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How does a $224 flight end up costing $826?

DOUGLAS MCARTHUR

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 1:23 PM EDT 09/05/08

A look at the increasing number of hidden fees - including a new charge for second bags announced by Air Canada last week ...Read the full article

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  1. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: It's as bad as the old restaurant sign, that had T-bones on for 50 cents................ if you wanted meat that was another $11. Just put the final price in the ad and quit screwing the public around.
  2. D M from Canada writes: With respect to the flexible fuel-pricing that might come up, and other variables, it makes you wonder what kind of businessmen run the airlines. I mean, lots of industries have to cope with variations in costs, including fuel. But they .. plan for it .. like real businessmen.

    I fly almost weekly in Europe, and the best way I´ve found is to scout airlines with ebookers.com, or rumbo.es, or the other sites that have multiple carriers, but when I find the flight I want, I then go to that airline's site, and book directly. The "service" is usually much better, you can select more options, and sometimes you get cheaper fares, as some sites, like ebookers, charge a fee for their service. Don't know how revelant it is in North America..
  3. Matthew Baldwin from Canada writes: 1) Airlines should not be able to hide fuel surcharges in "taxes". It is not a tax. It's part of the cost of delivering the flight and therefore should be part of the fare.
    2) The feds need to rein in both airport charges and NAVCAN charges. Both are absolutely ridiculous and why no one does anything about them is absurd.

    Bottom Line: Much like the cellular providers, this is regulated theft....
  4. Winston Smith from Canada writes: This is why Statistics Canada show no inflation.
  5. Fun Times from Canada writes: The extra stupid fees on Canadian flights is the exact reason that I usually fly out of Buffalo, sometimes Hamilton, and never Toronto (unless there is absolutely no other viable option). I flew to Kauai, Hawaii last year, and we saved $2000 using Expedia and flying out of Buffalo instead of Toronto. Totally insane price difference, there was no difference in seats, or flight time. How can that possibly be justified?
  6. Kim Philby from Ottawa, Canada writes: I dunno - how do new cars "starting" at $22, 595 end up costing $34, 799 when you settle on the one with the stuff you want?
  7. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: If you check US travel news sites (USA Today online among the best), this is not unique to Canada nor perpetrated by AC. It seems that AC picks up 3-4 new tricks from American legacy carriers (fuel surcharges, extra bag fees) for every one that it teaches them (buy onboard food).

    http://www.usatoday.com/travel/

    Sorry to hear that Pearson has the highest airport fees in the world but that should be remedied as European privatized airports lift their fees and US airports get privatized, ending an era of state and local government subsidized air travel. Even public American airports (e.g., IAH and ORD) have started to add their own additional fees (tolls) recently.
  8. J.C. Davies from Canada writes:
    "Sorry to hear that Pearson has the highest airport fees in the world but that should be remedied as European privatized airports lift their fees and US airports get privatized"

    Actually privatization should lead to lower fees. Toronto's Pearson is the exception because the Liberal government chose to "reward" Toronto voters by sticking the airport authority with excessive lease payments.
  9. mad dog from Salt Spring, Canada writes: To answer your question.....Look at Air Canada!! Just say no to AC, encourage all you can to NOT fly AC, avoid them like the plague. The sooner they go broke the better. Should they ever go under again write your mp and encourage the govt to NOT bail them out.
    Just some examples: Air Can. to Tokyo from YVR return $1400. Meanwhile you can fly United from LAX return $918 That's approx 30% less to fly 30% further! You will have to fly to LA though. Should you choose to fly AC to LAX from YVR that would be about $280. Course you could drive to Seattle and get a deal for $85. I have flown from London to Forli Italy and back for $65. This would compare to Vancouver to Lethbridge. Course we would have to go Air Canada and they'll get you Van. to Lethbridge and back for $1200! Every time I have looked at getting a ticket from AC it is a ripoff. Their best deals are ripoffs. They don't deserve ANY customer loyalty. Canadians on the whole though are so lay back regarding getting ripped off that I believe we have brought this outfit and their curse upon ourselves. Tired of rip off prices at YVR.... Fly out of Seattle. It's not to far to commute. Encourage your international guests coming to the Olympics to fly in and out of Seattle and to AVOID AC at all costs!
    Flying across Canada? do some comparison shopping price out flying across the USA with a short connector flight at each end you will probably save yourself hundreds if not thousands of $'s
    Just remember at Air Canada "They're not happy until your not happy!" Man I feel better already, this ranting is therapeutic!!
  10. Non-hyphenated Canadian from Burlington, Canada writes: I've got no problem being charged for food. Due to food allergies, I've never been able to eat the food served on a plane. I've inquired about a fare reduction and gotten nowhere. So now, I can pay (a little) less and enjoy something I bring myself.

    I have to admit that the last flight I took was on Porter Airlines. Granted, it was a short flight but the service was incredible, the plane was comfortable and there was one price that included all things. I am hooked.
  11. RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: I do think that price are kind of high due to lack of competition; US carriers are going bankrupt left, right and center and Westjet is raking in record profits - wonder why?!

