizing to regular layoffs and the bitterness of generations of boomers realizing that they mean nothing to the companies they work for and that there is no such thing as a job for life. At the same time, we were bombarded by the tech bubble and exhorted every 5 seconds at school to go into post-secondary programs that were breathlessly hyped to lead to job offers for huge salaries upon graduation.

    Most of us didn't swallow it, but if you see someone who has no loyalty and expects quick results, it's because those are the expectations your generation shoved at us. If you've fed someone a diet of your own cough, don't be surprised if they end up full of it.
  68. old Curmudgeon From Ottawa from Canada writes: We are all slaves to the system, get used to it. The real problem is the almost complete collapse of the social compact between employers and employees. There used to be some degree of trust between both parties that if the employee performed well, in return the company would provide a living wage, stability, benefits and a pension. Previous generations fought wars and worked their hands to the bone to bring society to that level. Then the 80's happened and the slow descent into savage capitalism undermined much of the gains hard won by our fathers and grandfathers.

    Now, people are layed off on a whim, to increase the bottom line.

    I entered the high tech work force in the early 70's. Worked for the same company for 14 years. I have now have had 10 engineering jobs in 20 years. A job every two years, due to constant downsizing.

    I find myself layed off yet again 3 months ago, at age 51. I was a star employee all of my carreer, now cant find a job in my field because of my age. I stand to lose most of what I managed to build over the years through no fault of my own. I'm pissed!

    Ask me about loyalty to employers!

    And for all the young whipper snappers out there spewing bile towards the "boomers", you should realize two things: first the boomers are your parents who gave you the lifestyle you enjoyed growing up and that many of you still enjoy at no cost to you.

    Secondly, when you wake up at age 50, eating dog food because all the jobs are gone overseas and your lifetime savings are eaten up by recurring unemployement due to layoffs, or your RRSP money evaporated due to the market's Ponzi schemes, you should remember that the Boomers did not do this to you, but your government and business leaders did, in the search for evermore increasing taxes and profits.

    We are fast regressing towards total serfdom.
  69. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: Secret in any job is to identify who actually does the work. This is particularly true it a white colour setting. Somebody has the title: somebody else probably does the work. No telling who it might be. Sometimes is an underling. Sometimes its a secretary. Sometimes the whole section is rotten, and somebody from a parallel structure (who, according to the organigrams) shouldn't be doing that job at all, actually does it. Need something fast? Need something done right? Find these persons, and cultivate them. They are about 10% of any workplace.

