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Globe essay

Canada is much more than a hotel

TOM KENT

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 11:20 PM EDT 25/04/08

If they are not ready to commit to a citizenship that has real consequences, immigrants should move on ...Read the full article

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  1. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: hossein hajiagha from Victoria, Canada writes: 'I landed in stupid canada 1995 from Iran to Los angeles to canada...a women in Seattle told me do not go in this crazy country you going to became loser...she right...'

    She called that one didn't she.
  2. Chris Cirulis from Hamilton, Canada writes: How about dual citizenship mister??? How about asking all those British and French dual citizens to give up dual citizenship before they can become canadian citizens - including the head of the liberal party. How about getting rid of the governor general and lieutanant general and the picture of the queen on our currency?
    You don't think that compromises Canadian citizenship do you? Because its Anglo Saxon and Gaelic right? what you're really uncomfortable with is the fact that over time immigrants to canada are increasingly non-caucasian. This doesn't look like the Canada you knew 40 years ago with Pearson and you're uncomfortable. Well, pal the train is in motion and your half-baked ideas aren't going to reverse it.
    Citizenship is diluted if there are classes of citizen. You can't have that. America is happy to rescue its citizens in distress but they get a bill. Canada can do that too. We don't have to bail out anybody for free whether they are resident in Canada or in Bahrain. That really has nothing to do with citizenship. Also as a citizen, I don't identify with north european countries, i identify with african countries and asian countries and arab countries. Whose definition do we take? How about asking the first nations what the canadian identity should be. Just because Europeans got here before Africans and Asians doesn't give them first dibs on defining Canada. if we did it that way, then we'd ask the first nations to define everything for us.
  3. Adam Allouba from Montreal, Canada writes: What a revolting piece. Why doesn't this man just say what's really on his mind: Auslanders raus!

    Disgusting xenophobe.
  4. Steve Monaghan from Vancouver, Canada writes: Hossein:

    Exceedingly few people make a living as professional artists.

    If you can't find an animation job in Vancouver you're not trying, or you're no good at it.

    And I hate to say it, man, but if you've been in Canada for 12 years and you still write like that, you're not going to get a teaching job either.

    And you're more than welcome to LA.

    Canada's a great country, but it's no panacea...there aren't any free rides and it's tough for those of us born and raised here too, blue eyes or brown or whatever. Lower your standards or try harder. Either way, quit your bitching.
  5. David H from calgary, Canada writes: I can't believe what I am reading in the G&M. Good Lord, finally some common sense has sway in this paper. What a breath of fresh air!
  6. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: Canada will give you a chance, no guarantees. Lots of people take advantage of opportunity, and become Canadians. Others bring baggage that would make this a better place if they returned to where they came from with it.
  7. Eric from Reno, Nevada from United States writes: Hey, someone give me a work permit, I'll come up and ditch my US passport in 3 years....I swear I'll do my best to fit in....I'll even do extra work...nights, weekends, whatever......thanks.
  8. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: hossein hajiagha, seriously, 13 years? If you still don't like it, you're free to leave. The Ministry of Slaves won't bother you if you go.

    As this article says, our current immigration policy allows people (such as yourself) to treat this country like a hotel. You are probably a Canadian Citizen by now after all this time, so use it to get out of 'stupid Canada'. Unlike many countries (the US for example) once you leave, you don't have to pay tax to this country, so you're free to go, no strings attached, and use the citizenship the people of this country bestowed upon you for many advantages, all while complaining how awful our country is. Use it. Go to LA. Go to Europe. Above all else, stop complaining, because no one here wants to hear it.

    Also, if we want to proceed with any of these types of reforms mentioned in this article, we need the Liberals or NDP to propose it. If the Conservatives propose it, no matter how well intentioned, the wingbats will just call them racist and the bill will die. It needs to come from the wingbats themselves to protect us all from the shrill debate chilling cries of racism and bigotry that are casually thrown around to gain political advantage.
  9. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Rather than encourage Canada into the 21st Century global marketplace, Mr. Kent's piece proposes to drag us back towards the 19th Century nation-state. While the US does tax its citizens wherever they reside, it is only among a half dozen countries on this planet to do so (the others include Libya, North Korea, and the Phillipines) and it causes tremendous difficulty for companies who want to, or need to, transfer an American abroad (which is a tough enough task, as it is). Maybe without modern communications and transportation, new arrivals to Canada or wherever can be isolated and soak up the local environment, easing their transition to citizenship. But the diverse crowds that I see in the stands during the playoff games indicates to me that we are not having problems getting new immigrants, and especially their Canadian born and/or raised children into the fold.
  10. Jonathan Edwards from Somewhere, Canada writes: How can Immigrants who remain Residents be faulted for not taking Canadian Citizenship, when Canada's own Government works on behalf of US interests instead of the interests of Canadians? How many integration agreements have been entered with the US without the consent - and often without the knowledge - of Canadians? Canada is indeed being transformed from a Sovereign Nation into a Protectorate of the US, a Puerto Rico of the north, supplier of raw materials and legions to the Empire. Not very appealing in some respects. This country is beautiful and has a lot of amazing people in it, but the Rats-Nest that they call Ottawa stinks of treason against our own people, and smacks of politicians working on behalf of the interests of a foreign power. With prospects like that, of integration getting worse and not better, it is no wonder that some people do not decide to place both feet firmly in Canada. We don't have leaders who instill pride in being 'Canadian', so what enticement is there? Our leaders run with the pack when illegal wars happen. A nation of peacemakers has been transformed into a nation led by warmongers in just a short time. And while Canada as a place on earth is great, the politics are not. There are pros and cons, and unfortunately at the moment the Cons prevail. ;-)
  11. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Jonathon Edwards, I do hope you are one of those people who decides to plant his feet elsewhere.
  12. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: Let's see, we have Antonio San referring to us as a socialist swamp, while Jonathon Edwards speaks as though we are some sort of right wing appendage of the US. They can't both be right. In fact, I'm pretty damned certain they're both completely and totally wrong. They've reached completely opposite conclusions about the very definition of modern Canada, and it's hard to tell which is more idiotic.
  13. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Canadians are required to file a tax return for every year of their lives.