    I don't think the advertising is misleading though. Everybody knows about the taxes so it's not like anyone actually expects to fly for $224. The surcharges also flutuate so you would have stale pricing. Be honest here, are you going to build all your plans around a newpaper ad saying you can fly for $x and not even check? No. You are going to go to the website or call, find out what it really costs, then go if it still makes sense.
  12. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: For those of you looking at US flights ... follow the American airline industry and you will see that the golden age of giveaways is ending and prices rising to profitable (i.e., Canadian) levels in tandem with US domestic capacity cuts (good luck on getting down to LAX for your Japan flight!). Going down to BUF for a Southwest flight was a good idea ... "was" because SWA's fuel hedges have been unwinding (buying at prices based on $50 bbl oil) so even its prices are going up. Delta and Northwest, who are merging for survival, lost a combined $10.5 Billion (yep, that's a "B") in Q1, 2008, so you tell me how they're going to react? $299 specials SFO-BOS?
  13. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: J.C. Davis writes, "Actually privatization should lead to lower fees." The Canadian and European example shows that's not the case since airports were once pubicly subsidized but must now a) meet its costs and b) make a profit. That argument is going on right now in Chicago with the Midway privatization. City Hall reopened the bidding when ADP (Aeroports de Paris) came up with the highest solo bid ... then BAA reappeared with a consortium. Given the fees that they'll fork over, they're not going to run Midway out of charity.

    For non-subsidized provision of the same service, the private provider should be cheaper and more productive.
  14. More or Less from Canada writes: Pack a lunch? ha! I would love to bring my own food & beverages, but how do you get that past security? You might be packing exploding tuna sandwiches, and forget the PB&J--no deadly peanut products allowed on the plane. The fuel surcharge is what gets me. As has been mentioned, if it's a cost of doing business then build it into the price. Same with luggage--you should get x lbs included in the price of the ticket. Fare prices are already all over the map and literally change minute to minute; there's something wrong with a business that doesn't know how much it costs to be profitable. I like these other 9 Most Obnoxious Hidden Fares from Consumerist.com: 9. Making a reservation on the phone or in person. Fee: $5-$20 8. Cashing in frequent flyer miles without "sufficient" advance notice. Fee: $0-100. 7. Bringing a pet onboard in the cabin/ Fee: $50-85 (each way) 6. Re-banking frequent flyer miles. Fee: $50-100 5. Checking luggage. Fee: $3-10 (each way) 4. Getting a refund when a fare goes down. Fee: $25 to $200 or more. 3. Flying standby on the same day of travel. Fee: $0-50 2. Paying for lap children. Fee: $10 to 10 percent of the adult fare 1. Getting a seat assignment. Fee: $5-$11 (each way) And let's not forget the paper ticket fee, and the customer service fee (Air Canada).
  15. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: RD Lone writes, "I do think that price are kind of high due to lack of competition; US carriers are going bankrupt left, right and center and Westjet is raking in record profits - wonder why?!" The state of the American airline industry shows a broken financial model and they are cutting US domestic capacity because they can't afford to give away flights any more. As well, SWA's fuel hedges (at $50 bbl oil) have diminished and soon to disappear while oil is at $115 today, and US airfares are rising up, up, up.

    As a disclaimer, I'm glad that you were able to take advantage. But as a frequent flier, don't assume that the broken model in the US will continue indefinitely. IF anything, a United bailout by AC and Lufthansa would not be impossible if Congress lifts foreign ownership barriers.
  16. rahim ladha from montreal, Canada writes: The reasons given as to why Canadian airlines are more expensive then US counterparts is not true...

    The article says Canadian airlines pay more fees, taxes etc and Pearson Int Airport is most expensive... if thats the main reason then how come Air Canada flight to NYC from Toronto is normally 1.5 times the price of a similar flight by Continental ? The airports are the same, fees paid the same, gst is the same, airport improvement fees are same etc......Air Canada and WestJet are squeezing Canadians because we do not speak up like Americans do, hence it is easy to take advantage of Canadian consumers, if more proof is needed just compare car prices between the 2 countries, for the Corolla that is Built in ONtario, it costs $3000-$4000 cheaper in US....we are suckers..
  17. Another Option canada from Canada writes: Air Canada and the other Air Lines are being shafted by the Feds that run the airport in Toronto. I was checking the travel section in the paper and saw a ad that stated $54 to Orlando. Then below in small print it has $250 in Tax and airport fees. So I checked to fly Detroit to Orlando $ 50 flight Fees and taxes are $ 30. The Airport tax for Toronto is the highest in the world. So it's you money spend it how you like.. Shop around.
  18. Cowtown boy from Calgary, Canada writes: The key thing I read in the article was regarding the lobbying by the industry so the Law was stalled in the senate.

    Lets put a stop to all lobbying now. Since when did it become fair for those with money to have access to creating law.
  19. CK Cheung from Canada writes: Be fair enough, all business are there for profit. If you go far too low for the airline to operate effectively, you get what you paid for, I would rather not to travel at all than risking my safety.

    On the other hand I do agree government should set some standards for airlines to advertise.
  20. B C from Canada writes: There should be a fee in place for people who spend the airlines staff time complaining.

