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My husband's friend is unfaithful to his wife

CLAUDIA DEY

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:31 PM EDT 24/04/08

Will I do more or less harm by keeping my mouth shut? ...Read the full article

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  1. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: Keep you trap shut..Your husbands friends business isn't yours
  2. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Would the advice be different if the gender of the cheater were . . . "different" ?

    Sorry. Dumb question, at least on this forum.
  3. CD W from Canada writes: Both members of the marriage are entitled to equal knowledge. Good news, when the woman finally finds out, she will clean him out. The courts, the grand mole whacker.
  4. Mike L. from Canada writes: If ever there was a case for STFU, this is it.

    I would instead be more worried about her husband's selection of friends; this guy doesn't exactly sound like a great influence to hang around.
  5. Bill Smith from The wilds of the GTA, Canada writes: Tough one, what does it say about your husband who has a friend who is a serial cheater and boasts about in confidence. You can't go to the wife, it will be the equivelent of playing peuinata with a hive full of killer bees.

    As tempting as it might and she does deserve to know what her cheating partner is up to. You just can't the collateral damage will be your marriage.
  6. L T from Canada writes: It used to be considered a private (between the couple) matter when the male in a relationship battered the female. People used all this same rationalizing to justify their silence, before we as a society realized it was just plain abuse.
  7. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: If you do decide to spill the beans, do it anonymously (ie, through a random email account). It gives the wife an easy way out if she knows about it already, and doesn't really care that much. If the husband has always been like this, it's not entirely unfathomable that the wife knows.

    I think the superior course of action is to do nothing though. It doesn't sound like you are especially close with this couple, so mind your own business.
  8. The Wight from Canada writes: I was in this exact situation a few years back.

    An entire friendship group knew that a specific husband was cheating with a co-worker. We all hung out and everyone played nicey nicey so that the wife never found out about the cheating. We knew her through the husband, so she wasn't tight with us, but it wasn't like she was a stranger.

    At some point, I got sick of the duplicity and lying - on EVERYONE'S part - and just told her. She was mad at me, at first, but after a few months when the divorce was done, she took me for coffee and thanked me for being the ONLY HONEST PERSON IN THE ROOM. She walked away from all those friendships precisely because everyone chose expediency over the right course of action.
  9. B A from Ottawa, Canada writes: Um, at what point did anyone say that the guy's wife didn't know. Marriages come in all shapes and sizes. Some are very Puritan and some are insanely, even self-destructively, open. To assume his wife doesn't know is to assume she has the same morality structure as the writer while simultaneously coupled with a greater level of ignorance of her own situation. My advice to the writer is to let people be, travel more and read the local newspapers. You'd be amazed at different people's approach to certain activities and relationships. The first time I was in Switzerland I was stunned by the ads in the local newspaper listing prices for services that we would consider very illegal here in Canada. And right beneath the price list a huge notice saying "we cater to couples." It takes all types. I guess. If the writer's uncomfortable with her husband's confidence in her she should simply ask that he not tell her.
  10. N B from Canada writes: Wow, the moral superiorty of some people are incredible. Has it occurred to some of you that perhaps the cheater's wife is fully aware of his actions? And perhaps she has decided that now is not the time to confront the situation? Or perhaps she has confronted it with him and they have come to an 'understanding'?

    And the comparison to physically/emotionally abused women is revolting and only serves to diminsh their terrible experiences.

    I whole-heartedly endorse the advice of the columnist. Mind your own business.
  11. Steve J from toronto, Canada writes: Listen lady, do what your conscience tells you. People here will only tell you what they think is right based on their experiences. They dont know you, your husband or the friend and everyone is jumping to judge them !!! much as i have deep respect for everyone posting here.
    Your know the husband (hopefully) and the friend so do what you really think is justice and be ready for the consequences. You can not tell any guy to chose between friends and you, regardless of what they sound like, that is really dumb. At the same time, the wife should know about it somehow, it's only fair to her as a woman who is about to become pregnant. And your husband, well, tell him you're considering meeting a male prostitute, that should bloody fix him :-)

    Good luck. If only women knew how smart they are for themselves versus how smart men tell them they are.
  12. Dan Thomas from Canada writes: The wife needs to keep her mouth shut. If the wife were friends with the husbands friend's wife then by all means, but she is removed from the situation. As for concerns about the selection of the husbands friends, no dice, doesn't matter. I have a friend who is known to cheat, I don't cheat on my wife nor would I ever. We are friends because I can overlook his indiscressions and NOT judge him which to me is important in a friendship, I'm his friend not his parent or conscience.
  13. al goguen from victoria, Canada writes: Even one kid is too much to be in such a bad marriage. If you can't confront the situation, well chose someone who can. Or write an anonymous letter to the both of them and let them know that all their friends are aware of their marital affair. If they can't repect each other now, imagine what it`s goinf to be like in an another five years. If the husband is not sexually satisfied at home, and fools around with prostitutes, well if you care about your friend - she should know. Are you waiting for her to get infected with HIV. Get moving. Too many are living the world of keeping family secret even though family members are maimed for life.
  14. David Clarke from Vancouver, Canada writes: B A and N B have said it well.

    One other point: If, for whatever reason, the guy needs a bit on the side, then going with a prostitute suggests that what is missing, if anything, from his relationship is not emotional. Having an affair with a friend or colleague runs the risk of becoming something more than a fling and destroying the marriage.

