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Nova Scotia writes off $2.1-M student debt

MICHAEL TUTTON

Canadian Press

Latest comment posted at 12:20 PM EDT 28/04/08

Cabinet order takes $2.18-million in bad debts off the books ...Read the full article

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  1. The Oracle from Caiman Islands, Canada writes: "Tory government stopped providing student grants"
  2. kothar rumbleg from Canada writes: You ain't seen nothing yet! With the coming rampant inflation, the increase of OIL an deverything related to it. People's debt levels are going to climb. Not just using credit cards and loans to pay for tuition, it will come to that to pay for life's necessities!
  3. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: One of the key reasons that the student loan default rate is so high is because the graduates of so many of these university programs can't secure stable employment.

    Governments should be redirecting our post-secondary educational funding to programs that produce graduates that the economy NEEDS, not just what students WISH to study. Tuitions in programs such as engineering, medicine, nursing, and especially the technical trades and apprenticeship should be lowered, and tuitions in the humanities, where graduate success rates (i.e., finding a job after graduation) are extremely poor, should be raised.

    Colleges and polytechnical institutions for example are generally undervalued and under-funded, while subsidized tuitions have encouraged far too many young people to enter undergraduate and graduate programs in the arts. For example a student studying engineering or health technology at an Ontario college, is only grant funded to approximately 70% of the levels of a student studying political 'science' at a university. At the end of the day, we cannot continue to subsidize these inequities.
  4. C K from Vancouver, Canada writes: Hmmm.... the phrase 'moral hazard' comes to mind.
  5. Vote NDP in the next federal/ provincial election from Toronto, Canada writes: Tory government in NS stop providing student grants. THis is further proof that Conservatives have no intention of addressing the issue of post secondary education whether Ontario in the late 90s, Alberta and now NS.

    Post-secondary students should vote NDP if they want quality of education to improve and costs to come down. This is the only party that would do this.

    If NS can write off bad-debts then I encourage all Canadian provinces to write off ALL Student debts immediately.
  6. Two Sense from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Good job on writing off the Student Debt! Awesome job of teaching accountability and responsibility for your actions! Now, if you can just teach these young adults how to rip off the Welfare System and avoid paying personal income tax you will really have accomplished something! By writing off the debt you have solved the wrong problem and created another one for the Students! Congratulations, well done!
  7. Billy Bob from Saskatchewan from Canada writes: "Governments should be redirecting our post-secondary educational funding to programs that produce graduates that the economy NEEDS, not just what students WISH to study. Tuitions in programs such as engineering, medicine, nursing, and especially the technical trades and apprenticeship should be lowered, and tuitions in the humanities, where graduate success rates (i.e., finding a job after graduation) are extremely poor, should be raised."

    Yup.

    "Good job on writing off the Student Debt! Awesome job of teaching accountability and responsibility for your actions! Now, if you can just teach these young adults how to rip off the Welfare System and avoid paying personal income tax you will really have accomplished something! By writing off the debt you have solved the wrong problem and created another one for the Students! Congratulations, well done!"

    Yup.

    You take the loan - you pay it back. Can't afford to go to school then flip burgers.
  8. Buenaventura Durruti from Canada writes: It's good to see that anti-intellectualism is alive and well in Canada. I'm sure Canada would do quite well to become a nation of burger flippers. I'm amazed that anybody could ever think that a diversely educated populace could ever be beneficial. Who needs critical thinkers when you could just have a bunch of automatons.
  9. Raymond P from Canada writes: Actually Paul the unemployment rate for graduates is far less than those without degrees. A degree doesn't guarantee a person a job in their field but their likelihood of attaining employment is greater. If after high school a person chooses to flip burgers, they will stay flipping burgers. Post secondary education is the key to improved lifelong health, higher income, and graduates also show a far lower crime rate and incarceration rate. Post secondary education is a win-win situation that governments and most people don't realize. It's time Canada invested in the future by improving education funding.
  10. Brendan Caron from vancouver, Canada writes: It looks good on Nova Scotia. I am sure thast the tas(k)x paying, indebted, Canadians are breathing a sigh of relief. Score another one for the Canadians.
  11. Hendrick Larose from Calgary, Canada writes: 2.18 rounds to 2.2M not 2.1.
  12. Gord Lewis from Canada writes: Mike Tipping, president of the Dalhousie University Student Union, said in a recent interview that . . . "That's a huge amount of impact on students' credit ratings, I'm sure, from these bad debts”.