    And besides that, get with the times. Air travel is fuel intensive, and prices should be high and will remain high. Gimme a profitable airline flight over a moneyloser any day. I want to get home without being stranded by a bankruptcy.
  21. dumb guy from Vancouver, Canada writes: The fuel surcharge is the biggest crock in the airline industry. Fares on each route are adjusted multiple times each day. They know closely enough what their fuel cost are because that is one of their major input costs. Build it in. I get the feeling, though, that because their corporate accounts get a discount from the published fare, or a fare rebate each month/quarter/year based on the amount of AIRFARE paid, not total price paid, that including the true fuel cost in the airfare would increase these rebates. I say renegotiate these rebates to reflect that fact. It is a bit different than other fuel surcharges for transportation services. Trucking and courier rates are set well in advance and only adjust on longer cycles. The fuel surcharge takes up some of this variability on a monthly/weekly basis, but again, isn't discounted or included in any volume rebates. Finally, we are a nation of whiners. Airfares too high, fine, we'll cut out some of the "services" that used to be included so fares aren't as high then we complain that we don't get any service. Some of the a la carte charges are a bit ridiculous (blanket charges), but some aren't that stupid (always complaining about airline food, fine, let some "normal" restaurant package it up and let you buy it if you want. You can't have it both ways for domestic travel at low fares. Finally, get that legislation passed to have the advertised fares equal the actual fares you can get when booking.
  22. Bruixa C from Canada writes: Well if the cost of fuel is the issue they should weigh people! I weigh 100 pounds; why should I pay the same as someone twice my weight? Hope they come up with such a pricing scheme!
  23. Beyazet Ilderim from Scarborough?, Canada writes: RD Lone from Vancouver, Canada writes: ....I don't think the advertising is misleading though. Everybody knows about the taxes so it's not like anyone actually expects to fly for $224. The surcharges also fluctuate so you would have stale pricing. Be honest here, are you going to build all your plans around a newspaper ad saying you can fly for $x and not even check? No. You are going to go to the website or call, find out what it really costs, then go if it still makes sense.

    When one advertise a price that price shall be the one you pay in order to get it as described in the advertisement. Anything less than that is thievery. No wonder there are so many bankruptcies in N America!. RD Lone is wrong. Any advertising which does not disclose the full price is a trap for idiots. The advertiser shall harshly be punished by the law.
  24. Rae Ellingham from Roberts Creek, Canada writes: It's just as bad as the full breakfast advertised for (say) $4.99 but not including coffee selling for $2.25 a mug. And who eats breakfast without coffee?
  25. Sue W from Canada writes: Anyone who actually thinks it will only cost them $224 to fly to London is a dum-dum.

    What I'd really like to know though is why it costs $826 for Joe Blow, but when government workers fly on the taxpayer dime why their flights always end up costing thousands more than the $826?
  26. Mr. Justice from Canada writes: Air Canada's excuse is a little lame. With all their high-priced PR talent, that's the BEST they could do ?

    YIKES.
  27. S P from vancouver, Canada writes: This is maddening - and to make it worse, the government allows them to mislead the consumer. It's absolutely outrageous that they are still allowed to practice this blatant and false advertising.
  28. John Smith from Toronto, Canada writes: Its called creative advertising. Oil is going up. Chinese oil demand growing over 13% yearly. The airlines and the government should stop creatively lying to consumers. The days of cheap airline travel are likely over. And in regards to the $25 extra bag fee, does that mean when they they lose your extra bag at least you get $25 back instead of nothing or will we have to collect that from the fuel supplier because the airline blamed it on the price of fuel?
  29. SoTiredoftheBS inTO from Toronto, Canada writes: On a recent flight to Calgary I booked my AC Tango Plus fare 5 weeks in advance but did not book my seat because I was traveling with a business colleague and we wanted to sit together to work on a presentation. When we got to the check in desk we were informed that we did not have seats and would have to be on standby. After my head exploded I was informed that because I didn't pay the extra charge to book seat I had only paid for, and I quote verbatim,"... the possibility of flying on AC on that given flight." We canceled our tickets, walked over to the Westjet counter and flew a half hour later at less money.

    AC nickel and dimes you to death and gives you the absolute worst service on the planet.
  30. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: rahim ladha writes, "... how come Air Canada flight to NYC from Toronto is normally 1.5 times the price of a similar flight by Continental ?" For the weekend of May 16, I see $385 CO and $458 UA/AC. Domestically, on the same weekend, I see PDX-ORD (Portland, Oregon to Chicago O'Hare) at $415 SW, $475 United and $499 American ... which is odd since the American flights are usually a lot more (and now seasonal, twice daily, no longer all year), or United has hiked its price in advance of American doing so.

    By the way, CO rang up a $80 Million loss in Q1, 2008 which is pretty good compared to all the others ... AC likely won't, WJ didn't.
  31. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: SoTired... writes, "AC nickel and dimes you to death and gives you the absolute worst service on the planet." They learn the former from the US legacy carriers (or rather, they teach each other). For the latter, fly an American legacy airline on a US domestic route and you'll see why AC regularly wins business travel airline awards ... they're the best of a mediocre bunch. Fly Singapore or Emirates!
  32. aging oldtool from Canada writes: I've pretty much weined myself off air travel as it has become a punishing ordeal confirming prices, getting to the airport even earlier and, in essence handing over most of your rights to some one with a metal detector wand and too much attitude.

    Of course this occurs while you are being herded along with hundreds of other none-smiling fellow passengers, all wondering what changes they will face before landing at their destination.

    Sure, I'll never get to Paris on my 21 speed bike, but I do knowI will at least be happy when I arrive at my destination.
  33. Mo Mo from Canada, Canada writes: Why do we have so many hidden costs in Canada?

    I've lived most my life in Europe and products and services were prices with final prices (including taxes and such things). I find Canadian pricing to be deceiving and deceitful for the consumer. If a car costs $10,000 you are automatically expected to know that you will have to pay $1300 more (in Ontario) for taxes... then there's the service fees and release fee or something like that and eventually you're paying close to $14000 for a $9999 advertized vehicle. I understand the topic in discuss is about air fair but I am looking at the larger picture here. Honestly, what portion of the population can actually read the fine print on a TV add about discounted fairs or special sales? Is there no way the people of Ontario (or Canada) can sign a petition that mandates better transparency.

