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Van City sizzles, T.O. fizzles

BEPPI CROSARIOL

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:02 AM EDT 30/04/08

New York's finest are making waves on the West Coast while one of Toronto's best bolts elsewhere ...Read the full article

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  1. Jodey D from Canada writes: While I live in Ottawa, I have dined at many of Toronto's finer restaurants including Susur, Splendido and Scaramouche. The latter two, I am desperate to get back to.

    Unfortunately, I for one will not be mourning the departure of Susur Lee. About 4 years ago, my then girl friend and I went for a dinner at Susur. The food itself was absolutely incredible and is at least comparable to the very best restaurants I have visited. Unfortunately, the service was absolutely dreadful, from beginning to end.

    I recognize any restaurant can have a bad night and decided to write Mr. Lee a very polite letter that noted my significant disappointment in the service that night along with a copy of my bill which was in excess of $400. I received no response and for that reason, I could never return to Susur, nor could I recommend that anyone elso go either. At that price, one should expect great food and great service. Perhaps things have improved, but the lack of a response to a letter that was both prompt and polite was, in my opinion, unprofessional and that is sad because the food was incredible.
  2. dave armstrong from toronto, Canada writes: You make it sound like Susur isn't reopening his restaurant after 2 months renovation. I know it's not going to be the exact same thing, but Susur isn't leaving toronto forever. Beppi Crosariol is an idiot.
  3. Dana Dana from Canada writes: Food and Wine Magazine has recently recognized Vancouver. This years top ten food and wine cities are,

    1. Tokyo
    2. Paris
    3. New York City
    4. London
    5. Barcelona
    6. Sydney
    7. Madrid
    8. Chicago
    9. Stockholm
    10. Vancouver, Canada

    http://www.foodandwine.com/articles/the-worlds-10-best-restaurant-cities-go-list-2008

    So don't feel too badly Toronto. Think of all the other cities that aren't on that list either.
  4. A T from Victoria, Canada writes: West is BEst!
  5. Able Bodied Man from Colony of Van Isle, Canada writes: Van City sizzles, T.O. fizzles
    -----------------------------------------------

    Van City is the name of a credit union. They'll be pleased to know they sizzle.
  6. Able Bodied Man from Colony of Van Isle, Canada writes:
    Anybody tried Bobby Ribbotto's "Big Rib Palace" ?
  7. Neon Cab from Canada writes: Why no mention of how big name chefs may be attracted to Vancouver now so they can settle in and be ready to cash in on the upcoming Olympics? I realise the city's already a good place to eat, but could this fact not have an impact on the pace and scale of restaurant developments? Would these chefs have gone to Vancouver later or even elsewhere entirely if it weren't for the prospect of leveraging the event to ensure their restaurants actually make money?
  8. D. Patrick from Gonzoville, Canada writes: Kind of a foolish slant to this article--manipulating a regional tension--but do what you have to do if you are a mediocre journalist trying to sell a story. Meanwhile, Vancouver's gain is not Toronto's loss, and no one here down east is going to lose sleep over Vancouver excelling at something it does well. I, for one, will be celebrating it. Keep it up!
  9. William Muller from Vancouver, Canada writes: Neon Cab, do you really think they'd go through the bother and expense of opening a new restaurant here just for those few weeks that the world is visiting us during the Olympics? No, just swallow the bitter pill that Vancouver has surpassed good old Hogtown when it comes to innovative dining experiences. (Not that I'll be able to afford to dine at any of those venues...)
  10. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: Let's update the scorecard then... Vancouver now has better restaurants, neither city has a decent hockey team, both cities need a couple billion dollars to fix their transit systems. Neither city has a decent symphony orchestra. Vancouver is about to be destroyed by the Olympics. Toronto has already been destroyed by several consecutive federal and provincial governments wanting to capitalize on anti-Toronto sentiment among voters. Vancouver has too many snow boarders. Toronto has too many lawyers and bankers. Vancouver has bad coffee.

    Yeah, it's still pretty much a wash. I'll stay in Toronto, at least we have good coffee.
  11. B to the A to the R to the T from the left coast, Canada writes: Why are you surprised BEPPI CROSARIOL? Vancouver has become a culinary heaven. In our newspapers there are almost weekly stories about innovative places like Salt and Transcontinantal. Chefs getting hiring bonuses that rival most white collar salaries, entire kitchen crews being bought out from unsuspecting restaurant owners, etc, etc.