    I think Ms Busybody is insecure about her own relationship.
  15. J M from Canada writes: if she does not already know, it is only a matter of time until she does.
    the trouble with being the tattle-tale/honest, is that some people simply don;t find issue with this type of behaviour.

    at the end of the day, you get the relationship you can live with.
    if he is sleeping around, chances are, there are other more apparent problems in the relationship, that both are choosing to live with.
  16. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: Tell her the facts, as much as you know, without trying to give advice unless she asks. Though to be honest, and from my own experience, it wouldn't surprise me if she already suspected her husband was unfaithful and just didn't want to admit it to herself, out of pride more than anything. She'll probably be angry with you, lash out at you, try to belittle you, call you a liar and distance herself from you. Don't be discouraged by that; give her the distance and time she needs to process what you've told her. Remember -- what she does with the information is up to her.
  17. B. Ramey from Canada writes: Just be aware that in hanging someone else's dirty laundry on the line makes your laundry fair game also. And dollars to donuts your righteous indignation is not so much about the friends affairs as it is about him seeming to get away with it. Which really shouldn't bug you unless the same thing was done to you somewhere along the line.

    And don't kid yourself she knows. If this has been repetitive she couldn't help but know. So another question would be why is she choosing to experience the betrayal, abandonment, and sabotage? Why live in denial? For those answers you have to go back even further.

    This is about so much more than just one guy fooling around but go ahead blow it apart and see where the pieces fall. I will guarantee you will be surprised in your friends, your husband, and yourself. Maybe this is a lesson you all need to experience.

    Good luck.
  18. Scott Weiland from STP from North Tanawanda, Canada writes: STAY OUT OF IT, WHY COMPLICATE YOUR OWN LIFE.

    THE BROTHER'S CODE IS NEVER BROKEN. EVEN BY A WIFE, THE THIRD HALF OF THE BROTHERHOOD.
  19. Gord Lewis from hmmmm, Canada writes: Some good arguments either way here, but I do notice that the 'keep quiets' are predominantly coming from males. There seems to be a growing acceptance of some kind of genetic predisposition for males to be randomly unfaithful. That is just a poor excuse for bad behaviour IMHO.

    There is one more issue that only Bill Smith has alluded to, and that is the discomfort of having a husband who can so easily dismiss his friend's behaviour, which is outrageous. This is something that could eventually drive a wedge between their marriage also, whether she is right or wrong about telling. Because one's friends values don't tend to differ that greatly from one's own values. Maybe it is her husband who should have kept his mouth shut in the first place.

    In the end I have to come down on the side of safety; i.e., HIV . . . and please don't label me as 'morally superior' for advocating doing the right thing. If you have teenagers, you are probably aware of the problems they can make for themselves through blind 'loyalty' to bad friends.
  20. azif uno from Canada writes: Scott Weiland from STP from North Tanawanda, Canada writes: STAY OUT OF IT, WHY COMPLICATE YOUR OWN LIFE.

    THE BROTHER'S CODE IS NEVER BROKEN. EVEN BY A WIFE, THE THIRD HALF OF THE BROTHERHOOD.

    And what about the SISTERHOOD???
  21. The Wight from Canada writes: B. Ramey:

    "And dollars to donuts your righteous indignation is not so much about the friends affairs as it is about him seeming to get away with it."

    Not necessarily. Some people have this ability called "empathy" and so they can envision what it would be like to be that wife, getting lied to by the spouse, being the only one in the social situation to not know about the cheating. It's less about bringing a perp to justice as it is about treating the wife with the dignity and respect she's being denied.

    If she knows, she knows and will tell this woman to MHOB. If she doesn't, she'll eventually thank her.
  22. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: Gord Lewis -- I'm glad you (a male, as far as I know [though maybe you're not -- who really knows in cyberland?]) made the comment about it being mostly males in this forum who are against revealing the infidelity. Someone else mentioned a "code", which not surprisingly favours protecting men's secrets. The way I see it -- if I were that woman with a persistently unfaithful husband, would I want someone to tell me about it? The answer is yes. And I think there are very, very few wives/girlfriends out there who would answer otherwise. Nobody likes being lied to, especially when other people are in on the "secret".
  23. Vincent D from Canada writes: Why do men insist on telling their wives/GF's EVERYTHING? If a partner tells the other partner something like this, it is MEANT to be kept in secret. It doesn't matter how you PERSONALLY feel about it. If you can't handle that, then your guy shouldn't be telling you anything.
  24. B D from Canada writes: Getting involved would presumably also drive a wedge between you and your husband, by violating his trust about something you were told in confidence. I would be more concerned about my husband's friendship and tacit acceptance of his friend's behavior. If it were my friend, I couldn't isolate the cr@ppy behavior from the person.
  25. Alberta Marlowe from Halifax, Canada writes: "His exploits have been confessed to your husband; the fact that your husband involved you means that, given the law of secrets, you must now protect the information, however bulky and unscrupulous it is proving to be."

    What "law of secrets?" You mean the one where women are supposed to keep men's secrets? Where the men just assume you will and don't even have to ask? I gave up that "law" years ago. The secret vault was full so I told all the secrets that were in it and I accept no more. Try it. It's liberating. You'll be much happier not carrying other people's crap around, and the world makes a whole lot more sense. It's a much better place.
  26. Bill McDonald from Canada writes: Wow....there's a lot of people posting here that I wouldn't want to be friends with.

    Honour. Integrity......These aren't just words in a dictionary.

