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Forces paid for friendly-fire deaths, files show

OMAR EL AKKAD

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 7:59 AM EDT 28/04/08

Afghan families got up to $9,000 each for losing a family member – but without any admission of liability from Canada ...Read the full article

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  1. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Our tax dollars at work.
  2. The Skipper from Canada writes: Isn't this a sweet story !
    I'll take a John Deere 2305 Tractor with a bucket loader, mower deck etc.,
  3. snow lander from Edmonton, Canada writes: if you can't win over hearts and minds i guess it is ok to try and purchase them.
  4. Old Edmonton Man from Edmonton, Canada writes: Is that sweet !!! Be able to pay for your live targets. This is how we are winning the Afghan war. This is typical west culture. Money talks and walks.
  5. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: Absolutely ridiculous.
  6. B Johnson from Somewhere, Canada writes: "rules of engagement" escalation, where soldiers fired warning shots that then ricocheted and hit civilians.

    No wonder Hillier retired. Before it all hit the fan.
    This is patently ridiculous.

    WTH are we doing there anyway? Is this nothing but a make work project? I'm disgusted.
  7. Slippery Slope from Canada writes: Oops. Sorry about that. Here's a bag of loonies.
  8. wayne sharp from Canada writes: Here I thought life was priceless so it's 9000 dollars, Osama could have just sent lets see 3000 dead times 9000= 27million and no war! hell we could have paid this our selves and saved a bundle WOW! ;)
  9. Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: How does the $9,000 paid to the family of an Afghan killed compare to the cost of killing that person in the first place? Maybe accountants in the Ministry have spreadsheet programs to figure that out. It would be informative to compare the value of a life to the cost of snuffing that life.
  10. Kevin Desmoulin from Toronto, Canada writes: Just think when the money runs out, not good.
  11. Andrea Timmons from Kingston Ontario, Canada writes: Looks like the Canadian government is buying into the same corrupt activities in Afghanistan which they claim they're there to get rid of!
    The Canadian government clearly shows how little it values the lives of the Afghanistan people by providing 'token' fees for accidentally killing them!
    There's something fishy here! Were those 'friendly fire' deaths investigated & cleared as accidental or were they really accidental?
    Smells like a cover up, something the current government excels at!
  12. ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada writes: How many hundreds of Afghans have our military forces killed in their own country? How many tens of Afghan civilians have we killed?

    If they kill an average of say 30 people every month, that would be roughly one a day. Is that what over $3 million a day in wasted Canadian taxpayer money is funding?

    So averaged out, every 10 days we needlessly lose one Canadian life, waste over $30 million in Canadian taxpayer money, terminate 10 other human lives, and create 10 more insurgents sworn to avenge their deaths?

    End our participation in this war. We have no business being there.
  13. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: I don't see the Taliban compensating for the 100 or so civilians they're blowing up everyday.
  14. Strong North from Canada writes: $9000=a life? where is the human rights's activists??
  15. Jamie Cartwright from Toronto, Canada writes: "Strong North"
    Forget about the human right's activists,
    Where is an English teacher when you need one?

    Also 9k isnt too bad.. waaay more than Africans get.
  16. Johann Decruyff from *La Paz, Bolivia writes: obviously most people posting on here have no idea how other cultures operate in circumstances of accidental death. in some countries/cultures/tribes monetary compensation is fully compatible with the morals of those societies. to put it simply, handing over cash or the equivalent, is merely another way of accepting responsibility for the act and apologizing. the canadian government could have chose to pay 0$ and the same people complaining above would whine about that. we did the right thing under the circumstances.
  17. Joe V from Canada writes: Redacted? Man, what a joke it has all become. I mean, payments to the deceased are obviously top secret transactions, and revealing them would be a national security threat, what? Maybe next they'll redact military toilet paper purchases. Allowing terrorists to know your toilet paper source might be too much of a national security threat for our Canadian military.
  18. ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada writes: Johann, I believe they also happen to have a culture of avenging the death of relative or fellow tribesman.

