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Wealth gap exposes fresh labour challenge

MICHAEL VALPY

From Saturday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 4:27 PM EDT 01/05/08

Immigrants, native-born youngest male adults will be identified by census as prime victims of 25-year trend in widening income inequality ...Read the full article

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  1. Carl White from Canada writes: Reducing the cost of living is a good approach. Cheap solar power and electric cars for the win.

    So too would be raising the minimum wage. It's funny how companies scream about this, yet are able to pay $15/hr and still be profitable in places like Alberta.

    Foreign ownership laws with teeth might help as well.
  2. Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: Karl Polanyi's 'The Great Transformation' should be mandatory reading for anybody seeking political office. Aspiring politicians should have to write a book review on it as a qualifier for office.
    The world has been down this road before, and if we forget we have only ourselves to blame.
    There is nothing more dangerous to society than a growing population of young people without hope and without prospects.
    The greatest danger comes from young people who are not needed neither for consumption nor production. Young people whose presence in society is irrelevant.
    We better take a very hard look at our 'more and faster is better' society.
  3. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: It's not as simple as which party happens to be in office of course, but if Canadians keep electing right-wing governments they can expect more of the same.
  4. William Wright from Edmonton, Canada writes: I couldn't agree more with Andre Carrel's comment on Karl Polanyi's seminal work. My understanding is that it was required reading for all would be economists from the time of its first printing up through the sixties. Why it is not on the required reading sylibus since is a mystery to me. 'Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it'. A thorough read of Polanyi's 'Great Transformation is living proof that all in this world is cyclical, and that what we are experiencing today is no different from what the Speenamham Act of the middle ages sought to remedy...that of the ethical and moral precepts behind the equitable redistribution of wealth.
  5. Journey Man from Ontario, Canada writes: The problem is the too many young men either drop out of highschool, or complete university with a useless BA. Both are great qualifiers for the minimum wage fast food McJob industry.

    To all young men 18-34: Get a skilled trade and don't be afraid to move and get your hands dirty. There are huge shortages, stable careers, and good honest (high) salaries to be made.
  6. J D from Canada writes: This is a common and troubling trend experienced by most nations around the globe, Canada is no exception. Time to take a proper look at the issue and start finding solutions.
  7. Larry Murphy from Canada writes: The data to be released Thursday by Statistics Canada will show median incomes falling for immigrants and native-born 18-to-34-year-old males who compete directly for the same entry level jobs that are increasingly characterized as low-pay, unstable and short term. Then what you do is work 2 of the lower paying jobs, building up your resume and constantly apply for the better paying job, kinda like most individuals coming out of University. Needing the time to go clubbing and on-line gaming was a big factor in your parent's home, but guess what, you have to grow up now. If the housing costs are too high, then stay home and put your money together to afford something to purchase instead of rent, or get together with a group of individuals and share the costs. The rest of society does not owe you an existance. What about the large exteded families from the Eastern part of the world who make it here. The parents and kids work, the elders watch the kids. School is the primary focus, and when enough money is made to purchase a business, the family runs the business and makes enough to purchase another. And all the 'home grown' kids use racist terms to explain this away. This is the learned stupidity we have been exposed to and are willing to subject to our kids. See the successes and apply them to ourselves. It's called learning.
  8. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree 100% with Journeyman, I graduated from uni with a BA and found myself working at a call centre in Halifax for $12/hr.

    I got tired of that gig so moved to Calgary, took a 3 month pre-employment course at SAIT and within 6 months, now make $32.

    I always thought of the oil industry as a bunch of yahoos working on a rig in the middle of nowhere for weeks on end. Now that I'm actually out here doing it, I can honestly say I wouldn't rather be anywhere else. The pay, benefits, opportunities for advancement and world travel just can't be beat.
  9. Brenton E. from Canada writes: We lag behind most western nations in education investment. We elect governments that have mandates dictated by the corporate world. High end jobs are moved off shore because the work can be performed for a fraction of what it would cost in the west. France appears to ne the only one willing to stand up for her agricultural community. The ditribution of wealth has become less and less advantageous for working class and middle class citizens. The most frustrating thing is that this distribution change has been evident for decades, countless stories of the growing gap, the increase of poverty, the shrinking of the middle class yet we (the people) do nothing.
  10. M T from Canada writes: Journey Man and Bluenose - You miss the point of the entire article.
  11. Pete H from Canada writes: Paul Thompson from Canada writes: It's not as simple as which party happens to be in office of course, but if Canadians keep electing right-wing governments they can expect more of the same
    Is one to infer from this post the the Liberal Party is right wing? They have more then dominated the ruling class in this countries history.
  12. 4Cryin Outloud from Canada writes: “Here we are in a country built on the expectation of economic growth,” Prof. Osberg said. “With the Canadian labour force way more educated than it was 25 years ago. With the baby boomers moving into their most productive years. With a whole series of policy initiatives, from the free-trade agreement to de-regulation, that were all aimed at improving productivity and the efficiency of market force. Lots of things going on that one would have expected would produce increases in real wages.

    “Yet if you look at what I call the middle 90 per cent [of Canadians on the income scale], there's not a whole lot of change. And if you want to talk about the bottom 5 per cent it's clear that it's a nastier Canada now than it used to be.”

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    First I don't believe the FTA and then the NAFTA nor de-regulation were conceived by those interested in improving the lives of blue-collar workers so what has come to pass is exactly what one could have predicted as an outcome of these things being foisted on Canadians. All of which came into existence with huge opposition to them and there still is for deepening them.