    I would guarantee that if a poll was conducted with victims of maritial infidelity, 100% would want to be told. And....the sooner the better.

    My wife cheated on me. We have gone through a very long and difficult process of rebuilding our marriage. Her friends that knew and didn't say anything....or even encouraged her? They were not friends of our marriage, and they are no longer friends of my wife.

    Most that commit adultery are not well. They have issues. For many, it is like an addiction.

    The proper course of action is to tell....anonomously if you need to, but tell you should.

    Think of yourself as the victim of infedility. Herpes? other STD's? There's not one person who wouldn't want to know. At least you will have the choice to either divorce or work on you marriage. Without the knowledge, the damage continues and gets worse and worse.....
  27. Fred Forest from London, Ontario, Canada writes: As a committed man, I would not tolerate that behaviour in a friend. I would allow us to slowly drift apart. I am not my brother's keeper but I can choose to spend time with people whose value system is similar to mine. You are judged by the company you keep.
  28. Forty One Years and Counting from Canada writes: Personally, I think you should tell the wife what you know, but you might also want to tell her to prepare for the husband's Lie Factory to go into full production, with extra shifts. One of my dear old ex's put it most succinctly: "Deny, deny, deny". I guess that's the sacred "code" some of you guys here are referring to. I've had a few funny (in retrospect) experiences with that myself. A while back, I was living with a guy who came home early in the a.m. with his shirt on inside out. I was still up waiting for him, so I naturally asked him what was with his shirt. He said he'd been at a club where one of the band members was a Kiwi (a New Zealander), and since he was an Aussie, they'd exchanged shirts. My ex explained it was an Aussie/Kiwi thing and I wouldn't understand. And then after the band stopped playing, the Kiwi guy gave my ex his shirt back, and since the club was so dark, he mistakenly put it on inside out. I believed him. Months later, after a dozen more uniquely Aussie stories, I finally was confronted by "the other woman" who was really the cause of his shirt being inside out that night. I hated her, and hated her for telling me the truth, but now, years later, I'm glad she did. She did the right thing, though I didn't think so at the time.
  29. Gord Lewis from hmmmm, Canada writes: Bill McDonald, well said and I think that should be the last word. To Charlotte, yes I am male, with little need or want for 'buddies'.

    And Scott Weiland, your comment is ridiculous. What, do the guys in your beer league hockey team/drinking fraternity hold some B.S. concept of 'A BROTHER'S CODE' to have greater moral authority than the sanctity of another's marriage or of other institutions in society?? Time to grow up; relationships are not games with winners and losers. Cheating makes everyone a loser, the residue lasts a very long time and usually impacts more than two people.
  30. jack manson from winnipeg mb, Canada writes: do not go there. if the couple split, get back together the repercussions for you will be ubelievable!!
    cm
  31. Steve Gibbons from Calgary, Canada writes: Tell the person thats informing you that you don't want to hear about these incidents anymore. As for telling the wife, No its none of your business. Maybe the wife doesn't like sex, maybe she's just a bore in bed, maybe whatever but it has nothing to do with you and you have no right to interfere in someone else's life.
  32. N B from Canada writes: But Gord Lewis you do come off as morally superior quite simply because you yourself call your advice 'Doing The Right Thing'.

    Sorry but you (and I for that matter) simply lack the facts and the moral authority to make any judgement.

    Until the wife solicits council or advice, butt out. It's none of your business. It's unfathomable to me that so many people would launch a potential grenade like that on a couple's marriage based such limited information. Wow.
  33. Scott Weiland from STP from North Tanawanda, Canada writes: azif uno from Canada writes _ NOTHING IMPORTANT

    THERE IS NO SISTER CODE. BRS. BEFORE HS.

    SORRY.
  34. Hugh Draper from Vancouver, Canada writes: Poor choice in a friend and lack of integrity in the writer's marriage.

    NEXT!
  35. rob tremblay from ottawa, Canada writes: Quite simply with moral dilemna's such as this, i always beleive that i should treat others as i would like to be treated. naturally everyone will have different opinions on how they would like to be treated, but on a personal note, if i were in a fake relationship with my significant other constantly cheating, i would want to know. In saying this, i myself would deal the harsh blow that is the truth. However, i would not rush to judgement, i would not do so unless i was absolutely sure if the information i had was indeed factual. This is of most importance.
  36. Gord Lewis from hmmmm, Canada writes: N B from Canada . . . that sort of ad hominem criticism is quite expected here. However, we do have some facts: the husband is rampantly promiscuous, and that puts the health of this wife in peril. That is such a no-brainer that it barely needs categorization as 'morality', and it is certainly not judgmental. The public health argument falls into the category of human rights more than it does into anyone's supposed moral authority (nowhere have I inferred that I have any such authority).
  37. B A from Ottawa, Canada writes: Gord Lewis wrote: "the husband is rampantly promiscuous, and that puts the health of this wife in peril...The public health argument falls into the category of human rights more than it does into anyone's supposed moral authority (nowhere have I inferred that I have any such authority)." -------Damn the torpedoes! we must rescue the damsel at once !!!!! Yeah, no attempt at trying to score morality points there, Gord. Snort. Seriously though, whereas I've never indulged, y'know in some countries prostitutes have to have constant medical examinations and are taxed like any other profession, complete with benefits, pension, you name it. Just because we treat them like dirt here doesn't mean they aren't seen as contributing members of society elsewhere. Also stop assuming this woman is a victim. She might be just as bad as the husband. Our writer is only hearing one side of the story and we, as readers, can only speculate. I knew of a couple who were very active with multiple partners back in University and that's while they were trying to have a kid of their own. Did I find it kinda gross? Absolutely. Ick. But, it's not my place to lecture so long as everyone's ok with the situation (and I return to the reality that we just don't know all the facts in this case). The only person who's not ok with things is the writer and a whole lot of people here who are screaming about how evil this guy is being. Sure, he might be a creep (personally, I find the situation creepy) or he might be functioning within an agreed upon marital standard between him and his wife. If that's the case the most we should do is give a shudder, thank our stars it's not our situation and move on.
  38. Just Sayin' from Canada writes: Maybe they have an open relationship. The letter certainly doesn't read like that but we don't really know how much this woman knows about the relationship she is discussing. She has, however, ascribed her values of fidelity on someone else's situation in a very judgmental way.