    Steve from Western Canada, very good demonization of the Taliban. At 100 civilians a day, that's 36,500 civilians a year.

    Only problem is that the UN estimated that around 1,500 civilians were killed in all of 2007 as a result of the conflict, and as many as half of those were killed by US-led, pro-government forces.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/11/afghanistan.unitednations

    So you only completely exaggerated by a small factor of about 50.

    "A count by the United Nations and an umbrella organisation of Afghan and international aid groups shows the number of civilians killed by international forces was slightly greater than the number killed by insurgents in the first half of the year."

    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world/story/0,,2115846,00.html

    In other words, the US-led occupation forces have been killing roughly as many innocent civilians as the insurgents have - or more.
  19. Melquiades Sodero from Montreal, Canada writes: "When in Rome, do as Romans do"

    Paying off the families of those killed--either intentionally or unintentionally--is actually permitted under Islamic and tribal laws in Afghanistan. If the families of those killed accept this payment, they willingly (under Sharia law) drop all accusations and attempts to seek punishment against the perpetrators. Look it up.
  20. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada writes: How many, who really knows? what we do know that billions of money is being made by government friendly contractors and human life coupled with little or no long term care for our soldiers and wounded has been put into place. Support the troops sadly means only support when they are healthy and killing people. 36 non reported Canadian suicides and another 21 dead at home for unknown reasons.......PTSD, #'s going through the roof, and many of our soldiers can not find employment (reserve) because who to-day hires ex-soldiers who just might have mental problems in the work place. And Stevie wants Canada in Afghanistan well beyond 2011, Remember Hillier said 25 years at least! Most recent update: July 16, 2007. At least 832,962 people have been killed, and 1,590,895 seriously injured in Afghanistan and Iraq
  21. globefan Eh from Canada writes: There is no cultural context on this story...it is traditional to pay blood money in countries like Saudi, the UAE and Afghanistan, as examples.

    Does anyone ever wonder about what it must be like to be a widow in a country like Afghanistan with a patriarchal society.
  22. Reg Anderson from Canada writes: So this is our new Canada? I think I'd rather have the old one back.
  23. Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: Johann Decruyff from *La Paz, Bolivia writes: obviously most people posting on here have no idea how other cultures operate in circumstances of accidental death. in some countries/cultures/tribes monetary compensation is fully compatible with the morals of those societies.

    The problem is that it's not compatible with the morals of our society, and these are our troops.
  24. Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: Can you pay in advance, then pick out someone to kill?
  25. siren call from Canada writes: Melquiades Sodero, global fan and others are correct.

    In tribal societies a deliberate death must always be avenged. If Canadian solders accidentally kill an Afghan, traditionally he or his family are honour bound to seek revenge. Sometimes 1 for 1, sometimes 10 for 1.

    If "payment" (money, goats, etc) is accepted by Afghans as an appropriate apology, it will save the Afghan from obligatory retribution and save our soldiers lives.

    I believe that Canada payed the family of the young man murdered in Somalia many camels.
  26. siren call from Canada writes: Mahatma Gandhi writes:
    The problem is that it's not compatible with the morals of our society, and these are our troops.
    ...............................

    Oh, I don't know.

    How much life insurance do you have? Your wife? What will your policy pay out?

    What kind of compensation has been negotiated by the Canadian military for the death of a soldier, as payed to his/her spouse?
  27. siren call from Canada writes: Mahatma Gandhi -- though, I have read that American soldiers in Iraq have trouble with the awarding of money for Iraqis killed. The article I read interviewed soldiers who saw it as rewarding the families of people who had been trying to kill them

    I wonder how our soldiers perceive the transaction.
  28. siren call from Canada writes: Badges? We don't need no stinking badges from Canada writes: Can you pay in advance, then pick out someone to kill?
    ................................

    No. It's highly unlikely that your apology, before the killing, would be perceived by relatives as sincere.
  29. Johann Decruyff from *La Paz, Bolivia writes: "Mahatma Gandhi from Calgary, Canada writes: Johann Decruyff from *La Paz, Bolivia writes: obviously most people posting on here have no idea how other cultures operate in circumstances of accidental death."