    Things may have to change from sheer demand for blue-collar workers once again but before that happens we need a new breed of economists. The new economist will have to understand how valuable sustainability is compared to non-stop competitiveness and productivity.
  13. reform alliance once a fringe always a fringe how many mirrors in picture room from Canada writes:
    blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: I agree 100% with Journeyman, I graduated from uni with a BA and found myself working at a call centre in Halifax for $12/hr.

    Journeyman should know that when gov.s really reported to the electorite (50 years ago) invented tech high schools which fed into apprenticeships or community colleges . Did business decide that immigration was cheaper and soon to be more focused than higher ed ?

    Have you done the math on your living standard @ $ 12 per hour vs. $ 32 ? ( not just cash flow)

    Toronto is Ont. high wage Mecca and friends in the same field have paid a price for the high gross .
  14. Woody Forrest from Out in the Sticks, Canada writes: From the article: 'And while the history of Canada has rested on immigration's contribution to the economic and cultural strength of the country, the census data raise disturbing and moral questions about the impact of admitting more than 200,000 immigrants a year who are struggling with steadily declining success to find jobs commensurate with their knowledge and experience, good incomes and decent, affordable housing.' So it sounds like the 2006 census data is going to show that we're letting in more immigrants than we can absorb. We really do need to cut back on our immigration levels. I have no problem saying this as I work mostly with immigrants who are making $80k plus per year. These are the type of immigrants (engineers) that Canada needs and I see them doing excellent work in the fields they trained for. So when I say cut back on immigration, it's not due to a bias or a phobia. It seems that we are letting in more than we need. I've hired lots of immigrants, so I have to believe many of the unemployed or underemployed ones are stuck chasing too few job openings. BTW, there's still lots of construction planned for the Oil & Gas and Nuclear Power industries. If you can find a marketable skill that serves those areas, you may find your income expanding. Avoid getting a BA and take a hard look at a trade or technology diploma.
  15. Michael McCarthy from Toronto, writes: There isn't a single verifiable statistic in this article ! This isn't news, its commentary. let's see some numbers before we start talking about the 'equatible redistribution of wealth'.
  16. Ryan Ginger from Ottawa, Canada writes: Why, during the past decade of unbridled economic growth, is it HARDER to afford housing? Why does it costs more, proportionally, to get an education? Why is it obscenely expensive to put kids through daycare?

    This intergenerational warfare has got to stop. Wrest social and economic policy away from the self-centered baby boomers.
  17. S B from Canada writes: Michael McCarthy writes: There isn't a single verifiable statistic in this article

    Agreed. Sometimes i wonder if I'm reading a newspaper or a fiction novel. The editors are obviously desperate for headlines that will sell papers via emotion rather than intelligent journalism.
  18. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    This article misses the point: immigraton is good because it depresses wages. Without a steady supply of immigrants services dependent on unskilled labour would be much more expensive.
  19. Liam Smith from Canada writes: Michael McCarthy from Toronto, writes: There isn't a single verifiable statistic in this article ! This isn't news, its commentary. let's see some numbers before we start talking about the 'equatible redistribution of wealth'.

    Do you dispute that there is a ridiculous gap in income between rich and poor? Do you dispute that inflation is seriously out pacing minimum wage increases? If you're missing this stuff than you're being (willfully) ignorant.
  20. Prairie Boy from Canada writes: Heard of affirmative action? 25 years? Sounds bout right.
  21. reveal the real from Canada writes: Ontario teachers pension fund exemplifies the outrageous greed that baby boomers have amassed at he expense of tax paying HONEST canadians. We have created a class of the most greedy people in the history of mankind. ABCP fabrication of laws to cover up humongous capital crimes,cover up of Gomery associated theft by our most powerful is just a few examples of why we are a very sick nation. Hear no evil ,see no evil. It makes me sick to see this new generation victimized by pompous creepy people! They have no political borders.
  22. Vic Hotte from Kettleby, Canada writes: This unfortunate scenario has been caused by unsustainable forced population growth over the past two decades by politicians who figured they needed an extra 250,000 votes per year, immediately or in the near future. This policy has served NEITHER Canadians nor immigrants. Appropriate jobs could not be created quickly enough, and globalized trade ensured that many jobs disappeared to other parts of the world. Canada has pretended that it exists in a bubble, separate from the forces of the world's marketplace. Immigration levels were kept high even during economic downturns. I feel sorry for the people who were encouraged to migrate here on the basis of false propaganda published by Immigration Canada, but the upshot is that few Canadians or immigrants have benefitted from this workplace 'churning', which has resulted in lower-paying under-employment, unemployment and temporary or contract work. Where do politicians fit in the 5% of 'richest Canadians'? Their incomes ought to be fixed in accordance with the average Canadian pay rate so they can experience the results of their policies just like average Canadians. That way, they will experience wage stagnation with no benefits, no pension plans.
  23. Kent Zehr from Beaverlodge today, Canada writes: Both Journeyman and Bluenose have it at least partly right. Too many people training (getting their BA) for too few jobs means employers can choose to be draconian. At the same time, too few people are training for the higher skills we are short of and which some of the immigration is addressing, engineering, medical, and other technical.