    Loans should only be forgiven for graduates who can pass a remedial English course. Assuming the reporter got the quote down correctly (not a given, that's for sure), perhaps Mr. Tipping needs to repeat that course . . .

    Nevertheless, congratulations to NS. The chronic underfunding here in ON has me considering putting my kids up for adoption to a nice family in QC for the duration of their higher (-cost) education.
  13. Paul Wallnutz from Ontario, Canada writes: Raymond P from Canada writes: "Actually Paul the unemployment rate for graduates is far less than those without degrees."

    Buenaventura Durruti from Canada writes: "Who needs critical thinkers when you could just have a bunch of automatons."

    It is always interesting how the so called 'intellectual critical thinkers' are so selective in their reading of a post like mine that challenges their point of view.

    Canada has extreme shortages of certain skills and knowledge, particularly in the medical, technical, and skilled labour areas. There is no shortage of humanities grads, and too many already can't find work. We cannot continue to pour money into programs that do not lead to employment just because people WANT to take these programs to extend their adolescence for three or four years. We also have to consider the NEEDS of industry, business, and society (e.g., health care). The universities should have to prove that their graduates are successful in finding careers, program by program (just like the colleges) before we throw more money at them.
  14. Mac - GLG from Canada writes: Poor dears - Maybe less party time and more work time for these hard done by students.
    The age of entitlement may well be over.

    If mom and dad don't pony up -

    Get it like I did - work for it.
  15. Uncle Elmer from Canada writes: I resent many of the posters who claim that students are unable to pay back debt. I am in the 5th year of a joint Cultural Studies and Erotic Literature Degree and I plan on making $80,000 per year as soon as I start working. That is my right.
  16. William Haworth from Minneapolis, United States writes: That government provides easy credit for education increases demand for education, and consequently, increases in the price of that education as education, like everything else in the universe, is finite in availability.

    Consequently, a solution to rapid tuition increases (really, hyperinflation due to debt-driven money creation) is to decrease the availability of student loans and other forms of student funding to a level that reflects the true risk of default. This sends an undistorted price signal to potential consumers about the real cost and value of education.

    Microeconomics was the most important and valuable course I have ever taken, and coming to understand the law of scarcity its greatest lesson.
  17. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: I remember ordering some grub at the McDonalds on Spring Garden Road last year and the guy serving me had a X-ring on. Some nice ring though
  18. Richard G from British Columbia, Canada writes: I'm tired of hearing about poor university students. I graduated in 2006 with a commerce degree (read, the most expensive degree to earn at UBC) and I did it debt free, without significant help from my parents....how is that possible you ask?....I worked hard over the summer, worked 10 hours while taking full-time courses and budgeted my money accordingly.

    It is possible. It requires a little sacrifice and some dedication. If you are unwilling to make some sacrifices, take on a part time job while you study and be smart with your money then you deserve to be saddled down in debt. It makes sense to help people who work hard, not lazy-a$$es who think the world owes them something.

  19. Richard G from British Columbia, Canada writes: university is a privilege and NOT a right
  20. janfromthe bruce from Canada writes: Ignore the winged-monkeys, they like to dominant every Globe board with their no-nothing and generally ignorant comments that are only entertaining to themselves.

    That said, one would think that the reporter would get a quote from the official opposition which happens not be the the liberals but the NDP, as the House arrangement is 22 Tory's, 20 NDP, 9 Liberals, and 1 independent.
  21. Chelsea Stevens from Canada writes: Some of the comments here make me ill. To insinuate that the reason students take out loans is because they're spending their time partying rather than studying or working is incredibly ignorant. I am incredibly hardworking, and thanks to that I have a full scholarship (worth roughly $5000 a year) for the duration of my program to the university I'm attending so long as I maintain a 3.5 GPA. Currently, I have a 4.0. However, I've still had to take out student loans. I come from a lower-middle class family where both of my parents work. My father, who is 68 and not fully retired, still works part time, and my mother works two jobs in order to help send me to school, to send my brother to school, and to still maintain their own household. I work 20 hours a week while doing a full course load, budget my money as carefully as I can, but it's very hard to make ends meet when you're living on your own and unable to work full time without taking out a loan. If I hadn't, I wouldn't be able to go to unversity. Especially coming straight out of high school without $7000 just lying around to pay for residence fees in my first year, which aren't included in my scholarship. Do I wish it were possible? Yes. But sometimes it's just not. I've had to take out smaller loans each year, but I still need them. Some students are just unable to do it, but that doesn't mean that all they're doing is wasting their money on liquor and parties. I know many students who take their studies seriously. That said, debt forgiveness is a step in the right direction. The provinces do NOT communicate with the national program, which is incredibly inefficient. I believe that there should be a hybrid grant/loan system directed at students from low income families and/or high grades. An education is a right, but I believe post-secondary is a right that is earned. For those who've proven themselves as successful students, give them grants. For the rest, at least give them a shot.
  22. Yellow Submariner from Canada writes:

    Makes me wonder why I teach my kids to pay off their loans no matter how difficult, and I forego things myself to assist them, when they'll end up, through their taxes, paying off the loans of defaulters too!
  23. scott thomas from Canada writes: Student debt began to skyrocket in the mid-nineties, when provinces across the country, with the general exception of Quebec, began to cut back on education (as well as health, welfare and so on.) Most of the critical posters on this blog I suspect went through university prior to this, and don't understand the debt load transferred onto students through these policy changes. I graduated - at the top of my class - with over $30k worth of student loans, and I worked hard all summer, and TA'd during the school year. I knew when ten years had passed since I graduated when my monthly payment of $280 ended. I'm sure glad that your tax cuts were downloaded onto me, with the added insult of removing my right to declare bankruptcy on these debts if I needed to. Not that I would have dreamt of it, but you old cranks kept that right to yourselves. Must be nice to have it both ways.
  24. The graying pundit from Ottawa, Canada writes: Writing off student debt is a mistake. These are taxpayer dollars that are being written off. Dollars that you and I paid. This is tantamount to state sanctioned theft. How shortsighted of the government of Nova Scotia. Maybe the the government can see its way clear to write off the taxes that I owe too. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander.
  25. Richard G from British Columbia, Canada writes: I'm sorry Chelsea, debt forgiveness is NOT the right direction. No one asked these people to go to university (or take out loans). besides, it would be incredibly unfair to people who work their asses off if some people got debt forgiveness and others got nothing (since they did not take a loan). Not to mention the people who did not get the immense privilege of going to university in the first place. Why should overly privileged kids get hand-outs to go to university (which they do anyways, since we actually pay about 1/3 of the cost of tuition) when other, less fortunate people get nothing?

    A solution to this would be to take fewer courses and do your bachelor's degree over a 5 year period (for example).

    I know that you are arguing for 'fairness', but it would actually be unfair to pardon student loans. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick, but I think your argument is fundamentally flawed

    PS... I come from a single-mom household...I dont think background necessarily matters.
  26. Bruce Haddad from Toronto, Canada writes: This Langille woman who has managed to amass $40,000 in student debt is simply an idiot, it would be impossible for any responsible person to rack up that kind of debt while they are in school if they work part time during the school years and full time during the summer. I am currently in school and let me say clearly, school is affordable. You may not be able to afford expensive new clothes or a $100 a week beer budget but if students live cheaply, and earnestly try to cut non essential expenses student debt is by not means a serious obstacle. There is no reason students should not be able to work 10 hours a week during the school year, and during summer if a student works full time and lives with their parents or some relative, they should be able to bank at least $5000 for the next years of school. I'm looking to graduate with about $20,000 in student debt and I've spent every single summer away in Quebec, this summer I'm going to France. If people can't find jobs decent enough to pay off their student debt than they should think twice about going into university in the first place. If some idiot student goes and gets a degree in visual arts, amassing $40,000 in student debt in the meantime and cannot pay it off afterwards, thats their problem, let their credit suffer. School is a serious investment of time and money, it's not a game.

    I'm sure that this cry baby's $40,000 dollars in 'student' debt was racked up at the bar and at the mall to a great extent.

    That school is unaffordable is becoming a widely held myth in Canada.
  27. The graying pundit from Ottawa, Canada writes: Scott Thomas, let me respond to your post. I graduated in the mid 1970s. It took me eight years to pay off my student loans. But I paid them off in full.
  28. Ken Woodwords from Ottawa, Canada writes: They should not be written off but extend the term to ease the burden of payment. If one can not pay a $50 per month with a university degree there is something wrong with the degree or the person.
  29. Puk Natcha from Victoria, Canada writes: Student loans are a fiasco all over Canada.
    I've long thought that uni-educated people represent the future of a country and over their working lives will generally pay more tax.