    I know a couple (very good friends of mine) who have been in an open relationship for many years who often face this kind of confrontation from friends that are 'looking out for their best interests'. They feel they have every right to keep the parameters of their relationship behind closed doors but often get the 'I saw Mary with another man' sort of just thought you should know comments. They are incredibly open and honest with each other and any other partners they happen to become involved with. They also have one of the strongest, functional, rewarding relationships I have known among my friends.
  39. Alberta Marlowe from Halifax, Canada writes: Only the men benefit from Ms. Dey's solution; buddy gets to keep doing what he wants and keep tellling his friend about it. Nothing changes. The women get to carry the burden. Guess that's what the "law of secrets" and "the brotherhood" is all about.

    Has it occurred to this woman that her husband might be telling her not his friend's secrets, but his own?
  40. William Ross from Victoria BC, Canada writes: In one sentence - it is NONE of your business and if you want to destroy your relationship with the man as well as your husband and strangely enough then go ahead and tell. I did and now I am divorced ... cheer up the same thing might happen to you!
  41. G From Canada from Canada writes: kudos to the dude getting some on the side
  42. Sue City from Canada writes: Hey Claudia, it's hard work claiming everyone else's advice as your own, isn't it?
  43. C M from Calgary, Canada writes: Some of the comments on here really amaze me - why is it that we drill into our children to always tell the truth, yet we as adults struggle with it so much? We're not talking about a harmless fantasy that her husband is keeping from her - he's actually engaging in adulterous behaviour! And for anyone concerned that she's trying to get the cheating husband in trouble (although he's already done a great job of that all by himself), her true concern is for the feelings and possibly even the physical health of this woman and her children.

    I would absolutely want to be told if it were my husband. Whatever I decide to do after that (whether to stay married to him or kick him out) would be my business, but I would definitely want to know so I could have some control over my destiny.

    I also couldn't live with myself if this woman found out later that I knew and I didn't say anything - that would be harder for me to deal with than the initial anger she may feel toward me when she finds out. As others on here have said, I believe that eventually the initial anger will be replaced by gratitude for being honest with her.
  44. The Wight from Canada writes: Just sayin':

    " Maybe they have an open relationship."

    Yeah, maybe they do. If that's the case, one of the things they have to have discussed (or at least should have) is what to do when they get spotted with other people. It WILL happen (as you have noted) and friends and family WILL act in what they think is the best interests of the supposedly aggrieved party. It's human nature to care for your friends and look out for their interests, so it is inevitable.

    If that is the case with this couple, they'll let her know, in whatever way they see fit, that there is nothing to worry about. I think the anonymous tip is the best idea, in fact. They can then just safely ignore it if the concern doesn't apply.
  45. The Wight from Canada writes: Scott Weiland:

    "THERE IS NO SISTER CODE. BRS. BEFORE HS."

    LOL. I am honestly embarrassed for you.
  46. m a from Toronto, Canada writes: I once told my cousin her husband was cheating on her. Although really, she could have guessed it without my help since he only slept at home about 4 nights out of 7. She was initially angry with me and in denial, but after a while she processed it and left him.

    I knew that a work colleague was having casual sex with partners he picked up in bars while he and his wife were trying to get pregnant. I was quite disgusted and another co-worker and I discussed telling his wife. We chose not to because we barely knew her. He died of AIDS last year and his former wife has HIV. Fortunately their daughter is OK. I don't know if it would have made any difference but I will always regret not having told her.

    Claudia Dey has her head in the clouds when she says the marriage trust must be protected by lies. No one is protected by lies and no one can impose a secret on you. It's wrong to cheat, it's not wrong to talk about it.
  47. CD W from Canada writes: The truth will set someone free.
  48. Dennis sinneD from Calgary, Canada writes:

    I'd tell...
  49. Sean L. from Toronto Center, Canada writes: "I've never seriously thought about telling her before because it would not only probably lead to the breakup of their marriage, but my husband would lose confidence in me as well."

    So you already know the answer but you don't like it and want to stick your nose where it does not belong anyway.

    If I were your husband and you breached my confidences, let alone interfered in my friendships like you seem determined to do, I would have no faith in your ability to exercise any discretion. If you tell on your husbands friend you might as well start looking for a new husband too, as you can count on a decline in your marital communication as your husband seeks both a new confident to talk to and a new friend to replace the one you torpedoed.
  50. The Wight from Canada writes: Sean L.

    "So you already know the answer but you don't like it and want to stick your nose where it does not belong anyway."

    That is such a crock.