    And, Kevin Dooley, I doubt you know know good coffee from spring snowmelt water, Vancouver is 'Da Siznik' of Coffee Towns. Toronto coffee can be sized up in two words, Tim and Horton's.
  12. I_Hate_David Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: Toronto is not nealy the World Class City people claim it to be. After being in New York and London recently Toronto can't hold a candle in terms of restaurants, entertainment, people, public transit. It's at point where every time I hear Comerade Miller spew on about Toronto being a world class city I keep thinking his writer forgot a word...Third. Compared to other major world cities I would class Toronto as a Third World City...and I was born and rasied here!
  13. Puk Natcha from coldandgray, Canada writes: They're still flogging the world-class city riff? It was tiresome when I left in 1991. Elevator shoes don't make a short man all and a $2000 dress doesn't make a dowdy woan beautiful.
  14. Terry in YVR from Vancouver, Canada writes: That's good for Vancouver! However it's making us into a pricey place for those who have the cash to splash.

    Perhaps the next story should be Van City sizzles with more high-end luxury cars per capita than T.O.
  15. Lung Hacker from Canada writes: Puk Natcha from coldandgray, Canada writes: They're still flogging the world-class city riff?
    ____________________________________________________

    Not nearly as much as people who are dead set on hating Toronto. Now that Spring is here, the rest of the country has switched over from "army, snowstorm, hahaha" to "world class city, hahaha"
  16. Antonio San from Canada writes: Beppi writes: "Mr. Geraghty succeeded David Hawksworth, the maestro who built West's reputation as one of the country's top restaurants and who is planning his own establishment in the redeveloped Hotel Georgia."
    Recently West was honored as the best eatery in Vancouver. Well it should be said that it was BEFORE Geraghty...
    Whatever the credentials Mr Geraghty holds, West customers will find out, like I did, that we have lost. Obviously Mr Hawksworth wanted more than a job but West owners thought one can replace him easily and held tight. What a mistake! From the amuse bouche, Geraghty style is heavy and unfocused. The appetizer was average and the meat for the main course was barely tender! The pastry chef saved the day!
    In a high restaurant, a change of executive chef can be accompanied with a change of menu but should not be accompanied with such a slump of quality in the food and in its taste: this is simply unprofessional for the kind of money West charges, especially when before, it was worth every penny!
    When visiting Vancouver, we'll wait until Hotel Georgia opens and by the way enjoy a better experience at Bacchus, Crocodile but West, no more!
  17. Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: Da Siznik of coffee towns... Tim Horton coffee... exactly the sort of thing I'd expect to hear from somebody who knows nothing about coffee. Toronto has the Riviera Cafe on College Street, which has the best coffee in Little Italy and therefore, by extension, the world.
  18. bill williams from Canada writes: -

    If haute cuisine, focused on the latest tweaky, trendy, nouveau, arch, self-absorbed silliness is what you're after, Vancouver's vacuous preoccupations with itself are as good as those of any other of a large number of large cities who don't really have any long standing record in the cuisine department -- haute, or otherwise.

    In the world ... Paris? Certainly; New York? Yes, except it's hard to appreciate good food when you know that so many people in the room don't.

    In Canada, the only cities that have given steady long standing attention to doing food right are first, Montreal (no question), and second (good case to be made) Toronto. Others need not apply, but in a few decades Vancouver might be there.

    -
  19. John E. Boy from Canada writes: Vancouver is like the little boy who figures everyone will look at him if he yells loudly and beats his chest. What do you think all those high-class restaurant patrons are talking about as they gaze out the windows at the homeless people on the Downtown East Side?
  20. bo 27 from Canada writes: Great!

    Too bad Vancouver is just so boring, compared with other cities of the world. No wonder the nick name is No Fun City.

    Hopefully that will change some day.
  21. ginger lnu from vancouver, Canada writes: Dear Kevin Dooley - Caffe Artigiano in Vancouver can out-Little Italy any coffee house in Toronto.
  22. Cynthia C from Toronto, Canada writes: Toronto is in desperate need of good polishing at a finishing school. If not, we're going to decline, people. DECLINE!
  23. Devon MacDonald from Toronto, Canada writes: While born and fed in Toronto after a recent visit to Vij in Vangroovy (my word for VanCity) I was impressed by the outstanding food, reasonable prices and relaxed atmosphere - a combination which would close a restaurant in Toronto
  24. Michael Enright from Canada writes: Considering that Pino Posteraro hasn't been in Toronto since 1996, I would hardly call this an expert when it comes to dining here. I haven't lived in NYC since 2004, but I wouldn't even hazard a guess to the current dining scene there.

    The food scene in every part of this country is different from one another and constantly evolving. Plus if I was to give the culinary crown to anyone, it would have to be Montreal (and Halifax as up and coming dining scene).