    Wouldn't it make sense to invest in the future and loan people the $ to complete degrees, providing they do it within a certain time frame. Once graduated and working they could pay the loans back in different ways, maybe:
    1) 25 year amortization, no interest
    2) Interest only, the rest of your working life or som period
    3) Put in several years' service (like RMC grads enter the military)in parts of Canada that need teachers, professionals, community workers etc.

    Turning the files over to the banks who care only about the bottom line is stupid, just penalizes people at the outset of their working lives.
  30. Dude Rancher from Toronto, Canada writes: The headline says $2.1 million, yet the body of the article says $2.18. Anybody know why they rounded down?
  31. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Paul Wallnutz:

    Thought you might be interested to know that according to the CMA:

    "NPS reported that 32% of Ontario students expect to face debts of $80,000-$120,000 by the time they complete medical school, while 14% expect the debt load to reach $120,000-$160,000. Outside of Ontario, those proportions drop to 26% and 9% respectively."

    BTW Glad to see some Canadians giving this issue some serious thought instead of simply posting prejudice based vitriol...

    Cheers.
  32. Angus S Miskers from sunny Victoria, Canada writes: Richard G you are pretty out of touch for a UBC grad. 1st of all, your commerce degree cost a lot less than other degrees at UBC . eg a DMD degree costs over $250,000 now. Second of all, you say it would be unfair if former students have their loans written off. Well I personally know of former UBC dental students who had over $30,000 written off as 'remission' (then they went on to start at earning $150K/yr immediately, up to $500K 7 years on!). Yeah, its unfair to those who don't get the remission or writeoff, but some students work hard enough, and contribute so much more to society, to justify it.
  33. Angus S Miskers from sunny Victoria, Canada writes: BTW this writing off of student loans has been commonly done off/on for decades. My brother even had $4K written off back in the late 80s - after he found out he was one of few that were conscientious enough to be making the payments religiously.
  34. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: To the poster who graduated in the mid 1970s that is bragging about paying off his student loans...

    For all that we know you could have gone to McGill University where the tuition at the time was free...

    Have you looked at what has happened to university tuitions in Canada in the last few decades?

    Check the tuitions at Acadia University, for example!

    Cheers.
  35. P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: I can see a lot of people without any understanding of students or what they go through. The biggest problem with the student loan program is not the money but the interest. A friend of mine, who graduated a little while ago was informed that he would pay nearly $800 a month for over 10 years...and their loan was not that high. As for those that believe that you, and people like you, should decide which direction a student goes, I am sure that there is some communist country that could use your insights (unless you are already too close-minded for them). And for those fortunate to get a good paying job while going to university, shut your trap. You have even less an idea of what most students goes through. It is nice to see that you managed to get a decent job, maybe it will make up for the lack of a heart you seem to express.
  36. Richard G from British Columbia, Canada writes: Angus,

    you are right (and you make good points)...I should have said that a commerce degree at UBC is the most expensive per credit bachelor's degree at UBC...actually, Pharmacy might have a higher per credit cost (I forget). Grad studies (medicine, MBA, dentistry etc) are obviously much more expensive. my bad. I was comparing my per credit cost to Arts/Science undergrad per credit cost.

    My point was that a bachelor's degree is affordable...call me close-minded, but you will be very hard-pressed to convince me otherwise.

    I agree with what Paul Wallnutz (and you) wrote in that money should be put into study programs that will benefit the country (health etc). I disagree with repaying student loans on undergrad study programs because, as I have said, I do not think they are unaffordable. Grad studies, I think, can be viewed differently, and repayment schemes should be looked at based upon merit and how much a person will give back to society.

    you make good points
  37. Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario, Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax: I am also impressed with Paul Wallnuts post. It shows some original "out of the box" thinking on this issue.

    Instead of just cutting the spending, he has suggested directing the $$$ towards our problem areas to encourage people to study in fields where there are shortages. Why haven't politicians picked up on this concept? Elect that man!