    But if you want the real culprits in the run away cost of shelter, you need look no farther than the federal governments (both Liberals and Conservatives) who changed CMHC policy to allow mortgages to people who in other decades would not have qualified. This has dramatically increased single family housing demand, which in most areas has not been off set by a dramatic increase in housing supply.
  24. Daniel Meyers from Canada writes: I don't think Valpy understands the rudiments of economics. I'm with McCarthy.
  25. Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario, Canada writes: M T from Canada writes: 'Journey Man and Bluenose - You miss the point of the entire article.'

    Sorry, MT, but Journeyman nailed it in his post.

    The opportunities are there for young men, women, and immigrants. These opportunities do not however come automatically to those highly educated but under-skilled graduates, especially of the universities (from anywhere in the world). Our economy also needs skilled trades, engineering technicians, nurses, and other trained people who are not afraid to get their hands dirty.

    Both of my kids graduated from university and couldn't find stable employment until AFTER they went to 'lowly' college. Far too much money in our country is being wasted educating people in universities with high expectations for careers that just do not materialize. Skilled trades need good people and these 'journeyman' can command good wages.
  26. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: M T from Canada writes: Journey Man and Bluenose - You miss the point of the entire article.

    Not if you've got sons & nephews aged 18-34. Why any young man who wants to earn enough money to actually have a life isn't working industrial construction or the oil patch in AB just baffles me. Apprenticeships here are FAR easier to get than in ON. We're importing pipefitters and welders from India, the Phillipines, Poland, South Africa, etc. and we're STILL seriously short of guys.
  27. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Liam Smith from Canada writes:
    'Do you dispute that there is a ridiculous gap in income between rich and poor?'

    Answer: This gap exists because the rich make the effort and take the risks needed to advance their financial positions. Many of the rich were not always so. They chose to make some personal sacrifices in order to get a higher education, make investments in time and money and seek out career advancement. Many of the poor only want to work 9 to 5; demand the right to party, smoke and drink; choose get biggest house/apartment/car they can afford rather than live under their means so that they have money to invest. Where the rich take pride in their accomplishments, the poor make excuses and blame others for their failings. It is all about the choices you make.

    Liam Smith from Canada writes:
    'Do you dispute that inflation is seriously out pacing minimum wage increases?'

    Answer: If one does not like the wage he/she is making the answer is simple. Find a better paying job. That is what I did.

    Liam Smith from Canada writes:
    'If you're missing this stuff than you're being (willfully) ignorant.'

    There is no golden rule that everyone must have the same income or net worth. You get from life what you put into it. In reality there is a symbiotic relationship between the rich and the poor. There are only 24 hours in a day so the rich need employees to have enough hands to make a business work. The poor are unwilling to take the risks and do the work to create and grow a business so they need the rich to provide a means of making money. It is not ignorance Liam, it is reality.
  28. Ed Lewis from Sanityville, Canada writes: Its time to close the immigration floodgates and start admitting ONLY people with skills that we need or can accommodate....otherwise we will end up like France who have let too many unskilled foreigners in who now live in ghettos on welfare....increasing population does not translate into economic growth if those people do not or cannot contribute.
  29. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Paul Thompson from Canada writes: 'It's not as simple as which party happens to be in office of course, but if Canadians keep electing right-wing governments they can expect more of the same.'

    When has Canada had a right-wing party? The American Democrats are more right-wing that our Conservative party. They are even more right-wing than the former Reform party.
  30. Keith S from Winnipeg, Canada writes: Our income tax laws continue to cater to the wealthy.

    And we lack the inheritance and gift taxes that all other developed countries have.

    Meaning all money is tax-free passed from wealthy generation to generation, while money earned must be taxed at a higher rate to pay for it.
  31. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: J D from Canada writes: 'This is a common and troubling trend experienced by most nations around the globe, Canada is no exception. Time to take a proper look at the issue and start finding solutions.'

    There is no issue. The people who become rich do so by taking great financial risk and working long hours and, in many cases, getting higher levels of education. There is no secret formula. If you want lots of time to pursue personal interests, travel the world, find yourself, or what ever then take it. But don't blame society because the guy who decided to get an education early, work 16 hour days 7 days week and risk financial ruin taking out great loans to start a business or invest got rich while you were away.

    What I find interesting about the article is how it paints immigrants as victims. Many of the most successful people I know are immigrants. They came from cultures that realized that if you don't work you don't eat. So these people came to Canada; worked 2 or 3 jobs; shared a house with 2 or more families and eventually saved enough money to start a business. Now thy work 7 days a week and are quite wealthy. But you know what, they earned it and they don't blame society for the sacrifices they had to make to get it.

    Get over yourself. Stop blaming the world and take responsibility for your personal choices.
  32. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: M T from Canada writes: 'Journey Man and Bluenose - You miss the point of the entire article.'

    M T: The article is little more than commentary that supports making excuses for failure and blaming others for one's personal choices. I would like to see an article that speaks to the personal choices the poor make vs. the personal choices the rich make. What is important to members of each group? What your choices are is not important, however, every choice has a cost. If you choose to be family person who insists on making sure that your kids don't spend any time at daycare then your career is going to suffer. If you choose to be a work-a-holic they your family life will suffer. It is really a simple formula. But the big difference is that the rich don't blame others for the cost of their choices. The poor, on the other hand, do blame others.
  33. John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: Wealth gap? We in the colony are simply following the lead of the Empire. While the fawning sycophants of the status quo proclaim that 'the rich make the effort and take the risks needed to advance their financial positions.' In reality an examination of Canadian wealth data provides definitive proof that the 'effort' and 'risks' taken consists largely of being born into a wealthy family. Despite extensive efforts to hide the facts, inherited money is the largest basis for current wealth in Canada today.
  34. Keith S from Winnipeg, Canada writes: 'Answer: This gap exists because the rich make the effort and take the risks needed to advance their financial positions. Many of the rich were not always so. They chose to make some personal sacrifices in order to get a higher education, make investments in time and money and seek out career advancement.'