    I will have to file returns going back to 1994 should I ever return to Canada.

    Fortunately, I severed ALL ties prior to leaving, informed Revenue Canada of this, and got a letter back acknowledging that I qualified for 'ex-resident for tax porposes' with December 15, 1993 as the 'deemed date of departure' for capital gains tax purposes.

    The letter instructs me to staple copies to the missing returns, and 'zero' them.

    However, those that try working for a few years in Saudi Arabi, leaving a house and family behind in Canada do not qualify for ex-resident tax status, and are in for a nasty tax surprise when they return to Canada.

    As for revoking citizenship, Canadian is the only one that I have, and revoking it would effectively turn me into a 'displaced person', which is completely ridiculous. Best Regards.
  14. Antonio San from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin, why don't you sail back to Scotland or do you think you nanny -Canadian- knows best?
  15. siren call from Canada writes: Antonio San -- you seem to have had a horrible time in Canada.

    Something you want to tell us?
  16. Jacob Helsen from Amsterdam, Netherlands writes: I'll be that Canadian. In fact, many of my friends in Canada agreed that my English was better than theirs (yes I took advantage of the working holiday program in 2007; hell of a program!).
    But because immigration through legal ways is a long and painful process, I took on another awesome job in my old country. I guess those Vancouver callcenters and administrative jobs just above minimum wage will have to wait for another 2 years before I am allowed in.
    Don't get me wrong. I love Canada. After due research I have concluded that Canada is (one of) the most beautiful places in the world. And, if you don't like the current sq. mile you are in, move to one of the other 3,8 mln sq. miles.
    But the painstaking immigration process of over 2 years (3? 4?!?) does not help my sense of belonging. Nor does the way employers treat newcomers. 'So you have a master's degree? Well, I guess we can use another dish-washer, don't we?'

    Back to my tax-forms for 2007...
  17. Brian Bailey from North Vancouver, Canada writes: I was born in Canada and my family is United Empire Loyalist so next to the first nations, my family stock is truly original Canadian....which means that originally my ancestors immigrated here like everyone else, including the first nations, who immigrated from Asia.....and we are all descendents of Africans. So if every human being on the planet is related, why the hell does it really matter who is living in Canada and what their citizenship status is??? All that matters is that we all try to get along. Period.
  18. Antonio San from Canada writes: Siren Call, Yes: Canadians are Hypocrites and what goes around comes around!
  19. siren call from Canada writes: There are many difficulties in building a Canadian identity.

    But I fail to see how the heavy emphasis on taxation proclaimed in this article is helpful.

    We live in a global era now and as the writer notes, many of our citizens work out of country. OTOH we accept -- actively recruit-- people with various skills to come here.

    Perhaps we need a larger notion of what it means to be a citizen of the world. And then tax that.
  20. siren call from Canada writes: Antonio San -- I'm sorry you've had such a bad time. Particularly with delivering a baby in a hospital here?

    You certainly do express your outrage -- eloquently? Rawly?
    Your writing certainly packs a punch, is what I'm saying.
  21. Alastair james Berry from Nanaimo BC CANADA, Canada writes:
    All well and good and I immigrated to Canada from a near Bankrupt UK in 1956...........and the country has done me OK, I'll admit, but Canada has lost it's standing in the world since I arrived.

    What I find difficult to explain is, 'WHY HAS CANADA LOST IT'S INTERNATIONAL STANDING?'

    It is reported today that little Ireland, with only 4,000,000 of a population and virtually no NATURAL RESOURCES (except rain) has a standard of living and income per capita beyond that of the USA or Japan. Is was reported too that presently 33,000 have an income of above $2,000,000(Dollars @ 2 per Euro).

    If Canada(generously endowed with natural resources) could achieve a similar standard of living, there would be few complaints from immigrants and/or Quebeckers!!

    Perhaps Harper should visit Dublin rather than Washington and find out how the Irish managed it?
  22. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Amazing how many indians are not even indigenous to Canada, but rather fled to Canada seeking British protection from the Americans.

    So much for the 'we were here first' theory.

    The race theory does not wash either, since the number of pure blooded indians would likely fit on a school bus...

    What does an American indian look like?

    Mexican farm workers and Peruvian peasants are well over 90% indian blood.

    Canadian indians are usually well under that. Best Regards.
  23. Antonio San from Canada writes: Siren call, my apologies to you: I was just reading about a great Canadian, Mordecai Richler and this was said in the article: 'Says philanthropist Jack Rabinovitch, a friend since high school, “His real leaning was detecting and writing about bullshit.”
    That may explain my punch. LOL
  24. Libertarian Capitalist from Calgary, Canada writes: WoW! This is one of the most backward looking 'policy' articles I have ever read in the G&M! All heat and no light! And what a nut work Tom Kent is.

    No need to elaborate, I hope, but first and foremost we Canadians are primarily responsible for disenfranchising our new immigrants by way of our economic cartelization that almost completely negates their foreign acquired trade, skills, education, their new energy, high aspiration and productivity. what a nonsense it is, after all, to consistently ask new immigrants about their 'Canadian experience' but to fill their new hearts with a despair.