    And, as you have correctly pointed out, here we are with a huge shortage of doctors and nurses across the country, and our response? Jack up the tuitions and make it more difficult for young Canadians to enter these fields, while governments focus upon stealing medical professionals from poorer countries who need them at home.
  38. Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario, Canada writes: On the nursing shortage issue, my wife was RN until she retired recently. In Ontario until recently a registered nurse was a graduate of a 3-yr college program, but now they have to have a 4-yr university degree. My wife claims that this has done nothing for that profession, and if anything, the nurses graduating today are worse in nursing skills than before. I suspect that it is because of the universities using "professors", instead of practicing nurses with experience teaching the students. This push towards expensive university educations in all fields not helping our country, and is actually making problems like a shortage of nurses worse.
  39. Peter Lefaivre from Edmonton, Canada writes: While I may empathize with the debt load some students leave school with, a major part of the problem is lifestyle.
    The instant gratification generation needs to realize that they will have to make sacrifices in order to have manageable debt, but many insist on having it all now, while at university, and then blame it all on high tuition.
    Those that do not pay back their student loans are cheating the rest of us.
  40. Chad Boulanger from Whistler, Canada writes: School a valid waste of time. You pay to learn then you have to work to pay for what you learned, say goodbye to a decade.
  41. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario:

    The term, "nursing skills" is changing dramatically in Canada.

    Because of our physician shortage in Canada, many nurses such as "Expanded Role Nurses" are now taking on increased duties that were traditionally the domain of physicians including diagnosis and medication prescription... If I lived in a Canadian community where the majority of my medical care is going to be provided by such a nurse, I would want them to have, at least, a few years of university and a degree....

    Emptying bedpans and charting vitals, on the other hand, can be done by just about anyone...

    Cheers.
  42. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: I graduated from SMU in 2006, moved to Calgary and after 6 months here, started paying $2000/month on my loans. I knew full well the debt I was going to incur and upon realising how difficult it would be to pay it off by working in Halifax, made the move to greener pastures.

    The government shouldn't be writing off student debt and students shouldn't be taking out 10K/year for degrees in basket weaving.
  43. Shaun Adamson from Waterloo, Canada writes: Peter Lefaivre from Edmonton, Canada writes: While I may empathize with the debt load some students leave school with, a major part of the problem is lifestyle.
    The instant gratification generation needs to realize that they will have to make sacrifices in order to have manageable debt, but many insist on having it all now, while at university, and then blame it all on high tuition.
    Those that do not pay back their student loans are cheating the rest of us.

    -----------------------

    I disagree with some of what you say. Many young people like me are graduating with student debt. I am lucky enough to have been in a program with co-op terms to pay down some of the debt. But after graduation, we need to find jobs. For me, I have a job but it requires a car to get to. These days, you can't really find a reliable used car under $8000. Also, insurance rates for us are between $200-300 per month. Gasoline prices are quite high. Toss on apartment rentals and you start to see the high cost of living for a new graduate who already has a debt burden.

    There are many young people out there who live beyond their means, but please do not overgeneralize. Not all of us young people are living beyond our means and we know how to pinch pennies.
  44. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Peter Lefaivre from Edmonton, Canada:

    I think that you may be generalizing from a small subset of Canadian university students...

    I graduated with a few degrees after 12 years of University education. While some of my classmates bought their Porsche before graduation, the vast majority of us still haven't paid off our Subarus after working for a decade ... The banks were always happy to lend to us...

    Living as cheaply as possible during one's university days and afterwards would be great advice for life, however.

    Cheers.
  45. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: blue nose from Calgary, Nova Scotia:

    What are your thoughts on whether the Nova Scotian taxpayer should be subsidizing education for students who leave the province...

    Cheers.
  46. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario:

    Sorry, I missed your 10:00 PM response...

    I have been impressed by some of Wallnutz's ideas... I would also vote for him except I think his campaign advisor would probably force him to change his name...

    Think of the field day that the journalists would have.

    I have never met him, but he might also need a make up artist since good ideas will only get one so far in Canada these days...

    Cheers.
  47. J P from Halifax, Canada writes: I graduated in 1998 with 60K in debt combined from undergrad/grad school. I did this while working full-time (40 hr/wk) the duration of my studies and still had the debt. Given my economic background ( bottom 5%) without student loans, I couldn't have ever attended university. It's possible to work and still graduate with debt. I just made my final $1,000 payment, which I can say was a very good feeling.

    More relevant to this conversation is the message this sends to students. We've created perverse incentives where people have access to loans to attend university, but no incentive to enter fields that may give them the skills to repay the loans.