    As has been said before, this notion of "keeping your nose where it belongs" is precisely what enabled child and spousal abuse to circulate behind closed doors for centuries. If there is even the potential of physical risk (can YOU verify that the cheater is having protected sex?) then you have an obligation to speak out. Can she die, unknowingly, from his activities? Sure can. If so, then why is it treated any differently than abuse?
  51. N B from Canada writes: Gord Lewis, I see, so you know for a fact they are actually still intimate. No, no, no judgement from you at all.
  52. Jebediah Nikelby from Canada writes: Mind your own business you interfering self-righteous sneak. If I were your husband; actually; I'd never be your husband! Poor guy! Where do people like you slither from, seriously! Is your life so bland and boring that you see a need to buttinsky in to your husband's friend's business. Looooosser!
  53. Joe V from Canada writes: "but my husband would lose confidence in me as well"

    Hey lady, I hate to break it to you, but if that is the case, your husband is being unfaithful as well. Are you sure it is his friend that you should be worrying about?
  54. B Johnson from Somewhere, Canada writes: Discuss it with your husband. Tell him it's weighing on you and you have to act one way or the other. I don't know, maybe it's your husband who is confessing his conscience to you inadvertently.

    My X cheated on me at every turn. I was a young mother of two young children, working full time, and trying desperately to be Little Miss Suzie Homemaker. One day 3 of my girlfriends came for coffee and spilled the beans. It seems everyone knew except me. I can't even begin to describe the humiliation I felt as tears streamed down my face.

    This wasn't the first time my husband cheated. I actually caught him red handed (in our home no less) and left him. Six months later we reunited and I became pregnant with our 2nd child (my son).
    I thought surely, after all the turmoil we had been through, he wouldn't dare cheat on me again. I was wrong. This time he was dating strippers who came through our small town and leaving me, the wife and mother of his 2 children wide open to disease and public humiliation.

    Long story short. We divorced. He had a nervous breakdown and was later diagnosed with a bi-polar disorder and extreme narcissism. I moved on and have remarried to a wonderful man who wouldn't dream of being unfaithful and adores the ground I walk on. We have three things in common .... Love, Respect, and Trust for one another.

    I think you and your husband should approach your husband's friend and offer him the opportunity to be present when you tell his wife. Hopefully before she becomes impregnated again. I would also suggest to the betrayed wife that she see a doctor ASAP and get tests done for STD's or worse.
  55. Joe V from Canada writes: The only real conclusion that you can come to after reading these comments is that as statistics continuously show, most Canadians are unfaithful. Male posters in particular have come up with elaborate ways of justifying their deception and complete void of moral integrity. (Not for wanting extramarital sex, but for lying to their spouses about their activities). But no matter what anyone says, the wife has a right to know what is going on, and you may well be the only person capable of telling her.

    It doesn't matter what anyone else says, telling her is still the right thing to do.
  56. brokeback mountain from Canada writes: gosh, they have an open relationship, so keep your mouth shut, its none of your biz, unless you wanna have a 3 or 4 some with them..
  57. Joe V from Canada writes: "they have an open relationship, so keep your mouth shut, its none of your biz"

    If they have an open relationship, then there is nothing to lose by anonymously informing the wife.
  58. Albin Forone from Canada writes: Most of the above comments are framed within an existing social convention. I have to wonder if we could learn from Maslow's famous pyramid of the hierarchy of needs (google) in which the pre-social elements are: "breathing, food, water, sleep, homeostasis, sex, and excretion." On experience, physical sex drive may be contingent after a couple of days without sleep, food, water, etc., but one does want it before worrying about those second level "security" concerns personal or familial relations. So maybe we should just be allowed to demand to feel free to obtain sex at Loblaws, Tim Hortons, or Holiday Inn, and move on to serious personal relationships from there.
  59. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Lots of interesting posts - on a topic that hits bad for most of us, one way or another. I'm glad that most people here, whether wives, husbands, family, friends, or ex-all-of-the-above, favor honesty and integrity. I've been on the receiving end of lies, a few times, including from my ex-husband, and I didn't like it. Not when it comes to fidelity. I wouldn't say it's a 'male' or 'female' thing - clearly most men don't like it either. (who would? unless both are lying, and/or don't care - in which case, why the heck be a couple? or friends?)

    My litmus, gutmus test has always been, would I want someone, even someone I know only in passing, who accidentally or otherwise knows more about my life than I do, to let me know? You bet I would. As other posters have said, it's called controlling my own destiny, armed with facts. Faith and trust are beautiful. Essential, even. Facts are just as important.
  60. aging oldtool from Canada writes: Simply don't say a word. Talk to your husband, tell him you are uncomfortable with the information and insist he not use you as a sounding board on it again.

    If your husband persists suggest he'd be a better friend for the other fellow if he stopped and talked to him about the issue, but don't force the point..

    That conversation doesn't have to be either or as some suggest, but clear enough that he knows your feelings and preferences.

    More than likely that's the last you'll hear about it. That will take away any moral sense you may have to act based on what your husband might otherwise tell you.

    But once again, stay out of it entirely. Whatever you do, don't do as one poster says and e-mail her anonymously.

    That would be repulsive, sneaky, unethical and make you feel like a jerk later.

    If you do anything and I advise you not to do anything in this case, you ought to be prepared to do it face to face rather than passing the details down the line.

    That's what friends do.
  61. Joe V from Canada writes: "That would be repulsive, sneaky, unethical and make you feel like a jerk later."