    To blame and threaten new Canadians is shameful! It is just about wearing your country's pride on the sleeve, it is a contortion of a meaningful immigration and economic reform policies that are badly needed for Canada's innovative and productive progress.

    Oh well, we finally got the Lou Dobbs of the North, eh! Tom Kent, that is.
  25. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: If immigrants are willing to stay here, work, obey the law, etc., they should be welcome.

    If they have silly customs: FINE, as long as . . . the silly customs don't involve IMPORTANT things. Examples: You can't beat or kill your wife. Is that sort of requirement asking too much ? NOPE.

    Also, if you have silly religious beliefs, you are welcome to 'enrich' the country with them (and there are long-time Canadians with their own silly religious beliefs, after all) as long as -- AGAIN -- your silly religious beliefs don't have an impact on anything IMPORTANT (see above: No wife killing or beating). Wear funny costumes if you want; the rest of us have the right to wear funny-looking clothing, too; what's the big deal ?

    If you can't abide by common-sense rules like these, then you should get the hell out of Canada.

    If immigrants abide by the above rules, and some 'traditional Canadians' have a problem with respecting the fact that some immigrants are different, look different, dress differently, etc., then THEY should get the hell out of Canada.
  26. A Maxie from Canada writes: Proud to be a Canadian for almost forty years.

    This country gives me endless opportunities--Educations, marriage, kids finish university, equity, early retirement, etc.etc. It is time for me to give back.

    Mr.hossein hajiagha, you may not find the right job but there are many other jobs available. You just have to be flexible. You live in Victoria, which is one of the best places in Canada. You are in Eden and don't know about it.
  27. Yussi M from Canada writes:
    Tom Kent sounds like a confused American wannabe. Unlike the American melting pot where everybody assimilates Canada is designed as a mosaic of different, separate comunities.

    The whole desire to 'strengthen the meaning of citizenship and the sense of Canadian identity' doesn't make sense in Canadian context. What's wrong about immigrants identifying themselves with their country of origin? It only strenghtens multiculturalism and that's the goal here. We don't want to become a copy of America and a melting pot.
  28. Ghabbar Singh from Chambal Forest, India writes: Mr. Justice...Bravo!!!! Well said!!!
  29. Ghabbar Singh from Chambal Forest, India writes: Jo Inglat...I love reading your posts...You make me proud to be a Canadian! BTW, are you married? ;-))
  30. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: School vacation in Peru is January and February, and most Peruvians escape to the beach to avoid the heat.

    Personally, I tend to take my family back to Canada every year for a month of intensive English courses and snowboarding, skating, etc.

    Surprisingly, they actually like it, as they dress appropriately.

    Please remember that in foreign countries, we have servants to do all the work, and the locals raised that way have no clue how to cook, wash, clean, paint, or even change a light bulb.

    There are actually 3 month basic survival courses for new immigrants to Canada.

    Not to worry, I earned every honour badge that the Boy Scouts offer, and it seems to have rubbed off on my family.

    But then, I also take them up into the mountains on my mining projects every year to see how they fare at high altitude, freezing cold, no heat, and horrible food.

    No complaints either. Best Regards.
  31. Dana Cruickshank from Canada writes: There is nothing racist about this piece as some posters have suggested. Too many people show up in Canada and expect just to benefit from us but give nothing back. Thats the most disgusting thing, not someone saying that something needs to be done about it.

    In my opinion, dual citizenship shouldn't even exist, it doesn't make sense. How can you be loyal to two countries at the same time?
  32. Le Bloc Canadien from Canada writes:
    Very well said.
    We have a big problem in Canada with people whose '..old loyalties are more present than the new.'
    We have a lot of immigrants whose real hearts are in fact still back there in their former countries, when their hearts should be right here in Canada.

    And our immigration process should be much longer than 3 years.

    .
  33. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Fun topic. I speak Spanish at home, but English in the office.

    If you want to learn a foreign language, learn it in bed.

    Show up at the office, and your English has to be impeccable.

    In my case, learning French was a complete waste of time, but it made learning Spanish, Italian, and Portugese easy since they are all 'Latino' (bastardized Latin) languages.

    Thanks to the 'High Catholic' church, I also learned Latin, which is about as useless as... Best Regards.
  34. Accounting Student from New West, Canada writes: First - Bert, well said, you took the words out of my mouth.

    Second - Hossein Hajiagha, if you are trying to be employed in the animation industry in British Columbia, cross the Strait to Vancouver, there are many animation and gaming houses who are always looking for staff. I know of a minimum of seven off the top of my head who are known around the world.

    Third - I myself am an immigrant to Canada, but have held my citizenship since the 80's thanks to the forethought of my parents. Canada has provided opportunities which the country of my birth would not have been able to. I understand where Kent is coming from, it's the old concept - 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do'. People have forgotten that their adopted country has different customs than that of their birth, they continue to try to live as they did in the old country, forgetting they left it for a reason. I'm all for remembering and honouring where you came from, but don't forget that's in the past. An immigrant needs to embrace the culture of their adopted country, they left their birth country for a reason, and unless they accept that, they will be in the same or worse position that they were in their birth country.
  35. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Who is the enemy number 1 of an immigrant?

    Another immigrant.

    This article is based on the not-so-complex idea that, more citizens who are loyal to Canada and feeling Canadian are needed.

    And the same article names a plenty of misbehaviours that should result in deportations, ceased citizenships, passport denials, stricter deadlines, 'satisfy the criteria or leave' threats, suggesting more taxation methods.