    I agree that numerically many of the rich were not always so.

    However, most do come from wealthy backgrounds.

    Few of the wealthy have made any meaningful sacrifices, not the way miners, forestry workers, fishermen, construction workers, and manufacturing workers sacrifice their health and sometimes their lives over decades.

    Much of the work the wealthy actually do do includes working to get corporate welfare, working to get tax breaks, working to get the tax burden shifted to what is left of the middle class, working to suppress employee wages, and working to prevent corporate governance laws and securities trading laws being strengthened.

    The wealthy work more effectively for their own benefit than the middle classes.

    They put significantly less effort into each dollar they gain and retain after taxes.

    The wealthy 'waste' a smaller percentage of the fruits of their effort to benefit society.

    The wealthy are more efficient to in retaining the money that passes through their hands for their own use.

    Instead, the wealthy work to get the rules changed to their advantage. They are far more active in lobbying politicians than the middle class.

    If members of the middle class were to put more effort into influencing their MPPs and MPs and putting forward their own cases, the situation would be more balanced.
  35. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: J.C. Davies from Canada writes: 'This article misses the point: immigraton is good because it depresses wages. Without a steady supply of immigrants services dependent on unskilled labour would be much more expensive.'

    What I find troubling is that this article, and others like it, speak of minimum wage jobs as though they are a career choice. A career that depends on the base wage increase for the individual to improve his/her standard of living. In reality minimum wage jobs are the entry point into the Canadian labour market. If you want to improve your standard of living then you must do the work to get a better paying job. I started out in minimum wage labour back when it was $3/h. Now I am a highly paid IT professional with investments and rental properties. It took time and effort but I did it. I am not a rocket scientist so if I can do it so can anyone else. And just so there is not misunderstanding, I did not come from a rich family. I was raised by low-income, single mom. So I did this on my own steam.
  36. Paul Thompson from Canada writes: Well Pete H, much of the Liberal party's success in modern Canadian history can be attributed to Pierre Trudeau's analogy of a skilled canoeist: You paddle a little to the left, a little to the right, and go with the flow. Should the working and middle classes and the poor raise enough hell for a change, the political parties will see which way the current is flowing and act accordingly. Still, the problems and opportunities posed by the modern day globalized economy are fiendishly complex and will require better leadership and a more involved and informed citizenry than we have at present.
  37. W W from Canada writes: Immigrants arrive between 18 and 34. No one expects to excede and avarage income right upon arrival or even within a few years. Another factor is that young Canadians are finishing their education often in their late twenties. After that it takes at least a few years or even more to establish yourself in the industry.
  38. W W from Canada writes: Those who became relatively rich in Canada did not inherited their wealth. And as a matter of fact immigrants as a group have been making more than an average Canadian until recently.
  39. Cosmo Spacely from Canada writes: I wonder how many slaves I can own when masses of unemployed workers start raoming the landscape?
  40. The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: John Doucette from Manotick, Canada writes: 'In reality an examination of Canadian wealth data provides definitive proof that the 'effort' and 'risks' taken consists largely of being born into a wealthy family. Despite extensive efforts to hide the facts, inherited money is the largest basis for current wealth in Canada today.'

    Hay John: FYI. My mother was a single parent who never completed high school and was forced to raise my brother and I in projects as she worked min. wage jobs my entire life. The only thing in inherited was a funeral bill because her estate was in a deficit balance. I chose to forgo many things I would have like to do in order to get higher levels of education and career advancement. I have not spent near as much time with my kids as I probably should but at least my wife is there for them. But I make not excuses. I blame no one for the sacrifices I have made. I am now a well paid professional and I am able to ensure that my kids will have a good life and will not have to start life with $30K of student loans like I did. The rich to put in the effort and do take the risks, whether you see it or not. Very few people I work with come from rich families yet they are doing very well. That kind of kills your assertion.
  41. Carl Baldin from Calgary, Canada writes: In Calgary, there are many, many 6000 Sq. Ft houses popping up in the suburbs, and prices are still far too high, especially for these houses (nouveaux Riche) - $1.5m!

    This affects the other housing sectors and the 'average Joe'. A 1000 Sq ft bungalow in an average 40 year old area is $450K....at least for now. Most Calgarians and people can't afford that!? Why are they so much?

    As the Article states, these stupidly big houses for the rich have brought the market up - the realtors are no help either.

    I say that we are in for a taste of a correction or even a more socialist Government if these income disparities continue. Many of these oil dudes are make disgusting amounts of money (2-3 million/yr with options)while other hard working Calgarians make $50 k a year......time will tell what happens.
  42. jerry johnson from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'And while the history of Canada has rested on immigration's contribution to the economic and cultural strength of the country, the census data raise disturbing and moral questions about the impact of admitting more than 200,000 immigrants a year who are struggling – with steadily declining success &8211; to find jobs commensurate with their knowledge and experience, good incomes and decent, affordable housing.'