    Certainly I'm not the only one who has had trouble understading this concept of unfair advertizing and who wishes to voice his/her concerns via a petiton (or any other reasonable form) to the government or the regulatory body that oversees such activities. I think it's great everyone is having a discussion on it, but of what use is a discussion if no one is willing to act on it and get results?
  34. J K GALBRAITH from Canada writes: The larger problem is that there is not an overall air travel industry anymore but a separate set of services that give the impression they are all independent of each other rather than the reality of being interdependent and making it easier for the flying consumer. Apparently, the airlines believe that they can fly from city to city without actually landing or taking off so that is the price they need to advertise. The airports believe they are about being large and profitable so when they want to add another charge they can just ask you for it directly if the airlines won't collect it when you buy your ticket. Somebody needs to bring all the players together and tell them how to ensure they give the appearance of working together publicly to the customer and leave all their differences in the backroom where the consumer does not see it. Surely after September 11, 2001, the airlines and airport authorities and everyone else realizes how terrible the flying experience now is with all the additional security measures and they would be going out of their way to make things as simple and convenient as possible for the customers. Instead, it seems they all want to remain independent, blame the other organizations involved and frustrates their consumers. What a poor business model!
  35. Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: Yeah, I've weined myself too, old tool. With airlines, you get so used to being treated like crap and herded like cattle, I have to say that when I took my first 5:30 VIA 1 class from Toronto to Ottawa, it was a revelation - you can show up 10 minutes before the train leaves, no problem (and if you're early there's a nice lounge with free beverages); as the train leaves Union Station, the beverage cart comes out and cocktail hour starts (and my, those VIA folks do make a fine spicy caesar, I must say, to be followed by a rather lovely 3-course meal - on china, with wine.

    Yeah, it's a 4-5 hour haul, but what a way to go - and when you consider the time they keep you waiting at the airport, plus the hassle of getting to and from - the time factor is about the same, plus, a person could actually work on the train (or sleep!), if they wanted.

    MUCH more civilized, and really, no more money - book in advance, and it's much cheaper than flying.
  36. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: I previously wrote, "I see PDX-ORD (Portland, Oregon to Chicago O'Hare) at $415 SW, $475 United and $499 American ..." By the way, the UA and AA fares are connecting flights, SWA is direct to Chicago Midway no O'Hare ... direct is $483.50 United, $551 American. AA wants to have as many people connecting to lucrative international flights at O'Hare on their twice daily, now seasonal flight schedule so their fare is higher to discourage people.
  37. J Lee from North Vancouver, Canada writes: While I think the advertising methods of the airlines are completely deceptive they aren't deceptive just on price. I recently called about a special fare which they quoted to me exactly as advertised, but with one minor exception - the flight had left the previous Tuesday. So I accepted the quote to see if they would actually process the transaction. After a long pause the agent finally apologized for having tried to sell me a flight that was "no longer available." But, of course, now they had me on the line, the next question was whether I wished to buy a ticket for the flight the next day. I agreed if the price was the same. How shocked I was when the agent told me that it was a full fare ticket.
  38. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: I had to fly from Saskatoon to Windsor when my mother was killed in an auto accident back in the 80's. On short notice it cost $1400. I paid it and went down and back on AC. At no time was I advised of a bereavement policy of reduced fares. I found this out years later. Since that time I have flown to the south in winter and to the west coast, all on Westjet. I will never fly with Air Canada again.
  39. Lowen Wrainger from Canada writes: What's the point of even quoting a partial price? Why not just open an account with an airline, give them carte blanche access to your credit cards and bank accounts. I'm sure that things will go smoothly from there and no one will be ripped off. Fasten your seat belts!
  40. Dr Demento from Canada writes: J.C. Davies from Canada writes:

    "Actually privatization should lead to lower fees."

    When will ideologues like Davies finally admit that privatization is no guarantee of lower prices OR better service.

    - Hwy 407
    - Bell Canada
    - Air Canada
    - Alberta Power
    - Canadian airports
    - Nav Canada
    - the list goes on . . .
  41. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: mad dog writes, "Air Can. to Tokyo from YVR return $1400. Meanwhile you can fly United from LAX return $918 ..." From the United Airlines section of USA Today's Today In The Sky blogs ...

    United to slash jobs, flights after $537M quarterly loss

    This just in from The Associated Press: "United Airlines parent UAL reported a $537 million first-quarter loss Tuesday due to soaring fuel costs and said it is cutting flights and 1,100 jobs as it streamlines during an 'extraordinarily difficult' environment for airlines. The loss was the biggest since the nation's second-largest carrier emerged from bankruptcy in 2006, and worse than Wall Street expected. UAL said its nearly 8% growth in revenue from the first quarter of 2007 was more than offset by a $618 million jump in fuel costs, which rose nearly 50% in a year."

    "The Chicago-based company said it will cut another $200 million in costs by eliminating 500 salaried and management jobs and 600 union jobs by year's end. UAL also said it will cut capacity 9% by the fourth quarter, on top of a 5% reduction in the fourth quarter of 2007, and take 10 to 15 more narrowbody aircraft out of its operating fleet for a total of 30 to be grounded."

    http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/united/index.html
  42. Sask Langer from Canada writes: guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: At no time was I advised of a bereavement policy of reduced fares. I found this out years later. Since that time I have flown to the south in winter and to the west coast, all on Westjet. I will never fly with Air Canada again.

    Typical anti-AC-at-all-costs whiner.

    "I never thought there might be a bereavement policy and never told the agent why I was booking, but they should have known! AC is the worst on the planet."

    Maybe it was your travel agent who didn't look it up? Because I highly doubt you'd be able to figure that out on your own in the 80s. Do you also blame them when they don't come out and say "hey, if you fly on this other flight it's cheaper than the one you want to be on"?