    The article says Canada is not a hotel.

    And I say, all these 'either-or rules' suggested, are good for the hotels. If you should mind your step each and every moment, you surely are not at home by definiton. I, as a Turkish citizen, have not thought even for once what not to do, in order that Turkey would not deport me. Citizen is NOT the description of the person to be deported upon falling into varying traps to be introduced by governments. Arithmetically speaking, you cannot have more of an item by subtraction.

    If Canada is not happy with the immigrants who remain busy with their source countries' affairs all along their lives, which I also find absurd and detrimental, the usage of nonsense terms such as 'Turkish Canadian' should be discouraged first of all. Ghettoising under the name of diversity should end. The term 'source country' should be less frequently used. Ranking each other on the basis of Canadianness daily practise, should not be exercised.

    And the mere existence of hossein hajiagha clearly demonstrates there is something wrong. If you cannot learn very good English in 13 years it is your fault but if you can 'preserve your origin' to the extent hossein did and can still survive in a country where the native language is English, it is the system's fault. As a 100% Turk who spent his entire life in Turkey, I guess I demonstrate that an acceptable English writing level can be achieved by any foreigner. It is all about goodwill and cooperation, nobody is less or more clever than the other.

  36. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: I have spent the past 14 years in Peru, but as a Canadian with permanent resident status here.

    My son was born in Peru, and I had his Canadian citizenship card issued within a week of his birth.

    To obtain Peruvian citizenship, I would have to renounce Canadian citizenship, and get a Presidential Decree to do so.

    Since this is unlikely to ever happen, I just suffer as a permanent resident, which gives me every right except to vote. Best Regards.
  37. Bernard Bomers from Canada writes: THANK YOU, Tom Kent.

    I have had the opportunity to follow you as an immigrant to Canada. And harbour immense amount of respect for your contributions to Canada in your various incarnations over time.

    I treasure your being alive and and still being able to contribute a vital assessment and debate about what matters.

    'Citizens' of convenience and opportunism, dual nationalism ones, especially, need to make choices.

    Paying the freight for opportunity through taxation is a minimal expectation I have.

    Those unwilling to observe a taxation 'noblesse oblige', whether through 'off-shoring' (Paul Martin are you listening?), or multinational 'CA, CFA, Taxation Fixers'- enabled 'Transfer Pricing' tax avoidance/evasion, currently sheltered by the Treasury Board, abetted by self-serving 'Professional Associations' should make a choice.

    Thank you Tom Kent for reminding us what counts: even the UK is beginning to impose minimum 'poll-taxes' on freeloading residents, at last.
  38. Robin Hannah from Canada writes: And for the love of Christ, please get over yourself Jim Shepherd. You can't stand Canada, you make that clear in every post, and you continually bleat about your better life now where you are. Please stop. We get it, already. You hate Canada! And you have a great life elsewhere! Good for you.

    I love Canada. Warts and all, and very much.
  39. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: Sorry that I never made it to Queen's Scout, but rather started to work at Dominion Bridge when I was 15 years old, and had to settle for a bunch of high pressure and stainless welding certificates instead.

    Spending my 18th birthday on a one-way flight to Thompson, Manitoba to go to work as an underground miner for INCO should come as no surprise either.

    Call me what you will, but I am a Queen's Mining Engineer, ditto for my father, who was also a Royal Canadian Engineer, and those that disagree have the right to eat pavement.

    Thus, the importance of doing push-ups and sit-ups every morning, along with my son, who suffers from similar poor treatment.

    Let them eat pavement. (Lucky I was not around when the Eagle of the Ninth was lost).

    However, this is what happens when your father drops dead broke when you are 12 years old.

    You tend to get on with things... Best Regards.
  40. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: I don't really have anything against the 3 year time limit the author recommends (though for practicality and visa student sake, 4 years might be simpler). I just don't really think that it will affect Canada drastically one way or the other, particularly with regards to our perception of national identity.

    You can see it on this thread (and every other thread on the GM), a simple conversation on immigration has been overwhelmed by the same old regional bickering matches. 'Hotel Canada' is related more to our weak system of governance than any particular immigration policy. As it stands today, the purpose of the federal government is to serve the provinces. Nobody (in any part of Canada) votes with one shred of national conscience. The primary concern is repeatedly: 'what will this gov't do for my province/region'. You can pick examples left right and center to back that up.

    So, why should our immigrants behave differently? Our national structure is inherently a hotel-like. If we look at the largest groups of self-identifiers on census reports, English, French, Scottish, German and Italian all outweigh Chinese as 'hyphenated-Canadians'. Why, after 100 years in many cases, would any Canadian refer to himself as 'Scottish-Canadian'? Or 'English-Canadian'? Statistics confirm that these Anglo-European identifiers remain our biggest source of hyphenated Canadians. In that light, Canada's obsession with it's 'multi-culturalism' seems misplaced.

    Canada's more recent waves of immigration have little to no impact on our national solidarity. I agree with much of what the author said, though turning recent immigrants into fifth columnists is an exaggeration. It is clear that Canada, immigrant or non immigrant, has little concept of self-identity. 3 year visa limits wont solve that
  41. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: For those that have been following my exploits in Peru over the years, it is highly unusual to see people leaving, and setting up mining engineering companies in third world countries, never to return.

    The only possible reason to resume Canadian residency is so that my son could attend high school and perfect his English in Canada.

    True, Canadian public education is far below Peruvian International Baccalaureate standards, and private tutors do not even exist in Canada.