    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    So much for the 'need' of immigration!
    Canada is fast becoming a two tiered society: public employees with job security and wages that place many of them on the 'rich' list and private sector employess who for the most part suffer from chronic job insecurity and low wages. Contrast this with the TTC article. See how much a TTC ticket booth monket makes and compare with the general malaise of the working population.
  43. Mike Michaels from Toronto Expat, United States writes: A few of the posters make an interesting point, that a Canadian University education is the next best thing to worthless. Of course, a few undergraduates in engineering can find decent jobs at over 40K, and even some nurses can find full time work. However, most other undergraduate programs deal extensively with feelings and feminism, two things which have zero application in the world of work.

    Not only do more young folks need to enter the trades and resource extraction industries, but the cost of university should be made dramatically more expensive, in all programs but engineering and nursing, to reduce demand and eventually supply, of a commodity that employers neither want nor need, the university graduate.

    And for those of you that wonder, I have a J.D., so I've spent more time than anyone should have to in a University setting, some of it in a real American University. (many of the better Canadian universities are akin to clown colleges, not to name a London institution)
  44. sheila valentine from Canada writes: I agree with 'Vic' as well as 'Choices'.Those who have the grace grit gumption and guts will do well those who don,'t won't.The problem with this generation that I see is they must create their own jobs not expect others to do it for them.Education in high tech takes high tech creative movers and shakers to make their own way not wait for someone to put it there for you.Many who did create jobs are now aging/retired so up to you.This generation better realize they must evaluate supply and demand areas and to streamline their focus because no product will sell if there is no demand.Stop complaining about what you don't have and make it happen no one stops you but you.'Choices' VERY well expressed indeed and I hope those who need to wake up and smell the coffee do.
  45. Randal Oulton from Canada writes: >> jerry johnson from Ottawa, Canada writes: Canada is fast becoming a two tiered society: public employees with job security and wages that place many of them on the 'rich' list

    They also have the second tier of healthcare denied to the rest of us: dentalcare, eyecare, and pharmacare.
  46. stephen mcintyre from Langley, BC, Canada writes: The gap between rich and poor has been widening for decades, yet there is little resistance to that trend, either in government policy or in the social will.

    Why is that? Have we chosen this trend or is it being orchestrated by forces beyond our control? Would a sane, cohesive society allow such a shift when the potential for disastrous consequences is so clearly illustrated in world history?

    Equally puzzling is the loony side-step toward the sexual exploitation of young girls, jeopardizing decades of gain in women's rights. What is to become of ten-year-olds who shape their identities while watching TV's brutal 'Girlicious'?

    Our culture appears to be caught up in a self-destructive period akin to male adolescence where it simply cannot choose what is good for itself. You and I might agree that extreme inequities in wealth distribution and prepubescent whore culture are not good for us, but really, where is the resistance to it?

    I am hoping these phenomena are just a phase from which we, as a society, can move on. By this, I mean, not simply by a return to traditional values, but through a rediscovery of ideals for the common good and a recovery of the ability to act in our collective best interests.

    To the billionaire wannabes and sweet-sixteen hopefuls for that birthday-gift boob-job, I say, 'Just say no!'
  47. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Disappering middle class, declining haves, and sprouting have-nots in the West, within a generation Democracy will return to its Athenian roots where Demos the 5-10% monied males ruled, the women, slaves, plebs, and helots toiled.

    Democracy requires slavery, real or virtual.

    US had real slaves, Europe virtual, in the Colonies. European Failed colonialists e.g. Germany, Italy, and (Spain and Portugal who lost them early) ended up Fascist.

    After WWII West with monopoly on Capital and Technology was Demos 5%, the rest of the world Plebs 95%.

    Now India, China, et al are refusing to slave, so Middle Class is dying in the US and in the West.

    Western choices: institute virtual internal slavery or abandon Democracy for another system.

    Former seems to be happening as the rich become fewer, and poor proliferate and drop out of decision making.

    Barely 22% participated in Ontario elections last year. Tomorrow it will be less.

    Back to the roots. Athens or bust.
  48. Kevin Cochrane from Virden, Manitoba, Canada writes: I hate to sound like a grumpy old man but what choice do I have? It's been my experience throughout western Canada anyways, that a lot of this age bracket are quite content to stay in low paying jobs simply because there is consequently low demands and little sacrifice on the employee's behalf. I haven't seen many that are willing to make the sacrifice for better education, moving away from friends and parents or willing to give up weekends so you have a 'disparity' develop.
  49. L.B. MURRAY from Canada L.B. MURRAY from Canada from Canada writes: Andre Carrel from Salmo, Canada writes: Karl Polanyi's 'The Great Transformation' should be mandatory reading for anybody seeking political office. Aspiring politicians should have to write a book review on it as a qualifier for office.
    _________________________

    Unfortunately, Mr Carrel, I doubt that our politicians, aspiring or sitting in the HOC, will take the time to read ''The Great Transformation''

    Lest We Forget.... The ''solution'' used to be to send all those young men as ''cannon fodder'' in all those useless wars.... It seems that the US has used that despicable ''solution'' in Vietnam and now Iraq...

    ...
  50. Luke R from Toronto, Canada writes: It wasn't long before some ignorant baby boomers started their drivel about 18-34 year olds. Larry Murphy started the charge identifying clubbing as the primary culprit of this disturbing census data. Obviously, closing down the nightclubs is the logical step for governments to take to stem this criss. Thankfully, Canada has millions of savvy baby boomers that can offer these types of solutions to set our country on the path to success. God bless Canada!
  51. Steve Not an Alberta Redneck from Kimberley BC, Canada writes: This has been a long time coming. Back in the 80s and 90's, employers were running scared so they instituted feminist friendly hiring and promotion policies. Where I worked, I noted that the females they hired top work on my projects were usually not as effective as the males and discussed this with the manager in charge of hiring.