    The problem is that it's not compatible with the morals of our society, and these are our troops.">>>>>>>>>

    our morals are irrelevant in this case. there has been many a post on here claiming that for every innocent afghan killed by NATO, we created 10 taliban recruits. if this kind of compensation to families heads that off, then we are indeed doing the right thing. even human rights watch (and i assume other rights groups) agrees with what the military is doing, although you may not.
  30. ryan jensen from hamilton, Canada writes: @ everyone who posted

    I would like to congratulate the respondants to this article.

    29 posts and only one, (you know who you are, ImaCanadian) who somehow found a way to mention America, US, US war.

    Here's hoping that we Canadians can stay focused on our own actions and hold sensible debate concerning the responsibilities brought with/through those actions.

    I truly am pleasantly surprised regarding these posts. The old "don't blame me, blame society", "its not my fault I was just following American orders", "I refuse to be held accountable for my own actions given the fact that I am a young offender (age 17 yrs 10mths) scripted excuses work but it is the course of cowards. (and children)
  31. ryan jensen from hamilton, Canada writes: @ Badges, we dont need no...

    Some comments are so politically incorrect that they can be construed as nothing other than F***ing Hilarious.

    I will indeed laugh all day and well into the next because of you. Thanks
  32. Mrs. Whiggins from Canada writes: No wonder the Government doesn't want to talk about the detainees...

    What's the price for non-accidental? Does anybody know?
  33. Johann Decruyff from *La Paz, Bolivia writes: david bakody, you should know enough to provide a source for those casualty numbers you gave up above. its always good to know WHO is doing the counting, how they're doing it, and what their agenda might be in getting that information out.
  34. Mrs. Whiggins from Canada writes: What do Canadian parents of our troops get when our children kill themselves in the face of such blatant death-for-money schemes?

    Is there a suicide payout funded by the Canadian taxpayer?
  35. jamie yavis from Canada writes: Funny I didn't see any of that in the Conservative Party's Manley Report on Afghanistan ... it must not have happened!
  36. ryan jensen from hamilton, Canada writes: @ ImaCanadian

    There comes a time when a person grows up or shuts up.

    You sir choose to excercise the same tactic as cowards and children. The ability to point blame towards another is seldom tolerated when utilized by children and should certainly not be tolerated by people like you.

    Most all of us have co-workers who have more excuses than ethics. When these co-"workers" surreptitiously lay blame at the feet of others they are tolerated but most certainly not respected. Since our toddler years we are encouraged by peers, authorities, and idols to "own up to your responsibilities".

    Will you sir,ever accept blame? Likely not. As your posts show, you are too preoccupied by your anti-American zeal too accept blame. As I stated at the beginning of my post, there comes a time when one either grows up or shuts up. Choice is yours. As a Canadian heres hoping you make the correct choice.
  37. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: No wonder the Canadian Armed Forces have low morale. The US sets up brothels for their troops. All ours get is this goat!
  38. R L from Canada writes: Ugh.

    What happened to Canada, the one admired for promoting peace & dialogue over bloodshed?

    This is a SHAMEFUL period for this country.
  39. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Ryan Jensen, re: your last posting addressed to IamaCanadian. Could you please clarify what the hell it is you are talking about?
  40. ryan jensen from hamilton, Canada writes: @ Paul Thompson

    read my first post.
  41. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Hush money for murder IS an admission of liability (i.e.guilt).
  42. Carl Hansen from Canada writes: I think it's good that we pay the families of those killed.
  43. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: ImaCANADIAN ! from Canada, wow, did you ever miss my point completely. My point is that the Taliban are killing far more civilians and they aren't compensating at all. In fact, they use it as a tactic of intimidation. Are you really so dumb to believe ever piece of propaganda crap that the UN, or any other group, puts out with regards to death tolls? They don't have statisticians running around Aghanistan keeping count like it's some video game. Half the time they don't even know if I person was maybe an insurgent. This is not a black and white battle field, in fact it's exceptionally grey. Stats are the most useless form of data since they can be arranged to say whatever you want them too. They will only release counts that they find beneficial to their cause and that will be done by both sides. It's a well known fact that the Taliban are killing far more civilians than friendly fire is because it's an intimidation tactic they use to get young people to "join" their cause. At least we're compensating for our mistakes. $9000 is alot in their economy and current situation, a heck of alot. That was the point of my post which seemed to have zipped so far and so fast over your noodle. Start attempting to use some common sense, having an understanding of what someone is saying in their post and an understanding that all your links to data is as useless as last decades newspaper. No one knows the numbers since no ones keeping track.
  44. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: "Up to $9000"