    My $0.02
  25. Kooky Von Kookenheim from Centre of the Universe, Canada writes: I feel for you westerners, always trying to catch up to Toronto and slamming us for anything you can get your tofu-eating, pot-smoking, clog-wearing, tree-hugging hands on. Pathetic.
    I lived in Vancouver and couldn't wait to get back to the city where restaurants, and great ones, are plentiful, where the arts and culture are abundant and celebrated (it takes a paltry 45 minutes to complete what Vancouverites consider their art gallery and museum. Embarrassing). There is an utter lack of quality restaurants in Vancouver period. And why eat downtown when it shuts down at 10:00pm on a Saturday night?! BORING. A beautiful city no doubt, when the sun shines, but please, give your head a shake. If yoiu love Van, then great, I respect that. But you have got to realize something, Torontonians could care less about what you say about us or how much you want to tell yourselves Van is a cosmopolitan city. It's not.
    Keep trying though, and maybe one day you'll grow up and have enough great restaurants because right now, you don't even have enough to compete against the Distillery alone.

    Have fun paying for the Olympics for the next 30 years...

    Proud, and well-fed, Torontonian.
  26. Sawchuck 30 from Far Away From the GTA, Canada writes: Kooky Von Kookenheim from Centre of the Universe, Canada writes: I feel for you westerners, always trying to catch up to Toronto and slamming us for anything you can get your tofu-eating, pot-smoking, clog-wearing, tree-hugging hands on. Pathetic. [...] But you have got to realize something, Torontonians could care less about what you say about us or how much you want to tell yourselves Van is a cosmopolitan city. It's not. Keep trying though, and maybe one day you'll grow up and have enough great restaurants because right now, you don't even have enough to compete against the Distillery alone. Have fun paying for the Olympics for the next 30 years... Proud, and well-fed, Torontonian. ======= Dude, that was one of the best whinging, sobbing rants I've ever seen offerred up as proof that you "don't care". I hope you had a tissue close at hand. You care. You care that TO didn't get the Olympics, you care that Vancouver doesn't shovel snow for 6 months of the year. You care that on Boxing Day Vancouverites play golf while you're digging out your car from yet another snow storm. You care that the global press continually recognize that Vancouver is one of the best cities in the world in which to live/vacation. You care enough to show the readers of G&M by coming on here and throwing a tantrum. Hope your tears didn't short out your keyboard, you sad little man.
  27. Brent Williams from London, United Kingdom writes: Michael Enright ,

    I agree with you mate. Montreal is brilliant in just about every regard (except for its ice hockey fans apparently), but especially food.

    And Halifax has a particular charm that you just can't find anywhere else. i.e. Economy Shoe Shop

    Cheers
  28. spicydoc--That'll do, spicydoc, that'll do... from Canada writes:
    I remember watching Susur compete against Bobby (grill everything) Flay on Iron Chef.

    It was a 'tie'. I don't think Susur ever recovered from this insult (kinda like Madanna tying Mozart for 'musicianship').

    Anyway, my guess is that Susur learnt that flash trumps substance any day of the week, hence the NYC franchise. I hope he gets rich. Too bad the supreme food is probably gone for good.
  29. Former 2 Time CIBC Staffer from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Anybody who has eat at Tojo's recently has not had kind things to say... Check out www.dinehere.ca. C Restaurant treats you like a second class citizen unless you're a food reviewer or a celebrity... Much as I like the restaurant scene here, there are definitely some issues here as well... Some owners/operators definitely are getting too big for their britches...
  30. MGL in NYC from United States writes: I find the comments amusing.... plenty of frustrated people. I've dined (for Business) in Vancouver, Calgary Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec City. At all these location, recommendations were made by the hotels. I look for regional specialty. Something hopefully you cannot find in NYC. Quebec City was excellent for a city of it's size, was I in a small city in France? Montreal was diverse, exciting, and impressive. Not Paris but a lot closer to NYC for similar quality. Ottawa was good, but it is a government capital city. Toronto was an improving city, similar to London. English cusine is not famous but it gets better everytime I go. Calgary is small but prospereous. Have to say it was one of the best steaks in Canada. MTL was a close second. Vancouver was best for Asian influence, and it's noteworthy regional wines. The Yukon Salmon was worth the trip!
  31. M K from Vancouver, Canada writes: I'm not really sure why Toronto is being compared to Vancouver. They are both in different countries and have different cultures. That Canada place people keep talking about has nothing to do with us out here. A comparison to San Francisco, Tokyo, or Hong Kong is more appropriate.
  32. Antonio San from Canada writes: Funny how the globe enjoys eliciting some countrywide bashing... Canadians seem to hate eachothers, quebecers and americans. They seem to know it all and lecture all. Meanwhile they have some of the worst leaders, health care and culture in the G7.
  33. lary waldman from Qualicum Beach, Canada writes: The thing I love about these restaurants is that by and large they are frequented by people who just can't wait to show you their new $100,000.00 kitchen renovation, that is, just before they go out for dinner six nights a week. I appreciate there must be room for everyone, but think about the circumstances we all live in and for god sake what about our Grandchildren. Go out a little less and adopt a Guatamalen Orphan for Christs sake if not your own.