    You probably still think they're a crown corporation, don't you.
  43. some guy from somewhere from ottawa, Canada writes: Guy,

    Did you inform the ticket agent of the reason for your travel?
  44. James Gill from Vancouver, Canada writes: In fairness to AC, they were the first airline to roll their fuel surcharges into fares. They do not do it on international travel, because their competition does not, and even though the bottom line cost to the traveller is comparable, the advertised fare (which is, basically, the only thing that motivates most purchasers) would not be.
  45. Dan Bleichman from Ottawa, Canada writes: A few weeks ago I flew with EasyJet a 1800k"m one way trip and paid 58EU for the round trip and there wasn't a deal or anything just a standard price for the route. The flights both ways lived on time, arrived 10 min ahead of time (operated from secondary airports) and after all this EasyJet is making great profit. A similar flight in NA would have cost me around $400. Yes I had to pay 3EU for a can of nice German beer but still can't complain. How do they do it?
  46. N Diab from Windsor, Canada writes: In fact, globally, labor accounts for 35-40% of the operating costs of the airline industry, which represents about 75% of all non-fixed costs. Now, for any airlines to cover its costs, it must have on average 65% of its seats occupied (passenger load factor), a share that increased in the deregulation context. The airlines should reconsider their business model in order to avoid the increase in fares paid by passengers. They should look at the cost of high salaries paid to its management. The low cost airport terminals is a very successful business model to be followed.
  47. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Dr Demento writes, "When will ideologues like Davies finally admit that privatization is no guarantee of lower prices OR better service." What you are missing is the point about whether the privatized services were subsidized or not. Airports and ATC were in Canada and Australia, Airports in Europe (ATC still public) while both are still publicly subsidized in the US. US flying is looking more Canadian with airfares rising due to the need for profits as well as fuel, and airport privatization to relieve bleeding local and state budgets. The third leg, ATC, has no privatization plans in the US but the FAA is under strain due to slow replacement hiring and accelerated early retirements. Some early retirees have, interestingly, hired on with Lockheed who run Oz's Navcan-equivalent and rumors are that a shadow private ATC operation is in the works in case that an ATC crisis is declared some day, maybe soon.

    http://cbs2chicago.com/local/fly.own.risk.2.708152.html

    [For those of you who are or were based in San Diego, yes, that's Ann State who joined WBBM in mid-April.]
  48. Gary Dare from writes: N Diab writes, "The airlines should reconsider their business model in order to avoid the increase in fares paid by passengers." Most of the airlines are between a rock and a hard place since the unions at US legacy carriers are as bad or worse than the ones at AC. Southwest's second advantage, besides a $50 bbl oil fuel hedge that's dwindling to nothing finally, is a flexible labor model. But the gap between SWA and its rivals is narrowing as we speak. "They should look at the cost of high salaries paid to its management." A good point, airline executives are looting their companies (look at old US Airways just before their second bankruptcy and near death experience). While Delta racked up a $6.2 Billion loss in Q1, 2008, its CEO made $11 Million in that same quarter. United's boss, Glen Tilton, almost makes that in a year. "The low cost airport terminals is a very successful business model to be followed." Look up Skybus, who lasted nine months in late 2007, early 2008.
  49. Jennifer R from Ottawa, Canada writes: Why has no one commented on this part of the article: Robert Mann, an analyst with R.W. Mann & Company, says fees for using a credit card could be the next shoe to drop in North America. This is already the practice with some European low-cost airlines and with carriers in Australia.
    How else are we supposed to pay for a ticket online or with an agent? by cash, by cheque or by bank card. I do not understand. Please explain this to me.
  50. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Gary Dare; The privatized airports in Canada are cash cows, with exhorbitant landing and "improvement" fees that are simply a license to spend on new facilities, whether needed or not.

    There are some publicly run operations that are not subsidized that provide better service at lower costs than their private counterparts.

    You mentioned you are from Winnipeg - care to comment on MPIC and Manitoba Hydro and how your experience with private car insurance and utilities in the US compares?
  51. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Dan Bleichman writes, "A few weeks ago I flew with EasyJet a 1800km one way trip and paid 58EU for the round trip and there wasn't a deal or anything just a standard price for the route." EJ's CEO Andy Harrison announced last week that all European LCC's are in danger with current oil prices and their business model may no longer be sustainable. The Euro LCC's operate a la carte, where the ticket price is carriage and all else is extra (RyanAir was considering pay toilets until a Euro versus Pound coin form factor difference put up an obstacle to implement). At current oil prices, even if less volatile when calculated in Euros, EJ has issued an earnings warning for a 20% hit due to fuel costs alone (the kicker is that 40% of their fuel is hedged at $75 bbl oil).
  52. D Chris from Calgary, Canada writes: Even more criminal is cashing in Airmiles. I know that 'taxes and fees' are extra when using Airmiles... but how does this work -- the same Calgary-Vancouver return flight that had taxes and fees on Westjet.ca of ~$95 return had taxes and fees of ~$160 return when booking with Airmiles. And the $95 return included just over $10 in GST which shouldn't be charged by Airmiles, so in other words Airmiles taxes and fees are DOUBLE what the Westjet.ca charges.

    What a scam. The reason, I was told, is that Westjet's fares include a number of other taxes and fees which I must pay. (Not sure how that jives with their special today that would allow one to pay a fare of $29 to fly to Vancouver -- where are the 'included fees'?!!?)