    However, it is all about being a Canadian, warts and all.

    It is also about being stronger, smarter, and faster than the other guy.

    Sort of like being on a camping trip and being asked why you wear running shoes because of the grizzly bears...

    You cannot out-run a grizzly, but you can out-run your partner. Best Regards.
  42. yu-chih tseng from United States writes: To see new immigrants develop loyalty to the new country, they would need to integrate economically and socially. Mr. Kent's remarks do nothing to address either issue. Rather, it fans xenophobia and unfairly categorizes new immigrants as freeloaders. Shame on Tom Kent for making such comments. With such a person as deputy minister of immigration, small wonder that the immigration is a mess. We should celebrate and make maximum use of the diversity and the talents that new immigrants bring into Canada, and not deny or ignore it. One huge problem is that Canada doesn't really have the kind of jobs that can attract and keep educated and motivated new immigrants. There really aren’t many high-tech industry jobs for one. In the medical field, requirements for Canadian credentials put huge obstacle in the way of well-qualified doctors who would otherwise be able to start practice right away. Just read those stories where an engineer from India or doctor from Pakistan driving taxi or deliver pizza to support his family - total waste of talent. After living in Canada for 13 years and US for 6 years now, I really see how people living south of the border can develop a far stronger loyalty. It's because they feel that the country has given them a chance, and provided them with opportunities that they would not have otherwise. It's because they are made to feel that they belong, that they are not foreign, and that their entire self is accepted. Mr. Kent's statements and accusation of the new immigrants of being disloyal are doing the exact opposite, for they deepen the divide rather than bridge it. Instead of trying to be the un-America, Canada has a lot to learn about how its neighbor to the south can be so successful in integrating newcomers for more than 200 years. Maybe then it can finally cultivate its own distinct identity and not have to define itself in terms of another.
  43. Ghetto Dude from Istanbul, Turkey writes: Libertarian Capitalist from Calgary, this article attracted its own angry clientele and you certainly were not among them. It is appalling to see this many self-appointed deportation officers emerge, just to begin every sentence with 'get the hell out if...' like they do in each forum, no matter what the subject matter is. Do not think this is a 'Canadian experience' only: All the countries have their own militants who continuously tell people (that they call 'others' by this or that definition) to go elsewhere, and I guess more than half the population of the earth should be deported according to the 'host' population. The Turkish fascist party here has the official slogan of 'either love or leave' targeting all 'others', and gets around 15% votes. The moment you say anything against one local habit, is the moment you should leave, and even your 10 generations of Turkishness would not save you. Where to? Mars? Well, our volunteer bodyguards of the state have their own excuses: they are at the bottom of the educational pyramid. However, one should expect less of them in Canada.
    This is not the first extreme right-wing columnist I see in G&M. Is there not a point in time at which people retire over there?
  44. Mike Livingstone from Vancouver, Canada writes: Kent's ideas on having to become a Canadian citizen after 3 years of residence or get out is simply ridiculous. I know of no other nation that puts such stipulations on residents. I am a Canadian citizen and only a Canadian citizen and pay taxes only in Canada, but I have been a resident in another country for 9 out of the last 11 years. Residents aren't merely lapping in luxury, they're in effect ambassadors of their country to whatever country they happen to reside in. They shouldn't have all the exact benefits of a citizen perhaps, but to propose that they need to flip their citizenship like that -- imagine if it was like that for every country! You would have people flippently flipping their citizenship all over the place just because they had to in order to keep a job or something. It would become ridicule worthy! As a Canadian citizen, and a resident in another country, I firmly have my heart in Canada and will be going back soon. But if I had to change my citizenship to the country I was in we'd just have a lot more people in the world afraid to leave their borders or doing anything significant.
  45. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: J Mac: Canadians are actually about the most boring people on the face of the the earth.

    We tend to do the death and taxes thing with little complaint.

    It would be funny to see what would happen if I went to work for HudBay in Flin Flon.

    You might shorten your tongue a bit. Best Regards.
  46. Will Hoaccio from Toronto, Canada writes: well, the average smartness of this thread just tanked. Thanks flin flon. At this rate comment will be closed b4 dawn.
  47. Marcus Bingham from vancouver, Canada writes: Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: 'Rather than encourage Canada into the 21st Century global marketplace, Mr. Kent's piece proposes to drag us back towards the 19th Century nation-state. While the US does tax its citizens wherever they reside' the first sentence is right on the mark. however, the U.S. has tax treaties with many countries, including Canada. If i'm a U.S. citizen living and working in Canada, I pay my income tax to Canada, rather than the U.S. These kinds of treaties ensure that the taxes are being payed where the services are being utilized, and help to facilitate foreign exchange. Tom Kent's article is poorly written, and his ideas are half-baked. they would cause more economic problems than they would solve. wouldn't shortening the period to citizenship increase spending on rescueing Canadian citizens? what would be the bureaucratic cost of revoking people's citizenship when they live away? his proposals would be stifling for those whose professions often require them to move among countries (e.g. academia). ultimately, he's proposing a REDUCTION in freedom for ALL Canadians, not just those who move to Canada. i've always admired the non-nationalistic inclination of Canadians, for that is the future; those who cling to nation-states, are clinging to the past. Embrace progress.
  48. Derek Lambert from Edmonton, Canada writes: Man, so many people get so angry before they comment, these comment sections turn into arguements about the dumbest points including spelling and grammar. I would like to challenge anyone who has a really angry post to perhaps relieve their (sexual) frustration (with help from another site maybe) before commenting. Chances are you won't be as worked up about little things as much.