    Lary Waldman
  34. bill williams from Canada writes: -

    You know, really, it is the wrong question perhaps.

    People (including me; see previous post) get sucked into the 'duelling cities' thing. If it's about where to go to eat, you really need to ask THAT question in isolation and steer clear of issues of what major urban centre will stun you with its ARRAY.

    One of the best meals I've ever had in my life: Langdon Hall in a little town about an hour west of Toronto, Chef Jonathan Gushue.

    -
  35. Able Bodied Man from Colony of Van Isle, Canada writes:
    When I was 20 and living in Edmonton, I went to Expo 67 in Montreal. Spent a day at Expo and a week in Montreal. Loved it and thought how great it was to have such a terrific city in my own country.
  36. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Call me superficial, but one of the main reasons I moved to the Vancouver area was the quality of food in stores and restaurants, at all price levels from street meat dogs to incredible classic French.

    Two reasons for Vancouver's long standing variety and quality of food enterprises ..... abundant local produce and a large wealthy multi-cultural metropolitan population ... immigrants with money and know-how to start restaurants/markets/farms.

    In the last month, I have had Ethiopian, Northwest seafood, Indonesian and bought fresh halibut and superb local tomatoes. And all at prices simply not available anywhere else in Canada.

    lary waldman ... I am currently debating a move to Qualicum, where my parents live, and the availability and variety of food enterprises is a factor in my decision. The increased availability of Island produce is encouraging.

    Please don't start with the West Coast whine, "what about your grandchildren" routine. I am perfectly aware of the approx. 25,000 people per day dieing from starvation or starvation related diseases. I am also aware of the lemming like ignorance that has given the B.C.
    government the encouragement for North America's only carbon tax, despite projections of $1.50/litre fuel this summer.

    Canada is among 22 nations who recently committed to donate .7% of GDP to world hunger assistance. We have "planned" to give less than .35%.

    You want to help humanity? Get rid of the inequitable and moronic carbon tax, put a small tax on restaurant meals and hotel rooms called a world assistance tax and give the money directly to the UN World Food Program. No administration, no goofy carbon dividend cheques, and it is spiritually neutral.
  37. Pete Diamant from Toronto, Canada writes: Also remember, the Ontario economy is not doing the greatest right now. If you're Susur Lee, did you want to be in the province that's impacted the most by the economic slowdown and has a significantly declining tourism industry? There is always money and tourists in NY. If you are a chef in New York city, do you want to live with another winter like NY and Toronto did? People don't go out for dinner when their cars are buried in 2-3 ft of snow.

    But, let's face it, just like food is sold by the sizzle, articles are sold by the headline.
  38. B G from Vancouver, Canada writes: Pete Diamant - NYC hardly gets any snow. And its actually quite mild relative to Toronto (most of the time). Are you suggesting a chef would move to Vancouver from NYC because of the weather?
  39. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Vancouver consistently picked in top world tourist destinations, large cruise industry, large amount of offshore real estate investment, 2010 Olympics tourism .... great arena for talent to gain exposure.
  40. Let me tell You How It Effing Is from Seattle, Washington, United States writes: First of all Vancouver is more appropriate than Toronto.

    Problem with Vancouver involves scores of homeless losers, parking tickets and parking.
    Like any service economy that doesn't produce wealth itself but acts like a parasite the City of Vancouver's main source of revenue is from taxes and parking tickets. 30 seconds after a parking meter is expired the freakin Vancouver police thugs are on top of the major crime scene writing up parking tickets and leaving. Never mind the dead bodies scattered around the side walk or the pimps walking around.
    Then if you get a parking place and pay $50 for the privilege you have to run the gauntlet of stinky homeless people spitting and shouting profanities at you. It really ruins one's appeitite.
  41. john wardle from Canada writes: "Vancouver is like the little boy who figures everyone will look at him if he yells loudly and beats his chest. What do you think all those high-class restaurant patrons are talking about as they gaze out the windows at the homeless people on the Downtown East Side? "

    We're thinking "why don't they move to Toronto".

  42. D Burgess from Vancouver, Canada writes: Nevermind all the Van vs. TO sniping, I'm not sure why the authors left out the fact that Vancouver is the largest port of entry from Asia to Canada. That's had a huge impact on the industry, and led to the creation of regional 'fusion' cuisines, that apply local Westcoast ingredients to more traditional Asian dishes.