    SCAMMERS. At least one customer is done with Airmiles.
  53. D Chris from Calgary, Canada writes: Just like new vehicle pricing... Plus PDI, freight, lease charges, etc. etc. etc. None of these are 'optional'.

    If the government is going to step in on flight advertising, do the same for vehicles!
  54. Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: D Chris - WestJet is currently de-coupling from Air Miles and starting its own rewards program, so let's hope we'll do better with Air Miles elsewhere. Air Miles (at least as explained by the Mosaic MasterCard people) will now be redeemable with just about any airline, so hopefully there will also be a little competition on that fees front.
  55. RG White from Shubie, Canada writes: Hilton Honors program has urged me to couple my points with an airline, but the only one they list is Air Canada. I'll walk before I fly with an airline that bilked their suppliers for billions, and called it bankruptcy.
  56. guy tozer from Saskatoon, Canada writes: Sask Langer: You missed the whole point! There was no "later" flight' . The AC rep. could have mentioned about the bereavement policy when I booked. It is the old saying of caveat emptor, I got sucked in and made sure it didn't happen again . I like westjet.
  57. Alberto Bayo from Canada writes: They should weigh the traveller, and his/her luggage, and charge by the pound...like in the nineteen-thirties.
  58. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: RG White writes, "I'll walk before I fly with an airline that bilked their suppliers for billions, and called it bankruptcy." In North America, then, avoid AC, UA, US, CO, NW, DL, F9 (Frontier), AS (Alaska). What's left isn't bad (WJ, Porter, AA, SW, JB, HW) but they don't connect with each other and it'll be hard to get around.
  59. some guy from somewhere from ottawa, Canada writes: Hey Tozer,

    You still haven't said whether or not you advised anyone at AC why you had to travel.

    Next time pay the service fee and book with a travel agent (service fees did not even exist back because airlines paid commission. That ended several years ago). Every agent knows about the special fares and you would have saved 700.00.
  60. Paul Hoffman from Burlington ON, Canada writes: Michele K, is West Jet in fact de-coupling from Airmiles, or just the BMO Mosaic Mastecard with the West Jet option? According to the West Jet website they will still be giving airmiles for flights booked online. Now that is not to say that they are not working on their own reward program. Only used the option once, but it was nice to fly to Vancouver from Hamilton return for 1600 airmiles each, plus taxes and fees of course :-)
  61. Michele K from Ottawa, Canada writes: I read it in the Globe a couple of months back that West Jet was starting it's own program as soon as its current contract with Air Miles ends, a year from then.

    Shortly after, Mosaic announces its post-Air Miles plan, so it sounds to me to be West Jet-driven.
  62. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Dr Demento writes, "The privatized airports in Canada are cash cows, ..." Exactly, which is why the idea is being picked up by US local and state governments who have been subsidizing their airports and why in the first American experiment, Chicago Midway, there is a second round of bids, re-opened after fatter offers from consortia started to appear. The top two previous bids, by ADP and BAA, had to return with new partners. Midway is the experiment, the big one will be O'Hare after the first time kinks are ironed out.

    I have never had MPIC, never owned a car until the Chicago years, but complaints from family is that their rates are as high as they would be for private coverage in Ontario in a similar area. (That's an important factor, as rates were 3X higher in downtown Chicago than in the far suburbs like Libertyville; even now, I'm paying double in downtown Portland versus their suburbs.) US utilities are net importers rather than net exporters, so it's hard to compare against the nearly wholesale rates that Manitoba Hydro charges against, say, ComEd or Pacific Power. If that interests you, Chicago area utility rates (they're regulated) are covered well in Crain's Chicago Business.

    http://www.chicagobusiness.com/
  63. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: RG White writes, "Hilton Honors program has urged me to couple my points with an airline, but the only one they list is Air Canada." Are you sure? I've moved my HHonors FF partner from American to United to AC in the past few years due to a) change of primary carrier (AA to UA) and then b) new US travel taxes on auto rental and hotel points going to a US carrier's FF plan (none to AC, BA, AF, etc.).

    I got the first tip-off on "b" from the USA Today travel blog, warned my colleagues who didn't believe me, then their expense forms got kicked back for the $2.75 points tax that the company travel policy won't cover. All of my auto and hotel points go to my Aeroplan while my United Mileage Plus collects all of my Star Alliance flight mileage.
  64. Joyce Ripley from Burtts Corner, NB, Canada writes: I recently bought return tickets for a trip to BC. I bought them about 4 months early thinking that the price would probably go up as summer approached if I waited.

    Recently, Air Canada sent me a message advertising the great savings I could have on airline tickets. I phoned Air Canada and asked them if I could take advantage of the savings and they said, No. I then said that I would prefer that they would not send me these messages telling me how much I could save when I had already bought more expensive tickets. They said they couldn't do that either (What, they can't create a computer program to exclude my getting information I don't want!!??)

    Then yesterday they sent me another message telling me about the great savings. Man, that burns me up!
  65. Sam Fed from Canada writes: Whose side is the law on? Whose side is the government on? If any business advertises a price for their services and a consumer accepts the deal thinking that that is the honest price, whose fault is that according to the law? I do my best to avoid Toronto, so far successfully over the last few years. Even if I was visiting Toronto, I would fly into Hamilton, or take the train. When it comes to buying a car, you still have the option of rejecting the deal up to the point that you hand over the cheque.
    I have a long felt that the Senate was a waste of taxpayers money, this article has added one more reason to support that view.
    Another matter, why should a light person subsidize the fare of a heavy person?
    SoTired etc.,(2:07) surely you imagined that? If they ACTUALLY did that, surely they would be out of business in a week! Just to be safe, I'll take your word for it and avoid AC.
    Is there a political party out there who will make honest pricing mandatory by law? They might get my vote! (I'm so incensed at this, I might, even if it's the NDP)
  66. Paul Done from Vancouver, Canada writes: It frankly beggars belief that our so-called "free-market" government essentially protests our Airline duopoly from transparent pricing. In what other business of this size can mandatory fees and all taxes be excluded from advertised prices?