    As for the comment I was going make about the actual article:
    I think that Canada has a responsibility (as all wealthy countries do) to provide opportunities to people of less wealthy countries to live, work and develop in our society. If immigrants are only here even for a short term, they can help provide us and those in their home countries with perspective. If other weathy countries choose to be selfish, we should, in contrast, lead by example.
  49. mattias dahstrom from Stockholm, Sweden writes: As a Canadian living abroad, I was checking in as I do once or twice a year on Canadian news, when I saw this rather depressing article. Let me offer a few observations or question: 1) why is loyalty to ONE country so important..really, in this day and age.. For ex, I am Canadian (French Canadian actually, with roots going back to 1619 in Quebec, have dual citizenship now (European too), speak 5 languages and feel pretty much at Home (that is as a citizen, de facto in the following countries: Canada, US, UK; France, Belgium, Switzerland, Sweden, China, Hong Kong, Singapore,...all despite having only dual citizenship...does not mean I support their govts, just that I can easily feel like a local when in Houston or in Beijing, end of story). 2) One depressing part of this article and many more, is that Canada seems to be stuck in Slow motion or in neutral...same discussions all the time... From the comments, it comes as evident that the original (if we talk 1867) dilemma of forging a joint French-English identity has failed (140 years ago) and that boat is gone...too bad, don't want to discuss it...today we should probably have 5-6 cultures as primary bases in Cda 3)This brings me to the real question, which is embarrassing to me to explain abroad, as I never can : What is Canadian Identity / Culture / Distinctiveness ? So in the end: 4) Canada is only an administrative arrangement, not a country ? In that case, maybe the depressing thing is to realize that focuing on tax paying as the defining criteria is the only thing we have in common...not history, not culture, not language, not geography (when I still lived in Mtl, I really had more in common with Bostonians than other Canadians), etc. And what's my point...no point really just a few questions/observations...but one point I will stand firm by, the more immigrants we have the best it is and we need to make sure they can smooth in well, firstly with jobs, safety and all.
  50. Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru writes: I make no apologies for spending some 14 years in Peru as a Canadian.

    Peru now has 9% growth, low inflation, and a long standing mining history with Canada, going back some 50 years.

    A Canadian in Peru is about the same as a Canadian in Holland.

    We have done some amazing things in some pretty strange places.

    The locals treat us like Gods, but I tend to look at the local cemetaries first.

    There are far more Shepherds in the Lima Presbyterian Cemetary in Lima, than there are in the Toronto telephone book.

    Sorry for being so rude, but I am of the Celtic persuasion, and if you cannot figure ot the hairy legs and knobby knees thing, perhaps you might understand 'fix bayonetts'. Best Regards.
  51. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    Mr. Kent must be senile as who else would offer up such common sense.
  52. Abdul Jabbar from India writes: I see immigration as part of the ongoing anti-colonial struggle. as a 'Canadian' passport holder, I am using my passport to continue the struggle against colonialist forces. Immigration is a way for us to 'occupy' the 'occupiers' and in the process change society for the better.
  53. Emma Hawthorne from Canada writes: Tom Kent is right that citizenship needs to be restricted to good faith immigrants not those who merely want a Canadian passport and a retirement country with good benefits. I think Switzerland may have the best system in that it takes many years to become a citizen, children born there are not automatically citizens, and those who do not pull together with Switzerland or assimilate do not get citizenship ever. Since any landed person can become a citizen by waitng two or three years in Canada, I think that entire system should be revised. I would favour a seven-year citizenship track, or even longer, but think immigrants should be able to travel for some periods during that time. The keys to citizenship should be based on a real intent to immigrate and assimilate. The bar should be high enough to prevent later problems such as those plaguing Britain, France, etc. That said, immigrants and refugees should be able to access the services they need to make a successful and propserous transition.
  54. E M from Canada writes: Dual citizenship is often not a flippant choice. For many countries, including Canada, if you were born there, you're always a citizen and you can't denounce it. What that means is if someone immigrates to Canada, they may always also be a citizen of xxx country, even if they fled due to persecution and do not want to retain that citizenship. This article smacks of an inferiority complex to me. The issue is less that we have immigrants of 'convenience' and not patriotic immigrant-citizens, than we don't have a collective identity for immigrants to even adopt. Leaving a country and moving to another one - even to escape strife, is a life-changing, emotional experience. You can't change peoples' hearts and minds overnight, and nor can you mandate it. People often start to identify with their adopted country once they settle and have children. How many of us grew up with friends who immigrant parents, and they had real problems as the parents held on to values and traditions from their homeland, but the children were firmly Canadian. If you want immigrants to feel like citizens, which is more than a piece of paper, they need to integrate economically and socially. Allowing doctors and engineers entry, and then not having a smooth fast track certification process so they can work in their chosen field, isn't going to make that happen. I have dual citizenship. I took out my Irish citizenship a few years ago - yes, it's a citizenship of convenience. I wanted to work abroad for a few years, and this was a way to make it happen. After coming over here, I realised that Canada is my home. I want to move back, but the job I have here is so good, I would never get something like this at home. I will move back one day, probably for less pay and less career progression, but so I can settle and have a family. Ireland gets an educated worker in the boom time, and Canada gets someone who realised the value of her citizenship with international work experience.
  55. The Seeker from Toronto, Canada writes: hossein hajiagha from Victoria - you are a loser - it has nothing to do with the blue eyed man...dry your tears and find yourself a ticket back to Iran.

    Antonio San from Canada - thanks for the laugh - I've read your posts before and your consistent whining and negativity is a constant source of humour for me and my fellow Canadians. Go back to your wonderful country of birth, and post on your own newspapers about how 'terrible' Canada is.