    You've got a lot of new money and ideas, coupled with locally available fresh ingredients, and a booming economy. Why is it so surprising that Van tops TO in this respect....?
  43. Jimmy Savile from Canada writes: I really enjoyed the story in Globe Focus on Mar 22 by John Allemang, What's for dinner. Angst with a side of guilt." He states in the story. "eating well isn't about throwing around lots of money and staying ahead of the culinary fashions and pursuing rarity." Amen.

    I loathe the pretentious, poseurville nature of many Toronto restaurants. The bigger the hype, the bigger the price gouge and the poorer the service. Sure, poor service can mean slow, but most often means miserable, impolite and uninformed waitstaff in this town.
  44. Robert Loblaw from Canada, Canada writes: Jimmy Savile - Well said!
  45. Montreal Guy from Canada writes: I had no idea Toronto was the culinary capital of Canada or that Montreal's restaurant fame was due largely to the quality of its French based cuisine.
  46. Rabid Senses from Good gawd, a latte-swilling Westerner, Canada writes:

    Kevin Dooley from Canada writes: . . . I'll stay in Toronto, at least we have good coffee.
    ___________________________

    Ha ha . . . thanks for the throwaway comment.

    And you knew full well the response that was coming.

    Being a former Torontonian I can assure you Vancouver does not feel an iota slighted by any caffeinated concoction coming my former city.

    I love Toronto and miss my old home . . . but I just gotta jump in (as others surely will) and correct your misleading comment.

    Vancouver's coffee is great, thank you very much.

    Oh how I was reminded of that during my visit to family and friends this past holiday season.
  47. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: Great smoked sausage at the Ukranian Co-op in Regina.

    My first favourite restaurant was Len's Lunch. Opened at 5:00AM for truckdrivers, warehouse workers, .... Len's clubhouse sandwich .... three slices white bread with layers of side bacon, cheddar cheese, real ham 1/4 inch thick, real turkey, big slice of raw onion, and there was a drizzle ... bacon fat.

    Can't find that in Vancouver.
  48. bill williams from Canada writes: -

    This might be of interest.

    These are the CAA/AAA Canadian restaurants receiving 5 diamonds in that organization's rating system. The number following the rating indicates number of consecutive years that the award has been received. The number that get 4 diamonds is huge.

    ___________________

    Alberta

    BANFF

    1- Eden, 5
    (in The Rimrock Resort Hotel)
    2- The Banffshire Club, 5
    (in The Fairmont Banff Springs)

    _________________

    British Columbia

    VANCOUVER

    1- Lumière, 4

    __________________

    Ontario

    OTTAWA

    1- Signatures @ Le Cordon Bleu, 3

    TORONTO & Area

    1- Truffles, 14
    (in the Four Seasons Hotel Toronto)

    2- Langdon Hall Dining Room & Terrace, 4
    (in the Langdon Hall Country House
    Hotel & Spa Cambridge)

    _______________

    Québec

    GATINEAU

    1- Le Baccara, 8

    MONTRÉAL

    1- Nuances, 8

    2- Toqué!, 3

    _____________________

    Banff does quite well, but nothing in Calgary nor Edmonton.

    Toronto gets two if you include the Langdon Hall dining room that I was mentioning in a previous post. Truffles has been on there for 14 years!

    Montreal gets 2

    Vancouver gets 1 (Lumiere).

    I wouldn't have rated Lumiere as high as Langdon Hall, but I'm sure that I haven't eaten at these two fine establishments as often as the professional reviewers.

    -
  49. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: The problem with restaurant reviews is that once the word is out, the prices go up, the crowds arrive and it becomes a status thing to eat there.

    The joy of Vancouver is the variety and number of good restaurants at low-medium prices, in North American big city scale.
  50. Emmanuel Chan from Toronto, Canada writes: I've always found Toronto cuisine to be overrated and overpriced. Service is lousy to mediocre at most times and the cuisine is either too bland or the chef tries too hard to stand out. In terms of cuisine and restaurants, Toronto cannot even start to compare with Montreal.
  51. Jorly fuster from Canada writes: The problem with Vancouver is there are great looking places to open restaurants, but when you do you find drug addicts and prostitutes at your front door after the sun goes down.
  52. pants 7 from Japan writes: Funny, I just got back from Vancouver and my general feeling for Vancouver was that it is quickly becoming Canada's leading city in everything, nit just food.
  53. Wanda Fyooka from Vancouver, Canada writes: "you find drug addicts and prostitutes at your front door after the sun goes down."