    Adult Male, working.............9,000
    Adult Male, unemployed......5,000
    Female................................2,500
    12 - 14yr old.......................1,000
    2 - 11 yr old.......................... 500
    Baby........................................25
  45. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Steve . from Western Canada said:

    "It's a well known fact that the Taliban are killing far more civilians than friendly fire..."

    Thats a lie.

    "2007 is shaping up to be even worse. The most alarming point: As of July, more civilians had died as a result of NATO, U.S. and Afghan government firepower than had died due to the Taliban. According to U.N. figures, 314 civilians were killed by international and Afghan government forces in the first six months of this year, while 279 civilians were killed by the insurgents."
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/16/AR2007111601203.html
  46. ryan jensen from hamilton, Canada writes: @ Paul Thompson At the time of my first posting there were only 29 posts. Of those 29 posts only 1 had made a reference to "US led pro-government forces" or "US led occupation forces. Maybe I got it all wrong. Maybe Canada is a nation of sellouts who will cater to Bush-Cheney. But it seems to me that if you asked all 33 million of us we would to a person, deny being a Bush-Cheneys sycophant. Now if not one person in this country sold out our principles, then clearly our actions are our own. As such we need to accept our actions as our own. Of course many will say that some obviously sold our principles to be a Bush-Cheney sycophant. many will say that sycophant is Mr Harper. Or as others like to refer to him as Bush's lapdog. Be realistic. No human would choose to be anothers lap dog. Sycophants (a**kissers) do exist. But whether we agree with Mr Harper or not lets at least acknowledge that the choice was his. Even if the majority of this nation do not agree with Mr Harpers decision concerning troops in Afghanistan, we should still accept it as a Canadian act, not an act of a bunch of American slave dogs. I am tired of people painting our nation as being unable to decide for themselves. I am tired of people painting our nation as not being responsible for their actions. i am tired of people who say Canada was forced into Afghanistan. Because by the same line of thought you would have to argue that we are an American pawn who was forced into Iraq. We are not Americas lap dog. We were not forced into the war. And the consequences, moral, economic, spiritual, and physical are ours to bear.
  47. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands, your just another idiot believing every single word that is fed to him by the press. Grow up and do something useful in life. They're called "raids" and they are carried out every night by the Taliban. They're also murdering anyone who was seen attempting to join the army or the police. You can't possibly be as dumb as your coming across to be.
  48. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: Steve . from Western Canada:

    Where are your statistics?

    Put up or shut up, fool.
  49. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands, prove yours! Prove any of them. That's my point. None of these statistics can be proven. You are as dumb as your coming across.
  50. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Ok thanks for the clarification Ryan Jensen, I can't find much there I disagree with. We may not be and I hope we never are the USA's lapdog, though many (they know who they are) would want it that way.
  51. James MacDonald from Edmonton, Canada writes: $9,000 per head? WOW !!!
  52. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: You guys sit around hand picking articles that agree with your way of thinking. There are articles out there that coincide with everyones way of thinking. That should be the first tip off that nobody really knows the truth. The simple fact that, with regards to body counts and whether they are insurgent or civilian, you believe any of the junk written just tells me that you have no clue whatsoever of what's going on. It amazes me that you swallow this BS your fed as well. Also take into account that your numbers contradict every thing published in the last 3 months. This should tip you off to that fact that it's fantasy. Your sitting their quoting numbers that are made up to benefit a political agenda.
  53. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: You guys have a nice time swallowing your political fantasy statistics. Really, since you seem to have all the answers, you should get up off your duffs and join the military. At least then you'd be doing something useful with your lives other than spouting off fantasy statistics.
  54. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: "As of June 23, the Associated Press counted 381 civilian deaths in 2007, 203 of which resulted from U.S. and NATO operations.24 The Agency Coordinating Body for Afghan Relief reported that pro-government forces were responsible for 230 civilian deaths in 2007.25 On July 3, the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reported Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission figures for 2007: over 270 civilian deaths caused by international military operations out of a total of at least 540.26 A July 1 AP report cited a UN count of 593 total civilian deaths in 2007, 314 of which were caused by international or Afghan military action.27 "
    http://www.counterpunch.org/szabo07202007.html