    Meanwhile I noted that these women were often supporting their husband. 'He got better marks than me, but he won't find a job' was the quote with the implication being that he was lazy.

    What they didn't know was the 'facts' as relayed to me from the guy doing the hiring.'I have to turn down so many top notch young male candidates. Our policy is to hire 50 % female but they comprise only 14% of the applicants.

    What I noted during my years in school was that if there was a field that promised opportunities, within 2 years, the classes would be packed. However, when the process is stacked against men, as its been since the late 70's, the word gets around. I'm sure that this is understood by most in junior high school. Hence the total lack of interest in school by the vast majority of young males.
  52. dave s from Canada writes: Didn't Marx predict all of this was going to happen? Viva la Revolution!

    More seriously, studies have shown that great inequality creates distrust, envy, health issues, breaks down social conformity etc. Countries such as Finland have used progressive taxation to keep the amount of inequality to a more reasonable level. I have no problem with the top 10% getting richer, but they should most definitely carry a larger burden tax wise, and be responsible for giving more back to society. Next we need a more progressive government who is willing to stand up for the marginalized or threatened, and put in place the safeguards necessary to prevent the wage exploitation that is mentioned in the article.

    Higher taxes!! More equality!! Labor Standards!!

    I would vote for that.
  53. JN Smith from Canada writes: The problem is the cost of housing. The idea of home ownership is unrealistic for most young people especially out west. If your salary is less than $100K, too bad for you. This isn't about young men being lazy. Economic realties have changed in the past few years. The average Joe can't go to school, get a decent job, and buy a home unless you're willing to over extend yourself on credit. We're just starting to see this. The entry point for housing is now $300K where I live and it's just going to get worse.
  54. JN Smith from Canada writes: dave s - higher taxes would hurt the working poor and middle class even more. Your money for food, shelter, etc would shrink. What's the point of working if 50% or more of your salary goes to tax?
  55. Brian V from Canada writes: The choices we make decide our place in life from Canada writes: Hay John: FYI. My mother was a single parent who never completed high school and was forced to raise my brother and I in projects as she worked min. wage jobs my entire life. The only thing in inherited was a funeral bill because her estate was in a deficit balance. I chose to forgo many things I would have like to do in order to get higher levels of education and career advancement. I have not spent near as much time with my kids as I probably should but at least my wife is there for them. But I make not excuses. I blame no one for the sacrifices I have made. I am now a well paid professional and I am able to ensure that my kids will have a good life and will not have to start life with $30K of student loans like I did. The rich to put in the effort and do take the risks, whether you see it or not. Very few people I work with come from rich families yet they are doing very well. That kind of kills your assertion. I mostly agree with your comments. Most immigrants I have encountered, have accomplished lifes little blessings like you have. God bless them and you for your worthwhile, hard won victories. I did the same as you in 1970 worked at $3/hr thro engineering school and did reasonably well. Retired today. Having said that, today we live in a different world. I had some stressful times but compared to what the kids go thro' today, you understand what I am saying, I don't think I would like being a kid and growing up now. And thinking about immigrants coming here, giving up all they had without realising what they are getting into, wow! You, me and people like us are few and far between. I am sorry to say. Like you say 'The choise is ours' but the choises are diminishing. Like the old saying goes, 'It takes money to make money' most of the time. Is still revelant if used correctly. So 'What do we do?' And the answer is in many of the posts above.
  56. P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: The problem is that tax cuts are benefiting the wealthy more than the poor. The problem is that social programs are getting cut more and more. The problem is that more and more of the disposable income of lower wage earners are going toward shelter. The problem is that the government cares less and less about people at the lower rung of our society. And Harper is accelerating this.
  57. Moving Faster from G'ville, Canada writes: Isn't it funny how wages haven't essentially changed since the 1990's for most of the middle and lower classes, but the top 5% have experienced record increases in salaries/renumeration through 'right-sizing' and 'down-sizing' businesses prevalent through those years? When are these people and governments going to realize it's better to have several hundred people making a few dollars more an hour, than 5 making 50 or 60 dollars more an hour? I'm not talking communism or anything approaching that, but a slightly more equitable distribution of wealth will prevent a more dangerous environment than the one the we're heading for now, and the article doesn't even factor in growing costs such as food and fuel price increases that hit the lower end first, wait until that happens to see how quickly things turn less pleasant than what we are currently experiencing. One possible solution is for companies to take people that may be a 75% fit for a position, and train the other 25% of the skills needed, rather than complaining that there isn't enough workers that fit 95% of the skills they seek, and pay them enough so they don't jump ship after 1-2 years? What most companies do not realize is that each position is largley unique to some degree, and to seek the perfect fit will take some time due to this uniqueness. But then again, it's easier to criticize these concepts rather than enact even a small portion of them, and it's easier to go along with the status quo than to break out of it. Good luck with that.
  58. k p from Montreal, Canada writes: Ed Lewis, let me reassure you that Canada does try and chose skilled immigrants, but time and again we hear of employers and professional organisations refusing to recognise those same qualifications; On the one hand we need to protect Canadians from 'Mickey Mouse' qualification, but there again, our own universities churn out large numbers of kids with literally worthless degrees.

    One of the 'national' Characteristics' that Canadians have is that they work to live; that's all very nice, but the world does not owe you a living; don't complain when other people end up eating your lunch.