    ----------------
    Yeah, Jorley Fuster,
    Except in Toronto they're called Bay Street Executives and their dates!
  54. Pretty Much from Canada writes: For an average Joe like me, Toronto or Vancouver- doesnt matter..
  55. t b from YVR, Canada writes: As someone who has spent his entire life in Vancouver and dines out in this city on a regular basis, this whole business of trumpeting the arrival of prestigious NY chefs doesn't quite sit right. Vancouver isn't that... aspirational. Well, at least not in terms of chasing a "me too" when it comes to the world's most famous cities. We've got ego enough out here to refer to BC as "the best place on earth" in promotional materials from the provincial government, but I've always felt that was based on a different metric: livability. It is great to make a life here. As far as I can tell, Vancouverites don't have any designs on pursuing Paris- or New York-style sophistication. Why should we? We have our own east-meets-west-meets-canuck flavour - it might not be everyone's bag, but at least we aren't trying to be clones. What's the point of being New York redux? I definitely think that this is more about big name chefs chasing 2010 tourist dollars than it is about Vancouverites trying to pursue some inane notion of east coast sophistication. And, as already mentioned, "Van City" is a bank. Even calling this place "The 'couver" would have been better. Yeesh.
  56. Peter Brown from Mimico, Canada writes: Vancouver has wonderful restaurants, perhaps better than many cities better known for their food.
    It's just a shame one eats alone there if one prefers to eat late.

    Except at Chinese restaurants, take note: it is almost impossible to be in company if you like to have a slow adult dinner between say 9 and midnight - let alone later. Restaurants in Montreal and Toronto may not do as well in this latest tally, but at least patrons of these fantastic eateries aren't rushing home at 9 for a good sleep before their sunrise half marathon, or whatever Vancouverites must do instead of enjoying their evenings in company.
  57. Michael Tripper from Canada writes: vancouver is a brutal place to live - late nights - only if you are working buddy cuz otherwise it's kids, pets and waking up at dawn to work another day.

    however let us all acknowledge Let Me Tell from Seattle that Van is indeed a service economy - with all the foreign wealth the only local economy is serving wealthier people than you in some manner or another.

    Our Dickensian decidely not best place on earth society continues....
  58. bagoverhead guy from Delta, B.C., Canada writes: Interesting 'bun toss', particularly between Toronto and Vancouver.

    I've visited most of the major, world class cities around the world and eaten in hundreds of restaurants here and outside Canada.

    For food, wine, ambiance and value in Canada, Montreal is #1. Toronto and Vancouver are a toss-up. They are different cities, both great, terrific ethnic flair, but to say Vancouver has rolled over Toronto is simply a personal choice. There are great chefs moving to Toronto as well...it's a very fluid industry worldwide.

    Dining is such a personal choice...in my opinion, the best restaurant city in the world is Buenos Aires....incredible value, fabulous food and wines, lively atmosphere starting about 10 each evening, and going well into the morning.

    Vancouver is beautiful, but dull...Toronto is more lively like Montreal.
  59. Katherine R from Canada writes: I loved living in both Vancouver and Toronto but found Torontonians' self image was completely over-inflated. There are cool things about Toronto - great neighbourhoods, walkable downtown, good arts scene, but it is nowhere near London, New York or Tokyo. Plus it is one of the ugliest and most decrepit of the first world 'global' cities. So much of its architecture is depressing 70s brutalist style and the waterfront is a complete disaster yet to talk to a Torontonian, you would think the city sparkles. Try going to Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Shanghai or Kuala Lumpur and you will know how dumpy and dated Toronto is. I wouldn't mind moving back to TO, I just think people there need a dose of reality about their 'New York of the north'.
  60. Michael Tripper from Canada writes: Katherine dead-on

    I'm from Mtl and probably headed back after 12 years but did spend 7 yrs in Toronto and 5 here in Vanc.

    Each city has something to offer, but only Montreal understands sophistication to any degree whatsoever.

    Delusional is the best word to describe the "best place on earth" and the "world-class city" - if you have to call yourself cool, you ain't.

    (Hilarious aside - when I was employed working for an ad agency we did work for the BC Gov and recall one-day noticing the "best place on earth" logo and wordmarks on a shopping cart ad - the only problem the main thrust of the ad was to announce something about not doing Methamphetamine or that it was a problem or something. One simple mindless juxtaposition and the whole farce was laid bare.

    First thing the next morning emails went out from me to the accounts people and the issue was resolved., just fyi)

    I'm still looking for work or donations to get out of town.
  61. Ed Long from white Rock, Canada writes: I love, can I repeat, Love Buenos Aires .... Vancouver is Creelman, Saskatchewan compared to Buenos Aires.

    Can you imagine people thinking about dinner at 11:00 and eating organic beef and beautiful wine until the early morning hours.

    Hong Kong is a century ahead of Vancouver and a milllenium ahead of Toronto.