    24. Fisnik Abrashi, AP reporter. (2007) Telephone conversation with Elise Szabo, June 25, 2007.

    25. "Protecting Afghan Civilians: Statement on the Conduct of Military Operations." Agency Coordinating Body for Afghan Relief, June 19, 2007.

    26. "Afghanistan: Civilians complain about impact of fighting on their lives," Integrated Regional Information Networks, UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, July 3, 2007.

    27. "Afghan Violence Numbers," Guardian Unlimited, July 1, 2007.
  55. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands, OK, you can quote others writings. Now can you prove the Stats?
  56. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands, that's not prove. How do you know that what they wrote is correct? Prove your Stats!
  57. Steve . from Western Canada, Canada writes: The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands, I'll make this easy. You can't so stop trying. Believe whatever garbage you want too. I'll believe my sources.
  58. The NeoCynic from Cayman Islands writes: "US 'ashamed' of Afghan civilian deaths

    A US commander has apologised and made $US2,000 payments to family members of 19 Afghans killed and 50 injured by US Marines in an incident more than two months ago.

    Brigade commander Colonel John Nicholson says the March 4 incident in Nangarhar province is still under investigation but the military decided to make the payments as a gesture of condolence. "
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1917944.htm

    vs our $9000.00??

    Hello, has anyone in our military noticed the exchange rate lately?

    Or do the Americans get a discount on bulk murder?
  59. Mrs. Whiggins from Canada writes: And still, the Harper Conservatives are trying to make light of the Apology to First Nation people; still trying to cover up the mass graves. Would rather pay a foreign people for losses than Stand Up for Canada.

    Sad.
  60. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes:
    On a single day in the summer of 2006, the Canadian Forces were involved in at least half a dozen instances of "friendly fire" that left two Afghans dead and four injured. The Forces ended up paying about $35,000 in compensation, even though it admitted no liability for the deaths.

    Ah, the business of war!

    By the way, what's the worth of the life of a Canadian killed in action? Or another who might have been "tortured" in a Middle Eastern country?
  61. REV eighteenseventeen from Canada writes: The day of reckoning draws nigh. REV= REVELATION.
  62. Richard Stanczak from Corunna, Canada writes: Steve from Western Canada is typical of the mindset that is taking over North America. His 'sources' consist of speeches and articles from pro-war pundits and politicians that throw out any wild claim against our 'enemies(?)' that are dutifully reprinted by our press with no regard for fact checking.

    When some groups actually investigate these claims and disprove them, they get little attention. By then the original liars have put out a new batch of wilder claims and the cycle starts again.

    People like Steve have little capacity for critical thought and even less for admissions that they have been mistaken or misled.

    This is why our political discourse and democracy in general is degrading right in front of us.
  63. Jessica Adams from Canada writes: What happened to us.
  64. IEM Canadian from Everywhere, Canada writes: Whats with that degrading pic of our soldier walking a farm animal. G&M is a facist rag.
  65. Jessica Adams from Canada writes: What is degrading about walking with a farm animal, many farmers in this great country do it on a daily basis, as do millions around the world. What could possibly be degrading about that?
  66. David Bakody from Dartmouth, Canada writes: Just for starters from Unknown News.......