    Lower the barriers to entry into those fields that require more people (I'm looking at you Medicine, the greatest union ever), and increase them into fields where the demand is lower (most of the Arts field). Give people incentive to participate in the demanded fields, and remove them from those that don't need it via higher/lower funding. People are generally smart... they'll follow the money.

    As for writing off any loans: that's a part of doing business, but it shouldn't be the government writing them off, but the banks. They get the rewards, but not the risk. This creates an asymmetry in the risk/reward profile and us, the taxpayers, bearing the financial burden. Moral hazard rears it opportunistic head.

    In the end, you took money,pay it back. If this means refinancing the terms, do it.
  48. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: JP from Halifax writes:

    "Lower the barriers to entry into these fields that require more people (I'm looking at you Medicine, the greatest union ever)...."

    Sorry, JP --

    You're barking up the wrong tree with that part of your post...

    In fact, the Canadian Medical Association is currently calling upon government to take action to increase the number of doctors in Canada... Feel free to join in...

    http://www.moredoctors.ca/

    It would be more appropriate to blame the limitations on the current number of physician trainees in Canada on an action taken by Ontario's provincial government in 1991...

    I won't mention any names, however...

    Cheers.
  49. nick oliver from halifax, ns, Canada writes: who wants to spend 4 years in uni learning to be a nurse only to have the provinces treat them like crap once they're working in the system? it seems like every time their contracts are up for renewal here, they have to strike to get the government to cough up just a cost-of-living wage increase. if this is one of those skilled professions for which we need people badly, we sure don't act like it.
  50. Doug Edwards from rural, Canada writes: Easy enough for the NS government to write off these loans. Just get some more transfer payments. Ticks me off to be paying for student loans in another province.
  51. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Doug Edwards from rural, Canada:

    Or Nova Scotia just might consider taking more revenue from their own offshore oil and gas....

    Ticks me off to be subsidizing the education of students from other provinces when an awful lot have no intentioning of paying anything back to this province...

    Cheers.
  52. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    BC hasn't had grants for 20 years.

    In your face.
  53. alan smithee from Canada writes: hmmmmmm......my comment didn't go through..... free speech is alive and well in the globe corporate fiefdom I see.......
  54. C K from VANCOUVER, Canada writes: The commentary on the article has (over threads) elided 2 separate economic/policy problems: 1) the mis-allocation of resources (student time & creditor $) to programs that do not allow for feasible repayment of student loans; and 2) the wisdom of the NS government writing off these loans. The problems are related, of course: problem 1 is necessary but not sufficient for problem 2 to emerge. Problem 1, as I see it, is a result of market failure, the price of education not accurately reflecting its market value. Note, first, that tuition freezes or subsidies only exacerbate the distortion of the price signal. Second, the suggestion that some a central planner should alter the price schedule to better reflect current labour market conditions misses the point that central planners (i.e., politicians & civil servants) tend to be very bad at estimating what labour market conditions will be in 3-4 years when graduates hit the market. The scheme we require is one which somehow links student choices on entry to university to market conditions on their graduation 4 years later. Lastly on the debt cancellation issue: This policy also exacerbates the mis-allocation problem because it frees people from the economic consequences of their choices. It invites moral hazard and is also hard to defend on equity terms. Quebec's low tuition fees have largely failed to ensure proportionately higher attendance by lower SES students (Stats Can had some material on this). One suspects, then, that the debt cancellation is largely (albeit not purely) a regressive transfer from the poor (who tend not to attend university) to the middle classes (who tend to attend university). For this reason, tuition freezes are also quite regressive. My own experience was to fund my BA through work and scholarships, and to go to grad school in the US only because I received full funding.
  55. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Shaun Adamson from Waterloo, Canada writes: These days, you can't really find a reliable used car under $8000. Also, insurance rates for us are between $200-300 per month. Gasoline prices are quite high. Toss on apartment rentals and you start to see the high cost of living for a new graduate who already has a debt burden.
    ---------------------

    Sure you can. In southern Ontario there are tons of cars for sale that will pass a safety check and cost less than $300. So you have to change cars every 2 or 3 months, you expect to save money and not be inconvenienced?
  56. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sharp:

    What's in my face? Have you finished shovelling yet?

    Many of the comments on this thread are absolute foolishness... Not to sound cliche, but students are Canada's future...