    Let's get it straight .... Canada is a tight a'''ed version of the Presbyterian Church, except for Montreal, and any discussion is simply an attempt to make us feel .... oh so cosmopolitan ..... in the Global sense.

    Like I said, smoked sausage at the Regina Ukranian Co-op is a genuine Canadian experience.
  62. Robbie Fowler from Toronto, Canada writes: ginger lnu is right. Cafe Artigiano in Vancouver is better than any coffee place in Little Italy, Tim Hortons or any other cafe in Toronto. Tim Hortons, 2nd Cup etc .. are not where its at..... and I actually live in TO. Thankfully the TTC is better (if only marginally and when they are not always under repair or striking) than that pathetic thing called Translink(BC Transit).
  63. Marley B from Vancouver, Canada writes: Funny - we may have some great high-end and middle range restaurants but Vancouver has the sh*^tiest breakfast/brunch and diner food ever, EVER! I have lived here for over 15 years and have yet to find a good breakfast place. This city is crying out for this market. I always enjoy going back to Toronto or Montreal for a generous and delicious breakfast/brunch. Oh and don't try and tell me Sophie's Cosmic is a good breakfast. It is mediocre food with a kitsch decor.
  64. Jorly fuster from Canada writes: ha, wanda that was funny. thanks.
  65. Bert Russell Paradox, BC from Canada writes:

    The wanna be sophisticates Art F@rt, my taste buds are outrageously pampered and pretentious club thrives in envy.
    When in Vancouver you world class porkers, try our White Spot!!
  66. John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: Toronto, the "culinary capital of Canada"? Since when? Leafs burgers? Sycophant sandwiches? Served with a fine Toronto whine?
    Cool!
  67. A C from Albertario, Canada writes:

    Gotta laugh: Toronto is New York of the North like Saskatoon is the Paris of the Prairies, and Vancouver is the Amsterdam of North America--Vansterdam, . . . except people in Amsterdam get to stay up past nine o'clock, Paris is a real city not a Greyhound bus station of a city, and Toronto isn't really like New York, it only plays the part of New York City on TV and in the movies.

    Canadians need to get their own points of reference rather than always be comparing ourselves to somebody else's standards. Montreal is perhaps the only Canadian city that doesn't bother comparing itself to other cities, because frankly it's incomparable.

    As for the food, it's an old rule: follow the money. Hell, Vegas has better restaurants and chefs than either Toronto or Vancouver, and it's because the money has migrated there.
    Next year we could be talking about Fort MacMurrary taking the crown from Vancouver. But, with all due respect I wouldn't want to live there.


    .
  68. Gogh Forit from Canada writes: Headline is totally misleading. I thought the story dealt with the migration of police officers from one city to another. The reference "the city finest" has always been attributed to their police force not the restaurants and another thing, I guess only people in Toronto recognize the "New York of the North" reference. People outside of the GTA are more familiar with Toronto being the "flat apple" when compared to New York.
    Upscale restaurants sure are sophisticated as they are able to convince diners to pay extraordinary amounts of money for paltry servings. Oh the pretentiousness of it all.
  69. The Mckenzie Brothers from Canada writes: My brother Doug is starting to go nuts for sea food so he was just wondering where he can go in T.O. I could use a little change from wings and pizza too. Maybe we take off to Vancouver, the empties should cover the gas.
  70. dee jay from Canada writes:
    I read the first two lines of this. This fits in the category of "almost news". I don't care, I don't care, I don't care.
  71. edward prior from Montreal, Canada writes: A little off topic, but since there seems to be some east-west bashing going on, where the heck is Michael Sharp extolling the virtues of Victoria? How's the weather, Michael? In the 20's here. Got snow?
    Cheers
  72. Hornsworth Portswiler from adanac, Canada writes: I've lived in both Toronto and Montréal (always love to see this "national" newspaper mangle accents, it's not rocket science guys). I am not a fine diner but I appreciate the many low key, attention to detail and innovate restaurants that both places have due to their backgrounds (like Terroni) . And everyone I know in Toronto cringes when they hear "world class city" and knows the city is largely ugly.

    I've only been to Vancouver twice and loved it, but yeah, there doesn't seem to be any place to go "out on the town" after 9 pm.
  73. My eyes are open, Are yours? from Canada writes: Maybe now we can get rid of all the weird, sculptural food, visual puns, 'foams', vanilla-blueberry-mint reductions on meat, undercooked fish, and purple potatoes. Not to mention, square plates as big as a slab of drywall.