    I say this because, where I work, there are about five of these people. A question arises, and the cry goes up 'ask Kara'; something needs doing NOW, and everybody says 'get Nathan'; a real piece of crap? Look likea job for Margaret. Three are in their middle forties. One is about 30. One, just promoted, is about 25. The rest are at work, but don't actually do work, and NOBODY swings a lead like a 50-60 year old who figures they've 'paid their dues' and don't have to produce any more. All you get from those clowns is whinging and more work (generally their's, with the added requirement that you spend some time hand holding and ego stroking in order to transition them back to being merely useless (and not actively disruptive) once they've been mortified, shocked, insulted by having been asked to do something).
  70. J K from Halifax, Canada writes: Has anyone stopped to consider that the reason Gen-Yers "job-hop" is not because they are lazy, self-absorbed or seeking instant gratification but because the long term, stable jobs of their parents' generation no longer exist? Temporary jobs and labour market flexibility are the real culprits behind this. Trust me, most would take the cushy unionized jobs of the boomers any day of the week.
  71. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Eric the Red: Fair enough response.
  72. Winston Churchill from London, Canada writes: 'it a white colour'. Not enough coffee. 'In a white collar' of course, intended.
  73. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Matthew Thiesen from Vancouver: While the Liberals did also pay down debt and as you argue, more of it, the reason for that is because they were in office for thirteen years. Allow the Tories the same length of time in office and their debt repayment will far outstrip that of the Liberals. Matthew: for all your youthful wisdom, your socialist stripes are showing. What happened in this country to real debate where an exchange of ideas/perspectives are then considered and rebutted without resorting to labels. What do you mean "age-ism" as being "racist". Age is not a race, but it's not totally your fault. You're a victim of the socialist inculcation of your generation. You've been taught that when losing an argument to logic, you resort to name calling or labelling. Sexist, racist, "age-ist" bigot, homophobe, all these labels are used increasingly more by people who don't possess the ability to think outside the box. Your generation is great at multi-tasking, you all push buttons very well. I was reading an article the other day commenting on how your generation has managed to expand the 24 hour work day to 31 hours of work through the ability to read email and text messages while eating breakfast to a whole host of function-related duties. Bravo! and I'm not being facetious. With your reduced numbers being able to process more work per workday is a benefit to your workplace. However, the ability to think critically and think for yourselves is lost in that trade off. Your generation is very well trained but poorly educated. Your dislike for boomers outside of the nuclear family is telling, but that's alright, that's part of your continuing maturity. Someday your anger angst will subside as you move into being 50 and the then younger generation deride you as being selfish, self-centered and just plain stupid. It's the roll call of generations to trash those who went before and came after.
  74. Bill Smith from The wilds of the GTA, Canada writes: Interesting article, being a member of the sandwich generation (X) as opposed to the Boomers and Millenials I have some observations from when I was in my early twenties graduating from University back in the recession of the early 1990s. Loyalty is a two way street. If organizations treat their staff as disposable assets, guess what, you will have a bunch of mercenaries on the payroll and will bail when a better deal comes along. I don't blame the millenials for expecting the moon from potential employers. Once the boomers have been put off onto the ice flows, no amount of immigration is going to solve things, do you think an Indian software engineer is going to come to Canada to mix paint at a big box retailer? No, he or she is going to stay in India and create a start up in Bengalore. There is a world wide talent shortage, not just in Canada, considering we don't recognize immigrant credentials and experiences, they will stay close to home. I think treating people as individuals in the workplace, give them a reason to be engaged with their jobs, give them the resources to do their job properly, recognize their victories, and nurture their talent makes great sense for the long haul. Sad thing, like one of the experts in the article pointed out, it's not a popular solution and I think it will be one of those lessons organizations will learn the hard way, not just with millenials but with all generations in the workplace.
  75. Gimme Danger from Canada writes: Bill Smith, you're a clever cat. I like you.
    You should go run something.
  76. Dave R. from Canada writes: Firstly stereotyping an entire generation is wrong. Generationalism is as discriminatory and dangerous as racism and sexism. This kind of media hype is repeated every generation ad nauseam as a social economic control mechanism to crack the work whip over the heads of the young who might want to rebel against the corruption of the work farce. This religion of the work ethic together with generationalism has been used and abused every generation since John Wayne marched home from Iwo Jima. Ronald Reagan was the most effective propagandist to trash the entire 60's generation and now it's common practice to blame all the ills of the world on the "Baby Boomers" while praising the WWII generation as "The Greatest Generation". Great idea if you like fascistic octogenarians trying to make a world of perpetual war. One of the most enlightening and liberating truths that the 60's Generation brought the world is that not all work is good and merely because someone is willing to pay you to do something doesn't mean submitting to his temptation is the ethical thing to do. In many cases it just means he has too much money. All work and no ethic makes Jack a bad boy.
  77. Dave R. from Canada writes: Hey, kids, work it out with a cellphone. Sit on it and rotate. You're sure to get a buzz. If that doesn't work - stick it in your mouth and smoke it. C'mon now just kidding. Work is great for building character. It's even better for building buts..It must be an inspiration to the world to see that while the flower of Canadian femininity builds luxury condos for the rich, the size of their butts increases proportionately. Surely that's what women have always meant by social justice. But, hey, don't judge a woman by the colour of her skin - but by the contents of her butt...er...character.
  78. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Only a worthless, self-entitled, self-important, whining boomer would label an entire generation with the same stereotype.
    • Posted 15/04/08 at 3:58 PM EST |