    The really unethical thing to do is to hide information from the wife that she deserves to know. The sneaky thing to do is to pretend that you don't know about it. And the jerk thing to do is allow more children to be brought into the world to parents with a dishonest relationship.

    "That's what friends do."
    A friend of the husband at the expense of the wife, eh?
  62. strider 643 from City of Suffering, Canada writes:
    MInd your own business! You are a classic passive-aggressive over-functioner who loves to entertain self-created classic psycho-neurotic triangulation dramas.

    The fact you even ask such a question poignantly belies your unfortunate lack of self-awareness and maturity. I feel sorry for you since you are the author of your suffering.

    But then that's true of us all. LIfe is suffering.
  63. Matthew Zadow from Bruxelles, Belgium writes: Dear Catch-22,

    The issue seems to be confused here by a lot of excessively emotional reactions.

    The primary problem is with the adulterous husband's behaviour, and it is probably true that he needs to be challenged about the validity of his behaviour. The person who needs to challenge him is the person he confided in, in this case your husband.

    Marriages aren't fairy tales or soap operas, they are a team sport, where problems are solved together. When the adulterous husband confided in your husband, he made it an issue for your "team", and so you can and should discuss this with your husband so that he feels supported and can help decide how to best support his friend.

    Does the wife need to know? Maybe; that's a problem for their "team", not yours. The person to focus on here is your husband, and if necessary, support him as he tried to do right by his adulterous friend. That might mean that your husband talks to him alone, or the two of you have a meeting with him together; that's for the two of you to decide.

    You might find upon discussion with the adulterer that there is more to the story than you know. If his wife needs to be told, it's her husband's job; don't do his hard emotional work for him.
  64. Katherine R from Canada writes: I would definitely want to know, for many of the reasons mentioned above. If they are in an 'open' relationship, then there is nothing to lose by talking to her. Sexually transmitted disease is no joke and can not be treated lightly - spouses who have affairs and infect their spouse with HIV are increasingly charged with manslaughter or worse. If the guy was beating up his wife I'm pretty sure everyone would report him. However, HIV and Hep C are far worse than getting beaten and can take decades off the wife's life and cost a fortune to treat.

    If they are in an open relationship, then I assume they are both taking the necessary precautions and are ok with the risks. But come on, the wife is trying to have another baby - she should have the chance to have all the information before she makes that big decision.

    What the heck is the writer's husband doing being friends with this creep? It's cause for concern if that is the company he keeps...
  65. The Wight from Canada writes: Matthew Zadow:

    "If his wife needs to be told, it's her husband's job; don't do his hard emotional work for him."

    Until he proves that he is unwilling and unable to do it ... at which point, you do it for him so that the wife can be treated the way all humans deserve to be treated.

    I'm 100% OK with confronting the cheater and putting it on the line. You tell, or I do.
  66. Dave LeBlanc from Canada writes: The wife probably knows because her husband confided in her. Chances are, if he was a cheater himself, he'd never mention anything about infidelity to her. Furthermore, if she takes confidential information her husband shares with her and then acts on it (tells the other wife), she'll probably ruin her husband's friendship and his trust into confiding in her again in the future. In the end, she'll do less damage for everyone involved if she keeps quiet.
  67. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: Matthew from Belgium -- the adulterer didn't so much "confide" in his buddy as brag about his philandering, again and again. And I'm sure this particular buddy isn't the only one who's heard about the cheater's exploits. Confronting someone who's been getting away with what amounts to murder on a marriage will only cause him to become defensive and, most likely, to deny, deny, deny the charges. Though I don't dispute that he needs help to heal the root cause of his wayward ways, he's not the one who's the object of concern here. The wife is. I'd bet my personal fortune that the cheater would NEVER 'fess up himself (unless under extreme duress, and then admitting only as much as he thinks the wife might already know), barring an act of God. Expecting him to do so is unrealistic. Why should he? He's been having his cake and eating it, too, since the outset of their relationship. As far as he's concerned, his system works, and all is right with the world. I've known many men like that. Confrontation, discussions, entreaties, dispassionate discourse all sound good in theory, but in practise the only method that works is by-passing the culprit and going straight to the victim with the information, and letting her handle it in her way and her time.
  68. Wendy Powell from Guelph, Canada writes: Being the wife in such a situation, I would say that it is beneficial to tell her if you know her directly. I would not interfer with someone that you do not know. She may already know and has decided to tolerate it. A woman is often kept in the dark by the people that know her and lied to by her husband. The question you must ask yourself is how often your husband and his friend double date.
  69. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: Wendy Powell -- You may be right about the cheater's wife already knowing what her husband has been up to, but I have to wonder how many women would consciously and sustainedly choose to "tolerate" their husband's infidelity, knowing that the betrayal is on so many more levels than merely the physical. I've had many discussions with cheating husbands/boyfriends, and their total lack of respect when they speak of their partners to a third party "in confidence" is eye-opening to say the least. Almost right across the board, the cheaters deride their partner's body, intellect, ability as a mother, ability as a sex partner, ability as an earner, the way they dress, their lack of athletic prowess, their relatives and friends -- the list goes on. Listening to these men, I often wonder what could possibly have incited them to marry such nagging, all-round loser women in the first place, their descriptions of them are so negative. If, as you propose, some women choose to tolerate their husband's philandering, I wonder if they do so aware that their husband is also likely betraying them in so many other ways, too.
  70. Hydrogen Bob from Toronto, Canada writes: I had a friend who I strongly suspected was cheating on his wife. His wife was a wonderful person and mother, and my wife liked her too. I never confronted my friend, but over time our friendship suffered. When he divorced and I met his new girlfriend who talked endlessly and explicity about their great relationship, the math confirmed my suspicions. We love our friends with all their faults. But if they partake in behaviour we find repugnant and are uncomfortable with their deceptions, it is only natural that the friendship will suffer. I would never expose a cheating friend, but I would likely reduce my social interactions with them. Cheating has a huge impact beyond the spouse; children, family and friends all suffer too. Fidelity is a practical virtue as much as it is a moral one.
  71. whatevah D from Canada writes: The Wight from Canada writes: I was in this exact situation a few years back.