    'Our income tax laws continue to cater to the wealthy. B/S, It's the wealthy who pay most of the taxes.
  59. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Housing hasn't really increased in cost all that much. We bought a house 17 years ago in Calgary for $200,000. I could sell it today for perhaps $535,000. That sounds pretty good, but looking more closely at the economics tells a different story.

    In those 17 years we've paid about $30,000 in taxes on the property, and spent $10,000 in routine maintenance, plus $50,000 in renovations. So that means the value has not quite doubled over the 17 years, giving a rate of return (by the 'rule of 72') of less than 4% per annum.

    GICs return better than that.
  60. curious kid from Kitchener, Canada writes: All these polemics are no more than rich vs. poor, the have-nots vs. the haves. I agree with the argument that the choices you make determine your position in the world. Those who are intelligent can see the choices and if they have gumption, can take the course of action necessary to produce the job and income they want. All the palaver about immigration, political party, minimum wage, etc. is to a great degree irrelevant.
    And please don't talk about injustices done to immigrants. They came here for a better life and they very certainly have it.
  61. Guitar Player from Vancouver, Canada writes: 'Democracy requires slaves'...what utter nonsense. We're seeing symptoms of a large and complex problem, and many of the comments here seem to suggest that there are one or two or three things that could be done, and suddenly all will be well again. A few folks seem to believe that a shift from right to left, or from centre to left, will magically make things better as well. Whatever changes may be necessary or advisable, or longed for by the Canadian people, nothing is going to happen as long as our muddled and benighted parliamentary system allows politicians to feather their own nests, see to their own pension plans, fight their own partisan wars (about which they will later crow to the electorate), and generally use the legal fictions they themselves have created for self-absolution on those many occasions when they've royally screwed all of us. We're seeing multiple symptoms s of the conduct of a moribund political system running amok. After years of special interest groups encouraging 'the tail to wag the dog', why should we be surprised at the current state of affairs?
  62. Moving Faster from G'ville, Canada writes: 'Our income tax laws continue to cater to the wealthy. B/S, It's the wealthy who pay most of the taxes' Thanks k p, I guess after getting EI for a few months, and withdrawing 25K from my RRSP to live on for many more months, and landing a $20/ hour job for two months, I have to pay 5K plus in taxes;that makes me wealthy? Maybe in your world, not in mine.
  63. jerry johnson from Ottawa, Canada writes: P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: The problem is that tax cuts are benefiting the wealthy more than the poor. The problem is that social programs are getting cut more and more. The problem is that more and more of the disposable income of lower wage earners are going toward shelter. The problem is that the government cares less and less about people at the lower rung of our society. And Harper is accelerating this.

    -----------------------------------------------

    The high taxes are what keep us in this state! All we do is redistribute income from the middle class to the poor without allowing people to accumulate real wealth. The 5% high earners are probably mostly public servants anyways. You've got the CEOs and all others in there but they are more like 0.01% of the total so why concentrate on them.

    A person that accumulates wealth through entrepreneurship is prone to re-invest the capital and therefore spread the benefits around. The ones that either inherit or make money through shaddy deals just put the money under the matress. Examples: 1) Terry Mathews who did increadible things for Ottawa (Mitel, Newbridge, March Networks, venture capital for tens of deals, etc.etc.etc.) Without him the high tech in Kanata would be quasi inexistent! 2) I remember reading about the billionare (Canada's youngest it seems) that bought the most expensive condo in Toronto. He made his money 'buying' some steel smelter in .... Ukraine. Here he wants to buy.... the Toronto Maple Leafs. Value for Canada? Close to nil!

    It is Terrys that we badly need and we will not get if we tax the crap out of them. IMO we need to reduce taxes that entrepreneurs can make as much as they can. In the process, we all win!

    So I can only hope that Harper will cut taxes, although I am not holding my breath considering how attached a large portion of the Canadian Citizenry is to the Communist Manifesto.

  64. Rick C from Canada writes: Paul Thompson from Canada writes: 'It's not as simple as which party happens to be in office of course, but if Canadians keep electing right-wing governments they can expect more of the same.' Which of course runs counter to reality which is the gap between rich and poor has widened predominantly under Liberal gov'ts.
  65. Rick C from Canada writes: Who cares anyway? The poorest people in Canada are not poor; they just aren't rich. The ability to buy plasma tv's, nice cars and go on vacations to Mexico are not basic living requirements.
  66. Rick C from Canada writes: GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: 'Housing hasn't really increased in cost all that much. We bought a house 17 years ago in Calgary for $200,000. I could sell it today for perhaps $535,000.'

    Yikes. Considering most houses that currently sell for $535,000 in Calgary today were only worth $200-250K 3 years ago means you basically gained no equity in your house for 14 years?

    Something doesn't seem right. Did you buy at the top of bubble in '89 or '90?
  67. Asian Canadian from Calgary, Canada writes: So the census says - Even with pickier employer and less opportunities for new graduates and immigrants, the government is still happy issuing tens of thousands of working visa to temporary foreign workers with lower pays. I suppose the employers are laughing all the way to their banks. They successfully made up the story of 'labor shortage', as they have been crying for the past 50 years and will continue in the future. The big money always wins.
  68. Syed Abbas from Toronto, Canada writes:

    Guitar Player: Greetings

    ' ... Democracy requires slaves ...what utter nonsense.....'

    The cream rises to the top.

    If Canada can not rise to the top in the New World Order, forget about Democracy here.