    Hopefully all the foodies with their jaded palates will follow these chefs, pied-piper like, to whichever city they prefer to work in, and the rest of us can get back to simple, honest fare in reasonable portions, at reasonable prices, with good company.
  74. Rick N from Canada writes: I see a lot of people, mainly tourists, wondering why Vancouver shuts down by 9pm. The one thing no Vancouverite likes to admit, especially all the smug ones posting here, is that anyone with a real job that pays enough to allow them to eat out has to get up at the crack of dawn to get to work by 7am so they can serve the centre of the universe.

    BTW, I love Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal. They are all great cities for their own reasons.
  75. Miss Kitty from Victoria, Canada writes: Like many others, I though the article was about VanCity credit union....so I was surprised to see that it was about food! I live in a wonderful foodie city, with incredible coffee (thank you Cafe Fantastico) and incredible food.

    Lookout Vancouver and Toronto...we'll be nipping at your heels soon with our wonderful, local and fresh cuisine here on Vancouver Island.
  76. Josh Cuppage from Montreal, Canada writes: Does every single conversation on g&m.com have to devolve into 'my city's better than yours'? It doesn't even seem to matter what section. Are you all the same people who have this same argument in News? Or whenever there's anything about the NFL, NHL or Toronto FC in Sports?

    There are good restaurants in a buncha cities. I love Montreal for what it is, but other cities have lots to feel good about and enjoy too.

    Really. C'mon.
  77. T Scott from Toronto, Canada writes: Josh Cuppage from Montreal, Canada writes: Does every single conversation on g&m.com have to devolve into 'my city's better than yours'? It doesn't even seem to matter what section. Are you all the same people who have this same argument in News? Or whenever there's anything about the NFL, NHL or Toronto FC in Sports? There are good restaurants in a buncha cities. I love Montreal for what it is, but other cities have lots to feel good about and enjoy too. Really. C'mon. Posted 25/04/08 at 4:25 PM EDT | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment ..................................................................................................... Excellent comment and timely. Thanks. As someone who has lived in the GTA my whole life, I cannot reiterate enough that no one refers to anything here as "world class", rather, thats something spouted by others from outside the city as a slight. Toronto is however destined to become a "World City", but not for another 15-20 years by my estimation. As for the article, if the G&M is so desperate to illicite derogatory comments about Ontario, and Toronto in particular, no matter what the articles about (and they are) then why don't they move their headquarters away from Front Street, perhaps move to another province altogether, y'know, lead by example. Yeah, thought so....
  78. Popeye Dillon from North Vancouver, Canada writes: Well we have fewer Horton's here if that's a sign of culinary superiority I'll take it. Why do they advertise always fresh when its always frozen now.
  79. L T from Canada writes: Typical of G&M to post an article that fans the flames of regionalism.

    If high-priced and snotty food is the calling card for being Canada's 'culinary capital', then I feel badly for Vancouver - it's already expensive enough without adding more expensive restaurants.

    As Ed Long from White Rock points out, 'The joy of Vancouver is the variety and number of good restaurants at low-medium prices, in North American big city scale.' Unfortunately, if all of these 'world-class' chefs show up on Vancouver's store-step, that comment may no longer be as true.
  80. Canada Blows from United States writes: As far as cosmopolitan societies go, Canada as a whole is failing. Articles like this just go out of their way to underscore the regionalism and provincialism that is rife in the nation. Rather than celebrate Vancouver's accomplishments the author found it necessary to snipe at Toronto (although I doubt most care as it's really in its own league now).

    Typical of Canadians. Truly cosmopolitan countries find common ground. The one up north does its best to find difference.
  81. Kooky Von Kookenheim from Centre of the Universe, Canada writes: OK folks, enough. Let's face it, apples and oranges. I bashed Van previously but all in good fun. Toronto has more restaurants due to a lrage population base. Some are world-class and some are not. Van has some great spots, I just think they need more having lived there as well. I have been priveleged to have visitied every province in this great country of ouirs and love it all. Toronto is home, and yes, let's stop with the sibling rivalries and focus on what are as a nation. The comments from our US brethern are indeed funny considering the gap between the have's and have-nots is always expanding, your economy is a drag on the planet, and your attitudes towards other countries is just plain bullying. Stay out of our yard then and deal with the American dream of leveraging your entire life so to keep up with the Jones'. As Canadians we should all be proud of our geographical and cultural uniqeness. Montreal has flare and passion, Toronto is cosmopoitan and a great entertainment and sports city, the east has a warmth and charm that is unique to the world, the "middle east" provides our salt of the earth individuals who are the backbone of this nation, and the west has some of the most beautiful landscapes in the world. We all have our warts folks, we all have great dining, and we all have our insecurities, but we're all still Canadian and yes, the G&M should stop creating these ridiculous stories about me vs. you, it's stupid. When we travel the world I guarantee all of you that we take pride in wearing our Canadian flag stick pin and telling people "I'm from Canada". Can't we all just get along?

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