    An entire friendship group knew that a specific husband was cheating with a co-worker. We all hung out and everyone played nicey nicey so that the wife never found out about the cheating. We knew her through the husband, so she wasn't tight with us, but it wasn't like she was a stranger.

    At some point, I got sick of the duplicity and lying - on EVERYONE'S part - and just told her. She was mad at me, at first, but after a few months when the divorce was done, she took me for coffee and thanked me for being the ONLY HONEST PERSON IN THE ROOM. She walked away from all those friendships precisely because everyone chose expediency over the right course of action.

    I agree. I would be upset if my friends didn't tell me. They wouldn't be friends for long.
  72. Wendy P. from Guelph, Canada writes: I agree with you Charlotte, I'm divorced. However, you must understand that many women have religious obligations, fiscal dependency or simply an inability to leave the marriage. She may be glad that he is out of the home as much as he is.
  73. Charlotte Creamer from Halifax, Canada writes: Wendy -- I'm not saying that the wife in this case should necessarily leave the husband, simply that she should be made aware of his cheating, and also be aware that his betrayal of her is occuring on so many levels, not just the physical one. If, in another instance, a woman is fully cognizant of her husband's cheating and tolerates it for whatever reason, then that's her decision, and I wouldn't interfere with it.
  74. Richard Hawk from Canada writes: I actually say stay out of it - UNLESS - you know the woman reasonably well personally. If you don't know her at all I wouldn't tell. The reason I advocate secrecy here is because her husband confided in her and expects her not to tell. so at the very least if you're going to tell, you have to tell your husband first that you plan to do so.

    Because quite possibly you telling will result in your husband's friendship being destroyed, which isn't fair if he isn't at least warned first.

    It's interesting that my first gut was definitely to say don't tell, it's none of your business, maybe she already knows, I wouldn't want to know, etc. But after reading all the comments now I'm a little unsure about is the right thing to do. I see both sides.
  75. Give Peas A Chance from Tim Buck-tooth, Canada writes: To the woman who is debating whether or not to tell her husband's philandering friend's wife about the philandering -- DO IT! If she already knows, then it's no big deal. But if she doesn't, she needs to know, even if she doesn't act on it. Years ago, when I was young and foolish (as opposed to old and foolish, I guess, as I am now), I fell what I thought was hopelessly in love with an older man. For the first six months of our relationship, I was constantly cornered in club and restaurant washrooms by women who regaled me with horror stories about what a cheat my new True Love was. I listened politely to each and every one of them, but I didn't believe a word they said. I would tell them smugly: "He's changed", and even convinced myself that was true. After a while, women stopped cornering me and let me go my way. However, as the months turned to years, and the philandering evidence against my True Love grew so undeniable that my rose-colored glasses started to morph into red for rage and embarrassment, I clung to the hope that my True Love, if not necessarily True, was at least still my Love, and so my response to his "indescretions" (as he called them) was "He'll change". Years passed, and despite all his vows and promises, he didn't change, and the infidelities piled up along with a few garden-variety STDs. Finally, I'd had enough of the dashed hopes, the constant heartache and the trips to the doctor's, and I decided to leave him for good. I think back now at all those women (virtual strangers, but well-meaning) who tried to get through to me, and I wish I'd listened to them. I also wish that they'd kept pestering me, and in retrospect I have to wonder at the people who knew what he was up to but kept quiet. And there were a lot of people who knew, as I found out afterwards. So, to the lady mulling over whether or not to tell the wife, I say again, loud and clear -- DO IT! Like me, it may take years for it to sink in with her, but it's the right thing to do.
  76. MR. oz from Canada writes:
    Mind your own business woman and watch your own husband, or are you yourself interrested in your friends husband and therefore a little jealous?
  77. An Opinion from Canada writes: It is rather sad that some of the commenters here condone silence when the lives of TWO innocent lives at stake (that of the wife and of the child), not to mention a potential THIRD one (the intended pregnancy). Not only morally is it wrong, but it is unconscionable from a public health perspective (as pointed out by another poster).

    Seems to me the philandering husband is stuck in inertia and has chosen to off-load his guilt to his friend. The questioner's husband is confiding in his wife because he also knows that what his friend is doing is wrong and is off-loading to his wife. Otherwise why would he blab to his wife?

    I suggest having a heart-to-heart with your husband and deciding on a course of action together which may include telling the poor unfortunate wife (as from this article, it is not clear whether using the prostitute was a first and only time or an ongoing thing.) It's then her decision on how to deal with the information. Perhaps she knows, perhaps she doesn't. But if she doesn't, she will thank you in the end. With friends like this fellow, who needs enemies?

    And it's just plain WRONG to bring another child into this unfortunate doomed union.
  78. H M from Canada writes: I don't think I would stand by silently while somebody, ANYBODY, was abusing their spouse. Exposing her to potential STDs is a form of abuse all by itself.