    I understand and accept the unavoidable new paradigm of a la carte flight service where everything from bags, insurance and seat selection are an extra. These are all optional charges and need not be listed upfront, but to hide taxes and a fuel surcharge which the consumer mus pay regardless is dishonest and misleading.

    The fact that consumers are now inured to this flim-flam in no way forgives the fact that we are being taken for fools on a daily basis as we are bombarded with each new round of special offers.

    Our governments are all on the bandwagon of deception as they count the tax dollars they collect at every step of the travel process.

    I have no choice but to travel for work and to visit my family across the country. I feel sick and screwed over every single time that I pay for a flight, get mauled by hamfisted security measures and get trampled by terrible customer service.

    Air travel has become one long series of insults and discomfort and it all started with the insult of dishonest pricing standards.
  67. guy tozer from Canada writes: some guy from somewhere from ottawa :Are you for real? AC was informed of the reason for my flight!. I did not know of their bereavement policy!. They could have told me about it but decided to take the money instead. All I am saying, is they neglected to make me aware of it and it cost them money over the years. Is this simple enough of an explanation for you ?
  68. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Joyce Ripley writes, "I recently bought return tickets for a trip to BC." Sorry but people get burned by sales that they don't expect, showing up after they bought the product. Last autumn, the media was full of "book now before price goes up, selection goes down" and I booked in early October for the holidays. Then United announced a Holiday Sale two weeks later ...

    If the fare difference is greater than the change fee, you can cancel your original nonrefundable (read the fine print to see how much is exempt) tickets, eat the fee and rebook to save minus $150 (was $100). Of course, check to see that your choice of flights is still available, I know one guy who did that just to try and save $10 and in the end, lost his direct flights to/from Boston. In the end, he spent an extra $30 on connecting flights through Denver outbound, Chicago inbound ... two United hubs with high risk of stranding due to weather. Luckily, he wasn't.

    At some point, AC and/or WJ will pick up on 100% nonrefundable, use em or lose em tickets that are starting to show up in the States. It's like Catbert is the management consultant that the US legacies use!
  69. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Gary Dare; I don't know what your relatives based their assessment that "their rates are as high as they would be for private coverage in Ontario in a similar area". I moved to Manitoba from Ontario and I can assure that is not true. Not only that, 75% of the insured in Manitoba have $200 deductible unlike the average $500 deductible elsewhere, and everyone in Manitoba is forced to purchase comprehensive insurance (included in that lower rate), so that 95% of repairs at bodyshops in Manitoba are paid by Autopac. In contrast in Ontario more than 50% of repairs are paid by private customers out-of-pocket, demonstrating a lower willingness to make an insurance claim and a lower level of comprehensive insurance coverage.

    On top of that, this will be the third year in a row that we will get a rebate cheque averaging 10% of our premiums (about $100), as the public utilities board has determined there is too much money in MPIC's coffers. When was the last time a private insurance company did that? They will be issued in May . . .
  70. some guy from somewhere from ottawa, Canada writes: Guy Tozer;

    All I was asking is did you let them know. Since you did, they had an obligation to tell you.

    Yes I am for real. I have been in this industry now for almost 20 years. Sorry to have bothered you for what I mistaken thought was an essential detail that was missing.
  71. Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: The country would be better off if Air Canada and the CBC were sold to anyone willing to take over payments on their debts.
  72. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: In an airline discussion from two weeks ago, someone in Vancouver asked me to confirm that service was better on United and American Airlines versus AC, "due to competition," and my answer was "No" based on personal experience and blogs like USA Today Travel and FlyerTalk ... here's a beef site that I have forgotten, mainly aimed at United Airlines:

    http://www.untied.com/
  73. Bub Slub from Calgary, Canada writes: Message to anti-Air Canada red necks, Air Canada was privatized years ago. Just like CN. Get over it. And please go away with some other airline. I like Air Canada and I use them all the time and find it just fine. Any all travel is a hassle with problems. Like the sign says, "...... no one is obligated to board an airplane ...."
  74. Dr Demento from Canada writes: Nassar Ben Houdja from Canada writes: "The country would be better off if Air Canada and the CBC were sold to anyone willing to take over payments on their debts."

    Where have you been in the 20 years since Air Canada was privatized?
  75. gloria garvey from Canada writes: I've wondered for years why I should have to pay for 'overweight' luggage. I weigh 130 lbs. The traveller in line behind me could weigh 250 lbs not including luggage, more than me and my 'overweight' luggage together. Every time I've booked a flight, I've been amazed at the range of fares for the same flight. I finally came to the conclusion that it's impossible to make sense of how airlines set fares. There is no other industry I can think of whose charges vary so much for no apparent reason. Just imagine what it would be like if other things you bought worked the same way. If you buy groceries on Tuesday at 9 am it costs $100, but if you buy them on Wednesday at 5 pm it costs $300. We wouldn't tolerate this nonsense anywhere else; why with airfares?
  76. vince T from Canada writes: To Mr Tozer and the others: It's amazing all the misinformation you get in newspapers comments. You all have to stop thinking you are all travel specialists ! First Mr. Tozer: Yes, bereavement fares exist BUT nowadays the Cheaper fares (Like Tango or Tango Plus on AC) are cheaper than the old Bereavement fares from yesteryears when you were getting a discount on the FULL fare ! And to all of you going to the states to catch a flight: You are killing the canadian airlines more than ever, the party in the states is over (they were killing themselves: Delta lost 3.6 Billion $$ in 3 months). flights are not cheap and you will pay sooner or later. Get ready !
  77. vince T from Canada writes: If all of you think you have the solution to all airline troubles please apply with them. They need genius fellas like you !
  78. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Guy Tozer writes, "They could have told me about it but decided to take the money instead." Don't ask, don't tell. It isn't just AC, they are all the same ... you must ASK for bereavement fares and often follow up with a copy of the death certificate.