    The Others will be the Demos and have Democracy, while we in Canada their Plebs toiling for them.

    Democracy is a luxury only Demos can afford. Set your guitar aside and take a trip abroad - China, India, more educated people with greater skills working for 1/10 of Canadian wages. This gravy train can not go for ever.

  69. jerry johnson from Ottawa, Canada writes: Moving Faster from G'ville, Canada writes: 'Our income tax laws continue to cater to the wealthy. B/S, It's the wealthy who pay most of the taxes' Thanks k p, I guess after getting EI for a few months, and withdrawing 25K from my RRSP to live on for many more months, and landing a $20/ hour job for two months, I have to pay 5K plus in taxes;that makes me wealthy? Maybe in your world, not in mine.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    MF I am sorry about your predicament. Based on what you describe I venture to say that you are categorized as 'middle class' by the canadian socialists. After all you did no go on wellfare hence you are not 'poor'. So they will want to tax you, togehter with the 'rich' (which in Canada is defined as anyone making over 80K LOL - I get a chuckle every time I think of the non-sense of this definition!).

    The previous poster was factually right. In Canada the 'rich' (defined as above) suffer the brunt of the income taxes.

    The main issue for private sector working people in Canada is that salaries are taxed the same irrespective of the job security. A person in the private sector that makes 80K today might make EI tomorrow and still pay the 'rich' man's rate in year 1 while struggling to make ends meat in year 2. This is blatantly unfair considering that a lot of his first year taxes became wages to a person in the public service that does not suffer from the same economic uncertainty.

  70. GlynnMhor of Skywall from Canada writes: Rick C from Canada writes: 'GlynnMhor: Did you buy at the top of bubble in '89 or '90?'

    Given that I said the house had been bought 17 years ago, that question ought to be answerable with a little arithmetic. That was the same year I sold the previous house, of course.
  71. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: 'We're importing pipefitters and welders from India, the Phillipines, Poland, South Africa, etc. and we're STILL seriously short of guys.'

    As noted above a big part of the problem is all of the young people who don't want to get their hands dirty with real work. The useless BA syndrome has been discussed. Perhaps even worse are those 20-somethings who prefer to stay in mom's basement playing video-games?

    I know this skilled labour importing is happening Sweeney, but why do we have such difficulty with inter-provincial labour mobility? Why can a welder from India show up on the door step and get work when a welder from Ontario can't. I just don't get it.
  72. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: k p from Montreal, Canada writes: 'let me reassure you that Canada does try and chose skilled immigrants'; 'our own universities churn out large numbers of kids with literally worthless degrees.'

    I agree, but why is it OK for us to import doctors, nurses, engineers, and high paid welders from overseas, while our Canadian educated kids are for the most part going to end up working at Starbucks with their BA in Political Science?

    THIS IS NUTZ!
  73. L.B. MURRAY from Canada L.B. MURRAY from Canada from Canada writes: -
    Our Med School graduates are lured to the United States in record numbers...

    Check out the stats out of McGill in Montreal, Toronto, anywhere...

    So.... we spend gazillions of tax dollars and as soon as it's time for the ''Internship'', a lot of our Med School sons and daughters are ''lured'' to California, Florida, Arizona...

    Sorry, but that's a fact and it's a huge problem since if we count on doctors from foreign countries coming to Canada, they then have to face almost unsurmountable obstacles....

    As a previous poster put it: this is NUTZ!

    -
  74. Roop Misir from Toronto, Canada writes: Journey Man from Ontario, Canada writes:

    The problem is the too many young men either drop out of highschool, or complete university with a useless BA. Both are great qualifiers for the minimum wage fast food McJob industry.

    From K-12, a university education is marketed as the only way for students to land that dream job--like believing as the only way to salvation!

    The irony is that for most of the jobs, a high school diploma, with a few specialized courses (trades, business) plus apprenticeship/Co-op will suffice just fine.

    Somehow, young people don't want 'joe' jobs, the ones that are actually in demand.

    Thanks to immigrants for taking these 'crumbs' jobs.
  75. Randy D from Canada writes: No surprise males in a certain age range are taking the bulk of the hit considering the Jihad against men, particularly white men for the last thirty plus years. That is certainly not the only problem but a huge one nonetheless. Just look at all the newsreaders on TV these days. People are far more interested in what they look like than hearing the facts. Couple that issue with the general laziness of our society today with very few people willing to get their hands dirty and you just know there is gonna be plenty of pain. With the women taking all the high viz jobs and men wanting to be computer experts no one is around to fix the plumbing, extract the minerals or bring the trees to market, jobs that actually create wealth. If they can't be computer geniuses the next best thing is a government job that doesn't create anything other than a huge expense and often a myriad of rules which hinders those actually contributing to society. What a mess.
  76. Sweeney Todd from Oilberta, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes:

    I know this skilled labour importing is happening Sweeney, but why do we have such difficulty with inter-provincial labour mobility? Why can a welder from India show up on the door step and get work when a welder from Ontario can't. I just don't get it.

    There are LOTS of guys from all over Canada out here. Well, not many from QC, because they've resisted joining the inter-provincial 'red seal' trades program. If somebody has a journeyman red seal trade ticket, they're in. It's just that easy. Lots of places will take a provincially licenced journeyman, (or even unlicenced, with proof of time in trade) and help them prepare/write their exam here. That's what they've done with the guys from India & the Phillipines that I've worked with. Lots of fitters & welders from northern ON here. Their mills closed, and here they are.