    This is a move to allow University students (BTW many of whom are not from Nova Scotia) to be able to continue to attend school and become productive citizens who contribute to Canada. Read Chelsea Steven's 8:33 PM post, for example...

    You want to tell Ms. Stevens that she is going to have to give up her university education and her 4.0 GPA because everybody's too cheap and scared right now to even think constructively about Canada's future.

    I think that this is a good move for our Progressive Conservative Government in Nova Scotia, and I haven't been overly complimentary of them in the last couple of years.

    Cheers.
  57. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Just for future reference...

    If some of the Globe Insiders used a language that the rest of us, plebes, were able to understand, it would be much appreciated....

    I only went to university for 12 years... I don't want to have to go back so I might understand some of these posts...

    Cheers.
  58. A C from Canada writes: I think one way of helping students pay back their loans is to extend the interest free period after graduating. I'm not saying that we forgive and forget the debt - extending the interest free period would help them help themselves.

    Students should be given 5 years after they finish school before their loans start to accumulate interest (this should be for both university and trades graduates). That way all the money they put towards the loan will go against the principal.
  59. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    R Miller?

    Never in "your" face.

    But seriously?
    BC hasn't had grants for over 20 years.
    I know.
    I was there when they cut them off.
    It then came out of my pocket.

    But I paid it off.

    Grants are a bad idea and I think Nova Scotia is right in eating the loss.
    There is no sense in throwing good money after bad.

    Socialism sucks, buddy.

    It always has.
  60. Michael Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    And?

    Just to keep things in perspective.

    You'd be lucky to get 2 or 3 houses in Victoria for 2.1 million.

    Could we keep the municipal news in the municipal section, please?
  61. Shaun Adamson from Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi, I don't consider having to change vehicles every 2 to 3 months being "reliable" cars, as was what I indicated in my original post. Please read, as I am aware that cars can be bought cheaper. They are over 20 years old, with 300,000 plus kilometers on them. The amount of traveling I need to do for my new job does not allow me to buy unreliable old cars that should be in the junkyard already.
  62. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax: In 2007 the NS gov't gave students who graduated in 2006 and remained in NS a $1000 tax credit. At the time, I was making $12/hr at Minacs. I took advantage of the extra tax money to buy myself a one way ticket to Calgary and haven't looked back since.

    Now I can't drive in downtown Calgary without seeing a NS gov't "Come to Life" encouraging me to move home.

    Oh I miss the green and the woods and streams and I don't like cowboy clothes
    But I like being free and that makes me .........
  63. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sharp:

    Extremely valid point @ 2:18 AM !! Conceded !!

    We should keep this in perspective, but I did give a moving speech at 1:21 AM, eh?

    Agree that Socialism sucks, and may I remind you that Nova Scotia is a mere 2 seats away from an NDP government as Ontario was in 1991...

    That should really screw this place up good, eh?

    Cheers.
  64. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: blue nose from Calgary, Canada:

    It's funny that I used to play that old Stan tune when I lived out West too...

    I haven't played it much since coming back to NS, however...

    Mark my words, dude... You'll be back!

    Cheers.
  65. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Shaun Adamson from Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi, I don't consider having to change vehicles every 2 to 3 months being "reliable" cars...
    --------------------------

    Suit yourself. The most I paid was $500, but that car went 77,000 miles with only a change of tires (I went to school in the East, but worked summers in Alberta/British Columbia). Once a car is more than 5 years old, it has next to no book value. Insurance is a dawdle--cheap--with only PLPD. Get a Toyota, Honda, or VW, they run forever.
  66. Shaun Adamson from Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: Shaun Adamson from Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi, I don't consider having to change vehicles every 2 to 3 months being "reliable" cars...
    --------------------------

    Suit yourself. The most I paid was $500, but that car went 77,000 miles with only a change of tires (I went to school in the East, but worked summers in Alberta/British Columbia). Once a car is more than 5 years old, it has next to no book value. Insurance is a dawdle--cheap--with only PLPD. Get a Toyota, Honda, or VW, they run forever.
    ---------------------------
    Might be wise to state the year you did this...
  67. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Rollo Tomasi from Belgium:

    Toyotas, Subarus, Hondas do all have great longevity... VWs not so much...

    However, I also remember the days that one could purchase a 5 year old Chevette or Escort for a couple of c notes ... I still miss my Buick that I sold for $750.