    I had some American relatives who couldn't seem to afford to come up to Winnipeg for a grandmother's funeral ... only my aunt, her middle daughter, and uncle who were already going up during the US Thanksgiving break (on a three hop codeshare, first to Houston then to Minnesota then up to the Peg on a NW RJ). I first instructed my cousins to call CO (or NW?), ASK for a bereavement fare (repeat three times, all travel stories online are explicit about that!!), which would drop by maybe half against the price on the airline's web site (usually the best public prices). I also asked them to check United online, who had a Thanksgiving sale, and they found the best fare from El Paso, TX via DEN. Each leg was a RJ but it was only a single connection;
  79. vince T from Canada writes: Again, Mr Gary Dare you are NOt a fare specialist ! The bereavement fare was never ''maybe half the best fare on the website'' but it was a fraction of the full fare (because funeral are always last minute arrangements hence the full fare)...

    Again None of you really know what you are talking about when it comes to fares !
  80. vince T from Canada writes: But Mr Dare is correct about the copy of the death certificate. He is also correct about the fact that seat sales could be cheaper than bereavement fares...
  81. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Vince T writes, "Delta lost 3.6 Billion $$ in 3 months" Correction, Delta lost $6.3 Billion while Northwest lost $4.2 billion for a combined $10.5 billion.

    The rest lost from between $80 Million (CO) to $534 Million (UA).

    I differ from your advice to those who crossed (past tense) the border to take advantage of below profit, giveaway subsidized flights. They took advantage of a broken financial model, making it worse for the US carriers. The outcome may turn out to be the long-rumored buy of United by Lufthansa and AC, once Congress is faced with lifting foreign ownership restrictions or seeing UA go into history ... a sudden massive loss of flights that would sock a wobbly economy. Go back to the news on AA's week of MD-80 safety inspection disruptions in early April.

    (One colleague, who booked a lot of predictable flights for conferences and trade shows in advance at rock-bottom prices, bragged that United could have given him Premier status and $500 but not fly a mile with them, to save $1000 in a year that he likely lost them!)
  82. Joe shoppin in the U.S from Canada writes: Its all a scam from government to airports to airlines. The "security fee" is actually a tax that goes into general revenues and only a portion is returned to fund security at airports...(thank the liberals). The Fiberals then created NavCanada which is the Canadian air traffic control (paid and built by taxpayers) and then like the GTAA made it a non-profit entity that we pay for AGAIN in the form of NavCan surcharges-another tax. Add the PST, GST, fuel surcharges, Airport Improvement fees and VOILA your $200 ticket now costs $850. We are truly suckers to say the least.
  83. vince T from Canada writes: You are quite right Mr. Dare" I was citing the Delta losses by memory (or lapse of...) I only remembered that the numbers were phenomenal. Somehow you have to ask yourself: How could this be ? Or: What do people think it cost to run an airline ? Management and passenger alike are killing the airlines, little by little and everybody wants more !
  84. vince T from Canada writes: How much does it cost nowadays to drive a pick-up truck (say a $25,000. truck) from Toronto to Vancouver: Fuel, wear and tear, meals, maintenance....Compare to fly a multi million dollar machine: Fuel, wear and tear, maintenance, staff ??? Think about it ! You might spend several hundreds of dollars in fuel...Flying is not so bad after all !
  85. Gary Dare from Portland, Oregon, Canada, writes: Vince T writes, "Yes, bereavement fares exist BUT nowadays the Cheaper fares (Like Tango or Tango Plus on AC) are cheaper than the old Bereavement fares from yesteryears when you were getting a discount on the FULL fare !" Yes, to echo advice in the story about my cousins from West Texas. They were focussed on American and Continental since they are hubbed in DFW and IAH, respectively, and Southwest would have taken them as far as MSP and then a rental car. AA has no connections to Winnipeg, the full fare Economy Y ticket on CO was nearly a grand so asking for a bereavement fare would have been $500 a pop to fly with their folks. They didn't think of flying United out of El Paso at $350 a pop with their sale.
  86. Rocky Balboa from United States writes: When you fly across the border or over the ocean, you are going to be hit with two sets of fees and taxes, one from each country. Still ,a $250 tax and fee addition seems quite high for any North American flight. I just priced a round trip ticket from San Francisco to Toronto on AC for travel later in the summer and the total fees and taxes came to about $100. The fees are lower if I flew into Buffalo instead via Southwest. The overall saving using Buffalo is a little over $100. But the extra cost and time to complete my trip to Toronto make it impractical. A few months ago. a friend of mine from Toronto saved several hundred dollars by using Buffalo for a west coast flight. But as one poster noted, those days are over.

    When I was a youngster, the only people I knew who flew were rich people. We seem to be heading back in that direction, unfortunately.
  87. C J from Canada writes: Only in air travel that such blatantly misleading advert is allowed
  88. Dr Demento from Canada writes: For the record, when