    And I woul dbe very concerned about your husband being friends with somebody who openly admits to that sort of behaviour.
  79. Duane McMullen from Canada writes: A key issue that has not yet come out in the discussion is the quality of evidence. All we really know is that the wife believes her husband thinks that one of his acquaintances is cheating. In court, that would be hearsay and wouldn’t even rate. Is that a firm enough basis to seek out a total stranger and tell them that their spouse is being unfaithful? If the allegation is false, would you not actually have become the source of real harm? A fragile marriage, one that could evolve into a strong, enduring marriage or disintegrate completely, could be pushed into disintegration by a plausible sounding but false story of infidelity by one partner. The potential for false information to cause harm is so obvious that it is standard plot material for TV dramas and fiction. But in this context, the brave hero who passes on the ‘news’ tends instead to come across as an evil villain. In my own experience, all too many social groups are bubbling cauldrons of gossip and intrigue. Most of it well meaning, or at least somehow justified in some twisted way as well meaning, but a great deal of it self-serving. The gossip often springs from a grain of truth, but even the most anodyne stories routinely veer in some significant way from the facts. Victims tend to be drawn in particular from those who don’t necessarily quite fit in. The quality of the evidence is too weak to justify the listening wife’s passing on the information. She should either take the low energy path of doing nothing, or invest her time, energy and sweat on improving the quality of the evidence before she acts upon it.
  80. Interested observer #1 from Canada writes: Duane McMullen spoken like a true lawyer! Katherine R from Canada nailed it. IMHO the health concerns in this day and age are serious enough to warrant telling her. Especially in light of the fact that they want to have another child. C'mon people, be realistic. Can anyone HONESTLY say that they don't care who their partner is having sex with? It works both ways. Does any man want to know his wife was with a male escort? Does any wife want to know her husband was with a prostitute. Would you not have concerns about your own health? Does anyone really want to be the one being screwed around on? Not likely. But I think we do owe those like this woman at the very least the information to make the decision that is right for them, and the control of their life. If it were me, I would want to know. I also agree with all the posters who are questioning the husband's friendship with the philanderer...I'd seriously question that one, especially if he was doing nothing about it. Living vicariously perhaps?
  81. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: A housemate enjoyed a fiance, girl friends, a mistress and one night stands. It happened that one of those, S, took it upon herself to find as many girls as possible with whom X enjoyed sexual relations. She confronted them to warn what X was really like. While it annoyed X to squirm, the fiance was stirred but not shaken. The mistress laughed. More than a couple girls thought S was nuts. The worst of it was, a friend had tipped off S as a practical joke on X, and the original lead was totally bogus.

    STFU.
  82. Control_Alt Delete from Toronto, Canada writes: You might not be able to tell the wife but I would certainly consider the collusion of my husband if I were you. My husband's best friend cheated on his wife for over ten years and I could never understand how my husband could condone this -- especially given that he was the godfather of their two children. Come to learn -- mine was cheating on me too. In fact, they often "hooked up" together.
  83. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: Control_Alt Delete - live and learn, I guess. Seems to be a learned nature of dishonesty - that some people can actually live a lie, for years. Unfaithful partners, unfaithful godparents, gays, and others, living every day like a lie - I don't know how they do it, I can't imagine living like that. Unfaithful people choosing to live a lie. And gays and lesbians being forced to.
  84. rifka zawajor from toronto, Canada writes: I think you should first let your husband know that you would like to tell the wife and find out what he has to say. Who would want to have a spouse cheating on them? I think any married woman would want to know. It is very sad when groups of people band together knowing something wrong is taking place and nobody steps up to do anything about it.
  85. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: You have an obligation to talk to your husband first and let him know that this isn't sitting well with you. You can't blindside your own partner like that without first talking to him and giving him the chance to talk it out with you what to do about this and working that out together. You'll find out alot about your own husband this way. Be prepared though for collateral damage in your own relationship because you'll be forcing your husband to be party to action in some way that he may not be at all interested in taking and rightly or wrongly, he may not be too pleased with you for that. Your husband needs a heads up at the least. This may be someone he can't easily disengage himself from - someone he works with or will impact other friendships they share mutually and may cause him a great deal of collateral grief - and you'll put him in the middle between both of you. Talk it out with your husband first. It will at least reduce the collateral damage and you may just be able to work something out that sits well with both of you.
  86. Trish Taylor from Canada writes: Katherine R: "Sexually transmitted disease is no joke and can not be treated lightly - spouses who have affairs and infect their spouse with HIV are increasingly charged with manslaughter or worse. If the guy was beating up his wife I'm pretty sure everyone would report him. However, HIV and Hep C are far worse than getting beaten and can take decades off the wife's life and cost a fortune to treat."

    An important side note: Hep C is not an STD, sexually transmitted disease. It is a blood to bloodstream transmitted disease. The sexual risk with Hep C is only if there is tearing or open wounds allowing for blood to bloodstream transmission therefore rougher sex or sex during menstrual period is a risk. In monogamous couples where one has Hep C, transmission has been shown to be 5% or less and it's thought that some of this percentage is in couples who were not always aware of the Hep C and shared other risk factors, such as razors or needles. Monogamous couples are not considered to require protection during sex when one of them has Hep C.

    Hep C and HIV are very different from each other, both in life expectancy and treatment. They are not the same thing.
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