    That was over twenty years ago, however....

    Time flies when you are having fun, eh!

    Cheers.
  68. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: I confess, it was over 20 years ago. It wasn't easy then, either. The next best thing to getting a newer car was getting rid of an old one. The neighbours probably thought so too.
  69. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Please re-read the 8:33 PM post as it is an important one...

    I think that the biggest issue on this thread is how will Canada ensure that students like Chelsea Stevens and her 4.0 GPA can remain in Canadian Universities and contribute to the future and development of this country.

    Anyone have any ideas ?

    Cheers.
  70. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Sharp --

    Thanks for putting the financial figure in perspective...

    When you take that $2.18 million and divide it by 33 million Canadians, it works out to a little less than 7 cents per Canadian...

    I hope all these University students feel terrible about depriving Canadians from buying a few of their well earned Bazooka Joes...

    Cheers.
  71. Shaun Adamson from Canada writes: I think in Chelsey's case, since she has been achieving 4.0 GPA then the university itself could step up a but and increase her scholarship. Also, bursaries should be made more available for people who are providing consistently excellent grades and show financial need.

    I do agree with some of the posts saying tuition should be subsidized for 'in demand' degrees, but I disagree that tuition should be raised artificially for others. However, it is important that these subsidies be offered only to those students who can prove that they are deserving, by providing good grades and such.

    The situation which Chelsey has described is terribly unfortunate. If education can only be obtained by the wealthy, how will we move ahead as a society? Perhaps some level of assistance (loan forgiveness) from government based on academic performance is in order, but that can't be the sole solution. I think that this level of assistance is acceptable, but has to be earned.
  72. Rollo Tomasi from Belgium writes: I believe that there should be a hybrid grant/loan system directed at students from low income families and/or high grades. An education is a right, but I believe post-secondary is a right that is earned. For those who've proven themselves as successful students, give them grants. For the rest, at least give them a shot.
    ----------------------

    You may believe anything until you know otherwise. Here it is: post secondary education is not a right.

    But has NS sent a message to students, don't worry about taking loans you cannot possibly repay?
  73. Robert Marshall from Scarborough, Canada writes: Maybe the problem is that we have too many students are:

    1) Getting an education in an area which they will never be able to make the amount of money necessary to pay off their debts

    2) Not attempting to develop the necessary networks to get themselves good paying jobs to pay off the debt
  74. Mike B from Canada writes: Maybe the constituencies that gain the employement of those educated in Nova Scotia should pony up weith aprt of funding the education. For example, Alberta government payingf part of the education for the Engineers that graduate from Dal (or TUNS or whatever) and work in the oilpatch. Or Texas, Florida, Georgia and Mississippi paying for part of the cost of educating the nurses from St FX etc. Or Ontario and Alberta govt paying for the education of the teachers.

    Government pays huge costs to educate these people (like myself) that left as soon as possible after getting the diploma. Actually, Student Loans are easy to pay for after you leave Canada.
  75. blue nose from Calgary, Canada writes: R Miller from Halifax: Yeah, I know.
  76. Terry F from Edmonton, Canada writes: Is this really the best way to spend the money we give you for transfer payments?
  77. Emperor Joshua Norton from Toronto, Canada writes: Terry F - interesting point. Given that NS receives significant amounts in equalization, wouldn't it be more accurate to say that Alberta and Toronto writes off $2.1M of Nova Scotian student debts?
  78. R Miller from Halifax, Canada writes: Mike B from Canada:

    I like the way that you are speaking...

    The Government of Nova Scotia should be studying the question as to where graduates of all of the universities that we have in this Province are ending up being employed and consequently paying taxes...

    Since education is a shared Provincial-Federal responsibility, it would make alot of sense for the NS Provincial Government to recoup its costs of training students who merely move to other provinces or countries to pay their taxes elsewhere...

    Wait a minute? Did I just use the words "sense" and "NS Provincial Government" in the same sentence?

    With such a system in place, the Terry F's from Edmonton might be a little more humble...

    As far as the Chelsea Stevens of this country, we must find a way to continue to promote our best and brightest so that they don't simply end up flipping burgers for a living. Corporate funded scholarships are generally much richer in the United States than in Canada. Isn't it about time that more of the costs were born by those who benefit from having educated employees?

    Cheers.

    PS. Blue Nose from Calgary, Canada --- I know that you know !

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