    Most recent update:
    July 16, 2007. At least 832,962 people have been killed, and
    1,590,895 seriously injured in Afghanistan and Iraq

    Add to this over 2 million people displaced, and families living with no food housing and medical care.........and more and more than I care to list now.
  67. North of the Border from Canada writes: Jamie Cartwright from Toronto, you might have spent numerous times repeating grades in highschool but last time I checked this was a simple comments page. Didn't realize anyone needed to proofread their posts and, you would think, people would have enough sense figuring out what the poster meant anyways. $9000 per person killed? Here's a question: who pays for a soldier's funeral? If the family then $9000 is pretty much negated anyways. A mother and 2-3 kids getting $9,000? Look out they don't skip to the bank.
  68. Mark Holman from Chatham, Canada writes: I need some money man, com on over and shoot the family dog. That's got to be at least $30 thousand.
  69. Eric Payne from Canada writes: Gee with al of this great intelligence on this blog how did we even end up in a war to beging with? Probably cause the govenment dose not take it's advise from drive through windows. I do not think i seen any of you commenting on the story where they reported another suicide bomber and the mess that it created.
  70. A B from Calgary Area, Canada writes: Shameful...... Your Tax Dollars at Work.

    Just wait until Fascist Flaherty and King Steve gets us into a recession with deficit spending... he will offer to pay them off in Donuts.
  71. Jan Burton from Toronto, Canada writes: In Afghan society compensation for accidental death is permitted yet here we find the loony left up in arms. Whatever happened to respecting local culture?

    While I don't think the Afghan mission is worth the blood of a single Canadian soldier I find the constant attacks on our forces by some in Canada to be sickening.

    People die in war, folks - no matter how just or unjust the war may be. At least our troops have the decency to offer compensation for an accidental death, which is more than the Taliban offer to people they kill on purpose!
  72. Festina Lente from Tampa Bay, United States writes: This should be reported as BREAKING NEWS. NON AMERICAN GENERATed FRIENDLY FIRE DEATHS.

    My friends, all military ops have friendly fire incidents whether in war or peace.
  73. Dave of the North from Yellowknife NT, Canada writes: On an aside: what's with the goat? We can't afford to train dogs?
  74. Jimmy Rabbitte Sr from Land of Make Believe, Canada writes: I sure hope that the goat in the picture isn't the latest IED detection device being employed by the Canadian Forces as part of the equipment upgrading program....Come to think of it, the goat may be more effective than the armoured vehicles the soldiers ride around in.
  75. The Conservator from Canada writes: tthats too much money!!!
  76. Richard Hawk from Canada writes: Great - more $$ money $$ down the drain on this mission. So much money $$$ we could be spending here. $$$
  77. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: ..'without any admission of liability from Canada '.........see - our hands are clean!!! We are still the good guys and we are still holier-than-thou!
  78. The Skipper from Canada writes: The Royal Bank could lend the family $9,000.00 under the guise of a "Student Loan" and charge the family 8.5% interest for 10 years then the family could take this $9,000.00 and invest it in Opium production etc.,
    Manulife should be over there selling them Life Insurance and the Canadian Army could pay the premiums.
    Gee - I am full of ideas this morning !
    Oh yah - I will take a little John Deere 2305 Tractor with a mower deck, a front end loader, a backhoe attachment etc.,
  79. Dominik B from Canada writes: Ok, now that most knee-jerk reactions have (I hope) been posted, anybody care to discuss what compensation, if any, Canada should offer? Answers like: what are we doing there, bring the troops home and we shouldn't be there does not answer the immediate question. What should we do, if anything, to the families victim of these types of actions and accidents? Indeed, local customs and traditions should be taken into account. I sure would like to have a former CIMIC member post here on this forum to enlighten us on what is considered appropriate and how did we come to this. As of now, this article doesn't mention much. I suspect the story behind those friendly fire/accidents are documented somewhere else than in the accountants journals. Anyway, just my ramblings.
  80. Jan Burton from Toronto, Canada writes: The Iconoclast from Canada writes: ..'without any admission of liability from Canada '.........see - our hands are clean!!! We are still the good guys and we are still holier-than-thou!"