    I don't understand why if you aren't happy in a specific country, you stay and whine about it like little schoolgirls? Why not just leave?

    Hossein, Antonio San - why are you here?
  56. otto von abbatoir from Los Angeles, United States writes: Ausland raus?? You've got a problem with Aussies there too? I thought that was just an Asian thing. Oi! Oi! Oi!

    The answer is simple: Mexicans. Millions and millions of Mexicans. Canada will find its identity when you can finally find a decent taco in that sad but beautiful land.
  57. Liz B from Ottawa, Canada writes: Where has Mr. Kent been living? I am a new arrival to this country, and the immigrants I see might not speak English very well but are busting their humps to survive and contribute. Does Mr. Kent also want them to be humming O Canada 24/7 and chugging maple syrup? Of course people remain attached to their countries of origin--did people who immigrated from Europe immediately cut off ties with their old countries? (If so, what are those St. Patrick's Day parades about?)

    I'm not sure about Canada, but I know many immigrants to the US in the 19th and 20th Centuries complained about the US and how hard life was there, and how much they missed 'home.' Moving to a new country, a new continent, is a wrenching experience. Usually it was the second generation that reaped the rewards and became patriots. This pattern doesn't change just because the people coming are from Asia and Africa instead of Europe.
  58. Oh Really from Canada writes: Actually, we should be thinking about less tax, not more. Part of our problem is that we are attracting too many poor immigrants ( http://tinyurl.com/5zu2wp ) and not enough wealthy ones. London UK attracts many wealthy people from the Middle East by agreeing to not tax their income in foreign locations. Canada will never never never never ever ever ever attract anyone really wealthy to live here because we insist on taxing his worldwide income. Imagine, we have zero chance to attract a rich guy to live here from a foreign nation. What a policy. And people wonder why the immigration economic stats are a disaster:
    http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/89-614-XIE/2005001/tables/table8.5.htm
  59. Mike M from United States writes: Tom Kent is correct. Canada asks too little of its immigrants. Perhaps it is a consequence of the world's greatest inferiority complex. It is not too much to ask immigrants to embrace the concept of their new country. Mr. Kent's obligations would be considered the bare minimum for a naturalized citizen of the USA. Paying taxes on world income is part of the fiscal exchange. If one wants the benefits of citizenship one should be willing to pay the fiscal price. One should also be willing to pay the emotional price. Why move to a new country? If it is not to embrace the principles then it is merely a matter of financial expediency. If you find the cultural and social norms of the new country in violation of yours, don't become a citizen. You are free to stay and work in many cases. One could stay in the USA forever as a 'Resident Alien'. Of course, you may (in the US you will) lose your automatic right to return when you decide to go back to the country of your birth. But, since you didn't accept the prerequisites of the culture you probably don't want to return. Right? It seems that paying Canadian taxes is a small price to pay for citizenship is such a great country. I'd be willing to pay it. Wouldn't anyone who values the right to be called a Canadian citizen?
  60. Rachelle W from Kirkland, United States writes: I am not 'proud' of anything that I have not personally accomplished... but it sure feels good to look at Canada and think there is hope in the world. Please continue to be different.
  61. P Jones from NB, Canada writes: No more free rides ... no free rides. If you come to Canada, you should be prepared to pull your weight. I'm not a bank machine waiting on all of the malcontents and needy that come to Canada purely for its benefits. If you come to Canada, you should be willing to assimilate, for the most part, and accept its values and obey its laws. No more free rides. There should be no dual-citizenship and if a first generation immigrant breaks Canadian law, they should be shipped back to their country of origin ... no questions asked. I support the CPC's desire to tighten up immigration. Only those prepared to contribute should be let in. For too long, since the days of Trudeau, Canada has been treated like a social engineering project. If it continues, it will be the end of Canada. What a shame taht would be.
  62. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: Jim, keep posting!
  63. E M from Canada writes: As far as I'm aware, anyone who works here has to pay Canadian taxes. If you are a citizen of Canada, and move away, you have to file an income tax return while you're away. If the country you're in has a tax treaty, you may only be taxed on the 'difference' between the two countries - so you're not double-taxed in the country you're in, and Canada. For those who think that by leaving Canada, people are getting a free tax ride, you're wrong. It's pretty complex, and trying to figure out what I need to do makes me want to cry. I also know that I might be dinged somehow when I return. People like me pay into systems and don't get a lot out of them. I have been paying into Canada since I was 15 by working on a full or part-time basis nearly continuously since then. I am university educated, I am healthy, not overweight, and I don't smoke. Because I have worked in the private sector with a variety of companies, it's up to me to have a pension plan - no one is doing that for me. I'm not in Canada right now, so I can't contribute to an RSP. Any savings that I accumulate here are subject to tax in Ireland, and may be taxed again when I transfer the assets to Canada - even though I didn't earn the money there. If there is anything left of the CPP when I retire, I will get docked for the years that I was away (as I should be), but I won't have retirement benefits from Ireland unless I stay there for a number of years. So for retirement planning, these are 'lost years' for me that I have to make up for privately. Oh and when I return to Canada, I'm not eligible for EI (as it should be), even though I paid into it for over 15 years before I left. I'm also ineligible for health care for 3-6 months after my return. So yes, a real free ride. WHOO HOO I'm living la vida tax-free loca baby.
  64. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Hear! Hear!

    Could not agree more with the title of this G&M article !
  65. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Jim Shepherd from Lima, Peru:

    A couple days ago, a poster from Flin Flon insulted me too, Jim...