    If your point is that all sides have some blood on their hands in war then you're right.

    If you're sarcastically suggesting that our troops are no different than the Taliban then you're an idiot.
  81. Rob L from Vancouver, Canada writes: Tell me again how having troops in Afghanistan is serving the interests of Canada? The only interest this war is serving is that of Canada's master, the US.
  82. Dan Shortt from Toronto, Canada writes: Canadians are in Afghanistan trying to help these people, and some are losing their lives for the effort. How much compensation are we getting from the Afghanis when one of our soldiers gets killed?
  83. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: Jan Burton from Toronto, Canada writes:

    If you're sarcastically suggesting that our troops are no different than the Taliban then you're an idiot.

    Didn't we kill as many civilians as the Talibans? Oops, my bad, I forgot we paid more.
  84. Derek Moss from Canada writes: Many readers (as a result of reporters feeding information without context back to Canadians) are mistakenly applying western standards to the act of payment.

    The area within which Canadian Forces (not to mention many other Canadian departments) operates is heavily influenced by a code of conduct called Pashtunwali (as the name implies, it is the code of honour of the Pashtuns...the predominant culture in Kandahar Province).

    One of the precepts of Pashtunwali is Nanawatay (spelling varies), which, loosely translated, means "to seek forgiveness." It is done not only to show respect and to do the right thing, but also to avoid Badal (revenge). The evolution of Nanawatay sees payment, along with visiting the home of the offended party, as proper.

    To apply the Canadian standard of "admitting wrongdoing" or "paying to make a problem disappear" to this time-honoured local tradition is missing the point. Our folks in uniform, and the hardworking DFAIT, CIDA (not to mention the Canadian police!) staffs, know what they are doing, and take cultural considerations very seriously, I imagine.
  85. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    The legendary cheapness of Canadians (the difference between a canoe and a Canadian, a canoe tips) extends to taking umbrage at compensation paid in connection with civilian deaths.
  86. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:

    What the average annual income of these people?--$500???

    Therefore 9G is 18 years income. Average in Canadian household--75G?

    The compensation therefore feels like more than a million bucks.

    It doesn't replace a family member, but ut's still more than families of innocent victims in Canada ever receive (from anybody)
  87. J M from Realityville, Canada writes: Why isn't it the Americans responsibility to make these payment, after all they're the ones doing the friendly firing.
  88. Jeff R from United States writes: Why is this story newsworthy?
  89. F.T. Ward from Canada writes: Killing someone who you think (or you say you thought) was a suicide bomber but turns out was not isn't "accidental" it's intentional and perhaps justifiable homicide. Hitting bystanders with warning shots is negligence. The idea that casualties caused by shooting at Afghans who get to close to a convoy are "accidental" is nonsense. The deaths of innocent Afghans is considered acceptable (perhaps even cost effective?) by the CF to prevent harm to our troops. We aren't in Afghanistan to help the Afghans or to even to actually "win the war" so a few local casualties to avoid Canadians getting hurt is completely logical.
  90. The Iconoclast from Canada writes: Jeff R from United States writes: Why is this story newsworthy?

    Simple - some of us have a conscience.
  91. Wild Bill from Canada writes: So let's hear Stevies spin on his. I'm sure he has a good arguement. Why not offer them & their families a relocation program in Canada with all benefits for life paid for by taxpayers. How cheap can we be as Canadians? What is the gov. offering to Canadian families who have lost a member fighting this war??
  92. james fagan from Canada writes: Its a goat not a sheep!! How can the G&M make such simple errors??? Ridiculous. Not knowing the simple difference between common farm animals is outrageous. How can we believe anything that is printed in this rag when editors do not know the difference between a GOAT and A SHEEP??? Crazy
  93. The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes:
    J M from Realityville, Canada wrote:
    Why isn't it the Americans responsibility to make these payment, after all they're the ones doing the friendly firing.