    You would think that they would know better not to pick on former paper boys from Beaconsfield...

    However, you have to make certain exceptions for those from the birthplace of Bobby Clarke?

    Cheers.
  66. jomo wanjala from Toronto, Canada writes: Any limits on immigration are racist.
  67. P Jones from NB, Canada writes: jomo wanjala from Toronto, Canada writes: Any limits on immigration are racist.
    ____________________

    So it's open house at your place 24/7? Didn't think so.
  68. Dan Green from Palm Beach Gardens FL, United States writes: Wow this is an interesting article. I say that, as an American who has worked in Canada as a landed immigrant, many issues arose during my tenure. I will start by saying, it seems neither the US or Canadian government, seem to swift about this issue. Example the US requires a US citizen to file a tax return, no matter where they are at. Then you go through the complexity, of an exemption because of a US Canadian tax treaty. It only works however, up to a certain dollar limit. Net is, it is considered dumb by Americans. A US corporation planted me in Canada, and next thing you know 20 years past. Have two children born in Canada they are dual citizens. Point here is, I believe their are over a million Canadians working in the US. There is a large number of Americans working in Canada. The law says, each country will allow dual citizenship. I would agree, I found it strange, I was allowed to work, I guess forever, as long as I had a landed immigrant card. I witnessed many events, that were based on muticulturalism, my kids were drilled with that idea all through elementry school, and collegiate school. In conclusion, not saying it is right or wrong, the Canadian government fosters multicultralism, not citizenship. That turned me off from taking dual citizenship. I paid a lot of taxes to the Canadian government, both Federal and provincial, and rightly so, so of course I now have dual tax treaty pensions, Canadian CPP, and US Social Security. Point of all this is, when you experience this, it becomes apparent the two countries have many such stories. Chosing where your allegiance are is a private matter. Unless Canada changes its laws, multicularism will go on forever. That recent situation in Lebannon, was a shineing example. In the end, a great country, with great people, some with real roots. I call them Canucks, you can tell a Canuck, because they know all about Hockey, and Tim Hortons. I would also comment Canadians know more of us than we do of them.
  69. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    Very complex issue that truly needs to be disussed on a national level. So much has changed in the past years sinse Kent was in the Pearson government.

    Prior to the Trudeau years, and before globalization, it was much easier to come to Canada and succeed. Many from both Western and Easter Europe arrived here with nothing more than the shirts on their backs, worked hard, didn't spend on 'goodies' and bought property-prospered- and sponsored their family and friends.

    Then came liberal Trudeau and his failed plan of multiculturalism. Add to that, the recent arrival of globalization and the out-sourcing of once well-paid manufacturing/service jobs, and that makes for a disasterous situation.

    Many who arrived pre-Trudeau and from Europe shared in some form, religious, social values, and customs already present here-hence, the easier integration.

    Unfortunately, that is NOT the case today. It is not hard to realize that immigrants from the Middle East do not share the same religious backgrounds, customs, and social values of the west or eastern Europeans which causes more integration problems which results in isolationism. Can these differences be merged? Hmm..
  70. Kim Huynh from Montreal, Canada writes: As an immigrant and a naturalized citizen of Canada, I can sum up the issues suggested by this article as follows:
    1. If tax is a prerequisite to qualify a permanent residency/citizenship, the argument has missed the point: immigrants pay tax, abide laws etc, they should be allowed to stay as long as they choose, once admitted to Canada. The only difference is that they can't vote until they become citizen.
    2. The argument that Canada is nothing but a hotel of convenience to immigrants also biased at best and xenophobic at worse. This argument only stands in few exceptional cases, the rest is just garbage.
    3. What is the Canadian identity, would some one with an advanced degree in sociology and whose background is 'traditional Canadian' explain to me in simple term.
    4. I want to borrow the French term 'patrie' ( home land, fatherland) and 'pays' ( country) to prove the point: As an immigrant from a far-off land, you come here to adopt a new country to be come an immigrant and eventually a citizen, you still keep your original home land as your 'patrie', and there is nothing wrong with that considering there are many dual-citizenship in every country, Canada included.
    5. It took me 5 years to settle: have a home, a permanent job like the rest of the local folks. If you can not master a local language and get a job within 5-year period, consider yourself a failure and do not blame anyone else or even dare to blame the new country you have adopted.
    6. The latest outcry in Quebec about the culture thing is just an isolated incidence for politicians to prove they're are worth taxpayers money.
    7. Whether you like it or not, Canada will continue to need immigrants for years to come and the real face of Canada will dramatically in the process.
    PS. To Mr Shepherd from Lima: You boasted learning Spanish in bed and yet you chose not to learn French or Latin raises a question of
  71. Kim Huynh from Montreal, Canada writes: PS ( continued)..how well you master your language skills. One can easily learn Spanish, Italian, French if they have a sound understanding of Latin based aspects of these languages, just like the Asian languages whose radicals are based on the classical Chinese characters: Chinese, Japanese, Korean etc. Vietnamese language is special for its written language is Latin based while its other aspects( semantic and and phonetics) are close to that of the Chinese.
  72. R. Carriere from Maritimes, Canada writes:

    To follow up, immigration is also a huge 'political' problem for all the WRONG reasons. We have Partys who overly pander to different groups for short term votes, while completely disregarding how the positions and policies can either help or hinder Canada both in the short and long term.

    The Liberal Party is being held hostage by immigrant groups:

    ' Kris Parthiban of the Can. Multicultural Alliance, sent a strongly worded letter to Dion ...That is why we believe yo