    J M,
    It is obvious that Canadian troops are now being trained in the art of "cowardly fire"..............
  94. Zando Lee from Vancouver, Canada writes: ...this war represents Canada's shame....those who promote this ill-fated mission will pay dearly at the ballot box....this could very well be Stevie the Warmonger's Waterloo......
  95. Hoppy Camper from Canada writes: C'mon. This happens all the time, in Canada though, people just sue each other.
  96. Johnny Canuck from Canada writes: Headline "Forces paid for friendly-fire deaths, files show"
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    Why not
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    "Afghans paid for friendly-fire deaths, files show"
    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
    The second headline wouldn't anger the public so much I suspect.

    "
  97. I R from White Rock, BC, Canada writes: We have seen this before in certain countries. For example I believe it was the CF that paid the family of an accidentally killed person with several camels around 1992 or so in Somalia. The diyat.

    I don't see a problem with this in that it is no different than the settlement of a civil suit. The only issue is how much value does one put on a human life? And why should it differ depending on one's nationality or social condition?

    What would be more interesting is to find out if in any of these cases, the soldiers involved were disciplined or charged under the National Defence Act. If none were, that might raise a really serious problem - that there is no effective chain of command functionning. Sounds like a project for an enterprising investigative journalist (Access to Information).
  98. Just Sayin' from Canada writes: Seems to me the issue is being clouded here by the dollar amount. Clearly $9,000 for a human life is reprehensible but the bigger issue is that of 'responsibility'. By making these payments we are de facto admitting responsibility to the families of the slain. But that responsibility, it seems to me doesn't travel across the ocean.

    This is problematic on a number of levels. First, the military is paid for by our tax dollars. As such, shouldn't it be incumbent on them to inform us when members of that military are considered to have committed a wrong?

    In addition, we are asked to respect and trust the decisions made by our military. But when these decisions involve protecting one's own rather than worrying about the broader reputation of the military is it legitimate for them to ask us to accept their stance? If they are not investigating and prosecuting those involved in these events how can we trust them to be protecting our best interests and not their own?

    Trust and respect are given by most of us to our military carte blanche at the beginning of these sorts of excursions/incursions (whether we believe the action legitimate or not) but this trust and respect must be honoured if it is to continue to exist. This is another serious black mark on my opinion of the military, in general (along with prisoner transfer).

    The good among our military force deserve better then the brass is giving them. These situations need to be brought to light and the perpetrators of these actions need to be held accountable for their actions. If it is truly an error then a military tribunal should determine this. If is cold blooded murder then prosecution is necessary. Regardless, the citizenry deserves to know what is going on here. This cannot be swept under the rug unless to military and government are willing to accept us not believing the military is there doing good.
  99. Jan Burton from Toronto, Canada writes: The Iconoclast from Canada writes: "Didn't we kill as many civilians as the Talibans?"

    No, Canadians have not killed as many civilians as the Taliban in this war. Not even close.

    NATO as a whole? Perhaps, depending on who you ask.

    At least NATO forces have tried to better life for the locals with schools, roads, infrustructure, medicine...not as much as they should but at least it's something. The Taliban, meanwhile, burn schools, blown up infrustructure, mine roads and kill doctors.
  100. Claude Carriere from Canada writes: snow lander from Edmonton, Canada writes: if you can't win over hearts and minds i guess it is ok to try and purchase them.
    -----------------------------------------------
    4 blillion for Quebec, it works!
  101. S L from Canada writes: I wonder if the victims in Canada get paid from friendly-fire or friendly- taser deaths from the RCMP or the local police force.
  102. Jimmy Rabbitte Sr from Land of Make Believe, Canada writes: Attn: James Fagan. I see the picture got your goat.
  103. Mister G. from Canada writes: This is passing as news? No, just another f0king attempt by the G&M to discredit our armed forces anyway they can. What a disgrace this paper is becoming.
    And the m0rr0ns in this forrum are swalloinng it all, hook, line and sinker.
  104. Cowtown boy from Calgary, Canada writes: I'll make this easy. You can't so stop trying. Believe whatever garbage you want too. I'll believe my sources.

    Hey Stupid Steve ..... at least some can put up stats here. If you have sources, then put them up or shut up. What an idiot.
  105. M j